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Hello, Jose77, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers:

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I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Where to ask a question, ask me on my talk page, or place {{helpme}} on your talk page and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions. Again, welcome!  Dr Debug (Talk) 04:44, 8 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

It already exists ([1]) deeptrivia (talk) 02:35, 23 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

No problem - il write one up shortly. An Siarach

Re: article request ceb-wp

Stub okay, please translate messages for doctrines. (Look up a Cebuano bible in the web and copy those passages.) Thanks. -- ceb:User:Bentong_Isles

Hi, I'm Willtron from Aragonese Biquipedia. I've finished the translation about Ilesia de Verdadera Chesús. Real name in Aragonese is Berdadera Ilesia de Chesús, because there's no 'V' in Aragonese and words are disordered, shouldn't be Ilesia de Berdadera Chesús (literally in English "Church of True (the church) Jesus", gender between name and adjetive don't match in this case), but Berdadera Ilesia de Chesús ("True Jesus Church"). You can see the article here. Regards --Willtron 16:05, 23 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Thankyou very very much Willtron for your help! Muchas Gracias! -- Jose77

I have a few questions before I do the translation: Who translated the name of the church into Māori - I ask because it is bad grammatically and because 'Hehu' is not the usual Māori spelling of 'Jesus'. The name at present means 'The Ecclesiastical Truth of Hehu'. Do you want it to mean 'the true church of Jesus' or 'the church of the true Jesus'? Which is closer? Kahuroa 07:13, 24 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Kahuroa 23:35, 24 February 2006 (UTC)the name you want is Te Hāhi Tika o Ihu literally 'the true church of Jesus' but also meaning 'True Jesus Church' Before I do the translation I will move the page to that title. Kahuroa 23:35, 24 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Article translated and renamed Hāhi Tika o Ihu. Kahuroa 11:13, 26 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Gidday, Jose! Thanks for inspiring our best Māori contributor to do some more translating. As Kahuroa says, the page is now mi:Hāhi Tika o Ihu. (It would be easier for those of us who check the list of recent edits if you logged in for every edit on "mi" - we can glance at your signature and recognise it and go on to the next one looking for newcomers or spammers.)
Kind regards - Robin Patterson 21:22, 26 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

How do I edit the Karaitiana box that is now in the article - it has some errors Kahuroa 23:24, 26 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

"The church also disagrees with the concept of trinity" - I will translate this literally, but it isn't going to sound very good... The idea of Trinity (or "Sillassé") is so strong in Ethiopia, that even the Pentays there don't try to deny this...! ፈቃደ (ውይይት) 14:36, 24 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Your help is gratefully appreciated! Thankyou so much! -- Jose77, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

Hi, I did the translation of the Introduction for you. Ask me for more help if you need. Cheers. -Ambuj Saxena (talk) 06:04, 26 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Re to question on Hindi wikipedia: Yes, that's the correct literal translation. deeptrivia (talk) 06:12, 26 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I can try translating, but the problem is that most of the references are biblical, hence no equivalent exists in Hindi. Morover, even for things that can be translated, a sound knowledge of Christian religion is necessary as otherwise any misunderstanding will be termed blasphemous and people will go after my head. The texts in holy books such as the Bible are not just words, but thoughts that require deep insight. As I am myself not an expert in Christianity (being a Hindu), I would rather not attempt translating such important things as beliefs of the religion. Try finding an Indian Christian. He/she would be able to help. I can surely help with something more straightforward, like the introduction of the same article that only contained facts, and not beliefs. One more thing...in its present form, with half the words in english, and the rest in Hindi, it sounds like an attempt of humour rather than the beliefs of a religion. If you don's find anyone fast, consider deleting the part after the introduction. It will do more harm than good. -Ambuj Saxena (talk) 08:34, 6 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I have translated the headings. BTW, you got me wrong about getting hurt. What I meant to say is that any christian reading that would feel hurt as it would sound like a joke rather than a serious article. -Ambuj Saxena (talk) 11:33, 6 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

You are welcome. Actually I am not yet finished with the article. I'll try to finish it this week :-) Meursault2004 10:44, 26 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Hi there, I've made you a stub at kw:Eglos Wir Yesu. (PS, what's up, Meursault; haven't seen you around in awhile!) Best of luck, QuartierLatin1968 04:11, 3 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Be happy, I have translated your article on HIndi wiki on True Jesus Church. Cygnus_hansa 17:59, 6 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Hey, I got your message on ang:, and I'm happy to work on the church page. Are you interested in Old English at all? --JamesR1701E 18:26, 10 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

• Replied

Ok...first thing is that nouns take cases: subject (nominative), owner (genitive), indirect object (dative), direct object (accusative). These also require endings: -, -es, -e, -...And "of the" meaning "the wagon of the king" would be "se wægn þæs cyninges" where þæs means of the. There's also "of" in the sense of "from," in which case it's written "of þǣm" and the noun after has an e added on. I don't want to take up all of your page with OE grammar (it could take that...), but check out the article on Old English, and do a search for OE grammar. There're plenty of resources on the web! --JamesR1701E 19:46, 10 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

• Replied

Thanks! Best thing for the article right now (since I'm about halfway done already), is the picture needs a little sprucing up. I can't seem to get the caption to work. If you could do that, that'd be great! --JamesR1701E 20:09, 10 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

• Replied

Hi Joseph, I put your request on the side for a while and may look into it a bit later.

2 reasons:

• the historical part of the article looks pretty poor to me. "Historical background & Origins" shold not be translated into any language but be removed. If the beginning of the pentecostal movement in China is not clear to the author, it should be said so; article claims Apostolic Faith origin but linked church seems never to have worked in China....

Context of "three self"-movement is not understood;

• for the time being I see more urgent topics in the very young swahili wiki than Chinese pentecostalism - especially an artivle which leaves a lot of questionsmarks with me. --Kipala 11:28, 11 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

• Replied--Joseph, 22:37, 11 March 2006

I apologize for the vague church history and would like to clarify your questions and doubts concerning the Historical background and origins of this church:

• Not long after the Azusa Street Revival in 1906, the Pentecostal Movement soon spread very quickly and missionaries evangelised to many different countries.

• By 1907, this news was preached to China and an Apostolic Faith Mission was established in Shanghai.

• The missionaries emphasised on the importance of receiving the Holy Spirit which is evidenced through Speaking in tongues.

• It was during this time when many Chinese christians believed and became their members (including Paul Wei and Ling-sheng Zhang whom later founded the True Jesus Church).

Why did Paul Wei and Ling-sheng Zhang decide to leave their original Pentecostal denominations and create an independent church? Here are the possible reasons:

• Between 1899 to 1901, the Boxer Rebellion broke out in China. It was an anti-western movement which aimed to exterminate all foreign influences in China. Christianity was seen by most people as a "Western religion" and therefore many churches were burnt down and christians were martyred.

• Due to this incident, the Western missionaries started encouraged Chinese Christians to be Self Sufficient economically, Self Preaching, and Self Pastoring; even if it meant breaking away from their original Protestant/Pentecostal denominations.

Another explanation was that:

The early founders of this church believed, through the revelation of the Holy Spirit, that they were establishing a reformed church which would correct the past mistakes in doctrines and interpretations made by other denominations. They believed that all the teachings of the gospel must have biblical references to back it up in order to avoid misinterpretations or false teachings.

Here are some facts:

• Today, this church has become globalised and now exists in forty five countries around six continents. Many of the new converts are non-Chinese.

• In fact, the True Jesus Church now exists in Tanzania, Uganda, Democratic Republic of the Congo, Kenya and seven other African countries. (Four of these countries use Swahili to some extent). The "Ten Basic Beliefs" of the church were actually translated into Swahili in the past few years.

Well, the history part still looks pretty shaky to me.

• Who of this Californian Apostolic Faith Movement went to China? The Apostolic Faith Church (the one which is linked in that article) themselves do not claim any missionaries at that stage as far as I could see from their webpages nor any to China at all (while they talk of other countries). These guys put on their church history website when they bought their first car -and they should not mention the huge step to China??? That one smells.
• The three-self-idea was already an old hat by the time of the boxer rebellion and definitively not caused by it. The idea was formulated by Henry Venn, General Secretary of the Anglican CMS in the middle of the 19th century.
• also other formulations are extremely vague; what is the meaning of "many Chinese christians believed"?? No figures around? Then better not try to create impressions - this is an encyclopedia and no handout for new believers.
• the whole thing about Christian traditions before "True Jesus Church" should not be there. The Church of the East (please not "Nestorians"!!) left impact for centuries, the Catholics have left much more impact (and martyrs) than the group described in the article - there surely is no need to touch on those matters. Why is it that Pentecostals often seem not to be very precise and keen on facts when mentioning other ways of faith?

Now this African connection makes it a candidate for sw.wiki. But again: why so few facts? Who started it when and how in Africa? Which are the "7 other African countries"? And how are they calling themselves in Swahili? --Kipala 14:10, 12 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

• Replied In answer to your question, the early founders of the True Jesus Church such as Ling-Sheng Zhang were once members of the Western Protestant and Pentecostal denominations which existed in China. Ling-Sheng Zhang joined the Apostolic Faith Mission in Shanghai. The Pastor of that church was Henderson. Ling-sheng then accepted the laying on of hands by Henderson. (Note: However Henderson's church later changed to the Church of God and later switched again to the Assembly of God). See also The Sabbath Movement in the True Jesus Church.

Also for your information, the other seven African countries in which the True Jeuss Church is now established are: Benin, Ghana, Liberia, Nigeria, South Africa, Sierra Leone and Togo. You can see A Chronology of the establishment of the True Jesus Church in various countries for more details.

-- Joseph, 09:20 Monday 13 March 2006 (UTC)

I have found your message when I loged in into Urdu Wikipedia. I have seen the Article you sent me. I will try to write short article about this pasge in Urdu, whenever I have time. Please let me know when you read this message, so that I can be sure that I have replied to a correct address. Goodluck