Thank you for posting a note to me. My practice is to move comments back to your page so the discussion is in one place. I will see your responses there. -J JMesserly

My issue was with using the word 'agenda'. I agree with 'Obama administration' becuase it matches the Category I found. Flatterworld (talk) 21:05, 28 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

(message moved to talk page for Sebastian 01:23, 5 December 2008 (UTC))[reply]

As a rule, every member of WP Enegy may assess any energy related article, so you are welcome to add assessment yourself. There is no problem to assess articles up to the level B. There are specific producers for GA and FA assessments and for A class assessment (quite rear in practice), the peer review and wider consensus are needed. Please see also Wikipedia:WikiProject Energy/Assessment. Beagel (talk) 18:36, 10 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

No problem. I figured it out after I checked out the Commons. Will reply over there, just been a busy day. --Skeezix1000 (talk) 21:06, 13 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the creation of René Thury - I haven't found any biographical information on him elsewhere (and I wasn't even sure if he was Swiss or French!). I've also added him to the List of electrical engineers. I don't doubt that the railfans would want to know more about his work with electric traction, too. --Wtshymanski (talk) 19:18, 22 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, I see you were working on something on Mike Serfas's talk page--I didn't see it until after, when someone pointed it out. Someone on the main Obama talk suggested a Project, so I struck while the iron was hot: Wikipedia:WikiProject Barack Obama. Want to merge up? The principle goal I was seeing was to basically drive everything there to a minimum of Good Article, and then work from there once a Good Topic was in hand, for a Featured Topic drive over the months/years. But of course, there could be other sub things too! :) rootology (C)(T) 20:40, 23 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Comment from user Zodon (talk) 19:49, 30 January 2009 (UTC) moved to User talk:Zodon#comment_on_content[reply]

Welcome, and thank you for experimenting with Wikipedia. Your test on the page Template:Start-date worked, and it has been reverted or removed. Please take a look at the welcome page to learn more about contributing to this encyclopedia. If you would like to experiment further, please use the sandbox instead. Thank you. SamB135 (talk) 07:37, 5 February 2009 (UTC) If I appear to be wrong about this or you wish to comment on this warning, please leave me a message.[reply]

Oh sorry -- I was using an anti-vandalism tool and one of your edit's came up and it appeared to be vandalism from my perspective. Sorry about that! --SamB135 (talk) 07:47, 5 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

It's always good to see editors interested in furthering the use of microformats on Wikipedia; and you clearly have some useful ideas to contribute; and time to work on them. Unfortunately, a number of your recent edits have corrupted articles, or emitted bad metadata (wrong dates, etc.) and have had to be reverted. Please conduct your testing in sandbox pages, and please discuss your work and collaborate with other interested editors, and propose incremental changes to existing templates, instead of creating duplicates. I have been working on adding microformats to Wikipedia since 2007, and have done so on hundreds of templates and thus many thousands of articles. I'm happy to offer assistance and advice. Thank you. Andy Mabbett (User:Pigsonthewing); Andy's talk; Andy's edits 22:10, 6 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I appreciate you observations. However, it is more productive if you post bug lists to the Template that you are concerned about. Whether or not you are correct about the Augustus article, perhaps there is no harm if there is no visible damage to the users to simply inform me of what you view is an error on the template that you are concerned about. I do fix things, and do so promptly. Thank you. -J JMesserly (talk) 23:05, 6 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Emitting bad metadata is harmful; moreso than emitting no metadata. Otherwise, why do we bother? The Augustus article was broken; there is no doubt. Andy Mabbett (User:Pigsonthewing); Andy's talk; Andy's edits 23:14, 6 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

If you can explain the bug on the template page, and cite references to prove that it is in fact a bug and not a particular way of emitting microformats, I'll take a look at it. You may have noticed that the {{start-date}} template now not only handles natural language dates, but correctly does the end date calculation. Something that the old template will never be able to do. Progress is being made, and it is exciting to collaborate with you. -J JMesserly (talk) 23:22, 6 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Please do not suggest that I am required to provide proof and references of proof of bugs in your templates; that is not the case. Prove that they work and gain consensus to deploy them. And please do not again move this discussion to my talk page; it was started and can continue here. Andy Mabbett (User:Pigsonthewing); Andy's talk; Andy's edits 23:30, 6 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Well if you can't identify whatever it is you think is wrong, then I can't fix it. -J JMesserly (talk) 23:31, 6 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I can, and did so on each of my edit sumamries. Andy Mabbett (User:Pigsonthewing); Andy's talk; Andy's edits 23:33, 6 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Andy, please understand the context. Here is the code that recognizes natural language dates and correctly adjusts for dtend. Perhaps if I can take the trouble of coding this up for the wikipedia community, you can spend a little bit more time than simply stating: emits bogus metadata. Thanks.

Start-date:

{{#iferror:<span style="display:none">{{#time: Y|{{{1|0009-11}}}}}</span>|Not recognized as a date.  Years must have 4 digits 
(use leading zeros for years < 1000).|{{#iferror:{{Date-mf|{{{1|}}}|{{{2|}}}
   |up-date={{#ifeq:"{{{1|0009-11}}}"|"{{Four digit|{{#expr:{{{1|0009-11}}}}}}}"|<!--Here if Test1 satisfied: see talk -->
{{#time:Y|{{#expr:{{{1|0009-11}}}+3000}}}}//{{#if:{{{BCE|{{{BC|}}}}}}|-1 year, |+1 year, }}
|{{#iferror:{{#ifexpr:((abs({{{1|0009-11}}}))< 1900) and  ({{#time:Y|{{{1|0009-11}}}}} >1900)  
| {{#ifexpr:({{#time:Y|{{{1|0009-11}}}}}) <2000|{{#expr:{{#time:Y|{{{1|0009-11}}}}}+1100}}
|{{#expr:{{#time:Y|{{{1|0009-11}}}}}+1000}} }} |{{#expr:{{#time:Y|{{{1|0009-11}}}}}+3000}}}}
|{{#expr:{{#time:Y|{{{1|0009-11}}}}}+3000}}}}<!--done with year -->
{{#ifeq:{{#time:d H:i:s|{{{1|0009-11}}} }}|{{#iferror:{{#ifexpr:{{{1|0009-11}}}|{{#time:d}}}}|01}} 00:00:00
|{{#time:-m|{{{1|0009-11}}}}}/-m/+1 month, |{{#ifeq:{{#time:H:i:s|{{{1|0009-11}}}}}|00:00:00
|{{#time:-m-d|{{{1|0009-11}}}}}/-m-d/+1 day, |{{#ifeq:{{#time:i:s|{{{1|0009-11}}}}}|00:00|{{#time:-m-d H:00
|{{{1|0009-11}}}}}/-m-d TH/+1 hour, |{{#ifeq:{{#time:s|{{{1|0009-11}}}}}|00|{{#time:-m-d H:i
|{{{1|0009-11}}}}}/-m-d TH:i/+1 minute, |{{#time:-m-d H:i:s|{{{1|0009-11}}}}}/-m-d TH:i:s/+1 second, }}}}}}}}}}
   |BCE={{{BCE|{{{BC|}}}}}}
   |ISO8601={{{ISO8601|}}}
   |class-extra={{{class-extra|}}}<!-- random extra classes to add eg:bday updated -->
   |class=dtstart
   |test={{{test|}}}
}}|Did not recognize date.  Try slightly modifying the date in the first parameter.}}}}<noinclude>
{{documentation|Template:Start-date/doc}} 
[[Category:Templates generating hCalendars]]</noinclude>

I am working out some tough problems so we can have good microformat support on the wikipedias. All I ask is for you to take a little time to describe what you think is wrong, and show that what is happening now is widely regarded as incorrect according to recognized authorities. How does that sound?-J JMesserly (talk) 03:02, 7 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I already understand the context. I have already described what is wrong (as you know, having responded in other places where I have done so). Andy Mabbett (User:Pigsonthewing); Andy's talk; Andy's edits 12:10, 7 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Death dates

Please desist from adding hCalendar/ death dates to biographical infoboxes, until consensus establishes whether that should be done (and until the mediation you have initiated kicks in). Lives are not single events, but a series of events, starting with birth event and ending with a separate death event. This has already been explained to you, and you have already refereed elsewhere to the debate where the harm of your preferred model is explained. If you wish to debate this issue, I suggest using the existing discussion of the matter on the microformat project talk page, in which you are already participating. Thank you. Andy Mabbett (User:Pigsonthewing); Andy's talk; Andy's edits 19:02, 9 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Andy, you have demonstrated no harm. We are at an impasse. If you agree to binding mediation, we can settle this class of objection you continually raise. I shall continue until you show that some perceptible harm is caused. If you persist in reverting, then there is no choice but to take it to escalate this to arbcom. Mediation I think is a better way of going about this, don't you agree? -J JMesserly (talk) 20:38, 9 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Andy, I understand that you disagree with me, but it is pointless to make mass reverts of infobox changes have no visible harm based on unfounded assertions. [1], [2], [3] [4]. To date, you have refused to show that there is any perceptible harm for wikipedia users to using a technique of encoding that other sites use for encoding death date (discussion), nor have you provided any citation that the encoding that I have introduced is prohibited. If what you say is true about death dates and one day we will have death date in an hcard- that's great. We can do things that way then, and I'll even write the bot scripts/ template changes myself. I really don't care which encoding is used. What I don't understand is why it is necessary to remove wikipedia functionality due to your esoteric stands on which way is the most theoretically correct way of encoding things. What matters is what is practical. It makes no sense to me that users aren't able to click google or yahoo maps due to these sorts of objections to microcoding correctness. Let's submit our respective POVs to a mediator. I am eager to do so with the understanding that both of us agree in advance to be bound by its outcome. How does that sound? -J JMesserly (talk) 21:06, 9 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I refer you to the above comments. Andy Mabbett (User:Pigsonthewing); Andy's talk; Andy's edits 22:02, 9 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Your response is not intelligible to me. You refer me to which comment in response to which proposition I made or question I asked of you? I am unaware of any instance of you concretely showing what harm a user perceives. As a counterpoint, I have repeatedly shown how anyone can verify that your edits are in fact removing functionality. It is a form of vandalism you are committing, and you are doing it on the basis on uncited, unsupported assertions that this encoding is somehow illegal. Put yourself in my shoes. Would you believe someone just because they said something was so but was unwilling to back it up? No. So why do you expect any different from me? Please agree to binding mediation and let's settle this. Think about it. What's the worst case? A vevent is on some infoboxes for a year but after the year they come off and the templates encode the death date as dday instead of dtend? Why must this be escalated over something that worst case has zero long term impact? Why not just have a live and let live policy until there are firm statements from standards bodies that either one encoding or the other is deprecated? -J JMesserly (talk) 22:07, 9 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

You have been told on Commons that false accusations of vandalism are unacceptable (and had to apologise to me for making them). That is no less true here. Andy Mabbett (User:Pigsonthewing); Andy's talk; Andy's edits 22:21, 9 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

It is a matter of interpretation of course. Do you agree to binding mediation on the matter of how we settle microformats disputes? I would like to have this be a model for disputes over other future emerging formats, because as we both understand this is just the beginning. There are many more proposed microformats being discussed, and many folks will feel strongly on both sides of these sorts of arguments. Really- I don't care either way. If we had your dday thing today and Operator recognized it, my template would be emitting that. Pure practicality wins the day from my POV. -J JMesserly (talk) 22:37, 9 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

No, it is not "a matter of interpretation". False accusations of vandalism, such as those you have been making are not acceptable. They are strictly against policy. Desist. Andy Mabbett (User:Pigsonthewing); Andy's talk; Andy's edits 22:45, 9 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, I see that you've made some recent edits to Template:Infobox_Skyscraper. If you could please take a look at Weston_Centre_(San_Antonio), where the article creator is trying to include the location parameter but it doesn't seem to be working. I've taken a look but haven't been able to figure it out. Thanks! shirulashem (talk) 01:43, 9 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

done- note on Shirulashem's page. -J JMesserly (talk) 04:14, 9 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I find it rude to edit other people's comments, but:

• the color you use for examples looks too much like a visited link;
• there is a typo in the last example (unless the year numberings in the Julian and the Gregorian calendar differ by 20 years).
• Maybe it'd make sense to replace "HST" with "HST", for people who don't know what "HST" stands for?
• Why specify midnight as the time in microformats when no time of day is specified in the template? E.g. the first example could use a microformat of 1941-12-07 rather than 1941-12-07T00:00Z. Also, for the second example wouldn't it make more sense to use 1941-12-07T17:43−10 as a microformat?

--A. di M. (talk) 10:35, 9 February 2009 (UTC)1941-12-07[reply]