THC Science

See User talk:Durin/archive for all prior discussion from this page.

Google User box template discussion

Durin - this matter has died down in February but doesn't seem to be resolved. Could you weight in please. Doesn't the typing in the

Template: user Google

being discussed at

Template talk:User Google

resemble and infringe upon

Image:Google logo transparent.png??Michael Dorosh 14:28, 12 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry Durin

I will revert what ever I see fit. --Cloveious 18:10, 28 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Seeking adminship

I'm preparing for adminship. You appear to be the resident expert on admin qualifications, and since you don't like picking "low hanging fruit", I believe that makes you the right one to see. I would be very grateful if you would consider me as a candidate for adminship. I was the subject of an RfC last spring (for overzealousness), I've had my fair share of run-ins with other editors (but nothing major since the RfC), and it has been pointed out that my use of multiple accounts might be a point of contention when I attempt an RfA. My major contributions are presented on my userpage, and highlights include stirring the Main Page redesign to action last winter, ditto the Help page overhaul early this year, the Wikipedia:Community Portal overhaul early last spring, and I resurrected the Wikipedia:Tip of the day project.

Amongst the pages I have created are the Community bulletin board and the Wikipedia:Department directory, though I can't take full credit for those either (virtually nothing on Wikipedia was created in a vacuum: the CBB for instance was inspired by an idea of Renata, through whose talk page I learned of you). If you need to speak to someone concerning my performance on Wikipedia, User:Quiddity may be a good one to talk to, being the person who filed the RfC, and whom I'm now working closely with on the contents pages of Wikipedia (or maybe it's the other way around, it's hard to tell). Renata is also famiiar with me, from a brighter angle, I hope. I look forward to your reply. Sincerely, The Transhumanist 05:42, 29 October 2006 (UTC) [reply]

My standards state that I do not nominate people who have had a legitimate RfC filed against them. I realize it happened last Spring, but I am not comfortable with the fact that you did not participate in the RfC. I would recommend that you constrain yourself to one account, rather than using sandbox accounts. You can do everything with one account. There's no policy stating that you must have only one account, but evaluating you when you have 13 other accounts is a very difficult task. This is not to say that I have evaluated you as a bad editor or anything like; just that these standards are important to me to maintain for a number of reasons. You may wish to request assistance at Wikipedia:Esperanza/Admin coaching. --Durin 20:14, 31 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- I appreciate your analysis, and agree that mine is a tougher case than usual. That is why I've come to you: because if anyone can sort out the essence of a situation (or an editor) on Wikipedia, it is you. As for the RfC, perhaps I should offer an explanation... Well, like you, I wasn't comfortable with the RfC either, specifically with the prospect of arguing with 5 people at the same time. It would have been a further escalation of a confrontation (everyone seemed hot under the collar, especially me). Continuing a fight is not a good way to cool off. Walking away saved them and me a lot of time and effort that was better spent on the encyclopedia. It turned out better that way, because had I participated, I would have been compelled to defend my position (and an untenable one at that). Stepping back allowed me to reflect on the scenario, the situation, and the nature of the wiki without putting myself and everyone else through an even bigger ordeal. I came away with an appreciation for how consensus works here, and how direct competition (such as between drafts and between editors) does not. It also taught me the fine line between clashing and getting along in this very strange but interesting development environment and community. And once I "got it", I liked it even more! Note that I continue to edit as boldly as ever, but this time around with the grain, rather than against it. Clashing wastes human resources. Synergy is a much better solution. I hope you will reconsider my request. My contributions can be found at User talk:The Transhumanist/Archive menu, and they clearly show my love and concern for Wikipedia: the encyclopedia and community both. I enjoy helping to build this knowledge resource for the world, and I offer to help even more. Sincerely, The Transhumanist
  23:29, 31 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  I respectfully decline to conduct a further review of you for adminship. As noted above, please do not take this as any negative assertion regarding you. I recommend you:
  Restrict yourself to one account and one account only, having an admin shut the others down by indefinite block. I'd be happy to do this for you on positive confirmation on each talk page that you are the owner. No, this is not policy; you can have multiple accounts but many people frown upon it and it will ultimately hurt your chances in a future RfA.
  
  Request a review of yourself for adminship at Wikipedia:Esperanza/Admin coaching. It will take a while to get someone tasked with reviewing you, but it will help.
  
  Be patient. I'd go at least a few months using just the one account, and waiting until after the first of the year will allow you to say "the RfC was early last year".
  
  Consider that not responding on an RfC is considerably worse than admitting you were in error and accepting the opposite position as be in the right. Getting closure to a matter can be better achieved in such a manner than simply not responding. It might be in your interest to now respond to the people who contributed significantly to that RfC and indicate some of what you said above.
  
  Just some advice. I hope it helps. All the best, --Durin 13:20, 1 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Get off your high horse

It's people like you who will destory wikipedia, you can try and bully me and ban me if you want but you need to get your head out of your ass. Your campaign of threatning other users and acting big is a waste of time, there is nothing wrong with political party logos' in articles about political parties and elections. Trust me when I say politcal parties in Canada know full well what goes on wikipedia. But that kinda common sense stuff just fly right over your head. Which is really what I would exepect from someone who, doesn't seem smart enough to contribute any usefull content, but just makes other contributors who actually do contribute miserable. --Cloveious 00:48, 30 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Having a thread of my own here, I couldn't help notice yours. Maybe these guideline pages will help: see Wikipedia:Logos and Wikipedia:Fair use. Good luck. The Transhumanist 02:14, 30 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

(To User:Cloveious) I am disappointed you have chosen the path you have. You've raised a few points (outside of the personal attacks, for which you've been warned by Elonka below) that I'd like to address.
I have not threatened you. I am sorry that you feel that way, but nothing in what I have done has in any way been intended to threaten you. That you feel you're going to become a martyr because you're being blocked is to say the least very disheartening. Nevertheless, I am applying the block that you were warned would happen if you willfully violated the policy again, which you have. The fault here is not with myself or the other admin that warned you, but with you for failure to understand that our policies must be adhered to despite you being warned to that effect by the other admin.
Whether or not the political parties are well aware of what happens on Wikipedia is irrelevant. If they have specifically released their logo images under a free license, then there would be no issue with the use of the logos as you would like. However, to date you've not provided any evidence that they have. Whether or not they are content with abuses of their copyrights has no bearing on the usage of their logos here. We do not make exceptions except in extremely rare cases (the only ones I know of have had to do with the main page, and temporary at that). This is because creating an environment where fair use images can exist because of various exceptions, clauses, pseudo-oks from organizations, and what not creates a nightmare management situation for Wikipedia. Instead, the policy is written to be clear; decorative use of fair use images is not allowed. It's easy to understand, easy to follow, easy to enforce and (usually) easy to convey to people who (usually temporarily) disagree with the policy. If instead we structured this as you would have it be so, there would be no reasonable way in which we could possibly manage the use of fair use images on Wikipedia.
Please understand; Wikipedia receives e-mail and phone calls every single day regarding copyright violations and fair use abuse. We can not assume that "x" organization is ok with a given fair use abuse just because we think it very unlikely they would ever sue. We will eventually be wrong, and trust me; Wikipedia has already received many threats of legal action. We have to draw a line somewhere. For the use of fair use images in decorative ways, we draw the line at saying it's not allowed. Period.
Failure to adhere to copyright law and fair use law directly threatens the very existence of Wikipedia. We must take a stance against such abuses in order to protect ourselves against this threat. I am sorry you disagree, but your disagreement does not change the facts; we must adhere to copyright law and we must have a policy that is easy to manage.
Fair use policing is one small subset of all that I do. I contribute in many other arenas in a variety of different ways. A sampling of this can be seen at User:Durin/Contributions. Therefore, your accusation that I am not "smart enough to contribute any usefull content" is not just a personal attack, but also false. I encourage you to carefully reconsider making any personal attacks in the future, whether they have basis in fact or (as in this case) no such basis. Such behavior will lead to increasingly long blocks of your editing privileges.
The choice here is very clearly yours; you can continue to violate Wikipedia policy by inserting fair use images against policy and/or conducting personal attacks and suffer increasingly long blocks. Or, as I hope you will do, you can choose to not make such errors and continue contributing has you have done in so many ways here...minus the personal attacks and fair use abuse.
I'd be quite happy to discuss this matter in greater depth if you like, to help clarify any remaining points that remain unclear. Being a martyr doesn't help you, me, or the project. Agreeing to abide by our policies isn't admitting defeat, or any other similar notion. Let's work together...not apart.
As noted above, with your willful violations of policy [1][2] I am temporarily blocking your editing privileges. While the block lasts, you may continue to edit here on your talk page but no other pages. The block I am applying is for 24 hours. starting now. --Durin 05:01, 30 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

WP:RFA

I think you misunderstood my change. Currently, I believe, correct me if I'm wrong, that only fully-completed nominations can be listed. Therefore, it is highly unlikely that a nominator would list a nomination for the nominee. My change was only meant to reflect that nominees should be the ones listing their own RFAs after they've answered the standard questions and accepted the nom, as is current practice, and not the nominators. – Ch acor 14:03, 30 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Nominators can and do list other people's nominations. It's not all that unusual. Reason; some nominees are not denizens of RfA and do not know how to list the RfA properly. They'd rather have someone who knows what they are doing at RfA do it for them. --Durin 14:06, 30 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

As an aside, Durin, I'm sure you know just as well as I do that rollback is not for good faith edits. – Ch acor 14:23, 30 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Given that I left a note on your talk page, and also started a discussion on the point at WT:RFA, I think this is a non-issue in this case. Observe the second sentence in the second bullet point of Wikipedia:Rollback#Dont.27s where it says "In other words, try to consider the editor 'on the other end.'" I did. :) --Durin 14:46, 30 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Itsmymarket.com

Hi, I'm fairly new here, so I'm probably missing something, but did you delete Itsmymarket.com? The article is there, and the history of the page doesn't have you on it, but it seems like the article has been deleted. By you. Itsmymarket.com seems to fail the speedy deletion "web" criterion. Thanks. Overcamp 16:53, 31 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I deleted it under WP:CSD#General_criteria #11. It may have been premature under G11, but not under A7. The creator re-created it, fleshing it out some more. I left a note the creator regarding the issue and asked him to defend the notability of the website (see [3]). Don't worry about being new and raising an issue; all of us are equals. --Durin 16:57, 31 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Reading this I can't really justify it - there is a lot of media conversation in Cornwall (an Alexa ranking for a site which is still in one small area of South West England seems good to me?) but it is almost entirely non-web based. That is part of the nature of Cornwall.

I'm not a wikipedia person on the whole, but this site is something which a lot of people have been talking about down here and people are interested in it. I didn't realise that there were specific levels of interest before a subject was considered important enough for inclusion.

Got any advice? (You were pretty quick off the mark, mind - I hadn't even finished the info box when you deleted it).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Notability_%28web%29 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lord Manley (talk • contribs) 17:02, 31 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry if it seemed to quick for you. We receive a great many articles per day which are routinely deleted. Have a look at the deletion log. We've deleted more than 2500 pages today already. One of the problems we have is spam, with a number of companies trying very hard to get their name onto Wikipedia as Wikipedia is a very high profile site and having your name there is free advertising. We have to fight against that. That's party of the reason for the notability standards. Advice? Wait. If itsmymarket.com becomes notable enough to warrant an article, someone will eventually write one. We already have near 1.5 million articles. Believe in m:eventualism. Another admin has gone ahead and deleted the article. --Durin 19:52, 31 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Quebec Autoroutes

Who owns the copyright to the Quebec Autoroute Shields? i thought a wikipedia member made them. RaccoonFox • Talk • Stalk 19:00, 2 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

If I make an image that is precisely or very, very nearly akin to the Coca-Cola logo I do not gain full rights to the image. What has happened is the user has created them, but they are very nearly akin to the actual Quebec Autoroute shields. As a result, that user does not have full rights to release them into the public domain. I have contacted Transports Québec regarding the issue, and they have initially responded but have not yet responded in full. You can see the content of those communications at http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Durin-en/Text_to_Government_Qu%C3%A9bec. --Durin 20:49, 2 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you! i understand now. :) RaccoonFox • Talk • Stalk 21:34, 2 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

You're quite welcome! --Durin 21:36, 2 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Percy Norton talk

I can't seem to post on the Percy Nobby Norton talk page, must be a glitch. Anyhow, I scanned this article about Percy Nobby Norton from the State paper just yesterday. Sorry about the low quality. See it at [4]. --Bpazolli 17:03, 3 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

It's so poor resolution that all that can be made out is the headline. Nothing can be derived from this except that somebody named Percy got $500k. --Durin 20:11, 3 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

about the picture in the Destiny's Child article=

this image has no copyright it is not from any performances, video clips, music photoart or promotional pic (like single or album cover), candids, magazine photoshoot
it is from an public domain, shot by an fan during Beyonce's birthday party
the site is an fan-based site, it is not trustful at all, it is just source,
the way that is showed there resembles like they are the owner of this picture, what does not happen in fact

→Eduemoni 23:06, 3 November 2006 (UTC)←[reply]

++add

here you can find the copyrighted pics of this party, shot by the media press
http://www.beyoncephotos.net/thumbnails.php?album=421 →Eduemoni 23:19, 3 November 2006 (UTC)←[reply]

Then please identify the exact source of this image rather than just specifying a large website. There's no ready way to positively verify the copyright status of the image without this. --Durin 03:21, 4 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

iTunes

I'm rather confused as to why Image:iTunes.png was deleted. A similar image, Image:ITunes-700-icon.png is the exact replica of the image with different colours. Image:iTunes.png was the former Apple iTunes logo. You say it falls under the fair use policy but from what I've read it's legal.

"There are a few categories of copyrighted images where use on Wikipedia has been generally approved as likely being fair use when done in good faith in Wikipedia articles involving critical commentary and analysis. Such general approval must be seen in the light of whether a free image could replace the copyright image instead.

Team and corporate logos. For identification. See Wikipedia:Logos."

If Image:ITunes-700-icon.png is legal for those reasons, wouldn't Image:iTunes.png have been legal also? Furthermore its use in userboxes stated under Wikipedia's logo policy would satisfy:

Generally, logos should be used only when the logo is reasonably familiar (or when the logo itself is of interest for design or artistic reasons). - it is

Logos should not generally be used in contexts which are, taken as a whole, strongly negative. In an article about what the logo rerepresents (the company or whatever) or an article discussing the visual style of the creator of the logo or its history and evolution are fine. Within the article, the real logo should generally be used near the introductory paragraph, adjacent to text which is simply descriptive and which presents a clearly neutral point of view. People tend to recognize logos quickly, so a placement at the start helps the logo to do its job and confirm that people have arrived at the right article. This does not mean that we should censor the article - only that we place the logo near neutral text, not in the middle of long negative pasages. - it's not

Defaced logos or logo parodies should be used with care and not given undue prominence. For example, parodies of logos may be carefully used under fair use in an article about a parody site or campaign. - it's not

When uploading a logo, whether current or historical, include the {{logo}} template message in the image description - pretty sure it was, and could have been chagned

Reasonable diligence should be taken to ensure that the logo is accurate and has a high-quality appearance. Common sense says that a logo displayed prominently on the logo owner's own website should be OK to use, because it represents their wishes about how the logo is presented on computer screens at typical screen resolutions. Avoid resizing a logo—try to find one that is a suitable size. Do not use a resized logo if it doesn't look good. Overly high-resolution versions of logos should be avoided, however, as they are less likely to be fair use. - it was

Where possible, logos should be uploaded in PNG format. JPEG format should not be used as it is lossy and results in a less professional appearance. - it was

Usually, the current logo should be the logo presented. When a historical logo is used, the caption should indicate this. - Image:iTunes.png was the historical logo to Image:ITunes-700-icon.png.

The list goes on and the logo satisfies all of them. For all the reasons Image:ITunes-700-icon.png was kept I don't see why Image:iTunes.png was deleted. Thanks for your time. Mkdw ^talk 20:24, 4 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I was not aware the deleted image was an out of date logo for the operation. I deleted it on the grounds that it was a lower quality replica of the undeleted image, under WP:CSD#Images.2FMedia criteria #1. If you intend on using the historical logo in the article on ITunes, then feel free to re-upload it and use it on that article. As for removing them from userboxes, the use of fair use images in userboxes is strictly prohibited. Please see Wikipedia:Fair use criteria item #9. Fair use images are not to be used outside of the main article namespace. This includes userboxes, other templates, or userpages. If you have any questions about this, please feel free to ask. Also, note that you do not have to do "<nowiki>[[Image:Itunes.png]]</nowiki>. If instead you use "[[:Image:Itunes.png]]" it provides a link to the image without transcluding the image. Thanks, --Durin 20:34, 4 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the image link tip. I'll be sure to remember it in the future. I see about #9 in fair use criteria. I am looking for a way to create a an iTunes userbox. Other program userboxes such as Google, Gmail, Mozilla Firefox, and Adobe have used screen shots, cleverly used multicoloured text etc. I am not very familiar with the free use policy. Would I be able to use in my userbox:

a self taken screen shot of the program?
screen shot of the iTunes program header?
create multicoloured text using the iTunes colour palette?
take a screen shot of my playlist?
create an image that has "iTunes" in it?

Thanks for your time.

Mkdw ^talk 20:42, 4 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Responding as re-numbered: 1) No. 2) No. 3) Maybe. 4) No. 5) Maybe. With 3 and 5, it is possible to recreate logos of some companies, such as Google, with colored text. This is no less infringing on a company's rights than an image that does the exact same thing. Thus, if your creation is close to the actual iTunes log, you're infringing on their rights. --Durin 20:48, 4 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Norton

No, look. I'm the one who deleted the "Nobby Norton" mess in the first place. Trust me. This is... this is an entirely new article. I was as stunned as anyone to see that there was a legitimate article buried in all that crap.

It has actual verifiable reliable sources.

I have no idea why Enknowed was creating garbage as recently as two days ago when he could have created a genuine version.

I don't want to do a Wheel War or anything, so I'm not going to be the one to recreate it. But go look at the content. DS 14:17, 5 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I read the content before when I removed a fair use image off the article prior to its move to mainspace. I am still unconvinced. There definitely was a hoax article initially, and it was properly deleted. Subsequent attempts have been speaking almost interchangeable of a garageband of the name and of this early 20th century person. I am very certain the garage band does not meet our notability criteria. As for the person, I am skeptical. My position can certainly change on this, but what I see is a person who shared authorship with Tranter on a couple of <10 page articles in a magazine of uncertain distribution and popularity. Further, Norton didn't actually write the song. He picked it up from others; he was just passing it on ([5], search 'Norton'). The last two cites in the article I deleted do not even mention Norton. Did this person exist? Sure. No question. Is he notable enough for inclusion? I'm hard pressed to believe that.
If we are going to include this biography, then there should be a unification effort of the different salted pages. Before that, I think there should be another attempt at deletion review with a much better written and sourced article than we currently have available to us in deleted histories. As is, with so much vandalism and incivility by the proponents of this person, it's unlikely to pass another attempt at deletion review. What do you think? --Durin 14:41, 5 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
PS: I'm voting you for ArbCom! ;)

Arbcom

You do realize that if I'm elected to ArbCom, my first act will be to indefinitely block everyone who voted for me, right? DS 14:55, 5 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

:) Yes, I was there on the channel :) That's why I said the above :) --Durin 14:58, 5 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Trump Empire

My apologies for reversing your edit. I had thought I had saved a wrong version or something until I noticed the picture disappear a second time. I suppose that putting Image:Nbc apprentice2 key art.jpeg in Template:The Apprentice would be equally as wrong. TonyTheTiger 20:55, 5 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

No worries. Yes, that image is a fair use image too so it can not be used on that template. --Durin 13:59, 6 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Unblock requested

By User talk:195.112.56.122. Just thought you ought to know - not that I would unblock these vandals. Ian Cairns 09:54, 6 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the heads up. I responded on the IP's talk page. --Durin 13:59, 6 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks

Thanks for correcting (by deleting) my 'unfair' (;-)) use of fair use images. I was going on the incorrect assumption that if I found it on Wikipedia .... I shall try to be guided by the info on the image page in the future. That information appears to have been clear enough in the case of the images you deleted from my userpage today. Whatever I think of the copyright law, I do respect and support Wikipedia's stated reasons for staying well within it. And I do consider your attention a valuable service. I wouldn't like to see Wikipedia added to my picture list of martyrs. Please do revisit my page to make sure my other and future edits are within policy. (Especially since I have no intention of studying copyright law or reading all the rules and regulations before I edit. Were I to be willing to do that, I'm sure I could find more remunerative activities than editing here. :-) ) O'RyanW (☺ ₪) 23:55, 6 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Ha! Indeed :) You're welcome, and thanks for the nice response! Too often I get vitriolic responses instead. --Durin 00:08, 7 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Thanks also for the clear edit summary pointing to clear explanations of the problem and policy. In the past I have had some of my new categories iced by bots without any explanation. That was bummer and quite irritating. Your edit summary was most welcome. Thanks. O'RyanW (☺ ₪) 04:33, 7 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Quality Increase

I have increased the quality of the article of Percy Nobby Norton see the page I posted below. Sorry. --Smallcucumber 13:37, 7 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

User:Smallcucumber has made two contributions and you posted no link or made edits to any Norton article in those two edits. Perhaps you meant a sockpuppet of yours? --Durin 16:55, 7 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

This is probably a sockpuppet of Bpazolli and the link is [6]. Kavadi carrier 16:08, 8 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- I surmised as much. The article reads as a spoof. Hardly evidence of notability. --Durin 16:19, 8 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

WTC7

Why cannot people see the collapse videos of WTC 7? Whats soo wrong with that? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.37.200.90 (talk • contribs) 00:39, 8 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

As noted on your talk page, there was a lengthy discussion about the subject on the article's talk page. The decision was not to allow the videos, or any other material, from wtc7.net to be linked. --Durin 02:47, 8 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- So you will not have a problem with the videos of links directly linked from somewhere else according to your previous statement would you? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.81.210.78 (talk • contribs) 04:00, 8 November 2006(UTC)
  - I strongly suggest you read the talk page of the article and its archives to gain an understanding of the underlying issues surrounding what you propose. The same videos simply hosted on another site are going to result in the same removal. --Durin 05:10, 8 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    - So you would remove any WTC7 collapse video from any source including a news source correct? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.37.200.90 (talk • contribs) 13:05, 8 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
      - First, please sign your comments. You can do so by typing ~~~~ on the end of your comments or alternatively clicking the signature button near the middle of the buttons above the editing window.
      - Second, I did not indicate that any video is not acceptable. I said the same videos hosted on another site have the same problematic nature. I again strongly encourage you to read the talk page and archives of it of the article. --Durin 15:23, 8 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Starblind

Just your best friend Starblind here. I think maybe we should unblock Percy Nobby Norton. I would do it now but I have to go. Why don't you help me out and unblock it for me. Thanks. User:..S.t.a.r.b.l.i.n.d.. - Starblind 00:11, 3 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

No, for reasons you are already aware of. --Durin 15:23, 8 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

RE:Cleaned up Image:Marine 69-71.jpg

Thank you Durin for cleaning up my image. It's a good a good thing that I'm not a politician, those guys images are impossible to clean up (smile). I see you've been very busy lately with the images. Good job. Tony the Marine 15:09, 9 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

You're welcome :) --Durin 15:27, 9 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

slave driver

Anything else to comment on User:Nae'blis/Review? -- nae'blis 20:21, 9 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Not at this time. That's a hard whip you're using :) --Durin 21:47, 9 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Long, too. ;) Thanks. -- nae'blis 23:07, 9 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Edit graph.

Hi, I was wondering if you could update :) I'd also like a graph in commons meta and etc :D --Cat out 20:06, 10 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

It may be several days. --Durin 13:29, 11 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Advice sought

Hello Durin.

This spring, I uploaded the coat of arms of Dalhousie University [[7]] and unwittingly gave it the wrong licensing tag. You noted that my use of the arms in a userbox was inappropriate. I thought that an easy way to overcome the intellectual property rights problem would be for me to simplify and abstract the image. You then, however, determined that this was a derivative work (which of course it was) and flagged it for deletion. I must say I was a little miffed at the time because the case law on derivative work is far more lenient here in Canada than it is in the U.S. Still, it was only for a userbox, and user pages are certainly not what the Wikipedia is for.

Nevertheless, I did incorrectly tag the image's license. The design of the coat of arms in question was granted in 1818 [8]and it's been in the public domain for donkey's years. Moreover, even the artwork that constitutes the arms as they're now used by Dalhousie dates from 1950; therefore it, too, is now in the public domain.

[It may be of no consequence, but I'm an acquaintance of Dalhousie's legal counsel (recently retired) and he assures me that the university filing a copyright infringement action against the Wikipedia Foundation, even if it wasn't in the public domain, is as likely as an alien invasion.]

Trouble is, I don't know how to correct the licensing tag for this image. Is there some way this could be done? I would appreciate your advice.

Sincerely, --OldCommentator 04:24, 11 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

You're not going to like my answer :) You make a comment regarding a difference between the design of the coat of arms and its visual depiction (or blazon). A coat of arms may be a thousand years old, but the blazon from that coat of arms may have been made yesterday. We're concerned with the copyright status of the blazon, and not the coat of arms in most cases.
You note that the coat of arms dates from 1818, and the blazon dates from 1950. That gives us a date to work with. Unfortunately, 1950 is probably not old enough. Our public domain tags (see Wikipedia:Image_copyright_tags#General_public_domain_images) have tags for old images. However, the one based on the age of the work, not the author, is for works pubblished prior to 1923. Thus, we become concerned with when the author of the work died. But, in order for it to be straight into PD, the author would have had to have died before s/he made it. Thus, barring a release of rights of the image, we have to assume it's not public domain.
In the vast majority of cases where a copyrighted image is used improperly on Wikipedia, it is highly unlikely that the copyright holder would sue Wikipedia. Nevertheless, we can not work from this perspective because eventually we will be wrong. The price of being wrong is potentially very high; it could sink Wikipedia. Wikipedia does and must work from the perspective that all copyright holders are interested in protecting their rights unless we have positive, provable confirmation they have released their rights. Looking at Dalhousie's copyright statement (http://copyrightoffice.dal.ca/cancopym.html), I'm not readily seeing anything that releases rights to the image in question.
I recommend that you contact Jo-Ann Riggs, Dalhousie's Copyright Officer at the Dalhousie University Copyright Office. Contact info: Killam Library, Main Floor - Administration Office - Telephone: 494-6685 Fax: 494-2062 E-mail: jriggs@dal.ca. In contacting them, it is important to make it clear what you are asking for; Wikipedia does not accept permission only images. We have two broad categories here, either fair use images or images under a free license (such as {{PD-self}} or {{GFDL}}). If Dalhousie grants us permission to use the image on Wikipedia, it would still be used here under a claim of fair use. To aid in writing such a letter to them, please have a look at Commons:Email templates. You may be surprised at the response you get; I recently contacted Transports Quebec, a branch of Government Quebec to gain release of highway signage created by them. It took more than a week, but they responded and released the images.
I hope this helps! I really appreciate you contacting me and your willingness to work towards an amicable solution. If you have any more questions, I'd be happy to answer. --Durin 13:29, 11 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Thank you for your prompt & detailed reply. When time permits I'll contact Jo-Ann Riggs and see if I can get the ball rolling. Cheers, --OldCommentator 14:54, 11 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Jim Hoyl

Hi, I saw the edit you just did for me. Question -- How can I edit the actual page name. I created page "Jim hoyl", but wanted to create page "Jim Hoyl"... ?

ACTUALLY... I found a way to fix it using "move", but it now is automatically re-directed from the misspelled entry. Can't the original (mistake) just be removed/replaced with the correction?

I fixed it. --Durin 00:25, 12 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Lake Lemon edit

I made a change to the Lake Lemon page yesterday, changing the IU Men's Rowing Club to just the IU Rowing Club. I'm the coach of this club, and women who are ineligible to join the varsity team are allowed to (and have) joined the club team. So, if you would kindly unrevert the page from your previous version, it would be appreciated. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Climis (talk • contribs) 22:35, 12 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I'd be happy to. Please understand; edits from a brand new user account which have no edit summary and simply delete content, even if minor, are usually regarded as vandalism. Vandalism is a constant theme on Wikipedia. No edit summary edits that delete content are virtually always vandalism. Further, I have some familiarity with the club team, and was under that (as I understand now) false impression it was limited to men. I worked with one of the members of the club team ~4 years ago. In the future, please leave an edit summary to your edits. Also, when you leave a message on someone's talk page, please add "~~~~" to the end of it, as this will sign the message for you. --Durin 03:55, 13 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Sorry. I'm new at this. But i've read the stuff you linked me too and learned...i hope. Also, the club 4 years ago dissolved and reformed this year. We're looking to find past members, so perhaps you could put your friend in touch with me? Especially if he's still in the Bloomington area. ---Climis 20:42, 13 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  - Sorry, he's moved to the pac-northwest. His name was Josh. Tall guy. --Durin 20:49, 13 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Request

I really liked the clean-up that you did on my image. I was wondering if whenever you have the time if you could take a look at this image Image:Tony and Milly.jpg and maybe fix it up. That's the Marine (Me) and his wife thirty four years ago (smile). Cheers! Tony the Marine 01:16, 15 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I applied some standard techniques to it, but did not get anything that was significantly better quality. With the other image I did, it was mainly about color balance; the color information was there in the picture, but it was badly muted. This image is black & white, and the contrast/brightness is not bad. There's lots of imperfections in the photo that I can't do much with unless I spent a few hours deep in Photoshop. Sorry :( --Durin 03:10, 15 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
P.S. The wife is perfect. The imperfections in the photo are all on your side of the image ;)

Thanks, I told my wife what you said and she agreed (smile). Tony the Marine 23:22, 15 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Copyright status

Could you please check the copyright status on this image Image:37a Richie Ray.jpg? Thanks. Tony the Marine 23:22, 15 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Not much to check. The site has a copyright notice, the image is on their site. --Durin 20:29, 17 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Removal of Image

Thanks for the removal. Prior to this, I did not know about the policy. Sd31415.

You're welcome! --Durin 11:47, 17 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Elkman

We had 25 reports at AIV. I didn't really appreciate joke reports while I trying to clear such a huge backlog. I blocked so I could go look at what was going on when the backlog was cleared. -- Steel 15:45, 17 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I've placed a message on his talk page. I know it seems like a joke report; just trying to clarify what was happening. Perhaps a better course of action would have been to remove the AIV report and ask him on his talk page what he was doing. --Durin 15:46, 17 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I think it's fair to say, from my scan of his recent contribs, the user feels down right now, and probably does indeed need some time to cool off. A nice talk to the user might be warranted here, make him feel better. – Ch acor 15:47, 17 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Normally, I would probably have done that. But as I said, I was wading through a huge backlog at AIV. I'm gonna go look at his contribs in more detail now. -- Steel 15:50, 17 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Sockpuppetry-Please Issue a Block!

Durin- I was looking on an image to see if I was the only user page who the image was linked to. I was not the only user; and therefore I clicked on the other user, who was Deadbath. It is not only a bad and innapropriate username, but it is a clear sockpuppet and threat to my page. It even says my {{user2|Wikipediaman123}} on it, not his or her's, but mine. Wikipediaman123. The header, signature, (most from first glance) were at the location that exactly of my userpage, just not created. It says User:Deadbath/(MYSUBPAGE) rather than User:Wikipediaman123/(SUBPAGE). It is unusual and serious, I will convict him of a sockpuppet. Thus it is not the exact duplicate, it is the same with some missing features. Please write to me on my talk page in order for me to remember to handle and see the progression of the page, if okay, but if you ask for it to be on this one, that is fine. You will get a peek at my signature subpage below:
- Wikipediaman123 23:31, 19 November 2006 (UTC) [reply]
{{User:Wikipediaman123/Signature}}:(Right here)User:Wikipediaman123/Signature

Okay, Saxifrage has resolved this issue.
- Wikipediaman123 11:34, 20 November 2006 (UTC) [reply]
User:Wikipediaman123

Yep, I saw. That's why I didn't take action. I did have a look and he indeed had copied your page. I'll keep an eye on him. The username is not blatantly offensive; could be quite innocuous in fact. I am reminded of the case of User:Trollderella having his username forcibly changed, and the harsh outcomes from that. Your signature is screwing up font settings. --Durin 14:01, 20 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Fair use images

I see, thanks for being informative. Atilim Gunes Baydin 22:37, 20 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

You might also want to check Wikipedia:WikiProject_Elections_and_Referenda/Overview_of_results for a few similar cases. Regards, Atilim Gunes Baydin 22:42, 20 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

A general thank you...

➨ **ЯEDVERS** awards this Barnstar to **Durin** for hard work and being committed to the encyclopedia.

...for being you and for upholding the way of the Wiki. It's appreciated. ➨ ЯEDVERS 21:07, 21 November 2006 (UTC) [reply]

Thank you! Very, very much appreciated at this time. --Durin 21:31, 21 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

On WP:FPC

Hi! I see you withdrew your first featured picture nomination yesterday, and while negative (and possibly nitpicky) remarks from other users may sometimes be discouraging, I hope the reviewers' critical comments do not alienate you from the featured picture selection process. --KFP (talk | contribs) 16:37, 22 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I suspect the WP:FPC process has become overburdened with picayune criteria. But, it's only a suspicion. I don't have time or interest to really investigate further. Since WP:FPC appears to be a minefield for getting a high quality, incredibly illustrative picture through, I'm not terribly encouraged to try again. Having a picture become featured isn't central to the purpose of the project anyways; we're here to build an encyclopedia, after all. While having great pictures helps, what is important here is well referenced content. *shrug* --Durin 16:40, 22 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

WP:AN/I

I removed your post because I don't believe it will help the situation. Please step away from it for 24 hours and don't post about it for at least that long unless to provide specific content details. I believe it has a good chance of getting handled from a content standpoint and that your post will only serve to inflame the situation and keep the issue focused on the wrong thing. People have already stated that they agreed with your initial handling of the situation, you don't need to rub it in. People have also stepped in willing to work out a solution, and again, that's all that's really needed. - Taxman ^Talk 16:53, 22 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I will gladly consent to this. However, the problem here is that User:Husnock continues to ratchet up the assault. I was thoroughly alarmed that today he has ratcheted it up to include accusations that I slandered him. This isn't just flirting with WP:NLT. If he continues the ratcheting, the next step from a legal threat is legal action. I now stand on the verge of being personally, off-wiki, threatened if he continues his onslaught. This is intolerable. Somebody needs to reign him in and get him to back off on the rhetoric and the constant, continual ratcheting up of the situation. I tried to remain calm and cool under fire while an agreement was hammered out. It was. But, subsequent to that he has continued his relentless attacks. How much am I supposed to put up with? Will I have to be in a court of law as defense from him before someone here says enough is enough? Where's the line? Hmm? Where? I've had it. My patience is shot and I refuse to consider the possibility of having to legally defend myself against him. He's now accusing me of revealing personal information about him in the real world (see User:Husnock/Durinharass#Original_actions item #9). Where does it stop? There's no sign of it ending. If I can't be permitted to defend myself here, then somebody else had better see to it. If nobody does, what choice do I have? I am quite happy to let this drop at the agreement of having Zscout370 mediate. He obviously isn't. This needs to stop. now. Now. NOW. --Durin 17:01, 22 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Don't "consent" to it, just do it because it's a good idea. Be the bigger person and be the one that stops first; sometimes that's what it takes. Instead of turning this into Wikiwar III, just let it cool off and deal with the actual content issues a little later. Nothing will implode if a license isn't fixed in the next couple days. As for the rest yeah that sounds like he's a bit out of line, but clearly you're so involved in the situation that you being the one to try to deal with it isn't going to help. - Taxman ^Talk 18:28, 22 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Digestings

For all to see and digest about this concern (which is actually semi-legit)

"If he continues the ratcheting, the next step from a legal threat is legal action"

At no time did I ever threaten you with any legal action. That would be absurd for me to do, I am deployed to the Middle East in a forward unit. Dont know how I would make the court date. Rather the opposite, I am concerned about what you may be doing. You should know I received a VERY disturbing message from an unnamed source which indicated someone had sent them an e-mail asking if they knew a "XXXXX" (using my last name) who "worked for Wikipedia" and "how can I find him". Not saying that was you...cant prove a thing, but its very scary as I am in the Middle East and my family is not. Are they safe? Who knows in this world.

Regarding you concerns that I must have time to make all these changes you want because I am defending these pages with such vigor:

I am deployed with the military to a foreign country. I do not have half of the material needed to double check images. We are also in the holidays. As early as next week, this could all change and I might be off the site for 3-6-9 months. My average Wiki time each day right now is from as little as 20 minutes to 2-3 hours on an off-day. Today, I had perhaps 35 minutes. Not very much time to triple check hundres of images.

Regarding my sub-page:

My new sub-page is a record of what I hav felt you have done to me. Since we both have sub-pages on each, I frmally say I would not care if you removed the delete notice and kept your own page. I need my sub-page to document these thngs. I feel you have treated me pretty badly, hounded me, and disguised yur efforts with a viel of upholding Wikipedia sandards perhaps even subconsciously. You should also know that what threw me over the edge was when you wanted to talk to the girlfriend of my dead grandfather (the lady from Corpus who did me the favor) and my ex-finance (tickling picture). That was simply very hard to handle.

Regarding Navy images from Japan and Korea:

You should also know that I am simply flat on the floor about your blanket statement that JAG and PAO Navy officers dont know what they're talking about. You can be assured that I talked with some very senior people, in both Japan and Korea, and was told in both places that the images from CNFK and CNFJ are property of the United States goverernment. I told YOU this but you appear not to believe me. I eve said I would give you the phone number for the O-6/O-7's office where I talked to the people (although at present I would have to spend time looking for it). If you really want the phone numbers of the Korea/Japan counterparts I guess I could get them too...would you REALLY make an international phone call to someone who probably doesnt speak english to ask them something like thus? That I would I like to see. You probably would have better luck calling the Admiral's office.

Hope that all digests well since you are concerned. The rest of the dispute can be handled by mediators. -Husnock 06:59, 23 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]