The [[WP:Feedback request service|feedback request service]] is asking for participation in [[Wikipedia:Village pump (proposals)#rfc_2EE6635|this request for comment on '''Wikipedia:Village pump (proposals)''']]. <!-- Template:FRS message --> <!-- FRS id 87836 --> [[User:Legobot|Legobot]] ([[User talk:Legobot|talk]]) 04:30, 22 May 2018 (UTC)
The [[WP:Feedback request service|feedback request service]] is asking for participation in [[Wikipedia:Village pump (proposals)#rfc_2EE6635|this request for comment on '''Wikipedia:Village pump (proposals)''']]. <!-- Template:FRS message --> <!-- FRS id 87836 --> [[User:Legobot|Legobot]] ([[User talk:Legobot|talk]]) 04:30, 22 May 2018 (UTC)
== AE notification ==
You are involved in a dispute which [[Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#Factchecker_atyourservice|is being discussed]] at the arbitration enforcement noticeboard. [[User:GoldenRing|GoldenRing]] ([[User talk:GoldenRing|talk]]) 08:22, 22 May 2018 (UTC)
If you're here to alert me to the post-1932 American Politics DS sanctions, the BLP DS sanctions or the pseudoscience DS sanctions, please rest assured, I'm aware. However, notice of specific DS restrictions applicable only to a particular article should already be included in the edit view of that article, so it's safe to assume I'm aware of them as well.
Cheers!...simply point to this notice to prove I was aware.
Did you ever stop to consider that being equal may hold you back?
Oh my! I just realized that I am biased...in favor of WP:NPOV, WP:V and WP:NOR
Do you want to make money from Wikipedia? It's easy! Log out and go to work!
For a lesson in the proper English application of the F-word seethis video
"This is going nowhere good, so let's stop before it gets there." ~Shock Brigade Harvester Boris
Common sense isn't so common anymore.
The FBI has determined that one's political opinion is not bias. Glad that's out of the way.
Is "group think" the academic version of "mob mentality"?Conformity!
Wikipedia: where anyone can edit and enjoy the benefits of income equality.
Early to bed early to rise and you wake-up tired with sleep in your eyes.
If only...
...sarcasm burned calories.
...you knew, you would know.
...closed minds came with closed mouths.
...mosquitos sucked fat instead of blood.
...the good died young, we'd be here forever.
...my teeth were as white as my legs.
...more people were fluent in silence.
Five surgeons...
Five surgeons are discussing who makes the Best patients to operate on.
The first surgeon, says, "I like to see accountants on my operating table because when you open them up, everything inside is numbered."
The second, responds, "Yeah, but you should try electricians! Everything inside them is color coded."
The third surgeon, says, "No, I really think librarians are the best! Everything inside them is in alphabetical order."
The fourth surgeon, chimes in: "You know, I like construction workers. Those guys always understand when you have a few parts left over.'
But the fifth surgeon, shut them all up when he said: 'You're all wrong. Politicians are the easiest to operate on.
There's no guts, no heart, no balls, no brains, and no spine... Plus, the head and the ass are completely interchangeable!
Thought Grenades...
It is much easier to ride a horse in the direction it is going. ~Abraham Lincoln
It gets late early out there. ~Yogi Bera
On Wikipedia, it's important to know when to stop arguing with people, and simply let them be wrong. ~Anonymous
Nodding the head does not row the boat. — Irish Proverb
Make haste slowly. —Kikkoman
Be who you are, say what you mean, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind. — Bernard Baruch
Experience is what you get when you don't get what you want." —Randy Pausch
Dear Karma, I have a list of people you missed.
Dick Pounds - Moe Lester: NPOV or Coatrack
The following are two different paragraphs describing a book author in a hypothetical BLP. Which one do you think is closest to being NPOV and encyclopedic? Please restrict all comments to the section Dick Pounds - Moe Lester below.
1. Dick Pounds is a documentary filmmaker and author of Chemtrails Leave No Cracker Crumbs, an Amazonian best seller (2012-2014). The book received mixed reviews but had wide appeal, and was well received by enthusiasts of conspiracy theories and connoisseurs of soda crackers, salted and unsalted. Pounds' friend, Moe Lester, a chemist for the aerospace giant, MacDonalds-Berger, was head of the company's jet vapor research team. He told Pounds that he found traces of aluminum in the jet vapors, which raised concern over potential aluminum traces in the air we breathe. He explained that the colder temperatures at altitude caused the jet vapors to freeze, and as they fell to earth, they solidified into smaller strips. By the time they hit the ground, they had transformed into shiney crumpled pieces of aluminum that look very much like the material used to make tin foil hats. It was Lester's discovery that convinced Pounds to write his book. A team of aeronautical engineers with Zip Eurfly Inc. disputed Moe Lester's claims in the book, and presented their 5 page scientific evaluation to DOT, dismissing Lester's reports, and debunking Pounds' theory that the aluminum hats he saw people wearing were caused by chem-trails or jet vapors; rather, science confirmed they were genuine aluminum foil hats made from Reynolds Wrap, likely purchased at the local WalMart.ref: New Yanker Times /ref
2. Dick Pounds is a conspiracy theorist and lunatic charlatan who authored Chemtrails Leave No Cracker Crumbs. The book was criticized by many in the scientific community, several of whom were aeronautical engineers with DOT who confirmed that chemtrails do not leave cracker crumbs; rather they leave quacker crumbs.ref: What's Woo Today /ref Sue Yoo, a chemical engineer at Cornmeal University and head of the Jetson Vapor Project Team, a division of Zip Eurfly Inc. denied the presence of aluminum in the jet vapors. Yoo sent a tweet advising Dick Pounds to go pound sand, and called him "a lunatic charlaton" who should not be allowed to write books.ref:The Loonie Review /ref
DYK, GA, FA/FP and Barnstars, all of which represents the wonderful sense of community that is Wikipedia
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
OK, I hope you're happy with your work, I think it's fabulous! And I'm also glad that we could (resolve? set aside? put on hiatus?) our differences elsewhere and that it led to this accomplishment of yours. Cheers! — alf laylah wa laylah (talk) 19:11, 12 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you, Alf. It means a great deal more to me coming from you. I don't even consider our differences as anything to set aside, much less consider. I learned a great deal from the experience, and thank you kindly. Now then, is the article still supposed to be in my sandbox, or did I screw-up yet again? Atsme☯Consult 19:17, 12 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
No, it's normal that it's still in your sandbox. When you move a page out of userspace into mainspace that just happens. You can blank the sandbox version and it won't affect the real version, and then use your sandbox for other stuff. Would you be interested in trying to write a DYK (WP:DYK) from your new article? It'll get it on the main page for a few hours. That process can be a little overwhelming, I know, but if you'd like to try I can help you, or if you'd like it to happen but don't want to get involved, I can do it for you (which is normal, other people proposing DYKs for new articles).— alf laylah wa laylah (talk) 19:23, 12 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I'd love to do something new. If you have the patience to work with me, I'm game. Also, I noticed in the "view history" of my new article, it shows all the edits. Uh oh? Or is that normal? You might want to take a peek at it. Atsme☯Consult 19:26, 12 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
It's supposed to show the history, don't worry about that. I'll think about what might be a good hook, and maybe you can read over the instructions at the DYK page. I believe you have 5 days or 10 days or something from when it's moved into mainspace, so it's not a super hurry.— alf laylah wa laylah (talk) 19:28, 12 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
You can take the lead, and just coach me along so I can see first hand how it's done. Is that ok? Atsme☯Consult 19:33, 12 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
OK, will do later today or tomorrow and let you know what's going on.— alf laylah wa laylah (talk) 19:38, 12 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I miss your insightfulness, your patience, and your genius, Alf.laylah.wa.laylah. I hope you are checking in from time to time, and will see my post. Please come back soon. Atsme☯Consult 20:49, 13 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The above thread is referring to Gabor B. Racz which further substantiates how wrong it was for editors to initiate a WP:GAR within minutes following the wrongful accusations of a COI against me at COIN, particularly regarding this BLP. What ensued at the GAR discussions and on the article's TP should serve as a lesson to all of us regarding allegations of COI without justification, and the only reason I am now bringing it up.
The article Alligator gar you nominated as a good article has passed ; see Talk:Alligator gar for comments about the article. Well done! If the article has not already been on the main page as an "In the news" or "Did you know" item, you can nominate it to appear in Did you know. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Cwmhiraeth -- Cwmhiraeth (talk) 18:42, 11 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Cwmhiraeth, thank you for the update, and congratulations on your accomplishments!! Atsme☯Consult 03:59, 16 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I did the DYK nomination
It's here: Template:Did you know nominations/Gabor B. Racz. You might want to put it on your watchlist because it's sometimes necessary to do a little editing before it's accepted, but in this case I think that'll be minimal. By the way, you should be quite proud of the minimal attention the article got from new page patrollers. You probably didn't realize it, but those two or three small edits people made right after you moved it were just the tip of the iceberg of probably around a hundred people looking it over to make sure it wasn't too crappy to survive, and then it got assessed with a C by the bio wikiproject. Very good!— alf laylah wa laylah (talk) 22:10, 13 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Makes me smile. Thank you. I'm reading up on QPQ, DYK, KMA, IDK, MMD, etc., etc., etc. I have a 6 ft. sheet of initialisms and acronyms that will probably take me 3 years to learn. Atsme☯ talk 22:23, 13 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Oh, WOW, Alf!!! WOW!! We did it!!! Thank you, thank you!!! Atsme☯ talk 23:46, 25 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Did you look at the main page and see it on there? I took a screenshot for you in case you want a souvenir, which I can email to you if you'd like. Fabulous work, it flew right through the review. That's very rare on a first try. You should be proud. There are all kinds of little widgets you can put on your userpage to commemorate the occasion if you want to.— alf laylah wa laylah (talk) 00:20, 26 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
The article's main page, or one of the links on the banner? Not quite versed in navigating DYK. I would love a souvenir, Alf - thank you bunches, and thank you for the kind words, but I can't take full credit. I had one helluva teacher in you! Where do I get the widgets? Oh, and I added the DYK tool, I think. I need to read up on the DYK procedures, because right now it's all a bit confusing. Once that light goes on in my head, I'll be on the fast track. I also made my first template, and uploaded more pictures to Commons. That was fun, too. Just have to be careful I don't grow roots in this chair. I lose track of time, and before I realize it, 10 to 12 hrs have passed. Atsme☯ talk 02:46, 26 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
No, the actual front page of Wikipedia that the whole world sees when they land on it. It's still on there now, so you can see it live, but in case you don't get this in time I'll send you the screenshot anyway. It's amazing how time flies, isn't it?— alf laylah wa laylah (talk) 02:58, 26 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Oh, Wow!!! No, I didn't know!! Atsme☯ talk 03:01, 26 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, that's the payoff for writing good new content. Amazing, isn't it? Do you know how to check page views in the article history? Wait till the date changes and you'll see your article got thousands of views today.— alf laylah wa laylah (talk) 03:05, 26 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Sure is a good feeling, Alf. Amazing, and very rewarding. Page views? I don't know how to check page views. That is really awesome beyond words! Is there a link to the Widgets for my user page? --Atsme☯ talk 03:17, 26 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not sure if there's a general link. I use little teensy ones that I copied off someone else's page, you can see them on my user page. Also you can just look at other people's userpages who do DYKs and see what they do. That's probably the best way to find them, but also there might be a category or a list of them somewhere, I just don't know.— alf laylah wa laylah (talk) 03:24, 26 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Great works!! You have improved a lot....Keep up....
The herald 15:33, 27 July 2014 (UTC)[reply] The Herald - how sweet - thank you!! And thank you for being so patient and giving of your time. I'm pretty excited about a couple new projects I'm working on offline, and also trying to improve a very inaccurate "start" article that relies heavily on self-published sources, and original research. Atsme☯Consult 16:13, 28 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
The article American paddlefish you nominated as a good article has passed ; see Talk:American paddlefish for comments about the article. Well done! If the article has not already been on the main page as an "In the news" or "Did you know" item, you can nominate it to appear in Did you know. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of FunkMonk -- FunkMonk (talk) 00:42, 5 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]
The article Bowfin you nominated as a good article has passed ; see Talk:Bowfin for comments about the article. Well done! If the article has not already been on the main page as an "In the news" or "Did you know" item, you can nominate it to appear in Did you know. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Chiswick Chap -- Chiswick Chap (talk) 18:43, 29 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]
To Atsme, an overdue barnstar for the impressive articles she has written on "primitive" fish. Well done! --Epipelagic (talk) 19:38, 11 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
The article Gabor B. Racz you nominated as a good article has passed ; see Talk:Gabor B. Racz for comments about the article. Well done! If the article has not already been on the main page as an "In the news" or "Did you know" item, you can nominate it to appear in Did you know. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Cwmhiraeth -- Cwmhiraeth (talk) 11:03, 1 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Just a quick note to congratulate you on the promotion of American paddlefish to FA status recently. If you would like to see this (or any other FA) appear as "Today's featured article" soon (either on a particular date or on any available date), please nominate it at the requests page. If you'd like to see an FA appear on a particular date in the next year or so, please add it to the "pending" list. In the absence of a request, the article may end up being picked at any time (although with about 1,287 articles waiting their turn at present, there's no telling how long – or short! – the wait might be). If you'd got any TFA-related questions or problems, please let me know. BencherliteTalk 10:46, 3 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you, Bencherlite. I believe in the DYK/GA/FA process, admire the reviewers for their diligence, and generosity of their time, and hope I will be able to help bring more quality articles to Wikipedia. Atsme☯Consult 12:25, 3 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
intrinsic beauty of sharing knowledge
Thank you, free at last, for quality articles such as American paddlefish and Gabor B. Racz, written with the background of experience and in the spirit that there's "something indescribable, yet intrinsically beautiful about sharing knowledge", - you are an awesome Wikipedian!
One of the best Christmas gifts ever. Thank you Gerda Arendt. It is such an honor to receive this from you!! Atsme☯Consult 13:35, 24 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
A year ago, you were recipient no. 1072 of Precious, a prize of QAI! Thank you for great wishes, starting early, - I am still on my way and found in a 16th century text (and music) inspiration to go over the mountains, be inspired, support each other, and sing! All the good wishes are open now on my talk, to be shared, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:17, 24 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Two years ago, you were recipient no. 1072 of Precious, a prize of QAI! My Christmas card will appear on my talk later today. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:57, 24 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Awww...thank you, Gerda Arendt. Your "Precious" prize generates feelings of warmth, love and peace. You are a very special Wikipedian as its founder and distributor. Atsme📞📧 15:00, 24 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
In recognition of your COI Ducks essay, which I find to be of value in facing the fact that Wikipedia has a serious ongoing problem. It takes bravery and moral conviction to stand up against the forces of organized COI editing. Thanks for your work. Jusdafax 15:38, 7 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
By the way, I see you had the same type of visitor I had today. I've banned him from my talk page, just so you know you aren't the only one. Best wishes, Jusdafax 21:47, 7 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for the lovely barnstar, Jusdafax. My TP will wear it with pride. Atsme☯Consult 04:08, 8 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
To Atsme
Ice Cream Award
Atsme, gotta love being propped up to do a favor for others, only to be thrown to the wolves with no one by your side, eh? Welcome to Wikipedia! I've been wracking my brain trying to figure out how to make it up to you, and then i remembered..... ice cream exists. Please have some. You deserve it. petrarchan47tc 23:10, 5 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I'll definitely take it!! Thank you, Petra! Atsme☯Consult 01:16, 6 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
While you're enjoying your ice cream, you might feel to watch this. petrarchan47tc 23:25, 8 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Believe it or not, I just sat down with a bowl of ice cream (Chocolate Royale) and fired up the computer and read this, so yes, I thoroughly enjoyed all the treats, thank you! Atsme☯Consult 02:14, 9 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
A barnstar for you!
The Copyeditor's Barnstar
For your work in Nirmala. Looks like you are a bit busy with all. Good day.. -The Heraldthe joy of the LORDmy strength 03:59, 8 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
This is lovely, TH. Thank you. It was a fun article to collaborate on with you. Atsme☯Consult 04:05, 8 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
God willin', you will have another collaboration soon. Its a mammoth one. -The Heraldthe joy of the LORDmy strength 04:13, 8 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Shall I hint you? It's the most beautiful building in the world. Check my contribs and help me. -The Heraldthe joy of the LORDmy strength 07:31, 11 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Bubble tea!! Thank you!! Atsme☯Consult 17:37, 13 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Essay
The Barnstar of Diplomacy
I really can't claim to be a fan of the essay, but I would like to say that I appreciate the edits made in response to my concerns. I also respect and appreciate that you were willing and able to hear my concerns in the midst of an emotional and confrontational discussion. Formerly 98talk|contribs|COI statement 12:54, 14 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you, Formerly 98. I am flattered and honored by your gesture of kindness. I do hope we can work together in a productive collaboration in the near future. I really do like your style. Atsme☯Consult 00:23, 15 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
A kitten for you!
Woke up just now to see Nirmala already a GA!!! Gratitude........
Almost, but not quite. I'll still gratefully accept the fuzzy little kitty. Atsme☯Consult 03:28, 18 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
A barnstar for you!
The Random Acts of Kindness Barnstar
You deserve the barnstar and the credit. Forget not to add a userbox in Nirmala's name.... -The Heraldthe joy of the LORDmy strength 11:33, 18 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
How sweet! Thank you, Govindaharihari. Your cupcake made it a nice day. Atsme📞📧 14:20, 1 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
A beer for you!
(It was this or something called "bubble tea"- hope you like beer!) I see WP has regained a bit of its sanity. Welcome back xxxooo petrarchan47คุก 00:07, 14 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for uploading the pictures
A cute pinto foal for you!
Thanks for uploading the photos, I added them to the articles (both the I Am Jose ones to his article, and one of him and the arena picture to the TWHNC article. Thanks again! 😊 White Arabian Filly (Neigh) 20:33, 17 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
You are very welcome! 😊Atsme📞📧 17:03, 18 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for your contributions to Wikipedia. North America1000 09:54, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
A barnstar for you!
The Copyeditor's Barnstar
For your tireless contributions in bringing Loham to GA status. :-) Charles Turing (talk) 11:35, 3 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you, Charles Turing. It was an interesting project to work on. Atsme📞📧 17:55, 3 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
A kitten for you!
Meow! This cat swings all ways, vax and anti-vax, and will accept homeopathy, acupuncture, traditional Chinese medicine, and milk. And kitten hugs.
Drmies (talk) 14:34, 15 March 2016 (UTC)[reply] Soft kitty, warm kitty, little ball of fur. Happy kitty, sleepy kitty, purr, purr, purr. *lol* Thanks, Drmies. If that cat ever authors a book about feline acupuncture, I'll do my best to include a section on the motivation and inspiration behind it. In kitty language, CAM/Alt Med can only mean one thing - creature comfort. Cats are pretty amazing creatures, as I'm sure you're well aware. Following is what homeo-pity meant to our 20+ yr. old barn cat who actually knew she was going to die. I say that with conviction because of the events that led up to it, beginning with her rare visit to the house. She stood at my front door meowing until I answered. I didn't know what was wrong with her - she looked fine for her age - so I picked her up, and sat on the porch swing with her in my lap. She responded well to a little love and attention; laid very still purring while I gently rubbed her head. After I went back into the house, she stayed there in the swing. I found her little lifeless body the next morning exactly where I left her. She came to tell me goodbye. Atsme📞📧 17:04, 15 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
For your contributions toward a greater understanding of human–bovine interactions. Thank you for the GA review of Cow tipping. Moo. Brianhe (talk) 14:03, 1 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Well earned, although I personally have to admit that when I saw "involuntary recumbency" in the edit summary I was thinking that it was some sort of euphemism for being sick or in the hospital or something. John Carter (talk) 14:26, 1 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you Brianhe - it's not only a creative barnstar, it's one that is udderly appreciated. It really moooved me. Sooo...along the lines of what John Carter said, when I first saw "involuntary recumbency" I thought someone was going to force me to ride a recumbent. Q: What did the cow say to the cow-tipping rednecks? A: Don't mooove a muscle! Atsme📞📧 15:39, 1 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
So is that what "don't forget to tip your server" means? --Tryptofish (talk) 16:49, 1 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
When you need an engineer instead
"Everything I Know About Engineering" Award
The highest honor bestowed upon editors who ask scientists a question that only engineers can answer. Choo-choo on that for a while.
Hi Atsme, I saw your post on Anarchyte's talk page and just now discovered your amazing work on Wikipedia. Why have you not yet applied for the Rfa? Xender Lourdes (talk) 00:34, 12 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for the kind words, Xender Lourdes. I actually self-reverted after I re-read A's user page and realized their userbox correctly displayed their time as an editor, which to me is pretty amazing considering all the accomplishments in such a short period of time. And thank you Xender for your contributions and the excellent work you've been doing. I actually have given some consideration to adminship but I'm not quite ready for it. I occasionally help at DRN when I can - not as much as I should - and from time to time I'll close at ANI, but at this point in time, I very much enjoy working with the Equine Project team, creating articles, reviewing GA/FA candidates, improving/expanding articles for GA/FA promotion as well as helping others prep theirs, and I also enjoy spending time on Commons, providing photographs that are needed for articles, and helping review FP candidates. It's "happy time" for me. Admins have a huge responsibility, and to do the job right requires a great deal of time, patience, and understanding. Perhaps after I achieve most of my goals as a content creator and GA/FA contributor, adminship may be something I'd consider. Atsme📞📧 04:26, 12 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Understood :) It was good to have come across you. See you around. Xender Lourdes (talk) 10:16, 12 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
A barnstar for you!
The Working Woman's Barnstar
For your thankless efforts at the Faisalabad GA review, and, in general, for all your splendid contributions to Wikipedia. We are blessed to have someone like you here! Sainsf(talk· contribs) 07:45, 20 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you, Sainsf. What a wonderful surprise, and an honor. Atsme📞📧 10:47, 20 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
What goes around...
...comes around. With the "what" being the fact that I'm going to have that image on my talk page beyond the death of humanity itself, when only the barren expanses of the empty internet remain. But I'll let crazy pig man speak for himself. Colonel Wilhelm Klink (Complaints|Mistakes) 01:31, 30 August 2016 (UTC) Seriously though, I'm glad you enjoyed my depository of failed amateur comedy user page.[reply]
Colonel Wilhelm Klink, I don't trust that the internet will be here in recognizable form in the future, so I printed & framed your crazy pig man and hung it on the wall. Our little pot bellied pig gazes upon it dreamily every day. Atsme📞📧 15:13, 31 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I hope your pig gets many hours of enjoyment from it (because God knows nobody else will). Now the only thing left to do is invite Kramer over to your house. ("Jerry! It's the pig man!") :) Colonel Wilhelm Klink (Complaints|Mistakes) 18:11, 31 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Just to let you know, the Featured Picture File:Chain moray eel.jpg is scheduled to be Picture of the Day on September 22, 2017. If you get a chance, you can check and improve the caption at Template:POTD/2017-09-22. Thank you for all of your contributions! — Chris Woodrich (talk) 07:12, 8 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you, Crisco! Great news...I'll check the caption.Atsme📞📧 11:30, 8 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
DYK for Chris Sherwin
On 10 November 2017, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Chris Sherwin, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that animal behavior scientist Chris Sherwin wrote that insects can experience "negative mental states"? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Chris Sherwin. You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, Chris Sherwin), and it may be added to the statistics page if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.
for your engagement on the NPP and ACTRIAL issues whether or not your opinions concur with mine. At least you now have the eyes and ears of the WMF. Thank you :) Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 03:58, 25 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you Kudpung, but it is you I applaud for your leadership and steadfastness in this worthy endeavor. I believe we are of the same opinion regarding the essential elements; however, as an ideaologistwho makes-up words I'm not above throwing stuff against the wall to see what sticks, especially when there's a stalemate. It is long past due for the project to have safeguards in place to assure sustainability and integrity of the encyclopedia. Atsme📞📧 16:41, 25 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Congrats again, and having looked at the FPC page, I actually have a question that reflects my limited knowledge of photography: what does "high EV" mean? --Tryptofish (talk) 21:32, 2 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you, Tryptofish - EV = Encyclopedic Value...it's a requirement for WP:FP candidates, but not for Commons FP candidates. They judge differently. Atsme📞📧 21:37, 2 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Oh, of course, and nothing to do with camera settings! If I weren't a fish already, I'd self-whale! --Tryptofish (talk) 21:41, 2 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
And Tryp, I had the perfect template made for that, too - Self-whale... for when a trout just isn't enough, as you already know, but reminders don't hurt considering the antsy trigger fingers of template deletionists which make the saying "use it or lose it" encyclopedic. I was hoping that my template creator would add the words "...when a trout just isn't enough." to the self-whale templateI figured it out, now done!20:24, 5 August 2017 (UTC) but I was happy and appreciative for the template he created. I will add that he did make the perfect template for Just curious... which included the emoji & dots... Atsme📞📧 22:35, 2 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
A barnstar for you!
The Special Barnstar
To Atsme, for your tireless and patient mentoring of me on the article Charmayne James in order to bring it to good article status. My first good article attempt. And also for your outstanding editing skills. There aren't enough words. Thank you!
Awwww...how sweet of you Dawnleelynn. It truly was my pleasure. Atsme📞📧 22:49, 8 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The Half Barnstar
The Half Barnstar
For cooperating so well with MrX on the article and talk page for Trump campaign–Russian meeting and for taking it with a good balance of grace and productivity, I award you the Right Half of the Barnstar! DARTHBOTTOtalk•cont 20:53, 22 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
😂 My first!! Priceless...thank you, DarthBotto. You get the other half + a whole one!! Atsme📞📧 21:11, 22 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Blessings
Cite error: There are <ref> tags on this page without content in them (see the help page).قبل أسبوع ويوم الحسين عليه السلام عليكم ورحمة اللة الرحمن الرحيم السلام عليكم ورحمة اللة الرحمن الرحيم السلام عليكم ورحمة 🤔😆😇😘😇🤗😍😎😋😋😋😊😊😊😊😚🤗😘😇🎩📿💎💄💄📿📿📿👑👚👟👙🎒🎒🛍🛍👝👝👜👜👜❣❣💟💞💥💣💝👏👣👃👂✍✍✍🖎💅👐👀💪👪💏💏👬👈👊✊🖐🤘🙇👥👥👤🗣🙏🙏129.45.69.222 (talk) 12:18, 14 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
(talk page stalker)Google translate gives "A week ago and the day of al - Hussein peace and mercy be upon you". Galobtter (talk) 12:34, 14 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Galobtter Thank you for the translation. Atsme📞📧 20:39, 14 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Holidays and special occasions
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
How sweet!! Thank you!! I intend to make it the happiest Thanksgiving ever!! I say that every year and because of my spotty memory, each one is the happiest!!! Atsme📞📧 16:43, 25 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Season's greetings and all the best in the upcoming New Year! Brandmeistertalk 15:31, 23 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Wow - animated, too. Love it!! Thank you, Brandmeister.
Merry Christmas
Merry Christmas!
I've been hearing from the elves that you've been a little worried about how Santa's list is looking for you. They say he's almost done with his second check, and so far it looks like you've hardly been naughty at all! Thanks for the work you do and the help and nice words that you have shared with me. You have brought joy into my work here.
I wish you and your family a Merry Christmas and a very Happy New Year Gandydancer (talk) 17:52, 23 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
My thanks to you...
...for your card. I hope that you and yours have had, and will have, a good holiday, and a happy and productive New Year. BMK (talk) 20:38, 23 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Wonderful holidays
Merry Christmas and a happy New Year! --Tremonist (talk) 15:22, 23 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Best wishes for your Christmas Is all you get from me 'Cause I ain't no Santa Claus Don't own no Christmas tree. But if wishes was health and money I'd fill your buck-skin poke Your doctor would go hungry An' you never would be broke." —C.M. Russell, Christmas greeting 1914. Montanabw(talk)
Thank you, Montanabw. I imagine it's snowing where you are right now, so snuggle up by the fireplace and stay warm. I hear a fire in the fireplace is ok on Christmas Eve because Santa has an alternate route. 🎁 Atsme📞📧 20:37, 24 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Season's Greetings
Season's Greetings
A very happy holidays to you! --Godot13 (talk) 06:03, 25 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Best wishes for 2016 . . .
Atsme, may you continue to make Wikipedia a better place in the New Year. Cheers. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 04:42, 31 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Auld Lang Syne brings back so many memories. 🎼 🎤 Thank you, Dirtlawyer1. I am ready for the countdown. 💃🍸🎉Atsme📞📧 15:08, 31 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you, Davey2010!! It was certainly happy last night!! Wishing you a happy and productive 2016!! Atsme📞📧 16:00, 1 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
You're welcome :), Haha same here!, By Monday It'll all be back to normal & everyone will be miserable again , Thanks and I wish you a very Happy New Year too :) .... again! . –Davey2010Merry Xmas / Happy New Year 22:10, 1 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I'm wearing ear plugs and body armor. Times have changed!! *lol* Thank you for the well-wishes, White Arabian Filly!!
Happy 4th
Happy 4th!
Hope your 4th is red white and blue! (With other colors too) Horsegeek(talk) 22:11, 3 July 2016 (UTC)Horsegeek[reply]
Thank you, Horsegeek - I'm enjoying the fireworks displays all around me while being thankful for the rains we just had, especially considering the expanse of my coastal hay fields - the same fields we haven't been able to cut because of all the rain. Atsme📞📧 02:50, 4 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Halloween cheer!
Thank you, Northamerica1000. I look forward to your cheers on holidays/occasions. They remind me what day it is!! Atsme📞📧 01:14, 1 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Well, Halloween is already over on UTC time, but glad to provide the reminder! North America1000 01:42, 1 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Halloween cheer!
Sorry I was meant to have sent this last night, Late's better than never :P, Anyway a Happy Halloween :), –Davey2010Talk 12:30, 1 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I'm still wearing my Halloween costume so you're right - it's never too late!! Thank you for the cheers, Davey2010Atsme📞📧 17:58, 1 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Happy Thanksgiving!
Happy Thanksgiving!
Wishing you a wonderful Thanksgiving with lots of good food and family!
White Arabian FillyNeigh
Ohhhh...how sweet!! Thank you, White Arabian Filly. I'm feeling a little homesick for our American traditions and above all missing my family, but it's hard to resist the beautiful sunrises and sunsets of this island. Wishing you & yours a very HAPPY THANKSGIVING!! Atsme📞📧 23:38, 23 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Island? That sounds interesting and exotic. I'm jealous! --Tryptofish (talk) 00:44, 24 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Tryptofish, spreek je Nederlands? Dat doen we op Bonaire alsmede Papiamentu, en een Spaanse, en Engels. Atsme📞📧 02:43, 24 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Mais non. Je parle Anglais très mal, bien sur, aussi un peu de Français. Je suis encore jaloux. Papiamentu? Formidable! --Tryptofish (talk) 22:42, 24 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Tryptofish I think your English is great, and I'm impressed with your French. I'd be happy to give you a personal tour of the island as my honored guest if that will lift your spirits. As for Papiamentu, I can throw out a few sentences....Un buricu no ta un bestia bunita, ma tampoco un bestia mahos. And in closing, I can say without reservation, "Mi ta hari henter dia." Atsme📞📧 23:32, 24 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
LOL! Don't hear Dutch spoken very often. (That is Dutch, right?) Horsegeek(talk) 04:45, 24 November 2016 (UTC)Horsegeek[reply]
Yes it is - the perfect Google translate Dutch. Atsme📞📧 13:31, 24 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
So I'm not the only Wikipedia editor who can't speak multiple languages?! 😊White Arabian FillyNeigh 15:45, 24 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Totally not! I can speak Cantonese, and a bit of Vietnamese. Mostly on the understanding side though. So not perfect! Horsegeek(talk) 18:06, 24 November 2016 (UTC)Horsegeek[reply]
Impressive!! Atsme📞📧 23:32, 24 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Gobble
Gobble
"Gobble. The gobble is a loud, rapid gurgling sound made by male turkeys. The gobble is one of the principal vocalizations of the male wild turkey and is used primarily in the spring to let hens know he is in the area." Happy Thanksgiving! Let's just say you've been gobbled. Horsegeek(talk) 18:04, 24 November 2016 (UTC)Horsegeek[reply]
Horsegeek, if I've been gobbled, it's probably because my wattle confused ole Tom. Hoping you had an amazing turkey day!! 😂 Atsme📞📧 23:06, 24 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I hope you had a good one too! Though honestly, I had more ham than turkey Horsegeek(talk) 04:02, 25 November 2016 (UTC)Horsegeek[reply]
Happy Holiday!
Atsme, Happy Holiday/New Year!--Ozzie10aaaa (talk) 11:42, 7 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Hi, Ozzie10aaaa - thank you so much for the beautiful wishes! I will reciprocate in kind by wishing you and yours a joyous and merry Christmas and a Happy New Year as we near the close of 2016. I pray we'll be around to celebrate many more!! Atsme📞📧 16:57, 10 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Merry Christmas!
Merry Christmas
Hoping you stay warm and have lots of good times and good food this holiday season! White Arabian FillyNeigh
Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year!
Merry Christmas!
Have a safe Christmas! Horsegeek(talk) 17:17, 16 December 2016 (UTC)Horsegeek[reply]
"Here's hoping that the worst end of your trail is behind you That Dad Time be your friend from here to the end And sickness nor sorrow don't find you." —C.M. Russell, Christmas greeting 1926. Montanabw(talk) 23 December 2016 (UTC)
Thank you, Montanabw, I'm looking forward to seeing some really kewl racetrack pictures!! Atsme📞📧 23:34, 23 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Muhammad Ali
Hi Atsme, could I get some feedback or assistance from you on how to convert Muhammad Ali into a GA article? Please note that there are some regulars who have been contributing to this article, and if you decide to get involved personally, it might help if you comment on the talk page of this article. Thank you. Soham321 (talk) 00:06, 24 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
and a very merry christmas and happy new year to you. Soham321 (talk) 00:15, 24 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Hi Soham321, I'm happy to help. Will give it a look tomorrow. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to you, too!! May your holidays be filled with many blessings! Atsme📞📧 02:02, 24 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for helping make Wikipedia a better place. Blessings. May we all have peace in the coming year. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 15:08, 26 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Belated Holiday Greetings
Merry... uh, well, I guess Christmas!
My apologies for not reaching you sooner; I've been on a three week break for some reason. Hence, let me belatedly thank you for your thoughts this holiday season; I am very grateful for the thought, and I sincerely appreciate the gesture. Allow me to wish you and your loved ones a happy (remainder of the) holiday season, and a prosperous year to come. :) Colonel Wilhelm Klink (Complaints|Mistakes) 21:49, 27 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Beautiful picture, Northamerica1000. Thank you, and HAPPY NEW YEAR TO YOU!!! My kindest & warmest wishes to you & yours with hopes for a prosperous and peaceful new year. Atsme📞📧 14:16, 1 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you, Davey2010 - can you believe another year just passed us by? Wow...I hope we can celebrate many, many more!!! HAPPY NEW YEAR TO YOU!!! 🎉🎈🍾🍸 Atsme📞📧 14:13, 1 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
You're welcome, I know eh 2016 had gone too quick but in the end It was a crap year so kinda glad it did fly by! :), Arr thanks and I too hope we celebrate many more!!!, I hope you and your family have a very Happy and Healthy New Year :), –Davey2010Merry Xmas / Happy New Year 16:03, 1 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you, Northamerica1000 - I'm looking forward to all the Skittles & Snickers bars the kids will be bringing home!! Atsme📞📧 00:41, 27 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Halloween cheer!
Thank you, Adityavagarwal - such sweet words. I'm still eating Halloween candy, so that's a one-day holiday that keeps on giving!! Atsme📞📧 15:00, 5 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Enjoy the candy! :D It is awesome that despite the halloween being finished, your candies are not. I am taking a few candies from you, as it is not over yet, and i also love to eat them! :) Adityavagarwal (talk) 16:20, 5 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Happy thanksgiving
–Davey2010Talk has given you a Turkey! Turkeys promote WikiLove and hopefully this has made your day better. Spread the WikiLove by giving someone else a turkey, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past or a good friend. Happy Thanksgiving!
Spread the goodness of turkey by adding {{Thanksgiving Turkey}} to their talk page with a friendly message.
YUMMY!! I'm thinking Cajun this year. 🦃 Atsme📞📧 21:02, 22 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Happy Thanksgiving!
Happy Thanksgiving!
Wishing you a wonderful Thanksgiving with lots of good food and family!
White Arabian FillyNeigh 22:42, 22 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you, WAF!!! Tomorrow is going to be a fun day for us!! Hope it is for you, too!! Atsme📞📧 22:48, 22 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Happy Turkey Day
Happy Thanksgiving!
Hope you are having a wonderful Thanksgiving Holiday with your family and friends!
dawnleelynn(talk) 20:54, 23 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Great times! Thank you, Dawn!! Atsme📞📧 16:07, 24 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Happy turkey day
Northamerica1000 is wishing you a happy Thanksgiving. If you don't celebrate Thanksgiving, don't forget that "Any time is turkey time" (see image). North America1000 05:53, 24 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Yes indeed it is!! Thanks, NA1000!! Fun times! Atsme📞📧 16:08, 24 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Holiday Cheer + a barnstar
The Happy Holiday Barnstar
How about combining a Barnstar with a Christmas Card? That is why this message is appearing on your talk page. Simultaneously and at the same time, this barnstar is conferred upon you because during this past year you worked and contributed your time to improve the encyclopedia. You also have received far too little recognition for your contributions. In addition, this is a small attempt at spreading holiday cheer. I've appreciated all the things that you have done for me. The Best of Regards, Barbara (WVS)✐ ✉ and Merry Christmas 01:01, 17 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Love this, Barb!! Thank you! Atsme📞📧 16:30, 23 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Wishing you and yours a Happy Holiday Season, from the horse and bishop person. May the year ahead be productive and troll-free and you not often get distracted by dice-playing. Ealdgyth - Talk 13:58, 17 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Love the uniqueness of your holiday wishes! Thank you, Ealdgyth! Atsme📞📧 16:29, 23 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Merry Christmas!
Merry Christmas
Hoping you stay warm and have lots of good times and good food this holiday season! White Arabian FillyNeigh 22:06, 17 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you, WAF!! We'll probably have the cold without the snow (as usual) but it promises to be another wonderful Christmas to remember! Atsme📞📧 16:27, 23 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
No fancy template...
Atsme, but just but to wish you happy holidays and all the best for 2018. It's probably a lot warmer where I am than where you are 😎 Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 02:44, 21 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Awwwe, Kudz - thank you! The well wishes themselves are what make the holidays happy, not the templates they come in. Add to that, the holiday music and watching Miracle on 34th Street, and I get so santa-mental. Atsme📞📧 04:48, 21 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Season's greetings
Hi Atsme, thank you for the lovely card. I would never have guessed that it was a Christmas tree worm! They're beautiful. Anyway, Merry Christmas to you and wishing you all the best for the New Year. SarahSV(talk) 22:17, 22 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you! Imagine...3 more sleeps, SV - and I've become duly dutifully santamental... 🤶🎁🎉🎊 🥂🍾 Atsme📞📧 00:38, 23 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Merry Christmas!
Wish you a Merry Christmas and a prosperous New Year 2018!
A very Happy, Glorious, Prosperous Christmas and New Year! God bless! — Adityavagarwal (talk) 17:09, 22 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you, Adityavagarwal - I can almost hear the jingle bells on Santa's sleigh! The sound keeps getting closer! Atsme📞📧 16:24, 23 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Looks like that picture will be as close as I'll be getting to snow this year! Thanks, Davey!! Buckle up for 2018!! Atsme📞📧 16:31, 23 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Seasons' Greetings
...to you and yours, from the Great White North! FWiW Bzuk (talk) 16:45, 23 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
What a surprise!! So happy to meet your acquaintance Bzuk. There are several parallels in the adventures we've experienced in life. I reciprocated on your TP. Atsme📞📧 19:24, 23 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you, CAPTAIN RAJU!!! You have been a staple in AfD listings and relists. Thank you again!! Atsme📞📧 21:03, 23 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Merry Christmas!
Hello, Atsme! Thank you for your work to maintain and improve Wikipedia! Wishing you a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year! ―Buster7☎ 22:25, 23 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you, Buster7 - wishing you & your loved ones a Blessed and Merry Christmas, and may the New Year reward you with success, happiness and harmony. Atsme📞📧 05:25, 24 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!
Merry Christmas!
Wishing you warmth and joy throughout this holiday season and a very Happy New Year! -dawnleelynn(talk) 22:29, 23 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you, Dawnleelynn!! Hoping 2018 will be a fun and productive New Year for us all!! Atsme📞📧 05:36, 24 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
HH!
Happy Holidays! Happy New Year!
Thinking of you and wishing you good health and happiness. --Rosiestep (talk) 23:23, 23 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Awww, thank you Rosiestep!! Hope Santa brings you everything you wished for, and that the New Year rewards your efforts with much success and happiness!! Atsme📞📧 05:33, 24 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
LOL* Love it, RexxS - thank you! Wishing you & yours much happiness, and that 2018 will be a prosperous one!! Atsme📞📧 05:42, 24 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Happy New Year! Best wishes for 2018, —PaleoNeonate – 14:20, 29 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
2018‼️ WooHoo‼️ 🎉🥂🍾 Thank you, PaleoNeonate! Wishing you a happy & prosperous New Year! Atsme📞📧 15:45, 29 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Happy new year to you too Paleo. :) —usernamekiran(talk) 18:33, 29 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you, Kiran - have fun Sunday night at countdown and party like a rock star!!! Atsme📞📧 18:47, 29 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
oh hey Atsme! Didnt see you there. You too, have a great new year. Naa, nothing different for me at all, just another day like every other day. Well, except for the TV shows. They have many special programs on 31st. —usernamekiran(talk) 18:51, 29 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Blwyddyn Newydd Dda
Thank you, Martin!! And wherever you may be performing or traveling - BE SAFE!! Thank you for all you do and have done. May our 2018 be even more productive and inspiring than last year!! Atsme📞📧 00:09, 1 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you Davey2010, you never fail to make me smile!! Wishing you and yours a happy & prosperous NEW YEAR!!! Atsme📞📧 01:30, 1 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Gerda Arendt, thank you sweetie pie. I love your "Precious" gems. Just one question - in 2014, you adorned my page with the 3 yr. precious gem. Has time stood still? *lol* Atsme📞📧 17:16, 24 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I am perhaps too brief: in 2014 I found you precious, still on this page, but collapsed, therefore I sent the reminder that it was three years ago. It's forever ;) - Did Texas see my green heart? (There will more tomorrow, but a start is made.) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:22, 24 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Ohhhh...now I understand. Love it even more. Atsme📞📧 17:27, 24 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
CNN's bias
FYI, I consider CNN to have a slight left bias. This chart is pretty good. -- BullRangifer (talk) PingMe 22:32, 22 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Except at least the Jacobin is way to the left of where they have it.Volunteer Marek (talk) 22:38, 22 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
And the New Republic is nowhere near that leftist. On some things its downright right wing (foreign policy).Volunteer Marek (talk) 22:39, 22 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Ah, but what country would one consider the center? I've always thought of the center as a moving target. O3000 (talk) 22:47, 22 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
There's a bit of both. Some policy questions have a sort of more natural metric (how high you think taxes should be?) while other are more subjective.Volunteer Marek (talk) 22:55, 22 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I think they're judging it by political persuasion of the viewers. Perhaps rather than saying right or left, a much better analysis would be liberal or conservative. We have both in each party. CNN also leads internationally - Europe, Middle East, Africa, Asia and Latin America - (and all throughout the Caribbean islands). Atsme📞📧 23:03, 22 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
She says that she bases it on the stories and their content, not the viewers. Also, she seems to be trying really hard to make it look like a bell curve for some reason, which, since this is a 2D graph makes no sense (this is probably why she put Jacobin as much closer to the center than it really is).Volunteer Marek (talk) 23:09, 22 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
CNN's programming varies quite a bit. In the USA, its international coverage is limited and pitiful. In Europe, it's much more like the BBC, with a wide array of coverage of international affairs. I would even say the European coverage is more "objective", like BBC's. -- BullRangifer (talk) PingMe 23:15, 22 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Agree about CNN, BR. I have CNN Alerts on my Mac. Also use AP - habit, I guess. It still all boils down to $$$. The networks will broadcast to attract/cater to whatever brings them the most cash - kinda like our politicians. Atsme📞📧 23:24, 22 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
BullRangifer - for your RS stash, read Pew Research Center's Journalism & Media, and Science News which states: But despite this similar-stripe clumping, Fox News and The New York Times are relatively close to each other, suggesting that, as far as quoting patterns go, these two mainstream outlets aren’t all that different. Hey - I didn't write it...Atsme📞📧 00:03, 23 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
This is interesting reading. One thing that stood out to me from Otero's chart is that the right (conservative) side of the red rectangle (the least trustworthy sources) contains numerous sources that I hear about regularly, whereas the left (liberal) side of the same group contains sources I personally have never heard of. Maybe that means that right-wing propagandists have a lot more reach, or maybe it just means I don't get around enough. The Pew source is really focused on what the various audiences think, as opposed to making a judgment of its own, but it very much documents the regrettable separation into tribes in the US. But as much as I like science, the Science News piece strikes me as a bit silly. It's just the results of a computer search for various terms, sans any human commonsense interpretation, so it has elements of garbage-in/garbage-out. And that is likely the reason why that quote says what it says. --Tryptofish (talk) 00:18, 23 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
You said ...or maybe it just means I don't get around enough. Send me the address to your retirement home and I'll send you an Uber...my gift to you. Atsme📞📧 19:12, 23 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
CNN International is quite boring – at least it was when I traveled heavily. It is popular because it was first, and because hotels didn’t have more than a few channels in older days. (Yikes I’m getting old.) It was like reading the Straits Times in earlier days in the areas around Singapore, which then consisted basically of stories from the NYT. Defining a country’s politics has become difficult. Shanghai, Hong Kong (including mainland Kowloon), Hainan, and several other coastal areas are more capitalist than the US. The most historically communist “city” in my memory, may have been Jamestown in colonial Virginia (the common kettle and I don’t mean that nutcase in Jonestown). It’s important to realize that the center is not a point. If it were, there would only be one person in the center. The center is fairly wide as so many people have sympathies with parts of differing philosophies and aims. What it comes down to, in my mind, is that the right/left/liberal/conservative terms should be avoided unless something/someone is outside of that wide area. Thus far, I think we’re doing that. Obviously, someone outside of that center area will feel differently, as Einstein tells us, everything is relative. O3000 (talk) 00:23, 23 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
In physics, it's relativity. In humanity, it's perspective; therefore, what's relative depends on one's perspective. Atsme📞📧 02:17, 23 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Atsme, that's perfect. Perhaps you should edit science articles for a few months? SPECIFICOtalk 02:20, 23 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Your timing is perfect!! I was just going to invite you to help out at NPP and AfC where you'll be able to explore more of your editing potential. We could use the help! Atsme📞📧 02:38, 23 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for sharing the links to the "bias chart" and the Pew study. I have a couple of observations about them—recognizing, of course, that neither is the last word on the subject.
The chart suggests that Wikipedian discourse about media bias is severely skewed. We frequently hear editors mis-cast centrist/highly reliable sources (e.g. NPR, PBS, Associated Press, NBC/ABC/CBS) as "liberal" or liberal-leaning, and we also frequently have editors pushing to treat hyper-partisan/low-quality sources like Fox News, the Daily Caller, or the Washington Times as reliable sources. (In contrast, I don't recall anyone seriously pushing to treat the "red-box" liberal sources as reliable). These categorizations come from the chart, not my own opinion, but they suggest that Wikipedia has a significant conservative bias in its sourcing. Our Overton window, or our center of gravity, when it comes to sourcing discussions is right-skewed; we treat centrist sources as inherently "liberal", and treat low-quality right-wing sources as potentially reliable.
The Pew study, as others have pointed out, doesn't directly address media bias, but rather explores where people of various political leanings tend to get their news. Their findings are striking. Liberals seem to get their news from a relatively wide range of sources, nearly all of which score highly for centrism/reliability on the chart from the previous paragraph. In contrast, conservatives get their news from Fox News, Glenn Beck, Sean Hannity, and Rush Limbaugh. Now, three of those four do not even purvey news. Limbaugh, Hannity, and Beck present themselves (when pushed) as opinion commentators, and don't pretend to any standard of objectivity, factual accuracy, or journalistic ethics (the recent flap about Hannity and Michael Cohen being one case in point). These sources routinely transmit conspiracy theories and damagingly inaccurate partisan nonsense. The fourth source (Fox News), while more mainstream, has a relatively poor reputation when it comes to both neutrality and accuracy. Does it seem concerning that right-leaning media consumers rely heavily or totally on such sources? It also explains some recurring conflicts on Wikipedia, if the information sources trusted by right-leaning editors conflict with Wikipedia's preference for accurate, neutral content. MastCellTalk 19:53, 23 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Those are very interesting points. I'm glad to see that I appear not to be the only editor who is largely unfamiliar with the "red box liberal" sources! But I'm interested in your broader point about the possible bias of Wikipedia. Like you, I have seen editors miscast centrist sources as liberal. But of course there have also been lots of discussions about Fox News being a reliable source for sport scores but not for politics or current events. So I tend to think, but I could very easily be wrong, that although there are outspoken editors who betray a US-conservative POV in discussions, by the time consensus is reached, at least at high-traffic pages, the consensus tends to balance out and the actual content that readers see does not skew consistently one way or the other. I'm not denying that it skews all over the place, and I dislike recentism, but I'm just saying that there might not be a consistent direction of that skew. --Tryptofish (talk) 20:21, 23 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Tryp, you've already seen the following link, and I'm thinking I already tormented Drmies with it in an unrelated discussion.[FBDB] What I can't remember is if I shared it with MastCell, (blaming the seahorse part of my brain), so I'm posting again: Science News: But despite this similar-stripe clumping, Fox News and The New York Times are relatively close to each other,suggesting that, as far as quoting patterns go, these two mainstream outlets aren’t all that different. Hey - we go by what RS say, right? It doesn't get any more reliable than Science News. Welcome to the world of politics! 😉 Atsme📞📧 21:18, 23 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Since you partly directed that to me, I feel the need to point out that I said the first time that I think the quote should not be taken seriously. --Tryptofish (talk) 21:28, 23 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Don't tell me you're doubting Science News!!?? Atsme📞📧 21:37, 23 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I'm doubting Science News. (Yeah, I know, you told me not to tell you that!) Of course, that's not the same thing as doubting science. --Tryptofish (talk) 22:31, 23 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
ScienceNews contains decent news coverage, but let's be clear, Atsme: you're quoting a blog published by ScienceNews. I mean, we're not exactly talking about the acme of reliable sourcing. You can't complain about "cherrypicked opinion journalism" and then turn around and cite cherrypicked opinion journalism to support your viewpoint. (Well, you can, but you shouldn't). MastCellTalk 22:40, 23 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
How can you doubt something called Science News? That would be like doubting Scientology or Creationism. I don’t like it when I become sarcastic. But, the sources used by some editors to try to bring a POV into an encyclopedia are an enormous timesink. O3000 (talk) 22:52, 23 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
MastCell, hopefully you know I was joking, right? Atsme📞📧 02:38, 24 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Not really. I mean, I could tell you were joking about the title (ScienceNews), but you seemed serious in asserting that the blog piece provided meaningful support for your argument about FoxNews et al. If you weren't, I apologize for misunderstanding. MastCellTalk 17:34, 24 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
(edit conflict) MastCell, yes I was being lightheartedly facetious, and no apology necessary. I have learned quite a bit from our discussions, and thank you for your time, patience and consideration. Now that I'm long past the age of knowing it all, I've discovered that learning new things (the easy way) can be very rewarding...not saying you're easy 🦍 or that there's anything wrong with that...😊 Atsme📞📧 18:31, 24 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
"The Home-Made Barnstar is awarded to people who do a lot of work in difficult areas and do it well." Factchecker_atyourservice 18:10, 27 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Three little birds
Pitch by my doorstep
Singing sweet songs
Of melodies pure and true
Saying, this is my message to you
Keep it up and keep citing great sources, Atsme. It's going to be alright. Factchecker_atyourservice 18:10, 27 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Awwww...thank you, FCAYS! I truly enjoy and appreciate homemade. Atsme📞📧 18:54, 27 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Kinda spooky, but The_Dance_(song) started playing in the background on Alexa while I was reading the lyrics to the song you wrote. 👻 Atsme📞📧 02:42, 28 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Hah, cool. Sorry for my weird comment. I was a little shell shocked. Factchecker_atyourservice 04:27, 28 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I didn't find your comment the least bit weird - picked up on it right away. Weird was when that song just started playing on Alexa. She sometimes responds to audio from the 📺 so that's probably what happened. BTW, I thought the material you added was very well-written, encyclopedic, all cited to quality RS and very informative. Unfortunately, it didn't take long for it to be reverted...and for no good reason. One of the things I dislike most about the 1RR/Consensus needed to restore restriction is that it hinders article expansion and improvement. Our poor overworked admins don't have the time to get bogged down in content disputes, and I imagine they get pretty frustrated themselves having to shuffle through daily behavioral disputes, vandals, socks, trolls, etc. I'd sure hate to see you get blocked over some silly dispute, so please don't sample the bait. I know you put a lot of work into the material you added this evening - it belongs in the article. Maybe if you present small sections on the TP first, they might be more receptive? It can always be expanded over time. Atsme📞📧 00:16, April 28, 2018
That article is too much of a mess of tendentious editors and administrators, I'm not enduring months of abuse through a painstaking hand-holding process where in reality I am simply waiting for editors to come to terms with their emotions about Trump so that they can finally allow RS's to be heard saying something non-negative about him. I didn't even vote for the guy but behavior by WP editors since his election has been . . . wait for it . . . deplorable.
Actually I was kind of hoping others would be willing to endure the abuse on my behalf. Hint hint.
WP is not supposed to be an adversarial courtroom process where a baseline of POV editors attempt to defeat 5-pillars compliance via shouted nonsense and !votes.
Also, just to note, it was very long but it was the same problem I faced with my earlier comments. If I tried to focus on a small issue, it would be claimed I was missing the big picture (as Bull in fact repeatedly claimed with his Infowars nonsense.
Likewise, if I tried to hit the macro issues, as I did in my comments, I was criticized for the comments being too long.
Same deal with the research and prose I wrote. If I hadn't included soooooo many citations, it would have been claimed I wasn't fairly representing the field of reporting and commentary. But since I did cover the field in detail, the resulting content is allegedly too long. Factchecker_atyourservice 17:38, 28 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Also just to nitpick, because I'm so darn good at it, technically WP:FRINGE refers only to sources, not every context in which there is a majority/minority... while GOP is indeed the majority on that intel committee, their report didn't change a lot of minds and got quite a bit of flak in the press.
More to the point, don't get sucked in to the idea that mainstream published viewpoints are ever FRINGE. That's a line of BS that has been invented to try to exclude conservative sources and commentary simply for not being the majority view. I blame Bull. Factchecker_atyourservice 18:29, 28 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
You lil nitpicker, you 😊! I was actually pulling his leg by mentioning WP:FRINGE. It never hurt anyone to get slapped with a logical fallacy once in a while, but on a more serious note, I think we should all be concerned over any attempt to stifle media for having opposing views. I'm of the mind that having 100% centrist views isn't the answer, either - all significant views should be included. I cringe over the criticism that right leaning RS are not reliable based on the views of a few pundits that fill the bulk of the later primetime slots. I tend to get a bit fidgety when I see news networks that are too closely aligned with multiple levels of government (particularly involving close family members in top positions in government and vice versa), especially if it includes intelligence agencies (DOJ). News can easily become spoonfed propaganda (and it's legal). That's what opens doors to state-run media...just ask anyone from mainland China, North Korea, Libya, Cuba, Uzbekistan, or Syria how they like it. Some Americans tend to be too trusting of/dependent on government, which as history has proven, can lead to complacency. For years, I played the role of intermediary (of sorts) between government agencies needing public awareness programming via public television broadcast. My focus at that time was on environmental/conservation issues so it basically boiled down to private advocacies fighting the encroachment of big government and vice versa. You could say politics was involved...deeply involved. 😳 Atsme📞📧 19:16, 28 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Couldn't agree more, I'll reply to this later but in the meantime I object you calling my nitpicking "little". It's actually quite large, one of the biggest—that is what a lot of people are saying, I can tell you.Factchecker_atyourservice 20:00, 28 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
File:AdRufHand.jpgA human hand, used in measuring the height of a horse. This photo is not meant to be representative of Trump's hand. Atsme📞📧 22:31, 28 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]Bait-click, bait box, trolling, don't take the bait. Atsme📞📧 01:45, 29 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Alrighty then...go ahead and upload a life size picture of your hands photoshopped beside a life size picture of Trump's hands. It's the only way we can accurately judge the size of your nitpicking. Atsme📞📧 20:42, 28 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Hands? But I . . . never mind. Seriously though, what I was going to say was, it was long the standard on WP that articles would allow everybody to have their little say, so long as each view was, within reason, published in RS. Over time that morphed into the idea that conservative views should be minimized because they're not majority views—still later that morphed into the idea that conservative ideas should always be ignored. And at some point people seriously began to make arguments like that criticism is important and well-sourced but it can't be included because the article would then be too long! Because nothing helps inform the reader like copy pasting from a press release and a couple of friendly opinion sources and then insisting everything else is "unreliable" or "non-notable".
The below is a joke, but it's funny because it's true:
HISTORY OF WIKIPEDIA
2008 we can reflect all mainstream sources neutrally, but we have to mention that the conservative ones are conservative and possibly include something implying or stating that conservatives are dumb/wrong
2010 we can can reflect all mainstream sources, but we have to name and shame the conservative ones and use weasel words and other techniques to impart suspicion of the view expressed
2012 we cannot source to any conservative sources
2013 we cannot source to The New York Times if it is a conservative writer
2014 we cannot source to The New York Times if it is a liberal writer espousing a view associated with conservatives
2015 we cannot source to The New York Times if it is a liberal writer espousing a view deemed by some to be supportive of Israel or insufficiently progressive
2016 we should not source to The New York Times generally because it is too conservative and supportive of Israel
2017 we should not cite American newspapers in general because they are too conservative and supportive of Israel
2018 F*** YOU, RIGHT WING ZION PIG SCUM, TRUMP IS THE DEVIL
- I think it works the same way in reverse when it's a Dem prez and Congress. Gawd, I hate politics!! Atsme📞📧 22:26, 28 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I almost think that Wikipedia has political articles just for the clicks . . . ;) Factchecker_atyourservice 01:31, 29 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
The page view stats are certainly interesting. Atsme📞📧 01:45, 29 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
When I hear someone asserting, even in jest, that Wikipedia treats US conservatism badly, my first thoughts go to there being a POV-pusher. I have some very strong personal opinions about Trump, and they are no secret, but I try very hard to argue for neutral coverage of him. When there was an April 1 joke about his possible connection to Russia, it was me who was arguing very hard for caution and Atsme who said it was funny so go for it. --Tryptofish (talk) 22:00, 29 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
If I were sure of that, I wouldn't be saying that here. I'm talking about how it comes across. When someone jokes that WP promotes the idea that Trump is the devil, it sounds like they think WP needs to alter how we cover Trump, in a more positive way. I consider Atsme a wiki-friend, and I comment to her from time to time that the discussion on her talk page may lead onlookers to think that she is non-neutral. Like it or not, appearances matter. --Tryptofish (talk) 22:30, 29 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Pleased to meet you Typto. My comments were based on my feelings regarding the way WP has changed in the past 10 years, although I had few conservative views when I began. Once upon a time, I feel pretty sure I could have referenced Wall Street Journal without argument or abuse, and if Theresa May or some other world leader were quoted in Fox, nobody would dispute the quoting of a world leader just because it was Fox (or whatever). Nowadays it seems like the consensus among editors is that not only are right-leaning sources strongly discouraged if not outright forbidden, left leaning sources should be ignored too if they say the wrong things. Moreover, there is a troubling impulse to render partisan narratives as fact simply because they are embraced by such a large proportion of WP editors. Plain confirmation bias and demographics. Factchecker_atyourservice 22:51, 29 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Factchecker_atyourservice - meet Tryptofish...my wiki-friend and mentor of sorts...a punderful inspiration for Wiki-discussions. We are (yes, there are others) a unique bunch who comprise the humor project. It's where we go to maintain our sanity. Atsme📞📧 22:43, 29 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
OK, I hope we are all good now. --Tryptofish (talk) 22:53, 29 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Extremely belated reply: toolbox access for Reflinks
Greetings! Saw your comment about it on User talk:Dispenser/Reflinks#Reflinks bug. Someone else had independently pointed out the issue, and I fixed it (hopefully). Just thought I'd drop you a note anyhows, in case you still want it in the left margin. Cheers, Rotideypoc41352 (talk) 20:05, 28 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Late is better than no reply at all. Thank you, Rotideypoc!! Atsme📞📧 20:48, 28 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Comment
I did see you referred to the Manafort stuff as NOTNEWS and I just wanted to say that my comments have been intended to refer to people who are citing NOTNEWS in this case but have no such concern for anti-Trump stuff that is more weakly sourced. Factchecker_atyourservice 00:17, 5 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
FCAYS - I was hoping my comments were unambiguous as they relate to my concerns across the board regarding noncompliance with NOTNEWS & NPOV. Far too many of the Trump-related articles are based primarily on journalistic opinion, speculation and unsubstantiated allegations - WP is becoming a news org mirror and that concerns me. I don't know what it will take to get admins to enforce NOTNEWS policy retrospectively. I think if they did, it may actually set a more positive direction toward improving/expanding Wikinews, leaving the en.Wikipedia for real encyclopedic information. Atsme📞📧 01:33, 5 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Interleaving
Hey. This edit inserted your comment in the middle of an existing comment, stranding its first line. I'll let you decide where to move it, but it needs to be moved. The guideline is at WP:TPO. ―Mandruss☎ 00:45, 5 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks, Mandruss - fixed, (I think). Atsme📞📧 01:34, 5 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Hang in there
Keep speaking the truth and whatever you do, don't let the gaslighting get to you; you have people behind you and beside you. -- ψλ ● ✉ ✓ 09:03, 8 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the moral support, -- ψλ. It makes me sad that we have to deal with such nonsense. There are far too many instances that go beyond GF content collaboration and trying to get the article right. If you take the gaslighting into consideration, the disruptive behavior appears to be more like soapboxing and POV pushing to further a cause - be it moral or political - and quite frankly, when an editor has that much of a COI, they should not be editing those articles. There’s no other reason for such behavior or for wanting to inundate an article with nothing but unfounded allegations, disinformation and speculation, or worse, obsess over it. Since MelanieN has been spending less time at those articles, and with JFG on wikibreak, things seem to have escalated. I’ve never suggested not including negatives - we include ALL relevant views cited to RS - negative, positive and indifferent - and we also know that contentious statements and derogatory opinions require in-text attribution to the author. Oh, and here’s another uh-oh DS vio that occurred last night. I advised the editor on their TP but they have not self-reverted. It’s just plain disruptive, especially when others are making the effort to do the right thing. Atsme📞📧 14:43, 8 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
And the latest, a disagreement over the numbers of international students allowed, looks of only peripheral consequence. Last I read, less than 3% of college income is derived from international students, and if that is correct, this can easily be made up by cutting back on those preposterous tenured professor salaries and other do nothing admins that sit around screeching about the latest invented injustice to rally behind.--MONGO 16:21, 8 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
It’s ridiculous - but it explains the concern by tenured profs and why it may seem far more important than the reality proves....uhm, POV issue maybe? Atsme📞📧 17:15, 8 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I miss college so much its not funny. I wish I could go back in time and see all my old professors and other students. All I know is the issue at that page is a nonissue and its just one more silly "dig" attempt to make Trump look bad. Most of the time when I read anything form those articles they appear like they were written by extreme partisans.--MONGO 18:15, 8 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
MONGO, do you have a source for the statement that <3% of college income derives from international students? Not a gotcha question; I'm asking because I haven't been able to find reliable statistics on the topic, and universities are notoriously opaque about such things. Let me try to explain why a decrease in international student enrollment is a bad thing for pretty much all of us:
First of all, international students bring money from outside the US into the US, which is generally a Good Thing. The most recent reliable statistics I can find suggest that international students contribute nearly $37 billion to the US economy annually. Fewer international students means less money coming into the US.
Universities are huge job creators, and they create decent jobs with good benefits. The impact of colleges and universities as employers is especially profound in smaller and more rural areas. International students are responsible for about 450,000 jobs in the US ([1]). When international-student enrollment drops, colleges and universities cut job openings and fire people. These job losses will be felt disproportionately by areas that are already disadvantaged in the national job market. Harvard, Stanford, and Columbia will be fine, but smaller colleges in less popular locales are the ones most dependent on foreign enrollment to sustain themselves and the jobs they create.
International students disproportionately enroll in STEM programs, and their presence helps support the existence of such programs. When international enrollment drops, some colleges are forced to cut STEM programs—depriving US citizens of the opportunity for training in fields that are frequently a pathway to a comfortable living.
As for tenured professors, their salaries vary greatly. The average salary for a full-time ranked faculty member at a US university in 2016 was about $80,000/year ([2]), which is certainly a decent living but hardly "preposterous" for someone with an advanced degree in a competitive field. MastCellTalk 18:08, 8 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Why does this "make Trump look bad" - he doesn't like certain foreigners. His policies have reduced the number of foreigners living among our students and their communities. Success. What's not to like? SPECIFICOtalk 18:47, 8 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
As someone recovering from tenured professorship, I can provide first-hand testimony that the salaries are dishearteningly low. To characterize that as overpaid is utter nonsense. And Atsme, I looked at the diff you linked to in your initial reply to WV here. What on earth were you thinking? (Rhetorical question, don't bother answering it.) The paragraph you wanted to revert was about as blandly factual as I could imagine, and to paint it as a DS violation is preposterous. You know me as a wiki-friend, so I hope you can trust my good faith judgment here. There is nothing remotely gaslight-y about disagreeing with you about that. --Tryptofish (talk) 19:26, 8 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Tryp, I'm not the one who erred. Try reading the article DS, the sequence of edits, and the discussion I started on the article TP. Atsme📞📧 03:44, 9 May 2018 (UTC) [reply]
Atsme, you know, after I logged off last night the same thing occurred to me, so my apologies for having overlooked that aspect. But please hear me (even if, per the talk section below, I am perhaps one of the unreasonable with whom it's not possible to reason) when I say that the underlying issue of whether the paragraph should or should not be on the page is absolutely not one of POV. Due weight, maybe. But the idea, on both "sides", that information about those student statistics is in any way anti-Trump is just looking for a fight where no fight should exist. Wikipedia simply is not capable of getting current events in US politics just right, until some time has passed, so editors should settle for good enough. What I'm seeing are political wars being fought in proxy over who can demonstrate the superior ability to include or exclude content that is only partisan when editors want to construe it as such. For the most part, sensible editors just stay out of it, and a lot of those who stay in it will eventually get topic-banned. I know you and like you too much to want to see you get caught in that. --Tryptofish (talk) 18:21, 9 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Tryp, you have collaborated with me on a few different topics, and I think (hope) you know that I'm too much of a pragmatist to let emotions shadow my writing...liken it to the way doctors/surgeons are able to suppress their feelings in order to do their work - it's not because they don't have feelings, if you get my drift...so if, Lord forbid, I'm found guilty of disruption, it won't be for that reason...I'm neither pro nor anti anyone when it comes to my writing, especially when it's an encyclopedia (chalk it up to many years of training/doing). You'll also notice that I didn't say it was a POV issue, I questioned if it could be. Keep in mind that WEIGHT & BALANCE are part of our NPOV policy - Neutrality assigns weight to viewpoints in proportion to their prominence. - therefore, viewpoints are indeed a POV, and if the material weighs too heavily one way, I call it POV, don't you? - at least, that's my perspective, and it has nothing to do with any of the preconceived notions that it must be the result of partisanship. It may well be that way for those opposing what I've done or may be proposing to do, but it certainly isn 't partisanship on my part, and my edits and commentary support what I'm saying. Having said that, I want you to know that I understand and appreciate your concerns - your input makes me stop and reevaluate to make sure I haven't made a terrible mistake. I'll be the first to admit when I'm wrong. You also provide a different perspective and a broader view of things that I often don't consider because I'm focused on grammar, relevance, basic copy-editing/reviewing/accuracy/sources, etc. Tryp, do you remember my efforts to launch Project Accuracy? I still believe it would have been a net positive for the project. Anyway, I've filed your message into my caution cabinet and thank you for looking out for me. Atsme📞📧 19:45, 9 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks so much, and that's a good answer all around. I agree that you, yourself, never took any of those positions. (In fact, the more that I see, the more that I am confident that you are not being partisan.) But of course other editors did take those positions, and there's a nasty way of stuff rubbing off on those nearby. Appearances and all that. About weight, sometimes something can be undue weight without it tending in any direction with respect to POV. Too much information, as opposed to giving preference to one side or the other. Anyway, hang in there! --Tryptofish (talk) 20:00, 9 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
If you're one of the rarest of the rare and was a tenured professor and made less than the median income for your region then you got tenure at the wrong place and we'll that's your own fault. Of course a former tenured professor would naturally think that the edit in question is pertenient to the coatrack storyline of "How mean nasty Trump has simply ruined everything".--MONGO 20:05, 8 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, and I smell bad too. --Tryptofish (talk) 20:54, 8 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
This conclusion is so bizarre that it bears repetition: The policy is brilliant. It reduces the number of aliens among us, deprives educational institutions of cash flow, threatens the job security and wellbeing of the effete resistance that has taken over our campuses, and prevents rural white folks from getting to know peers from other lands and cultures. How could this be anything other than a great success for the Trump Administration and its base and backers? Ruined what? He's only "ruined" everything detestable in modern American life from a certain POV. SPECIFICOtalk 20:19, 8 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Wait, no. I see what you're doing, but I want to go back to what MONGO said. MONGO (and Atsme), do you believe that $80,000/year is a "preposterous" salary for someone with an advanced degree and outstanding competence in a specialized field (as demonstrated by securing a rare and highly competitive tenure-track position)? MastCellTalk 23:42, 8 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Any paycheck is preposterous for immigrants, scholars, city-dwellers, civil servants, and racial or lifestyle minorities. Isn't that the proposition that's on the table? (my last comment here) SPECIFICOtalk 23:56, 8 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Apologies for butting in here, this is actually a very interesting conversation. MastCell I am curious about the answer to your question as well, but I would also like to hear what rate you would find reasonable? PackMecEng (talk) 00:41, 9 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
MastCell, please refer to my explanations at the article TP - Presidency of Donald Trump#Declines in foreign enrollments - which clarifies my position, and the DS vio which resulted in the editor self-reverting as soon as she became aware. I acted responsibly, politely and the reasons I gave fully support my position. I think you'll find that I agree with you for the most part but disagree that it belongs in that article or that the Trump admin immigration policies should be portrayed as the primary reason. The 2016 comprehensive survey does not belong in the article - predates Trump admin - and neither does the snap shot preliminary survey or any of the speculation that accompanies it...and RS support my belief and have provided some of the contributing variables, including a drop in domestic enrollments. The way the original edit was worded was very one-sided (POV) and did not include the substantial variables that resulted in the declines. I suggested finding alternative articles where the information would actually prove helpful. As for salaries...I found this interesting. Atsme📞📧 03:44, 9 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
About that piece about the 10 highest paid, it's important to realize that those are outliers. One of the 10 is a Nobel Prize winner, and the other nine are all in areas where their primary gig, as a physician in a few cases and as a businessperson in all the others, is far more high paying than is being a professor, so they can command much higher salaries than their fellow department members because they could walk if they didn't like their pay. At US medical schools, it's typical for associate professors with MD degrees to be paid double to triple what full professors with PhDs get. --Tryptofish (talk) 18:31, 9 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Even liberal institutions like those of higher learning pay based on going market rate. And even there salaries are often negotiated, not set in stone. Since engineers can find jobs outside academia its no shock that they may make more than someone teaching about quilting. Perhaps I was being droll when I said "preposterous" in my mentioning about tenured or any teaching salary rate, and its not surprising others would take that as an all or nothing comment to be dissected endlessly. In answer to @MastCell:, salary is what it is and if indeed the tenured teaching ranks were filled with so many disgruntled and underpaid professors we would likely see a higher pre retirement age departure rate than we do. The lower rank adjunct instructors etc. do make abysmal salaries and in most cases they do leave mainly cause they cannot afford to keep teaching. But 80K is well above the 50K average national median salary. If that 80K is made in NYC, San Fran, Wash, DC or similar extremely high priced areas, well then that's lousy pay. If made in Ames, IA, or Lincoln, NE then its excellent pay. As far as the compensation based on years of education, so what? Higher educational attainment is not always in correlation to what the salary will be and college professors are not making multimillion dollar decisions that impact the jobs of dozens to hundreds of others below them. I have a masters degree and once managed 65 people not even 15 years ago and was paid 45K for constant 60 hour weeks and getting calls all the time day and night, but I did it because I liked the job. College professors aren't doing "dirty" jobs, nor are they working in extreme conditions that might warrant hazard duty pay like fighting a forest fire, or climbing wind towers. But most fire fighters do what they do cause they like it...that's why I did it cause I sure didn't get rich doing it.--MONGO 13:28, 9 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I think firefighters are underpaid, as are police and, above all, public school teachers. One of the reasons that "underpaid professors" often do not take early retirement is because they cannot afford to. Just FYI, I was not referring to my own salary above, but to what I observed in the profession as a whole. Most tenured faculty get tenure at the "wrong place", because the job market does not allow easily moving from one institution to another, so most take what they can get, and yes, they typically do it because they like doing it. (In my own case, it was definitely the "wrong" institution, but in a different way. I sued them and won a six-figure settlement.) The budgetary effect of getting fewer international students at most universities depends upon the budget model that the individual university has. Those that derive most of their cash flow from endowments and external grants won't see any significant budget effect, just a regrettable loss of diversity. Those that derive most of their cash flow from tuition will just raise tuition, but not change staff salaries. The dirty little secret about academic tenure in the US is that it has almost nothing to do with academic freedom. By giving tenure, schools can retain talented faculty whose abilities would otherwise garner much higher salaries outside academia. And the effect of that is to keep student tuition from getting even higher than it is. In other words, the primary function of tenure is to keep students costs lower (relatively, of course!) than they would otherwise be. --Tryptofish (talk) 18:48, 9 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I appreciate MONGO bringing a much broader perspective to the discussion....I never gave much thought to pay scales prior to this discussion, so it was enlightening. Gee, Tryp - I thought you'd be telling us which of the top ten is you. 😉 Atsme📞📧 19:57, 9 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I'm the one with those scales! --Tryptofish (talk) 20:03, 9 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
That list can't possibly be correct. I know professors who make more money than some of the top 10 people identified there. Specifically, quite a few academic physicians earn >$500,000 annually. I suspect many faculty in highly-reimbursable fields (surgical subspecialties, interventional cardiology, dermatology, etc.) earn more than some of the people on that list. (Bearing in mind that their salaries as academic physicians are generally lower than what they would earn in private practice). Of course, it's chump change compared to a Division I football coach, but hey, this is America. MastCellTalk 00:06, 11 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
"liberal institutions like those of higher learning..."
Was this meant for MONGO's page? PackMecEng (talk) 13:58, 9 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Seemed like this was under discussion here. I'm surprised to see such institutions described as "liberal" in any sense. SPECIFICOtalk 14:54, 9 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I mean we do have a whole article on the subject Liberal bias in academia, I thought it was commonly known that as a whole colleges in the USA have a general liberal bias. As to why that would be, I am not going to touch that with a 10ft pole. PackMecEng (talk) 15:22, 9 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Its not possible to reason with the unreasonable but kudos for trying.--MONGO 15:31, 9 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I mean I do know that but it is absurd to push it to the point of higher learning institutes are automatically liberal/political Galobtter (pingó mió) 16:21, 9 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Sounds like there's a POV fork ready for the scouring pad. SPECIFICOtalk 17:31, 9 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
But but but they have sources that say those things! WP:PRESERVE! and stuff and things... PackMecEng (talk) 17:43, 9 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I’m confused over the question...???? Atsme📞📧 16:08, 9 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
So is the person who posed it. There is no cure so not wise to get our hopes up.--MONGO 16:18, 9 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I mean if being liberal means having higher learning..I'll take that :) Galobtter (pingó mió) 16:20, 9 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
It doesn't. Some normal people resume normal lives and thinking after they get away from fantasy island and have to like pay taxes and keep the picket fence standing.--MONGO 16:27, 9 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Response to Mongo's comment above "Even liberal institutions like those of higher learning pay based on going market rate." Galobtter (pingó mió) 16:19, 9 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
O mercy. The tag "liberal institutions" is confused and insupportable in almost any sense of those 2 words. If you would ask me, as a neutral observer of academia I would call it "feudal" rather than "liberal" and I rather think "institution" entails misplaced concreteness, notwithstanding all the concrete bricks and limestone. Its rather more a cultural artifact, and one that's routinely evolving and rather a valuable asset to man and beast. SPECIFICOtalk 17:36, 9 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Children, please...your hostess happens to be tri-partisan...liken it to (see this diff), to which the TP host responded by adding this. I duplicated it here as a treat for all the children. Atsme📞📧 17:49, 9 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Can it support 275 pounds of ornery MONGO? If so I want one in blue.--MONGO 17:56, 9 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
For clarity...my references to trisexual and tripartisan means (jokingly) I'll tri (try) anything once. *lol* It probably works better spoken than it does written. Atsme📞📧 19:13, 10 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, editing here can be very trying. --Tryptofish (talk) 19:17, 10 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Not here, as in here on my TP, but here as in WP articles...right? I hope. Wouldn't want any guest on my TP to feel tried...although we can always leave that door open if desired. As I said before, I'll try anything once. 😂 Atsme📞📧 19:35, 10 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Right. (Although you attracted quite a crowd to this thread!) --Tryptofish (talk) 19:45, 10 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
**Recycle bin - rock, scissors, PAPER**
It's free education - and it's quality where it really counts. It makes me happy to partake in intelligent social intercourse - beats the hell out of commune-living in the late 60s which was a totally different kind of social intercourse. I remember back in the day when my folks had to pay (and pay) to get us a full set of Britannica's - and there was no arguing over the contents. I hope our readers appreciate the brilliant blend of perspectives they're getting when they read a WP article. How can anyone worth their salt not appreciate what goes into it? Just look at the many brilliant editors we have giving generously of their time. Atsme📞📧 20:12, 10 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry to hear your folks shelled out for a biased source like that. SPECIFICOtalk 20:27, 10 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
They didn't go to waste...I made good use of them. Atsme📞📧 21:15, 10 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
That is lovely. Who was the President then? I'm guessing not Trump. SPECIFICOtalk 22:43, 10 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Some actor...or does that refer to all presidents? Atsme📞📧 23:13, 10 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
How did you know the picture is of Terry Thomas in drag sporting a 🦊 fur to divert attention away from his mink 🧥 business? Atsme📞📧 00:56, 11 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Dick Pounds - Moe Lester: NPOV or Coatrack
Please restrict your comments in this section to the hypothetical 2 paragraphs near the top of the page to this section...and have fun. Atsme📞📧 05:09, 11 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Now is Mr. Pounds a Democrat or Republican? That will make a significant impact on if they are actually a lunatic charlatan or if they speak the Truth™ and how well it conforms to NPOV. PackMecEng (talk) 15:36, 11 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Ha! No, no, no...charlatans come in all flavors. The question applies more to real science, not political science. Atsme📞📧 15:41, 11 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah just a little fun there . But it is pretty clear by the almost exaggerated writing is that 1 conforms with the ideas of NPOV. The upsetting part is 2 is not far off from what I have seen in places. PackMecEng (talk) 15:44, 11 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Neither, I'm afraid. 2, is, of course, a coatrack. But, if (as I suspect is intended) consensus in the scientific community is that chemtrails do not cause aluminum strips to fall to earth, then 1 isn't NPOV either. "recieved mixed reviews" (misspelled, by the way - "I before E except after C ...") does not cover it. The scientific consensus needs to be mentioned prominently and early, such as in the second sentence as 2 does. --GRuban (talk) 16:26, 11 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
GRuban....BZZZZZT for reading something into the example that isn't there, re: the validity of the claim 😆. One argument against such reasoning is typically that we cite what RS say (the examples are humorously hypothetically correct, including RS). I fixed the first transposition, the 2nd instance was spelled correctly...apologies...I'm working a bit handicapped right now - laughter is the best medicine. Atsme📞📧 17:51, 11 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I think that it's obvious that #2 is flawed beyond repair. Almost an attack page. Things that would need fixing in #1 are: "received mixed reviews but had wide appeal" needs to be attributed to a source, as would "debunking Pounds' theory". These are judgments/opinions that need to be made clearer. Were all the reviews "mixed", or were some very positive and some very negative? How "wide" is "wide appeal"? Was it a debunking in the opinion of the codpiece engineers, or was their position adopted by a wider preponderance of sources? And can I get a job as a codpiece engineer? --Tryptofish (talk) 18:39, 11 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Designer codpieces by Dick Freelove LLC
As most would’ve guessed, Tryp, you made 100 on your exam! As for the codpiece question, I’m not touching that with a 10 foot fishing pole. 😂 Atsme📞📧 01:09, 12 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Yippee! When you go fishing, you never know what you will catch! --Tryptofish (talk) 16:37, 12 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Hi watching the changes are just incredible. What a genius you are. I am blown away and so grateful. I just can't believe how fantastic your work is. I did not think anyone would help me like this!!! I am glad the Greece picture went down as it was when he was very skinny and does not look like him really and I don't want it back but maybe at some point I can learn about uploading any of the photos I tried before. I think you might be still working on the page and just again anything I can do to say thank you I will. Well you have brightened up my day, thats for sure very best wishes, and Im sure Dad is shouting "Thank You Mate", from upstairs or downstairs!!! kareenzaKareenza (talk) 04:29, 14 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
You are quite welcome, Kareenza, and saying thank you was more than enough - it wasn't even necessary. I found the story quite compelling. I'll be working on it little by little as time progresses. Because of your WP:COI, any suggestions you have should be discussed on the article TP. If you want to get my attention, you can simply WP:PING me when you comment. You are welcome to come here as well but I prefer to keep article discussions on the article TP. With regards to your photos, click on this link and read the email forms you need to submit to permissions when you upload the images. If what you have are snapshots taken by a family member or friend, then just get him/her to sign-off as the photographer who has agreed to release the images under a CC-BY-SA 4.0 license. Also keep in mind that any work before 1978 that was published without a copyright notice fell into the public domain. Let me know if you need help uploading or have any further questions. Cheers!! Atsme📞📧 04:50, 14 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you oh mighty one! all my photos are before 1978. If you get any time can you see the photos that were taken down they are all before 1978, but when I google some of them they are on google images with a daily mail caption as two are from my article that I wrote for them and I have copyright, so im not sure what to do there, these are four pics they deleted on wiki commons that I uploaded last week, i can choose many others from before 78 without copyright. Is there any way when this is finished that you would help me upload them, I am terrified as it started all the problems but in the end it was for the best thing as I got you!Sorry to be really thick but how do i post on article TP? God I am a dinasour!!! kareenzaKareenza (talk) 05:08, 14 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
😂 You're too funny with the "mighty one". Ok, scan the photos you have so you'll have clean scans. Get them into your computer, go to your user page, and upload them using the upload file feature located under Tools in the left margin of your user page. During the upload, you'll need the approximate dates the images were taken, and check Public Domain as the license you're uploading under. Atsme📞📧 05:50, 14 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Hello i dont know how to thank you for everything. I had not really realised how much you had battled and stood up for this from the beginning and I thank you from the bottom of my heart. I think others got involved unnecessarily and being naive i believed everything i was told. The Guardian sent me the copy of the obit if that would help. I have only just seen your kind message. Rehman came on board re photos he is a human dynamo like you!! He contacted the pics editor at the Mail re copyright on article and pics, they emailed him straight back that I have full ownership and copyright. I would like my step mum roz to have pics that she wants uploaded as she is very ill and wants to see the page before she gets much more ill. I have a release form to sign. It has been said that I was missled by someone in beginning, i am a bit traumatised by that whole bus and thought i was being helped but wasnt. My own stupid fault. If you have time would you stay with this till completion? Rehman is fixing up things wikimedia side. I feel very blessed to have you both and i probably didnt help myself but was ignorant about what people were saying and had started to give up but I think dad has a place in history and he and the rest of our family believe me have paid for his crimes one way or another. It would be good to show roz now in her eighties the old days and memories. So oh mighty one, if i can do anything please shout. Dads other best friend was getaway grand prix ecclestone driver Roy James who was a big part of our lives and in an article I have and a pic with dad and gt train robbers called Driven to Crime. Oh well better go before you fall asleep during this monologue. Thank you for rescuing me, not often i get a dude on a white horse to charge in, ps dont disappear :) kareenzaKareenza (talk) 00:33, 18 May 2018 (UTC) Kareenza (talk) 00:33, 18 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry I missed your message.
I noticed that I received a notification from you over the weekend, but when I went to check the message today it had been "suppressed". It may have had something to do with the discussion I was having with a few editors, who seemed to be under the impression that things like "discretionary sanctions" and "active arbitration remedies" were something that applies to other people. I decided to walk away before things got really nasty. Mr. Daniel Plainview (talk) 14:41, 14 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
It's all about knowing what to wear going in Daniel. Atsme📞📧 04:34, 15 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
You messed up my comment now please fix it
In hatting my comment you screwed it up so now the signature won't display correctly. Please fix this and don't go around hatting my comments Factchecker_atyourservice 16:39, 15 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
FCAYS, FWIW, I have noticed that friends are much nicer to have than enemies on Wikipedia. This is especially true if you are not in compliance with what looks to be a quite homogenous environment of thought and groupthink with very little diversity. Mr. Daniel Plainview (talk) 16:44, 15 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Since our friendship revolves around editing WP I'm sure she can appreciate that I don't want to do a bunch of work tracking down relevant sources and typing up quotes only to have them instantly thrown in a box by another editor. Factchecker_atyourservice 16:59, 15 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I don't see how this edit screwed up your sig, Factchecker_atyourservice. For the record, I hatted 2 discussions (including my own comments) because when JFG setup the survey, he purposely added a section for Discussion on North Korea status - per this diff. I have no problem with you moving the discussions to the appropriate section, but first get approval from the other editors involved. It just makes for a bad RfC when discussions distract from the iVotes. Atsme📞📧 17:12, 15 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
You can see the formatting issue in this diff. When I attempted to add the comment to the other section, as you were apparently requesting, I could not get a copy/paste to render properly, and then re-signing it repeatedly with 4 tildes also failed to produce the expected formatting, suggesting an unclosed tag or other issue somewhere.
I didn't have any interest in spending a lot of time trying to find the formatting issue so I just reverted. Factchecker_atyourservice 17:33, 15 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Simple fix for the formatting issue - there was a space before your sig which ended up on a new line - I removed the space, and all is well. Atsme📞📧 17:51, 15 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry Atsme, my plan was to just log in and post these one or two comments and then log off but then I found myself scratching my head over the formatting issue when I really wanted to log off and... well it was all downhill from there. Factchecker_atyourservice 19:18, 15 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Lol. If you ever see me editing for 36 hours straight, you can safely assume I found a steely knife... Factchecker_atyourservice 19:26, 15 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Just don't kill the beast. --Tryptofish (talk) 19:28, 15 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
It has been well-established by a Los Angeles-based team of cultural anthropologists that it is impossible to do this (but fun to try). Factchecker_atyourservice 19:10, 17 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I'm afraid this may take me too far out on a limb but...what beast? Is this kinda like a Louie Louie interpretation of lyrics? Atsme📞📧 21:38, 17 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Lyrics to Hotel California include: "They stab it with their steely knives, but they just can't kill the beast." --Tryptofish (talk) 22:53, 17 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Tryp, I can ask a friend/colleague (who has scored music for me in the past and toured/wrote music for Henley)...if it's something you really, really want to know...really, really. Atsme📞📧 20:43, 18 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks, that's entirely up to you. I'm just asking informally, so please don't feel any need to go out of your way for it. (Maybe Shatner can find the answer via something telepathic?) But something I really, really don't understand is what you mean by your "beast" question. Obviously, my answer took you too literally. --Tryptofish (talk) 20:49, 18 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
😂 - the lyrics:
Mirrors on the ceiling,
The pink champagne on ice
And she said, 'we are all just prisoners here, of our own device'
And in the master's chambers,
They gathered for the feast
They stab it with their steely knives,
But they just can't kill the beast
I don't think it has anything to do with Don's "conservation wave" (wave as in tidal wave) - some celebs have to find causes because it's free publicity. I'm thinking "master's chambers" and "mirrors on the ceiling" are dead giveaways. Have you forgotten all you've learned from the 60s vs the short time you've been in that "home", my wiki friend? 😂 ❤️ Atsme📞📧 21:26, 18 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I thought the mirrors were on the ceiling in the room where "she" is, but the master's chambers were other rooms in the Hotel, where the feast was. And the beast was whatever was on the table for the feast. I've forgotten a lot, but I can't remember what it was that I forgot. I still don't know what you were asking about the beast – ? Were you suggesting a phallic interpretation of the knives? --Tryptofish (talk) 21:55, 18 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
😂 I'm not going to say what I was thinking...look at the top of this page in edit view and let your imagination run wild...as long as it doesn't affect your health. Make sure there's a defib nearby. Atsme📞📧 22:06, 18 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I'd rather look at the ceiling. I'm beginning to think that you are smoking something from the 60s. --Tryptofish (talk) 22:11, 18 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I don't smoke...and when I suggested looking at the top of this page, I wasn't referring to the ceiling...but if it makes you happy, try it...you'll like it. Atsme📞📧 22:34, 18 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Must be second-hand smoke. You've actually got a SMirC-stoned – my, you've been busy! --Tryptofish (talk) 22:37, 18 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Excuse me, Mr. Fish Professor Tryp...it is Friday at the hour most choose to be happy...and that's exactly what I'm being...after eye surgery 1-1/2 wks ago...and I prefer to look at the brighter side of life although these dilation drops make things too f-ing bright. There comes a time when people actually prefer to see happy things (despite their handicaps, even when they're sober) with newfound balls I never knew I had, but none of it bothers me. Tomorrow is another day.Atsme📞📧 23:14, 18 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
We haven't had that spirit here since 1969. I didn't know about the eye surgery – my best wishes on that. --Tryptofish (talk) 23:18, 18 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Atsme, you are a viper, and because I don't want to die of snakebite, even though I am also a viper and in theory might have some kind of viper-related immunity, I have implemented sources-talk in my latest comment. That said, I never appreciate people using pejoratives en gross when they could just be real specific with @pings so that comment you linked is upsetting. Factchecker_atyourservice 23:46, 18 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I guess that means something...unfortunately I don't know what you're referring to exactly...so I'm thinking it's because I support the POV that adheres to NPOV, and that doesn't fully support your POV. Sad...but I wish you well, nonetheless. Atsme📞📧 02:07, 19 May 2018 (UTC) Fixed an incorrect diff - see edit history. 03:34, 19 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Probably my fault for lack of clarity but I was just trying to make a joke. The comment you diff'd, by an admin, seemed to be saying that the people asking for MrX to delete his evidence pile were partisan vipers, presumably including both you and me. I thought this was silly so I was saying we're both snakes so maybe I have snake immunity, etc. Just stupid humor.
And, I implemented "sources-talk" in my comment because I thought it would annoy you less than "reflist-talk".
Ohhhh...🐍my apologies to you for misinterpreting but it actually proved useful because the diff I used originally was the wrong diff. The worst part about texting is that it lacks the human gestures we depend on for proper context, interpretation and perception. I should have tried to imagine you coiled up and hissing behind a mischievous smile. 😝 Atsme📞📧 13:52, 19 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
PS...Factchecker_atyourservice if there’s a chance the humor in a comment might be misconstrued, we use [FBDB], a rather ingenious template created by another Harv 👨🎓 whose clever wit sometimes flies past at high altitudes. Atsme📞📧 14:11, 19 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Didn't One of many say this was a stupid edit and I should be embarrassed for suggesting it? Yet you say you're agreeing with me. Factchecker_atyourservice 14:53, 19 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I sure hope not - I may have conflated edits so I’ll get on my big puter instead of this iPad and review the discussion again. Atsme📞📧 15:18, 19 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Ha!! I guess reading with one eye instead of two = half-brain function instead of full. I explained why I thought he was right, which happens to be for a different reason than he may have originally intended. Atsme📞📧 16:34, 19 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Atsme📞📧 00:03, 23 April 2018 (UTC)
Atsme📞📧 02:17, 23 April 2018 (UTC)
Atsme📞📧 21:37, 23 April 2018 (UTC)
- I think it works the same way in reverse when it's a Dem prez and Congress. Gawd, I hate politics!! Atsme📞📧 22:26, 28 April 2018 (UTC)
--Tryptofish (talk) 22:53, 29 April 2018 (UTC)
Atsme📞📧 19:45, 9 May 2018 (UTC)
Atsme📞📧 19:13, 10 May 2018 (UTC)
. But it is pretty clear by the almost exaggerated writing is that 1 conforms with the ideas of NPOV. The upsetting part is 2 is not far off from what I have seen in places. PackMecEng (talk) 15:44, 11 May 2018 (UTC)
Moved to Talk:Gar
Atsme📞📧 19:21, 15 May 2018 (UTC)
Atsme📞📧 21:38, 17 May 2018 (UTC)
Atsme📞📧 22:06, 18 May 2018 (UTC)
I don't smoke...and when I suggested looking at the top of this page, I wasn't referring to the ceiling...but if it makes you happy, try it...you'll like it. Atsme📞📧 22:34, 18 May 2018 (UTC)
