Hello, Patrol forty! Welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. You may benefit from following some of the links below, which will help you get the most out of Wikipedia. If you have any questions you can ask me on my talk page, or place {{helpme}} on your talk page and ask your question there. Please remember to sign your name on talk pages by clicking or by typing four tildes "~~~~"; this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you are already excited about Wikipedia, you might want to consider being "adopted" by a more experienced editor or joining a WikiProject to collaborate with others in creating and improving articles of your interest. Click here for a directory of all the WikiProjects. Finally, please do your best to always fill in the edit summary field when making edits to pages. Happy editing! I dream of horses If you reply here, please leave me a {{Talkback}} message on my talk page. @ 03:11, 5 September 2014 (UTC)[reply] Getting Started Contributing to Wikipedia The five pillars of Wikipedia • Tutorial • Your first article How to: edit a page • upload an image Getting Help Frequently Asked Questions New contributors' help page Where to: ask questions • make requests Request administrator attention Policies and Guidelines Neutral point of view • Reliable sources Verifiability • Citing sources • No original research What Wikipedia is not • Biographies of living persons Simplified Manual of Style • Three-revert rule Copyrights • Policy for non-free content • Image use policy External links • Spam • Vandalism • Sock puppetry Deletion policy • Conflict of interest • Notability The Community Community Portal • Adopt-a-user program Assume good faith • Civility • Etiquette No personal attacks • Resolving disputes Build consensus • Village pump IRC channels • Mailing lists Discover what's going on in the Wikimedia community (The Signpost) Things to do Be bold in editing • Help develop an article Maintenance • Peer review • Requested articles Join a WikiProject • Translating articles Cleaning up: General • Spam • Vandalism Miscellaneous Categories • Disambiguity • Stubs User pages • Talk pages Useful templates • Tools • User scripts

		The Original Barnstar
		Even though I disagree with your arguments at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/HMS Richmond helicopter crash, I would like to give you this barnstar in recognition of the effort you've gone to in doing your research when making your first-ever edits to WP. I suspect this will be the first of many awards you receive if you continue here! Welome to Wikipedia Wittylama 12:21, 5 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I'd like to second that. Even though we disagree, I respect you for making your case so articulately. I hope to see more of you in future. Perhaps we might even find ourselves agreeing on something. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 16:31, 5 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you both. Patrol forty (talk) 06:23, 6 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

On another note, you'll see that a couple of your messages on the HMS Richmond deletion discussion now have the words "Preceding unsigned comment added by Patrol forty (talk • contribs)" written after them. This was automatically added by a bot whose job is to go around and try to attributed comments in discussions that were left unsigned in error. Until the new talk-page software is turned on which will completely redesign the way disucssions happen (and will make overtly 'signing' discussion pages a thing of the past), what you need to do in order to add your name and a timestamp to the end of comments is to simply write 4 tildes at the end. That is, this "~~~~". When you save the page, these tildes automatically convert to a signature and datestamp. You can adjust what your signature looks like in your preferences setting. I hope that helps. Sincerely, Wittylama 12:21, 5 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

OK, thanks for the info. Patrol forty (talk) 06:23, 6 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

You had better be careful (jk). I've been accused of being somebody's sock account because I displayed advanced Wikipedia knowledge like how to find a policy, guideline, or article via a google-like search engine. Which makes me wonder why, if they think everything is that difficult to learn, do they leave it in an admittedly confounding mess? I.e., "we openly encourage you to edit Wikipedia as an IP – you are not required to make an account; however, if you do eventually make an account you had better hide the fact that you've edited this enormous project before, as we view all new accounts who are not clueless with suspicion". Then they wonder why this site is having recruitment and retention problems! Anyway, it's nice to meet you. I appreciated several of your comments at Jimbo's page, and I was impressed that you knew he had one, because that is a pretty well kept secret around here ... lol. Rationalobserver (talk) 22:36, 16 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I try to WP:AGF but responses such as these "You're a fast learner, I didn't find pages like this for ages." in my view can be seen as loaded. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 23:15, 16 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Oh yes, the intent was clear. As it happens, I was accused of being a sock very early on here (simply because I am apparently a freak by being able to navigate a website and read and digest concepts like GNG in a matter of days rather than years, as one so-called expert tried to claim was the norm). It seems to be a common tactic in those who don't want to answer questions here. Much like that incident, I seem to have only attracted that accusation from that person simply because I replied to one of their comments with some observations of my own. Patrol forty (talk) 23:24, 16 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Somebody who has been here barely a few weeks and is somehow greatly versed and highly opinionated on site policy and in a place to lecture veterans such as myself on "sphere of influence", the history of Eric/Malleus and already contributing to high-end articles. People are suspicious? Hmm I wonder why...♦ Dr. Blofeld 10:05, 17 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I've given you no lectures, and I make no apology for having an opinion. And I continue to be amazed at the sort of trivial tasks some people here seem to think take great effort and time, such as reading policy pages or following links in discussions. I have absolutely no idea why you think I know the history of Eric, I'd never even heard of him until yesterday. But if you think that makes me unqualified to comment on his behaviour, or if you think that gives you the right to come to my page with these insinuations, you're wrong. In my humble opinion, which I feel quite entitled to give since this is my talk page you've come to, you're doing more to damage this guy's long term future on Wikipedia than any of the people you seem to think are only criticizing him for a "pat on the back from Jimbo". With advocates like you fighting his corner, stroking his ego, and giving him some frankly quite ridiculous 'advice', in my opinion, he's well and truly fucked. Patrol forty (talk) 15:39, 17 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I saw your contributions at ArbCom. Nice work! Just a reminder that in addition to the C-word, EC also frequently calls people idiots, such as this example, where an editor made the mistake of arguing about an extraneous comma. Rationalobserver (talk) 22:40, 17 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

He. I can't imagine ever getting so worked up about a comma to feel the need to call anyone an idiot. Patrol forty (talk) 22:58, 17 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

If anything here is truly "beyond the pale" that overreaction certainly is. I mentioned it because an important aspect the enablers' defense involves referring to the overwhelming amount of duress that usually causes the outbreaks, which are apparently well deserved in many cases. Rationalobserver (talk) 23:06, 17 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Indeed. There seems to me to be plenty of evidence out there that debunks many of these claims about how awesome/misunderstood/victimised/essential Eric is. Even the guy who posted the list of Featured Article writers neglected to say whether or not any of the other people on that list were in any way as controversial as Eric is. If it turns out they're not, well, that would be another of these claims discredited - this theory that there's something about the process of creating high quality articles on Wikipedia that means you just have to conduct yourself the way Eric does. Patrol forty (talk) 23:23, 17 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Not to mention the fact that there are more than 4,600,000 articles on English Wikipedia, with 800 new ones created every day. So even if he was as good as he and his enablers think he is, his net contribution to this project is absolutely miniscule in comparison to the whole. Rationalobserver (talk) 23:33, 17 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The Arbitration Committee has asked that evidence presentations be kept to around 500 words and 50 diffs. Your presentation is over 1600 words. Please edit your section to focus on the most relevant evidence, otherwise it might be removed. If you wish to submit over-length evidence, you must first obtain the agreement of the arbitrators by posting a request on the /Evidence talk page. For the Arbitration Committee, Worm^TT(talk) 10:48, 21 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Done. Patrol forty (talk) 14:52, 21 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

You're either a former IP editor, an alternative account of an existing editor or a ban evader. Your first edit with this account was to an Afd and consisted of more than 8000 characters. You have less than 100 edits with this account yet seem to have an axe to grind at Jimbo Wales's talk page and by posting mostly a long winded opinion piece at an arbitration case. It would be a good idea to come clean now.--MONGO 14:04, 21 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Your'e wrong on all counts. My first post to that Afd was the result of considerable research into the issue. My comments at Jimbo Wales's talk page reflect the same. I've said it before, and I'll say it as many times as this accusation keeps surfacing - I haven't been here hours or days, I've been reading Wikipedia for several weeks now, and while I don't consider myself to be any more capable than the average new user, I am perfectly happy to be seen as such if that simply means I am able to read policy pages, follow links and edit pages on Wikipedia. I am not in the habit of wasting my time commenting on issues I have not researched, and I make no apologies for having an opinion on any subject. And I most certainly won't be losing any sleep over being seen as an 'axe-grinder' by those who themselves could be so easily labelled as cheer-leaders for the counter-position. Patrol forty (talk) 15:50, 21 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

In other words you are not here to write an encyclopedia. You are here to troll. That was obvious from the start. As far as me being a cheerleader then you do not seem to have done your research nor have you any inclination as to what justice is. Considering your "contributions" to article space is zero, I find your aforementioned comments ludicrous.--MONGO 16:12, 21 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

My article edits are not zero, and what I thought about your accusations was already clearly visible on this page before you posted. The reality is, while it's extremely easy to accuse people of trolling, but it's even easier to spot when it's actually happening. Patrol forty (talk) 16:47, 21 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]