Thomas Thursby (died 1510^[1]), was a merchant, three times Mayor of King's Lynn and the founder and benefactor of Thoresby College.

He was the son of Henry Thursby, four times Mayor of Lynn and Burgess for Lynn.^[2]

In his will he leaves 'my special good lord of Oxenford' a tabernacle of our Lady of gold.^[3]

At the time of his death, he was married to Elizabeth^[1] (d. 1518^[4]), the widow of Robert Aylmer, Mayor of Norwich.^[4]

Children

In his will, he mentions the following children:

• Thomas Thursby^[1] (d. 1543^[5]), m. Anne^[3] Knyvett, lady in waiting to Katherine of Aragon. Anne Knyvett was the daughter of Sir Thomas Knyvett and his wife Muriel, widow of John Grey, 2nd Viscount Lisle, and daughter of Thomas Howard, 2nd Duke of Norfolk, in 1527.^[6][7] Anne Thorysby is one of the witnesses of Cecily Aylmer's will in 1541.^[8] Anne Knyvett remarried to Henry Spelman,^[9] the son of Sir John Spelman (d.1546) and the father of Sir Henry Spelman^[10] and of Erasmus Spelman, whose son Henry went to Virginia, by license dated 26 January 1543/4.^[11] Thomas had:^[5]
  • Edmund (d. 1547), m. Ursula,^[5] daughter of Sir Edward Beynton of the Vyse in Wiltshire, Knight,^[12] who remarried to Erasmus Spelman,^[5] and had John Spilman, Henry Spelman, Thomas Spelman, Bridget, Ele, Alice and Dorothy.^[12] Children of Edmund Thursby and Ursula:^[5]
    • Thomas Thursby, of age c. 1565, still living in 1579^[5]

  • 

    Francis Thursby^[3] of Congham,^[13] under 20 in 1543,^[3] mentioned in his brother Edmund's will dated 20 December 1547^[14], the third husband of Mary Neville Fiennes, Lady Dacre, with whom he had six children.^{[13][15][16][17]} This Thursby family owned property in Congham.^[18] Mary Neville Fiennes, Lady Dacre is the sitter in two famous portraits, one by Hans Eworth, misidentified as Frances Brandon, Duchess of Suffolk, for centuries, the other as her daughter Lady Jane Grey.^{[19][20][21][22]}
  • Mary, married Geoffrey Cobbs^[3] (d.1544^[23]), the son of William Cobb of Gayton, the grandson of William Cobb of Sandringham and the daughter and heiress of Ralph Gayton, and the great grandson of William Cobb of Sandringham in Norfolk, and Margaret, the daughter of Sir John le Buttler, knight,^[24][25] and had:
    • Thomas Cobbs (b.1539^[23]), eldest son and heir^[23]
    • William Cobbs^[23]
    • Ann^[23]
    • Dowsabell^[23]
• Margery, married name Gryndell,^[1] mentioned as 'my Sister Grenall' in the will of Cecily Aylmer in 1541. The will of Cecily Aylmer also mentions Elyn, Alexander, Mary and Jone Grenall.^[8] It is possible Margery's husband was James Gryndell, alderman of the gild in King's Lynn.^[26][27]
  • John, mentioned in his grandfather's will in 1510^[1]
• Elizabeth,^[1] the wife of Thomas Gibbon (Guybon) (1470/71–1531), of West Lynn, Norfolk^[28]
• Elyn,^[1] probably the 'my Aunt Thursby' of Cecily Aylmer's will in 1541^[8]
• Beatrice,^[1] who married firstly William Trew (d. 1510/12) of Lynn and secondly William Coningsby (by 1483–1540) of the Inner Temple, London and Lynn, Norfolk^[29]
• Margaret,^[1] the wife of Francis Mountford (1474/76–1536) of the Inner Temple, London and Feltwell, Norfolk.^[30] Married before 11 September 1512, when Richard Aylmer dies. He mentions 'my brother ffrannces mountford' in his will.^[31]

Because Thomas Thursby is the 16-great-grandfather of Prince William, Duke of Cambridge,^[32] there has been some interest in discovering the identity of the mother of his daughters. Thomas Thursby was married several times, so there is some uncertainty as to who the mother of his children was.^[3] If the birth date given for his son of the same name, 1487,^[3] is correct, he cannot possibly be the son of Elizabeth, as she was still the wife of Robert Aylmer (d.1493) then.

Nor does she refer to him as her son in her will, in which she gives Thomas Thursby a silver and gilt Agnus Dei with holy wax therein, and to his wife a silver and gilt image of our lady.^[4] This of course suggests that Thomas Thursby was married once before his marriage to Anne Knyvett, as Elizabeth died in 1518 and preparations for his wedding to Anne was underway 31 May 1527.^[6]

The wills of Elizabeth's son and granddaughter, however, describe the Thursby daughters in specific family terms. Richard Aylmer writes of 'my brother ffrannces mountford', the husband of Thomas Thursby's daughter Margaret,^[30] in his will.^[31] Richard's daughter Cecily mentions ' my aunte Thorysby' in her will, leaving her a spoon of silver,^[8] indicating that at least one of Thomas Thursby's children was by Elizabeth. She also mentions her 'sister' Grenall,^[8] which must be Margery Thursby, married name Gryndell.^[1] The names of Thomas Thursby's daughters, Elizabeth, Ellen, Beatrice, Margaret and Margery, correspond almost perfectly with known Aylmer given names.

Cecily does not mention Elizabeth, Beatrice or Margaret in her will. At least both Elizabeth and Margaret had passed away by then, as their husbands both predeceased Cecily, and both of those husbands had remarried after the deaths of Elizabeth and Margaret.^[28][30]

Richard Aylmer's will may be dated 11 August 1509, and is certainly written before his death on 11 September 1512, so Elizabeth was married then.^[30] Margery is married when her her father writes his will on 23 October 1510.^[1] This might indicate that they are the eldest, and if they can be inferred to be the children of Elizabeth, due to the family terms of the wills, it might stand to reason that their younger sisters were also the daughters of the wife their father had at his death.

Elizabeth is not the daughter of John Burgoyne who in the Visitations of Cambridgeshire marries 'Thomas Thorseby of Norfolk', as that Elizabeth is still alive and apparently a wife in 1528, when she receives an inheritance from her mother Margaret.^[33] Nor can she be the wife of his son, as that Thomas Thursby was marrying Anne^[3] Knyvett in 1527.^[6] Anne Thorysby along with Elyn Grenall are two of the witnesses of Cecily Aylmer's will in 1541.^[8] She is probably the Isabel, late the wife of Thomas Thursby, who is involved in a suit in 1532–38.^[34] Isabel and Elizabeth were considered the same name in the period.

There is a small possibility that it is this Thomas Thursby and his wife that Elizabeth is referring to in her will, though that seems unlikely.

One possibility is that Elizabeth is the daughter of the Sir William Knyvett with whom she was involved in a suit seemingly shortly after the death of her first husband in 1493.^[35] He had two daughters named Elizabeth, one from each of his two first wives. The youngest is likely the one who also died in 1518, while in the household of Edward Stafford, 3rd Duke of Buckingham, as the Duke refers to her as 'my cousin'.^[36][37] The two were related through her mother, Lady Joan Stafford. Sir William was known to show favouritism towards the children of his second marriage at the expence of those of his first.^[38][39]

His elder daughter Elizabeth's mother was Alice Grey, daughter of John Grey, Esq., of Kempston, eldest son of Reginald Grey, 3rd Baron Grey de Ruthyn by his second wife, Joan Astley. If both these suppositions are true, that gives Prince William, Duke of Cambridge, some quite prominent ancestors, which must be a source of joy to him.

Name Confusion

With three Thomas Thursbys in the same geographical area in the same time period it is perhaps not surprising that there are some confusion as to who is whom.

Controversy

The confusion between which Thomas Thursby is which attains some degree of seriousness because one of them was a rather sinister character.

The Lowestoft Archaeological and Local History Society sums it up thus:

Farming practices. Partly as a result of falls in population and partly in response to the demand for wool, there was a change from the traditional three-field system, which required a lot of labour, to grazing sheep. Richard gave several examples of “flockmasters”. These were men who bought up land that had once been open arable fields and converted it into enclosed sheep pasture. Thomas Thursby (1450-1510) was one of the most well documented as he was mayor of King’s Lynn several times, also Lord of the Manor of Gayton and an ancestor of Prince William through the Spencer family. Others were Henry Fermur in Thorpland, William Day in Alethorpe, Edmund Jermyn in Sturston, and William Fermur (son of Sir Henry) in Pudding Norton. The behaviour of these, and others like them, towards the landless peasants was often very poor and one of the main causes leading to Robert Kett’s rebellion in 1549.^[40]

This same person was responsible for the disappearance of the medieval villages of Holt^[41] and Cecily Aylmer's Myntlynge, Mintlyn. The landlord Thomas Thursby was accused of appropriating most of the common land for himself, by enclosing it and converting it to pasture for his sheep, and of evicting tenants from their homes before demolishing them.

Many sources, like the above one does, today identify him with the Thomas Thursby who was Mayor of King's Lynn in 1502 and died in 1510.

M.J. Medlar, however, in the The Gaywood River Valley in the Post-Medieval Period writes:

Nationally, especially in the Midlands, there was a trend for large landowners of small communities to depopulate the villages and convert the arable to enclosed pasture for large flocks of sheep. Sheep farming, relying on only a few shepherds, was much cheaper to operate than arable farming, and the late fifteenth century was a prosperous time for the wool and cloth trade of England. Norfolk landowners also followed this pattern - the most famous being the Townshends of Raynham and the Fermors of East Barsham, who owned huge flocks in the Fakenham area. In an inquiry of 1517, Thomas Thursby, lord of the manor of Gayton, was accused of enclosing arable lands in Ashwicken, Leizate and Bawsey, as well as depopulating the hamlet of Holt in the parish of Mintlyn. Frequently, only one farm in a parish survived this type of enclosure, and this appears to be what happened in Bawsey, Ashwicken and Leizate. A map of about 1690 shows there were still approximately ten houses in Mintlyn, and even the modern Ordnance Survey maps record Mintlyn Farm close to the ruined church, and White House Farm near a moated site in the south-east of the parish^[42]

Since this inquest took place in 1517,^[43] they would have had some difficulty in summoning the Thomas Thursby who died in 1510.

Both Miscellanea genealogica et heraldica^[2] and E.M. Yates in the The Dispute of the Salt Fen^[44] links the Thomas Thursby who was Mayor in 1502 with the Thomas Thursby who died in 1510.

The Thomas Thursby who is the object of this article, had a brother, Robert Thursby, Burgess for Lynn 1462–3, 1482–3 and 1487, who held the manors of Ashwicken and Burg's Hall in Hillington. Robert Thursby died 4 November 1500, his Inquisition post mortem took place on 29 October 1500. The two also had a sister, Beatrice, who married John Fincham and had issue.^[3]

This Robert had a son, Henry Thursby (1476–1506), who succeeded to his father's manors. He died on 20 September 1506, with his Inquisition post mortem taking place on 14 October 1507. He had married Ellen (b.1477), daughter and coheir of Thomas Fotheringhay, niece and coheiress of John Doreward. He left behind two sons, Thomas Thursby (b.1498), to whom his father devised the manor of Ashwicken, and Henry Thursby, to whom his father devised the manor of Burg's Hall in Hillington.^[3]

That leaves two possible candidates, this Thomas Thursby's son by the same name, and his great-nephew by the same name.

The son of Thomas Thursby (d.1510), the founder of Thoresby College, was definitely alive in 1543:

By Thomas Thorysby of Mintling, esquire, to the Mayor and burgesses to convey to them four pieces of pasture in Gaywood which were given to them by the will of Thorysby's father Thomas on condition that the Mayor and burgesses appoint a priest as master of the Charnel to instruct 6 poor children in grammar and song but were re-entered by Thorysby because the conditions were infringed. The Mayor and burgesses undertake to appoint the priest to celebrate mass in the Charnel chapel at the west end of St Margaret's church and instruct the 6 children, 1 October 1543.^[45]

This means that he was not the husband of Isabel, who was dead before 1538,^[34] that was probably the great-nephew.

Anne Knyvett, the widow of Thomas Thursby, remarries, by license dated 26 January 1543/4^[10][9][11]

As for the encloser, there is some definite proof as to who this character was:

Thoresby, dead by the time the complaint was made, had enclosed eight years before, that is in 1540, a year after Lynn Priory was dissolved. Depositions were taken on 25 April 1549 before Sir Nicholas Lestrange, Sir Thomas Hollys, Edward Beawpre and John Dethyk.^[44]

This points to the Thomas Thursby who died in 1543 and married Anne Knyvett.

Both Miscellanea genealogica et heraldica^[2] and E.M. Yates in the The Dispute of the Salt Fen^[44] identify him as the son of Thomas Thursby (d.1510), Mayor of King's Lynn.

Since the other Thomas Thursby was dead by at least 1538, and this enclosing took place in 1540, that should settle the question. However, this other Thomas Thursby left behind a son, also named Thomas. And to further complicate matters, the Thomas Thursby who is notorious for enclosing land is tied with the manor of Ashwicken, and Anne Knyvett was to marry Thomas Thuresby of Asshewykyne.^[6] And Ashwicken was left to this other branch of the family, it can be found left to the great-nephew Thomas Thursby in 1507.^[3][46]

On the other hand, to possess the kind of wealth needed for the amount of property Thomas Thursby the encloser bought, it seems more natural that he was the beneficiary of the will of Thomas Thursby (d.1510), who left his son by the same name great wealth.

The perhaps most natural explanation is that one cousin bought Ashwicken from the other, with some of that great wealth. But those records, if clarifying, concerning as they do, two men of the same name from the same place, may not longer exist, if they ever did so.

However, Francis Blomefield, Rector of Fersfield in Norfolk, writes the following:

After this, John Jenkin, Gent. conveyed by fine, in the 28th of Henry VIII. the 3d part of the manor of Glosthorpe, with lands in Wyken, Lesyate, Holt, Geyton, &c. to Thomas Thuresby, Esq. (as in Glosthorp) and the said Thomas Thorisby died seized of the manor of Ashwyken, with its appertenances, in the 36th of Henry VIII. The Thorisbys seem to have lived here at this time. Edmund Thoresby, Esq. son of Thomas, by his last will, dated December 20, 1547, desires to be buried in the church of Ashwyken, appoints Ursula his wife executrix, and mentions his brother, Francis Thoresby, Esq. proved January 9 following. (fn. 4) In the beginning of Queen Elizabeth's reign, Thomas Thoreshy, Esq. had livery of the manors of Ashwiken, Bawsey, Glosthorp, &c. being son and heir of Edmund. In this family it remained till about the year 1700, when Francis Thoresby, Esq. of Geywood, sold it to John Drury, Esq. who in 1675 presented to the rectory as lord.^[14]

It seems that the great-nephew had sold the lordship of the manor of Ashwicken either directly to John Jenkin or to somebody who sold it on again to him, and he again sells it about 1527 (i.e. 28th of Henry VIII) to Thomas Thursby, the son of Thomas Thursby (d.1510), just in time for his marriage to Anne Knyvett the same year, perhaps to impress his chosen bride. Thomas Thursby, if the birth year in Miscellanea genealogica of 1487 is correct, would have been 40 years old, Anne Knyvett about 20.

Furthermore, tantalisingly, there is some suggestion that the other branch of Thursbys relocated somewhere else altogether.

Visitations in Norfolk refer to the son of Henry Thursby and Ellen Fotheringhay as 'Thomas Thursbye of Bocking'.^[47]

There seems to be general agreement that his great-grandson Christopher Thursby^[47][48] was of Bocking.^[49][50]

Even Christopher's father, Edward Thursby, gentleman is described as' of Bockinge in Essex'.^[49][50]

There is even a primary source reference in 1541 referring to Edward Thursby as of Bocking in Letters and Papers Henry VIII, 1541, g. 580/74:

74. Edm. Beaupre. Annuity of 10l. issuing from the manor of Bocking, Essex, which belonged to Thos. Thurseby, dec., in reversion; during the minority of Edw. Thuresby, s. and h. of the said Thomas; with wardship and marriage of the said heir. Hampton Court, 18 Jan. 32 Hen. VIII. Del. Westm., 16 Feb.—P.S. Pat. p. 5, m. 55.^[51]

Burke gives us the answer. This branch of Thursbys inherited Doreward Hall in Essex from Helen/Ellen Fotheringhay's Doreward relatives.^[52] Her mother was Elizabeth Doreward, and Elizabeth was the heiress of her father William Doreward, and Helen/Ellen herself was the coheiress of her uncle, John Doreward.^[52][3]

This is the same line that would later be known as Thursby of Abington.^[52][53][54]

Ancestry

To complete Burke,^[52] the line to the brothers Thomas Thursby (d.1510) and Robert Thursby (d.1499) is as follows:^[3]

• John Thursby, Mayor of Lynn Regis 1425^[52] and Deputy-Mayor 1435^[2]
  • Henry Thursby, four times Mayor of Lynn and Burgess for Lynn 1444–5, 1450 and 1455^[2]
    1. Thomas Thursby, Mayor of Lynn in 1502, build the south chancel aisle and founded the Thoresby College in St. Margaret's Church, Lynn. Died at Lynn on 9 August 1510. Testament dated 3 May, proved 23 October 1510. Desires burial in St. Margaret's Church, next to his father's tomb. Inquisition post mortem 7 November 1511^[2]
    2. Robert Thursby, Burgess for Lynn 1462–3, 1482–3 and 1487. Held the manors of Ashwicken and Burg's Hall in Hillington. Died 4 November 1499. Inquisition post mortem 29 October 1500^[3]

The Descendants of His Brother, Robert Thursby

Mapping out the family tree of these Thursbys has some challenges.

Visitations in Essex omits one of the early Thomases^[50], Visitations in Norfolk name barely any of the wives,^[47] Visitations in Essex give the same Thomas two different wives, implying that both was his only one.^[49][50]

However, everyone agrees that Henry Thursby (1476^[3]–1506^[3]), m. Helen, daughter and coheiress of Thomas Fotheringhay.^{[47][3][52][55]}

Furthermore, there seems to be perfect agreement that his great-grandson Edward Thursby of Bockinge in Essex, gentleman, married Mary, daughter of Philip Bedingfield of Norfolk, esquire^{[49][50][56][52]}

The descendants of Thomas Thursby's brother Robert, starting with the said Robert:

• Robert Thursby (d.1499) of Ashwicken and Burg's Hall, Burgess for Lynn^[3]
  • Henry Thursbye (1476^[3]–1506^[3]), m. Hellen, daughter and coheiress of Thomas Fedringhey^[47]
    1. Thomas Thursbye (1498^[3] – bef.1538^[34]) of Bocking,^[47] to whom his father devised the manor of Ashwicken,^[3] and who probably sold it before 1527.^[14] Married Elizabeth or Isabel Burgoyne, the daughter of John Burgoyne and Margaret^[33][34]
       • Thomas Thoresby (d.1541^[51]), who married possibly either or both the daughter of Staveley^[49] and the daughter Calibutt of Castle Acre in Norfolk,^[50] probably a daughter of John Calibutt of Castle Acre and Alice Wingfield, as a later descendant is called Wingfield Thursby^[57][58][59]
         • Edward Thursbye of Bockinge (b.bef.1541) in Essex, gentleman, son and heir, m. Mary, daughter of Philip Beddingfield of Norfolk, esquire^[49]
    2. Henry Thursby, to whom his father devised the manor of Burg's Hall in Hillington.^[3][46]

Descendants

This means that the descendants in The Visitations of Norfolk 1664^[60] are the descendants of Thomas Thursby (d.1543) and Anne Knyvett, not the descendants of the line described in the preceding Visitations of Norfolk.

They are different branches of the same family.

References