Infoboxes
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Television Template‑class

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Is it possible to add an "Inspired by" parameter on the template? I noticed some TV series use "Inspired by" instead "Based on" according to their on-screen credits. "Inspired by" isn't the same thing as "Based on", vice versa. — YoungForever^(talk) 15:29, 11 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I can't find any passed discussions about this. I think this makes sense. |inspired_by= could be a quasi-alias of |based_on= and change the heading name if used. I would say one or the other should definitely be used if implemented. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 16:40, 11 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I would urge caution on this. It is ripe for WP:OR and WP:SYNTH. For example I like thinking that Northern Exposure was inspired by Local Hero (film) but that is as OR on my part as it can be :-) IMO it is better suited for prose in the production section of an article. In any event the info would definitely require reliable sourcing. MarnetteD|Talk 18:28, 3 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

If I understood the proposal correctly, it would only be in instances where an explicit "Inspired by" credit appears for a series, much like how series include "Based on" credits now. As with anything, sure there will be uses that go against what was intended, but I believe the current thought of adding it is in the right place. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 18:59, 3 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Ah apologies for missing that. As credited is fine but if any info is available that enhances that listing a mention in the body of the article I think it would enhance a readers understanding. MarnetteD|Talk 19:07, 3 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@MarnetteD: Favre1fan93 is correct. I said according to their on-screen credits which isn't WP:OR and WP:SYNTH. — YoungForever^(talk) 23:22, 3 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@YoungForever and MarnetteD: The sandbox is currently adjusted to make this happen. Test cases can be seen here. The first one is just with |based_on=, second is with just the new |inspired_by=, and third is if you use both together, only |based_on= will show up. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 22:46, 5 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Looks good. — YoungForever^(talk) 22:57, 5 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Gonnym: Since you do a lot of work on the TV templates and have template edit privileges, have you seen this discussion? I believe this is good to be added, and if you agree, could you move the sandbox version here to the live template? - Favre1fan93 (talk) 23:09, 5 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I agree it looks good. Thanks for your work on this Favre1fan93. MarnetteD|Talk 23:20, 5 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Added it. Please update the /doc (parameter section and templatedata). --Gonnym (talk) 08:20, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you! I've updated the doc. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 14:27, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Favre1fan93: Thank you for creating the test cases to make it happen. — YoungForever^(talk) 03:57, 7 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Gonnym: Thank you for implementing the |inspired_by= to the template. — YoungForever^(talk) 22:38, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Can we all agree that the Narrated parameter should not be used unless someone is actually credited as "narrator" or "narrated by" (e.g. Love Life (American TV series)), and that it should not be used on TV series such as Magnum, P.I. where there is no credited narrator and a "voice-over" narration is provided by one of the series' regular characters?

If so, I propose the Infobox documentation for the Narrated parameter be changed to something like "The show's credited narrator(s) (if applicable). Years or seasons should not be included. (emphaisis mine) --IJBall (contribs • talk) 18:02, 3 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I support the proposal as worded. --AussieLegend (✉) 18:08, 3 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Support as well. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 19:00, 3 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I also support this as well. — YoungForever^(talk) 23:23, 3 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

OK, no opposition so far. I'll give this another day or two, and if there are no objections, I'll go ahead and update the template documentation as this appears to be a "non-controversial" change/update. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 17:24, 4 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

 Done. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 02:41, 11 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Are there any thoughts about how to deal with webshows on Youtube or streaming shows such as Critical Role that have a cast, but lack "traditional" intro or outro credits that could provide a starring order? Should other title sequences be used, if they exist? Should starring order simply be alphabetized? --Arcaist (contribs • talk) 11:40, 8 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Alphabetical seems a good alternative when there is no title/credit sequence. Though if there is a host-like role, perhaps list them first? Critical Role does complicate matters here because they introduced a credit sequence from C1E50. HarmonQuest gets around the problem by just not listing the cast in the infobox – though I don't recall if it has a title sequence or not (should be able to check this evening). Little pob (talk) 12:24, 8 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not familiar with these shows, but the first video I pulled up on Critical Role on YouTube ("Curious Beginnings | Critical Role | Campaign 2, Episode 1") list the cast in the video description so if they usually do that then I would go with that ordering. - adamstom97 (talk) 10:32, 9 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

That's a logical solution. Unless someone gets to it first, I'll check the early C1 episode descriptions tonight. Little pob (talk) 12:18, 9 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Checking at random from both before and after Orion left the show (C1 eps 1, 2, 3, 24, 27, 28, 115), there are no show credits listed. So it looks like credits in the YouTube video description is a Campaign Two thing. Little pob (talk) 17:29, 9 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

With TV shows, is the procedure to do the cast order from the first season or to do the cast order from the most recent season? Critical Role is split into campaign 1 & campaign 2, so I guess we could consider those seasons 1 & 2. Sariel Xilo (talk) 18:29, 9 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

You start with the cast order from season 1, episode 1. If that remains the same for the entire season, then come season 2, episode 1, if there are any newly added cast members (regardless of what the season credit order is) you add them to the end of the season 1 list. For example, if season 1 has credits A, B, C, D, E for the entire season, and come season 2, the cast is A, C, D, F, G, H, the order on the main article simply becomes A, B, C, D, E, F, G, H. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 21:46, 9 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Anyone has any feedback on what an "original network" is? How should we list television series that switched main networks during its run?

How should we list the original network for Ang Probinsyano which moved from ABS-CBN to the Kapamilya Channel.

For a brief background, the government did not renew the franchise of ABS-CBN which meant that the network is not operational, and the company owner set up a second network Kapamilya Channel, a pay television network while renewal of the franchise in the congress is still pending. New episodes of the series has been broadcasting in the new channel.

Should we list both channels with years when each of the channel was the main network in the Infobox or just ABS-CBN with a footnote explaining the situation? Hariboneagle927 (talk) 04:19, 12 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The original network is, as implied by the title, the network on which the program originally aired or was released. For programs that moved networks, it is simply a matter of listing the networks in chronological order. Years or seasons are not used in the infobox. Instead, this should be addressed in the prose. If new episodes are still airing on ABS-CBN then there is no need to alter the infobox at all, and the airing of episodes on the new channel in addition to the original should be addressed in the prose. However, if all new episodes are being aired on the new channel only then the infobox code would be:

| network            = {{plainlist|
* [[ABS-CBN]]
* [[Kapamilya Channel]]
}}

--AussieLegend (✉) 06:48, 12 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The purpose of specifying the original network is to avoid having a list of all subsequent networks that episodes may air on, so if there was a second network that had encore airings of episodes we wouldn't want to include that. We also don't want a list of different networks from different countries that have aired the series. But if the series moved to a new network for new episodes at some point during its run, which is what this situation sounds like, then you would add the new network as an additional original network (since it was the original network for certain episodes/seasons of the series). - adamstom97 (talk) 07:20, 12 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I can see value in the dates being added to the infobox, but think that it would work better in a situation where we have |network2=, |first_aired2= and |last_aired2=, so that the infobox will show:

Original network: ABS-CBN
Original release: date-date
Original network: Kapamilya Channel
Original release: date-date

This style can actually also work for revival situations like in Twin Peaks. --Gonnym (talk) 08:21, 12 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the input. And yes new episodes are airing in the second network. I also agree if the second option could be implemented could be helpful as well.Hariboneagle927 (talk) 07:13, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I'd argue that there is no need for the second option. By its very nature the infobox is supposed to be brief. Any network/channel changes and relevant dates should be addressed in the prose. Typically people seem to want to jam as much as they can into the infobox and that's not right. --AussieLegend (✉) 18:38, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I could not agree more partially with AussieLegend. Some editors tend to include every secondary networks on the | network which is not acceptable. Typically,

| network            = {{plainlist|
* Original network (year range) or (season range)
* Moved to network (year range) or (season range)
}}

is acceptable as we do this for a lot of TV series. Here are some examples: Lucifer (TV series), The Killing (American TV series), Arrested Development, Unreal (TV series), The Mindy Project, and Search Party (TV series). — YoungForever^(talk) 19:01, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I'm in agreement with Aussie and Young, I don't think we need to add a second set of parameters, and can be covered by the formatting Young presented above. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 23:45, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Just pointing out that you can't be an agreement with both, as Aussie specicially mentioned he's against using years/seasons. Gonnym (talk) 00:02, 14 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Different situation, same topic

Found a situation with another show which I guess falls under this topic but is throwing me off only because of the part about not including foreign broadcasters. But with Curious George seasons 1-9 first aired on PBS Kids in the United States from 2006-2015, not a problem. Seasons 10-12 first aired on Family Jr. in Canada from 2018-2020. Followed by season 13 released on Peacock (streaming service) in 2020. Seasons 10-12 never aired on PBS Kids, but the three seasons are included with season 13 on Peacock while seasons 1-9 stream on Hulu. So would Family Jr. be considered a first-run network even though it's in a different country or would it just be PBS and Peacock with the release dates of the latter four seasons in the U.S. being officially released on July 15? TheDoctorWho (talk) 20:27, 16 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@TheDoctorWho: You might want to use |first_run= as well. So |network= would be PBS Kids, Family Jr., and Peacock (with appropriate years) and |first_run= would be "Canada (2018-2020)". - Favre1fan93 (talk) 20:39, 16 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Use of first_run like that would be misleading as the parameter is for "The country or region where the show was first broadcast." As with all content that might confuse readers, it's best to address it in detail in the prose rather than introducing ambiguities into the infobox. The infobox isn't the only part of the article. --AussieLegend (✉) 05:38, 17 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Was looking around the archives to see if this issue had been brought up before and [this thread] (and in turn, [this one as well]) seems to be the closest one related to my concerns.

The unfortunate thing is, the more recent thread died out after one reply while the older one did not get any replies. My intent is to revive this issue with this new thread because unlike the situation with "people" and "peoples", "company" and "companys" is a little... strange, so to speak, to look at.

Options brought up in both threads include "Production company(ies)" and "Production company/ies". Personally, I'd like to suggest "Production compan(y/ies)", but I can see why it wouldn't be as ideal as the first two suggestions.

In any case, they're much more comforting to look at than what we have now, which is "Production company(s)".

Thoughts?

Cheers, u|RayDeeUx (contribs | talk page) 23:36, 12 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

What I implemented on Template:Infobox character was alias parameters for plural which when used makes the label plural. I think that makes the most sense. --Gonnym (talk) 09:21, 14 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I agree that would be preferable to "Production company(ies)" or "Production company/ies" which both look odd to me. - adamstom97 (talk) 21:41, 14 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Gonnym and Adamstom.97, thank you both for your responses. Any chance we can implement alias params to the template now? I never thought of that possibility since I'm not strong with wikitables and parameters... Cheers, u|RayDeeUx (contribs | talk page) 14:33, 15 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I concur, having |company= give Production company and |companies= give Production companies would remove some of the ambiguity and "oddity" of the current setup. Granted, someone would need to manually go through and update the extant uses to reflect the change, but it's not something that needs to happen immediately. Primefac (talk) 00:26, 20 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Hi everyone - the directions specify not to use: 4:3" or: 16:9", but I see it used constantly - I'm fine to revert these, right?

Also, should shows shot on film, transferred to 480i tape, and then remastered in HD later (specific examples: Happy Days, Scooby-Doo, Where are You!) just have "Film" listed as the picture format?

--FuriousFreddy (talk) 23:41, 22 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, it's fine to remove aspect ratios. The picture format should be the format that was first aired. If a filmed program was first aired in NTSC, then NTSC should be used and so on. --AussieLegend (✉) 07:00, 23 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Right now there's only one suggested parameter for this template per the TemplateData: the image. As a result, if you start a new instance of this template with VisualEditor, that's the only field that shows by default. What other fields would be most commonly desired by people creating articles that use this infobox? Raymie (t • c) 07:45, 25 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• My problem with suggested parameters is that even if left blank the visual editor adds them. That's an awful design. --Gonnym (talk) 09:05, 25 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  I agree with Gonnym but the most common fields are:

| name
| image
| image_alt
| caption
| genre
| creator
| developer
| writer
| director
| creative_director
| presenter
| starring
| judges
| voices
| narrated
| theme_music_composer
| opentheme
| endtheme
| composer
| country
| language
| num_seasons
| num_series
| num_episodes
| list_episodes
| executive_producer
| producer
| editor
| camera
| runtime
| company
| distributor
| network
| picture_format
| audio_format
| first_aired
| last_aired
| website
| production_website

This is based on the number of infoboxes that I fix daily. --AussieLegend (✉) 09:41, 25 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

It seems to me that the |list_episodes is just as useful when the list is in the same article, so I have started a discussion on the policy that appears to discourage this.

Jim Craigie (talk) 10:18, 8 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Taking into consideration the variety of articles that use {{Infobox television}}, are the parameters first_aired= and last_aired= appropriate, or would first_broadcast= and last_broadcast= be more appropriate? Not every show was transmitted only through airwaves. Aired is pretty specific, while broadcast is non-specific.
Christopher, Sheridan, OR (talk) 07:15, 18 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Is | name = deliberately or accidentally missing from the syntax and example in Usage (before the Parameters sub-heading)?
Jim Craigie (talk) 12:54, 24 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• In 99% of the situations it is not needed as the page title is used. --Gonnym (talk) 13:05, 24 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The description of |preceded_by= and |followed_by= makes reference to a predecessor or successor show without specifying if this should be understood to be with the respect to the chronology of the storyline or of the broadcasts. Thus, if a show B is a prequel to show A, it is a predecessor in the story timeline but a successor in the broadcast timeline. Which one was intended? It would be nice to get this clarified in the description. jmsofia (talk) 01:34, 25 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]