Television Template‑class

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I've noticed that a lot of new editors, and readers, don't understand that runtime is supposed to be without commercials. (e.g. this edit) Perhaps a minor change should be made to the template so that " minutes (without commercials)" is automatically appended to the field to avoid any ambiguity, since most people don't seem to bother looking at template instructions? --AussieLegend (✉) 06:34, 31 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I don't get why runtime without commercials is used any way, I mean they don't refer to themselves as a 45 minute long show, they refer to themselves as an hour long show. I think it should reflect the length of the time slot they're filling. CRRaysHead90 | ^{Get Some!} 20:03, 20 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Different countries, and even different networks in the countries, have different rules and regulations regarding the number/time of non-program content that may be aired during an hour period. Ads and other non-program content is not part of the program so it makes no sense to include it in the runtime. The runtime without commercials is a constant, so it makes far more sense to use that. --AussieLegend (✉) 00:21, 21 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I respectfully disagree, and also respectfully contend that your argument doesn't debunk anything of what I said. The length of the time slot the show is filling is consistent unless it's a special, the amount of commercials isn't always consistent. Also let's look at show guides like TV Guide they list shows by the length of the time slot they're filling, not the length of the show minus commercials. CRRaysHead90 | ^{Get Some!} 00:33, 21 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The timeslot isn't consistent though, it varies. Maybe it's a constant in the US, but in other countries timeslots vary, so calling a program with a 46 minute runtime an hour-long program is ambiguous. --AussieLegend (✉) 00:46, 21 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I get the feeling you're exagerating the inconsistency in other countries, please provide proof. CRRaysHead90 | ^{Get Some!} 01:04, 21 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Many BBC programmes are 58 minutes long to fill a 1 hour slot with no advert breaks. When shown on commercial stations abroad they can fill a 90 minute slot. Likewise 44 minute programmes from america are only shown on the BBC in a 45/46 min slot. Merlin and Dr Who are made to fill commercial stations one hour slot but only 45 mins in Britain except when repeated on commercial satellite station in the UK with adverts when they are on hour. Worse old 50 minute programmes like Randall and Hopkirk are cut to the 45 minute format to get in more adverts although there was such an uproar I think they now fill a 65 minute slot. Years ago an episode of the old Hawaii 50 was cut from 50 mins to 35 mins to fill a slot. So after my rant here I think running time should be the original uncut time as was filmed or as the infobox wants an aproximation to cover minor censorship cuts such as the series Hunted. REVUpminster (talk) 08:19, 25 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The Australian ABC is a non-commercial network, so all these "60 minute" shows are actually scheduled as 45 minutes as broadcast there. In Hong Kong, one network ATV is doing poorly in selling ads, so shows often run with few ads, especially late at night. (Even 60 Minutes is nowhere near an hour long.) Also, even in the US, the length of shows that are "one hour" isn't constant over time or between networks. E.g., HBO "one hour" shows might be 58 minutes long; in the 60s, Star Trek: The Original Series episodes are 50 minutes. By 2001, Star Trek: Enterprise was down to 42. So labelling all these as "60 minutes" would not only be incorrect numerically, but implies they are the same length, which is also untrue. And many people are now watching online versions of the shows, either legally or otherwise, and these are commercial free, or by DVD, and this is only getting more prevalent. The ads aren't part of the shows and aren't seen by all viewers anyway, and shouldn't be counted as such. Barsoomian (talk) 08:48, 25 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I noticed this template only allows to add the final air date after its happened. While this fine for shows that stop suddenly, however, for shows that have an announced end date, I think it should be able to be added. I mean it's already added to article itself usually so why not put it in the template too? I think having the article differ from the template in this manner only serves to confuse readers, if only slightly. Therefore, I propose the end date be opened up to announced end dates too. CRRaysHead90 | ^{Get Some!} 20:05, 20 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

This would inevitably mean people making guesses as to the end date, quite likely good guesses, but still the finale isn't over till the fat lady bows. The infobox also only states the number of episodes and seasons that have actually aired, whether there is a firm order (or heartfelt wish) for more episodes to be made or not, so it's consistent with that. The only part of the infobox that is complete fantasy and WP:CRYSTAL is the insistence that a series is "present" unless explicitly cancelled. So shows can and are stated to be on air for years after the last episode has aired and the sets struck. I've tried to get some logic in that, but got shouted down by people who react as if pointing out a show isn't currently being broadcast is pointing a gun at their puppy. My point is that the "end date" is actually called "last_aired" so it should be that. The date that the last episode aired. Whether that happens to be the series finale is a different thing entirely, but the "last aired" date is simple and factual historical event, not a speculation that a show will either finish at an announced date, or will by default go on forever, the latter being the current ridiculous situation, even though the continuation of a TV show is a desperately unpredictable and unlikely event in most cases. If and when a show starts a new season we obviously should state that and revise the "last aired" date, as it's no more fixed or permanent than the total number of episodes. We don't wait till the show is declared cancelled before we count the number of episodes, we just have a running tally. There used to be a "status" indicator in the infobox, which could have clarified such situations, but that was removed. So now the infobox for shows like Primeval is simple, clear and wrong. Barsoomian (talk) 09:10, 25 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I'd like to request an addition to the template. It would be a rating slot so TV shows would have a TV-G, TV-PG, TV-14 Etc. §h₳un 9∞76 00:53, 6 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]