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Warning: Display title "Template talk:Infobox television" overrides earlier display title "Template talk:<i>Infobox television</i>" (help). There are some contradictory instructions for some of the important parameters in this infobox. These are (with emphasis added for clarity):

This causes a problem at TV series such as The Tom and Jerry Show (2014 TV series). The series is American but first aired in Canada so Teletoon is a foreign broadcaster and therefore should not be in the |channel= field. Instead this should be Cartoon Network. Similarly, because |first_aired= and |last_aired= specify the "original channel", the US dates should be used in those fields. Including "Canada" in |first_run= per the instructions is misleading as the average reader would expect to see Canadian information, given Canada's location in the middle of the section and since that is where it first aired. The instructions either need to be rewritten, or the parameter relocated so that it's clear that the data is local and the foreign location is just a note. --AussieLegend (✉) 08:21, 29 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

How I'm reading this, all of this information should relate to the channel that corresponds to its country of origin. But, if this information does not correspond to where it was first broadcast (in Tom and Jerry's case), then we should use the parameters as such. What if we change as so: keep "channel" or "network", "first_aired" and "last_aired" as is, and change instructions for "first_run" to include country, channel and it's air dates, or default to the country of origin if not used. I'm expecting the output to be something like: - Favre1fan93 (talk) 15:38, 29 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

That's not exactly what I was thinking of but it solves the problem and probably in a better way than what I was thinking. I'd be tempted to add fields for the foreign country dates so editors don't have to manually format the field. --AussieLegend (✉) 04:31, 1 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you. When you presented this, it seemed logical to me. And yes, I just did a rough mock up, so I do believe a few new parameters may be needed. I'm seeing possibly three additional? If leaving |first_run=, then add one for the country's channel, and then one each for the start and end dates. And do note that the order they appear in the infobox will have to be adjusted to be clear as well (as I did in my mock up). - Favre1fan93 (talk) 05:02, 1 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not sure what to call the new parameters. Adding _foreign to existing names seems rather simple and makes the intent of the parameters obvious, so we'd end up with first_aired_foreign, last_aired_foreign, channel_foreign and network_foreign. If we use your suggestion, network_foreign would simply be an alias for channel_foreign and used only for consistency with current parameters. --AussieLegend (✉) 05:26, 1 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

How about all the parameters as follows: |channel= or |network=, |first_aired=, |last_aired=, |first_run=, |first_run_channel= (or network. either or, or both), |first_run_first_aired= and |first_run_last_aired=. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 06:05, 1 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, that'd work too. --AussieLegend (✉) 18:27, 4 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

No one else has commented, but I don't see why there would be any objections. Can you make these changes? - Favre1fan93 (talk) 18:31, 4 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

@AussieLegend: Do you feel we can implement this? Are you able to do so? - Favre1fan93 (talk) 17:50, 17 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Since there has been no opposition, I'll have a look. --AussieLegend (✉) 02:07, 19 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Just pinging @Bignole: as an active WP:TV editor whose input is worth seeking. --AussieLegend (✉) 02:49, 19 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

This sounds logical to me. I don't find this issue all that much to have a real opinion about it. What you've written up Favre seems appropriate. I'm ok with it.  BIGNOLE  (Contact me) 03:54, 19 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Gotta hand it to Favre for some clear mockups there. I hope my silence was considered implicit acceptance. The only note I have is that we please, please, please provide clear instructions in the docs. I will chase each of you 'round the moons of Nibia to get some clarity to the Infobox parameters! And I'm sorry I didn't participate in this discussion sooner. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 04:47, 19 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

"I will chase each of you 'round the moons of Nibia" Yeah, look where that got Khan. ;) --AussieLegend (✉) 06:41, 19 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I will not fail like Khan! Cyphoidbomb (talk) 13:34, 19 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you both! - Favre1fan93 (talk) 05:09, 19 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I also arrived late. These discussions need listed in more places. I'm a WPTV troller and this should've been pinged there somehow. If my plate was less full, I would create a global Television issues area somewhere. — Wyliepedia 10:21, 24 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

@CAWylie: Aussie made a post about this on the project talk page back at the end of April: here - Favre1fan93 (talk) 15:25, 24 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Ahso! Apologies for my dropped ball (or full plate). — Wyliepedia 15:30, 24 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

No problem. We have not acted on anything, so if you'd still like to weigh in, please do. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 15:35, 24 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

How about a {{Film date}}-type addition, used with a film's |release parameter? I.e.: {{Film date|2014|6|24|Canada}} returns:

That way, it shows where it first aired while retaining the original (normal) airing country's format (first run, last aired, channel)? Or Favre1fan93's previous suggestion. I'm sleepy, thus flexible. (EDIT: Or add a date to the second blue box's Canada up top? So it would say "First shown in: Canada (March 1, 2014)" as suggested.) — Wyliepedia 16:55, 24 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Under "TemplateData" two parameters seem to be switched. "Native Name" has "genre" and "Genre" has "native_name_lang". Yes, people should realize the mistake but why make it harder. Jaguar766 (talk) 18:01, 4 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Native Name isn't even a parameter. The swap has been fixed and native name removed. --AussieLegend (✉) 18:24, 4 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Hey, I was hoping to get some clarification on the Company parameter, and propose we modify the explanatory text in this template accordingly. Currently the Company parameter reads: "The names of the production companies." Nice and vague. I noticed this edit, which added Titmouse to the company parameter (Titmouse is credited in the series with "Animation Production Services"). Is the purpose of the Company parameter to list all of the companies that may have contributed to the production, (ex: the literal "production", or manifestation, of the animation) or only the companies that funded the production as a producer might do? I see this all the time in animation articles, where a project somehow becomes a co-production because Company A financed it, and Company B did the animation, and it's never really been made clear what qualifies something as a co-production. The side-effect of this, is that often series becomes pegged as a multinational project (ex: "XYZ series is an American/Canadian production), which is sort of accurate, but not for the reasons we think. Some American cars have Japanese engines, for example. Thanks! Cyphoidbomb (talk) 21:00, 16 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Generally, I would go with the company that is paying the bill. For example, The CW often does a lot of business in Canada because it is cheaper, but their shows are not Canadian shows. It's about location and finance. I wouldn't call Casino Royale a Moroccan film because it was filmed there. Where the money is spent should not be a determining factor, because you're going to look for the cheapest option.  BIGNOLE  (Contact me) 15:59, 17 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

For shows like Futurama, Family Guy, Dr Who and The Comeback which have had substantial gaps in productions after being cancelled the first aired and last aired dates are not very helpful. The Doctor Who infobox is a shambles with it having both 26 series and then seven seasons (even though the British term is series for that as well) and the editors of that page have adapted by using their own headings, date fields, line breaks, etc. The Comeback (TV series) lasted for one short series in 2005 before being cancelled and is allegedly being renewed this year.

I believe that in cases where a show has been cancelled and off the air for a long time a "second aired" or a "subsequently aired" or "revival aired" option would be useful in a summary box. The "subsequently aired" option could easily be defined with a variable so that a second cancellation and a long gap followed by a new revival would obviate the need for a "third aired" in future. I am sure others could easily define a reasonable standard for when a show would qualify, such as being renewed after being cancelled or off the air for several years. Waerloeg (talk) 00:30, 22 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

After seeing this edit at the MOS, I thought it wise to drop by here to take a look at the parameter instructions for last_aired. I think they need to be clarified, because in common usage, and per WikiProject Television consensus, the last_aired value typically represents a cancellation, and we have for a long time been requiring that cancellations be sourced, either in the article prose, or in the infobox. Kids' shows don't get a lot of press about cancellation, instead they just don't get picked up and quietly fizzle into obscurity. I propose a simple change to the prose, my additions are in bold:

The first airdate of the show's last episode on its original channel or network. Use "present" if the show is ongoing, renewed, or if its fate has not been announced, and {{end date}} if the show is ended. Only insert a finale date after it has happened. Since the end date represents a cancellation, it must be supported by properly sourced prose in the article body, or by an inline reference to a reliable source.

Thoughts? Cyphoidbomb (talk) 17:00, 4 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I just wanted to clarify, because I think I may be misreading it, are you proposing that if a kid's show is cancelled, but they have not made a formal announcement about it then we leave the article as "present" for an extended period of time (if it's an obscure show, no one may make note of the cancellation)?  BIGNOLE  (Contact me) 17:36, 4 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]