Television Template‑class

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I've noticed that a lot of new editors, and readers, don't understand that runtime is supposed to be without commercials. (e.g. this edit) Perhaps a minor change should be made to the template so that " minutes (without commercials)" is automatically appended to the field to avoid any ambiguity, since most people don't seem to bother looking at template instructions? --AussieLegend (✉) 06:34, 31 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I don't get why runtime without commercials is used any way, I mean they don't refer to themselves as a 45 minute long show, they refer to themselves as an hour long show. I think it should reflect the length of the time slot they're filling. CRRaysHead90 | ^{Get Some!} 20:03, 20 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Different countries, and even different networks in the countries, have different rules and regulations regarding the number/time of non-program content that may be aired during an hour period. Ads and other non-program content is not part of the program so it makes no sense to include it in the runtime. The runtime without commercials is a constant, so it makes far more sense to use that. --AussieLegend (✉) 00:21, 21 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I respectfully disagree, and also respectfully contend that your argument doesn't debunk anything of what I said. The length of the time slot the show is filling is consistent unless it's a special, the amount of commercials isn't always consistent. Also let's look at show guides like TV Guide they list shows by the length of the time slot they're filling, not the length of the show minus commercials. CRRaysHead90 | ^{Get Some!} 00:33, 21 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The timeslot isn't consistent though, it varies. Maybe it's a constant in the US, but in other countries timeslots vary, so calling a program with a 46 minute runtime an hour-long program is ambiguous. --AussieLegend (✉) 00:46, 21 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I get the feeling you're exagerating the inconsistency in other countries, please provide proof. CRRaysHead90 | ^{Get Some!} 01:04, 21 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Many BBC programmes are 58 minutes long to fill a 1 hour slot with no advert breaks. When shown on commercial stations abroad they can fill a 90 minute slot. Likewise 44 minute programmes from america are only shown on the BBC in a 45/46 min slot. Merlin and Dr Who are made to fill commercial stations one hour slot but only 45 mins in Britain except when repeated on commercial satellite station in the UK with adverts when they are on hour. Worse old 50 minute programmes like Randall and Hopkirk are cut to the 45 minute format to get in more adverts although there was such an uproar I think they now fill a 65 minute slot. Years ago an episode of the old Hawaii 50 was cut from 50 mins to 35 mins to fill a slot. So after my rant here I think running time should be the original uncut time as was filmed or as the infobox wants an aproximation to cover minor censorship cuts such as the series Hunted. REVUpminster (talk) 08:19, 25 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The Australian ABC is a non-commercial network, so all these "60 minute" shows are actually scheduled as 45 minutes as broadcast there. In Hong Kong, one network ATV is doing poorly in selling ads, so shows often run with few ads, especially late at night. (Even 60 Minutes is nowhere near an hour long.) Also, even in the US, the length of shows that are "one hour" isn't constant over time or between networks. E.g., HBO "one hour" shows might be 58 minutes long; in the 60s, Star Trek: The Original Series episodes are 50 minutes. By 2001, Star Trek: Enterprise was down to 42. So labelling all these as "60 minutes" would not only be incorrect numerically, but implies they are the same length, which is also untrue. And many people are now watching online versions of the shows, either legally or otherwise, and these are commercial free, or by DVD, and this is only getting more prevalent. The ads aren't part of the shows and aren't seen by all viewers anyway, and shouldn't be counted as such. Barsoomian (talk) 08:48, 25 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I noticed this template only allows to add the final air date after its happened. While this fine for shows that stop suddenly, however, for shows that have an announced end date, I think it should be able to be added. I mean it's already added to article itself usually so why not put it in the template too? I think having the article differ from the template in this manner only serves to confuse readers, if only slightly. Therefore, I propose the end date be opened up to announced end dates too. CRRaysHead90 | ^{Get Some!} 20:05, 20 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]