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I'm surprised that the "Distributor" parameter was removed for being useless but the "Picture format" and "Audio format" parameters are even less necessary. Unless an article is about the first TV show in color or first high-definition program, I really don't think it's important information, and most readers probably just skip over this information in general. These parameters just bloat the Infobox and provide unessential information. —theMainLogan (t•c) 12:41, 7 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Those format parameters are very rarely sourced in the article and are an attribute of the network or release method and not of the production itself. Basically useless information for the infobox of a television production and I agree they should be removed. When it is a production "first" it should be highlighted in the article itself. Geraldo Perez (talk) 15:37, 7 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I could get behind their removal, for the sole reason that if they are used, they are mostly unsourced. And as stated, if any of these aspects are notable for the series, they would hopefully be included and sourced in the body of the article. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 15:44, 7 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with the above points. - adamstom97 (talk) 20:12, 8 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The sandbox has been updated to remove these parameters, and you can see in the test cases how it would render versus the current live template. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 21:35, 8 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

What needs to be done to make the change in the template and get a bot to remove them from articles? Geraldo Perez (talk) 17:09, 13 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Usually just enough days to see there is no opposition to the removal. I'll add a note to the television WP about this just in case. Gonnym (talk) 18:29, 13 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

And once they are removed, it'd be a mere task of asking User:Primefac to run his bot which has a task to remove unsupported parameters. Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 20:01, 13 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Indeed; just waiting for stuff to get implemented. Primefac (talk) 16:08, 15 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The parameters have now been removed. Gonnym (talk) 10:49, 17 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I'm rather late to the party here, but I oppose the removal of these parameters. Picture and, to a lesser extent, audio formats make a large contribution to the aesthetic experience of watching a television program, certainly the aspect ratio has a huge impact. I'd argue this information is just as important as other parameters in this template.

I disagree that these parameters are not a function of the production, at least in part. The production results in material with a certain resolution, aspect ratio, number of sound channels, etc., which are sometimes then modified or constrained by network or release method (downscaling resolution, letterboxing aspect ratio, downmixing audio channels, etc.)

The main thing that gives me pause is that, as mentioned, this information is usually unsourced. I'd think in the majority of cases much of it should be verifiable, though? It's also not generally included in the body of the article, but I think this is a case where the exception at MOS:INFOBOXPURPOSE may apply: the more technical nature of format information would read unnaturally if integrated into the body's prose in most cases. MarioFanNo1 (talk) 00:23, 19 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

This proves a point I thought about but forgot to write in my proposal about only the most die-hard videophiles and audiophiles taking interest in this kind of information.—theMainLogan (t•c) 02:43, 19 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The thing is though that the production format may have little to do with the broadcast format the network chooses. The color formats NTSC, PAL and SECAM could be used for the same production depending on the country airing it. And generally for the years they were dominant sort of trite to even mention it as that was the only color formats used in the different countries. Likewise with HD formats 1080i and 720p which can be used for the airing the same production on different networks but could be produced in many different ways, including film, that could be converted to the airing format. What would be useful and interesting is the production format and setup. How aired is a network choice and is an attribute of the network and date aired. In a significant number of series I have looked at the information is just plain wrong and appeared to be added without any consideration or checking, just copied from some other use of the template. Or someone just added the information without checking if it is valid or not. I've tried to correct the 1080i formats listed for ABC, Disney, ESPN, Fox when I find them but that is an example of people not even trying to get it right and just assuming everything recent is 1080i (and maybe now 4K). Geraldo Perez (talk) 03:34, 19 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Whilst maybe the photo format isn't necessary for more recent TV series, I think the paramater is important to be kept for older shows which were filmed in that period from between when formats changed from SD to HD formats; if a show is only available in SD or was filmed in HD format earlier than other series from its time, it probably should be in the infobox. Happily888 (talk) 11:16, 22 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Could you give an example of such a show? Gonnym (talk) 11:38, 22 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, just noticed this now as I forgot to subscribe to this discussion and hadn't been pinged. Some examples of shows where the photo format information is helpful include Takeshi's Castle, Planet Earth, Friday Night with Jonathan Ross, and Bondi Rescue. Happily888 (talk) 04:42, 4 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Happily888 so I checked those articles:

• Does not mention in prose at all: Takeshi's Castle, Friday Night with Jonathan Ross, Bondi Rescue
• Mentions without any additional explanation: Planet Earth

This shows that either the information is not really important, or that after all these years, editors just used the infobox as an excuse to as an easy way to mention it without giving it any real context. Gonnym (talk) 09:24, 4 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Also - if these formats are notable for the show history then they can be talked about in article instead of being on every infobox. For example: Mister_Rogers'_Neighborhood#Broadcast_history which references: " The series' first season (1968) consisted of 130 episodes, produced in black-and-white. For seasons 2–8 (1969–75), the show produced 65 new color episodes each year. By the end of season 8, this meant there was a library of 455 color episodes which could be repeated indefinitely. Rogers and the rest of the show's cast and crew began suffering burnout from taping 65 episodes a year and in 1975, Rogers made the decision to take a break from the series for a few years. As a consequence, season 9 (1976) consisted of only five episodes." JohnRussell (talk) 04:30, 5 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Clarification: so with the above comments coming in later, is this removal on-hold? Or is it going forward? I know that @Primefac was going to run their bot, and pending that, I had added some regex patterns to my regular script that handles the maintenance categories. I had it running earlier, but put it on hold pending these additional comments. Or is there consensus to move forward with removal? ButlerBlog (talk) 20:47, 28 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Butlerblog: The parameters have been removed and I don't believe there is, or are heading towards, consensus to restore. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 00:30, 29 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks! That confirms pretty much what I was thinking. Just wanted to make sure I wasn't off base. I'll keep that additional script in then and move ahead with removing as I maintain other params. ButlerBlog (talk) 01:39, 29 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I was waiting until the above kerfuffle got sorted. If indeed that is the lone voice of opposition, I can start a bot run. Primefac (talk) 07:03, 29 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I'm late to the party - took the holiday weekend away from WP, and only realized this was happening because the bot ran again Miami Vice, which would indeed qualify under what @Gonnym was referring to (see https://www.nytimes.com/1984/07/09/arts/tv-series-to-be-broadcast-in-stero.html). There are numerous shows which were first or early adopters of their respective formats - including stereo, different flavors of surround sound, and varying video formats. It is noteworthy that the audio format is noted for Miami Vice in particular as it was a highly influential show for an entire era of television, as well as production techniques & shooting styles, usages of music, fashion & cultural influences, etc. Arguably - had a show of lower notoriety been one of the first to incorporate stereo sound - it may not have taken hold as firmly as it did afterwards.

While not directly related to this discussion - I am surprised that Distributor was removed because it was considered useless. Sorry - but that's nonsensical. Picard's Facepalm (talk) 15:58, 6 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The infobox history for Miami Vice shows that "MCA TV" was listed as the distributor, but the article does not mention that at all. If it's notable and important it should be added to the article (with a source). Gonnym (talk) 16:04, 6 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I didn't mean specifically for MV (that's reserved for the audio part of this discussion) - but that distro infobox info would be removed in general. Picard's Facepalm (talk) 16:23, 6 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion about removal of distributor is at the top of this page. Fairly strong consensus to remove it. Geraldo Perez (talk) 16:47, 6 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Additionally - having information like this mid-series change in video format would be nice to have at-a-glance. Now that information will need to be hunted for in the article. If we are going to start cutting this kind of technical information from the infobox - why stop there? Camera Setup seems to be even more trivial information than distributor, video and audio formats. Picard's Facepalm (talk) 20:04, 6 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

would be nice to have at-a-glance. Now that information will need to be hunted for in the article or as you can see in the article you linked, that information is not found in the article at all. The problem with these parameters is that more often then not they are unsourced and not mentioned even once in the article. Again, if that information is important, add it to the article. And if you place it somewhere logical like in a development or filming section (which that article unshockingly, does not have), then your readers will know where to look for it. Gonnym (talk) 20:21, 6 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I just think "Camera setup" → "Budget" sequentially makes more sense than "Camera setup" → "Running time" → "Production company" → "Budget". "Production company" should probably be at the end of the "Production" section. If you disagree, feel free to explain why. —theMainLogan (t•c) 14:10, 22 August 2023 (UTC) 21:03, 4 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Isn't the budget in the TV infobox only used for TV films? And...how many budgets for TV films are reported on? But to answer, I just don't see the point in moving it around. Mike Allen 21:39, 4 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The budget parameter is meant to be used for TV films and miniseries. I don't see any reason to move budget though, it isn't meant to be used in the majority of cases and even in the film infobox, the budget is below the production company/distributor parameters. Happily888 (talk) 03:39, 5 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

That Infobox also omits genre information. The two don't have to be the same. —theMainLogan (t•c) 20:52, 6 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I wanted to ask for comments on a potential change to this infobox. In recent years we have seen a lot of revived television shows such as King of the Hill, Futurama, Reno 911!, etc,. See our own List of television series revivals. Some articles will list an "original release" date range along with a "revival series" date range in the infobox, and many others will simply list a single date range for both the original release and revival run(s) which is labeled as the "original release" per the infobox parameters and the guide on the template page.

I find it imprecise and incorrect to label the two distinct runs of King of the Hill (for example) as one single original release because logic dictates that they are not -- over 10 years have elapsed between the cancellation and revival in that instance. Many of these shows were outright cancelled, not on hiatus, and there was a gap of a number of years in between runs. To label two distinct runs as one "original" release I feel is confusing and misleading because it gives the impression, from the infobox that the majority of readers reference for information, that the show was being produced continuously all of those years.

Yet, on the other hand, there's shows like Family Guy that were cancelled multiple times but renewed quickly thereafter and this type of change may not do those articles any type of justice and would be cumbersome.

I think that we should discuss modifying this infobox to create a parameter that would distinctly list the separate date ranges for original releases and revival releases and under which circumstances. I think that this type of change would promote clarity and uniformity across the encyclopedia especially for those television shows that went years in between runs.

I'm not saying that this is 100% the way to go but I think it's a fair discussion to have and would like to hear other editors' thoughts. Scorch (talk | ctrb) 12:41, 20 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I agree that the current method is (in my opinion) bad for a few reasons, those that you mentioned but also code-wise, we are creating incorrect data cells. The "Original release" cell requires a date range value and in the case of Reno 911!, the value "Revival series:" is not a date range. This also applies to "Original network" cell which should have a network value and not a network and date value. These issues can be fixed by adding |first_aired2=, |last_aired2= and |network2= (or other similarly named parameters). See Template:Infobox_television/testcases#Multiple release dates for a mockup. Gonnym (talk) 12:58, 20 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Gonnym This is a good point and it would easily assist us in clearly delineating different show runs across different networks (as happens often nowadays) while also fixing the data cell issue. The mockup you added looks good and I would definitely support such a change in that use case. Scorch (talk | ctrb) 14:12, 20 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I like it - it would clear up some issues when dealing with reboots. However, I can also see the possibility of abuse/incorrect use with regards to "classic" tv. Maybe I'm overthinking it, but I can envision fancruft involving the use of these parameters for listing runs in syndication. While it's easily to manually fix that, finding it is altogether different. (I wouldn't let that affect my "support" !vote for implementation, though; just throwing it out there for advance consideration.) Also, would such a proposal only be for reboots? Or what about where a series airs via multiple delivery mechanisms? For instance, some Disney programming airs using different date ranges such as being aired on Hotstar first and then later on Disney+ (or vice versa). I'm not sure if that's what Scorch is getting at, but I'm not sure how I feel about that one. It's difficult to manage (and validate). ButlerBlog (talk) 14:18, 20 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Butlerblog I hear your point with fancruft, but nothing stops fancruft editors from doing that now so I don't see that as being a future issue caused by this potential change. Syndicated runs are not new content or reboots/revivals so they should not be listed in this manner in the infobox. The different network parameters proposed above would be for specifying which network the revived series ran on, if different from the original network. For series that are distributed via different venues, I'm going to think on that one and get back to you because that is a very fair point to make here. Although I'm inclined to say that for sake of brevity and clarity that the network who ordered the episodes and those respective airing dates should be used; a situation where an episode may be "pre-released" on another related platform can be specified elsewhere because I would view that as a limited-release. Just my thoughts on that one but we really need more input on that because there's sure to be varying ideas.

Your point makes me think of what criteria would need to be set for using these parameters, like in the case I mentioned above where a show was twice officially cancelled then quickly reordered by the same network. Is that really even a revival or just a marketing stunt by the network? Instances like that would seem too cumbersome and unhelpful to list in this manner but there doesn't seem to be many shows like that anyway, so it might be a minor issue. Scorch (talk | ctrb) 15:06, 20 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

All sounds good - to be clear, I'm on board. I'm just trying to think pre-emptively about potential issues and/or management. ButlerBlog (talk) 15:46, 20 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Regarding your second question, my mockup works for any version that the show changed networks or had gaps in the run. So for a show that started on Hotstar and later moved to Disney+ the parameters in the /sandbox can work. Gonnym (talk) 15:17, 20 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I like the mockup. I don't see any problems if it starts on one network and then moves to another (a good example of that would be Longmire (TV series), which started on A&E, but after three seasons, it moved to Netflix for the next three). But my example/question was more of a situation where it's not necessarily a "move" - but rather when it airs across multiple platforms but the run dates are different. An example of what I'm thinking of is Miraculous: Tales of Ladybug & Cat Noir. You don't necessarily see it on the main article because we don't have parameters to accomodate it, but on the episode list article List of Miraculous: Tales of Ladybug & Cat Noir episodes, there's a constant process of managing improper use of the originalairdate and altdate values because it "airs" concurrently (albeit with different dates) in France on one network, on Youtube (I think), on Disney Channel, and on Disney+. So there often is a misuse of the date fields. With available parameters for multiple networks and dates, I can see the potential for something like that becoming a problem on the main article as well. Maybe I'm just overthinking it, and/or it's not really all that big of a deal. I'm just trying to think in advance from a management/maintenance perspective. Hope I clarified OK - and if not, it's probably that my ramble isn't really anything all that necessary to be thinking about anyway. ButlerBlog (talk) 16:03, 20 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Butlerblog That then seems like a wider, pre-existing issue with uniformity that would need to be resolved elsewhere. What's the current guidelines on which air date to use for programs like that? For me, common sense dictates to use the very first instance of the airing of the program.

For our situation here, we'll have to set criteria for when these parameters should be used and how they should be used, but I specifically had revivals in mind. If there's other potential use cases then that is okay, too. Scorch (talk | ctrb) 17:01, 20 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

a wider, pre-existing issue with uniformity that would need to be resolved elsewhere: Considering that parameter misuse is a contributing factor in discussions regarding removal (such as removal of chronology parameters), it is therefore just as much a valid discussion when choosing to add/modify others. My reason for bringing it up is specifically for the reason that you noted: we'll have to set criteria for when these parameters should be used and how they should be used. I'd agree with your thoughts that it that is should be specifically for revivals. ButlerBlog (talk) 17:48, 20 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

In general (as I didn't dive into how it airs in Miraculous), use the original country's network only, regardless if it airs on the same day in another country. In episode lists, some editors like to have the original US (or English speaking country) air date also which I don't think clashes with the guidelines (but I didn't check). If the show has several countries then it will probably have more than one valid network in the infobox.

In any rate, the documentation here will need to explain that the usage is for shows moving networks, or gaps in airdates after cancelation and revivals. Gonnym (talk) 18:00, 20 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Butlerblog I completely agree with your comments here, however we should take a look and see what guidelines there are regarding the issue that you mentioned; I haven't been around for quite a while and I'm not familiar with any. Do you know of any guidelines regarding which air date to use for those types of programs? Scorch (talk | ctrb) 18:43, 20 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

This discussion has died down a bit, but there does not seem to be any objection to the overall addition to the infobox. The issue that still needs to be resolved is when we will use the new parameters; under what circumstances should they be used? Other editors here, including myself, have commented that the new parameters should only be used for shows that have been revived by the same/another network and not for shows that air simultaneously on multiple networks. This does not seem to be in dispute.

I did raise the question that there are shows, like Family Guy, that have been cancelled then quickly revived by the same network (even multiple times). I wanted input on if these parameters should still be used in this situation. While I feel that using the parameters in this situation is precise, it also may be viewed as slightly cumbersome and irrelevant for the infobox; it is much more notable to include in the infobox a delineation for shows that went years in between runs across different networks rather than for shows like Family Guy. Scorch (talk | ctrb) 17:26, 24 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I personally would argue that if a show was canceled but was revived a year or two later, so that there is a gap of a year, then the proposed parameters are valid. So that 2010-2013 and 2015-present are two different ranges. Gonnym (talk) 00:40, 25 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with this. I'd like to see what others think before requesting the template be edited so that we can have a stronger consensus. Scorch (talk | ctrb) 00:49, 25 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with adding new parameters. I guess there are also questions of when to host the revival under one article, like Futurama, and when it should be separate, like The Twilight Zone (1959, 1985 etc.) Article length or number of sources can be a factor as well as the time gap, network etc. But where there is one article covering two different timespans of a series (cancellation, long gap and revival), I support listing the two timespans separately. It is misleading to say "2003–2022" for Reno 911! and its current infobox shows the reality better. — Bilorv (talk) 11:19, 29 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

New parameters added. Will update /documentation and will try and also get some tracking category set up so current usage can be updated with new parameters. Gonnym (talk) 12:54, 29 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

For now here is a search result that editors can work with. Gonnym (talk) 13:13, 29 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

(outdent)I have been working through Category:Pages using infobox television with nonstandard dates and have it down to two articles and three problems in total now. Candid Camera looks like it has seven different versions according to the infobox, List of Marvel Cinematic Universe television series was reverted with this edit, [1], and Parks and Recreation had the word Special added back into the field with this edit, [2]. Aspects (talk) 18:25, 30 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The MCU page is one of many franchise or film series pages that are incorrectly using the TV or Film infoboxes and abusing the parameters. I'll (sadly) add the 6th and 7th parameters and fix the Candid Camera one. Parks and Rec is ok for now. Maybe it's worth investigating if other pages have something similar and then add a parameter that allows editing the label, so instead of "Release <date> (special)" it would be "Special <date>". Gonnym (talk) 19:16, 30 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I was adding this mostly because I was dealing with an editor who was working with the page Korean News. That should be using this template, not {{Infobox television channel}}, as it is a TV program, and they were having difficulty embedding {{Infobox Korean name}} for an unrelated reason related to the TV channel template. Pinging Toobigtokale and Gonnym. Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 01:06, 30 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

What was the problem using the |native_name= parameter this template has? Gonnym (talk) 01:10, 30 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I wasn't aware of it, and they were using the wrong template. (The TV channel infobox doesn't have it and neither do its architecture siblings.) Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 01:38, 30 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hello! In recent years, Wikimedia Commons has been significantly replenished with files dedicated to various television programs from around the world, however, in various language Wikipedia articles, the corresponding line was not built into the TV show template card. Should the TV show card have a category on Wikimedia Commons, like TV series, TV channels and films? MasterRus21thCentury (talk) 18:24, 31 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

This isn't Commons so we can't really help you here. You should have that discussion there. Gonnym (talk) 07:31, 15 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Eurovision Song Contest has introduced a new permanent slogan "United by Music". It might be better to add a subheader theme parameter like in Template:Infobox song contest shown in Eurovision Song Contest 2024. Smthngnw (talk) 19:09, 16 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

But why do we need the slogan? Gonnym (talk) 19:28, 16 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

To maintain the consistency of slogan presentation format for television and song contest infoboxes. Smthngnw (talk) 20:38, 16 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

But, to state again, why do we need the slogan in the television infobox? Seems perfectly well suited to the song contest one, as that seems as far as I can tell the only real applicable use for it. No other television programming would have "theme" so this would be catering to a super small subset of articles. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 20:50, 16 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I honestly don't even think it has any sort of value in Eurovision Song Contest 2024 either. What does "United by Music" even mean? That's just a stupid marketing term someone there thought of. It's the same contest each year. Gonnym (talk) 22:57, 16 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The slogans for the ESC had been a significant part of the shows like the logo in terms of representation, broadcasting and marketing. Since the introduction of the permanent slogan from now on the whole show keeps the same slogan. I don't see a problem in keeping the consistency between an annual contest page and the main page when they both have a permanent theme. Smthngnw (talk) 07:35, 17 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Because it's a marketing gimic. It has no actual value. Gonnym (talk) 08:07, 17 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Aren't logos also used for marketing gimic? If absolutely anything is related with promoting, it should be prohibited to demonstrate it as a part of the show? Smthngnw (talk) 08:19, 17 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Logos also identify the subject of the article. You'll notice we also don't place the images of all logos in articles if they aren't relevant and usually have only one. I didn't say it's prohibited. If you and others think it's relevant information to the article, then add it. It's certainly not key facts that appear in the article per MOS:INFOBOX. That said, if you get consensus here to add it, then who am I to say no. I'm just voicing my opposition. Gonnym (talk) 09:01, 17 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I'll reiterate my stance. Fine for the song contest infobox as it fits in that scope, not so much for the television one. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 16:23, 17 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I found out that the related box got removed accidentally on the table. I just noticed since it just disappeared with no consensus. BaldiBasicsFan (talk) 06:22, 27 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I believe this was a mistake made in this change by Gonnym, "Related" was changed to header60 but {{{related|}}} is still at data51. If that is changed to data61 it should fix the display error for the Related header. - adamstom97 (talk) 04:13, 28 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for that. Should be fixed now. Gonnym (talk) 09:18, 28 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

This template presently uses terminology associated with linear broadcasting, which makes certain applications in the streaming era feel a bit incorrect. Is Disney+ or Netflix a television network? No, it is not, it is a streaming service. Is it a broadcaster? To an extent, and in certain countries, they sort of are. But either way, the use of "network" in this context feels outdated and not reflective of the current multi-platform nature of television programming. ViperSnake151  Talk  01:05, 1 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

So what is your proposal. Replace with what? Gonnym (talk) 09:41, 21 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I was opening this thought for discussion for what would be best appropriate. I would prefer to find a consensus first. ViperSnake151  Talk  04:31, 22 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

What you are describing can be trivially solved by substituting via a new parameter like "streaming premiere = yes", which would replace "Network:" to "Streaming service:". Or another option is to simply change the label to "Premiered on:". But the problem is that the template itself is called "Television" and probably something should be done with that too, considering that it is been used for web series for quite a long. Solidest (talk) 16:58, 22 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

no idea if this is possible, but could do something like if network is set to a streaming service, then automatically change network to streaming service, so don't need to manually add that parameter Indagate (talk) 17:09, 22 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Probably the easiest is to add |streaming= which if used instead of |network= will change the label to "Streaming service". Gonnym (talk) 18:26, 22 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Adding one parameter that suppresses the display of another and creates the presence of parameters hidden in the code is always a messy solution tho. Solidest (talk) 19:21, 22 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

It is quite easy to do for a single service listed, but also not really optimal, because you will have to specify in the code a full list of all possible names and make the code heavier if (1) several services are listed at once, (2) service changes the name that requires regular code updates (but the list could be maintained in the separate sub-template), (3) clean different spelling variations - such as refs, year ranges or other notices. For simple cases when there is only 1 wikilinked service listed the solution will look like this:

{{#switch:{{lc:{{delink|{{{network|}}}}}}}|netflix|hbo max|max|hulu|...hundred of others...=Streaming service|#default=Network}} Solidest (talk) 19:40, 22 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

This all feels unnecessary. Readers understand what a "network" is, whether you are watching it on linear broadcast, cable, or through streaming. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 21:44, 22 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Agree with Favre1fan93 that this is a solution looking for a problem. —Joeyconnick (talk) 00:08, 30 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I'd be opposed to having a list that we need to maintain. Gonnym (talk) 11:11, 24 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Ditto for me on both counts. ButlerBlog (talk) 13:32, 24 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I think the "Premiered on" option is the best option. It's neutral, and makes sense ("premiered on NBC"/"premiered on Max"/"all episodes premiered on Netflix on (date)"). ViperSnake151  Talk  00:51, 30 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hi everyone! I'd love to discuss and hopefully add the field 'Casting Director' to the television Infobox so that the 55,000+ pages on television series and films can be updated to include this job role which is a pivotal role in all productions. It would be great to add it to any infobox that deals with tv and film but also theatre too. Often a role that is overlooked, but is a core department and if we can list cinematographers, we can also list casting directors. Someone like Nina Gold is a huge casting director known for casting some of the biggest productions in TV & film. Yes she has her own page, but it would be even nicer to be able to edit and add her on all the individual pages that she has worked on. Is something like this doable? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.18.244.8 (talk) 21:10, 1 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

We can't list all production roles in the infobox otherwise it gets exhaustive. In many instances the crew that is listed in infoboxes is not cited elsewhere in the article (which generally should be done) and casting directors, unfortunately, are definitely less notable in that regards and would probably be even harder to reliably source. If there is a reason to note the casting director, it can be done in article. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 15:46, 2 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I would echo what Favre1fan93 said: If there is a reason to note the casting director, it can be done in article. Too often, editors (both experienced and inexperienced) focus on infobox parameters rather than article content, trying to fill in as many params as possible like they are completing a collection. Often, I see that take priority over actually putting it into the article. Infoboxes should reflect what is in the article, and that can be extrapolated to mean the article content is what is most important. If there's not a parameter in an infobox, fine; focus on the article content then. Yes she has her own page, but it would be even nicer to be able to edit and add her on all the individual pages that she has worked on. Is something like this doable? So the answer to your question should now be obvious. ButlerBlog (talk) 17:50, 2 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Why is first air date release now? Shouldn’t release only be for streaming and not aired on television? It should be original air date right? 120.28.248.11 (talk) 01:02, 4 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Even before the latest changes its text said "Original release" so no, it isn't a new thing. And personally I don't find any compelling reason to change it. Gonnym (talk) 06:05, 4 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Agree with Gonnym. Was going to state the same thing. The parameter label never stated "aired" previous, though users can still used the |first_aired= and |last_aired= parameters. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 17:02, 4 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I also wonder it used to be original release if it's on the first aired date. why is it only release now which is the same as a streaming series released which is also called released on the infobox? 216.247.18.33 (talk) 02:36, 5 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It used to be called "Original release" for all situations. It's now been changed to "Release" since it's now under a header called "Original release". If you have a suggestion for a better name feel free to propose it. Gonnym (talk) 11:05, 5 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

There was a bug in the infobox with |alt_name= which I fixed here. The infobox will now place the value of the text in italics if it is singular. When it is plural it won't, as lists can cause lint errors. These will need italics to be manually added.

Additionally, if the value has disambiguation (such as Another name (1999)), the template will handle it so only the text outside the parenthesis is in italics.

I'm working on a tracking category for the plural cases so those can be fixed.

Testcases can be found here. Please let me know if you see anything that needs to be fixed.

I'll update the live code in a few days if no issues are reported. Gonnym (talk) 19:32, 20 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

An issue that probably will arise and will need fixing, is that if an alt title already uses italics, it will now have 4 ' and will be in bold with an extra one on each side. Gonnym (talk) 12:04, 21 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

A tracking category can be added to the |plural= section of the Pluralize template transclusion. – Jonesey95 (talk) 14:30, 21 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I'll probably add a tracking category to find plural usages that need fixed. Those are done over at Module:Infobox television as the logic gets more complicated than template syntax can handle. I just need to think how best to catch entries of a list (still hoping to find some template or module out there that will save me writing that code:) ) Gonnym (talk) 15:10, 21 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

OK, code written to handle plurals without italics and singular with italics. Will make this code live this week. Gonnym (talk) 11:30, 22 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

For Seasonal shows Like Bigg Boss , It is best to add slogan of the season as the image caption in infobox television. For Long time it used to be like that, but yesterday one of the member removed slogan from all edition of Bigg Boss in multiple languages. I Request all Members to propose their suggestions below. Alen Hermen (talk) 08:40, 24 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

To add a bit information to this. This discussion was supposed to be held at Template talk:Infobox television season and not here as it concerns that infobox. Regarding the actual issue, the slogan was used inside |caption= resulting in information that is not relevant to the image at all (a standard Bigg Boss logo). This has also MOS:ACCESSABILITY issues as we're setting screen readers to give incorrect information to their users. I am the editor that removed this usage which was used on exactly 10 articles. Gonnym (talk) 11:43, 24 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The slogan strikes me as off topic. At best it's irrelevant, and at worst it's WP:PROMO. If the slogan has received significant coverage in reliable sources, it can be covered in the body of the article itself. Shooterwalker (talk) 16:32, 2 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Gonnym's point about accessability makes a lot of sense. I see no reason to include it as a separate parameter, and it would be ripe for abuse were it included. I'd be a hard "oppose" if this came up for official discussion/comment. ButlerBlog (talk) 16:47, 2 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Here's a question regarding {{infobox television}}, seeking input from experienced television editors and template editors. Suppose a show is co-produced (i.e. funded) by an American company like CW, but it's entirely produced/filmed in Canada. When it airs simultaneously in Canada and the US on different networks and (possibly) different air dates, what's the appropriate protocol for listing the |network= and |first_aired=/|last_aired= values? Should we use |network= and |network2=, or would it make more sense to use a plainlist for the multiple networks (considering it's essentially simultaneous, not a reboot or network change)? ButlerBlog (talk) 17:20, 2 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

If the show is a co-production then use plainlist. If it was just produced in Canada that doesn't mean anything. Arrowverse shows were filmed in Canada but they are only American. Gonnym (talk) 18:25, 2 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]