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Messing damages his own argument by saying that the the Nazi symbol had an "Asian source", contradicting the supposed transmutation of the Christian cross. More importantly, Messing loses track of the great array of writers who trace the swastika from Asia to Nazi Germany, leaving a clear path of how the swastika was already being used in Germany by ''völkisch'' nationalist movements before Hitler adopted it for Nazism. The Asian provenance is damning to Messing's assertion about the hooked cross. [[User:Binksternet|Binksternet]] ([[User talk:Binksternet|talk]]) 08:14, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
Messing damages his own argument by saying that the the Nazi symbol had an "Asian source", contradicting the supposed transmutation of the Christian cross. More importantly, Messing loses track of the great array of writers who trace the swastika from Asia to Nazi Germany, leaving a clear path of how the swastika was already being used in Germany by ''völkisch'' nationalist movements before Hitler adopted it for Nazism. The Asian provenance is damning to Messing's assertion about the hooked cross. [[User:Binksternet|Binksternet]] ([[User talk:Binksternet|talk]]) 08:14, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
:The German name of Hitler's emblem:<br>{{talkquote|And his greatest animus, in the immediate postwar period, was reserved for the word '''Hakenkreuz (hooked cross)''', the symbol adopted as an emblem by Hitler’s fledgling Nazi party as early as 1920.|source={{cite journal|journal= Critical Inquiry|title=Avant-Garde in a Different Key: Karl Kraus's The Last Days of Mankind|volume=40|number=2|publisher=Univ. of Chicago Press|doi=10.1086/674117|url=https://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/abs/10.1086/674117}}}}<br>The German word for swastika, which mean "hooked cross":<br>{{talkquote|Instead, we now see them head on, from an elevated perspective, as they stand frozen in place at the very crux of a '''''Hakenkreuz''''' (given the title of the piece it is important to recall that the German word for swastika literally means '''"hooked cross"''').|source={{cite book|url=https://books.google.ca/books?id=JkE8SE-y3uwC|page=58|publisher= Stanford University Press|year=2006|author= Michael G. Levine|isbn= 0804755558|title= The Belated Witness: Literature, Testimony, and the Question of Holocaust Survival}}}}<br>Nazi party's swastika was the German ''Hakenkreuz'' lit. "hooked cross":<br>{{talkquote|The country’s name is a pun on ptomaine that is as clever as it is revealing. Chaplin’s verbal satire of the megalomaniacal dictator centers on Hitler’s speeches, delivered as linguistic nonsense of Chaplin’s own invention. His visual ridicule of the Nazis is equally sophisticated. The swastika, the German '''Hakenkreuz'''—literally, '''“hooked cross”'''—has become the Tomainian Double Cross.|source={{cite book|publisher=Ohio State University Press|isbn= 9780814208649|title= The Roman salute: cinema, history, ideology|page=7|oclc= 255142712|url=https://kb.osu.edu/handle/1811/36506|author= Winkler, Martin M.}}}}{{pb}}The sources evidently state Nazi's swastika was the German ''Hakenkreuz'' which translates to "hooked cross". [[User:WikiLinuz|<span style="font-family:Optima;color:#292928;">WikiLinuz</span>]] ([[User_talk:WikiLinuz|<span style="font-family:Optima;color:#292928;">talk</span>]]) 09:04, 28 November 2021 (UTC)

Revision as of 09:04, 28 November 2021

Former featured articleSwastika is a former featured article. Please see the links under Article milestones below for its original nomination page (for older articles, check the nomination archive) and why it was removed.
Main Page trophyThis article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page as Today's featured article on May 1, 2005.
Article milestones
DateProcessResult
December 3, 2003Featured article candidateNot promoted
April 2, 2005Featured article candidatePromoted
September 13, 2007Featured article reviewDemoted
June 13, 2010Featured article candidateNot promoted
June 16, 2010Good article nomineeNot listed
Current status: Former featured article

Template:Vital article

Why is a Christan Cross being called a swastika?

Can someone explain why the Nazi Christian origin cross being called a swastika? The Germans never called it swastika , swastika is a Sanskrit word belonging to dharmic religions. In both linguistic, culture and usage it's alien to the Nazi hooked Cross.

This is like saying the Bible is the quran because they are books and Square. GhostIn$hell (talk) 08:20, 2 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

GhostIn$hell, did you read the article at all? As far as I can see, it eexplains it pretty well. Oh, see also Abrahamic religion, aka the faiths of the book. Guy (help! - typo?) 08:29, 2 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I'm pointing to the obvious , Logically they should not be classified as the same, swastika is defacto alien to the Nazi hooked cross.

It makes no sense, it's like saying Hindu 6 point start symbol is same as the Jewish star of David , just because they are stars.

My point is the Nazi hooked cross should not be called a Nazi swastika .it's very intentionally misleading. GhostIn$hell (talk) 08:49, 2 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia does not "right great wrongs", nor lead the way in political corectness. Wikipedia reports what scholars are saying. Every source written in English refers to the Nazi symbol as a swastika. It would actually be misleading if we were to use any other term. IdreamofJeanie (talk) 12:34, 2 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
GhostIn$hell is completely wrong here. The idea is nonsense, that the hakenkreuz and the swastika are somehow different. They are not different; every scholar describes them as the same thing. GhostIn$hell's suggestion is one that was promoted by Libertarian attorney Rex Curry of Florida, who wrote fake histories about the symbol on his website. He was blocked as Special:Contributions/Rexcurrydotnet in 2005. His website at rexcurry dot net was blacklisted here. I search of that website on the Wayback Machine shows how batshit crazy are his ideas. There is no earthly good that can come from using his ideas on Wikipedia. Binksternet (talk) 15:11, 2 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
"The Germans never called it swastika" There's part of your problem. What the Germans called it is irrelevant, because this is the English language Wikipedia, and we (including the historians that write our reliable source material) call the Hakenkreuz the Swastika all the time. Britmax (talk) 15:57, 2 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Also: the Germans did sometimes call it a swastika, including Hitler himself. If you're curious, see the section where he discusses designing the Nazi flag in Mein Kampf. Just one more case of cultural appropriation by Nazi fuckwits. Generalrelative (talk) 15:46, 18 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
As far as I am aware, Hitler never uses the word "swastika" or anything like it in the German original of Mein Kampf. He does, however, use "Hakenkreuz" several times. Perhaps you are referring to the various English translations.Tewdar (talk) 16:50, 23 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Where did Hitler call it by the Indic name? ChandlerMinh (talk) 13:48, 4 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Please read all those various comments above. It does not matter what Hitler, Mussolini, or Julius Ceasar called the symbol. The English language Wikipedia uses the English language (the clue is in the name) and English language sources universally call this symbol a swastika. IdreamofJeanie (talk) 15:54, 4 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

So, by the same logic plus and multiple symbol should be same as it resembles. Just because some dumb translater not able to find any correct name, that person holds no authority to misguid. Wikibreaks (talk) 16:11, 17 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

No, we are not going to figure it all out by applying logic. When has the English language ever been logical? Wikipedia is built on WP:SECONDARY sources. We will use such sources and follow their style. Binksternet (talk) 17:20, 17 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Stone walls in Iran

Basp1, let's talk about what you are trying to do here. This edit of yours cannot stand because of all the "citation needed" tags and disputed text you restored. That stuff must stay out.

Your specific text appears to be the following:

Pre-historic stone wall in Iran

In some mountain in Iran, there are swastikas or spinning wheels on the stone walls of the mountains, which are estimated to be more than 7,000 years old. One of these graffiti is in Khorashad, Birjand, on the holly wall called Lakh Mazar. At least one of its swastikas has survived. Numerous shapes and graffiti have been drawn on Lakh Mazar, some have been destroyed by subsequent or deliberate drawings in next periods specially in Islamic era.

Your reference is Parssea website from 2014: https://parssea.persianblog.ir/Dvbe4xKanwIp7mnqw7yn-%D9%86%D9%82%D8%B4-%D8%AC%D9%87%D8%A7%D9%86%DB%8C-%D8%B3%D9%88%D8%A7%D8%B3%D8%AA%DB%8C%DA%A9%D8%A7-%D8%AF%D8%B1-%DA%AF%D9%86%D8%AC%DB%8C%D9%86%D9%87-%D9%87%D8%A7-%D8%8C-%D8%A8%D8%AA%D9%87%D8%A7-%D9%88-%D9%81%D8%B1%D8%B4-%D8%A7%DB%8C%D8%B1%D8%A7%D9%86%DB%8C

The reference has "blog" in the URL, so I'm wondering if it is a personal blog or a department of a magazine. I used Google translate to inspect parts of the page, and I did not find all of the facts you inserted in the article.

Another point is that the parts about "survived" and "destroyed" are not important here. It's enough that a scholar says they were there. Binksternet (talk) 01:30, 20 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  • greetings . all have mentioned in the book by the archeologist labaf khaniki:
  • the book survey of lakh mazar[1]

is in persian and unfortunately you can not access it but part of the book have published in the above link of parssea.so this is why i mentioned the link of parssea.

  • [2]
  • survey of lakh mazar[3]
  • survey of lakh Mazar [4]
  • swastika in Iran [5]

please see : Lakh Mazar also Tall-i Bakun 02:39, 20 April 2021 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Basp1 (talk • contribs)

Short description

@John Maynard Friedman: Can you please explain how this [6] description is better than the previous one? LearnIndology (talk) 16:31, 25 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@LearnIndology: Thank you for your polite challenge. Actually I don't really believe that it is an improvement but WP:HOWTOSD insists that the maximum length of a short description is 40 characters: my version is the best I could do within that limit. At Wikipedia talk:Short description#Conclusion, I argued without success for a more useful length. Feel free to add your voice there if you feel strongly about it. Or try to write a better haiku :-)--John Maynard Friedman (talk) 19:58, 25 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for the clarification. I have updated the description. LearnIndology (talk) 18:27, 26 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Hakencruz

Why is it called a swastika Why Not a haken Cruz It's an inverted church cross Not a hindu symbol IRONCULT117 (talk) 10:38, 4 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

It's a swastika because virtually all of the English-language sources use that term. Binksternet (talk) 12:40, 4 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
and it was a Hindu symbol long before Hitler appropriated it. --John Maynard Friedman (talk) 12:53, 4 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Simon D. Messing's letter to the editor

In this letter to the editor written in 1976, Simon D. Messing responds to an article by Shiloh published in an earlier issue of Current Anthopology. Messing says that Shiloh should not try to analyze Nazi phenomenon alone, that it takes a large interdisciplinary team to get hold of every aspect. But Messing is just as guilty himself.

Messing writes that Hitler "transmuted the Christian cross to the hooked cross, representing the Hakenkreuz as a modern cross which would lead its followers to inevitable victory. (It was never called a swastika, perhaps to avoid giving credit to its Asian source or to emphasize the Kreuz part.)"

Messing damages his own argument by saying that the the Nazi symbol had an "Asian source", contradicting the supposed transmutation of the Christian cross. More importantly, Messing loses track of the great array of writers who trace the swastika from Asia to Nazi Germany, leaving a clear path of how the swastika was already being used in Germany by völkisch nationalist movements before Hitler adopted it for Nazism. The Asian provenance is damning to Messing's assertion about the hooked cross. Binksternet (talk) 08:14, 28 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The German name of Hitler's emblem:

And his greatest animus, in the immediate postwar period, was reserved for the word Hakenkreuz (hooked cross), the symbol adopted as an emblem by Hitler’s fledgling Nazi party as early as 1920.
— "Avant-Garde in a Different Key: Karl Kraus's The Last Days of Mankind". Critical Inquiry. 40 (2). Univ. of Chicago Press. doi:10.1086/674117.


The German word for swastika, which mean "hooked cross":

Instead, we now see them head on, from an elevated perspective, as they stand frozen in place at the very crux of a Hakenkreuz (given the title of the piece it is important to recall that the German word for swastika literally means "hooked cross").
— Michael G. Levine (2006). The Belated Witness: Literature, Testimony, and the Question of Holocaust Survival. Stanford University Press. p. 58. ISBN 0804755558.


Nazi party's swastika was the German Hakenkreuz lit. "hooked cross":

The country’s name is a pun on ptomaine that is as clever as it is revealing. Chaplin’s verbal satire of the megalomaniacal dictator centers on Hitler’s speeches, delivered as linguistic nonsense of Chaplin’s own invention. His visual ridicule of the Nazis is equally sophisticated. The swastika, the German Hakenkreuz—literally, “hooked cross”—has become the Tomainian Double Cross.
— Winkler, Martin M. The Roman salute: cinema, history, ideology. Ohio State University Press. p. 7. ISBN 9780814208649. OCLC 255142712.

The sources evidently state Nazi's swastika was the German Hakenkreuz which translates to "hooked cross". WikiLinuz (talk) 09:04, 28 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

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