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Pulao in Sanskrit

Historic pulao only had vegetables and rice, no meat. The meat (especially beef/pork) were added in as the dish traveled west. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.73.28.110 (talk) 14:39, 11 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Potentia copyright violation and non-encyclopaedic style

On the history section, there are clear policy violations beginning on this paragraph:

"Uzbek Pilav – there are so many types, tastes and legends of this national dish. It is the king and masterpiece of Uzbek cuisine. No single fest or family event is celebrated without pilav. Each region of Uzbekistan cooks its unique type of pilav, as well as there are its own type of pilav for each event. Although it is not possible to display every single type of Uzbek pilav in a single page, we have listed here some of the famous types of pilav, with related photos and descriptions, that is worth to taste on your next trip to Uzbekistan."

  • It's clear this was taken from a webpage about uzbek food.
  • The style is not right and it doesn't even make a lot of sense in isolation.

83.165.97.105 (talk) 01:31, 2 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Highly biased

The P-dish is a basic rice dish. It is over ambitious to assume that this simple rice dish would have to originate in one place and spread. People in any rice and spice producing region would have figured out how to make flavored rice in myriad variations. It does seem apparent that everywhere the same dish is adapted to what was locally grow-able. The dish would have been prepare-able long before Alexander.

The origin of the word however could have a verifiable record in literature, possibly might be greek/turkish/persian/sanskrit/any of the oldest languages etc. There are many words that span Germanic, central asian, Indic, given indo-arabic-germanic trade-routes. The use of a word might catch on. However, in this article there isn't any citation or proof of the earliest use of the word of the P-dish.

This article needs a rewrite. Just explain what the dish really is and subsections as how each region has its own adaptation alphabetically in a neutral manner. The Etymology if cite-able, could be moved into its own subsection. The history is just concocted and might as well be deleted. Hgkamath (talk) 06:01, 8 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Separate plov from Pilaf

to the poster that says Plov is not used in English, Hes obviously not from queens,which has a large (Jewish)Uzbek comunity, Plov isnt just generic, it has a special recipe and a specific taste, trust me ive eaten it at over 20 restaurants in rego park. Shwarma,Donner & Gyro all have their own article despite similarity to eachother because they all have defined "standard tastes" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.72.241.66 (talk) 16:51, 20 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Comment

Method: fry spices - cardamom, cloves, cinamon - and onion; add DRY rice and fry until it becomes white, rather than pearly; then add liquid - preferably stock; cook until tender, adding more liquid as necessary. [Source: little old lady in Bombay Resaurant, Manchester ~1959] (anonymous) moved here by --Jpbrenna 19:13, 21 May 2005 (UTC) until we can move it to Wikirecipes.[reply]

Origin of the word Pilaf

The document says the following:

The word pilau is of Persian origin. However, in modern Persian, it is pronounced polo (پلو), with the first syllabe short, and the second long. Note also the relationship to Spanish 'paella', so it covers the whole extent of the Arab empire in its prime. The pilaf was probably a standard Moorish method for cooking rice - with no wasted water, important in desert regions like North Africa. It was likely introduced to the Balkans during the Ottoman period.

Yet the page for Paella says:

The name paella is the word for "frying pan" in Valencian/Catalan (from Latin patella). However, the dish has become so popular in Spanish that the word paellera is now usually used for the pan and paella almost exclusively for the dish. Paella is pronounced IPA: /pa'eʎa/, approximately "pah-EH-yah".

What's more, I distinctly remember reading in a tour book to a Central Asian country (Uzbekistan, I believe), that the word originates from greek Poluv, meaning "mixed" and was spread during Macedonian conquests. Is there any confirmation on the pilau origins? User:Bobby Isosceles

[http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=pilaf&searchmode=none doesn't trace pilaw to a PIE root, so it may be a loan into Persian from a non-IE language. Citing references for a definite Persian origin is the policy. I do not think it derives from a Greek word however. Alexander 007 13:44, 28 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Page seems misdirected

The page only gives a short discription of what pilaf is and to me seems like it is pretty much just about Persian rice dishes, not really very informative if you want to learn what rice pilaf is.

Merge it with the Plov article?

Plov is not used in English, but pilaf is a common food item in stores. -Iopq 06:42, 22 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

  • support merge, the topic is the same. Chris 02:32, 26 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Pilaf vursus Biryani

What's the difference between Pilaf and Biryani, since they both seem to involve the same methods of preparation/ingredients, as well as originating in the Iran-Central Asia- northern India region? Le Anh-Huy 08:39, 25 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

pulao doesnt use much spices, it is infact cooked with a soup called yakhni and i think the spices are not grounded and every spice is boiled in a pot in their original shape and made into a soup called yakhni. pulao tastes like a soup and rice is i think cooked with the meat. where as biryani meat is cooked separately from the rice, its like a thick curry and uses lots of grounded spices rice is then steamed with the meat and curry for quite some time before they are eventually mixed together. Pulao is an inferior version of biryani and here when one's biryani is not cooked well, its declared pulao.115.135.130.182 (talk) 13:59, 2 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Biryani is par-cooked in water, then cooked in a mixture of yogurt, spices, and oil. Pilaf isn't cooked in yogurt. Biryani is much harder to make. Themissinglint (talk) 00:33, 8 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

In Biryani, both the curry sauce (with meat) and the rice are cooked separately. Then layers of rice and sauce are laid in one big pot and steamed. After that it is mixed. Some rice are then white and some are colored. In Pulao, a much lighter sauce is cooked first and then rice is cooked in this sauce. yasirniazkhan (talk) 13:30, 8 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Pilau

Pilau is also a very popular dish in East Africa, though it has not been mentioned in the text. The dish has been brought there by indian settlers and arabic merchants, today it is a dish prepared and served on celebrations and other festivities by africans and Indians alike.--80.78.216.88 (talk) 21:44, 7 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Need a reference for this, can you find one? Kat (talk) 16:35, 5 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

What is Pnigouri (ground wheat)?

We have cooked from this Cypriat cook book for many years. I am now intetrested in buckwheat as an ingredient but it is not wheat at all. But pnigouri is a wheat, or is it? So could I use buckwheat in place of pnigouri is my question. 78.146.141.145 (talk) 11:12, 25 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]


Pilau = Paella?

Maybe we could note the spanish paella here? The same idea, close technologies - and almost the same names. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.224.214.145 (talk) 19:08, 17 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Polau ≠ paella, although the two dishes are very similar in cooking style and spice ingredients. Added link to "see also". Kat (talk) 16:36, 5 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Pilau = Paella. it traveled to Spain through the arab/ north African berber control of the area starting in the 7th century. Its the same thing....rice with meat (seafood). and vegetable the same dish. Jambalaya the Louisiana dish in the U.S is derived from paella. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Starbwoy (talk • contribs) 01:21, 21 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Tahdigh Deserves its own page.

Tahdigh should have a Wikipedia page. It is one of the most important pieces of Persian culture. I'm not saying I want to make the page, but, you know, make it a red link or whatnot.

origin of word pulao

the word pulao is derived from sanskrit palanna;pal(meat)+anna(rice),not your pulaka. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 14.99.5.66 (talk) 10:20, 31 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Can you provide a reference for this? For example, a link to the etymology of the words polow, pilaf, pilau or plov? Kat (talk) 16:50, 5 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I suspect we have an amalgam of similar, but separate evolved, names and dishes: pulao is an Indian rice with additional vegetables and, sometimes, meat, and according to an Indian chef on BBC1 this morning, derived from the Hindi word for yellow; pilaf is of west Asian origin, has the rice cooked with spices, and according to this article is etymologically derived from "lump of boiled rice". The concepts are now (at least in UK restaurants) inextricably confused with a compositesite compromise of a name pilau, but our article is dealing with things not very closely related simply because their names get confused. I suspect what it really needs is a knowledgeable editor to separate pulao from pilaf as distinct articles, with pilau as a disambiguator and hatnotes of mutual cross-reference in both. Kevin McE (talk) 10:43, 24 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Complete rewrite

This article contains so much original research, so many uncited claims and so much non-encyclopedian information that I deemed it beyond repair. Consequently I initiated a complete rewrite. I suggest appropriate information (images etc) be gradually incorporated from the old article into this one. ✎ HannesP · talk 11:40, 12 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Suggested Reference

I would suggest that the Oxford or Penguin Companion to Food by Alan Davidson be added as a reference. I'm talking about the 2002 edition ISBN 014-200163-5 (there is a more recent edition but I don't have it). The 2002 edition has an interesting and authoritative article on Pilaf by written by Charles Perry, a leading authority on Medieval Arab Cookery. Although I have not looked at it, another possible authoritative reference is Medieval Arab Cookery by Charles Perry, A.J. Arberry and Maxine Rodinson. --Bjdoyle (talk) 05:30, 23 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Main illustration

It may be just my personal taste, but I find that the previous illustration in the infobox had a much higher quality than the new one.

  • Previous
    Previous
  • New
    New

Is there a deeper reason for the change apart from the aesthetics? --Off-shell (talk) 21:17, 26 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Palaw-Turkmen pilaf section

what about adding it? http://www.turkmenkitchen.com/en/turkmen-pilaf/ and http://around-the-world-in-eighty-dishes.blogspot.com.tr/2012/06/3-turkmen-pilaf-plov.html

External links modified

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merge Osh (dish)

No reason it should be separate, nothing remarkable when all the variations are here.--Kintetsubuffalo (talk) 05:01, 21 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified

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Concerned about Deletion of Oxford and Cambridge references that state Iranian origin

Such deletions [1] of oxford, cambridge, etc. references can be considered as vandalism. Please do not do it. Researcherandanalyst (talk) 01:44, 7 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

  • The following references state that Pilaf or Pilau originated in Iran/Persia. [1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9][10][11]
  • The following reference states that there is zero evidence that pilaf or pilau ever existed in India prior to the Muslim conquests.[12]
With such strong references, there is no basis to delete/vandalize. Researcherandanalyst (talk) 02:37, 7 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  1. ^ The Oxford Encyclopedia of Food and Drink in America, Volume 1, p. 140, Pilau most likely originated in Iran, and it traveled to Europe and South Asia after the expansion of Islam. {{citation}}: Cite has empty unknown parameter: |1= (help)
  2. ^ Richard Pillsbury, No Foreign Food: The American Diet In Time And Place, Routledge, p. 69 {{citation}}: Cite has empty unknown parameter: |1= (help)
  3. ^ Petits Propos Culinaires - Issues 82-86, Prospect Books, 2007, p. 61 {{citation}}: Cite has empty unknown parameter: |1= (help)
  4. ^ Bon Appétit Volume 31, Bon Appétit Publishing Corporation, 1986, p. 206 {{citation}}: Cite has empty unknown parameter: |1= (help)
  5. ^ Food and Environment in Early and Medieval China, University of Pennsylvania Press, p. 195 {{citation}}: Cite has empty unknown parameter: |1= (help)
  6. ^ National & Regional Styles of Cookery: Proceedings : Oxford Symposium 1981, Oxford Symposium, p. 78, a Persian word meaning rice boiled with meats and spices." {{citation}}: Cite has empty unknown parameter: |1= (help)
  7. ^ The Cambridge World History of Food, Volume 2, Cambridge University Press, p. 1151, Islam gave to Indian cookery its masterpiece dishes from the Middle East. These include pilau (from Iranian pollo and Turkish pilaf), samossa (Turkish sambussak), shir kurma (dates and milk), kebabs, sherbet, stuffed vegetables, oven bread, and confections (halvah). {{citation}}: Cite has empty unknown parameter: |1= (help)
  8. ^ Cooking for the Senses: Vegan Neurogastronomy, Singing Dragon, p. 65, Pilaf originated in Persia, but then rice cooked in flavoured broths is a widespread phenomenon!
  9. ^ The Oxford Companion to American Food and Drink, Oxford University Press, 2007, Pilau likely originated in Iran, and it traveled to Europe and South Asia after the expansion of lslam {{citation}}: Cite has empty unknown parameter: |1= (help)
  10. ^ The Food & Wine Pairing Guide, Penguin Random House South Africa, 2012, p. 249, PILAU (pullao/pulao/pilaf) Rice-based dishes have their origin in Persia, from where they spread during the time of the Persian Empire, hence the many variations in spelling. The difference between this dish and biriani is that, in a pilau, the rice is boiled along with the vegetables, poultry, meat or seafood until tender, whereas in a biriani the various ingredients are par-cooked and then assembled in layers. {{citation}}: Cite has empty unknown parameter: |1= (help)
  11. ^ The Atlantic, Volume 271, 1993, p. 117, The low-country rice dish par excellence is "pilau," as the dish more commonly known as pilaf is called in Persian. The technique, like the dish, originated in Persia, according to Hess {{citation}}: Cite has empty unknown parameter: |1= (help)
  12. ^ The Oxford Companion to Food, Oxford University Press, 2014, p. 624, However, there is no evidence that rice was cooked by this technique in India before the Muslim invasions, and Indians themselves associate pilaf-making with Muslim cities such as Hyderabad, Lucknow, and Delhi
Please do not remove these facts. Facts should be respected as facts. Thank you so much for understanding. Researcherandanalyst (talk) 02:37, 7 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I will have to complain if there is zero respect shown to factual information and insight. Researcherandanalyst (talk) 02:38, 7 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Researcherandanalyst, Thanks for coming to the talk page, and kindly keep calm. Editors will look at it and change it if you are right. Give it a week or so. Also, the word is derived from Sanskrit pulāka. So, it might need to be written like falafel, so we don’t cause future jingoistic edit war. (Highpeaks35 (talk) 14:48, 7 January 2019 (UTC))[reply]
I don't have an issue with the sources saying that the origin of the word comes from the Indian word "Pulaka" meaning ball of rice, but as you can see from the above references, the origin of the dish is Iranian. Please see page 624 of this book [2] The Oxford Companion to Food where it clearly states this,
QUOTE: "Since the word has no credible Persian etymology, it might be Indian. However, there is no evidence that rice was cooked by this technique in India before the Muslim invasions, and Indians themselves associate pilaf-making with Muslim cities such as Hyderabad, Lucknow, and Delhi."
So we can keep the etymology as being derived from the Indian word "Pulaka" (meaning ball of rice), but in accordance with the references, the dish itself should be stated as Iranian/Persian origin. This makes sense as Basmati rice (used in Persian cooking) originates from the Indian subcontinent, but the actual technique of making Pilaf is 100% Iranian/Persian. Researcherandanalyst (talk) 18:41, 7 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Simple solution: Keep the etymological origin as it is (which includes the Indian 'pulaka'), which is already in a seperate section, all while stating the Iranian/Persian origin of the dish in the history section. Researcherandanalyst (talk) 18:43, 7 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Researcherandanalyst, after checking the references, I have no issues with it. However, we need a rewrite, since there is too many references now. Looks like spam, and Wiki has a policy against it. However, the lead might want to mention both theories of early Indian texts and Persian texts. I will let everyone pitch in. Again, I am not in opposition to all of it. We might want to tweak it further like it is in falafel. To mention the possibility of multiple origins with one most likely. As seen in falafel. (Highpeaks35 (talk) 22:46, 7 January 2019 (UTC))[reply]
Please read Wikipedia:Citation overkill. (Highpeaks35 (talk) 22:50, 7 January 2019 (UTC))[reply]
Also, the question is, if Iran is the sole origin of the pilaf. Are these references and statement below wrong or right? Why did Iran use basmati? Instead of a local rice? If not influenced by ancient India? (Highpeaks35 (talk) 22:57, 7 January 2019 (UTC))[reply]

The ancient Hindu text Mahabharata from the Indian subcontinent mentions rice and meat cooked together, and the word "pulao" or "pallao" is used to refer to the dish in ancient Sanskrit works such as the Yājñavalkya Smṛti.[1][2]

Edit warring on Indian origins

Hi Highpeaks35. I have no interest in Pilaf whatsoever, and I have zero opinion about the origin of the dish, but you are clearly deleting proper referenced material here in order to push your POV. If you have clear reputable sources stating that Pilaf is of Indian origin, please provide them, with links and quotes. So far, I don't see anything like that, appart from the vague sentence on terminology and tradition above: nowhere is it stated that pilaf originated in India. Once you have this kind of reference, the best you can probably obtain is to have a balanced sentence explaining that some authors also consider that Pilaf may have been Indian in origin, but certainly not delete all the references you don't like. "Reference overkill" is not a reason to delete all references and put your POV instead. You are also making false statements and insulting edit summaries, like "Junk references; could not even find a mention. Take it to the talk page" [3], but finally recognized that the references are OK once you were challenged and you actually checked "after checking the references, I have no issues with it" [4]: this is very improper. You have to cool down, here and on several articles. पाटलिपुत्र (talk) 06:36, 8 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

  • We can give credit to both India and Iran on lead or omit this mention altogether. While both views can be provided on section that it originated in India or Iran. Lorstaking (talk) 11:52, 8 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
पाटलिपुत्र please read WP:STATUSQUO. I will let other editors have their say. Neutral parties such as Lorstaking should take a lead on this. (Highpeaks35 (talk) 05:16, 9 January 2019 (UTC))[reply]
Galobtter, can you work with on this as well? I think it will be best if I don't get involved further to maintain neutrality of this article. (Highpeaks35 (talk) 05:19, 9 January 2019 (UTC))[reply]
Some new edits have been made that might have resolved the issues raised in this thread. You, Patliputra and Researcherandanalyst can review. Lorstaking (talk) 08:08, 10 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
पाटलिपुत्र, the new edits [5] have erased all of the sourced content. They wrongly say it is of both West Asian and South Asian origin, when in reality the sources say it is of Iranian origin and not a single one of them says it is of mixed origin. I really think this constitutes vandalism. It does not make sense removing sources and making stuff up. Researcherandanalyst (talk) 14:46, 10 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

New Lead Paragraph

I have altered the lead sentence to reflect two relatively reliable sources, the Oxford English Dictionary, 3rd ed, 2006, available online with subscription, and the Oxford Companion to Food, 3rd edition (OUP, 2014), both of which refer only to broad sub-regions of Asia, and both are quoted in the two footnotes in the lead. There is no reason to add anything more, especially by way of adding the contributions of present-day nations. Older editions of the OED were more geographically specific in attribution of origin, the later ones are not, as the first footnote in the lead demonstrates. I have also changed the Infobox image for reasons you will find in my edit summaries.

Parenthetically, the dish is of diverse origin, as such a dish necessarily has to be. As rice was domesticated in South Asia before it was in West Asia, there was, most likely, some tradition of cooking rice in stock in South Asia, which was adapted to a unique style of cooking in West Asia, in which the individual grains remain separate. The latter method was introduced back into South Asia after the Muslim conquests in the 13th century. Of course, we cannot state this in the Wikipedia article as it is speculation. The domestication of food and evolution of cuisine are complicated issues, and certainties of one age give way to uncertainties of the next, as more powerful, and more multidisciplinary, tools become available. In other words, if multiple authors with diverse expertise in DNA analyses, archaeology, paleo-meteorology, historical linguists, are writing scholarly articles on the domestication of one grain, older histories of all food, written by a single author, will be becoming less reliable. Best regards, Fowler&fowler«Talk» 13:41, 9 January 2019 (UTC) Revised: Fowler&fowler«Talk» 22:04, 9 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Please note that the book by K. T. Achya, Indian food: A Historical Companion, Oxford University Press India, 1998, may be less than reliable. The author has used a wide variety of sources, some quite old. True Achya mentions the Mahabharata, but he gives the name of the dish too, and it doesn't sound anything like "pilaf" or "pilau." He says: "The Mahabharata mentions "pishthaudana," a dish of rice cooked with mince meat. (cited to 28: Ghosh, Oroon Kumar, The Changing Face of Indian Civilization, South Asia Books - Minerva Associates (publications) Pvt Ltd, Calcutta, 1976, volume 2, p. 322) He also mentions other ancient texts, but cites very old references. For example: "About the 2nd century, meat cooked with rice is referred to in the Yāgnavalkya Smriti as pāllao-mevach (cited to 27: Majumdar, G. P., Some aspects of Indian Civilization, published by the author, Calcutta 1938, pp. 30–31) and the word palāo also occurs in early Tamil literature of a slightly later period (cited to 3: Iyengar, P. T. S, Life in Ancient India, Srinivasa Varadachari and Co, Madras, 1912, pp. 86–91) I am not saying, s/he is incorrect, but I think the full citation, not only to her/him, but also to the sources s/he is using, should be given. All three references occur on page 54 of Achya. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 12:37, 10 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ K. T. Achaya (1994). Indian food: a historical companion. Oxford University Press. p. 11.
  2. ^ Priti Narain (14 October 2000). The Essential Delhi Cookbook. Penguin Books Limited. p. 116. ISBN 978-93-5118-114-9.
source: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Pilaf&oldid=877727211

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