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Guy called kids beasts, and he in article he is portrayed as some kind of a contemporary Ghandi: "There was that moment when I realized I've put myself between beast and prey," Phillips said. " "These young men were beastly and these old black individuals was their prey, and I stood in between them and so they needed their pounds of flesh and they were looking at me for that." — Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.173.217.32 (talk) 06:50, 23 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

This is not based on facts "Phillips joined the Marine Corps, serving in the Vietnam War as a 'Recon Ranger' and Infantryman.[8][9][10][11][12][13] " All those references are not evidence that he actually served in Vietnam (as 16-17 years old?) but only that he says so.

So change to a more neutral and accurate:

"Phillips joined the Marine Corps and claims he served in the Vietnam War as a 'Recon Ranger' and Infantryman.[8][9][10][11][12][13] " — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.143.210.74 (talk) 09:26, 22 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The Washington Post issued a retraction re: Nathan Phillip's Vietnam War status. "Correction: Earlier versions of this story incorrectly said that Native American activist Nathan Phillips fought in the Vietnam War. Phillips served in the U.S. Marines from 1972 to 1976 but was never deployed to Vietnam." ^[1] Btakita (talk) 20:05, 22 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

He was a reservist and refrigerator mechanic and never left the United States. Excerpts from his DD-214 showing that are here: ^[2]. Here is video where he claimed he was "spit on" and "called a baby killer" because of his service as a "Vietnam times Veteran" ^[3]. This video shows him calling himself a Vietnam Veteran without qualifiers ^[4] — Preceding unsigned comment added by 73.71.123.106 (talk) 06:25, 23 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

It is also worth noting that Nathan Phillips has claimed Vietnam Veteran status while raising money and documentary filmmaker Maria Stanisheva claims that he resents his time as a student in a Catholic Boarding School. ^{[5] [6]} Btakita (talk) 20:05, 22 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Phillips, having served between 1972 and 1976, meets the legal definition of Vietname-era veteran. Some NEWSORGs did not understand the distinction between Vietnam and Vietnam-era, but Phillips seems to have been quite consistent in his stmts.Icewhiz (talk) 20:18, 22 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Phillips has characterized himself "as a Vietnam Veteran" ^[7]. One could give him the benefit of the doubt, as he qualified his statement by saying he "served in the Marine Core from 1972 to 1976", but it's easy to think that he is a "Vietnam Veteran" from him saying "as a Vietnam Veteran". Btakita (talk) 22:18, 22 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Documentary filmmaker Maria Stanisheva said "he was then a Marine in Vietnam" ^[8]. Go to 1:15 in the promo video to hear the quote. Btakita (talk) 23:08, 22 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Given the two sources that show Nathan Phillips and his documentarian claiming he was a Marine in Vietnam, one can claim Nathan Phillips mislead the public by statement & by failing to correct the perception of him being a Vietnam veteran (aka "Stolen Valor" - Stolen_Valor_Act_of_2013). Btakita (talk) 23:11, 22 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Although I agree with you that Phillips intentionally misrepresented himself, as shown by these videos with direct quotes, it probably doesn't meet the legal definition of stolen valor due to the "with the intent of" bit not being satisfied, unless one can show he was taking money using that status as part of the reasoning. ResultingConstant (talk) 23:23, 22 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

$6097 was raised on kickstarter.com to support the documentary about Nathan Phillips [6]. In the kickstarter promo video, director Maria Stanisheva makes the claim that Nathan Phillips "was then a Marine in Vietnam". A false claim of military service was involved with money being exchanged for the documentary. Perhaps Maria Stanisheva & associate producer Dorottya Mathe (who initiated the kickstarter campaign) are liable, since they received the payment; however they were expressing information told to them by Nathan Phillips. Perhaps a "controversy" is warranted? Btakita (talk) 15:27, 23 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I have added content to this page from a new article I created Indigenous Peoples' March. The content will be re-edited, summarized and/or rewritten.Oceanflynn (talk) 22:56, 19 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Nathan Phillips also starred prominently in the Skrillex video Skrillex & Damian "Jr. Gong" Marley - Make It Bun Dem which as today has over 380M views: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGpzGu9Yp6Y --85.16.193.80 (talk) 23:11, 19 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

He has not been verified as a veteran of Vietnam, either state that he is reported to be a veteran, or remove the statement that he is actually a veteran. 104.139.98.75 (talk) 12:51, 20 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done NYT, BBC, and multiple reliable sources are calling him a veteran of the Vietnam War. Click on the first two footnotes and see for yourself. Also see WP:Verify, a Wikipedia policy. First Light (talk) 14:26, 20 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I also would like to see verification of Phillips's claim to be a Vietnam veteran. Newspapers calling him a Vietnam veteran - even BBC, NWT, WaPo - is not sufficient verification of his service. Those publications might just be quoting him thus the articles are only evidence that he is claiming to be a Vietnam veteran. Until there is verification, the claim should be given the "Reference needed" citation, or the text should be changed to "claimed to be a Vietnam veteran". Llewkcalbyram (talk) 23:42, 20 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The articles say he is 64. He stated he joined when he was 17 and that he was in Vietnam 1972-1976 as a Marine. The last Marines left Vietnam in 1971. There were some in the embassy after that but it was first in-first out. It would have been impossible for him to enter the Marines in 1972 and serve time in Vietnam and it would have been even more impossible for him to be in the Marines in Vietnam from 1972 to 1976. For him to have served in Vietnam, he would have needed to enter at age 15 or under. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 73.71.123.106 (talk) 07:56, 21 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: The article currently cites five separate sources supporting this information. Please cite published sources that call this into question or contradict it. Otherwise, I think Wikipedia's policy regarding verifiability has been well and truly satisfied. Besides, an edit request is not the proper venue to make this request unless there is a clear consensus to make the change. Please discuss and reach a consensus on the talk page prior to reopening this request. ‑‑ElHef (Meep?) 22:12, 21 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Add as many circular resources as you like, if they did not come from the DOD - they are not sources, and thus not verified. There is ONLY one source for this information. There is a legitimate cause for questioning the claim, as detailed by previous editor. His age does not align with his claimed service.

Procedural closure of edit request - an edit request cannot be completed unless it is clearly uncontroversial or already supported by clear consensus on the talk page. See WP:EDITREQ#General considerations. Please continue discussion here on the talk page, and seek dispute resolution if you feel it is necessary. ‑‑ElHef (Meep?) 00:57, 22 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Thomas Wictor points out that Nathan Phillips' story about his Vietnam war contradicts the official US military involvement when he would have enlisted. There is no proof, other than what Nathan Phillips himself said (which is what cited sources based their claim on), that he was even in the military, let alone his claim of performing as a "recon ranger" in the Vietnam war. ^{[9] [10]} Btakita (talk) 20:06, 22 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The Washington Post issued a retraction re: Nathan Phillip's Vietnam War status. "Correction: Earlier versions of this story incorrectly said that Native American activist Nathan Phillips fought in the Vietnam War. Phillips served in the U.S. Marines from 1972 to 1976 but was never deployed to Vietnam." ^[11] Btakita (talk) 20:06, 22 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Please add the following text to the Indigenous Peoples' March section, directly after the end of Nathan philipps' quoete: Nartuladamaria (talk) 16:55, 20 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Nathan Phillips’ statement, “We’re not supposed to have walls here [in America]; we never did—for millennium” may be a reference to the ancient indiginous migration routes that spanned from northeastern Siberia to the southern tip of Chile in South America, roughly 9,000 miles. Scientific evidence has revealed that costal and interior land migration routes allowed Indigenous Peoples to migrate and settle across the Americas nearly 10,000 years ago when glaciers covering the Bering Strait began to shrink and recede. [1]

 Not done: You're drawing conclusions without supporting citations. Yes, Nathan Phillips made this statement, and yes, people migrated across the Americas. You'll need to cite a published source linking the two in order to put this in the article. ‑‑ElHef (Meep?) 18:16, 20 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

This entire page is COMPLETELY FALSE. Nathan Phillips is the student who is so rudely smirking at the Native American War Vet this page is referencing. Change it IMMEDIATELY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 2620:102:400B:8D01:C48E:6139:99E0:C017 (talk) 17:47, 20 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

No, Phillips is the tribal elder. Bkatcher (talk) 17:49, 20 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done incorrect information. Britishfinance (talk) 17:54, 20 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The account of what took place on 18 Jan 2019 is likely not true given other videos that have come to light about this incident. 47.232.88.36 (talk) 18:59, 20 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done. You need to request a specific change. That request must be of the form "please change X to Y" and should include the source(s) used to back up the change. --McSly (talk) 19:12, 20 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Another link should be added as a footnote #20 to this information on the Nathan Phillips incident at the Indigenous Peoples' March 2019 by a registered user. An additional paragraph should be added to this article on the 2019 Indigenous Peoples’ March, because several videos obtained from this incident have now been publicized on January 20, 2019. (see link below) Nathan Phillips and his group approached the school kids who were chanting cheers for their school. They did not “surround him” and threaten him as stated. All videos on this link show students stood there and smiled at them and danced to their drums while Phillips got right in one boy’s face. Please have a registered user add this information so the article is current. It can be footnote 20. 97.88.56.40 (talk) 19:44, 20 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done It is not about what you - or other people on the internet - think what happened. WP is only for high-quality secondary independent sources (Per WP:RS) such as NYT, Guardian, Washington Post etc. Many major news networks around the world have now covered this story and all express the view quoted by the high-quality references in this article. If these sources change their view, the article will change. As of 20 January 2018, they have not. Britishfinance (talk) 19:50, 20 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

As early as 1/20/2018 (Same day), and 01/21/2018 they have - based on information available at that time. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/20/us/nathan-phillips-covington.html https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/jan/21/new-video-confrontation-kentucky-students-native-american https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/social-issues/picture-of-the-conflict-on-the-mall-comes-into-clearer-focus/2019/01/20/c078f092-1ceb-11e9-9145-3f74070bbdb9_story.html?utm_term=.a8dc41b7a268

Today the New York Times published an article that gives a pretty good balanced overview of the Lincoln Memorial incident this weekend in which the views of both sides are represented. I am hoping that the people who have invested time in writing this wikipedia article will consider emulating it by perhaps toning down the emotional description of Mr. Phillips's role in the incident (note the NYT doesn't even mention the dog whistle of Mr. Phillips being a Vietnam vet) and adding in descriptions of the behavior by the Hebrew Israelites and the viewpoints of the boys from Covington involved in the episode. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/20/us/nathan-phillips-covington.html Llewkcalbyram (talk) 01:36, 21 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Nathan Phillips Lied. The Media Bought It. Please Tell the Truth That isn’t what happened. Phillips was the aggressor in the situation. It’s a curious feature of our culture that people aggressively seek to be victimized, go out of their way in hopes of getting punched in the face, but here we are. https://www.nationalreview.com/2019/01/nathan-phillips-lied-the-media-bought-it/ 24.119.208.238 (talk) 04:10, 21 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. DannyS712 (talk) 05:42, 21 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Following sentence should have <allegedly> inserted as noted.
He received national attention in America after participating in the Indigenous Peoples' March in Washington, D.C. in January 2019, when he was <allegedly> harassed by a group of high school students. 2601:1C0:4300:9470:E991:D643:EF86:A9E6 (talk) 05:50, 21 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Done. My primary opinion is that the whole Article should be deleted, unless and until someone can make a convincing case that Phillips is somehow noteworthy. The only question is: How long will it take before the Article is eventually deleted? I added the word "allegedly" 1) because that's just what you do in an encyclopedia where allegations and facts are uncertain, 2) evidence suggests that the allegation is false, 3) the Article is doomed, and that it's just a matter of time before it's deleted and 4) anything that underlines the non-noteworthy nature of the whole event will serve to accelerate this Article's eventual demise, and 5) someone else requested it.

Tym Whittier (talk) 22:15, 21 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

"On January 18, 2019 videos recorded at the Lincoln Memorial in Washington DC, USA showed Nathan Phillips being harassed by a group of fifty to sixty high school boys who had attended the coinciding annual March for Life;"

There is no video that conclusively shows Nathan Phillips being harassed. In fact, the extensive videos that have now been made public have destroyed Phillip's major claims regarding the incident.

- Phillips is quoted by CBS News as saying that the student shifted back and forth in order to block his path. The video shows the truth. The student is standing still and Phillips walks up to him and plays a drum inches from the student's face in a provocative and taunting manner. The confused kid simply stands still and occasionally smiles.

- “There was that moment when I realized I’ve put myself between beast and prey,” Phillips told the Detroit Free-Press. “These young men were beastly and these old black individuals was their prey, and I stood in between them and so they needed their pounds of flesh and they were looking at me for that.”

Another shameless, vicious lie that is proven false by the actual video. The "old black individuals" were members of a hate group (Black Israelites), were not old, and had been hurling racist and homophobic abuse at the children. There was no aggressive action taken by the children.

- Phillips claimed that the students had chanted "Build the Wall". The video disproves this. Phillip's close friend and fellow "activist" can be heard screaming "white people, go back to Europe" but there is no chanting about a wall.

- The Washington Post states "In an interview Saturday, Phillips, 64, said he felt threatened by the teens and that they swarmed around him as he and other activists were wrapping up the march and preparing to leave." Extensive video footage shows that Phillips walked up to the crowd of boys, who were waiting for a school bus.

In short, it is clear that Phillips can be described, at best, as an "unreliable narrator". What the video shows is perhaps in the eye of the beholder, but there is certainly no video that conclusively shows Phillips being harassed by anyone, let alone 50 to 60 boys.

This sentence should be removed. In addition, a fair accounting of the incident should mention the racist and homophobic slurs hurled at the children by the Black Israelites and by Phillip's close friend and fellow "activist". It should also mention that Phillips' major claims about the incident (listed above) are now known to be false. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:8A:500:415:54B1:E96D:6DB5:8B7 (talk) 14:25, 21 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I just sent a request for oversight of this article from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Oversight

It seems that there is consensus here that the article needs revision to present a more complete and balanced view of the incident involving Nathan Phillips as well as verification of claimed military service in Vietnam. People suggesting changes have followed protocol and discussed suggestions on the talk page rather than editing the article without discussion and perhaps starting an edit war, but the main author seems wither to have abandoned the article or to be unwilling to edit it to reflect the concerns of others.

Llewkcalbyram (talk) 15:06, 21 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I agree!! Coastiejon99 (talk) 05:19, 22 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Here are some sources from November 2000:

• https://www.omaha.com/news/nation/who-is-nathan-phillips-years-ago-omaha-tribe-member-said/article_6cc049c4-d6d8-5e3c-8ee6-939a203682af.html
• https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/lifestyle/2000/11/21/a-mourning-wake-up-call/c9fd1ab8-dfdc-42fd-a5b7-c9e8d3b3512e/

Both include details of his origins. --Dual Freq (talk) 18:23, 21 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Sources questionable. Needs to prove the man was a Marine Recon Ranger when there is no such thing. I cannot attach proof, as there simply is and never was any such job or MS. His age at the end of the Vietnam War would have been 17. Entire military career needs to be proved and is just based on Philip's story. Scoundrel13 (talk) 18:58, 21 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit semi-protected}} template. - FlightTime (open channel) 20:31, 21 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Does anyone think this anonymous nobody is noteworthy? I don't. However, if someone wants to assert that he is, they should also be aware that the details of the recent "media splash" have been clarified and it does not look good for Mr. Phillips, and that this Article might just as easily be reframed as an example of how the gullible Media is willing to publish allegations and lurid assertions as if they are facts, without checking them first. Second, I would also argue that Mr. Phillips "notoriety" could equally be attributed to his memeworthiness. I have one in particular that I like, depicting an image of Mr. Phillips, with the caption "Chief Crying Wolf".

I just think that it would be better for everyone all-around if this Article were "speedily deleted", since the only place it can legitimately go is towards mocking Mr. Phillips.

Tym Whittier (talk) 21:10, 21 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

"On January 18, 2019 videos recorded at the Lincoln Memorial in Washington DC, USA appeared to show Phillips being harassed by a group of fifty to sixty high school boys who had attended the coinciding annual March for Life; it was widely shared through social media, including Twitter and YouTube with one video reaching two million viewers in two hours."

Keyword here being "appeared". Since the "twitterstorm", several other videos have come out showing that Phillips had the choice of remaining where he was, a safe and respectful distance from the teenagers, but instead Mr. Phillips chose to engage with the teenagers by closing the distance between them (about 30 feet) to within 1 foot, while banging his drum in one teenager's face. Meaning, in terms of "who harassed who", Phillips clearly initiated the conflict. Many reliable sources are now "walking back" their original narrative of events, while other sources are ignoring the whole story, and pretending that it didn't happen.

Either way, any source used by this Article that does not reflect this new and updated version of the Narrative are by definition NOT "reliable", since they got the story wrong. Which means, in order to keep the Article, new sources need to be found to correct the incorrect and unreliable sources used in the Article's current version, reflecting a new version of events that will only serve to cast Mr. Phillips in a negative light, as well as the unreliable and inaccurate media that fabricated this story, and from there, this Article. All of this is an argument to speedily delete this not-noteworthy Article, IMO.

Tym Whittier (talk) 21:56, 21 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

https://www.greensboro.com/warning-offensive-language-full-video-of-covington-catholic-students-black/youtube_8383524a-d9b5-5c5b-a751-5e864a3ac645.html Redcanyonkim (talk) 22:01, 21 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. ‑‑ElHef (Meep?) 22:12, 21 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

There is no actual source material that confirms any of the claims of Mr. Nathan Philips. He makes extra-ordinary claims but he can't back them up with FACTS. For example: "Vietnam veteran". He does NOT provide evidence, dog tags, military reference numbers etc. Same goes for the claim as "native american". He needs to provide source materials, not just news paper clippings ( that is not evidence, or facts. People can claim anything but in order to make them true they need to provide the correct documentation). This is: no reference to military numbers and codes+ documentation, no reference to native american registers. This page was created on the 19th because it is FULL of biased references of known biased newspapers who came out that "they were wrong". Suggested approach: the academic approach: SOURCE MATERIALS ONLY. Secondary references are ok to add extra info but NOT about "claims of being Native American or Military personnel" that is fraud and diminishes the accomplishments and suffering that Native Americans and Military personnel went through.

Suggested edits: completely remove all references about "veteran, military service, vietnam, etc" and all "Native American" claims until they can be checked with registers and provided with correct photographic material that needs to be uploaded. Here are what needs to be changed and the "references" need all to be removed for being biased and unproven. Delete those sections or give the uploader 10 days the chance to load up the required info.: 'Bold text'Background and activism He was brought up in a traditional tribal home in Nebraska[1] of the Nebraska Omaha Tribe.[2] The New York Times identified Phillips as a former Director of the Native Youth Alliance, a group that works to ensure that traditional culture and spiritual ways are upheld for future generations of Native Americans,[3] and that he leads an annual ceremony honoring Native American war veterans in Arlington National Cemetery.[3] The Guardian called him "a well-known Native American activist who was among those leading the Standing Rock protests in 2016 and 2017 against the construction of an oil pipeline in North Dakota".[4]

Phillips was in the news in Michigan in 2015 when a group of students from Eastern Michigan University allegedly harassed him.[5]

In a January 2019 article in Indian Country Today', Phillips was described as a "keeper of a sacred pipe".[6][Notes 1][5] Another January 2019 article in the Washington Post described Phillips as a "a veteran in the indigenous rights movement".[7]

He served in the US Marines from 1972-1976. This was during the period the US was at war, but there were no Marines in combat after 1972. He has never said he served in Vietnam, he served during Vietnam War period. 2600:8805:3B00:24:A80E:C53F:C555:4DFF (talk) 00:23, 22 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Was he a "Vietnam-era vet", or did he actually serve in Vietnam? What were his dates of service, where did he serve, what was his MOS? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.248.247.218 (talk) 03:11, 21 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I agree that more information should be provided or that the sentence should simply be removed. As it stands, it seems designed to obfuscate rather than inform.

If he's actually 64(?) in 2019, as has been alleged elsewhere, Vietnam War dates might make him too young to have served (legally).

I can find no record of a military position "recon ranger". Are we spreading blatant falsehood? Please delete the military position until we can cite something besides his word. 50.35.67.82 (talk) 22:42, 21 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

References to news articles and media publications are not an indication or proof of military service. Coastiejon99 (talk) 04:08, 22 January 2019 (UTC) Vietnam Veteran Phillips served in the U.S. military during the Vietnam War in the Marine Corps as a Recon Ranger and Infantryman.[3][8][9][10][11] AcademicUniversalis (talk) 23:01, 21 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

So I looked into it and there is no way he was deployed in Vietnam, so the claim he was a veteran of the war is simply a falsely. He was 17 in 1972, the age at which he claimed he joined the Marines and at that time the Marines had pulled out of Vietnam. I would recommend removal of that portion of the page as well until he either provides more proof or until a source points out that he lied about it and create another section regarding his stolen valor. https://granitegrok.com/blog/2019/01/is-nathan-phillips-too-young-to-be-a-vietnam-vet here is a blog that summarizes the information and provides sources. 23:55, 21 January 2019 (UTC)~~

Joined Marines at 17?

I can't find anything in the Vogue article that mentioned he joined the Marines at 17 years old.

Where specifically in the article (not in the comments section) does it reference that?

— Preceding unsigned comment added by BneiBrakPhone (talk • contribs) 23:36, 21 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

"Born to an Omaha Nation family in Nebraska, Phillips was separated from his mother around age 5 and raised by a white family until he was 17, when he joined the Marines and served as an infantryman in the Vietnam War".[2] Snooganssnoogans (talk) 23:41, 21 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I removed the mention of the age, because it seemed unlikely, given that this source[3] says he worked jobs between the age of 17 and joining the Marines. Snooganssnoogans (talk) 23:49, 21 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Again, a news article or media input is not an official and accurate account of an individual’s military service. You need to provide that information or delete this inaccurate passage. Coastiejon99 (talk) 05:23, 22 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Recon Ranger??

Umm. There’s no such thing. And I find it troubling that a supposedly factual information website lists such a statement as fact, and that the only reference for the (mis)information is the testimony of Phillips himself. In addition, I’ve seen several reports that he was born in 1956, which would have made him 17 (at the oldest) on March 29, 1973 - the date that the last of the U.S. Military forces were withdrawn from Vietnam. Being that Elder Phillips supposedly served from 1972 - 1976, that would mean that he graduated Marine Recon Ranger school (if there was such a thing) AND gotten deployed to Vietnam as just a 16-year-old boy. Rather impressive. Or a fraud. You choose. JBlaski13 (talk) 01:05, 22 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

There is indeed no such thing. Phillips is obviously confusing two quite different elite units: the United States Army Rangers and United States Marine Corps Force Reconnaissance. That confusion casts doubts on his claim to have been in the Marine Corps at all. -- 1.129.104.42 (talk) 15:23, 22 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

• He says that he was "what they called" a recon ranger, not that that was his formal position; that's why it's in quotes in the article. The rest of what you're saying is WP:OR. That said, we could just remove the "what they called a recon ranger" bit, as it seems like only one source mentions it, and (unlike his service itself, which many news sources report as fact) that source just attributes it to him. --Aquillion (talk) 15:33, 22 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

• It seems simple enough to state that's what he claims (this has been reported in several reliable sources. At that point, the credibility of the statement itself stands/falls on its own merits without having to address the accuracy of Mr. Phillips' claim. Buffs (talk) 18:54, 22 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

the fact that "Recon Ranger" isn't an actual position in the marines should be noted as he calls it his "role" yet even in unofficial marine terminology is that term used to describe any role a marine does. A quick search pulled up no mention of it being used in the marines besides Nathan's usage. The fact that he uses that to describe his position in the military multiple times instead of his rank or actual position is just to glaring an issue to not at least explain that this isn't an actual thing in the Marines 4.34.191.66 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 20:53, 22 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

In the Vanity Fair article, Nathan Phillips is referring to his usual role during the prayer walks he goes on: "They were outfitted in head-to-toe camouflage, masked by bandanas printed with the word Resist, and bearing walkie-talkies. “I have a relative here who said he’d lead the way and scout ahead for us,” Phillips continued, his voice breaking. “You know, I’m from Vietnam times. I’m what they call a recon ranger. That was my role. So I thank you for taking that point position for me.”^[12] He never says he was a recon ranger during Vietnam times. Recon Ranger is a term they made up for the point person that leads the prayer walks they were regularly going on. He clearly says "I'm what they call a recon ranger." He does not say "I was what they call a recon ranger during Vietnam times." The confusion is understandable but there are hardcore Stolen Valor activists out to get him now because he and his friends invented a term based on military jargon for a role in the group they were involved in 40+ years as a civilian. The reference to "recon ranger" must be removed. Kire1975 (talk) 06:23, 23 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

• Another source reports: "Chase Iron Eyes, lead attorney for the Lakota People’s Law Project...told Indian Country Today, “The recon ranger quote was taken completely out of context. I’ve known Nathan a long time. He was speaking about his role at Standing Rock, he was not talking about his role in the military. He has always said Vietnam Times or Vietnam era when referring to his military service.”^[13]

Vietnam war veteran vs Vietnam era veteran

Is there actually any source where Philips has claimed to have served in the Vietnam war? In the Vogue ref. Philips states: "You know, I’m from Vietnam times. I’m what they call a recon ranger". In the recent Indian Country Today ref. he say" I'm expendable. You know, when I was in Vietnam times and when I was in the Marine Corps times, that's what I was." The magazine itself refers to him as "Vietnam-era Native American Veteran". This sounds like a Vietnam era veteran to me, but no claim to have actually served in Vietnam. According to our article on Vietnam veteran the official American definition says: "A Vietnam era veteran is a person who served on active duty anywhere in the world for a period of more than 180 days, any part of which occurred between August 5, 1964 and May 7, 1975", making no distinction between those who served in Vietnam and those who served elsewhere between 1964 and 1975. Iselilja (talk) 17:02, 22 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Following a discussion on BLP/n, seems he's been saying consistently over the years he is a Vietnam times/era veteran - not a Vietnam vet - however a number of different outlets were confused by this. WaPo printed a correction.^[14]

Added clarification; WaPo isn't the only one. Buffs (talk) 18:55, 22 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

• (Moved Comment from elsewhere):

This article reports that Phillips told them he served in the Vietnam war.

https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/2019/01/20/native-american-leader-nathan-phillips-recounts-incident-video/2630256002/

Phillips said he grew up in an abusive home, started working on construction and lumber jobs, and then joined the Marines, serving in the Vietnam War.

BneiBrakPhone (talk) 20:16, 22 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

That strikes me as another misunderstanding -- note that it also says he is a "former Marine." Seems like more of the same garbling in the press, though everyone's mileage may vary! Dumuzid (talk) 20:55, 22 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Also this: Mr. Phillips served in the Marine Corps in Vietnam from 1972-76.

https://www.toledoblade.com/frontpage/2007/07/02/Pow-wow-gives-life-to-past-and-present-in-Tecumseh.html

BneiBrakPhone (talk) 21:01, 22 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Given the controversy, IMO we at a minimum need sources which specifically quote what Phillips actually said. Or maybe go as far as to sources which explicitly note the controversy and mention that Phillips did say to them he was a Vietnam veteran (or whatever). A lot of sources do seem to have misinterpreted what was said. For example as noted in BLP/N, this CNN interview has been touted [4]. But the transcript doesn't claim to be verbatim, "Here is the transcript of Phillips' interview, which has been lightly edited for flow and content" and it's clear from the actual interview this is one area where it isn't accurate since he said "Vietnam times" [5]. While this is ORish, given BLP concerns and the fact it's clear sources have gotten it wrong, we need to be careful here IMO and simply excluding sources which are questionable even if normally RS is an acceptable option. Other then the Washington Post, this source [6] which was earlier used in our article [7] has also been updated (correction posted at the end although weirdly the wording doesn't seem to entirely reflect the correction). Frankly, the "recon ranger" thing seems far more likely to be contentious going forward. Nil Einne (talk) 05:27, 23 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Veteran?

We know that Phillips was not a "Vietnam Veteran" but has anyone been able to get an official source to confirm whether he actually served in any branch of the military?

Formally, one way to get military records on someone who was a veteran is by writing a letter or filling out a form with usa.gov but you can only get the info if you are the veteran or authorized to obtain that information. I spoke with Ted Puntillo, the Director of Veteran Services for Solano County in CA and he confirmed that and that you could also get that info from the VA but you would need the vet's social security number to get that info.

So, at this point, I can't get any info on whether Phillips was a veteran of any branch of the U.S. military. Couple that with his false statements about being in Vietnam and that he claimed that he was a "recon ranger" when there is no such thing as a "recon ranger", why are we taking at face-value that he is a veteran at all? Wouldn't it be more prudent and more accurate to state that he "claims" to have served and that he "allegedly" is a veteran?

Until we have proof of his true status and considering his false claims at the incident at the Lincoln Memorial, I would recommend that the article remove the favorable bias of Phillips having served. Obviously I can't make that change because this article is locked so I would appreciate some thoughts about this issue. Thank you. --Jtpaladin (talk) 23:35, 22 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I definitely agree with this. He seems to be consistently lying about his background, and given that he - at best - purposely misinterpreted what happened at the indigenous march, this section should be altered. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.81.208.233 (talk) 23:39, 22 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Military service info

FYI, in case this hasn't come up yet. Don Shipley (Navy SEAL) obtained primary sources for military status of Nathan Phillips. This twitter link has the pictures in case you don't want to watch the video. https://twitter.com/kerpen/status/1087881473225572352 Summarizing, entered Marine Corps Reserves, Topeka, Kansas. Active Duty for training, May 20, 1972 - November 3, 1972, Basic Electrician training, Expert Rifle Badge only listed decoration. Refrigerator Mechanic in Lincoln, Nebraska. Active Duty again Aug 12, 1974 to May 5, 1976. Discharged in 1976 as a Private, a handful of Unauthorized Absences/AWOL for a couple days in 1975, etc. Separated El Toro, CA. Nothing about Marine Recon or recon rangers, etc. Obviously, there needs to be 3rd party reporting by reliable sources for this, but Shipley is fairly well regarded in tracking down this info, basically that's why he has a wikipedia article. --Dual Freq (talk) 02:47, 23 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Interesting (I watched the video) and possibly true - but entirely unusable for BLP. Shipley for instance, to get to the records, uses a different name (Nathan Stanard) - and while people changing names is common - we need a WP:RS making this (which might happen given this story isn't dead yet). Icewhiz (talk) 07:13, 23 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The form lists both names but unless mainstream RS start reporting it there is nothing to add. PackMecEng (talk) 14:59, 23 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Infantryman in the Vietnam War

Born to an Omaha Nation family in Nebraska, Phillips was separated from his mother around age 5 and raised by a white family until he was 17, when he joined the Marines and served as an infantryman in the Vietnam War.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/power-nathan-phillips-apos-song-161810017.html ^[1]

As far as anything out there, he does not appear to ever be an Infantryman anywhere.

BneiBrakPhone (talk) 16:17, 23 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Interesting, that article seems to be an outlier from what most are saying. PackMecEng (talk) 16:26, 23 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

He also specifies that he was a infantryman here as well.

"I'm a veteran," says Phillips, "a Marine Corps infantryman in the '70s."    

^[2] https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/lifestyle/2000/11/21/a-mourning-wake-up-call/c9fd1ab8-dfdc-42fd-a5b7-c9e8d3b3512e/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.0717977a8f4b

BneiBrakPhone (talk) 16:29, 23 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

January 2019 event labeled as young boys wearing MAGA hats: check your facts which appear to be hastily put on this page. It appears that whoever put this here has an agenda which is not supported by the FACTS. I support Wikipedia but not when it is abused like this. Origionalcowboydave (talk) 17:06, 22 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done - no discernable edit request made. GAB^gab 17:09, 22 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Some sources are reporting 1955 as Nathan Phillips's year of birth:

https://bigleaguepolitics.com/exclusive-here-is-nathan-phillips-record-of-criminal-charges/

https://www.redstate.com/streiff/2019/01/21/nathan-phillips-not-vietnam-war-veteran-richard-blumenthal-problem/

If one was sourced to a government record such as a speeding ticket, it should be considered.Ryoung122 20:05, 22 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

According to public records, Nathan Alan Phillips was born on February 22 1955 Murdery1 (talk) 07:10, 23 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I notice repeat deletions of the entire section on the Indigenous Peoples' March incident. The section is reliably sourced and seems due weight to be included in the article given the widespread coverage of the incident. I think it would help if the editor deleting this entire section could instead be specific about concerns. If you believe there is information in section which is not supported by the references cited, that needs to be discussed and addressed. Per WP:BLP, content about living persons must be reliably sourced. Currently, it appears this information is reliably sourced, unless the references cited are being misrepresented somehow. Instead of just repeated deletions, please discuss and be specific about concerns so they can be addressed. DynaGirl (talk) 22:25, 22 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Not sure how to add the following to the article:

Phillips was overwhelmed by the loss of his family, his troubled upbringing and the lack of ties to his own culture and turned to crime and drinking.  For the next 14 years, he used the skills he learned in the Marines to work as a thug-for-hire.[3]

This would nicely fill out the two-decade-plus gaping hole in between the subject's military service and activist career. It seems Wikipedia does not forbid adding WP:RS info which is less than hagiographic about biographical subjects. If you go to John Hemingway article, for example, it says he "embarked on "alcoholic sprees" (per one source) and if you go to Woody Allen's -who's alive-, it says a child female "had an eight-year affair with Allen that began in 1976 when she was 16 years old and thus underage" (per one source). A don't even go into the Roman Polanski page -he´s also alive-, yet the lead paragraph says in Wikipedia's voice "Polanski was arrested and charged with drugging and raping a 13-year-old girl," before it drolly notes the guy won several Oscars afterwards. How should we add the "thug for hire" info? XavierItzm (talk) 22:45, 22 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Sources

^ https://finance.yahoo.com/news/power-nathan-phillips-apos-song-161810017.html ^ ://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/lifestyle/2000/11/21/a-mourning-wake-up-call/c9fd1ab8-dfdc-42fd-a5b7-c9e8d3b3512e/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.0717977a8f4b ^ Josh Funk (11 January 1999). "A split feather". The Daily Nebraskan. Retrieved 22 January 2019. Phillips was overwhelmed by the loss of his family, his troubled upbringing and the lack of ties to his own culture and turned to crime and drinking.For the next 14 years, he used the skills he learned in the Marines to work as a thug-for-hire.

I'm too new here to create a new article, but I'm hoping someone else will click on the link to create it.

Burtbroil (talk) 01:53, 23 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The "recon ranger" citation is to the wrong Vogue article. It should be https://www.vogue.com/projects/13542941/return-to-standing-rock/. 100.6.49.192 (talk) 03:43, 23 January 2019 (UTC) 100.6.49.192 (talk) 03:43, 23 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The page needs to be edited to reflect his DD-214 and not what’s in the media. IEditThingsForYou (talk) 04:00, 23 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

• https://www.redstate.com/jenvanlaar/2019/01/22/nathan-phillips-dd-214-released-shows-hes-not-quite-claims/WTucker (talk) 14:27, 23 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]