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== Investing in the poor ==

In what sense is this:

: Rubio has called for investments to provide the poor with the skills they need to no longer be dependent on government aid. He has said that while this would not save money in the short run it would pay off in reduced poverty later.

Not an allowed neutral rephrasing of

: [http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/06/magazine/can-the-gop-be-a-party-of-ideas.html "When I spoke with him, Rubio also stood by his own antipoverty proposal, acknowledging it would not save any money but suggesting it might in the long run since it would lift many out of poverty."]

[[User:Hcobb|Hcobb]] ([[User talk:Hcobb|talk]]) 21:06, 18 July 2014 (UTC)

:In every sense? You've made a complete original interpretation of what the article says. "''has called for investments''", where does it say that? "''provide the poor with the skills they need''", where does it say that? "''no longer be dependent on government aid''", where does it say that? "''not save money in the short run''", where does it say "in the short run" or anything similar? If you want to mention this "antipoverty proposal" of Rubio, I suggest you track down an article about it since not much can be extracted from this one. Regards. [[User:Gaba_p|<font color="blue">Gaba</font> ]] ^{<font color="green">[[User talk:Gaba_p|(talk)]]</font>} 02:18, 19 July 2014 (UTC)

* The plan wouldn’t save a dime in the short run — in fact, it would most likely increase costs

* What sets Rubio’s thinking apart is his enthusiasm for a different approach to educating and training the young.

I.e. investments in skills, by spending money in the short run.

* it might in the long run since it would lift many out of poverty

I.e. long term savings. [[User:Hcobb|Hcobb]] ([[User talk:Hcobb|talk]]) 03:18, 19 July 2014 (UTC)

:No. You are fundamentally breaching [[WP:OR]] and [[WP:SYN]] by combining different statements to derive your own interpretation. That is not acceptable. The source does not support the statement you propose. I repeat: if you wish to say something about Rubio's "antipoverty proposal", you need to come up with a better source, preferably one about the issue in particular. Regards. [[User:Gaba_p|<font color="blue">Gaba</font> ]] ^{<font color="green">[[User talk:Gaba_p|(talk)]]</font>} 03:26, 19 July 2014 (UTC)

:: Agree somewhat. You can perfectly add that content, but only if is fully attributed. Just rephrase accordingly, and keep the content. - [[User:Cwobeel|<span style="color:#339966">Cwobeel</span>]] [[User_talk:Cwobeel|<span style="font-size:80%">(talk)</span>]] 04:47, 19 July 2014 (UTC)

::: So what is the alternate phrasing of Rubio's policies that I'm not seeing here? [[User:Hcobb|Hcobb]] ([[User talk:Hcobb|talk]]) 14:25, 19 July 2014 (UTC)

::::As I said, not much can be extracted from that article since it's pretty vague and contains very little information. At the risk of sounding repetitive: if you want to say something about Rubio's "antipoverty proposal", you need to come up with a better source, preferably one about the issue in particular. Regards. [[User:Gaba_p|<font color="blue">Gaba</font> ]] ^{<font color="green">[[User talk:Gaba_p|(talk)]]</font>} 15:55, 19 July 2014 (UTC)

::::: We don't need a better source, this is as good as a source as you need. We just need better copy-editing and full attribution. - [[User:Cwobeel|<span style="color:#339966">Cwobeel</span>]] [[User_talk:Cwobeel|<span style="font-size:80%">(talk)</span>]] 15:11, 20 July 2014 (UTC)

== Tea Party association ==

The article seems a little short on detail about Rubio's association with the Tea Party which was very notable around 2010. Here are some sources that may be useful if anyone is interested in expanding this aspect of the article.

#"Rubio, a dynamic Tea Party candidate..."<ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/05/12/rubio-says-do-about-having-enough-experience-to-become-president-but-still-must/ |title=Rubio says 'I do' on having experience to become president, in NH visit |publisher=Fox News |date=2014-05-12 |accessdate=2014-08-10}}</ref>

#" "He understands the plight of the common man a lot better than most because of his background," said Jason Hoyt, the director of the Central Florida Tea Party Council, who embraced Rubio early. "That really resonates with tea party folks." "<ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/11/03/AR2010110308200.html |title=Marco Rubio, from exile to tea party hero |publisher=Washingtonpost.com |date=2010-11-04 |accessdate=2014-08-10}}</ref>

#"The senator [[Marco Rubio] who was elected as part of the Tea Party wave in the 2010 midterms, said he and his wife train at the shooting range two or three times a year."<ref>{{cite web|last=Miller |first=Emily |url=http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/mar/20/marco-rubio-his-357-gun-concealed-carry-permit-and/?page=all |title=MILLER: Marco Rubio on his .357 gun, concealed carry permit and Obama’s pick for surgeon general |publisher=Washington Times |date=2014-03-20 |accessdate=2014-08-10}}</ref>

#"His political history also explains Rubio's special bond with the GOP's tea party faction."<ref>{{cite web|last=Tumulty |first=Karen |url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/marco-rubio-emerges-as-gops-star-but-is-he-the-answer-for-republicans/2013/02/10/3710c464-7207-11e2-a050-b83a7b35c4b5_story.html |title=Marco Rubio emerges as GOP’s star. But is he the answer for Republicans? |publisher=The Washington Post |date=2013-02-10 |accessdate=2014-08-10}}</ref>

#"Rubio is renewing his outreach to tea party supporters and his advocacy for GOP causes as he struggles to repair his image as a conservative standard-bearer."<ref>{{cite web|url=http://latino.foxnews.com/latino/politics/2013/07/24/marco-rubio-tries-to-win-back-tea-party-after-taking-hits-over-immigration-bill/ |title=Marco Rubio Tries To Win Back Tea Party After Taking Hits Over Immigration Bill &#124; Fox News Latino |publisher=Latino.foxnews.com |date=2013-07-24 |accessdate=2014-08-10}}</ref>

#"Rubio, like some other Latino Republicans who have had high profiles in the last year, is a Tea Party conservative, and that – not his ethnicity – is what shapes Latinos’ view of him, political experts say."<ref>{{cite web|url=http://latino.foxnews.com/latino/politics/2012/11/08/can-marco-rubio-save-gop-no-say-latino-leaders/ |title=Can Marco Rubio Save the GOP? Latino Leaders Doubt It &#124; Fox News Latino |publisher=Latino.foxnews.com |date= |accessdate=2014-08-10}}</ref>

#"For months, Rubio, a Tea Party Republican from Florida, sent several daily press releases and appeared weekly on television news shows pleading the cause of immigration reform."<ref>{{cite web|url=http://latino.foxnews.com/latino/politics/2013/07/18/marco-rubio-disappears-from-immigration-debate-or-has/ |title=Marco Rubio Disappears From Immigration Debate, Or Has He? &#124; Fox News Latino |publisher=Latino.foxnews.com |date=2013-07-18 |accessdate=2014-08-10}}</ref>

#"And one other Tea Party senator, Florida’s Marco Rubio, is being hailed as a “savior” for the GOP as he moves to the center and negotiates an immigration reform deal."<ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2013/02/21/surprise-tea-party-has-new-leader/ |title=Surprise! The Tea Party has a new leader |publisher=Fox News |date=2013-02-21 |accessdate=2014-08-10}}</ref>

#"...Tea Party-backed lawmaker Sen. Marco Rubio..."<ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/11/05/biden-rubio-head-to-virginia-for-governor-race/ |title=Cuccinelli, McAuliffe call on respective party stars ahead of Tuesday's election |publisher=Fox News |date= |accessdate=2014-08-10}}</ref>

#"Rubio was one of the first big wins for the Tea Party..."<ref>{{cite web|url=http://neshobademocrat.com/main.asp?SectionID=7&SubSectionID=302&ArticleID=33224 |title=PERRY/The Neshoba speeches - The Neshoba Democrat - Philadelphia, Mississippi |publisher=The Neshoba Democrat |date=2014-07-30 |accessdate=2014-08-10}}</ref>

#"Then a rising GOP star emerges from the Tea Party ranks and makes his mark in Congress. In his first Sunday show interview, Senator Marco Rubio talks about the debt crisis and his political future." ... "A Tea Party favorite, people are already asking whether he [Marco Rubio] might run for president or vice president next year."<ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.foxnews.com/on-air/fox-news-sunday-chris-wallace/transcript/rep-paul-ryan-previews-gop-budget-sen-marco-rubio-debt-crisis-libya#p//v/927134319001 |title=Rep. Paul Ryan Previews GOP Budget; Sen. Marco Rubio on Debt Crisis, Libya &#124; Interviews &#124; Fox News Sunday with Chris Wallace |publisher=Fox News |date= |accessdate=2014-08-10}}</ref>

#"one-time tea party darling"<ref>{{cite web|last=Caputo |first=Marc |url=http://www.miamiherald.com/2013/09/01/3600665/marc-caputo-how-marco-rubio-lost.html |title=Marc Caputo: How Marco Rubio lost his tea party credibility - Marc Caputo |publisher=MiamiHerald.com |date= |accessdate=2014-08-10}}</ref>

#"One of the top Tea-Party-backed fundraisers, Florida Republican Marco Rubio..."<ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2010/08/13/floridas-marco-rubio-tops-list-of-tea-party-fundraisers |title=Florida's Marco Rubio Tops List of Tea Party Fundraisers |publisher=US News |date=2010-08-13 |accessdate=2014-08-10}}</ref>

#"tea party champion"<ref>{{cite web|last=Bacon |first=Perry |url=http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/elections/tea-party-losses-give-gop-better-shot-win-back-senate-n176176 |title=Tea Party Losses Give GOP a Better Shot to Win Back the Senate |publisher=NBC News |date= |accessdate=2014-08-10}}</ref>

{{Reflist-talk}}

There is also a parallel discussion at [[WP:BLPN#Marco Rubio|BLPN]] about Rubio's Tea Party association.- [[user: MrX|Mr]][[user talk:MrX|X]] 14:53, 10 August 2014 (UTC)

== Climate change skeptic? ==

What's the rationale for including Rubio in the Climate Change Skeptic category. Based on his bio, it doesn't appear that he's contesting climate change. He's contesting the link between climate change and human activity.[[User:CFredkin|CFredkin]] ([[User talk:CFredkin|talk]]) 04:51, 18 September 2014 (UTC)

:I dunno, maybe there should be a CFD renaming discussion, but it seems pretty clear from Google and from the [[climate change#Terminology|climate change]] article that these days the term "climate change" is pretty generally used as shorthand for "anthropogenic climate change", with the obvious corollary extending to skeptics. [[Special:Contributions/2600:1006:B003:176F:B945:D20A:9451:85D|2600:1006:B003:176F:B945:D20A:9451:85D]] ([[User talk:2600:1006:B003:176F:B945:D20A:9451:85D|talk]]) 05:53, 18 September 2014 (UTC)

:: Agreed. He may not be a climate change denier, per say, but he's clearly skeptical of 'climate change' as the term is commonly understood and used. He is defined in the article as having "questioned the scientific understanding of climate change". How is that different from skepticism? Removing the category seemed like it was making the article less clear by focusing on a pedantic and minor phrasing issue. [[User:Grayfell|Grayfell]] ([[User talk:Grayfell|talk]]) 06:20, 18 September 2014 (UTC)

:::Perhaps it would help CFredkin to consult the section of the articled titled "Climate change", where we read: 'Rubio has stated that he does not believe that human activity is causing climate change, and argues that proposals to address climate change will instead "destroy" the economy. The independent fact-checking website PolitiFact found that Rubio had consistently questioned the scientific understanding of climate change: "Rubio consistently either avoids the link between human activity and climate change, or outright denies it."' This is of course exactly what the "climate change skeptic" category is about. [[User:Nomoskedasticity|Nomoskedasticity]] ([[User talk:Nomoskedasticity|talk]]) 08:25, 18 September 2014 (UTC)

::::Then the category should be called "Anthropogenic Climate Change Skeptic" (or something like that). It's mis-leading to apply the label "Climate Change Skeptic" when the article does not say that he is skeptical of climate change per se, but that he skeptical of the link between climate change and human activity. It's not reasonable to assume that the average reader will know that "Climate Change Skeptic" is shorthand for "Anthropogenic Climate Change Skeptic".[[User:CFredkin|CFredkin]] ([[User talk:CFredkin|talk]]) 15:57, 18 September 2014 (UTC)

:::::Considering that there has been no statistically significant change in temperatures for the past 16 years or so despite a 10% increase in CO2, it may be time to create a Climate Change Realist category for people like Rubio. [[User:Arzel|Arzel]] ([[User talk:Arzel|talk]]) 17:45, 18 September 2014 (UTC)