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Article milestones Date Process Result October 19, 2005 Featured article candidate Not promoted February 2, 2006 Good article nominee Listed December 2, 2008 Good article reassessment Delisted April 28, 2009 Peer review Reviewed August 11, 2009 Good article nominee Listed Current status: Good article

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There's been an edit war going on the last few days over this, starting with an IP's POV/biased edits here: diff. This was reverted, then unreverted. I then trimmed most of the bias and unsourced parts out, leaving a core sourced sentence here: diff. This was reverted and edit warred over for a bit more and was ultimately removed. After a day or so (Enough time to try to dodge 3RR....), it was added back in what I view as an even more biased/POV edit than before, here: diff.

This new edit has some hefty NPOV issues. I do believe it's worthwhile to get something into the article about sexism in the MTG community, but we need quality sources and neutral text. The latest version is heavily leaning on low quality sources, has some prose/grammar issues, and a bit of OR in the last sentence, so I reverted it for now. Let's see some discussion and a consensus on what to add to the article. -- ferret (talk) 19:41, 15 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Pinging involved editors: @CombatWombat42 and Leitmotiv -- ferret (talk) 19:52, 15 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

FYI CW42 was blocked by Sergecross73 for 3 days for edit warring on this article. --Izno (talk) 20:00, 15 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Noted. No rush, this talk page will be here in 3 days. :) -- ferret (talk) 20:11, 15 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for at least starting up a discussion, something both of the main editors involved have still failed to do. I've fully protected the page for a week, so this doesn't continue again once a block ends. I can extend it if it starts up again, or remove it altogether if a consensus arises prior to a week happening. Just leave me a note on my talk page if you'd like any action on me regarding it. Thanks. Sergecross73 msg me 20:32, 15 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Well not exactly @Sergecross73:, I did try to start a conversation on Combat's talk page, but it was called out as harassment. Since all those spurious charges were trumpeted against me, I've lost a little bit of interest during that time. But, I'm still willing to work things out.

As I stated in my edit notations before Combat disputed them, I reviewed the article and their usage of the term "misogyny" and it seems to be at odds with what they're describing, which is the over-sexualization of women on the cards - for those who don't know, misogyny means the "hatred of women." One case describes misogynistic playmats, but it's really hard to know what they're talking about without an example given, and it could easily be a misuse of the word again. That and the article refers to a lot of third party products (still unsure if they really mean mysogyny or something else altogether) but the wikistatement that was cited by this article specifically mentions the "cards." That's a world of difference, all things considered. I see that allegedly some cards were "altered" to depict rape, but that would also fall under a third party product since it was not originally authorized by the Wizards of the Coast. I suppose there is room for a mention somewhere about this, but it wouldn't be under Reception. It would fall under something probably new, like "Player Community" or something. But having that as the only item under Player Community would give undue weight to one point of view. Leitmotiv (talk) 21:11, 15 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

You can probably ignore this misogyny crusade; it is an unsourced effort on the part of feminists to get their hooks into hobbies as consultants or commentators, similar to what Anita Sarkeesian did for video games. Her Kickstarter to produce videos under the name "Feminist Frequency" has underperformed and, although she collected $150,000, has announced she has quit after producing only six short videos on the issue. 66.241.130.86 (talk) 21:15, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

In an unrelated topic, this paragraph: "For the first few years of its production, Magic: The Gathering featured a small number of cards with names or artwork with demonic or occultist themes, in 1995 the company elected to remove such references from the game. In 2002, believing that the depiction of demons was becoming less controversial and that the game had established itself sufficiently, Wizards of the Coast reversed this policy and resumed printing cards with "demon" in their names," should be moved to Reception. It fits the needs of that section and is less relevant to the section it is in now. Leitmotiv (talk) 21:18, 15 February 2016 (UTC) Leitmotiv (talk) 20:49, 15 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Interesting, I think that it is fine in the Marketing section, the way it reads right now it was a marketing decision, not one made because of (pre-existing) public reception... Although I think it should probably move up to paragraph two to make things a bit more chronological. Crazynas ^t 04:03, 17 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah it can work in Marketing, but since Reception exists, I think that is a better fit. Leitmotiv (talk) 16:51, 17 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I think it could be moved to Reception as well. Apriestofgix (talk) 23:46, 1 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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Would it be worth having a section on references to MTG in popular culture? For example, the TV situation comedy THE BIG BANG THEORY has a spoof of MTG where the characters play Mystic Warlords of Ka'a and throw down cards with crazy names, as a spoof of collector-card play. They refer to which card beats which, and say, "EVERYTHING beats Enchanted Bunny!" The game was started up for real as a free online game for a time. 66.241.130.86 (talk) 21:18, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Unless a source directly calls it a spoof of MTG (versus hundreds of other CCGs), it shouldn't be included here. -- ferret (talk) 21:42, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Many other pages have such references, but is that actually recommended? Seems very much like trivia to me in most cases. I mean sure, if the next James Bond is named Magic: The Gathering Royal, but otherwise?

Is it really appropriate to start the Reception section with 'some consider the game very addictive ... cardboardcrack ...'? People have said that, but the people are not even named, and it sounds tabloid style. Also for the very addictive part the cited article is called 'Confessions of an MTGO addict'. MTGO is Magic Online so the article doesn't even apply a 100% to MTG as a whole.

The SCG article is from a guy who writes a few paragraphs about his addiction. Turns out many things are addictive if you like them. Most articles about potentially addictive things (coffee, chocolate, ...) don't have an addiction section, though. I would have no qualms having a section about addiction if there was scientific research on this topic, but this way it is just 'one man said...'.

Finally the USA Today article is from 2004. That is a 12 year old reference for a 22 year old game. I don't think it is justified to make the statement that Magic is called cardboard crack based on a reference that old, one that is mostly vague and all over the place in its description of the game.

I removed the first line of the section on these grounds. I do understand that Magic has been criticized and that there are certainly legitimate reasons to criticize Magic, but these criticism should be based on quality refences. OdinFK (talk) 07:56, 12 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@OdinFK: WP:WTW and WP:RS. The USA Today link should probably be re-added (even though it is old--we do a bad-enough job ensuring we've got a solid reception for continuing games), but the others don't look like they should be retained. --Izno (talk) 11:40, 12 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I agree, and I actually re-edited it in, but I did a bad job of annotating my edits, sorry. The next paragraph elaborated on the positive takeaways from the USA Today article. So I added a sentence about addiction to that, and re-instated the ref. Should be fine now. OdinFK (talk) 20:30, 12 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Multiverse (Magic: The Gathering) is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

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