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== None of the colors is better than the rest ==
== Semi-protected edit request on 2 May 2018 ==


Hi everyone. I suggest to add the information to the article that none of the colours in the game is better than the rest, that all of them have their own advantages and disadvantages. Could someone please do this? Thanks! <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/181.1.220.13|181.1.220.13]] ([[User talk:181.1.220.13#top|talk]]) 14:04, 14 October 2021 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
{{edit semi-protected|Magic: The Gathering|answered=yes}}
:This is unsourced and unsubstantiated. -- [[User:Ferret|ferret]] ([[User_talk:Ferret|talk]]) 14:30, 14 October 2021 (UTC)
Link references to the Commander format to the Wikipedia article at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic:_The_Gathering_Commander [[User:Cheshyrp|Cheshyrp]] ([[User talk:Cheshyrp|talk]]) 18:49, 2 May 2018 (UTC)
::Although it is arguably corect and uncontroversial. But The anon didn't specify where to add it, and why should we bother at all. <sub style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;">[[User:Piotrus|Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus]]&#124;[[User talk:Piotrus|<span style="color:#7CFC00;background:#006400;"> reply here</span>]]</sub> 07:35, 16 October 2021 (UTC)
:[[File:Yes check.svg|20px|link=|alt=]] '''Done'''<!-- Template:ESp --> [[User:NiciVampireHeart|<font color="black">'''Nici'''</font>]][[User_talk:NiciVampireHeart|<font color="purple">'''Vampire'''</font>]][[Special:Contributions/NiciVampireHeart|<font color="black">'''Heart'''</font>]] 19:38, 2 May 2018 (UTC)
:::I think this paragraph actually mostly comes down to the anon's intent:
:::"The Research and Development (R&D) team at Wizards of the Coast aimed to balance power and abilities among the five colors by using the Color Pie to differentiate the strengths and weaknesses of each. This guideline lays out the capabilities, themes, and mechanics of each color and allows for every color to have its own distinct attributes and gameplay. The Color Pie is used to ensure new cards are thematically in the correct color and do not infringe on the territory of other colors."
:::As a matter of fact "none of the colours in the game is better than the rest" is also not literally true anyway. It is certainly what Wizards strives for and maybe even achieves to a laudable degree, but then Blue is considered the most colorful in old formats by almost everybody. Also there have been standard formats where colors stood head and shoulders above the rest or a single color was barely playable. So to sum it up, I think the article is pretty much fine where it is right now in this regard. [[User:OdinFK|OdinFK]] ([[User talk:OdinFK|talk]]) 09:26, 16 October 2021 (UTC)
:Blue ;D [[User:Atomic putty? Rien!|Atomic putty? Rien! (talk) ]] ([[User talk:Atomic putty? Rien!|talk]]) 14:00, 23 June 2022 (UTC)
::Hello again. I come to revive this topic. In a certain degree, it's practically true the statement: "None of the colors is better than the rest" because if you check clearly, everyone thinks that maybe Red and Green are the best in terms of strength and direct damage. But even Blue and White aren't less just because they are defense and healing counterparts. Blue and White also have their own way of attacking which is different from Red and Green (which is direct damage at the opponent's creatures and the opponent himself) that are also useful, such as the venom cards and emptying the deck to your opponent. I believe that this statement: "None of the colors is better than the rest" should be somewhere explained thoroughly in the article because it's important. What do you guys think? Please reply! Thanks! [[Special:Contributions/190.231.171.103|190.231.171.103]] ([[User talk:190.231.171.103|talk]]) 15:11, 10 September 2023 (UTC)
:::Still waiting for a reply... [[Special:Contributions/181.110.70.239|181.110.70.239]] ([[User talk:181.110.70.239|talk]]) 08:37, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
::::Well, if you think about it "none of the colours are better than the rest" is a statement, that cannot be proven in this matter-of-fact way. Magic is too big, dynamic and diverse for such a statement to mean a whole lot. You might find statements such as "In Legacy and Vintage blue is generally considered to be the most powerful colour". This is about perception, not facts and this might be added somewhere, but it is probably outside the scope of this article here.
::::The most meaningful thing going this direction, that I can think of to put in this article, is something like "Magic designers strive to balance the power level of the colours. Due the inherent difficulty of this task perfect balance is rarely achieved, but which colour ends up being strongest shifts over time." You can probably find some remark of Mark Rosewater to that end. If you want it in the article you got to dig for yourself, though. [[User:OdinFK|OdinFK]] ([[User talk:OdinFK|talk]]) 13:32, 16 October 2023 (UTC)


== Rarity Section. ==
== Typo in article -- Kaldesh vs. Kaladesh. ==


Hi, i recently made an image that describes the amount of common, uncommon, rare and mythic rare cards contained in Magic expansions. The italian section of Wikipedia has s rarity section that talks about these different rarities and the foil cards.
I found this in the Product and Marketing section. I do not yet have enough authority on wikipedia to fix it, however, so if someone sees this, please fix it.


I'll leave the image here in case it can be useful to someone that wants to add that section here too.


[[File:Magic_Rarities_across_Expansions.svg|Magic Rarities across Expansions]] [[User:Icovsworld|Icovsworld]] ([[User talk:Icovsworld|talk]]) 21:52, 1 October 2023 (UTC)


:{{Ping|Icovsworld}} It seems the data are incorrect. For instance since ''Shards of Alara'' set there are no rare cards, but you can see in [[List of Magic: The Gathering sets|this article]] that this is not the case; there are other major errors in the image though. --[[User:Phyrexian|Phyrexian]] [[User talk:Phyrexian|ɸ]] 05:45, 2 October 2023 (UTC)
Each set since ''Kaldesh'' (Kaladesh) features two Planeswalker decks. They contain a 60-card pre-constructed deck with an exclusive Planeswalker, as well as several exclusive cards, two booster packs from the set they accompany, as well as a rule guide and a card board box with an image of the included Planeswalker.
::It was probably due some incorrect filtering i've done on the dataset, i didn't know about this other article with all the correct data, i'll use it and redo all the numbers correctly, thanks! [[User:Icovsworld|Icovsworld]] ([[User talk:Icovsworld|talk]]) 09:56, 2 October 2023 (UTC)
::it should be fine now! [[Special:Contributions/93.41.120.168|93.41.120.168]] ([[User talk:93.41.120.168|talk]]) 13:08, 5 October 2023 (UTC)
:Without information on how this chart is being constructed and what the data sources is, it fails [[WP:V]] and [[WP:RS]] for use on Enwiki. -- [[User:Ferret|ferret]] ([[User_talk:Ferret|talk]]) 13:59, 5 October 2023 (UTC)


== Categories ==
[[User:Dactorwatson|Dactorwatson]] ([[User talk:Dactorwatson|talk]]) 23:56, 13 May 2018 (UTC)
:[[File:Yes check.svg|18px|link=|alt=]]&nbsp;'''Done'''<!--template:done-->. [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Magic%3A_The_Gathering&type=revision&diff=841106142&oldid=839336423] Thank you for spotting that typo :) <span style="color: purple">♠</span>[[User:TomasBat|<span style="font-family: Old English Text MT; color: green">TomasBat</span>]] 03:28, 14 May 2018 (UTC)


For those familiar with the game, collecting and playing or both, the game contains cards of vampires and angels. I’d like to see this game added to Category:Vampires in games and Category:Angels in popular culture [[User:Twillisjr|Twillisjr]] ([[User talk:Twillisjr|talk]]) 17:01, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
== Storyline section ==


:Categories should be defining, per [[WP:CATDEF]]: {{tq|A defining characteristic is one that reliable sources commonly and consistently refer to in describing the topic}}. Can you demonstrate that sources regularly refer to the fact that M:TG contains vampires and angels? M:TG contains nearly every fantasy (and many scifi) tropes that exist. We could put a million categories for dragons, vampires, elves, dwarves, orcs, angels, gods, demons, goblins, on and on. They are not defining. -- [[User:Ferret|ferret]] ([[User_talk:Ferret|talk]]) 17:04, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
The storyline section seems way too specific after the first 2-3 paragraphs. I don't think it is of much use to the casual reader to list all the individual storylines. After the first two paragraphs the main periods of note in Magic's storyline development seem to be the long storyline arc of the Weatherlight, the Mending-realted change in scope of the Planeswalkers (down from basically godhood), and finally the Gatewatch. Maybe the change from books and comics to developing the story in story articles on Wizards' own site should be mentioned, too. Does this make sense or am I wrong here? [[User:OdinFK|OdinFK]] ([[User talk:OdinFK|talk]]) 12:48, 20 July 2018 (UTC)


== Trading Card Games ==
== Life-total, or life total? ==


In the article, both versions are used. We should standardize, and use just one version. I had never seen "life total" spelled with a hyphen before reading this article, so my initial impulse would be to use the version without the hyphen. Thoughts? [[User:Wafflewombat|Wafflewombat]] ([[User talk:Wafflewombat|talk]]) 01:13, 9 March 2024 (UTC)
''Magic was the first trading card game created''


'''Update:''' I went ahead and standardized to "life total." Feel free to revert if there's a problem with this. [[User:Wafflewombat|Wafflewombat]] ([[User talk:Wafflewombat|talk]]) 00:41, 10 March 2024 (UTC)
Someone's got a conveniently short memory. Never heard of something called [[Top Trumps]]?

[[User:Nuttyskin|Nuttyskin]] ([[User talk:Nuttyskin|talk]]) 10:27, 31 August 2018 (UTC)

:The term TCG refers to a specific type of game. Magic: The Gathering was the first game of that type. Top Trumps might be a game and in some cases even be collectible/tradable, but it is not a TCG by the customary defintion of the term. [[User:OdinFK|OdinFK]] ([[User talk:OdinFK|talk]]) 14:27, 31 August 2018 (UTC)

::Doesn't really matter. Though the claim is made in the lede (now weaselled to ''the first trading card game to gain widespread acceptance''), the immediate problem is that this is not explicitly stated anywhere further down the article, AND therefore cannot offer ANY source (much less a credible one) to support the claim. As it's been so hotly defended (above), clearly this claim can be quickly substantiated, before it gets removed as hyperbolic [[fanboy]] editorializing.

::Speaking of that: the sentence continues on with '''''and it continues to thrive''''', which needs rewording. The word "thrive" never reappears in the article, and I therefore suspect such ready use of [[superlative]] opinion indicates a page shot through with fanboyism. At very least, the claim is weak and getting weaker by the minute, being supported only by three aging articles (1998, 2008, 2015), the last from ''[[The Guardian]]'' (rather than, say, a toy-industry journal) and entirely unsubstantiated in that article — which quotes a developer and two hardcore players and otherwise resembles an op/ed or a class paper or personal blog rather than an article of any depth. For the moment, I've flagged this as needing a better source, but the claim REALLY needs to be updated a few years.<br>[[User:Weeb Dingle|Weeb Dingle]] ([[User talk:Weeb Dingle|talk]]) 17:05, 9 March 2019 (UTC)
::::I would recommend you visit [[collectible card game]] for an in depth review on the history of CCGs. It has been discussed at length. Your argument that the sources are old, is entirely invalid. Old sources doesn't make them wrong. Any new source still has to adhere to the old information that was established long ago, or else it can be seen as revisionist. As for Top Trumps, it too has been discussed at the CCG article. I would take a long hard look at the definition of CCG. Top Trumps does not fit the criteria. All sources worth their salt have Magic as the first and it's not fanboy editing. If you have a new source that claims otherwise, then we can review it, but until then there is no debate.
::::Additionally, the claim that Magic was the first is directly supported by a peer-reviewed paper from the University of Washington cited in the lede. It is no longer required to be cited later in the article at that point, unless you want to be redundant. The fact is many, many sources have Magic as the first, and we could stack them up to no end and accomplish very little. All we need is 1. We currently have 3. No more are required. If you are looking to continue the debate about which is first, I would take the conversation to the main [[collectible card game]] article first. [[User:Leitmotiv|Leitmotiv]] ([[User talk:Leitmotiv|talk]]) 21:25, 10 March 2019 (UTC)

== Define Eternal format in the body ==

{{ping|Apriestofgix}} thanks for your recent addition. Could you help us by defining (and sourcing) the keyword "Eternal" in the Formats section? Otherwise it should be removed, per MoS. [[User:Elfabet|Elfabet]] ([[User talk:Elfabet|talk]]) 13:14, 19 March 2019 (UTC)
:I'm not great at adding citations, but this article mentions the only two formats Wizards considers Eternal are Legacy and Vintage. <ref>https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/latest-developments/developing-eternal-formats-2013-10-18</ref> [[User:Apriestofgix|Apriestofgix]] ([[User talk:Apriestofgix|talk]]) 15:54, 20 March 2019 (UTC)
::I'm kind of tempted to leave it out in that case, since it feels like an unnecessary classificiation and kind of falls under WP:JARGON. [[User:Elfabet|Elfabet]] ([[User talk:Elfabet|talk]]) 20:31, 20 March 2019 (UTC)
:::It is used to define the difference between "Eternal" and "None-rotating" which affects the legality of different sets, so it is defining to the format definition. I'll take a stab at flushing out what Eternal means so it's not just jargon. [[User:Apriestofgix|Apriestofgix]] ([[User talk:Apriestofgix|talk]]) 18:30, 21 March 2019 (UTC)
::::You need a source that explicitly defines "eternal". It doesn't have to be from WotC. [[User:Leitmotiv|Leitmotiv]] ([[User talk:Leitmotiv|talk]]) 18:37, 21 March 2019 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 13:08, 12 April 2024

Good articleMagic: The Gathering has been listed as one of the Sports and recreation good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
On this day... Article milestones
DateProcessResult
October 19, 2005Featured article candidateNot promoted
February 2, 2006Good article nomineeListed
December 2, 2008Good article reassessmentDelisted
April 28, 2009Peer reviewReviewed
August 11, 2009Good article nomineeListed
On this day... A fact from this article was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the "On this day..." column on August 5, 2023.
Current status: Good article

None of the colors is better than the rest[edit]

Hi everyone. I suggest to add the information to the article that none of the colours in the game is better than the rest, that all of them have their own advantages and disadvantages. Could someone please do this? Thanks! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 181.1.220.13 (talk) 14:04, 14 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

This is unsourced and unsubstantiated. -- ferret (talk) 14:30, 14 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Although it is arguably corect and uncontroversial. But The anon didn't specify where to add it, and why should we bother at all. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 07:35, 16 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I think this paragraph actually mostly comes down to the anon's intent:
"The Research and Development (R&D) team at Wizards of the Coast aimed to balance power and abilities among the five colors by using the Color Pie to differentiate the strengths and weaknesses of each. This guideline lays out the capabilities, themes, and mechanics of each color and allows for every color to have its own distinct attributes and gameplay. The Color Pie is used to ensure new cards are thematically in the correct color and do not infringe on the territory of other colors."
As a matter of fact "none of the colours in the game is better than the rest" is also not literally true anyway. It is certainly what Wizards strives for and maybe even achieves to a laudable degree, but then Blue is considered the most colorful in old formats by almost everybody. Also there have been standard formats where colors stood head and shoulders above the rest or a single color was barely playable. So to sum it up, I think the article is pretty much fine where it is right now in this regard. OdinFK (talk) 09:26, 16 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Blue ;D Atomic putty? Rien! (talk) (talk) 14:00, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Hello again. I come to revive this topic. In a certain degree, it's practically true the statement: "None of the colors is better than the rest" because if you check clearly, everyone thinks that maybe Red and Green are the best in terms of strength and direct damage. But even Blue and White aren't less just because they are defense and healing counterparts. Blue and White also have their own way of attacking which is different from Red and Green (which is direct damage at the opponent's creatures and the opponent himself) that are also useful, such as the venom cards and emptying the deck to your opponent. I believe that this statement: "None of the colors is better than the rest" should be somewhere explained thoroughly in the article because it's important. What do you guys think? Please reply! Thanks! 190.231.171.103 (talk) 15:11, 10 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Still waiting for a reply... 181.110.70.239 (talk) 08:37, 16 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Well, if you think about it "none of the colours are better than the rest" is a statement, that cannot be proven in this matter-of-fact way. Magic is too big, dynamic and diverse for such a statement to mean a whole lot. You might find statements such as "In Legacy and Vintage blue is generally considered to be the most powerful colour". This is about perception, not facts and this might be added somewhere, but it is probably outside the scope of this article here.
The most meaningful thing going this direction, that I can think of to put in this article, is something like "Magic designers strive to balance the power level of the colours. Due the inherent difficulty of this task perfect balance is rarely achieved, but which colour ends up being strongest shifts over time." You can probably find some remark of Mark Rosewater to that end. If you want it in the article you got to dig for yourself, though. OdinFK (talk) 13:32, 16 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Rarity Section.[edit]

Hi, i recently made an image that describes the amount of common, uncommon, rare and mythic rare cards contained in Magic expansions. The italian section of Wikipedia has s rarity section that talks about these different rarities and the foil cards.

I'll leave the image here in case it can be useful to someone that wants to add that section here too.

Magic Rarities across Expansions Icovsworld (talk) 21:52, 1 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Icovsworld: It seems the data are incorrect. For instance since Shards of Alara set there are no rare cards, but you can see in this article that this is not the case; there are other major errors in the image though. --Phyrexian ɸ 05:45, 2 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
It was probably due some incorrect filtering i've done on the dataset, i didn't know about this other article with all the correct data, i'll use it and redo all the numbers correctly, thanks! Icovsworld (talk) 09:56, 2 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
it should be fine now! 93.41.120.168 (talk) 13:08, 5 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Without information on how this chart is being constructed and what the data sources is, it fails WP:V and WP:RS for use on Enwiki. -- ferret (talk) 13:59, 5 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Categories[edit]

For those familiar with the game, collecting and playing or both, the game contains cards of vampires and angels. I’d like to see this game added to Category:Vampires in games and Category:Angels in popular culture Twillisjr (talk) 17:01, 11 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Categories should be defining, per WP:CATDEF: A defining characteristic is one that reliable sources commonly and consistently refer to in describing the topic. Can you demonstrate that sources regularly refer to the fact that M:TG contains vampires and angels? M:TG contains nearly every fantasy (and many scifi) tropes that exist. We could put a million categories for dragons, vampires, elves, dwarves, orcs, angels, gods, demons, goblins, on and on. They are not defining. -- ferret (talk) 17:04, 11 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Life-total, or life total?[edit]

In the article, both versions are used. We should standardize, and use just one version. I had never seen "life total" spelled with a hyphen before reading this article, so my initial impulse would be to use the version without the hyphen. Thoughts? Wafflewombat (talk) 01:13, 9 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Update: I went ahead and standardized to "life total." Feel free to revert if there's a problem with this. Wafflewombat (talk) 00:41, 10 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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