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→‎Gameplay summary unclear: worked on making some of this clearer, point out that some is already covered, and not sure if it's necessary to state a negative
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== None of the colors is better than the rest ==
== DECKMASTER ==
It says nowhere in the article what "DECKMASTER" on the back of the card means, or where it came from. That info would be appreciated. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/96.24.110.17|96.24.110.17]] ([[User talk:96.24.110.17|talk]]) 04:29, 9 December 2008 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->


Hi everyone. I suggest to add the information to the article that none of the colours in the game is better than the rest, that all of them have their own advantages and disadvantages. Could someone please do this? Thanks! <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/181.1.220.13|181.1.220.13]] ([[User talk:181.1.220.13#top|talk]]) 14:04, 14 October 2021 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
:It's actually pretty inconsequential: Magic was grouped together with a few other trading card games early in its history, when TCGs were new, and each of these were labelled "Deckmaster". Eventually, as the genre grew, they abandoned the label (too many brands in one place), but they had to keep it on the back of the card to keep all cards compatible (their card backs must be indistinguishable to keep game play intact). There's more information here: [http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtgcom/askwizards/0702] It's really just not interesting enough to warrant space on the page, IMO, given everything the article has to cover. [[Special:Contributions/128.12.51.89|128.12.51.89]] ([[User talk:128.12.51.89|talk]]) 08:39, 12 February 2009 (UTC)
:This is unsourced and unsubstantiated. -- [[User:Ferret|ferret]] ([[User_talk:Ferret|talk]]) 14:30, 14 October 2021 (UTC)
::Although it is arguably corect and uncontroversial. But The anon didn't specify where to add it, and why should we bother at all. <sub style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;">[[User:Piotrus|Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus]]&#124;[[User talk:Piotrus|<span style="color:#7CFC00;background:#006400;"> reply here</span>]]</sub> 07:35, 16 October 2021 (UTC)
:::I think this paragraph actually mostly comes down to the anon's intent:
:::"The Research and Development (R&D) team at Wizards of the Coast aimed to balance power and abilities among the five colors by using the Color Pie to differentiate the strengths and weaknesses of each. This guideline lays out the capabilities, themes, and mechanics of each color and allows for every color to have its own distinct attributes and gameplay. The Color Pie is used to ensure new cards are thematically in the correct color and do not infringe on the territory of other colors."
:::As a matter of fact "none of the colours in the game is better than the rest" is also not literally true anyway. It is certainly what Wizards strives for and maybe even achieves to a laudable degree, but then Blue is considered the most colorful in old formats by almost everybody. Also there have been standard formats where colors stood head and shoulders above the rest or a single color was barely playable. So to sum it up, I think the article is pretty much fine where it is right now in this regard. [[User:OdinFK|OdinFK]] ([[User talk:OdinFK|talk]]) 09:26, 16 October 2021 (UTC)
:Blue ;D [[User:Atomic putty? Rien!|Atomic putty? Rien! (talk) ]] ([[User talk:Atomic putty? Rien!|talk]]) 14:00, 23 June 2022 (UTC)
::Hello again. I come to revive this topic. In a certain degree, it's practically true the statement: "None of the colors is better than the rest" because if you check clearly, everyone thinks that maybe Red and Green are the best in terms of strength and direct damage. But even Blue and White aren't less just because they are defense and healing counterparts. Blue and White also have their own way of attacking which is different from Red and Green (which is direct damage at the opponent's creatures and the opponent himself) that are also useful, such as the venom cards and emptying the deck to your opponent. I believe that this statement: "None of the colors is better than the rest" should be somewhere explained thoroughly in the article because it's important. What do you guys think? Please reply! Thanks! [[Special:Contributions/190.231.171.103|190.231.171.103]] ([[User talk:190.231.171.103|talk]]) 15:11, 10 September 2023 (UTC)
:::Still waiting for a reply... [[Special:Contributions/181.110.70.239|181.110.70.239]] ([[User talk:181.110.70.239|talk]]) 08:37, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
::::Well, if you think about it "none of the colours are better than the rest" is a statement, that cannot be proven in this matter-of-fact way. Magic is too big, dynamic and diverse for such a statement to mean a whole lot. You might find statements such as "In Legacy and Vintage blue is generally considered to be the most powerful colour". This is about perception, not facts and this might be added somewhere, but it is probably outside the scope of this article here.
::::The most meaningful thing going this direction, that I can think of to put in this article, is something like "Magic designers strive to balance the power level of the colours. Due the inherent difficulty of this task perfect balance is rarely achieved, but which colour ends up being strongest shifts over time." You can probably find some remark of Mark Rosewater to that end. If you want it in the article you got to dig for yourself, though. [[User:OdinFK|OdinFK]] ([[User talk:OdinFK|talk]]) 13:32, 16 October 2023 (UTC)


== Card Size ==
== Rarity Section. ==
The actual size of a Magic card in customary units is (2{{Fraction|15|32}} by 3{{Fraction|15|16}}&nbsp;[[inches]]), not 2.5 by 3.5 inches.


Hi, i recently made an image that describes the amount of common, uncommon, rare and mythic rare cards contained in Magic expansions. The italian section of Wikipedia has s rarity section that talks about these different rarities and the foil cards.
== Patent information ==
Can someone provide a patent number and some more details about the terms of the patents? For example, licensing, etc? &mdash;''[[User:Memotype|Memotype]]''::<small>'''[[User talk:Memotype|T]]'''</small> 04:11, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
:[http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?patentnumber=5,662,332 U.S. Patent 5,662,332]. It's listed on [[Collectible card game#Patent]], to which the "Patent" section includes a link. Hope that helps. Cheers. --<font color="green">[[User:Lifebaka|''lifebaka'']]</font> <small>([[User talk:Lifebaka|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Lifebaka|Contribs]])</small> 14:02, 9 June 2008 (UTC)


I'll leave the image here in case it can be useful to someone that wants to add that section here too.
==Artists==
Please don't add artists to this section unless they have an existing article on Wikipedia. Also, this discussion needs to be archived. [[User:Onsetofyour|Onsetofyour]] ([[User talk:Onsetofyour|talk]]) 06:06, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
:{{done}} on the archiving. Cheers. <font color="green">[[User:Lifebaka|''lifebaka'']]</font>[[User talk:Lifebaka|'''++''']] 13:29, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
::Why shouldn't artists be listed? If they don't have an article on Wikipedia, don't link them. -- [[User:Jelly Soup|Jelly Soup]] ([[User talk:Jelly Soup|talk]]) 22:00, 24 August 2008 (UTC)
:::There are too many artists to list comprehensively (at least in this article), and we need ''some'' sort of acid test to determine whose name makes the cut. This is a reasonably transparent system, and it bypasses unproductive debates about artist importance, which is largely subjective. As a bonus, it could lead to the creation of new (and fabulous) articles about MTG artists! [[User:JamesLucas|JamesLucas]] <small>([[User talk:JamesLucas|" "]] / [[Special:Contributions/JamesLucas|+]])</small> 21:31, 31 August 2008 (UTC)
::::Created an article [[List of Magic: The Gathering Artists]] and removed the individual artists from the main article. Also whether they have an article doesn't say that much about their notability. [[User:OdinFK|OdinFK]] ([[User talk:OdinFK|talk]]) 19:27, 4 September 2008 (UTC)


[[File:Magic_Rarities_across_Expansions.svg|Magic Rarities across Expansions]] [[User:Icovsworld|Icovsworld]] ([[User talk:Icovsworld|talk]]) 21:52, 1 October 2023 (UTC)
==Languages==
How many languages are the cards translated in? The page mentions only Italian, French, Spanish, Portuguese, German, some asian languages and, of course, English. --[[Special:Contributions/151.51.52.142|151.51.52.142]] ([[User talk:151.51.52.142|talk]]) 12:22, 16 September 2008 (UTC)


:{{Ping|Icovsworld}} It seems the data are incorrect. For instance since ''Shards of Alara'' set there are no rare cards, but you can see in [[List of Magic: The Gathering sets|this article]] that this is not the case; there are other major errors in the image though. --[[User:Phyrexian|Phyrexian]] [[User talk:Phyrexian|ɸ]] 05:45, 2 October 2023 (UTC)
:There is also Russian, Japanese, Chinese (simplified), and Korean (discontinued). [[User:OdinFK|OdinFK]] ([[User talk:OdinFK|talk]]) 12:33, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
::It was probably due some incorrect filtering i've done on the dataset, i didn't know about this other article with all the correct data, i'll use it and redo all the numbers correctly, thanks! [[User:Icovsworld|Icovsworld]] ([[User talk:Icovsworld|talk]]) 09:56, 2 October 2023 (UTC)
::it should be fine now! [[Special:Contributions/93.41.120.168|93.41.120.168]] ([[User talk:93.41.120.168|talk]]) 13:08, 5 October 2023 (UTC)
:Without information on how this chart is being constructed and what the data sources is, it fails [[WP:V]] and [[WP:RS]] for use on Enwiki. -- [[User:Ferret|ferret]] ([[User_talk:Ferret|talk]]) 13:59, 5 October 2023 (UTC)


== Categories ==


For those familiar with the game, collecting and playing or both, the game contains cards of vampires and angels. I’d like to see this game added to Category:Vampires in games and Category:Angels in popular culture [[User:Twillisjr|Twillisjr]] ([[User talk:Twillisjr|talk]]) 17:01, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
==Artifacts and Colorless==
While I understand that most artifacts have been colorless throughout history, every one of the 4 most recent blocks (including the new one coming out in 10 days) have artifacts that are not colorless, and require colored mana to cast, just like other creatures, enchantments, etc.


:Categories should be defining, per [[WP:CATDEF]]: {{tq|A defining characteristic is one that reliable sources commonly and consistently refer to in describing the topic}}. Can you demonstrate that sources regularly refer to the fact that M:TG contains vampires and angels? M:TG contains nearly every fantasy (and many scifi) tropes that exist. We could put a million categories for dragons, vampires, elves, dwarves, orcs, angels, gods, demons, goblins, on and on. They are not defining. -- [[User:Ferret|ferret]] ([[User_talk:Ferret|talk]]) 17:04, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
Being an artifact does not denote colorlessness, just like being a land does not. It's the casting cost (and any rules text) that determine the color. With so many colored artifacts coming out this year and next, as well as them being represented for the past 3 years (although, admittedly, in very small numbers), I don't think we can say that artifact=colorless.


== Life-total, or life total? ==
In the new Rise of the Eldrzi set from the Zendikar Block we see a lot of non artifact, yet colorless Eldrazi creatures and spells, like Kozilek, Butcher of Truth


In the article, both versions are used. We should standardize, and use just one version. I had never seen "life total" spelled with a hyphen before reading this article, so my initial impulse would be to use the version without the hyphen. Thoughts? [[User:Wafflewombat|Wafflewombat]] ([[User talk:Wafflewombat|talk]]) 01:13, 9 March 2024 (UTC)
What do you all think? - [[User:IanCheesman|IanCheesman]] ([[User talk:IanCheesman|talk]]) 16:24, 24 September 2008 (UTC)


'''Update:''' I went ahead and standardized to "life total." Feel free to revert if there's a problem with this. [[User:Wafflewombat|Wafflewombat]] ([[User talk:Wafflewombat|talk]]) 00:41, 10 March 2024 (UTC)
:possible suggestion -

:* '''Colorless''' spells and permanents exist as well in the game, most often in the form of [[Magic: The Gathering rules#Lands|Lands]] and [[Magic: The Gathering rules#Artifacts|Artifacts]]. Unlike the five colors, "colorless " does not have a specific personality or style of play. Often colorless permanents and spells are linked to one or more colors via their special abilities (such as {{mtgcard|Gruul War Plow}}), or more rarely, through their actual casting cost (such as {{mtgcard|Ghostfire}}).

:If something like this meets approval, my suggestion would be slight changes to the Multi-colored paragraph as well, so all seven have same formatting. - [[User:IanCheesman|IanCheesman]] ([[User talk:IanCheesman|talk]]) 16:40, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

::Feel free to help out, but do keep in mind the article is sorta' over-long already. Try not to add too much text. I'd suggest leading into it slightly better, though. How about
::*Cards which are not one of the five colors are considered '''colorless''', and most often appear in the form of [[Magic: The Gathering rules#Lands|Lands]] and [[Magic: The Gathering rules#Artifacts|Artifacts]]. Unlike the five colors, Colorless cards do not have a specific personality or style of play. Often colorless cards are linked to one or more colors via their abilities, or more rarely through their actual casting cost.
::This also makes some minor changes and cuts out the card references (I've been trying to remove as many of them as possible, to remove excess text). One thing to try to keep in mind is to say "cards" instead of "permanents" and/or "spells" where possible. This will avoid confusion on the part of readers who aren't at all familiar with the Magic player jargon. Cheers. <font color="green">[[User:Lifebaka|''lifebaka'']]</font>[[User talk:Lifebaka|'''++''']] 20:42, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

:::Gotcha, sounds good to me! - [[User:IanCheesman|IanCheesman]] ([[User talk:IanCheesman|talk]]) 07:34, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

{{Talk:Magic: The Gathering/GA1}}

== Organized play. ==

I did some pruning to the article but one thing that I came across that might just need to be cut down is the organized play section particularly "Tournament structure." A lot of it is good information, but I'm not sure it is good information that should stay in this article. Also it is the section that seems to contain the most potentially dating material as it refers to which sets are in the current formats even though they change every year. I think a quick explanation on constructed explaining the nature of formats:

They are each composed of specific groups of cards with Extended, standard, and block each containing a different percentage of the total card pool and rotating as new sets come out and that vintage and legacy don't limit the size of the card pool by set. In addition to restrictions on which groups of cards can be used some cards are banned for being too powerful, or occasionally for (in the case a select few older cards) interacting negatively with the current rules of the game.

In limited a person is presented a group of packaged cards which they have to use to build a deck at the event. Limited decks only have to be 40 cards (as opposed to 60) and can have any number of an individual card in a deck (as opposed to the usual limit of 4). The two main forms of limited are sealed, where a person is given multiple packs of cards to use as their total card pool and draft where a person is given fewer packs, but they are passed around the table of players, with each person picking cards from each pack, allowing a player to select a few cards from each of the participants packs. In both cases basic land cards can be obtained freely.

They're not elegant, but they cut out a lot of the stuff that most people don't have to know about. The only thing I can think I left out was talk of a sideboard. Other than this basically all that has to be said is that there is a good spectrum of tournaments ranging from casual ones and FNM's to the fact that there are PTQ's and other non-invitational tourneys like GPs and states/regionals, to invitationals like the pro tour and worlds which are top ranked and have sizable prizes (the actual invitational doesn't need to be mentioned at all). Anything else that can't fit in a short paragraph can probably be moved to the DCI page if necessary. [[User:Pwright329|Pwright329]] ([[User talk:Pwright329|talk]]) 09:22, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

:I agree on everything you said. Probably some of the "Tournament Structure" part can be copied to [[The DCI]].
:The pruned version looks very good, too. I went over the article a few days ago, but not as thoroughly as you did. In the tournament spectrum I would add an extra sentence for Worlds. [[User:OdinFK|OdinFK]] ([[User talk:OdinFK|talk]]) 09:39, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

== Net decking section ==

I removed this section:

The [[Internet]] has played an important role in competitive ''Magic''. Strategy discussions and tournament reports frequently include a listing of the exact contents of a deck and descriptions of its performance against others. Some players will take this information and construct a similar (or identical) deck, relying on the expertise and experience of other players. This strategy, referred to as "net decking", although typically reliable, is not a guarantee that the player will be able to repeat the deck's earlier success. The player may be inexperienced, unfamiliar with the operation of the deck, or enter an event where a large number of other players have also "net decked". In such a tournament, a "metagame" deck (one designed to defeat common builds in an environment) may be a superior choice. Some players advocate Limited formats of competitive ''Magic'' over Constructed formats because of this phenomenon.

from the "controversies" section because I don't see how it's articulating a controversy. If someone wants to rework it into the article some other way, or find reliable sources to describe and support the idea that it's controversial, then I'm pasting it here for reference/use. [[User:Croctotheface|Croctotheface]] ([[User talk:Croctotheface|talk]]) 00:35, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

== Loss of life vs. Damage. ==

I thought that the part that talks about each color and thier traits should include the fact that Red tends to deal with direct damage, the drawback being that creatures can regenerate from damage, and Black tends to deal with loss of life which regeneration has no effect on. Also this may or may not be important to the article but maybe a mention that with enough loss of life on a indestructibloe creature it will put that creature into the graveyard, this is a slight advantage that black has over other colors. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/216.48.130.33|216.48.130.33]] ([[User talk:216.48.130.33|talk]]) 15:14, 28 January 2009 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

:The distinction you is not really correct. Red deals damage to creatures and players and black "deals" life loss to players and -x/-X to creatures, most of the at least. The difference, while mattering to actual gameplay, is pretty technical in its nature and I think in an introductory article readers should not be confused with such. [[User:OdinFK|OdinFK]] ([[User talk:OdinFK|talk]]) 12:23, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

== Use of Italics ==

The article needs some copyediting regarding the use of Italics. At least in the constructed section these don't seem to be employed consistently. If anyone knows the dos and donts it would be great if s/he would improve this. Otherwise I'll do it in a couple of days I guess. Regards, [[User:OdinFK|OdinFK]] ([[User talk:OdinFK|talk]]) 21:55, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

:Had a look at those guidelines. Actually computer games and video game titles are supposed to be in intalics, but board and card games are not mentioned. In the article most of the games mentioned were in italics, though. I guess it makes sense to "stretch" the guideline a little in this respect. Therefore I changed the remaning game names to be in italics. [[User:OdinFK|OdinFK]] ([[User talk:OdinFK|talk]]) 12:26, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

== Links in introduction ==

It's really just very minor edits, but since I'm supposed to discuss changes to the intro here first:
I Think two links could be improved
*in the second paragraph the word "wizards" is not linked to the article about wizards, but planeswalkers instead. "Planeswalkers" are introduced a few words later, resulting in two links to the planeswalker article. "Wizards" should really link to [[Magician (fantasy)]].
*the third paragraph "organized tournament system" links to a redirect page. Can be linked to the real page instead.
Any opposition?
[[User:OdinFK|OdinFK]] ([[User talk:OdinFK|talk]]) 09:01, 12 February 2009 (UTC)
:Nope, go for it. It looks like "organized tournament system" has been linked to [[The DCI]], though. [[User:Shanata|Shanata]] ([[User talk:Shanata|talk]]) 09:57, 21 April 2009 (UTC)

== Cleanup Tag ==

Is the article still considered to require cleanup? I think it is quite good right now. Still the GA stuff has mostly not been fixed yet, but that has not so much to do with cleanup. [[User:OdinFK|OdinFK]] ([[User talk:OdinFK|talk]]) 12:48, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

== "Magic Cards"? ==

I'm wondering if anyone can verify the accuracy of this. I've played MtG since its release, and have lived and played for long enough in each of the midwest, south, and eastern coastal US to know that if this is an American thing, it must be a west coast thing if at all (and a friend of mine from CA says he's never heard it either). I mean, I've heard the '''cards''' referred to as "Magic Cards", but I've never heard the '''game''' so described, as in "Hey, you want to go play Magic Cards?" In fact, I've never heard anything used the describe the game except "Magic" or, rarely, its full title.

So is this a west coast / Euro thing, or is someone confusing a description for the cards with a description for the game? Because in terms of accuracy, the first sentence of the article is referring to the game as a singular concept, not the cards as a collective group. -[[User:Kasreyn|Kasreyn]] ([[User talk:Kasreyn|talk]]) 19:24, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
:Three months is plenty of time for response. I'm removing it. -[[User:Kasreyn|Kasreyn]] ([[User talk:Kasreyn|talk]]) 22:42, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

== Tweaks and Color Wheel suggestion ==

Hi all,

I've added a few minor changes to the Color Wheel section (my main concern being that Vigilance is a much better example keyword for White than First Strike, which is commonly red as well as white, whereas Vigilance is about 90/10 white/green.

Another concern is that the article is about the game ''as a whole'', but the color wheel section clearly only describes the game ''as it is today''. Historically, the color wheel has gone through a LOT of changes. For one thing, Shroud, Haste, and Vigilance did not always exist (hard as it is to imagine today, only one creature in Alpha had one of those abilities - the lovely Serra Angel). To boot, the colors were once very, VERY unbalanced, with White being capable of doing just about anything it pleased (killing creatures was no problem with Swords to Plowshares). Also, once upon a time green had the fog effects rather than white, and black had the best library manipulation around.

My question is, should we insert a small paragraph, not going into specifics, but simply noting that the arrangement of abilities has been altered since the game's release, and that white was once very dominant? I would be happy to find a source for the claim of white's superiority, it shouldn't be hard to find. The question is whether the "color wheel" section ought to describe the game as a whole rather than as it is now. Of course, it's probably pretty unlikely that a newbie will read this article and then go jump straight into Legacy and be upset - he'll probably get an intro pack. Still, though.

-[[User:Kasreyn|Kasreyn]] ([[User talk:Kasreyn|talk]]) 19:58, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

:I think it is a good idea to point out, that this describes the current state of the colour wheel. But it should also be mentioned, that the wheel might change again in the future. Something along the lines of "The colour wheel was hardly defined in the early days. After WotC tried to balance the wheel between 19xx and 20yy, changes are coming now at a slower pace". Okay, far from perfect, but you probably see the point. The statement about white being dominant: I disagree. White could do a lot of things, but dominance is very likely to be confused. Was white dominant in the beginning? Certainly not, blue cards were all over the place (with white coming in a good second).

:I think the paragraph should describe the game as it is now, but with a few words (if possible) put it in perspective, too. [[User:OdinFK|OdinFK]] ([[User talk:OdinFK|talk]]) 09:45, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

Concerning the list of Red's disadvantages, I feel that is should be mentioned that red has a harder time dealing with the largest of creatures since the majority of the burn spells that are printed don't deal much more than 4 damage. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/199.111.189.148|199.111.189.148]] ([[User talk:199.111.189.148|talk]]) 23:00, 30 May 2010 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

== MTG Original Creator ==
No where does it mention the others who helped create MTG, the article simply gives all the credit to Garfield. This is not factually correct, as many articles and personal accounts shows that others worked very hard to help create MTG but simply bot nothing for their troubles. The fact is despite the fact that he may have gotton all the money, etc for it, he was not the only/original creator. As such I have added a 'disputed' tag to the article. [[User:Belgarath TS|Belgarath TS]] ([[User talk:Belgarath TS|talk]]) 21:50, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
:I've removed the tag. Calling the entire article disputed for just the single bit is a bit dramatic. Do feel free to correct this inaccuracy, though. Cheers. <font color="green">[[User:Lifebaka|''lifebaka'']]</font>[[User talk:Lifebaka|'''++''']] 22:09, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
::I added a line to the front end of the History section that indicates that the game: 1) was developed at Whitman 2) by Dr Garfield and 3) he was aided by volunteer gametesters. I am hoping this solves the dispute? Will wait for responses. [[User:Nothingofwater|Nothingofwater]] ([[User talk:Nothingofwater|talk]]) 00:30, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
:::Names, as in Barry Reich and Skaff Elias, might be good. But I'm sure there were others and I wouldn't want to slight some by not including them. -[[User:Kasreyn|Kasreyn]] ([[User talk:Kasreyn|talk]]) 22:41, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

== Buncha fixes ==
I went through the article and pared out a lot of details that felt like someone's pet peeve, or favourite bit of trivia, or even an event that might have felt significant "at the time," like the Mirrodin artifact frame darkening thing. I think the main article really suffered from including whatever obscure details someone felt like including. The current version could probably still use paring down (I'm not sure stuff like the "big deck mulligan rule" really belongs in the main MtG article, for instance,) but I didn't want to do too much too quickly. Thoughts, comments, criticism? --[[User:Ashenai|Ashenai]] ([[User talk:Ashenai|talk]]) 12:19, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

:Hey Ashenai!
:Great work. I have been trying to do this for a while and reworked/removed parts whereever I deemed it possible, but I am very much into the game so I often don't see "You should leave this out parts" despite on some level knowing that the article is overcomprehensive. For all the parts you have removed/rewritten, they are much better now in my opinion.
:There is one thing which is not correct, though. You changed the Black Lotus being the most valuable non-promotional to non-unique. This is not true as Splendid Genesis, Blue Hurricane, Proposal, and a few other cards are more valuable. The print run of each of those cards is supposed to be somewhere in the dozens (of Proposal there are even fewer), thus they are clearly not unique. Neither non-promotional nor non-unique really gets to the point. Maybe you have a better idea, but I have none right now. Thanks again for the good work, [[User:OdinFK|OdinFK]] ([[User talk:OdinFK|talk]]) 12:37, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

::Thanks very much! I changed "non-unique" back to "non-promotional." I agree that this is still not perfect, because blue Hurricanes are definitely not promotional. On the other hand, I actually think (I'm not 100% sure) that they go for less money than Black Lotuses, even though they're more rare --[[User:Ashenai|Ashenai]] ([[User talk:Ashenai|talk]]) 13:12, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

{{Talk:Magic: The Gathering/GA2}}

== Image ==

It might be time to update the 3x2 card image. It has 10th edition cards and includes Icy Manipulator. A M10 3x2 card image should replace it. --[[User:Mjrmtg|Mjrmtg]] ([[User talk:Mjrmtg|talk]]) 13:55, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

:If you want to scan a few new cards, be my guest. I might suggest adding a bit more diversity to the card types, like including a planeswalker, too. Unfortunately I don't have a scanner. [[User:OdinFK|OdinFK]] ([[User talk:OdinFK|talk]]) 18:10, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

::It took me 4 months, but I finally scanned M10 cards and added a Planeswalker to the mix. --[[User:Mjrmtg|Mjrmtg]] ([[User talk:Mjrmtg|talk]]) 00:49, 7 December 2009 (UTC)

:::Doesn't matter. Thanks for doing it! [[User:OdinFK|OdinFK]] ([[User talk:OdinFK|talk]]) 13:42, 7 December 2009 (UTC)

==Artwork outcry==
There was an major outcry several years ago about the artwork change, right after 7th Edition I believe, can we find a source for inclusion? [[User:Sephiroth storm|Sephiroth storm]] ([[User talk:Sephiroth storm|talk]]) 08:00, 9 August 2009 (UTC)
:Probably not. There was a "major outcry" over every single change in Magic, including (but not limited to) the 6th Edition rules changes, the Mirrodin artifact border changes, the 2/2 block structure of Lorwyn/Shadowmoor, the introduction of Mythic Rares, the introduction of basic lands into booster packs, the new rules changes, and the phasing out of tournament packs. Unless you have a source that shows that the "outcry" consisted of more than people screaming "MAGIC IS DYING" on Internet forums, it's not notable. --[[User:Ashenai|Ashenai]] ([[User talk:Ashenai|talk]]) 19:38, 15 August 2009 (UTC)
::It's too bad. I heard that hundreds, if not more letters were sent to WOC requesting that they stop the change. That's the reason I stopped playing. A company should listen to its players, not bow to popular culture. [[User:Sephiroth storm|Sephiroth storm]] ([[User talk:Sephiroth storm|talk]]) 21:10, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

== Feature article ==

Any way to possibly put this article up as a contender for being a feature article? I think with a few minor edits, it deserves a shot at the spotlight. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/74.37.149.125|74.37.149.125]] ([[User talk:74.37.149.125|talk]]) 10:55, 11 August 2009 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
:Check out [[WP:FA]]. [[User:Sephiroth storm|Sephiroth storm]] ([[User talk:Sephiroth storm|talk]]) 11:32, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

== Awards list ==

I don't want to revert the tag, but I do want to say that I don't think the awards list is better presented as prose. It may perhaps be wise to integrate more of the content from the list into the prose part of the section, but converting the whole thing would make it more difficult for someone who was just interested in seeing what awards the game won to find and compare those awards. I'd leave the list in. [[User:Croctotheface|Croctotheface]] ([[User talk:Croctotheface|talk]]) 16:41, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

:That's exactly what I think. There is not much to gain from converting the list to prose either. It's not as there were a lot of context to present. It's just more or less random awards the game received. I still prefer the list although it could technically be converted to prose. [[User:OdinFK|OdinFK]] ([[User talk:OdinFK|talk]]) 06:29, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

== No Criticisms? ==

Very strange that this article doesn't have a section for criticisms of Magic. Very strange. [[Special:Contributions/24.224.56.58|24.224.56.58]] ([[User talk:24.224.56.58|talk]]) 16:33, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

:The article contains critical aspects of the game in several sections. Aside from the fact that your assertion is not really correct, what do you want us to tell with your statement? [[User:OdinFK|OdinFK]] ([[User talk:OdinFK|talk]]) 18:01, 13 September 2009 (UTC)
:What would you like to include in such a section? With proper sources, of course. --[[User:Ashenai|Ashenai]] ([[User talk:Ashenai|talk]]) 10:10, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

== Maximum limit on a deck? ==

I know that in a Yu-Gi-Oh tournament, you can't have more than 60 cards in your deck. But what about Magic? Is there an upper bound to how many cards you can have in a deck? I didn't see it in the article, is all. Most people try to cut it down to 60 anyway, but I was just wondering. [[User:Ztobor|Z'''t'''O'''b'''O'''r''']] 00:45, 25 September 2009 (UTC)
:There isn't an upper limit in Constructed. In Limited you've got a smaller pool, but no limit other than practical ones. Cheers. <font color="green">[[User:Lifebaka|''lifebaka'']]</font>[[User talk:Lifebaka|'''++''']] 00:48, 25 September 2009 (UTC)
i remember reading somewhere that you just need to be able to shuffle your deck. however, the 4-of rule means it's not practical to enlargen your deck after a while, since you'll not get the cards you need soon enough.[[User:Jds500|Jds500]] ([[User talk:Jds500|talk]]) 18:30, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

As per most tournament rules (rules vary across formats) you must have a minimum of 60 cards in your deck, there is no maximum except the stipulation that you must be able to sufficiently shuffle your deck without assistance. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/24.9.120.50|24.9.120.50]] ([[User talk:24.9.120.50|talk]]) 13:39, 24 May 2010 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

== Two Card Characters and Locations ==

Years ago I had a friend who played Magic. He showed me two sets of cards. One was of a giant, I think named BFG and teh character required two cards to be seen completely. The other was a bar and it too used two cards. The only connecting thing was a guy being thrown from one card to the other. Does anyone else know anything about these? One of my new friends is playing this and I told him about them, and he has never heard of them. I hope I'm not crazy. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/71.80.84.242|71.80.84.242]] ([[User talk:71.80.84.242|talk]]) 02:38, 2 October 2009 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

:This is not supposed to be trivia discussion about Magic: The Gathering, but as you ask: The first card is B.F.M. without a doubt. The abbrevation standing for "Big Furry Monster". I'm not aware of any cards split like BFM, but if there is any it would have to be either from [[Unglued]] as BFM or Unglued's successor, [[Unhinged (Magic: The Gathering)|Unhinged]]. Hope this helps a bit, [[User:OdinFK|OdinFK]] ([[User talk:OdinFK|talk]]) 21:16, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

:Like [[User:OdinFK|OdinFK]] said, the first card(s) is BFG, which does require both cards to be played. The two cards Free-for-All and I'm Rubber, You're Glue are the cards with overlapping art, although there is no other connection between them. The joke was repeated to a greater extent in Unhinged, with A.W.O.L. and Urza's Hot Tub, where the creature from one is missing and can be found in the other. However, as all of these are from Un sets, none of them are legal in almost any format, and thus have no real purpose to discuss in the article. - [[User:IanCheesman|IanCheesman]] ([[User talk:IanCheesman|talk]]) 00:04, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

== First strike, flying, trample, etc are NOT proper nouns ==

I noticed in this article that we're capitalizing the keyword abilities, such as flying. This is just incorrect; those are not proper nouns, and they're not rendered in title case on the cards; they sometimes happen to be capitalized because they're often at the start of a line. We need to fix this throughout the article and at any other articles that do the same thing. [[User:Croctotheface|Croctotheface]] ([[User talk:Croctotheface|talk]]) 10:55, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

== Unusual Card Abilities ==

I think it should be noted that a few Magic cards have effects dealing with abstract concepts rarely involved in this type of card game. For example, many deal wholly with the lettering of cards, such as the comical card, "Monkey Monkey Monkey". A much more extreme and bizarre example would be the "Goblin Mime", which is discarded if the owner speaks. [[User:Brandonrc2|Brandonrc2]] ([[User talk:Brandonrc2|talk]]) 02:44, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

:These kinds of cards only appear in ''Unglued'' and ''Unhinged''. Both sets are far out of the usual Magic universe. Maybe there is a place in the article that could mention the existence of these ''un''seriours sets because as far as I know these are indeed ununsual, but I don't think anything much more specific should be mentioned. [[User:OdinFK|OdinFK]] ([[User talk:OdinFK|talk]]) 13:41, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

:In the Unhinged and Unglued Sets the Card's Are Illegal To Play In Tornament's.
These Sets are For Parodic And Comidic Value only, and Most Respectible MTG players don't Own any because
They Have Such Strange and Bizzare Name's, Effect's And Picture's. You Can Tell Unhinged Card's By The Silverish Border.
Unglued However Has No Obvious Tell's Like that Other Than the Expantion Symbol.
[http://s3.hubimg.com/u/742518_f260.jpg Here] is an Example of an Unglued card.
So Look Out for that If you think a card has an ununsual Effect.
--[[User:Conkern65|Conkern65]] ([[User talk:Conkern65|talk]]) 21:11, 9 July 2010 (UTC)

::"Most respectable Magic players don't own any". What's that supposed to mean? If you mean respectable = competitive player than I propose that the reason is, that these cards are not legal for competitive play. And btw Unglued has silver boarders, too. Your Timmy picture only doesn't show it. Try Gatherer... [[User:OdinFK|OdinFK]] ([[User talk:OdinFK|talk]]) 07:18, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

== 13+ age? ==

Anyone know why Magic is supposed to be for ages 13 and up? I'm thinking just how complex it is could be kinda difficult for younger players.--[[User:Barkjon|<span style="color:#fd0;background:#000">&nbsp;B<span style="color:#f90">a<span style="color:#f50">r<span style="color:#f00">k</span>j</span>o</span>n&nbsp;</span>]] <small>[[User talk:Barkjon|complaints here!]]</small> 17:51, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

:I recall that somebody taught me the basics when Alpha came out. I think I was 8 or 10 at the time, and I understood every aspect of the game (the five colors, card types, how tap meant rotate). By the way, I have mild autism and maybe that's a factor in this (I've tried to teach at least 3 other people with no success) [[User:PowerUserPCDude|Yeah dude, PowerUserPCDude was here (yeah)]] ([[User talk:PowerUserPCDude|talk]]) 18:52, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

::Technically it's what the wrapper says, but that's obviously not the explanation. Actually as far as I know Wizards knows that many kids under 13 play Magic and is very happy with that. The "13+" comes from the depiction of monstrosities, especially in black and some mild nudity, again especially in black. Just like the movies you may not advertise this for the broad audience as suitable for all ages, but if your parents will let their ten-year old watch an 13+ movie at home respectively let him/her play Magic at the kitchen table, because they think he/she is mature enough, then there is no problem. [[User:OdinFK|OdinFK]] ([[User talk:OdinFK|talk]]) 20:52, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

:Yep, thought Black was a contributing factor in the 13+ thing. Black illustrations can get pretty gruesome looking. Plus, the game is pretty dang complex - and the rules change often.--[[User:Barkjon|<span style="color:#fd0;background:#000">&nbsp;B<span style="color:#f90">a<span style="color:#f50">r<span style="color:#f00">k</span>j</span>o</span>n&nbsp;</span>]] <small>[[User talk:Barkjon|complaints here!]]</small> 20:03, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
personnally, in addition to the above, i think it's also because Wizards didn't think everyone under thirteen would be able to play well, but you get that at mostt ages so I think it's moot... besides, i was tought by a ten year old. [[User:Jds500|Jds500]] ([[User talk:Jds500|talk]]) 18:33, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

I think the 13+ came up around the same time MTG was being criticized for printing things like 'demons' and just being a game concerning magic in general. Also you do things like kill elves etc. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/24.9.120.50|24.9.120.50]] ([[User talk:24.9.120.50|talk]]) 13:43, 24 May 2010 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
::Does anyone have a source for the age restriction? A lot of people try to change it to 12, adding a link to a source may finally stop this.--[[User:Narayan|Narayan]] ([[User talk:Narayan|talk]]) 13:49, 21 September 2010 (UTC)
:::It says so on any booster pack you can get your hands on. Shouldn't that be enough? Actually I don't think Wizards mentions it anywhere on their website, but if you really, really want to be sure try [http://www.wizards.com/magic/tcg/productarticle.aspx?x=mtg/tcg/magic2011/productinfo this] and take a real good look at the lower right corner of the booster box. [[User:OdinFK|OdinFK]] ([[User talk:OdinFK|talk]]) 06:24, 22 September 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, i see. The older booster packs i still have don't mention this, seems like a later addition to the cover? A pity nothing is mentioned about this on the mtg site. Thanks for clearing this out anyway!--[[User:Narayan|Narayan]] ([[User talk:Narayan|talk]]) 18:25, 22 September 2010 (UTC)
::Um, doesn't this information seem a little subjective, variable, and unencyclopedic, not to mention almost unsourcable? Conversation here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_talk:Collectible_card_games#Infoboxes [[User:2birds1stone|2birds1stone]] ([[User talk:2birds1stone|talk]]) 11:43, 25 July 2011 (UTC)

== Skills required: [[Common Sense]] ==

This is a little strange for an infobox's contents. I'm not fully experienced in wiki matters but is this common and acceptable? It certainly doesn't read in an encyclopedic way. And (edit) I forgot to mention that the person adding it didn't bother to check if it directed to the literary or colloquial term. [[Special:Contributions/98.111.220.242|98.111.220.242]] ([[User talk:98.111.220.242|talk]]) 01:38, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

:I haven't played it, but I hang around enough people that play it that they sometimes forget I don't play. I don't see how the game requires any more common sense than any other. Actually, since the unabridged official rules book is over 200 pages or something like that, I'd say that it involves as much rules-lawyering as any RPG. And since it's a competative game, not a cooperative one, common sense would probably be ignored. I'll remove it, but since this isn't on my watchlist, I'm not gonna enforce that removal. [[User:Ian.thomson|Ian.thomson]] ([[User talk:Ian.thomson|talk]]) 01:47, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

::I play the game a lot and while I don't really agree to the rules-lawyering aspect, common sense certainly does not distinguish Magic from other games. Considering that the rules of the game and not those of reality determine what you can do, "common sense" might actually be detrimental to the successful playing of the game. [[User:OdinFK|OdinFK]] ([[User talk:OdinFK|talk]]) 22:09, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

Since someone readded this, I'll just add my voice to the consensus that it doesn't belong. "Common sense" is already an ill-defined term, and I don't really see what of "common sense" wouldn't be covered by "logic" anyway. I also pretty much agree with the other concerns that other editors have raised here. [[User:Croctotheface|Croctotheface]] ([[User talk:Croctotheface|talk]]) 01:26, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

== Invalid references ==

Some ref links are dead or changed: 45, 16, 17 --[[User:Trollmen|Trollmen]] ([[User talk:Trollmen|talk]]) 16:18, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

== MTG has Cards From 1991 ==

I have Cards From Before Alpha and Their dated 1991.
I Know the Official Release Was in '93 but i think becaause there are multipule pre-alpha cards that it should be changed from 1993 to 1991. <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Conkern65|Conkern65]] ([[User talk:Conkern65|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Conkern65|contribs]]) 20:54, 9 July 2010 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

:Where would these come from? Playtest cards don't really count. Also Magic cards show their copyright only since late 1994, so how would you know, that your cards are from 1991? [[User:OdinFK|OdinFK]] ([[User talk:OdinFK|talk]]) 06:21, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

:When they first introduced "Flying", They had a card called "Bog Imp". I couldent find one from 1991, But i have one right here. Bog imp 1/1 costs one black and one colourless with no flavour text. The only one i could find on the internet was one from 1994. <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Conkern65|Conkern65]] ([[User talk:Conkern65|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Conkern65|contribs]]) 18:51, 14 July 2010 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
::The card you mention is actually from [[The Dark (Magic: The Gathering)|The Dark]], Summer 94. "Flying was first introduced" with the introduction of the game, August 93... [[User:OdinFK|OdinFK]] ([[User talk:OdinFK|talk]]) 06:26, 22 September 2010 (UTC)

== Game inspired by a baseball game? ==
I could have sworn that in the early days of this game, either in the rulebook or in an interview with Garfield, he said that the game was inspired by a card game he played that centered around baseball. I was never sure if he meant he played a game like MtG but centered around baseball or if he played a game with baseball cards with baseball stats to play a game. Never knowing quite what he meant fixed this fact in my head for all these years. Anyone else remember this? Anyone know what game he was talking about? Also, I think any game that inspired Magic, certainly deserves inclusion. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/68.9.146.69|68.9.146.69]] ([[User talk:68.9.146.69|talk]]) 23:34, 25 October 2010 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
:I don't think I ever heard of it and I have read quite a lot about this game. On the other hand it's quite obvious that Richard took some inspiration from trading cards. I mean it's no coincidence that these cards are called "Trading Cards" and Magic is a "Trading Card Game". But then Richard -as far as I know- is a bit of a scholar of games, so inspiration comes from all sort of games, but it's a too simplifying to just say "this comes from that and this from that game". Do you have any clue where this statement comes from? Maybe an early Duelist? The rulebook it is most definitely not, though. [[User:OdinFK|OdinFK]] ([[User talk:OdinFK|talk]]) 06:23, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
::Richard Garfield's main inspiration for Magic was the game [[Cosmic Encounter]], first published in 1977. Richard is quoted from various sources that he appreciated Encounters ability to use cards for "game-changing effects". You can use the references in the article for his quotes, or you can just google Richard Garfield and cosmic encounter, as he's listed in several online articles and blogs talking about Encounters influence in his designs at many conventions and game design symposiums. The baseball game that's circling in your head is probably the reference to an early [[Collectible Card Game]] that is mentioned in that article.--[[User:Sparkygravity|Sparkygravity]] ([[User talk:Sparkygravity|talk]]) 19:58, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

Random surfer - Yay, I can contribute to explaining what you are talking about. <i>Drafting</i> cards from booster packs was inspired by a baseball game (can't remember the name of it). In the baseball game you started the game by putting a random selection of cards on the table and taking turns picking players (cards). Since the playtesters knew the cards would be distributed in booster packs they made this work quicker by having each player open a booster pack and picking the cards at the same time. This is the reason drafting is called drafting; after the sports term. Can not remember where I've read this, so no source, sorry, but I suspect it was some article on magicthegathering.com. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/83.226.9.74|83.226.9.74]] ([[User talk:83.226.9.74|talk]]) 00:22, 6 February 2011 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

== recent "mana curve" addition ==

I wonder if this [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Magic:_The_Gathering&curid=18830&diff=394099835&oldid=393984650 recent edit], has real encyclopedical value. The subject seems noteworthy, but is written like a player guide, not like something you would expect in an encyclopedia. Also, the sources given (playing experience etc.) are in fact a violation of [[Wikipedia:No original research]]. What does everybody think about this?--[[User:Narayan|Narayan]] ([[User talk:Narayan|talk]]) 10:55, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

:Agree, it could be interesting, but not as currently written. - [[User:IanCheesman|IanCheesman]] ([[User talk:IanCheesman|talk]]) 14:13, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

::Even if rewritten to have encyclopedic value, I don't think this belongs in the main article. It's way to detailed. Maybe could be used somewhere else, though. [[User:OdinFK|OdinFK]] ([[User talk:OdinFK|talk]]) 16:02, 1 November 2010 (UTC)
:::So, will we remove this part? Unless someane rewrites it and adds proper sources?--[[User:Narayan|Narayan]] ([[User talk:Narayan|talk]]) 18:01, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

::::Yes, I think it is appropriate to remove it. For easier future reference the removed passage was "Another aspect that a player must consider when constructing their deck is the mana curve.The mana curve is the distribution of mana costs from low to high within the deck. This is achieved by checking the converted mana costs of all the cards when choosing what creatures and spells are going to be used in the deck. In most cases, the lower the mana cost the faster the deck can swarm the field and gain control of the game flow. When the mana cost is higher, the opposite is true, the speed of the game tends to be slower as the player tries to build up the amount of usable mana to play the higher cost spells. Overall, a balance of low and high cost creatures is the ideal situation so that a player can have the defense they need with the low cost creatures while building up the amount of mana available to use the high cost creature or spells to overrun their opponent. The best way to check the mana curve of a deck is to take all the cards that the player wishes to use and lay them out by cost, going from left to right, low cost to high cost. A majority of spells should fall between the 0-3 cost range and branch out slowly into the 4-5+ mana cost range. This will ensure an even spread of mana usage throughout the game and keep the player in better standings to always be able to play a creature or spell when needed." [[User:OdinFK|OdinFK]] ([[User talk:OdinFK|talk]]) 10:57, 2 November 2010 (UTC)

== History ==

At the history section i read: "Richard Garfield, the creator of the game, was a professor at Whitman College in 1993.", while the end of the very same paragraph reads: ''after two years of development Magic: The Gathering underwent a general release on 5 August 1993''. Which makes me think about the source for that two year period? Is that two year period wrong, or the ''professor'' section, or doesn't the line about garfield being a professor matter at all?--[[User:Narayan|Narayan]] ([[User talk:Narayan|talk]]) 21:35, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

:It says this, too: "He worked in his spare time with local volunteer playtesters to help refine the game during the 1993 school year." In my opinion that should sufficiently clear, actually I don't really get what you find displeasing about this paragraph. Anyway I guess I can dig up a source for the two-year-period if you distrust that statement. [[User:OdinFK|OdinFK]] ([[User talk:OdinFK|talk]]) 15:31, 7 February 2011 (UTC)
:::Well, shouldn't that date be 1991 then? If he was developing the game for 2 years? So, what i'm saying is, shouldn't the history paragraph be starting with "Development of Magic: The Gathering started in 1991"?--[[User:Narayan|Narayan]] ([[User talk:Narayan|talk]]) 17:07, 7 February 2011 (UTC)
::::Ah, I see. Yeah, I guess chronological order makes sense. Although you might want to use just 'Magic' as product name. The 'The Gathering' part was added much later. The name of the game actually was Mana Clash at that point if I recall correctly. [[User:OdinFK|OdinFK]] ([[User talk:OdinFK|talk]]) 07:39, 8 February 2011 (UTC)
:Is there any good source with information about the early days of magic? Cause right now the first sentence: ''Richard Garfield, the creator of the game, was a professor at Whitman College in 1993. In his spare time he worked with local volunteer playtesters to help refine the game during the 1993 school year.'' reads like a step got skipped. Where did "the game" come from? I removed the two year-devolopment part, but it seems like there should be some more information to be inserted at the very beginning of this section.--[[User:Narayan|Narayan]] ([[User talk:Narayan|talk]]) 20:04, 4 July 2011 (UTC)
:: I am utterly certain that at some point in the early 1990s, he posted to one of the rec.games.design newsgroups (rec.games.design.board?) about having developed the game and wondering what to do with it. The reason I remember it is that I went 'A game where you lose cards forever to someone because they play a card you've never heard of? Nah, it'll never sell' to myself. Obviously, I was wrong about that, but the only problem with proving my memory about the post is that I cannot find it in any online archive. [[User:Lovingboth|Lovingboth]] ([[User talk:Lovingboth|talk]]) 00:37, 3 August 2011 (UTC)

== Gameplay summary unclear ==

The section about gameplay is unclear to me:
* Do the players know the cards on their opponent's hand?
* Do the players know the cards in their opponent's deck?
* Every player starts with a hand of seven cards. How were these seven cards chosen - randomly from the player's deck or deliberately?
* How does the game proceed - do players take turns? Take turns doing what?
* As game progresses, how does a player get new cards or discard cards? Do they always have seven cards on hand?
[[User:AxelBoldt|AxelBoldt]] ([[User talk:AxelBoldt|talk]]) 13:33, 30 August 2011 (UTC)
:I see the problem. I'll try to add some more about basics such as these later today. To avoid article bloat, I'll also trim the subsection explaining the colors, which doesn't need to be as large as it is. Cheers. <font color="green">[[User:Lifebaka|''lifebaka'']]</font>[[User talk:Lifebaka|'''++''']] 13:54, 30 August 2011 (UTC)

::[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Magic%3A_The_Gathering&action=historysubmit&diff=447513965&oldid=447508386 Done]. It could use tweaking and better integration, and perhaps some explicit references to pages in the rules, but that covers those points. Is there anything else you think should be included? <font color="green">[[User:Lifebaka|''lifebaka'']]</font>[[User talk:Lifebaka|'''++''']] 17:11, 30 August 2011 (UTC)

:::This is a lot better now, thanks! Still a few questions:
:::* I assume the initial 7 cards are drawn randomly from the player's own deck, right?
:::* The player whose turn it is plays the first card, right?
:::* "Playing a card" means following the instructions written on the card, and then discarding the card, is that correct?
:::* What if someone has fewer than 7 cards on hand? Do they draw a new card at that point?
:::Thanks again, [[User:AxelBoldt|AxelBoldt]] ([[User talk:AxelBoldt|talk]]) 16:17, 31 August 2011 (UTC)

::::Responses:
::::*Yes. I tried to make that clear by stating that players shuffle their decks before playing. Should I add something more explicit?
::::*The current player (i.e. player whose turn it is) at least gets the chance to play things first. I've tried to make this more explicit [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Magic%3A_The_Gathering&action=historysubmit&diff=447722976&oldid=447707857 here], but it feels awkward without going into it a bit deeper.
::::*This is covered in the third paragraph already. Some cards do what they say, then are discarded, while others stay in play, depending on card type.
::::*If a player has less than seven cards in hand, nothing special happens. They don't get to draw until they are back at seven or anything else. They just have fewer cards in hand (which may or may not be a good thing). I'm not sure if it's worth mentioning a lack of something.
::::I'm not going to be able to include the whole ruleset in the summary, or even enough that a player could learn off of it. Magic's rules are a bit too long to reasonably cover here. Cheers. <font color="green">[[User:Lifebaka|''lifebaka'']]</font>[[User talk:Lifebaka|'''++''']] 20:59, 31 August 2011 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 13:08, 12 April 2024

Good articleMagic: The Gathering has been listed as one of the Sports and recreation good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
On this day... Article milestones
DateProcessResult
October 19, 2005Featured article candidateNot promoted
February 2, 2006Good article nomineeListed
December 2, 2008Good article reassessmentDelisted
April 28, 2009Peer reviewReviewed
August 11, 2009Good article nomineeListed
On this day... A fact from this article was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the "On this day..." column on August 5, 2023.
Current status: Good article

None of the colors is better than the rest[edit]

Hi everyone. I suggest to add the information to the article that none of the colours in the game is better than the rest, that all of them have their own advantages and disadvantages. Could someone please do this? Thanks! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 181.1.220.13 (talk) 14:04, 14 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

This is unsourced and unsubstantiated. -- ferret (talk) 14:30, 14 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Although it is arguably corect and uncontroversial. But The anon didn't specify where to add it, and why should we bother at all. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 07:35, 16 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I think this paragraph actually mostly comes down to the anon's intent:
"The Research and Development (R&D) team at Wizards of the Coast aimed to balance power and abilities among the five colors by using the Color Pie to differentiate the strengths and weaknesses of each. This guideline lays out the capabilities, themes, and mechanics of each color and allows for every color to have its own distinct attributes and gameplay. The Color Pie is used to ensure new cards are thematically in the correct color and do not infringe on the territory of other colors."
As a matter of fact "none of the colours in the game is better than the rest" is also not literally true anyway. It is certainly what Wizards strives for and maybe even achieves to a laudable degree, but then Blue is considered the most colorful in old formats by almost everybody. Also there have been standard formats where colors stood head and shoulders above the rest or a single color was barely playable. So to sum it up, I think the article is pretty much fine where it is right now in this regard. OdinFK (talk) 09:26, 16 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Blue ;D Atomic putty? Rien! (talk) (talk) 14:00, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Hello again. I come to revive this topic. In a certain degree, it's practically true the statement: "None of the colors is better than the rest" because if you check clearly, everyone thinks that maybe Red and Green are the best in terms of strength and direct damage. But even Blue and White aren't less just because they are defense and healing counterparts. Blue and White also have their own way of attacking which is different from Red and Green (which is direct damage at the opponent's creatures and the opponent himself) that are also useful, such as the venom cards and emptying the deck to your opponent. I believe that this statement: "None of the colors is better than the rest" should be somewhere explained thoroughly in the article because it's important. What do you guys think? Please reply! Thanks! 190.231.171.103 (talk) 15:11, 10 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Still waiting for a reply... 181.110.70.239 (talk) 08:37, 16 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Well, if you think about it "none of the colours are better than the rest" is a statement, that cannot be proven in this matter-of-fact way. Magic is too big, dynamic and diverse for such a statement to mean a whole lot. You might find statements such as "In Legacy and Vintage blue is generally considered to be the most powerful colour". This is about perception, not facts and this might be added somewhere, but it is probably outside the scope of this article here.
The most meaningful thing going this direction, that I can think of to put in this article, is something like "Magic designers strive to balance the power level of the colours. Due the inherent difficulty of this task perfect balance is rarely achieved, but which colour ends up being strongest shifts over time." You can probably find some remark of Mark Rosewater to that end. If you want it in the article you got to dig for yourself, though. OdinFK (talk) 13:32, 16 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Rarity Section.[edit]

Hi, i recently made an image that describes the amount of common, uncommon, rare and mythic rare cards contained in Magic expansions. The italian section of Wikipedia has s rarity section that talks about these different rarities and the foil cards.

I'll leave the image here in case it can be useful to someone that wants to add that section here too.

Magic Rarities across Expansions Icovsworld (talk) 21:52, 1 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Icovsworld: It seems the data are incorrect. For instance since Shards of Alara set there are no rare cards, but you can see in this article that this is not the case; there are other major errors in the image though. --Phyrexian ɸ 05:45, 2 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
It was probably due some incorrect filtering i've done on the dataset, i didn't know about this other article with all the correct data, i'll use it and redo all the numbers correctly, thanks! Icovsworld (talk) 09:56, 2 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
it should be fine now! 93.41.120.168 (talk) 13:08, 5 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Without information on how this chart is being constructed and what the data sources is, it fails WP:V and WP:RS for use on Enwiki. -- ferret (talk) 13:59, 5 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Categories[edit]

For those familiar with the game, collecting and playing or both, the game contains cards of vampires and angels. I’d like to see this game added to Category:Vampires in games and Category:Angels in popular culture Twillisjr (talk) 17:01, 11 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Categories should be defining, per WP:CATDEF: A defining characteristic is one that reliable sources commonly and consistently refer to in describing the topic. Can you demonstrate that sources regularly refer to the fact that M:TG contains vampires and angels? M:TG contains nearly every fantasy (and many scifi) tropes that exist. We could put a million categories for dragons, vampires, elves, dwarves, orcs, angels, gods, demons, goblins, on and on. They are not defining. -- ferret (talk) 17:04, 11 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Life-total, or life total?[edit]

In the article, both versions are used. We should standardize, and use just one version. I had never seen "life total" spelled with a hyphen before reading this article, so my initial impulse would be to use the version without the hyphen. Thoughts? Wafflewombat (talk) 01:13, 9 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Update: I went ahead and standardized to "life total." Feel free to revert if there's a problem with this. Wafflewombat (talk) 00:41, 10 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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