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Archives

Archive 1 Archive 2 Archive 3 Archive 4: July 2007 to Sept 2009

I was looking for info on ecstasy and when I opened the ecstasy page it read as a sales pitch for ecstasy, no facts or harmful effects I didn't even know the MDMA page existed, the only link to this page is a link to Methylenedioxymethamphetamine, which many people (including I) will overlook as just a link to some chemical compound. The only things on the ecstasy page are a description of the positive effects, the ways to mitigate negative effects (without naming them), a list of about 25 substances that could be in ecstasy tablets, and a reference to a study that says how harmless ecstasy is.

Because of the lack of information and NPOV, I suggest that ecstasy (drug) become a redirect to MDMA. Maybe copy over the harm reduction section, but there are no sources on any of the claims there, so I suggest rewriting that into a new section as well.

A temporary solution would be to put at the top of the page a link to the MDMA page something like "For the active ingredient in ecstasy, see MDMA." I don't know how to do this, otherwise I would.

What do you all think? Holman.mike (talk) 03:12, 30 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

On a related note Talk:Ecstasy (drug) is erroneously redirecting here. I will amend this. Nick Cooper (talk) 13:22, 30 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

It's not "erroneously" redirecting here: El3ctr0nika (talk · contribs) forked the article in August, but didn't fork the talk page. I've re-merged and pinged the user. Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 15:18, 30 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I added more links on the Ecstasy (Drug) page to MDMA, including at the top of the page. Tova Hella (talk) 19:25, 30 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I restored the redirect pending a consensus being reached otherwise. --John (talk) 14:00, 1 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I'm changing the heading "Rebound / withdrawal" to "After effects". We could also use "Subacute effects", as "subacute" means between acute and chronic, but "after effects" is more common language. "Subacute" and "after" are the terms most commonly used in research articles for effects occurring within a week of MDMA use. Both terms are neutral, unlike "rebound" or "withdrawal".

"Rebound" implies that after effects are the opposite of acute MDMA effects. This up/down ecstasy/agony model is overly simplistic. Many after effects of MDMA are just a continuation of the acute side effects, and some may be a consequence of sleep deprivation (mood, Pirona and Morgan 2009 J Psychopharmacol) or physical activity (muscle ache).

"Withdrawal" implies that if people just continued taking MDMA repeatedly they would not experience these effects. Tova Hella (talk) 19:19, 19 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I edited the uncited sentence regarding chronic depression after use being attributable to brain damage. That's rather egregious misinformation if untrue so it definitely needs a citation. 67.233.200.190 (talk) 03:45, 6 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I've called for improved references in the Side effects and After effects sections. The first one forthcoming was - Lester SJ, Baggott M, Welm S, Schiller NB, Jones RT, Foster E, Mendelson J (2000). "Cardiovascular effects of 3,4-methylenedioxymethamphetamine. A double-blind, placebo-controlled trial" (PDF). Annals of Internal Medicine. 133: 969-973.{{cite journal}}: CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (link)

I suggest that it's somewhat dubious to add reference to a study which only speculates - "preexisting cardiovascular conditions could increase cardiovascular risk compared with the carefully screened healthy volunteers in our study" - in support of the contention that both tachycardia and hypertension are "most common adverse side effects reported by users".

--SallyScot (talk) 20:26, 21 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Draeco reverted the dubious tags 21:59, 21 November 2009. I've since updated so the whole section is referenced.

--SallyScot (talk) 23:24, 21 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I removed the following text from the article, because it implied that it was supported by references elsewhere in the article, but such references were absent. Please re-add the material, citing Reliable Sources if it is in fact accurate.

(along with paradoxical sexual dysfunction (see below))

Thanks, Vectro (talk) 23:18, 27 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I have marked this article as in need of globalization. It has alot of information that is not specific to any country - ie, the chemistry section. BUT, whenever it is possible for the shift to focus on a country, it focuses on either the US or UK.

The sections that in my opinion are most in need of work are "history", "legal issues", and "health concerns" - within health concerns, specifically the sub-sections "harm assessment" and "recommendation to downgrade" - it seems unbalanced to have so much detail on specific actions and assessments by health and government authorities in the UK, and no detail relating to any other countries.

Minor mention is made of europe (europe as a whole- not of any specific countries other than the UK). For instance, in the recreational use section, ecstasy prices are given in euros and US dollars (no other countries or currencies mentioned).

This article gives a strong impression that ecstasy is only used in the US and Europe (mainly the UK) - maybe someone could research a new section detailing the history and extent of MDMA use worldwide- or the "recreational use" section could be substantially expanded to include this information?

Brunk500 (talk) 16:55, 14 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

So ecstasy is perfectly fine to use? I get the impression in this article that it is pro-ecstasy use. I find this disturbing as we all know that teenagers would refer to this Wikipedia page with more faith than what their teachers and parents are telling them (maybe justly so). Still I really think this article should put more emphasis on the negative long term effects of ecstasy. So what if there is a Chinese study on ecstasy which contradicts another study which finds ecstasy harmful? What we need is convergence not to put a chronology of every pro-ecstasy article and every anti-ecstasy article.

Lets face it doing this drug once or twice will not ruin your life. Still this article comes off as too benevolent because I know people who have abused ecstasy and there are cognitive impairments. This may be just anecdotal but I think many people would agree long term ecstasy abuse will destroy your life as easily as long term alcohol abuse.

I am just concerned this article is written by ecstasy users for ecstasy users. It's a closed circuit and if anyone finds a study that shows the negative effects of ecstasy the editors will find another study which counters it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.108.31.35 (talk) 17:17, 16 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

How about you read the entire article, it is NOT being passed off as a benign drug. And I and other drug users (hopefully) know that isn't the truth. If you have problems with specific wording please do say so. C6541 (T↔C) 17:20, 16 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I also find parts of the article biased, putting ecstasy in what is probably a too positive light. As for specific suggestions for improvements, take a look at the 'effects' section. It is a long list of unsourced claims with positive rings to them. I would say that all these claims should be backed up by reliable sources as per Wiki rules, or be removed. Pubmed gives a heap of documentation, such as [[1]]. Even with such sources, the positive short-term effects are given undue weight. --EthicsGradient (talk) 14:40, 18 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

So ecstasy is perfectly okay to use? I find that this article is too benevolent to ecstasy. I think ecstasy users are trying to make this article pro-ecstasy use. For every study that finds anything negative about ecstasy the editors will find a Chinese study which counters it. This leads nowhere.

This article is created by ecstasy users for ecstasy users. I find this distrubing as teenagers may use this article to inform their decision to use the drug or not. I will keep editing this talk page until this discussion goes somewhere. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.71.136.35 (talk • contribs) 05:14, 17 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Your vague generalisations are not very helpful. Could you please identify the specific parts of the text you disagree with, and why? Nick Cooper (talk) 14:53, 17 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Not sure which sections your referring to but certainly the section heading "Beneficial effects" is problematic. Principally because it is not NPOV WP:NPOV but also because the reference it cites does not use the word "Beneficial" at all. I will change this to "Subjective effects" in line with the majority of MDMA-related literature on psychological and physiological efects of the drug.--Amaher (talk) 08:15, 27 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

because it causes brain damage in people. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.38.64.153 (talk) 18:26, 24 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I have a few problems with the neurotoxicity section. First and foremost, "A number of studies [84] have demonstrated lasting serotonergic changes occurring due to MDMA exposure". This quote is completely unsubstantiated. "A number of studies" must be backed up by more than one study. I'm changing that immediately because it is not factually supported. I will change it to indicate that only one study has shown this. Secondly, this study was carried out by Ricuarte, whose work has been marginalized recently. The main problem is internal variance in his data that showed (almost certainly mistakenly) people in the same group (both in the non-user and user sections) has up to 10 times more serottonin than one another. This is biologically absurd, and makes any findings highly suspect. Even ABC, a major news network typically very anti-drug, discredits Ricuarte's study in their report. I will not change that immediately, however, as there is evidence (however faulty) behind it. If you have legitimate points to keep that, please respond soon. Sas556 (talk) 05:27, 17 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]