Cannabis Ruderalis

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== Source for history section ==

Stashing this here. Has some new details about Clegg and corroborates some of the details of the Austin Chronicle article.
http://www.playboy.com/articles/ecstasy-was-legal-in-1984-and-it-was-glorious
::Has blurb on current usage. http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/article/36503623/danger-from-ecstasy-greater-than-ever-say-drug-experts [[User:Sizeofint|Sizeofint]] ([[User talk:Sizeofint|talk]]) 18:59, 8 November 2016 (UTC)
:::Additional source for history/spiritual uses to add if I can track down the original Guardian article. http://csp.org/practices/entheogens/docs/saunders-ecstasy_rel.html [[User:Sizeofint|Sizeofint]] ([[User talk:Sizeofint|talk]]) 20:29, 8 December 2016 (UTC)
::::{{cite journal|last1=Roger-Sánchez|first1=Concepción|last2=García-Pardo|first2=María P.|last3=Rodríguez-Arias|first3=Marta|last4=Miñarro|first4=Jose|last5=Aguilar|first5=María A.|title=Neurochemical substrates of the rewarding effects of MDMA|journal=Behavioural Pharmacology|date=April 2016|volume=27|pages=116–132|doi=10.1097/FBP.0000000000000210}} [[User:Sizeofint|Sizeofint]] ([[User talk:Sizeofint|talk]]) 08:35, 18 December 2016 (UTC)
:::::{{cite journal|last1=French|first1=Larry G.|title=The Sassafras Tree and Designer Drugs: From Herbal Tea to Ecstasy|journal=Journal of Chemical Education|date=June 1995|volume=72|issue=6|pages=484|doi=10.1021/ed072p484}} [[User:Sizeofint|Sizeofint]] ([[User talk:Sizeofint|talk]]) 02:48, 10 January 2017 (UTC)
::::::<ref>http://dash.harvard.edu/bitstream/handle/1/8889454/Lewis,_Donald_00.html?sequence=2</ref>
Content deleted from John Lawn page, mostly redundant but some may be integrated here
{{reflist talk|section}}
===Role in the Criminalisation of MDMA===
In January 1984, worried about increasing recreational use of [[MDMA]], the DEA prepared a document for scheduling MDMA as a [[Controlled_Substances_Act#Schedule_I_controlled_substances|Schedule I]] substance,<ref>http://dash.harvard.edu/bitstream/handle/1/8889454/Lewis,_Donald_00.html?sequence=2</ref> a classification for drugs seen as having a high potential for abuse and having no accepted medical use. Because MDMA was already in widespread use by psychiatrists, a group of psychiatrists and their lawyer filed a request for a hearing. The request was granted, although MDMA was scheduled on an emergency basis by the DEA before the hearings were heard anyway.<ref>Ecstasy : The Complete Guide : A Comprehensive Look at the Risks and Benefits of MDMA by Julie Holland</ref> On the basis of multiple witnesses testifying that there were medically accepted uses of MDMA in treatment, the administrative law judge in charge of the hearing, Francis L. Young recommended that MDMA be classified as Schedule III, a scheduling that many researchers, including [[Alexander Shulgin]] were willing to accept. However Lawn disagreed with the recommendation and ultimately MDMA was scheduled as Schedule I. The events were [[Removal of cannabis from Schedule I of the Controlled Substances Act|later echoed]] in 1988 when Lawn again overruled Justice Young who recommended for the reclassification of marijuana from Schedule I to Schedule III.


== Edit request 19 July 2023 ==
However, in 1987 the Harvard psychiatrist [[Lester Grinspoon|Dr. Lester Grinspoon]] sued the DEA, and the federal court sided with Grinspoon, calling Lawn's argument "strained" and "unpersuasive",<ref>http://www.cognitiveliberty.org/dll/mdma_scheduling_history.htm#_ftnref6</ref> and MDMA was unscheduled. However, less than a month later Lawn claimed that he had reconsidered the evidence and again classified MDMA as Schedule I. In his ruling Lawn claimed that evidence psychiatrists gave that they had administered MDMA to approximately 200 patients with positive effects should be dismissed as "merely anecdotal" as they were not published in medical journals.


"Endogenous" is used in the introduction. It's neither linked nor defined. It's a $5 word. A $0.50 word would be better. Failing that, it would be helpful if it were a link to something - Wiktionary or an appropriate Wikipedia page. Thanks! [[Special:Contributions/108.64.118.44|108.64.118.44]] ([[User talk:108.64.118.44|talk]]) 00:48, 20 July 2023 (UTC)
{{reflist talk|section}}
:{{done}} --[[User:WikiLinuz|<span style="font-family:Optima;color:#292928;">'''Wiki'''<span style="color:red;">'''''Linuz'''''</span></span>]] {[[User_talk:WikiLinuz|<span style="font-family:Optima;">talk</span>]]} 01:11, 20 July 2023 (UTC)


== The BP in a medium vacuum should not be listed ==
== Oddly phrased sentance. ==


The infobox currently lists the boiling point at 0.4 mmHg, which is a medium vacuum. It is not sourced, and it doesn't say whether this is the free base or what salt it is. This is nearly useless information and it isn't sourced, it should simply be removed. The melting points of the free base and any common salts, at atmospheric pressure, would be interesting data to add. Boiling point in a vacuum is silly. [[Special:Contributions/209.6.225.254|209.6.225.254]] ([[User talk:209.6.225.254|talk]]) 09:36, 24 November 2023 (UTC)
"There are numerous methods available in the literature to synthesize MDMA via different intermediates.[98][99][100][101]" seems this sentence is worded very poorly. It's redundant, essentially stating "There are many ways to make MDA" twice. I also don't think it needs the qualifier "in literature". I think a better sentence might be "There are numerous methods available to synthesize MDMA.[98][99][100][101]"


== Is MDMA a psychedelic or not? ==
--[[Special:Contributions/173.66.69.186|173.66.69.186]] ([[User talk:173.66.69.186|talk]]) 01:56, 26 August 2017 (UTC)
:I think the 'different intermediates' portion is to emphasize the different precursors (safrole, isosafrol, etc.). The "in literature" part can be cut. [[User:Sizeofint|Sizeofint]] ([[User talk:Sizeofint|talk]]) 08:15, 26 August 2017 (UTC)


The best source for this claim is that there may be 5HT2A agonism, which "supposedly contributes" to "mild psychedelic hallucinations" caused by "high doses" of MDMA. That's a lot of words to say that its status as a psychedelic is pretty flimsy.
== Provenience ==


The other sources don't support that it is one, either, just that it's commonly referred to as one. This is similar to how cocaine is called a "narcotic," a legal stipulative definition that's quite different from the scientific one.


I'm not arguing that MDMA isn't a psychedelic, but if these are the best sources we have I think it should be removed from the lead. [[Special:Contributions/2600:1017:B103:D814:CCC9:7381:FFDB:5A2D|2600:1017:B103:D814:CCC9:7381:FFDB:5A2D]] ([[User talk:2600:1017:B103:D814:CCC9:7381:FFDB:5A2D|talk]]) 17:51, 13 December 2023 (UTC)
I had this crazy idea... How come people don't tell the truth and save everyone of the troubles arising from lies. Like: Mdma is extracted from sea shells... plain and simple.
*see also cocaine from ivory


:MDMA is not in any way, shape or form, a ''classic psychedelic'', meaning that it cannot be directly compared to [[LSD]], [[psilocybin]], or even [[mescaline]], but it ''is'' somewhat closer to mescaline than many other things that people consider to have psychedelic properties, such as [[cannabis]], [[ketamine]], [[salvia divinorum]], and even [[muscimol]]. The lead says it has "minor psychedelic properties", but that doesn't mean that it ''is'' a psychedelic. Perhaps we just need some clarification in the lead that while it has ''minor psychedelic properties'', it is not technically a psychedelic. [[User:Thoric|Thoric]] ([[User talk:Thoric|talk]]) 18:35, 13 December 2023 (UTC)
[[User:Rgb.trouw|Rgb.trouw]] ([[User talk:Rgb.trouw|talk]]) 00:26, 8 September 2017 (UTC)


==US data in the lead==
== Bruxism Chewing Gum? ==
As the US is the largest EN speaking country in the world IMO this "In the United States, about 0.9 million people used ecstasy in 2010.<ref name=Drugs2014/>" belongs in the lead.


Should we add that some users chew gum in order to deal with grinding teeth? Since the article is semi-protected, I wanted to check before just adding it in (especially since finding a good source for this is trickier than I though). [[User:Niplav|Niplav]] ([[User talk:Niplav|talk]]) 13:57, 7 February 2024 (UTC)
The Persian version of the article should have the prevalence of usage in Iran the lead. [[User:Doc James|<span style="color:#0000f1">'''Doc James'''</span>]] ([[User talk:Doc James|talk]] · [[Special:Contributions/Doc James|contribs]] · [[Special:EmailUser/Doc James|email]]) 19:25, 22 September 2017 (UTC)
:I feel that this marginalizes the rest of the English speaking population by making Wikipedia seem US centric on articles that have a global scope. The 0.9 million number reflects a use level of ~0.3% which is in line with the global number we give. [[User:Sizeofint|Sizeofint]] ([[User talk:Sizeofint|talk]]) 23:21, 22 September 2017 (UTC)


== The role of Danny Leclère in the production of XTC as partydrug ==
{{reflist talk|section}}


I have a proposition to add some text regarding [[Danny Leclère]] who developed in the 1990's a formula to produce "pure XTC" as party drug and set up a worldwide illegal network to have the drugs distributed. It's because if him XTC became popular in nightlife. The formula of Leclère is still the most used in the manufacturing of (illegal) XTC. Valid/Trusted references can be found in the article about [[Danny Leclère]]. I think a short topic in the article of MDMA is advisable due to Leclère his role in production/distribution of illegal XTC. [[User:Ino mart|Ino mart]] ([[User talk:Ino mart|talk]]) 15:31, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
== Non-use in first paragraph ==


:is "pure XTC" MDMA? [[User:Bon courage|Bon courage]] ([[User talk:Bon courage|talk]]) 15:55, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
{{U|Doc James}}, could you explain why we should emphasize that MDMA is not used medically in the intro paragraph? There is nothing substantial in the preceding sentences that hints at medical applications - that information isn't provided until the fourth paragraph - so the abrupt statement that MDMA has no medical use seems out of place to me. At that point in the lead the reader has no context in which to understand the non-use statement. I think it makes more sense to state this after the reader has learned about the ongoing trials. [[User:Sizeofint|Sizeofint]] ([[User talk:Sizeofint|talk]]) 23:02, 22 September 2017 (UTC)
::According the documentary "Bad, Bad Belgium" the term "pure XTC" refers to the formula by Leclère: it is the first XTC-formula which only contains MDMA as drug. At that time, MDMA-drugs also contained other ingredients such as meta-Chlorophenylpiperazine and para-Methoxy-N-methylamphetamine.
::The lead often follows the same layout as the body of the text. We talk about non medical uses and than we mention that their are no medical uses. Flows very well IMO. [[User:Doc James|<span style="color:#0000f1">'''Doc James'''</span>]] ([[User talk:Doc James|talk]] · [[Special:Contributions/Doc James|contribs]] · [[Special:EmailUser/Doc James|email]]) 23:07, 22 September 2017 (UTC)
:::Hmm, I see. Anyone else have thoughts about this? [[User:Sizeofint|Sizeofint]] ([[User talk:Sizeofint|talk]]) 23:27, 22 September 2017 (UTC)
::::Some are promoting it for medical uses. Thus mentioning that these are not accepted upfront is IMO important. Plus this is similar to the layout of [[heroin]] and [[cocaine]] were we discuss both medical use and recreation use in the first paragraph. [[User:Doc James|<span style="color:#0000f1">'''Doc James'''</span>]] ([[User talk:Doc James|talk]] · [[Special:Contributions/Doc James|contribs]] · [[Special:EmailUser/Doc James|email]]) 23:31, 22 September 2017 (UTC)
:::::The difference between this and cocaine or heroin is that those drugs are actually approved for medical use, at least in some countries. If MDMA is approved I have no problem including this in the first paragraph. We could also compare this article to [[LSD]] or [[psilocybin]] which also have proposed medical uses but do not include a mention of non-use in their first paragraphs. [[User:Sizeofint|Sizeofint]] ([[User talk:Sizeofint|talk]]) 23:38, 22 September 2017 (UTC)
::Agree with {{U|Doc James}} that the the non-use statement fits well. The first sentence of the article introduces MDMA as a recreational drug. Whether it has accepted medical uses is therefore a very natural question that should be clearly answered in the lead as well. [[User:Rgr09|Rgr09]] ([[User talk:Rgr09|talk]]) 00:02, 23 September 2017 (UTC)
:::I don't really see that by virtue of being a recreational drug the question of medical use becomes immediately paramount (if that is what you are saying). We have hundreds of articles on recreational drugs with no accepted medical uses on en:wp. This may be the only in which we have decided to place this non-use in the lead paragraph. The non-use mention is warranted - in my view - because of this particular drug's history and current research efforts, not because the medical usage status of every psychoactive drug is of utmost importance. The connection between this drug's history and its current non-use status is why I suggest this statement be placed in the last paragraph. [[User:Sizeofint|Sizeofint]] ([[User talk:Sizeofint|talk]]) 01:45, 23 September 2017 (UTC)
::::THC has medical uses, so does cocaine, alcohol, and heroine. So in contracts to those MDMA does not. [[User:Doc James|<span style="color:#0000f1">'''Doc James'''</span>]] ([[User talk:Doc James|talk]] · [[Special:Contributions/Doc James|contribs]] · [[Special:EmailUser/Doc James|email]]) 03:22, 23 September 2017 (UTC)
:When we say "medical use", we're actually referring to "[[medical indication]]s", which is a slightly different concept. In the context of drugs, a medical indication for a drug is a form of medical use for treating a condition that has been deemed to have sufficient treatment efficacy and an adequate safety profile, particulary in relation to any existing alternative pharmacotherapies for the condition. For example, amphetamine is a very effective nasal decongestant and it was used several decades ago for treating nasal congestion under the brand name "Benzedrine". Nowadays, amphetamine isn't indicated for nasal congestion and I doubt that any doctor would prescribe it for that condition given that there are alternatives treatments available, like [[pseudoephedrine]], which have comparable efficacy and much fewer side effects (NB: the decongestant effect of amphetamine-type stimulants is mediated peripherally in the sinuses by noradrenaline).
:Since medical indications are listed in drug labels following regulatory approval, non-indicated uses are typically called "off-label uses". MDMA has no drug label since, internationally, it's not approved by any government for medical use. At the moment, MDMA is just an [[experimental drug]] which is currently undergoing clinical trials (i.e., an experiment) for the treatment of PTSD despite also being a globally banned substance. In other experimental drug articles, we don't say that the experimental uses of the drug are actual "medical uses", so we shouldn't do this with MDMA either until it receives regulatory approval for treating a condition (e.g., PTSD) and consequently acquires its first "medical indication". [[User:Seppi333|'''<font color="#32CD32">Seppi</font>''<font color="Black">333</font>''''']]&nbsp;([[User Talk:Seppi333|Insert&nbsp;'''2¢''']]) 01:50, 26 September 2017 (UTC)

Revision as of 23:15, 19 March 2024


Edit request 19 July 2023

"Endogenous" is used in the introduction. It's neither linked nor defined. It's a $5 word. A $0.50 word would be better. Failing that, it would be helpful if it were a link to something - Wiktionary or an appropriate Wikipedia page. Thanks! 108.64.118.44 (talk) 00:48, 20 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

 Done --WikiLinuz {talk} 01:11, 20 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The BP in a medium vacuum should not be listed

The infobox currently lists the boiling point at 0.4 mmHg, which is a medium vacuum. It is not sourced, and it doesn't say whether this is the free base or what salt it is. This is nearly useless information and it isn't sourced, it should simply be removed. The melting points of the free base and any common salts, at atmospheric pressure, would be interesting data to add. Boiling point in a vacuum is silly. 209.6.225.254 (talk) 09:36, 24 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Is MDMA a psychedelic or not?

The best source for this claim is that there may be 5HT2A agonism, which "supposedly contributes" to "mild psychedelic hallucinations" caused by "high doses" of MDMA. That's a lot of words to say that its status as a psychedelic is pretty flimsy.

The other sources don't support that it is one, either, just that it's commonly referred to as one. This is similar to how cocaine is called a "narcotic," a legal stipulative definition that's quite different from the scientific one.

I'm not arguing that MDMA isn't a psychedelic, but if these are the best sources we have I think it should be removed from the lead. 2600:1017:B103:D814:CCC9:7381:FFDB:5A2D (talk) 17:51, 13 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

MDMA is not in any way, shape or form, a classic psychedelic, meaning that it cannot be directly compared to LSD, psilocybin, or even mescaline, but it is somewhat closer to mescaline than many other things that people consider to have psychedelic properties, such as cannabis, ketamine, salvia divinorum, and even muscimol. The lead says it has "minor psychedelic properties", but that doesn't mean that it is a psychedelic. Perhaps we just need some clarification in the lead that while it has minor psychedelic properties, it is not technically a psychedelic. Thoric (talk) 18:35, 13 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Bruxism → Chewing Gum?

Should we add that some users chew gum in order to deal with grinding teeth? Since the article is semi-protected, I wanted to check before just adding it in (especially since finding a good source for this is trickier than I though). Niplav (talk) 13:57, 7 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The role of Danny Leclère in the production of XTC as partydrug

I have a proposition to add some text regarding Danny Leclère who developed in the 1990's a formula to produce "pure XTC" as party drug and set up a worldwide illegal network to have the drugs distributed. It's because if him XTC became popular in nightlife. The formula of Leclère is still the most used in the manufacturing of (illegal) XTC. Valid/Trusted references can be found in the article about Danny Leclère. I think a short topic in the article of MDMA is advisable due to Leclère his role in production/distribution of illegal XTC. Ino mart (talk) 15:31, 6 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

is "pure XTC" MDMA? Bon courage (talk) 15:55, 6 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
According the documentary "Bad, Bad Belgium" the term "pure XTC" refers to the formula by Leclère: it is the first XTC-formula which only contains MDMA as drug. At that time, MDMA-drugs also contained other ingredients such as meta-Chlorophenylpiperazine and para-Methoxy-N-methylamphetamine.

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