Cannabis Ruderalis

thcscience_admin
Browse history interactively
← Previous editNext edit →
Content deleted Content added
VisualWikitext
ShadowyCaballero (talk | contribs)
967 edits
Reverted 1 edit by Melissa jane carls (talk): Spam
Line 1: Line 1:
{{talkheaderlong}}
{{Skip to talk}}
{{DelistedGA}}
{{Talk header}}
{{DelistedGA|20:55, 26 May 2006|oldid=55312896}}
{{hallucinogen-project}}
{{WikiProject banner shell|collapsed=yes|class=B|vital=yes|1=
{{FAOL|Hebrew|he:אקסטזי}}
{{WikiProject Pharmacology|importance=high}}
{{WikiProject Neuroscience|importance=Mid}}
{{WikiProject Medicine|importance=Mid}}
{{WikiProject Psychoactive and Recreational Drugs}}
{{WikiProject Rave}}
{{WikiProject Chemicals|importance=mid}}
{{WikiProject Alternative medicine}}
{{WikiProject Autism|importance=Low}}
{{WikiProject Altered States of Consciousness|importance=High}}
}}
{{Reliable sources for medical articles}}
{{Copied
|from = Effects of MDMA on the human body
|from_oldid = 629799567
|to = MDMA
|to_diff = 630020170
|to_oldid = 630000831
|date = 17 October 2014
}}
{{annual readership}}
{{User:ClueBot III/ArchiveThis
| age=2160
| archiveprefix=Talk:MDMA/Archive
| numberstart=9
| maxarchsize=100000
| header={{Automatic archive navigator}}
| minkeepthreads=5
| format= %%i
| archivebox=yes
| box-advert=yes
}}


===[[Talk:Methylenedioxymethamphetamine/Archive01|Archive 1]]===
----


== Edit request 19 July 2023 ==


"Endogenous" is used in the introduction. It's neither linked nor defined. It's a $5 word. A $0.50 word would be better. Failing that, it would be helpful if it were a link to something - Wiktionary or an appropriate Wikipedia page. Thanks! [[Special:Contributions/108.64.118.44|108.64.118.44]] ([[User talk:108.64.118.44|talk]]) 00:48, 20 July 2023 (UTC)
== Request for archiving fulfilled ==
:{{done}} --[[User:WikiLinuz|<span style="font-family:Optima;color:#292928;">'''Wiki'''<span style="color:red;">'''''Linuz'''''</span></span>]] {[[User_talk:WikiLinuz|<span style="font-family:Optima;">talk</span>]]} 01:11, 20 July 2023 (UTC)
I really don't think that archiving request, nor the fulfilling of it, was very wise. __[[User:Meco|meco]] 10:58, 5 June 2006 (UTC)


== The BP in a medium vacuum should not be listed ==
== Streetname section ==


The infobox currently lists the boiling point at 0.4 mmHg, which is a medium vacuum. It is not sourced, and it doesn't say whether this is the free base or what salt it is. This is nearly useless information and it isn't sourced, it should simply be removed. The melting points of the free base and any common salts, at atmospheric pressure, would be interesting data to add. Boiling point in a vacuum is silly. [[Special:Contributions/209.6.225.254|209.6.225.254]] ([[User talk:209.6.225.254|talk]]) 09:36, 24 November 2023 (UTC)
The section on colloquial references is bloated and I have a hard time seeing the actual purpose of it in its current state. Anyone? __[[User:Meco|meco]] 20:54, 10 June 2006 (UTC)


== Is MDMA a psychedelic or not? ==
== Method of Production and Contaminated Pills ==


The best source for this claim is that there may be 5HT2A agonism, which "supposedly contributes" to "mild psychedelic hallucinations" caused by "high doses" of MDMA. That's a lot of words to say that its status as a psychedelic is pretty flimsy.
This sentence has been removed due to lack of citation :''Most blackmarket pills are made in basement labs with household chemicals [citation needed](often containing other products) and are thus dangerous because of their impure content.'' The information provided by the media, police and the Home Office (UK) suggests that MDMA supplied to Europe is mainly produced in laboratories in Israel and the Netherlands.


The other sources don't support that it is one, either, just that it's commonly referred to as one. This is similar to how cocaine is called a "narcotic," a legal stipulative definition that's quite different from the scientific one.
In the same section are other unverified statements especially about contaminents and additives, (e.g. cocaine and heroin). I have yet to find any test results showing these two particular contaminants. Cocaine is highly unlikely as it is vastly more expensive than MDMA and such a small amount ingested would have little effect. Similarly for heroin. PLEASE PROVIDE SOURCES. Or the offending parts will be removed. --[[User:Dumbo1|Dumbo1]] 17:28, 14 June 2006 (UTC)


I'm not arguing that MDMA isn't a psychedelic, but if these are the best sources we have I think it should be removed from the lead. [[Special:Contributions/2600:1017:B103:D814:CCC9:7381:FFDB:5A2D|2600:1017:B103:D814:CCC9:7381:FFDB:5A2D]] ([[User talk:2600:1017:B103:D814:CCC9:7381:FFDB:5A2D|talk]]) 17:51, 13 December 2023 (UTC)
You can confirm cocaine and heroin as substituents at:
http://www.ecstasydata.org


:MDMA is not in any way, shape or form, a ''classic psychedelic'', meaning that it cannot be directly compared to [[LSD]], [[psilocybin]], or even [[mescaline]], but it ''is'' somewhat closer to mescaline than many other things that people consider to have psychedelic properties, such as [[cannabis]], [[ketamine]], [[salvia divinorum]], and even [[muscimol]]. The lead says it has "minor psychedelic properties", but that doesn't mean that it ''is'' a psychedelic. Perhaps we just need some clarification in the lead that while it has ''minor psychedelic properties'', it is not technically a psychedelic. [[User:Thoric|Thoric]] ([[User talk:Thoric|talk]]) 18:35, 13 December 2023 (UTC)
Personally, I am concerned about the accuracy of the statement:


== Bruxism → Chewing Gum? ==
"Sometimes more dangerous chemicals such as PMA or methamphetamine alone or in combination with MDMA are added to ecstasy tablets."


Should we add that some users chew gum in order to deal with grinding teeth? Since the article is semi-protected, I wanted to check before just adding it in (especially since finding a good source for this is trickier than I though). [[User:Niplav|Niplav]] ([[User talk:Niplav|talk]]) 13:57, 7 February 2024 (UTC)
I am not aware of evidence that meth is more dangerous than MDMA. I think that PMA and Meth should be neutrally referrred to as 'other potentially toxic psychoactives'.


== The role of Danny Leclère in the production of XTC as partydrug ==
--[[User:Mattbagg|Mattbagg]] 06:03, 22 June 2006 (UTC)


I have a proposition to add some text regarding [[Danny Leclère]] who developed in the 1990's a formula to produce "pure XTC" as party drug and set up a worldwide illegal network to have the drugs distributed. It's because if him XTC became popular in nightlife. The formula of Leclère is still the most used in the manufacturing of (illegal) XTC. Valid/Trusted references can be found in the article about [[Danny Leclère]]. I think a short topic in the article of MDMA is advisable due to Leclère his role in production/distribution of illegal XTC. [[User:Ino mart|Ino mart]] ([[User talk:Ino mart|talk]]) 15:31, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
== History ==
I believe much of the alleged history in the article is inaccurate. For example, MDMA was used by Shulgin in the 70s not 60s and he didn't really bring it to public attention, just to the attention of some scientists and a therapist named Leo Zeff. I have made a first pass at editing this section.


:is "pure XTC" MDMA? [[User:Bon courage|Bon courage]] ([[User talk:Bon courage|talk]]) 15:55, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
--[[User:Mattbagg|Mattbagg]] 06:12, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
::According the documentary "Bad, Bad Belgium" the term "pure XTC" refers to the formula by Leclère: it is the first XTC-formula which only contains MDMA as drug. At that time, MDMA-drugs also contained other ingredients such as meta-Chlorophenylpiperazine and para-Methoxy-N-methylamphetamine.

== Edit removed from front page ==

"It must be noted that in the U.S., being in possession of "X" amount of ecstasy pills can lead to a conviction of manslaughter, due the risk the someone may die under heavy use of the drug.( Need legal citation/note ) "

:I think this spectacular claim [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Methylenedioxymethamphetamine&curid=10024&diff=61510241&oldid=61422631 submitted] by [[User:Sam, Happy Man]]can stay here until it can be verified. __[[User:Meco|meco]] 09:41, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

== Renaming discussion ==
=== Moving to [[Ecstasy (drug)]] ===

Our policies say that we should use the most common name... why is this article at [[Methylenedioxymethamphetamine]]? [[User:Bogdangiusca|bogdan]] 17:17, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

:I would suggest the best peg to hang this article on would be [[MDMA]]. __[[User:Meco|meco]] 20:57, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

@bogdan. There is a very good reason.<ref>I'm sorry, it was misleading. I have to make it clearer: ''"There is a very good reason '''not''' to merge both, MDMA and E."''</ref> MDMA is a precisely defined chemical substance, whereas ecstasy is not. It is a drug that often contains also other amphetamines and in some cases not a trace of MDMA, although sold as E.<ref>[http://www.justice.gov.il/NR/rdonlyres/BAE021B4-0F6B-4376-9396-BAE3DBF47B43/0/unodcdrugs_sep03.pdf UN report 2003] pages 13 & 102. -[[User:84.136.234.127|84.136.200.209]]</ref> Most often the producer is the only one who knows what is in it. But indeed, in this article one should sort out everything that belongs to the article ''Ecstasy''. --[[User:84.136.234.127|84.136.234.127]] 18:50, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

:I disagree. The article does not substantiate claims that dilution and specifically contamination is a prevalent phenomenon. Also, the article is about this "precisely defined chemical substance". The fact that it has various other aspects than the chemical / biochemical aspects are sidelines that can easily be dealt with as such within an article about MDMA. It should be noted that communities and authoritative sources such as Erowid, Lycaeum, and indeed Alexander Shulgin, when discussing various social / entheogenic / other aspects all use MDMA as primary reference however noting that other terms exist. __[[User:Meco|meco]] 08:49, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

Notes:<references/>


:I'm finding it a little confusing to read your comment since there are no aticles to merge. There is but this one. The question is merely whether it should reside under the name [[Methylenedioxymethamphetamine]], which it currently does &ndash; a name few people are going to recognize as being MDMA/Ecstasy when browsing a category directory for instance, or one of the two alternative names [[MDMA]] and [[Ecstasy]], both currently being redirect pages to [[Methylenedioxymethamphetamine]]. If we bother to consider what the other Wikipedias have chosen to name their corresponding article we find that 10 have chosen "Ecstasy", 5 have chosen "MDMA" and six I cannot determine due to foreign alphabets, however, judging from the length of the article name I think at most one of those could have chosen "Methylenedioxymethamphetamine". Another comparison shows that [[LSD]] is thte main article name whereas [[Lysergic acid diethylamide]] and [[LSD-25]] are redirects to that page. When the proper chemical name is as unwieldy as in the case of "Methylenedioxymethamphetamine" I think it's unreasonable to keep the article under its current name. __[[User:Meco|meco]] 13:06, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

=== Moving to ''MDMA'' ===
It has been suggested to move this article to [[MDMA]]. I find this a very good idea. --[[User:84.136.207.196|84.136.207.196]] 01:46, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

I second the motion. Ecstasy and MDMA are not the same thing. Although MDMA is commonly the principle ingredient in ecstasy, ecstasy frequently contains other agents (frequently other pyschoactive components, not just cutting agents) in a high enough proportion that they have separate street names. Pure MDMA is usually referred to as Molly, while Ecstasy is a combination of pyschoactive compounds with MDMA likely being the principle ingredient.
[[User:67.87.98.164|67.87.98.164]] 03:22, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

:First of all, this article's name is "Methylenedioxymethamphetamine", which is the full name of MDMA ('''M'''ethylene'''D'''ioxy'''M'''eth'''A'''mphetamine). This is the proper Wikipedia convention, and there is a redirect from MDMA to here. Secondly, Ecstasy and MDMA '''''are''''' the same thing. The name "ecstasy" was given to the substance MDMA. The fact that some people try to pass other things off as ecstasy is the same age old problem of being ripped off -- scammed. Molly is just another slang term for MDMA, and while it has recently come to refer to (mostly) unadulterated MDMA in the underground illicit drug trade, Wikipedia is not a slang or idiom guide. For approximately 20 years, the term "ecstasy" had referred to MDMA and nothing else. Only within the past ten years has "ecstasy" pills being commonly mixed with meth, dxm, heroin and sometimes experimental research chemicals become a growing problem. --[[User:Thoric|Thoric]] 14:16, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

:I'd agree with moving it either to [[MDMA]] or [[Ecstacy (drug)]]. Having it here is not useful. [[User:Morwen|Morwen]] - [[User_talk:Morwen|Talk]]

== Addiction and Tolerance ==

I quickly rewrote this section to reflect the ambiguity of the scientific and medical literature. It could probably use some smoothing. Some of the points may be controversial to some.
--[[User:Mattbagg|Mattbagg]] 15:12, 10 July 2006 (UTC)



== Moving unsourced information to talk page ==

This has been hanging atounf for way too long without any verification. Sections may be returned if they're documented:

:Pills sold illegally on the street do not always contain MDMA as the only active ingredient. In British Columbia, Canada, recent government tests showed that some of the pills tested contained methamphetamine in doses as high as 20 milligrams {{citation needed}}. Analogues of MDMA such as [[MDEA]], [[3,4-methylenedioxyamphetamine|MDA]] and [[MBDB]] are often found, and more rarely other psychoactive additives such as [[amphetamine]]s (''speed''), [[DXM]], [[ephedrine]], [[Pseudoephedrine]], [[PMA]], [[4-MTA]], [[caffeine]], [[ketamine]] (''Special K''), [[2C-B]], [[2C-T-7]] or other compounds may be present {{citation needed}}. In addition to MDMA ecstasy pills may contain [[cocaine]], [[heroin]], or [[mescaline]] {{citation needed}}; Mescaline is an especially unlikely contaminant, as a large amount is required for an effective dose {{citation needed}}. There have been a few cases where an extremely potent synthetic opiate, [[Fentanyl]], has been identified in pills {{citation needed}}, which could potentially be very dangerous if people took several of them thinking that they only contained MDMA {{citation needed}}.

:[[Aspirin]], [[paracetamol]] (acetaminophen), or even [[dog|canine]] [[heartworm]] tablets have had the letter E scratched into them and have been sold as ecstasy [http://www.ecstasy.ws/news-left.htm?aid=434], for enormous profit. While overdose from MDMA itself is rare, many more toxic substances are often sold as ecstasy {{citation needed}}, and overdose or other adverse reaction to adulterants is not uncommon {{citation needed}}.

__[[User:Meco|meco]] 23:03, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

:To clarify that this moving is according to Wikipedia policy, [[WP:V]] states "If you want to request a source for an unsourced statement, a good idea is to move it to the talk page. Alternatively, you may tag the sentence by adding the {{tl|fact}} template, or tag the article by adding {{tl|not verified}} or {{tl|unsourced}}." As this unverfied information has been in the article for some time it is my prerogative to move the text here pending verification of these numerous unsourced statements. And I might add what Jimmy Wales is quoted qith stating on this same subject (also at [[WP:V]]): ""I can NOT emphasize this enough. There seems to be a terrible bias among some editors that some sort of random speculative 'I heard it somewhere' pseudo information is to be tagged with a 'needs a cite' tag. Wrong. It should be removed, aggressively, unless it can be sourced." __[[User:Meco|meco]] 23:00, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

::On that basis, you could probably delete a large proportion of anything outside the top 100 articles on Wikipedia. I'm in the camp that believes that some information is better than none, and that the Wikification process will take place naturally over time. If we remove stuff, aggressively, it (i) annoys people and (ii) makes the Wikification process a lot less likely, because people tend to edit what's in front of their noses, rather than copying stuff between pages which takes longer. Just my view, but there's lots written about this topic elsewhere.

Most of all, though, the sections you have removed are objective, verifiable facts, and not POV. Links may be missing but they will surely be added over time. [[User:Punanimal|Punanimal]] 14:40, 12 July 2006 (UTC).
:And then they will be reintroduced into the article, one by one. __[[User:Meco|meco]] 14:21, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

==Gay Drug==
This drug is known in some circles as a gay drug (especially when taken by males). The increased emotion and desire to rub everything and oral fixation and connection to dance culture all make it gay. This article never addresses this issue. [[User:ShadowyCaballero|ShadowyCabal]] 15:55, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

:Reference? Never heard of that, FWIW. [[User:Morwen|Morwen]] - [[User_talk:Morwen|Talk]] 16:07, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

::I don't know. Sucking lollipops and really "understanding" everyone. And you get all sweaty and dancy. Fucking gay! Not to mention Jay Mohr in [[Go (film)]]. You know, these homos get together with their hot oil rub downs and whatnot. [[User:ShadowyCaballero|ShadowyCabal]] 16:58, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Revision as of 23:15, 19 March 2024


Edit request 19 July 2023

"Endogenous" is used in the introduction. It's neither linked nor defined. It's a $5 word. A $0.50 word would be better. Failing that, it would be helpful if it were a link to something - Wiktionary or an appropriate Wikipedia page. Thanks! 108.64.118.44 (talk) 00:48, 20 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

 Done --WikiLinuz {talk} 01:11, 20 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The BP in a medium vacuum should not be listed

The infobox currently lists the boiling point at 0.4 mmHg, which is a medium vacuum. It is not sourced, and it doesn't say whether this is the free base or what salt it is. This is nearly useless information and it isn't sourced, it should simply be removed. The melting points of the free base and any common salts, at atmospheric pressure, would be interesting data to add. Boiling point in a vacuum is silly. 209.6.225.254 (talk) 09:36, 24 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Is MDMA a psychedelic or not?

The best source for this claim is that there may be 5HT2A agonism, which "supposedly contributes" to "mild psychedelic hallucinations" caused by "high doses" of MDMA. That's a lot of words to say that its status as a psychedelic is pretty flimsy.

The other sources don't support that it is one, either, just that it's commonly referred to as one. This is similar to how cocaine is called a "narcotic," a legal stipulative definition that's quite different from the scientific one.

I'm not arguing that MDMA isn't a psychedelic, but if these are the best sources we have I think it should be removed from the lead. 2600:1017:B103:D814:CCC9:7381:FFDB:5A2D (talk) 17:51, 13 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

MDMA is not in any way, shape or form, a classic psychedelic, meaning that it cannot be directly compared to LSD, psilocybin, or even mescaline, but it is somewhat closer to mescaline than many other things that people consider to have psychedelic properties, such as cannabis, ketamine, salvia divinorum, and even muscimol. The lead says it has "minor psychedelic properties", but that doesn't mean that it is a psychedelic. Perhaps we just need some clarification in the lead that while it has minor psychedelic properties, it is not technically a psychedelic. Thoric (talk) 18:35, 13 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Bruxism → Chewing Gum?

Should we add that some users chew gum in order to deal with grinding teeth? Since the article is semi-protected, I wanted to check before just adding it in (especially since finding a good source for this is trickier than I though). Niplav (talk) 13:57, 7 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The role of Danny Leclère in the production of XTC as partydrug

I have a proposition to add some text regarding Danny Leclère who developed in the 1990's a formula to produce "pure XTC" as party drug and set up a worldwide illegal network to have the drugs distributed. It's because if him XTC became popular in nightlife. The formula of Leclère is still the most used in the manufacturing of (illegal) XTC. Valid/Trusted references can be found in the article about Danny Leclère. I think a short topic in the article of MDMA is advisable due to Leclère his role in production/distribution of illegal XTC. Ino mart (talk) 15:31, 6 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

is "pure XTC" MDMA? Bon courage (talk) 15:55, 6 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
According the documentary "Bad, Bad Belgium" the term "pure XTC" refers to the formula by Leclère: it is the first XTC-formula which only contains MDMA as drug. At that time, MDMA-drugs also contained other ingredients such as meta-Chlorophenylpiperazine and para-Methoxy-N-methylamphetamine.
source: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:MDMA&diff=1214599159&oldid=68218958

Leave a Reply