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New Edit Request

Please update Kaala movie collections , Refer the below links

unsigned comment added by 180.151.49.206 (talk) 09:00, 7 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: What sort of statement are you asking us to make about Kaala's gross? Also, you're not asking for the pre-release income to be included in box office receipts, are you? Because box office receipts = money made at the box office, not money made pre-selling satellite rights Cyphoidbomb (talk) 14:52, 8 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

yes please update only box office records,

https://www.indiatoday.in/movies/regional-cinema/story/rajinikanth-kaala-box-office-collection-day-5-becomes-second-highest-grosser-of-2018-1258030-2018-06-12 http://indianexpress.com/article/entertainment/tamil/kaala-box-office-rajinikanth-film-crosses-rs-100-crore-mark-5214112/ https://www.firstpost.com/entertainment/kaala-opening-weekend-box-office-collection-rajinikanth-starrer-garners-rs-114-cr-worldwide-in-four-days-4506797.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by 180.151.49.206 (talk • contribs) 08:16, 12 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: You've added an additional 3 references, which say different things. Even if we went by the highest gross of 114 crore worldwide, that wouldn't put Kaala onto the list in this article. It would have to gross 149 crore in ticket sales to move Theri off the list. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 17:37, 12 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]


Kaala latest collection is 184.35 crores please update http://bollywoodbreakfast.com/kaala-13th-day-box-office-collection-worldwide/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 180.151.49.206 (talk) 09:32, 20 June 2018‎ (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: The page's protection level has changed since this request was placed. You should now be able to edit the page yourself. If you still seem to be unable to, please reopen the request with further details. — JJMC89 (T·C) 18:02, 23 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Aamir Khan and Salman Khan Should Be Mentioned in the Introduction section of Global gross figures

In the List of 25 Movies Salman Khan and Aamir Khan have the most Movies. Salman Khan has 6 and Aamir Khan Has 5 Of which 4 Aamir Khan Movies are in the top 10 and 3 Salman Khan Movies are in the Top. The Two Actors definitely deserve a special mention in the introductions of the Section Global gross figures. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Birsanagarwala (talk • contribs) 09:32, 22 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done The above user has been traveling article-to-article adding bolded text calling Aamir Khan the "World's Biggest Superstar".[1] There's obviously a promotional agenda here. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 17:23, 23 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Baahubali is not bilingual movie

Baahubali is a pure telugu movie which is dubbed into other languages. Please don't include the movie in Tamil language category. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rjchandra (talk • contribs) 15:58, 22 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Rjchandra: According to our mainstream sources,[2][3] the film was shot simultaneously in Telugu and Tamil. Any change to the contrary would have to be supported with solid references, not your personal assertions. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 17:21, 23 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Highest-grossing Opening Weekends

I suggest a new section for the Opening Weekend Gross. I have made up a list of 20 films so far. For Hindi films which had a three day opening weekend, I have taken the data from Box Office India[4] and the rest are from individual reports.


Rank Film Opening Weekend Gross Language Year Source(s)
1 Baahubali 2: The Conclusion ₹540 crore (US$65 million) Telugu
Tamil 		2017 [1]
2 Sultan ₹328 crore (US$39 million) Hindi 2016 [2]
3 Kabali ₹211.25 crore (US$25 million) Tamil 2016 [3]
4 Sanju ₹201.99 crore (US$24 million) Hindi 2018 [4]
5 Dangal ₹198.64 crore (US$24 million) Hindi 2016 [5]
6 Padmaavat ₹196.84 crore (US$24 million) Hindi 2018 [6]
7 Dhoom 3 ₹194.3 crore (US$23 million) Hindi 2013 [5]
8 Tiger Zinda Hai ₹189 crore (US$23 million) Hindi 2017 [5]
9 Bajrangi Bhaijaan ₹187.24 crore (US$22 million) Hindi 2015 [5]
10 Prem Ratan Dhan Payo ₹185.15 crore (US$22 million) Hindi 2015 [5]
11 Race 3 ₹181.32 crore (US$22 million) Hindi 2018 [2]
12 PK ₹175.78 crore (US$21 million) Hindi 2014 [5]
13 Happy New Year ₹174.57 crore (US$21 million) Hindi 2014 [5]
14 Baahubali: The Beginning ₹169 crore (US$20 million) Telugu
Tamil 		2015 [7]
15 Chennai Express ₹159.54 crore (US$19 million) Hindi 2013 [5]
16 Dilwale ₹144.83 crore (US$17 million) Hindi 2015 [5]
17 Mersal ₹140 crore (US$17 million) Tamil 2017 [8]
18 I ₹135 crore (US$16 million) Tamil 2015 [9]
19 Golmaal Again ₹134.48 crore (US$16 million) Hindi 2017 [5]
20 Raees ₹128.14 crore (US$15 million) Hindi 2017 [5] 
~Rajan51(talk) 14:53, 25 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ "Baahubali 2 box office collection day 3: With Rs 540 crore worldwide collection, the age of SS Rajamouli is here". The Indian Express. 1 May 2017. Archived from the original on 30 April 2017. Retrieved 1 May 2017. {{cite web}}: Unknown parameter |deadurl= ignored (|url-status= suggested) (help)
  2. ^ a b "Race 3 total worldwide box office collection: Salman Khan's film grosses Rs 180 crore in 3 days". IBTimes. 19 June 2018.
  3. ^ "'Kabali' 3rd day box office collection: Rajinikanth's flick grosses over Rs. 200 crore worldwide in first weekend". IBTimes. 25 July 2016.
  4. ^ "Sanju box office collection: Ranbir Kapoor film crosses Rs 200 crore gross mark worldwide in 3 days". IBTime. 3 July 2018. Retrieved 6 July 2018.
  5. ^ a b c d e f g h i j k "TOP WORLDWIDE FIRST WEEKEND ALL TIME". Box Office India. 22 December 2014.
  6. ^ "Box Office: Worldwide collections and day wise break up of Padmaavat". Bollywood Hungama. Retrieved 28 January 2018.
  7. ^ "'Baahubali' (Bahubali) 1st Weekend Collection at Box Office: Business of Rajamouli's Film Crosses ₹165 Cr in 3 Days". IBTimes. 4 May 2017.
  8. ^ "Mersal 5-day box office collection: Vijay's film racing towards Rs 150 crore mark". IBTimes. 23 October 2017.
  9. ^ "'I' ('Ai') 5-Day Box Office Collections (Opening Weekend): Vikram-Amy Starrer Grosses over ₹135 crore Worldwide". IBTimes. 19 January 2015.

Malayalam film

Great father entered in 50 crore Nabhan nbn (talk) 05:14, 1 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Director and Studio names

Do the names of the directors and studios have to be mentioned in the lists. If yes, why? ~Rajan51(talk) 7:32, 4 July 2018 (UTC)

There's no mandate, but there's also no prohibition. The tables have been formatted this way for several years. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 15:14, 5 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
The thing is, those two columns seem to occupy a lot of space and can be removed if they are not very important. I know that they have been there for a long time, but that alone cannot justify their presence there. ~Rajan51(talk) 16:31, 5 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
The page costs the same whether the director and studio are there or not, so "occupy a lot of space" can't alone justify their removal. It's not like we're going to use that freed-up space for ads or something. I would imagine someone might find it interesting to see which studios/directors appear the most in the various tables, but I don't presently have a strong opinion. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 01:58, 6 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Since it occupies more space, removing them will make it easier for Mobile phone viewers to view the entire table. ~Rajan51(talk) 3:57, 6 July 2018 (UTC)
Do we normally remove content to make it easier for mobile phone viewers? That's not actually something I've ever heard of. It would seem that if content is useful for all, it's also useful for mobile viewers. Where else would they get this information? They'd have to search each article independently and take notes? Doesn't that actually seem like more of a hassle? Again, I don't presently have a strong opinion, but I feel it's my obligation to present counter-arguments to "it's taking up space". Cyphoidbomb (talk) 05:40, 6 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Personally, it wouldn't bother me much whether the director/studio names were kept or removed. I'm fine either way. Maestro2016 (talk) 22:27, 5 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Dangal's China Gross

The given source for Dangal's China gross does not seem to work. So, a new source is needed. Maybe this can be used. ~Rajan51(talk) 5:36, 7 July 2018 (UTC)

Or a better way would be to get the Chinese gross in CN¥ and convert it to INR. As per this report from EntGroup, Dangal(released as Wrestle! Father) grossed CN¥1.29912 billion in China(equivalent to ₹1,218.46 crore[5]) ~Rajan51(talk) 7:29, 7 July 2018 (UTC)

Generally speaking, I really question Forbes contributor Rob Cain's claims. It's totally unclear what makes this guy some kind of savant for Indian film financials, especially when he's the only guy making the more grandiose claims that the rest of the industry doesn't seem comfortable to report when the chips are down. My skepticism is heightened when Forbes itself bears a disclaimer "Opinions expressed by Forbes Contributors are their own", which is something other experienced editors have noted. Is he just a random blogger?
Kabali (July 2016 release) is one of my favorite examples of financial hype gone awry for a film. Producers (and shitty reporting from Indian Express. Financial Express, and the rest of Express Group) were claiming that the film had a box office gross of ₹600+ crore, even though it was well documented that the film had pre-release transactions of satellite and music rights sales totaling about 200 crore, which would have brought the box office figures down to (at most) ₹400 crore. Genuine skepticism from Firstpost and IBT lowered these figures to about 300 crore early on. In 2017, long after the rush died down, IBT put their estimated gross total for Kabali at about ₹286 crore, yet Forbes Contributor Rob Cain, whose opinions are his own, pushed an almost 500 crore figure as his authoritative take on the mess of financial information in May 2017, which we kind of have to report to this day, since as a group we haven't yet dug into whether or not we think this guy knows what he's talking about. I think we should start questioning him. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 08:32, 7 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not sure whether his claims are correct. But one thing that concerns me is how the worldwide box office grosses of Dangal and Baahubali 2 have been calculated here. By using this method, we are increasing the error rates of the grosses. Besides, Danagl's grosses in India, Taiwan, Hong Kong and "Other Territories" have been obtained from Rob Cain's article. There was a report on IBT which stated that Dangal's global gross was ₹1979.12 crore by June 2018. ~Rajan51(talk) 9:24, 7 July 2018 (UTC)
Exactly. I recall the time when this guy reported that Baahubali 2 crossed ₹1725 crore while 3 months later International Business Times reported a lower figure (remember, this is after the film had a 3 month long run). Great disparity of figures. He was also the first to claim Dangal crossed ₹2000 crore. The rest of the Indian media took it up, and then the producers arrived with a clarification stating this was not the case. Interestingly, the person has a history of Twitter fights with Box Office India (don't ask) and this scathing article almost seems to be pointing towards him. 2.51.22.253 (talk) 17:46, 7 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Ha, interesting. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 20:39, 7 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
That's odd. Not sure what happened to the link, but EntGroup was reporting $216 million in China last I checked. Now that the link is gone down though, you could take the CNY gross and convert it according to 2017 exchange rates. Using the average 2017 OFX exchange rates of 6.7568 CNY/USD and 65.11 INR/USD, ¥1299.12 million converts to $192.3 million and ₹1,252 crore. Oddly, OFX was previously reporting the Chinese exchange rate as about 6.4 CNY/USD average for 2017, which resulted in a converted gross of over 1300 crore, but with the updated exchange rate of 6.7568 CNY/USD, the converted gross now comes to 1252 crore. As for worldwide gross, as mentioned in the article, most sources give the total as over 2000 crore, with some going up to 2100-2200 crore (including IB Times which reported 2100 crore in February 2018). Either way, doing the math, the worldwide total comes up to around 2000-2100 crore. Maestro2016 (talk) 21:01, 7 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
But converting the gross to INR directly from CNY would give a lower error rate than converting it to USD from CNY and then converting it to INR from USD. So I suggest direct conversion.
Besides that report from IBT in February looks like they have taken all the values from Wikipedia. ~Rajan51(talk) 2:50, 8 July 2018 (UTC)
And also, as per the same report from EntGroup, Secret Superstar grossed CN¥746.76 million in China, which is roughly equivalent to ₹750 crore.[6]. ~Rajan51(talk) 4:41, 8 July 2018 (UTC)
OFX doesn't have a direct exchange rate from CNY to INR. Converting CNY-USD then USD-INR is pretty much the same thing as converting CNY-INR. Also, the exchange site you're using seems to only give daily exchange rates, rather than monthly or annual averages (which is what OFX does), so I think OFX is a better source to use. As for Secret Superstar, we already have a direct USD figure from EntGroup, so a CNY conversion isn't necessary in this case. Maestro2016 (talk) 11:18, 8 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
OFX doesn't have to be our only source for yearly exchange rates. As per this source, the average exchange rate for CNY-INR was ₹9.638 per CN¥ for 2017. In this case, that gives ₹1,252.09 crore which is nearly close to the value you got from double conversion, but direct conversion is still a more reliable method for converting gross to INR. Besides, I don't trust the values given by EntGroup in USD. For example, the gross that they had given for Dangal was $216 million(₹1,400 crore), which is higher than what was given by many other sources[7] [8][9][10][11] and the one you obtained from CNY. And if you try converting Secret Superstar's CN¥746.76 million in China using the average exchange rate for the first three months of 2018, you'll get ₹756.08 crore.[12] ~Rajan51(talk) 12:44, 8 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
The thing is that the currency exchange rate seems to change. A few months ago, the CNY-USD average for 2017 was 6.4 CNY/USD, which resulted in 1300-something crore. But in the last few months, the CNY-USD average for 2017 suddenly changed to over 6.7 CNY/USD, which now lowers Dangal's China gross down to 1252 crore. It seems the issues surrounding China gross figures is that the currency exchange rates are not consistent. In Superstar's case, we could give an average gross between EntGroup's $124M conversion (810cr) and the manual conversion you gave above (¥746.76M to 756.08cr). Maestro2016 (talk) 14:07, 8 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
If you take up Entgroup's individual reports of Secret Superstar(CNY746.76 million and US$124.4 million) and Dangal(CNY1,299.12 million and US$216 million), you fill find that in both cases the conversion rate that they have used is very close to 6 CNY/USD which is a rate that hasn't been seen since 2014. So I think that they're using the wrong conversion rate. This is not limited to Indian films alone, I have even seen Entgroup give such singificantly inaccurate conversions for Hollywood films. So I think it will be better to obtain the gross in INR from their CNY figures. ~Rajan51(talk) 16:20, 8 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I've noticed that EntGroup's weekly charts generally give a higher gross than the daily charts (Secret Superstar was $117 million on its last daily chart appearance, yet $124 million on its last weekly chart appearance). From what I understand about the China box office, there are two different gross figures, with TP (ticketing prices) and without TP. So the higher gross figures given on EntGroup's weekly charts may be with TP and the lower figures on their daily charts may be without TP. It seems with-TP and without-TP figures appear to be China's equivalent of India's gross and nett figures. Maestro2016 (talk) 21:44, 8 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
To avoid this problem, we can convert directly from CNY to INR, which will also give a more accurate result. ~Rajan51(talk) 2:42 9 July 2018 (UTC)
The CNY amount given is usually the without-TP amount, which is nearly the same as the without-TP amount in USD that EntGroup gives on its daily charts (i.e. $196M for Dangal and $117M for Superstar). If EntGroup gives the USD amount, then the CNY amount isn't necessary. The secondary currency for this article is USD, so USD figures should be prioritized over CNY figures. For Dangal, the article currently uses its without-TP amount (since the link for its with-TP amount is now broken). In Superstar's case, the issue is whether to use its higher with-TP amount ($124M) or lower without-TP amount ($117M). Maestro2016 (talk) 08:19, 9 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
But how do we know that there are two different gross figures and if the CNY gross is the lower one? I think I'll be able to understand better if you cite a reliable source, which has some details about this. Besides, as per this report from Entgroup, Secret Superstar's total gross is $106 million, and it is the same week as the other report being currently used. The box office gross in USD for all films seems to have decreased. They might have switched to proper exchange rates. ~Rajan51(talk) 8:48 9 July 2018 (UTC)
A few possible reasons for why EntGroup has recently lowered the weekly gross for older films: The exchange rate for the past has changed and they have updated to reflect this (like I mentioned earlier about how the CNY/USD average for 2017 recently changed from 6.4 to 6.7), are applying the current exchange rate instead of an older exchange rate (which wouldn't be correct), or changed the weekly charts to show with-TP gross instead of without-TP gross (which I can't confirm). Either way, I think the best thing to do would to simply give a range of values and then give an average figure. Maestro2016 (talk) 09:20, 9 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Can you give a reference that explains this with and without-TP gross? That would make it easier to understand what it is exactly and why it is done. ~Rajan51(talk) 10:21, 9 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I can't find a reliable source for it at the moment, so can't confirm if that's the reason. Either way, after thinking about it, it might be best to go with the $118M figure given on EntGroup's daily charts, which is nearly the same as what you'd get from converting the CNY figure. Maestro2016 (talk) 12:35, 9 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Ok, converting it using the exchange rate at the time of release would give a more accurate result than using the 2017 rate. And it would be better to give the gross in CNY in the note for both Dangal and Secret Superstar. ~Rajan51(talk) 1:07, 10 July 2018 (UTC)
Not sure if fxtop is a reliable/notable source. It would be better to stick with OFX for currency conversions. Also, it would be better to keep the notes short and simple, so it's not necessary to mention any currencies other than INR or USD. Maestro2016 (talk) 11:05, 10 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
But converting it at the 2017 rate would not give accurate result as Secret Superstar released in China only in 2018. Besides RBI would be a more reliable source for INR exchange rates than OFX or CIA. And what about EntGroup's own weekly report that the film had grossed $106.7 million in China? ~Rajan51(talk) 12:14, 10 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Actually, I think it would be best to use Wikipedia's own Template:To USD (which uses World Bank data). And as we've established above, the figures in EntGroup's English weekly charts are inconsistent and fluctuating (in Superstar's case, between $106M and $124M), whereas their English daily charts are fairly consistent and mostly match their CNY figures. Maestro2016 (talk) 17:15, 10 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Ok, I think we can use Template:To USD since it relies on World Bank data. So then we would have to update the list using this. And we would have to update Superstar's gross with the 2018 exchange rate later. Besides, if EntGroup's weekly figures are inconsistent, then we would have to use the daily figures even for Bajrangi Bhaijaan and Hindi Medium too. Moreover, we won't know the final box office figures in China as the films would be running even after they leave the top 10. So we can get figures from Box Office Mojo. ~Rajan51(talk) 3:43, 11 July 2018 (UTC)
I've now updated Bhaijaan and Medium. Also, EntGroup is more reliable for Chinese box office than Mojo. Maestro2016 (talk) 16:55, 11 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
But even after the films go out of the top 10 on EntGroup, the films will gross a few million dollars. So what is given by EntGroup is not the final gross figure. So I think Box Office MOJO might be useful. Or we can take the gross from the final figure in CNY if it is available. ~Rajan51(talk) 17:18, 11 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Fair enough. I've updated Bhaijaan and Medium with Mojo, which shows an increase for both films. However, I've left Dangal and Superstar with EntGroup, since Mojo doesn't show an increase for these films. Maestro2016 (talk) 13:05, 12 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
As per the current daily report for 18 February 2018 from EntGroup, Superstar's gross is $112.79 million. I think it would have been updated when EntGroup fixed exchange rates. And the report shows that it grossed $0.04 million on that day. So, it could not have crossed Mojo's estimate of $117.7 million at that rate. So, what do we use now? ~Rajan51(talk) 16:18, 12 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Mojo's number is virtually identical to what EntGroup reported back in 18 February 2018, so it doesn't really make a difference either way. We could reference both Mojo and EntGroup in this case. Maestro2016 (talk) 18:35, 12 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I've updated Superstar's gross using just Mojo as the figure given by EntGroup is not final. ~Rajan51(talk) 2:10, 13 July 2018 (UTC)

Valid Reference?

Hi there, I was wondering if Best of the Year is reliable for box office numbers. For example, for Kannada films, it cites Raajakumara for grossing 75 cr, and Mr and Mrs Ramachari at 52 cr., and Aptharakshaka at 40 cr. This would obviously change some of the Kannada films listed currently, and looking at their "About us" section, they seem legitimate. However, I wanted some confirmation on whether or not they can be a valid resource. Thanks. Shrev64 (talk) 06:10, 10 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Shrev64: Who are they, and what about them looks "legitimate", apart from their claim that they are "a leading Bollywood News portal"? That's pretty much what all cookie-cutter news portals/blogs claim. We only use sources that have established reputations for fact-checking and accuracy. If you've never heard of them, and I've never heard of them, and none of our other regular editors have heard of them, then we probably shouldn't use them. Please see WP:ICTF#Guidelines on sources for a general list of sites that are, and are not, generally considered reliable in the context of Indian entertainment articles. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 06:51, 10 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Ok thank you, I couldn't find that link earlier so I'm glad you provided it to me. Have a nice day. Shrev64 (talk) 08:19, 10 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Discrepancies in crore:dollar ratios

Per VRTS ticket # 2018071310003748, the dollars to crore ratio is not consistent throughout the films, causing some films with higher sales in crore to show lower sales in dollars, etc. Can someone take a look at normalizing the information presented? - TheDaveRoss (talk) 11:52, 13 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, you're right, this problem is because of the changing USD - INR exchange rates. You might want to look into previous discussion on this here. ~Rajan51(talk) 13:15, 13 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia used as source

Hey guys, I have noticed that some sources generally considered reliable might obtain data from wikipedia. I'm not 100% sure, but this is what makes me think it might be possible.

  • On 15 February 2018, IBTimes published an article which is currently used as reference for PK's worldwide gross. The article states that Dangal, Secret Superstar, PK and Tiger Zinda Hai had collected Rs. 2,122, Rs. 918, Rs.854 and Rs.560 crore respectively. These figures are exactly identical to what this list contained on that day. Normally I have observed that different sources give box office estimates which are approximately equal, but rarely match perfectly. In this case the final figures for Dangal, PK and Secret Superstar were calculated by Wikipedian editors from different sources(other than IBT) are are likely to be more inaccurate, and with the article using the same figures, there could be a possibility that the figures could have been taken from Wikipedia.
Moreover, the calculation of worldwide gross for PK at that time was interesting. The domestic gross of 489 crore was obtained from a page that also said its overseas and worldwide grosses were 303 and 792 crore respectively. And neither of the two sources used are considered reliable as per WP:ICTFSOURCES. The overseas gross of US$53.4 million was obtained from an earlier report from IBT and converted at the exchange rate of 2016(rather than 2014 or 2015) and the figure obtained in INR(365 crore) was also contradictory to the figure of 303 crore by the source that was used for domestic gross. The overseas grosses for other films too were converted at different exchange rates because of the possibility that IBT could have obtained the USD figures from INR at different exchange rates, as explained here(I believe it would be better to find another source). The problem was that the calculated gross was higher than the grosses given by other sources[13][14][15] which were below 800 crore. I suggest we stick to those sources which are reliable and contain total worldwide gross.
  • Another instance, which made me think that Wikipedia might be used as a source was Rob Cain's article on Forbes which uses the same figure as used on Wikipedia on that day.

I don't know how we can tackle this problem of Wikipedia being used as a source but I hope you guys can think of something. ~Rajan51(talk) 11:34, 16 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Rajan51: This is quite possible, actually. I know of at least two, somewhat minor incidents when this happened. Note this 2 February 2018 edit. A recurring vandal added his name, Komail Shayan, to the list of musicians involved. This was later picked up by Firstpost on 14 February 2018. There was another example where this plot summary existed for Raees on 3 February 2016, but was republished by Hindustan Times (and a few other sources) verbatim without attribution. Anyway, it would not surprise me in the least if this was widespread--it takes a lot of detective work to suss out, though. Shameful, lazy journalism. This is why I encourage all editors of Indian film articles to be hugely circumspect when dealing with financial figures, as the margin for error is massive, so getting emotionally attached to financial figures is a fool's errand. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 15:39, 16 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
@Cyphoidbomb, As to financial figures, with no official Box Office status available especially for south Indian movies, I couldn't agree with you more. Audit Guy (talk) 02:59, 17 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I want to be clear that I'm not suggesting we toss out all financial figures, especially for South Indian movies, just that we don't get insane about all of the reported figures, and as a greater goal, that we don't start treating all reported figures as gospel and start creating new content that doesn't agree with what any of the other individual sources say. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 05:14, 17 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Malayalam Movie The Great Father

The Great Father has collected 50 cr and you didn't listed it. The source is from inuth.com. It is a subset of Indian Express . https://www.inuth.com/entertainment/malayalam-movies/kerala-box-office-mammootty-the-great-father-emerges-as-the-actors-first-rs-50-cr-blockbuster/ `Mollywood.lover (talk) 03:25, 19 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Mollywood.lover: If I remember correctly, we didn't list it, because the source of the 50 crore claim for The Great Father was the producers. Inuth doesn't say that, but multiple other sources did, and we can't trust what the producers say, because the producers, and especially their promotional departments, are generally lying about their financial accomplishments to attract more viewers. Also, if you're a fan of Indian Express, you should be aware of the crappy job they did reporting Kabali's box office figures, factoring in pre-release income to report super-high numbers, when nobody else ever does that. They cannot be 100% trusted, nor can their "beta" site. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 04:58, 19 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Then can i show the pulimurugan collection sources also showing the collection said by producers Mollywood.lover (talk) 10:00, 19 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

If you have a problem with any content, you are more than welcome to challenge it by bringing your arguments and proper references. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 15:52, 20 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Cyphoidbomb can you show any other sources for aadhi. For aadhi you use only one source not only for it for many movies only one source. For The Great Father you need more sources what is the logic in it ???? Mollywood.lover (talk) 05:28, 23 July 2018 (UTC) @Cyphoidbomb Brother here is another reliable source that showing The Great Father has collected 50 cr . The News Minute is a reliable source. Please do the necessary actions as fast as possible[reply] 

https://www.thenewsminute.com/article/amala-paul-make-bollywood-debut-arjun-rampal-film-85252 Mollywood.lover (talk) 09:42, 23 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Ramaleela Malayalam movie

Ramaleela has collected near to 80 cr. The source is catch news which the wikipedia used for many movies sources . http://www.catchnews.com/regional-cinema/dileep-s-ramaleela-unseats-mohanlal-blockbuster-drishyam-to-become-the-all-time-second-highest-malayalam-grosser-93444.html Mollywood.lover (talk) 03:32, 19 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Mollywood.lover: Are there any other reliable sources that claim this amount was grossed, or are we supposed to go with the source that reports the highest figures? Because I'm sure you know that Indian film financial figures are largely estimates that fluctuate depending on who's reporting them, what their agenda is, who's paying them, and a variety of other factors. Should we always go with the highest-reported values, or just in this scenario? Cyphoidbomb (talk) 05:05, 19 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Source https://www.facebook.com/arungopy.gopy/posts/1790410754342362 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2405:204:D284:9C5E:AD50:ED02:991B:90BA (talk) 06:53, 19 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Social media posts are not considered reliable as per WP:RSSELF. ~Rajan51(talk) 07:59, 19 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

if you cant beleive this collection how about pulimurugan. The same producer is for Ramaleela also. Then pulimurugan is also fluctuating figure. Sreedhar Pillai The famous Indian trade analyst says that pulimurugan has just 100 cr near Mollywood.lover (talk) 09:41, 19 July 2018 (UTC) Like that can you provide other links for Aadhi movie also relating to 50cr Mollywood.lover (talk) 06:31, 20 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The reliability of the box office figures depends on the source and not on the producer. The box office figures given by the producers are unreliable as they could change it for personal gains. We use figures that are primarily derived from sources that are considered reliable by ICTF. If you find a particular film to be using figures from an unreliable source(as per ICTF), then you are welcome to correct it using a reliable source. ~Rajan51(talk) 06:57, 20 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 19 July 2018

Actually I want Correct the Movie Collections where it has totally wrong and according to some sources. Rangasthalam Is clearly a Highest Grosser and officially announced by the producing unit. But Bharath Ane Nenu Doesn't even has a success meet and didn't announced a official announcement Pavankum222 (talk) 05:42, 19 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Danski454 (talk) 08:58, 19 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
"Is clearly a Highest Grosser and officially announced by the producing unit." Right, and as I said in the discussion above, producing units lie about their box office figures. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 15:10, 19 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Malayalam Movie The Great Father

This is not the first time a mammootty film is facing this issue.The admin always have some issue for updating his movie collection.Great father has already grossed more than 50 crore.The below likn claims that https://www.inuth.com/entertainment/malayalam-movies/kerala-box-office-mammootty-the-great-father-emerges-as-the-actors-first-rs-50-cr-blockbuster/ @Cyphoidbomb...what is your problem for not updating this?If you are telling this has been claimed by producer and not original,then how come pulimurugan,Oppam,Munthirivallikal,Aadhi in the list?The link you provided for Oppam is from Livemint.what is the relevant of that source?.people are laughing at aadhis collection when antony(producer) claims is as 50 crore..even pulimurugan also the collection is declared by producer...All mohanlal movie collections are being declared by producer and then comes on medias..

When you dont have issues with the above listed movies,why cant you not believe Great father's collection.This is not the first time this topic has comes up..we have had a discussion regarding this couple of months about this..Dude when you are doing a job like this,you should be neutral though u are a supporter of a particular actor...tell me who is the other admin in this page we can reach out to.

@Muhammed.suhail ..@Mollywood.lover...guys is there any other admin which we can reach out to for this? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sagar.kottappuram777 (talk • contribs) 08:24, 19 July 2018 (UTC) Only for Mammootty movies this is happening at first they removed pazzhashiraja now The Great Father Mollywood.lover (talk) 09:43, 19 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I don't know why you've opened multiple discussions about the same subject. It just makes tracking your arguments difficult and I'm not going to spend time doing that. Stick to one discussion thread, please. Also, you're going to have to make your arguments a little clearer, since I'm having trouble following your logic. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 15:12, 19 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Cyphoidbomb..what is it difficult to understand?The question is very simple.

1.Why you have removed Great father from the top grossing list?Please dont tell that the producer has claimed that for promotion purpose.If that is the case, all movies like Pulimurugan,Oppam,aadhi,Munthiri,Ramaleela has also been claimed by producers.

2.On what basis you put the movie in list?What is the criteria for the same?All non-mammootty movies?If you tell that it will be based on genuine sources like hindu,deccan,manorama etc..tell me where these medias getting the collection?Are they going each theaters and counting money?At the end of day,we have to believe in distributors/producers figure.If producers are telling figures for promotion purpose,why it is not happening for all movies?

Your double standard on mammootty movies are really pathetic dude.. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sagar.kottappuram777 (talk • contribs) 04:56, 20 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Sagar.kottappuram777:The problem for not updating this is that the source that you cited is not consider reliable by WP:ICTFSOURCES and WP:ICTFFAQ. As for the other films that you mentioned, their box office figures have been obtained from sources considered reliable by the Indian Cinema Task Force. You have to support your claim that these sources have obtained the figures from their producers for us to believe it. ~Rajan51(talk) 07:14, 20 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • @Sagar.kottappuram777: Though I wouldn't use this site as a reliable source, the poster is indicative of the the promotional campaign the producers of The Great Father were engaging in to promote the 50 crore figure, and that's where some of the lazier sources were getting the information. Since Wikipedia doesn't like to use primary sources for controversial claims about the subject, we would be circumspect about the claim, particularly when there are reliable sources that question whether the film's figures were exaggerated. Surely if reliable sources are questioning the figures, you would want us to scrutinize the content, right? Or do we just blindly publish the figures because the producers printed it a big, blocky, gold font?
  • "Are they going each theaters and counting money?" Each source has their own proprietary method for determining box office gross, and yes, some outlets have connections with theatres, from which they get rough box office figures, and that they extrapolate into wider estimates. It's an imperfect science, to be sure. Since you have many questions about how the process works, maybe you'd benefit from reading this article so you have a better sense for how inaccurate these figures can be. Note also that Wikipedia isn't the official keeper of Top 10 highest-grossing Indian films lists. If you have a problem with the way your favorite actor's film financials are being presented, then blame Indian media. Wikipedia only includes content that can be attributed to reliable secondary sources. If those secondary sources lack integrity and are just shills for the movie studios, then they're the entire core of the problem. Where is Manorama Online's Top 10 highest grossing Malayalam films of 2017 list? Is The Great Father on it? Does that list agree with other Malayalam news outlets' lists? If not, therein lies the problem.
  • "If producers are telling figures for promotion purpose,why it is not happening for all movies?" Who said it's not happening for all movies? It happens for many movies. We try to ignore those figures. Case in point: Kabali (film). The producers were reeeeeeally trying to get the world to believe that the film had achieved amazing records grossing upwards of 600 crore at the box office--or at least that was the illusion they wanted you to believe. In reality, the studio was lumping in 200 crore of pre-release income into the box office figures, and complicit sources like Financial Express/Indian Express were regurgitating these claims and using poor phrasing and factual omissions to perpetuate the confusion. Did we blindly publish those numbers? No. We questioned them. And now we have a more realistic range for their actual box office figures. (Although I still suspect Rob Cain is a promotional shill.)
  • "All mohanlal movie collections are being declared by producer and then comes on medias.." Please provide evidence that the majority of movie collections for Mohanlal films are declared by the producer first, then republished by the media. I'll wait while you collect your proof.
  • "Only for Mammootty movies this is happening" Patently false. See Kabali example above. There are others, like Mungaru Male, where the lead actor claimed a 75 crore gross, when most of the other outlets were comfortable with 50 crore estimates. I'm not going to dig through the entire history of Indian film edits to disprove your baseless claim.
  • "Your double standard on mammootty movies are really pathetic dude" The double-standard exists entirely in your own mind. You have a point of view about The Great Father and how unfair it is that it's not receiving the financial recognition that you think it deserves. Yet you've provided zero proof that any other box office figure originated from a primary source, or that they have been artificially inflated or that the figures have been otherwise disputed in the media. Thus, I can only conclude that your position is entirely emotional, not based on facts. If you have facts, bring facts. I can't do anything with "this is so unfair, it only happens to Mammootty, how come it never happens to Mohanlal?" arguments. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 15:47, 20 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Cyphoidbomb can you show any other sources for aadhi. For aadhi you use only one source not only for it for many movies only one source. For The Great Father you need more sources what is the logic in it ???? Mollywood.lover (talk) 05:21, 23 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Cyphoidbomb..Dude...We don't need your emotional speech in eassay to glorify lal and his movies...please make it precise ...

1.Dont act too dump saying proof for lal's producers claim the collection first and then media publishes.. It is very simple...just go and check Tomichan mulakupadam,Antony perumbavoor and Sofia pauls page to see the posters saying 50 crore,100 crore and 125 crore...If u r genuine ,I hope u know how to use facebook and u can easily find out.. What more..u jts visit,mohanlal's page to see the actor himself claimed these collections... But as I said,u shuld be genuine..:)..unfortunately not.. And FYI,this trend has been started from Oppam and Drisyam time by lal and Antony and then other follows the same.

2.Still not able to understand the aunthenticity of sources like catch news...:)..u put for Oppam...If u consider manorama as a source,i can give you the link saying that Great father collected 50 crore...but again u will tell that,in that it is mentioned that producer claimed the same...:)

3.Also listen...wiki is not the end of the world and people uses it very well understand it..the reason why I am protesting is,atleast people visit this page can understand the double standard.... Hope if mammootty get an award next year and if he tell that I got an award,as per your logic u will claim that,since mammootty first told in his page that he got an award,we cannot consider that as a source...bcos..ur excuses are as childish as this....:)

If u have the guts,just tell the name of other admins who handle this page...if not just pity on u...grow up dude..

Please don't give a big essay..:) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sagar.kottappuram777 (talk • contribs) 11:25, 23 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 20 July 2018

hi there, on this page there is movie name missing. Dasavatharam movie grossing is missing. It was 200cores Ruven99100 (talk) 09:00, 20 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 14:29, 20 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Dangal has grossed 2000 crore worldwide, or has it?

As per the refs that we use now for Dangal[16],[17]&[18](The third report is flawed as explained here), it has grossed over 2,000 crore worldwide. But interestingly, both Firstpost[19] and IBT(India)[20] reported a total below 2,000 crore. Incidentally, these were the only two sources which reported realistic figures for Kabali and explained why the other sources got it wrong. I'm not saying that these two are right again but I believe it's worth looking into this. ~Rajan51(talk) 12:50, 20 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Dangal's reported gross figures in recent reliable sources range from 1950cr to 2200cr, with most reliable sources reporting over 2000cr. Looking at the regional breakdown, it's clear that Dangal's gross lies between 2000-2100 cr. Sources reporting below 2000cr or above 2100cr could be considered outliers. It might be best to just write 2000 crore+ though. Maestro2016 (talk) 01:31, 22 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I think it would be better if we gather all reliable reports and then analyse them. Here is what we already have:
Firstpost - ₹1,957 crore [21](25 April 2018)
IBTimes(India) - ₹1,979.12 crore [22](8 June 2018)
Hindustan Times - ₹2,200 crore [23](26 January 2018)
The Statesman - ₹2,200 crore [24](3 May 2018) ~Rajan51(talk) 3:30, 22 July 2018 (UTC)
Several other sources:
What we could do is do what we did with Kabali and give a full range of figures from recent sources (1957-2200 crore), or give an average figure between the sources (which works out to roughly around 2050 crore), or simply write 2000 crore+ (meaning 2000 crore or more). Maestro2016 (talk) 11:57, 22 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Bollywood Hungama - ₹1,968.03 crore([25])
I think we can give ₹2,000 crore and then give the range 1,957-2,200 crore in a note. Besides, the current Taiwan gross in INR is weird. As per the report on Forbes, it grossed US$5.44 million, which also agrees with Mojo's figure. But to get a gross of 41 crore in INR, the conversion rate should have been over 75 INR/USD, while the highest in 2017 was around 67-68. Also, Mojo doesn't give grosses in USD based on the yearly average exchange rates. So, if we use the average exchange rate over the time when Dangal ran in China, we get 1,243.72 crore. Similarly, the Taiwan gross would be 35.1 crore.[26] ~Rajan51(talk) 13:36, 22 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
We could do that, put 2000cr and then a note with 1957-2200cr. As for currency conversions, I think it would be best to just stick to using Template:To USD, which is sourced to World Bank data, rather than trying to calculate our own currency conversions from other sites, which are not as reliable as the World Bank (fxtop, for example, may not be a reliable source). By the way, the link you posted is for Indian Express, not Bollywood Hungama. Maestro2016 (talk) 14:46, 22 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not saying that fxtop is a more reliable sources than the World Bank. What I'm saying is, since Mojo converts the grosses from the local currency to USD using the conversion rate at that point of time, using the yearly average wouldn't give us the right values. For example, converting US$193,050,870 using Template:To USD gives us 1,257.14 crore which is higher than what we get by using the average exchange rate for the time when it was running in China(1,243.72 crore). Also, Forbes seems to have used wrong conversion rates for the Taiwan gross. So, that needs to be fixed. ~Rajan51(talk) 10:49, 23 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
source: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:List_of_highest-grossing_Indian_films&oldid=851600246

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