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Great father entered in 50 crore Nabhan nbn (talk) 05:14, 1 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Abrahaminte santhathikal collect 50crores Aju 7 (talk) 15:16, 31 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The Great Father has collected 50 cr and you didn't listed it. The source is from inuth.com. It is a subset of Indian Express . https://www.inuth.com/entertainment/malayalam-movies/kerala-box-office-mammootty-the-great-father-emerges-as-the-actors-first-rs-50-cr-blockbuster/ `Mollywood.lover (talk) 03:25, 19 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Mollywood.lover: If I remember correctly, we didn't list it, because the source of the 50 crore claim for The Great Father was the producers. Inuth doesn't say that, but multiple other sources did, and we can't trust what the producers say, because the producers, and especially their promotional departments, are generally lying about their financial accomplishments to attract more viewers. Also, if you're a fan of Indian Express, you should be aware of the crappy job they did reporting Kabali's box office figures, factoring in pre-release income to report super-high numbers, when nobody else ever does that. They cannot be 100% trusted, nor can their "beta" site. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 04:58, 19 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Then can i show the pulimurugan collection sources also showing the collection said by producers Mollywood.lover (talk) 10:00, 19 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

If you have a problem with any content, you are more than welcome to challenge it by bringing your arguments and proper references. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 15:52, 20 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Cyphoidbomb can you show any other sources for aadhi. For aadhi you use only one source not only for it for many movies only one source. For The Great Father you need more sources what is the logic in it ???? Mollywood.lover (talk) 05:28, 23 July 2018 (UTC) @Cyphoidbomb Brother here is another reliable source that showing The Great Father has collected 50 cr . The News Minute is a reliable source. Please do the necessary actions as fast as possible[reply]

https://www.thenewsminute.com/article/amala-paul-make-bollywood-debut-arjun-rampal-film-85252 Mollywood.lover (talk) 09:42, 23 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Mollywood.lover...pls don't waste time talking to him..even if lal or Antony themselves comes and tell him tat Great father did business of 50 crore,he is not gonna accept it...:)..just wanted to check whether is there anyone else who don't have any partiality can help us..but it seems,this is the only admin...I think the first movie he saw in theaters is Narasimham..and only actor he think can get collection is lal..:)..just see the way he put aadhi in 50 crore..ha ha..pathetic... — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sagar.kottappuram777 (talk • contribs) 11:30, 23 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Cyphoidbomb here is another link showing The Great Father has collected 50cr Please dont say again that there is only one source for it https://www.thenewsminute.com/article/mammootty-s-great-father-biggest-hit-2017-so-far-60966 Mollywood.lover (talk) 11:07, 25 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Ramaleela has collected near to 80 cr. The source is catch news which the wikipedia used for many movies sources . http://www.catchnews.com/regional-cinema/dileep-s-ramaleela-unseats-mohanlal-blockbuster-drishyam-to-become-the-all-time-second-highest-malayalam-grosser-93444.html Mollywood.lover (talk) 03:32, 19 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Mollywood.lover: Are there any other reliable sources that claim this amount was grossed, or are we supposed to go with the source that reports the highest figures? Because I'm sure you know that Indian film financial figures are largely estimates that fluctuate depending on who's reporting them, what their agenda is, who's paying them, and a variety of other factors. Should we always go with the highest-reported values, or just in this scenario? Cyphoidbomb (talk) 05:05, 19 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Source https://www.facebook.com/arungopy.gopy/posts/1790410754342362 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2405:204:D284:9C5E:AD50:ED02:991B:90BA (talk) 06:53, 19 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Social media posts are not considered reliable as per WP:RSSELF. ~Rajan51(talk) 07:59, 19 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

if you cant beleive this collection how about pulimurugan. The same producer is for Ramaleela also. Then pulimurugan is also fluctuating figure. Sreedhar Pillai The famous Indian trade analyst says that pulimurugan has just 100 cr near Mollywood.lover (talk) 09:41, 19 July 2018 (UTC) Like that can you provide other links for Aadhi movie also relating to 50cr Mollywood.lover (talk) 06:31, 20 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The reliability of the box office figures depends on the source and not on the producer. The box office figures given by the producers are unreliable as they could change it for personal gains. We use figures that are primarily derived from sources that are considered reliable by ICTF. If you find a particular film to be using figures from an unreliable source(as per ICTF), then you are welcome to correct it using a reliable source. ~Rajan51(talk) 06:57, 20 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sagar.kottappuram777 (talk • contribs) 12:04, 23 July 2018 (UTC)[reply] 

~Rajan51..please answer the question that mollywood lover asked.Pulimuragan's collection has been claimed by tomichan the same producer of Ramaleela...mohanlal declared the same after tomichan published pulimurugan collection through his FB page.The admins considered that as a source and not even bothered whether he claimed it or not.The same producer claimed that pokkiriraja played 25K housefull shows..though I am a mammootty fan,i am not gonna believe that stupidity..if u can consider his say on pulimurugan,Then it should be the same case with other movies as well right? Or is it like for lal movies one rule and for others other rule?

This is not the first time a mammootty film is facing this issue.The admin always have some issue for updating his movie collection.Great father has already grossed more than 50 crore.The below likn claims that https://www.inuth.com/entertainment/malayalam-movies/kerala-box-office-mammootty-the-great-father-emerges-as-the-actors-first-rs-50-cr-blockbuster/ @Cyphoidbomb...what is your problem for not updating this?If you are telling this has been claimed by producer and not original,then how come pulimurugan,Oppam,Munthirivallikal,Aadhi in the list?The link you provided for Oppam is from Livemint.what is the relevant of that source?.people are laughing at aadhis collection when antony(producer) claims is as 50 crore..even pulimurugan also the collection is declared by producer...All mohanlal movie collections are being declared by producer and then comes on medias..

When you dont have issues with the above listed movies,why cant you not believe Great father's collection.This is not the first time this topic has comes up..we have had a discussion regarding this couple of months about this..Dude when you are doing a job like this,you should be neutral though u are a supporter of a particular actor...tell me who is the other admin in this page we can reach out to.

@Muhammed.suhail ..@Mollywood.lover...guys is there any other admin which we can reach out to for this? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sagar.kottappuram777 (talk • contribs) 08:24, 19 July 2018 (UTC) Only for Mammootty movies this is happening at first they removed pazzhashiraja now The Great Father Mollywood.lover (talk) 09:43, 19 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I don't know why you've opened multiple discussions about the same subject. It just makes tracking your arguments difficult and I'm not going to spend time doing that. Stick to one discussion thread, please. Also, you're going to have to make your arguments a little clearer, since I'm having trouble following your logic. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 15:12, 19 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Cyphoidbomb..what is it difficult to understand?The question is very simple.

1.Why you have removed Great father from the top grossing list?Please dont tell that the producer has claimed that for promotion purpose.If that is the case, all movies like Pulimurugan,Oppam,aadhi,Munthiri,Ramaleela has also been claimed by producers.

2.On what basis you put the movie in list?What is the criteria for the same?All non-mammootty movies?If you tell that it will be based on genuine sources like hindu,deccan,manorama etc..tell me where these medias getting the collection?Are they going each theaters and counting money?At the end of day,we have to believe in distributors/producers figure.If producers are telling figures for promotion purpose,why it is not happening for all movies?

Your double standard on mammootty movies are really pathetic dude.. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sagar.kottappuram777 (talk • contribs) 04:56, 20 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Sagar.kottappuram777:The problem for not updating this is that the source that you cited is not consider reliable by WP:ICTFSOURCES and WP:ICTFFAQ. As for the other films that you mentioned, their box office figures have been obtained from sources considered reliable by the Indian Cinema Task Force. You have to support your claim that these sources have obtained the figures from their producers for us to believe it. ~Rajan51(talk) 07:14, 20 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• @Sagar.kottappuram777: Though I wouldn't use this site as a reliable source, the poster is indicative of the the promotional campaign the producers of The Great Father were engaging in to promote the 50 crore figure, and that's where some of the lazier sources were getting the information. Since Wikipedia doesn't like to use primary sources for controversial claims about the subject, we would be circumspect about the claim, particularly when there are reliable sources that question whether the film's figures were exaggerated. Surely if reliable sources are questioning the figures, you would want us to scrutinize the content, right? Or do we just blindly publish the figures because the producers printed it a big, blocky, gold font?
• "Are they going each theaters and counting money?" Each source has their own proprietary method for determining box office gross, and yes, some outlets have connections with theatres, from which they get rough box office figures, and that they extrapolate into wider estimates. It's an imperfect science, to be sure. Since you have many questions about how the process works, maybe you'd benefit from reading this article so you have a better sense for how inaccurate these figures can be. Note also that Wikipedia isn't the official keeper of Top 10 highest-grossing Indian films lists. If you have a problem with the way your favorite actor's film financials are being presented, then blame Indian media. Wikipedia only includes content that can be attributed to reliable secondary sources. If those secondary sources lack integrity and are just shills for the movie studios, then they're the entire core of the problem. Where is Manorama Online's Top 10 highest grossing Malayalam films of 2017 list? Is The Great Father on it? Does that list agree with other Malayalam news outlets' lists? If not, therein lies the problem.
• "If producers are telling figures for promotion purpose,why it is not happening for all movies?" Who said it's not happening for all movies? It happens for many movies. We try to ignore those figures. Case in point: Kabali (film). The producers were reeeeeeally trying to get the world to believe that the film had achieved amazing records grossing upwards of 600 crore at the box office--or at least that was the illusion they wanted you to believe. In reality, the studio was lumping in 200 crore of pre-release income into the box office figures, and complicit sources like Financial Express/Indian Express were regurgitating these claims and using poor phrasing and factual omissions to perpetuate the confusion. Did we blindly publish those numbers? No. We questioned them. And now we have a more realistic range for their actual box office figures. (Although I still suspect Rob Cain is a promotional shill.)
• "All mohanlal movie collections are being declared by producer and then comes on medias.." Please provide evidence that the majority of movie collections for Mohanlal films are declared by the producer first, then republished by the media. I'll wait while you collect your proof.
• "Only for Mammootty movies this is happening" Patently false. See Kabali example above. There are others, like Mungaru Male, where the lead actor claimed a 75 crore gross, when most of the other outlets were comfortable with 50 crore estimates. I'm not going to dig through the entire history of Indian film edits to disprove your baseless claim.
• "Your double standard on mammootty movies are really pathetic dude" The double-standard exists entirely in your own mind. You have a point of view about The Great Father and how unfair it is that it's not receiving the financial recognition that you think it deserves. Yet you've provided zero proof that any other box office figure originated from a primary source, or that they have been artificially inflated or that the figures have been otherwise disputed in the media. Thus, I can only conclude that your position is entirely emotional, not based on facts. If you have facts, bring facts. I can't do anything with "this is so unfair, it only happens to Mammootty, how come it never happens to Mohanlal?" arguments. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 15:47, 20 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Cyphoidbomb can you show any other sources for aadhi. For aadhi you use only one source not only for it for many movies only one source. For The Great Father you need more sources what is the logic in it ???? Mollywood.lover (talk) 05:21, 23 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I don't understand what you're asking me. I don't see "Aadhi" at List of highest-grossing Indian films. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 15:33, 23 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Cyphoidbomb..Dude...We don't need your emotional speech in eassay to glorify lal and his movies...please make it precise ...

1.Dont act too dump saying proof for lal's producers claim the collection first and then media publishes.. It is very simple...just go and check Tomichan mulakupadam,Antony perumbavoor and Sofia pauls page to see the posters saying 50 crore,100 crore and 125 crore...If u r genuine ,I hope u know how to use facebook and u can easily find out.. What more..u jts visit,mohanlal's page to see the actor himself claimed these collections... But as I said,u shuld be genuine..:)..unfortunately not.. And FYI,this trend has been started from Oppam and Drisyam time by lal and Antony and then other follows the same.

2.Still not able to understand the aunthenticity of sources like catch news...:)..u put for Oppam...If u consider manorama as a source,i can give you the link saying that Great father collected 50 crore...but again u will tell that,in that it is mentioned that producer claimed the same...:)

3.Also listen...wiki is not the end of the world and people uses it very well understand it..the reason why I am protesting is,atleast people visit this page can understand the double standard.... Hope if mammootty get an award next year and if he tell that I got an award,as per your logic u will claim that,since mammootty first told in his page that he got an award,we cannot consider that as a source...bcos..ur excuses are as childish as this....:)

If u have the guts,just tell the name of other admins who handle this page...if not just pity on u...grow up dude..

Please don't give a big essay..:) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sagar.kottappuram777 (talk • contribs) 11:25, 23 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Sagar.kottappuram777: Re: your point #1, I don't understand what you are trying to say, but I'm not going to do your research for you. You made a baseless claim, so the burden is yours to prove it, not for me to. Also, we should be talking about films that appear on this list article, not elsewhere in the encyclopedia. Re: point #3 as clearly explained above, there is no double standard. If garbage references are used for Mohanlal films we will ignore those too. Feel free to bring that up in a different discussion. As for your request "just tell the name of other admins who handle this page" There are no admins who "handle this page", at least not in the way I think you mean. Any administrator is welcome to watch this article, but no administrators are assigned articles, and there is no list that I can refer to that will tell me what administrators are watching this article. So, unfortunately for you, there's no way for me to answer your question. But it's a moot point anyway, as any other autoconfirmed editor could make the change if there were consensus to do so. Unfortunately, there is no consensus to do so just yet. Lastly, if you don't like essay responses, don't ask so many questions next time. I have a lot of information that could be of help to you, but if your goal is to just ignore it all and say "what about this, what about this, what about this", ultimately that's a waste of everybody's time. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 15:33, 23 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Cyphoidbomb..Why are you contradicting your statement?..:) Did'nt you ask me the proof for lal movie being declared by producer?For that when i replied you to check the producer's FB page,you are telling you dont have time to research.You have time to check the sources put by others to check the credibility and you dont have time when i asked.This is what we call double standard.If there is option here to put the screenshot/picture,i can give the proof.Otherwise I can give the link of their FB page.If I put,can you check their pages?

I am talking about movies listed in this page only and not outside.Can you tell me the name of one movie which i mention that is not listed in this page? Oppam is the 3rd highest grosser in this page...lol(even the producer shocked by seeing this)...the source for that is Catchnews..even pulimurugan,aadhi,munthirivallikal..all listed in this page..what is wrong with this..?

If no admin handle this page...just mention some non malayali admin who can check our concern other than you.Let me see whether that person can understand what we say. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sagar.kottappuram777 (talk • contribs) 07:24, 25 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Cyphoidbomb..Another genuine source as per you..lol:

https://www.ibtimes.co.in/mollywood-2017-top-malayalam-movies-that-earned-big-kerala-box-office-this-year-753935

If you see the list it contain most of top grossing malayalam movies in this page..Munthirivallikal,Ramaleela,Ezra etc..they have included Great father as well in the list.That is just below Munthirivallikal and above Ezra..:)..But you are telling Ramaleela,Munthiri and Ezra is fine..but not great father..:)..what logic is that dude? One more thing,If you see the details of Ramaleela in above list,it is clearly mentioned that makers are revealed..:)..but you are not considering that... Only for mammootty movies,if makes revealed ,that cannot be considered as genuine..not for others..:)

I know there is no point of telling you this..But still I will keep on putting these kind of sources so that atleast people seeing this will be able to understand..

Lastly..just erase all the discussion we had from you mind and check the above source as a normal person who doesnt have any spl interest towards an actor..you will understand what i meant.. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sagar.kottappuram777 (talk • contribs) 07:37, 25 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Admin i will provide you another source too for the movie The Great Father which you are saying only one link is there showing 50cr https://www.thenewsminute.com/article/mammootty-s-great-father-biggest-hit-2017-so-far-60966 Mollywood.lover (talk) 08:20, 31 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

For the claim that the trend started with Oppam and Drishyam, it's a misleading and a fallacious argument as the producer has never published any financial numbers for these films. "What about others" will not work here. First of all, you cannot compare The Great Father with any other films on the list. Because, the internet sources has only reported what the producers has claimed - the rib-tickling first day collection 4.31 crore, the math-defying 4 days 20 crore claim[1], and the ridiculous 50 crore. There is no single reliable source that has reported any figures other than this. Where are the sources that reports the collection updates that it reached 15 crore or 25, 30 or 40 crore ? For the all other films on the list there are multiple reliable sources that published this step-by-step collection updates. Why did the reliable news medias refused to report The Great Father gross while they reported others ? It's probably because if published, the collection numbers would not match with the exaggerated numbers projected by the producer, so they don't want that financial discrepancy. Obviously the hardcore fans will not understand this, they are too blind to be reasonable and are busy tagging whoever question their boxoffice numbers as Mohanlal supporter and Mammooty suppressor. 116.68.105.42 (talk) 09:08, 1 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

hi there, on this page there is movie name missing. Dasavatharam movie grossing is missing. It was 200cores Ruven99100 (talk) 09:00, 20 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 14:29, 20 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

As per the refs that we use now for Dangal[2],[3]&[4](The third report is flawed as explained here), it has grossed over 2,000 crore worldwide. But interestingly, both Firstpost[5] and IBT(India)[6] reported a total below 2,000 crore. Incidentally, these were the only two sources which reported realistic figures for Kabali and explained why the other sources got it wrong. I'm not saying that these two are right again but I believe it's worth looking into this. ~Rajan51(talk) 12:50, 20 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Dangal's reported gross figures in recent reliable sources range from 1950cr to 2200cr, with most reliable sources reporting over 2000cr. Looking at the regional breakdown, it's clear that Dangal's gross lies between 2000-2100 cr. Sources reporting below 2000cr or above 2100cr could be considered outliers. It might be best to just write 2000 crore+ though. Maestro2016 (talk) 01:31, 22 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I think it would be better if we gather all reliable reports and then analyse them. Here is what we already have:

Firstpost - ₹1,957 crore [7](25 April 2018)

IBTimes(India) - ₹1,979.12 crore [8](8 June 2018)

Hindustan Times - ₹2,200 crore [9](26 January 2018)

The Statesman - ₹2,200 crore [10](3 May 2018) ~Rajan51(talk) 3:30, 22 July 2018 (UTC)

Several other sources:

• Business Today - ₹2,000 crore (6 July 2018)
• Firstpost - ₹2,000 crore (4 January 2018)
• Indian Express - ₹2,000 crore (30 May 2018)

What we could do is do what we did with Kabali and give a full range of figures from recent sources (1957-2200 crore), or give an average figure between the sources (which works out to roughly around 2050 crore), or simply write 2000 crore+ (meaning 2000 crore or more). Maestro2016 (talk) 11:57, 22 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Bollywood Hungama - ₹1,968.03 crore([11])

I think we can give ₹2,000 crore and then give the range 1,957-2,200 crore in a note. Besides, the current Taiwan gross in INR is weird. As per the report on Forbes, it grossed US$5.44 million, which also agrees with Mojo's figure. But to get a gross of 41 crore in INR, the conversion rate should have been over 75 INR/USD, while the highest in 2017 was around 67-68. Also, Mojo doesn't give grosses in USD based on the yearly average exchange rates. So, if we use the average exchange rate over the time when Dangal ran in China, we get 1,243.72 crore. Similarly, the Taiwan gross would be 35.1 crore.[12] ~Rajan51(talk) 13:36, 22 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

We could do that, put 2000cr and then a note with 1957-2200cr. As for currency conversions, I think it would be best to just stick to using Template:To USD, which is sourced to World Bank data, rather than trying to calculate our own currency conversions from other sites, which are not as reliable as the World Bank (fxtop, for example, may not be a reliable source). By the way, the link you posted is for Indian Express, not Bollywood Hungama. Maestro2016 (talk) 14:46, 22 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not saying that fxtop is a more reliable sources than the World Bank. What I'm saying is, since Mojo converts the grosses from the local currency to USD using the conversion rate at that point of time, using the yearly average wouldn't give us the right values. For example, converting US$193,050,870 using Template:To USD gives us 1,257.14 crore which is higher than what we get by using the average exchange rate for the time when it was running in China(1,243.72 crore). Also, Forbes seems to have used wrong conversion rates for the Taiwan gross. So, that needs to be fixed. ~Rajan51(talk) 10:49, 23 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The point is that the World Bank is a reliable source, whereas fxtop is a questionable source (it does not look like a reliable source). Therefore, it only makes sense to stick to the World Bank data used by Template:To USD and Template:INRConvert, rather than using fxtop. Whether it's for China, Taiwan, India, or any other currency conversion. Maestro2016 (talk) 17:13, 23 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Devadaths123 (talk) 04:37, 2 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The Great Father has emerged as the first Mammootty movie to enter the 50-Crore club, by making a total gross collection of 50.07 Crores from the Kerala, rest of India, and UAE/GCC box offices.

Read more at: https://www.filmibeat.com/malayalam/news/2017/the-great-father-box-office-enters-50-crore-club/articlecontent-pf201521-259046.html

Abrahaminte Santhathikal has emerged Second Top Grossing Malayalam Movie Of All Time

Read more at: https://www.filmibeat.com/malayalam/news/2018/abrahaminte-santhathikal-box-office-it-becomes-the-second-top-grossing-malayalam-movie/articlecontent-pf259123-275783.html

Read more at: https://www.filmibeat.com/malayalam/news/2018/abrahaminte-santhathikal-box-office-it-becomes-the-second-top-grossing-malayalam-movie/articlecontent-pf259123-275783.html

 Not done: Wow, for some reason, the 30 March 2017 release of the Malayalam film The Great Father, has suddenly inspired a small legion of brand-new users in July-August 2018 to push for recognition of a 50 crore gross claim proliferated by the film's producers. Sorry, but Filmibeat is not considered a reliable source, especially if they're parroting what the producers have claimed. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 04:57, 2 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Abrahaminte Santhathikal is currently the second highest grosser in malayalam as revealed by its producers via a facebook post. 2405:204:D38E:F1DE:ACF4:C37B:6502:2158 (talk) 02:02, 14 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

We can't add it unless it is stated by some realible source. Tolly4bolly 02:33, 14 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

As with a lot of Mammooty's movies, here is a reference which states in unequivocal terms that the source for the reference are the producers themselves. And read the last line in the article to understand why nobody, including the media, believes in these inflated numbers. Jupitus Smart 19:16, 18 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

PS: here is another reference from another WP:RS media house. Jupitus Smart 19:20, 18 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]