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The subdivision of the article List of African-American United States Representatives into four generations is drawn directly from the Black Americans in Congress website. The website is maintained by the Office of Historian, United States House of Representatives. There is a 1001 page companion book that has identical material with the website serving as an ongoing supplement that is regularly updated. The book and website contain extensive citations.

I will be gradually rewriting the Wikipedia article African Americans in the United States Congress to focus solely upon the African-American elected officials and the electorate that elected them. Also, I will be adding other material that is not mentioned in either the book or website.

Hopefully, this update and future additions will illuminate more information and insights that did not exist in the previous list and do not exist in the article page.

--Mitchumch (talk) 18:07, 10 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Quick note, your template incorrectly linked party affiliations to "Democrat Party" rather than "Democratic Party" - --Loonymonkey (talk) 02:24, 28 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

There is evidence that the mother of 19th Century New Mexico Delegate Antonio Joseph was a mulatta former slave (but was "passing" while living in New Mexico). See the information in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Antonio_Joseph_(politician). If the evidence is deemed to be sufficient to make the assertion, should Antonio Joseph be added to the List of African-American United States Representatives? He wasn't considered an African American when he served in Congress, but if the goal is to list all African-American members of the U.S. House of Representatives, it would be odd to keep him off the list just because he kept his ancestry hidden.

(Of course, it is not my intention to put the cart before the horse, and a decision on whether to accept the evidence on the identity of Antonio Joseph's mother must come before any decision on his inclusion in this page.) AuH2ORepublican (talk) 15:12, 30 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I appreciate your willingness to post this proposed edit on the talk page first. I would like some time to research this. However, my initial thoughts are Wikipedia is not the proper venue for the question you are posing. There are several printed sources that examine African Americans in Congress during the time period Antonio Joseph (1846–1910) was alive and served in Congress (March 4, 1885-March 3, 1895).

• Clay, William L. Just Permanent Interests: Black Americans in Congress, 1870–1991. Amistad Press, 1992. ISBN 1-56743-000-7
• Freedman, Eric. African Americans in Congress: A Documentary History. CQ Press, 2007. ISBN 0-87289-385-5
• Gill, LaVerne McCain. African American Women in Congress: Forming and Transforming History. Rutgers University Press, 1997. ISBN 0-8135-2353-2
• Middleton, Stephen. Black Congressmen During Reconstruction: A Documentary Sourcebook. Westport, Conn.: Praeger, 2002. ISBN 0-313-06512-8

Perhaps the most comprehensive and authoritative source is:

• Wasniewski, Matthew editor. Black Americans in Congress, 1870-2007. Washington, D.C.: GPO, 2008. ISBN 978-0-16-080194-5.

Website, regularly updated - Black Americans in Congress

Free book - H. Doc. 108-224 - Black Americans in Congress 1870 - 2007.

Since the Congressional Research Service maintains "Black Americans in Congress, 1870-2007," it would be better to contact them regarding Antonio Joseph's non-inclusion among African-American congressmen or Hispanic Americans in Congress. Contact Jennifer Manning at JMANNING@crs.loc.gov for the Congressional Research Service. I've contacted her regarding discrepancies present in federal publications. She was always prompt in her responses to me.

I know this is not the response you were seeking. But given the number of written works on this topic, the non inclusion of Antonio Joseph in those works, I am currently leaning towards Wikipedia:No original research for the proposed edit. But, I still want to more thoroughly examine the sources you've listed to better understand your position. Thanks again. Mitchumch (talk) 05:52, 1 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you very much for your thoughtful reply. I agree with you that Wikipedia is no place for original research, and I certainly don't have the time or inclination to research 19th century birth and baptismal records to try to confirm Antonio Joseph's ancestry. What I was thinking of doing was citing research carried out by others who have researched and written about the subject (i.e., New Mexico historian Malcolm Elbright and genealogical researcher Ceferino Ahuero-Baca) to point out that Antonio Joseph was African American. The fact that earlier treatises on early African-American Congressmen did not discuss Antonio Joseph does not mean that he was not African American: It is likely that the authors did not know that Joseph, who was "passing" for white, was the son of an African-American slave woman, and, even if the authors knew about his parentage, they may have decided, on philosophical or editorial grounds, to exclude Joseph because they believe that only those whom contemporaries knew were African American faced the hurdles that made their service in Congress such an interesting subject.

I would posit that an encyclopedia, particularly one edited by the public at large, should seek to avoid such viewpoint-based judgments, and include in an article listing African-American congressmen all persons of substantial black or African-American ancestry that served in Congress, irrespective of such person's relationship with his or her blackness. (I think that only those with "substantial" black or African-American ancestry should be included, given that the "one-drop rule" not only is nonsensical but would lead to persons such as Barack Obama's mother to be deemed African American because her 11-great grandfather was early 17th-century slave John Punch, making her 1/2048th (0.05%) black; alas, Ann Dunham was categorized as "African American" in a Wikipedia article on Americans with one African parent and one African-American parent: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_African-American.)

We don't need former Congressman Bill Clay to tell us whether a person whose mother was an African-American slave in the U.S. South should be considered an African American, although, as I said at the outset, it is possible that the consensus reached is that Antonio Joseph was African American but that he should be relegated to a footnote in the article on African-American members of the U.S. House of Representatives given that he "passed" as white during his entire adult life. While it certainly would make this debate academic if Matthew Wasniewski were to add Antonio Joseph to his compendium on "Black Americans in Congress" (and if you have corresponded with Wasniewski in the past I would be much obliged if you sent him what Elbright and Ahuero-Baca wrote for his consideration).

So thank you once again for your response, and I welcome additional comments from you or from other editors interested in this subject, both on this talk page and on the one regarding Antonio Joseph: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Antonio_Joseph_(politician) AuH2ORepublican (talk) 20:59, 5 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Adriano Espaillat has won the Democratic Party nomination for New York's 13th Congressional District (the Harlem-based district that has been represented by Charles Rangel since 1971 and, before that, by Adam Clayton Powell since 1945), and almost certainly will be elected in November in that safely Democratic seat. Espaillat is a naturalized U.S. citizen originally from the Dominican Republic, and clearly is a descendant, in large part, of African slaves (as is the case for many, perhaps most, Dominicans). Had Espaillat been born, with the same parentage, in Haiti instead of the Dominican Republic (both of which are on the island of Hispaniola), there would be no question that he would be considered an African American (as well as a Haitian American), and we would be getting ready to add him to the List of African-American United States Representatives come January 3. However, because Espaillat is indubitably Hispanic, some people would claim that such fact disqualifies him from being considered an African American, despite the fact that "Hispanic" is an ethnicity, not a race, and that Hispanics can be of any race (including black). But others would say "he's an American, and he's of (non-trivial) Sub-Saharan African descent, so of course he's an African American."

So, the question is, what should we do on January 3? Should we wait to see whether Espaillat joins the Congressional Black Caucus? Of course, several African-American Representatives never joined the Congressional Black Caucus (to wit, J.C. Watts, Tim Scott and Will Hurd), so membership in the Caucus is not dispositive as to whether someone should be considered an African-American United States Representative. My vote is for adding Espaillat on January 3, but I wanted to hear from others to see what they think.

-- AuH2ORepublican (talk) 19:57, 7 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@AuH2ORepublican: The Office of the Historian for Congress will make that determination and they maintain an up-to-date list of African Americans in Congress. Another argument is all humans are of African ancestry. We should let reliable sources that research African Americans in Congress to be the sole determinant for such arguments. To do otherwise is original research. Mitchumch (talk) 02:32, 8 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]