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== "simulating sex" is homophobic phrasing == |
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== Lion origins == |
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I.e. from "Males will also head-rub and roll around with each other before simulating sex together." under "Behaviour and ecology" then "Reproduction and life cycle". They have sex. [[Special:Contributions/31.20.106.40|31.20.106.40]] ([[User talk:31.20.106.40|talk]]) 10:50, 5 June 2023 (UTC) |
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{{u|BhagyaMani}}, I don't know why you're insisting that the earliest lions did not originate from Africa, even though your source (Werdelin) clearly states that they did. It did not say that the lion fossils found in Tanzania were merely modern lions. You have also cited Tseng (2014) for the claim that lions originated in Asia but what it actually states is "This is then followed by later Miocene dispersal of the lion–leopard–jaguar lineage and then Pliocene dispersal of the fossil ‘lions’. According to the DEC models, the last two dispersals probably occurred from Africa-Palearctic or Holarctic ancestral geographical ranges." Its stating that fossil lions could have originated anywhere in Africa or the Holoarctic. I personally think this information is unhelpful to readers and we should merely state that the earliest known lion fossils are found in Africa. [[User:LittleJerry|LittleJerry]] ([[User talk:LittleJerry|talk]]) 12:50, 22 May 2020 (UTC) |
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: I think there are several issues here. Firstly, the earliest fossil lions are 2 million years ago in Africa. This might not be the earliest lion. Secondly, the genetic evidence on lineages (Johnson et al, 2006, Li et al, 2017) suggests a possible earlier Asian origin, but one without fossil evidence. A third issue is that the modern lions can be traced to a more recent African ancestor (~250 kya?). This is just off the top of my head so I'd need to check the details. — <span style="font-family:Arial;background:#d6ffe6;border:solid 1px;border-radius:5px;box-shadow:darkcyan 0px 1px 1px;"> [[User:Jts1882|Jts1882]] |[[User talk:Jts1882| talk]] </span> 13:33, 22 May 2020 (UTC) |
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::Re 'secondly': this is what I understood too, given that all authors agree about ''Panthera'' having radiated from Central Asia, with the ''leo'' lineage having migrated south / southwest, and the 2 cave lion lineages towards north, northwest and northeast; and that the Olduvai fossils are attributed to ''leo''. -- [[User:BhagyaMani|BhagyaMani]] ([[User talk:BhagyaMani|talk]]) 14:28, 22 May 2020 (UTC) |
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== Alternate purposes of the mane == |
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{{u|LittleJerry}} On one hand, the main purpose of the mane is considered to be playing a role in sexual attraction towards females. On the other hand, the mane's length is considered to signal fighting success in male–male relationships, with it acting as protection for the neck and throat in territorial fights with rivals, and I've seen it myself, not just in fights between male lions, but also between lions and tigers in captivity. Tigers are supposed to have longer canines and stronger bite-forces than lions, yet I've seen plenty of cases where tigers failed to kill lions with their regular method of killing, that is to bite the throat or neck. If the manes did not offer any protection for the lions' throats or necks, then those lions should have been doomed when the tigers aimed for their throats or necks! [[User:Leo1pard|Leo1pard]] ([[User talk:Leo1pard|talk]]) 12:42, 7 August 2020 (UTC); edited 12:43, 7 August 2020 (UTC) |
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::The mane being neck protection is no longer valid. [http://www.firstscience.com/SITE/ARTICLES/lion_manes.asp#topofpage] [[User:LittleJerry|LittleJerry]] ([[User talk:LittleJerry|talk]]) 12:39, 8 August 2020 (UTC) |
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::: Yes it is, because the mane has been seen to be a form of protection, contrary to what this reference says, and the case of one reference contradicting another means [[WP:Conflicting sources]], so we have to take a [[WP:Neutral POV]]. But as it is, you missed something in the given [http://www.firstscience.com/SITE/ARTICLES/lion_manes.asp#topofpage source]: |
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{{quote|Even though today manes don't '''seem''' to offer protection, West says a protective role could have been the reason the trait evolved in the first place. In the early evolution of the trait, males may have gone straight for the neck, making individuals with manes harder to attack and thus more favored by natural selection. As evolution continued and more and more males developed manes, attacking the neck area would no longer have been an effective fighting strategy, causing lions to try for the back side instead.}} |
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{{edit semi-protected|Lion|answered=yes}} |
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[[User:Leo1pard|Leo1pard]] ([[User talk:Leo1pard|talk]]) 17:52, 12 August 2020 (UTC); edited 18:00, 12 August 2020 (UTC) |
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Mountain Lions, Cougars, and Puma are classified as Lions. Fix it. |
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X == Asia & Africa are native to lions |
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::She said "could have". We should mention the function that has the most evidence. [[User:LittleJerry|LittleJerry]] ([[User talk:LittleJerry|talk]]) 01:32, 13 August 2020 (UTC) |
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Y == + America (that is all) |
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Having ignorant people remove edits without looking into knowledge learned before them, is pathetic. |
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: {{u|BhagyaMani}} OK, let's finish the discussion first. {{u|LittleJerry}} Not just that, even [http://www.firstscience.com/SITE/ARTICLES/lion_manes.asp#topofpage Peyton West et al.] could not refute the idea held by [https://www.newscientist.com/letter/mg15020307-000-letters-by-any-other-mane/ Joubert] and others that the mane at least made it hard for opponents to kill male lions by trying to bite their necks. What West et al. actually said is that lions were shown to attack rivals at their backs or hindquarters, whether or not they were maned, therefore that the presence of the mane did not influence their style of fighting style, not that the manes cannot protect the lions' necks at all! You can even ask {{u|Tijkil}}, who like me has seen fights between lions and tigers, and I believe that he would agree with me that if it wasn't for their thick manes (not think or scanty manes, like the juvenile [http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/72902592?searchTerm=lion%20fights%20tiger&searchLimits= Huerte], or what happened at Ankara Zoo), then the male lions in those fights should have been doomed when the tigers (which are considered to have stronger bites, besides longer canines) aimed for their nacks, [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZYXsCm0GmM like this leopard], right Tijkil? |
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Such a simple fix I thought most knew. [[Special:Contributions/172.56.82.219|172.56.82.219]] ([[User talk:172.56.82.219|talk]]) 09:13, 3 October 2023 (UTC) |
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According to [https://www.academia.edu/239888/Bite_forces_and_evolutionary_adaptations_to_feeding_ecology_in_carnivores_Ecology_ Christiansen], [http://intern.forskning.no/dokumenter/wroe.pdf Wroe et al.], tigers have higher average bite forces (such as at the canine tips) than lions. The bite force adjusted for body mass allometry [[Bite force quotient|(BFQ)]] for tiger is 127, while that for lion is 112. Tigers have well-developed [[sagittal crest]]s and coronoid processes, providing muscle attachment for their strong bites. Tigers also have exceptionally stout teeth, and the canines are the longest and biggest among all living felids (barring hybrids like the liger), measuring from {{convert|7.5|to|10|cm|in|abbr=on}} in length, and are larger and longer than those of a similar-sized lion, probably because tigers need to bring down larger prey alone than lions, which usually hunt large prey in groups, according to [https://books.google.com/books?id=IF8nDwAAQBAJ&lpg=PP1&pg=PA246&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=lions%20tigers&f=false Sunquist & Sunquist], and [http://www.worldanimalfoundation.net/f/Tiger.pdf World Animal Foundation] [[User:Leo1pard|Leo1pard]] ([[User talk:Leo1pard|talk]]) 07:01, 13 August 2020 (UTC); edited 08:25, 13 August 2020 (UTC) |
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:[[File:Red information icon with gradient background.svg|20px|link=|alt=]] '''Not done:'''<!-- Template:ESp --> No. They are a separate species from proper lions. [[User:Meters|Meters]] ([[User talk:Meters|talk]]) 09:28, 3 October 2023 (UTC) |
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== Featured Images == |
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:''Could have. May be. Perhaps.'' : This page is NOT the place to speculate ! NOR rely on pers. comms. with other editors ! Readers have access to both relevant articles presenting research methods + results, and can speculate themselves, privately, after reading the full versions. -- [[User:BhagyaMani|BhagyaMani]] ([[User talk:BhagyaMani|talk]]) 08:12, 13 August 2020 (UTC) |
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I’d like to suggest a change to the featured images, or in the very least to the lioness image. I’m a little biased, of course, as the images are my own. The [[c:File:Lion_waiting_in_Namibia.jpg|current male]] is a stunning specimen, so I won’t be too disappointed if the consensus is to keep it. Lions in sanctuaries are always just so majestic! This is a photo the biggest male I’ve seen, and my proposed [[c:File:Lion_at_Working_with_Wildlife_South_Africa.jpg|male image]]. |
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: {{u|BhagyaMani}} It is basically confirmed that lions tend to avoid the necks when fighting each other, preferring instead the hindquarters or the backs, and that manes make it at least difficult to bite the neck of male lions with thick manes. [[User:Leo1pard|Leo1pard]] ([[User talk:Leo1pard|talk]]) 08:27, 13 August 2020 (UTC) |
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For a lioness, this is my [[c:File:Lioness_at_Working_with_Wildlife_South_Africa.jpg|proposed photo]] and the most impressive female I’ve ever seen. Bias aside, I really think she is a perfect example and an improvement over the current lioness image. Hopefully my contribution can help! [[User:AfricanConservation|AfricanConservation]] ([[User talk:AfricanConservation|talk]]) 15:36, 28 January 2024 (UTC) |
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:What we discuss here, is the CONTENT of the section on main page, but not what is basically.... The images do not contribute ANYthing to this discussion on content. -- [[User:BhagyaMani|BhagyaMani]] ([[User talk:BhagyaMani|talk]]) 08:37, 13 August 2020 (UTC) |
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*'''Oppose''' because the descriptions of both images contain a link to an organisation with which you are apparently affiliated. As User:331dot already explained to you on your talk page : this kind of advertising constitutes a conflict of interest. Remove this link, and I may change my mind. – [[User:BhagyaMani|BhagyaMani]] ([[User talk:BhagyaMani|talk]]) 02:18, 29 January 2024 (UTC) |
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*:Apologies, these photos were uploaded before my talk with User:331dot and clarified. Link removed from both images. [[User:AfricanConservation|AfricanConservation]] ([[User talk:AfricanConservation|talk]]) 04:03, 29 January 2024 (UTC) |
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== Semi-protected edit request on 3 March 2024 == |
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:: OK, but it is basically confirmed that the thick mane of a lion makes it hard for a rival to bite its neck, and that lions tend to fight or kill each by aiming for their backs or hindquarters, rather than their necks. And to quote [https://science.sciencemag.org/content/297/5585/1339 Packer & West], the length of the mane is related to a lion's success in fighting, so we have an abundance of sources showing that the manes of lions are useful in fights with their rivals, not useless! [[User:Leo1pard|Leo1pard]] ([[User talk:Leo1pard|talk]]) 11:42, 13 August 2020 (UTC); edited 11:43, 13 August 2020 (UTC) |
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Here's what Packer and West say in their article. [[User:LittleJerry|LittleJerry]] ([[User talk:LittleJerry|talk]]) 00:45, 14 August 2020 (UTC) |
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{{quote|However, we could find no evidence that lions primarily attack the neck/shoulder region or that wounds to this area are especially harmful(14). '''Further, all felids are similarly armed, yet the lion is the only species with a conspicuous male ornament. Owing to their complex social system, lions are the only felid in which males and females can regularly compare males''', and excess females can freely choose among them. Thus, the mane might have evolved to signal male genetic and/or phenotypic condition.}} |
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: Yes, that's right, male lions usually don't attack each other the area of the neck (which is covered by the mane), whereas tigers for instance regularly attack or kill their victims by aiming for their necks. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kngLSEB3k74 This kind of fight], in which the mane was targeted, is therefore rare, but even then, both of them survived, so the thick mane does make it hard for a rival to bite its neck, and even tigers have found that hard. [[User:Leo1pard|Leo1pard]] ([[User talk:Leo1pard|talk]]) 05:01, 14 August 2020 (UTC) |
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::Did you miss the bolded part? [[User:LittleJerry|LittleJerry]] ([[User talk:LittleJerry|talk]]) 09:33, 14 August 2020 (UTC) |
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: No, it means that the lion has a unique style of fighting among felids, because of its unique mane. [[User:Leo1pard|Leo1pard]] ([[User talk:Leo1pard|talk]]) 15:23, 14 August 2020 (UTC) |
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::It means that the "fighting" explanation does not explain why elaborate manes didn't evolved in other cats. [[User:LittleJerry|LittleJerry]] ([[User talk:LittleJerry|talk]]) 22:57, 14 August 2020 (UTC) |
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:::Exactly!!!! This is a question I had in mind aaaall the time: since all other male carnivores fight, why did only the male lion develop a mane ?? -- [[User:BhagyaMani|BhagyaMani]] ([[User talk:BhagyaMani|talk]]) 07:54, 15 August 2020 (UTC) |
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: Either way, the lion has a unique system of fighting, just as it has a unique mane and a unique social system, within the genus [[Panthera]], like how the [[tiger]] is unique in this genus for having stripes rather than spots, considering that the other species (the lion, [[leopard]], [[jaguar]] and [[snow leopard]]) all have spots or rosettes (with lions being spotted at birth). [[User:Leo1pard|Leo1pard]] ([[User talk:Leo1pard|talk]]) 07:50, 16 August 2020 (UTC) |
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::You said that the because of the mane, the lion has a unique fight style. Now you're saying it has the mane because of how it fights. [[User:LittleJerry|LittleJerry]] ([[User talk:LittleJerry|talk]]) 13:18, 17 August 2020 (UTC) |
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: No, I said that the lion has a unique system of fighting, just as it has a unique mane and a unique social system, within the genus ''Panthera'', not that the lion has the mane because of its style of fighting! [[User:Leo1pard|Leo1pard]] ([[User talk:Leo1pard|talk]]) 06:17, 19 August 2020 (UTC) |
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== Minor suggestion - Melbourne Zoo photo description == |
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Hi, just a minor edit suggestion for the Melbourne Zoo lion photo - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lion#/media/File:Lion_-_melbourne_zoo.jpg. |
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The description is emotive, saying that the lion is enjoying the moment. No other photo uses this emotive language. We also have no idea if the emotion is accurate, maybe the lion is just tired and yawning. <!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Kaizoku-D|Kaizoku-D]] ([[User talk:Kaizoku-D#top|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Kaizoku-D|contribs]]) 07:54, 8 August 2020 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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Yolo |
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{{edit semi-protected|Lion|answered=yes}} |
{{edit semi-protected|Lion|answered=yes}} |
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In cultural significance -> western world the third sentence starts with: "Tfhe lion is featured in several of Aesop's fables...". There's a typo on the article, so "Tfhe" should be changed to "The". Thanks! [[User:Bullerr|Bullerr]] ([[User talk:Bullerr|talk]]) 16:01, 3 March 2024 (UTC) |
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This line seems grammatically weird: |
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:{{done}}<!-- Template:ESp --> Thank you! --[[User:TheImaCow|TheImaCow]] ([[User talk:TheImaCow#top|talk]]) 21:32, 3 March 2024 (UTC) |
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> Lions also enter waterways, evidenced by the occasional lion claw found in crocodile stomachs.[138] |
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If it's saying Crocodiles sometimes kill and eat lions, something like: |
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> Crocodiles may also kill Lions who enter waterways, evidenced by the occasional lion claw found in crocodile stomachs.[138] [[Special:Contributions/70.186.123.3|70.186.123.3]] ([[User talk:70.186.123.3|talk]]) 07:24, 12 August 2020 (UTC) |
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: {{done}} |
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== |
== Bite force == |
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Hello to all of you. I added information on the biteforce of ''Panthera leo'' because other ''Pantheras'' have this information. I put it up here to let the three major page contributors—BhagyaMani, LittleJerry, and Casliber—know. As I can personally attest to, readers find this kind of information to be really helpful, so I advise leaving the edit rather than rolling it back. Having been a Wikipedia reader since 2018, I was dismayed to see no mention of bite force on any of my favorite articles. I hope I was able to serve the readers here. [[User:Wolverine XI|<span style="color:#000080;">'''''Wolverine'''''</span> <span style="color:#8A307F;">'''''XI'''''</span>]] <sup>([[User talk:Wolverine XI|<span style="color:#2C5F2D;">talk to me</span>]])</sup> 17:32, 6 April 2024 (UTC) |
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Den, is the name given to the place where the lion lives. Lion is a wonderful creature and loves to live in groups. The group normally consists of a lion and more than one lioness. [[User:Priteshtiwari|Priteshtiwari]] ([[User talk:Priteshtiwari|talk]]) 04:01, 20 October 2020 (UTC) |
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Revision as of 03:02, 14 May 2024
 | Lion is a featured article; it (or a previous version of it) has been identified as one of the best articles produced by the Wikipedia community. Even so, if you can update or improve it, please do so. | |||||||||||||||||||||
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This page has archives. Sections older than 90 days may be automatically archived by Lowercase sigmabot III when more than 5 sections are present. |
"simulating sex" is homophobic phrasing
I.e. from "Males will also head-rub and roll around with each other before simulating sex together." under "Behaviour and ecology" then "Reproduction and life cycle". They have sex. 31.20.106.40 (talk) 10:50, 5 June 2023 (UTC)
=== No it's not. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.56.82.219 (talk) 09:15, 3 October 2023 (UTC)
Semi-protected edit request on 3 October 2023
Mountain Lions, Cougars, and Puma are classified as Lions. Fix it.
X == Asia & Africa are native to lions Y == + America (that is all)
Having ignorant people remove edits without looking into knowledge learned before them, is pathetic.
Such a simple fix I thought most knew. 172.56.82.219 (talk) 09:13, 3 October 2023 (UTC)
Not done: No. They are a separate species from proper lions. Meters (talk) 09:28, 3 October 2023 (UTC)
Featured Images
I’d like to suggest a change to the featured images, or in the very least to the lioness image. I’m a little biased, of course, as the images are my own. The current male is a stunning specimen, so I won’t be too disappointed if the consensus is to keep it. Lions in sanctuaries are always just so majestic! This is a photo the biggest male I’ve seen, and my proposed male image.
For a lioness, this is my proposed photo and the most impressive female I’ve ever seen. Bias aside, I really think she is a perfect example and an improvement over the current lioness image. Hopefully my contribution can help! AfricanConservation (talk) 15:36, 28 January 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose because the descriptions of both images contain a link to an organisation with which you are apparently affiliated. As User:331dot already explained to you on your talk page : this kind of advertising constitutes a conflict of interest. Remove this link, and I may change my mind. – BhagyaMani (talk) 02:18, 29 January 2024 (UTC)
- Apologies, these photos were uploaded before my talk with User:331dot and clarified. Link removed from both images. AfricanConservation (talk) 04:03, 29 January 2024 (UTC)
Semi-protected edit request on 3 March 2024
In cultural significance -> western world the third sentence starts with: "Tfhe lion is featured in several of Aesop's fables...". There's a typo on the article, so "Tfhe" should be changed to "The". Thanks! Bullerr (talk) 16:01, 3 March 2024 (UTC)
Bite force
Hello to all of you. I added information on the biteforce of Panthera leo because other Pantheras have this information. I put it up here to let the three major page contributors—BhagyaMani, LittleJerry, and Casliber—know. As I can personally attest to, readers find this kind of information to be really helpful, so I advise leaving the edit rather than rolling it back. Having been a Wikipedia reader since 2018, I was dismayed to see no mention of bite force on any of my favorite articles. I hope I was able to serve the readers here. Wolverine XI (talk to me) 17:32, 6 April 2024 (UTC)