Korea C‑class High‑importance

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Discussion copied from User talk pages:

BoA is debuting in America, Se7en is debuting in America. Shouldn't there be something about this under the American section?

Why? Debuts by Korean artists is not proof of the Korean wave. There are many Italians, Spanish, Russians, etc. making debuts in America. That doesn't mean popularity of those cultures are growing. Groink (talk) 21:00, 19 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Borgqueen!

I don't quite get why you put the {{advert}}-Tag in the article, it looks okay to me. Please explain. --Mkill 19:49, 8 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

It is ironic that I am Korean and I feel it sounds WAY promotional :-) IMO some negative view or criticism should be present in the article, for the sake of balance. Even among Koreans themselves there have been skepticisms for the phenomenon... I've considered to add the thing myself but it is more difficult when you write on your own culture. Hoping someone else would do it, I had applied the tag. But perhaps it is a better approach to discuss this issue on the talk page of the article. --BorgQueen 20:01, 8 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The Korean wave is not a political issue, it's just pop culture [1]. There is no need for politically correct neutrality, positive-negative, or whatever. Just stating the facts is enough. As far as the facts go, the article is okay, there is no doubt there is (or has been) a craze about the stuff. Even the mother of my girlfriend was affected (being a middle-aged Japanese woman, no surprise there). I'll just remove the advert tag.

[1] Yes, there are people who feel everything is political. They should just relax. --Mkill 20:56, 8 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The government does use protectionist policies regarding movies; it's a matter of debate in the run-up to the possible free-trade agreement with the US. I'm going to abridge the slightly redundant part about the korean goverment not subsidising entertainment exports (it feels mroe like a pre-emptive defence than factual, anyhow)

--Cruci 20:31, 19 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Someone is very determined to change the romanization of this word to "Hanryu," both here and in South Korea's article. Please note that under both the Revised Romanization of Korean and the McCune-Reischauer system, the ㄴㄹ sequence is represented by "ll." Thus, even though the word is made up of han + ryu, the compound is correctly romanized as hallyu ... which also correctly represents the Korean pronunciation. -- Visviva 07:57, 17 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I've noticed a lot of K-POP songs and their lyrics contain a lot of English, including even their BAND name! Fin KL is a Korean band; so why is it in English (even if it supposedly doesn't make sense in English to begin with)? Has Korea been Americanized just as Hong Kong, China, and Japan has??

It seems like everything I see, from their lyrics, to their band name, to their performances... It all contains English -- what happenned? Is this common in Korea / K-POP, because I see this happening in Chinese and Japanese culture just as much. It's kind of depressing. 165.196.149.50 18:24, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

Seeing this is a discussion page, I can speaking my mind. I believe the English naming convention is caused by the Korean entertainment system's ultimate goal of reaching the western market. There are several problems with using Korean words when pushing entertainment products to the west.

One, there is a problem with romanization. Reading other Korean articles, there always seem to be a fight between individuals who want to push their method of romanization. As a result, what you'd end up with are several variations of names for just one Korean drama or song. No two groups of people can settle on any given romanized name. And this would create a marketing nightmare.

Two, cultural identification. To explain cultural ID as an American, Americans specifically are generally turned off on anything Asian. Even if a product is pure Asian, most people won't try it unless it visually and culturally appeals to them. For example, the Japanese super hero show Power Rangers had to be re-written and re-filmed to include non-Asian people. Although there are over one million Koreans living in the U.S. alone, trying to sell a Korean TV show or CD using anything other than English names is very difficult to do. Even in Hong Kong, the korean wave is huge, and a large majority of people there speak and read English. I believe the execs in Korea have figured all of this out, so just about every drama has an official English name, along with the original Korean name.

The use of English is also happening in Japan, but for a different reason. In Japan, English is considered very cool. Many of the Japanese entertainers try to use English in many of their artistic works because right now it is the kakkoi thing to do. One of my friends, Ito Yuna, is an American, and is currently working in Japan as recording artist for SONY. People in Japan are always asking her to speak in English just so that they can hear what English spoken by a native speaker sounds like. Other than the kakkoi aspect, you don't see the Japanese use English for marketing purposes simply because they're not adimate about marketing their products in the west like the Koreans. Groink 01:03, 14 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe there's another reason: a female Chinese college student friend told me that she watches Korean dramas mainly because she believes the men are very good looking. (I guess in contrast to those in Chinese dramas?). Badagnani 05:26, 24 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

One of the reasons for the growing Korean wave is the influx of good looking actors. K-dramas are mostly aimed at women although it is spreading among older male generations. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.238.19.22 (talk) 00:00, 3 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think I can find a place where IPA is needed in this article, is it ok to remove it? --A10203040 05:55, 31 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Go ahead.--Ryoske 10:45, 31 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The name as in Chinese was already used in Hong Kong some years before 2001, when the radio programme 韓流襲港 was launched on the Supercharged 881 channel. Was it really coined by journalists from Beijing as late as 2001? — Instantnood 20:53, 16 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The structure of the article is okay but it is full of statements that absolutely must have citations, especially in the "current situation" section. Almost every sentence there could needs a citation or should be rewriten without such specific examples. Also there is too much opinion and too many opinion-based general statements in the article, statements about buffed Koreans, Koreans being considered the Italians of Asia, Asians audiences (which?) being cautious of western culture's "corrosive" influence and sharing the "same issues" as South Koreans. All of these statements about "Asians" and "Asian audiences" (billions of people BTW) are far too general and unreliable, especially considering they are all uncited. A little rewrite would do this article a lot of good; stick to facts, cite sourced statements and figures, and leave out the broad statements or put them into some sort of context. --Dreko 01:26, 7 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

"A hearty diet and two years of forced military duty, industry leaders and fans insist, have also resulted in young South Korean men having the most impressive physiques in Asia."

This statement is chauvinistic nonsense. First of all, two years of compulsory service doesn't guarantee anything, especially if it consists of clerical duty. Secondly, I would hardly consider Korean portions necessarily hearty (I'm Korean, by the way). It's chauvinistic lies like this that garner the ire of other Asians. No wonder we're ridiculed by so many other nationalities. Besides, Korea's time in the sun, like Japan, is limited. This article is a travesty--please rewrite it.

Nonsense? Far from it. The compulsory duty is designed to turn young boys into men and prepare them for war. One of the attracting qualities, among women, are toughness with a soft side(so to speak). Most physiques require more than 2 years military training to develop. By the way the above commentor is not Korean, what he is saying is common anger among other Asian men who become marginalized because of the Korean men in hallyu. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.238.19.22 (talk) 00:02, 3 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Korean culture or Korean wave is mostly Asia, North America, and Southeast Asia. Regarding to Mexico. Tell you a truth as Korean. Who cares. Mexico isn't really important for Korea compared to Asia, North America, and Southeast Asia. So all you Mexicans must chill. Korean drama's aren't playing in Mexican Media again who cares.

Even in Mexico -- land of the telenovela -- a flock of local women stood outside South Korean President Roh Moo Hyun's hotel during a recent visit, holding placards with Korean stars' names

Who the heck writed this? I'm a Mexican and I can say that Korean dramas (or anything that came from Korea) aren't popular nor very well known in my country (In fact, Mexican TV channels prefers to broadcast a Japanese or Chinese TV series rather than a Korean TV series, because Koreans have a very poor reputation in Mexico)I will proceed to delete this lines. --Luisedgarf 04:39, 23 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Interestingly, that was actually a copyright violation from this Washington Post article. So thanks for removing it; I've removed the rest. Of course, the matter of copyright is separate from the question of whether the information is true or not. Not only the Washington Post, but also the Chosun Ilbo have reported this: see [1]. So absent some sources to the contrary, this does appear to be true. -- Visviva 14:35, 23 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Also of interest might be this Mexican fan club. -- Visviva 14:55, 23 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Weird, because I haven't seen any Korean dramas in Mexican TV, maybe it could be a fan club created by Mexican-Koreans fans. --Luisedgarf 19:06, 24 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

This article is a bit more detailed in how its becoming popular in latin America.http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/nation/2008/03/229_12812.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.238.165.215 (talk) 08:37, 12 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Gives a short summary about how Hallyu K-pop achieved its status today, and includes criticism of Hallyu-era performers, e.g. that they're simply "dancing machines". All in English.

http://www.koreaherald.co.kr/SITE/data/html_dir/2005/11/16/200511160037.asp

- Pandacomics 02:38, 5 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

http://www.allkpop.com/index.php/news_rumors_full/se7en_prepares_for_failure/

Se7en has canceled all events in Korea and Japan in 2008 for his U.S. Debut. Many are skeptical that he will fail, and it isn't clear whether he is just taking one of his old albums and putting it in English or is making a whole new album. But either way, could Se7en's US debut be attributed to Hallyu hitting the United States? Xatticus 17:56 22 January, 2008 (UTC)

Its true. In addition, BoA will be debuting in America soon as well. Plus both Wondergirls and Lee Hyori were featured in Perez Hilton's blog. I think these (or similar) events should be wrtten under a subheading called "Hallyu in America" or something.. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 119.224.17.226 (talk) 06:22, 17 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I am getting the feeling that there are alot of asian men(not korean) who are jealous of the success of hallyu and that they feel like they are being marginalized and called inadequate. I mention this because some of the article consists of cheap rationalizations of why its popular, with an underlying msg that it is nothing. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.238.19.22 (talk) 00:14, 3 March 2008 (UTC) I don't think asian male are jelous of korean wave, not in general, maybe some but its actually good for asian, we are now have more choice not only from the west, actually korean has lifted up asian male reputation in physical attractiveness from western point of view[reply]

alot of those korean - celeb fan website were not made by korean but by chinese, hongkongnese, or taiwanese, they even promoted those to the western audience thru youtube. But there is problem arises coming from korean themselves that getting arogan, starting to feel more superior than other asian, thus creates conflicts

The image File:My Sassy Girl Movie Poster.jpg is used in this article under a claim of fair use, but it does not have an adequate explanation for why it meets the requirements for such images when used here. In particular, for each page the image is used on, it must have an explanation linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page. Please check

• That there is a non-free use rationale on the image's description page for the use in this article.
• That this article is linked to from the image description page.

This is an automated notice by FairuseBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. --13:10, 6 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I've removed these two images from the article, and not, I believe, for the first time. These are both non-free images, and per WP:NFC the article will need more than just a passing mention to allow their use here. PC78 (talk) 16:06, 6 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Also, all imagery should be used in context. To place images into an article and not even write about it, or somehow fit it into the article???? Doesn't make sense. Groink (talk) 02:19, 7 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

This article REALLY overestimates the popularity of Korean culture outside of East and SE Asia. To describe how far Korean culture has gone in parts outside of these two regions, you should really use more modest terms.

Boxwineinacup (talk) 01:11, 19 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I found that Turkey is another country that have extensively imported Korean TV series, but where is the information? --Korsentry 02:03, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

This article is way too biased in the sense that it makes Korean Wave sound as popular as was the Beatles. I have never heard a single person ever speak of or mention any K-pop or korean melodramas outside the internet. I have never turned on the radio and heard any Korean hits. Jprichey (talk) 07:30, 29 March 2009 (UTC)jpr[reply]

I'm guessing you are from Japan? so you really didn't take interest on Korean wave? then why did you bother to post here? K-pop is most popular asian pop ever spread world wise. Much more than any Japanese pops.--Korsentry 04:50, 2 April 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by KoreanSentry (talk • contribs)

Oh brother... Every Korean I ever run into, they ALWAYS use the Japanese as a baseline. Why can't your people rely on yourselves, instead of the constant comparisons to the Japanese? Comments like the above add no credibility to your cause. You assumption that Jprichey is Japanese is based on what? Your hatred towards them? That's what many of us outsiders see of the Koreans and this "wave" - an attempt to make up in a short span of time for the centuries of always being crapped on by everyone - from the Japanese, Chinese, and even your your neighbors in the north. You guys even bring your "business" to an international baseball game! As for the pop music crack, name one Korean national who cracked into the American Billboard Top-40. The Japanese already did this twice: Kyu Sakamoto and Pink Lady. Just because the Koreans attempt to flood the world with music does not mean any one of them are accepted. And FYI, I'm Filipino. Groink (talk) 22:01, 3 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed. The lead is one-sided in that it is too evidently wanting to present a picture of a rising tide of Koreanness spilling over in ever more parts of the world. Korea.net as main source does not present a reliable third-party source, either. Gun Powder Ma (talk) 11:01, 20 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Here's what's going on... Fans of Korean culture truly believe that flooding the world with its culture is the key. However, as I tried to point out earlier, they're not masters in anything - not acting, not music, not food, not even Confucianism - none of them. That's basically what this entire article is saying - we're flooding the world with all this stuff Korean, and that's all that really matters. By comparison, I have people telling me that Microsoft Windows is the number-one platform because there are hundreds more applications available than Mac OS X. It is the same ideology! It isn't the quantity - it is the QUALITY that matters. For me to be convinced that Korea has indeed taken over the world, I'd like them to start becoming mainstream... Win some acting awards like the Oscars. Win some Grammys. Earn some platinum records. Have some of their songs break into the Billboard top-100. Have the Cartoon Channel air dubbed Korean cartoons. Let's see some translated Korean comic books hit the shelves at Barnes & Noble. Have Americans associate Asia more with Rain than Bruce Lee or Ken Watanabe. Flooding the world with Korean culture will not score them any points. If they're going to consistently compare themselves to the Japanese, at least make it so that at least more people know how to say "goodbye" in Korean than in Japanese. Groink (talk) 01:45, 22 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, I'm Korean but i also skeptical about so called term "Korean Wave". my country's several channels broadcast Chinese Fantasy Dramas or Japanese Anime and they gathered lots of fans. but, they are don't called as "Chinese wave" or "Japanese wave". i think the term "Korean Wave" is just political usage for tend to "Korea as Asian Cultural SuperPower" toward its nationals for encouarge them. i also don't think K-Pop or K-Drama are more popular than J-Pop or J-Drama. in my country, here is lots of J-pop and J-Drama fans and also lots of Anime or Manga fans. recently, Chinese Movie "Red Cliff" make big sale marks in Korea. Korean Cultural influence toward China or Japan？ that can't be matter for compared to Chinese and Japanese cultural influence toward Korea. for instance, Japanese Foods and Chinese Foods are very usual in Korea. Chinese Restaurant even seen in rural area. Japanese Foods such as Sushi, Ramen, Korokke, Japanese Curry, Tonkatsu, Udon, Taiyaki, Takoyaki... and others are dominantly popular in here South Korea than OWN TRADITIONAL CUISINES. 112.162.197.118 (talk) 16:55, 18 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

"？" is chinese unicode. Must you masquerade as a Korean? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.121.17.202 (talk) 08:39, 10 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

난 한국인이고 사실을 말했을 뿐인데요. 제 리플은 모두 사실이고, 따라서 애써 '한국인인 척 하는 중국인'이라고 물을 필요도 없을 것 같네요.

Actually, I'm Korean and i just tell truth of korea. and so, that comment 'Chinese pretended as Korean' don't needed. 112.162.197.118 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 08:20, 16 June 2009 (UTC).[reply]

And I'm telling you, "？" is chinese unicode. It doesn't matter if you're not Korean, just don't lie about it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.121.17.202 (talk) 06:18, 17 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Excuse me for interrupting your moron-fest, but Koreans also use Hanja. groink 22:02, 17 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

And I specifically mentioned chinese unicode, which uses totally different glyphs than korean unicode (including hanja). Thanks for playing though.

that's can't be proof that i'm chinese. I'm Korean and I just type 'ㄹ+한자+9'. btw, whether if I'm chinese, that's not matter to talk the article's POV. 112.162.197.118 (talk) 04:11, 26 June 2009 (UTC)112.162.197.118[reply]

that's no proof Korean Culture boomed in worldwide. i tripped several countries in Asia, but i can't find out Korean Culture. the term 'Korean Wave' is just trait. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 112.162.197.118 (talk) 16:19, 18 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Well clearly if you haven't come across this phenomenon this it surely doesn't exist! Your argument might be more palatable to readers if it included more than your personal observation, as important as it might seem to you. Just a thought. Thanks, 96.49.37.163 (talk) 23:36, 21 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Although I do agree that those thought do need to be cited, I also agree with the *.118 on the level that the content of the article makes it sound like every corner you go turn on in the Philippines or Malaysia, you're going to find Korean stuff. What the article is missing is perspective - the ratio between the Korean wave and the rest of the native population, and *.118 is attempting to point that out. Rather than just say one's opinion doesn't validate anything, *.163 should be thinking bottom-up, and understand that more likely *.118 is not the only one. What the article needs to do is explain somehow that although the Korean wave is of a certain size, 1. each geographical market is different in ratio. For example, the popularity in the Philippines is of a level that differs from the United States. And 2. the ratio must be explained for each geographical market. Basically, the only reason this article exists is notability - and notability does not demonstrate the level of popularity in any given article. In all, you'll have more people like *.118 coming here and sounding off the idea that what they're observing themselves do not fit what they're reading here. groink 00:19, 22 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Take a look at the introduction section: "While popular throughout the Asian continent, its influence is strongest in East Asia, especially dominant in China, Japan and Southeast Asia, spreading to India, the Middle East, Central Asia, Iran, Israel, Turkey and Russia." It lacks the definition of "strongest"; it is purely subjective. I live in Hawaii, and I can tell you that the wave is here; you can't walk into most Japanese stores without finding the calendars, posters, portraits of the actors framed in glass, or the dramas showing on big screen TVs. But, I would not go as far as saying the wave in Hawaii is "strong" or anything like it to describe it, simply because there is no way to gauge it. And for each country in the "impact by country" section, it just lists a bunch of events. For the U.S. section, what kind of an effect did the festival make? Did it change the perspective among the natives about Korean culture? What about the debuts? What do debuts demonstrate? Exactly why is it so important to debut in the U.S.? These are the kinds of questions any college professor would ask regarding a college term paper. When you make any kind of a statement, there must a purpose for it: impact, influence, change... Otherwise, it is just a list of stuff. The entire article basically lacks the levels of context and perspective it needs to drive home these ideas. groink 02:01, 22 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]