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even Under Russian Law the accord is still illegal. why? because the document in Russian and Ukrainian both signed in august 24 1991 specifically says the following " ..... Территория Украины является неделимой и неприкосновенной.

Отныне на территории Украины имеют силу исключительно Конституция и законы Украины.

Настоящий Акт вступает в силу со дня его одобрения.

google translate it as " ...The territory of Ukraine is indivisible and inviolable.

From now on, exclusively the Constitution and laws of Ukraine are in force on the territory of Ukraine.

This Act comes into force from the date of its approval."

inviolable means it cannot be removed any single part of land in this case further the document says "Территория Украины является неделимой и неприкосновенной.

Отныне на территории Украины имеют силу исключительно Конституция и законы Украины."

"from Now on, They are Valid exclusively on the territory of Ukraine Constitution and laws of Ukraine"

"Акт провозгласил неделимость и неприкосновенность территории Украины и объявил единственно действительными в республике Конституцию и законы Украины."

"The Act proclaimed the indivisibility and inviolability of the territory of Ukraine and declared the only valid Constitution and laws of Ukraine in the republic."

To see the official document here https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Акт_провозглашения_независимости_Украины & also here https://ru.wikisource.org/wiki/Акт_провозглашения_независимости_Украины

in another words this basically makes the referendum of 2014 invalid even under Russian law.

VERKHOVNA RADA OF UKRAINE

August 24, 1991

ВЕРХОВНАЯ РАДА УКРАИНЫ

24 августа 1991 года"

The section "Languages" refers to "peoples" and "ethnic communities", but apparently groups them by language (language spoken? language of their place of origin?), and includes internal links to articles about languages. I don't know what this section was meant to communicate, and since there are no sources cited, I have no way to find out. (These remarks do not relate to the first paragraph of the section, which states that Russian is the main language, and includes a reference.) Cnilep (talk) 03:37, 30 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Please add : Crimeans face persecutions from the majority thank you — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.196.188.16 (talk) 23:03, 5 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

No. Provide a Reliable Source.104.169.22.138 (talk) 15:24, 10 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

This article skips from 63 BC to the ninth century AD. There must be something to report during that millennium! Richard75 (talk) 20:00, 8 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

In the, "Russian Federation (de facto since 2014)" sub-section of the, "History" section, please change, "A 2014 referendum on joining Crimea with Russia was supported by a 96.7% of voters with 83.1% turnout according to official counts, though it was boycotted by many loyal to Ukraine and denounced as illegitimate by Western governments" to, "A 2014 referendum on merging Crimea with Russia was supported by 96.7% of voters with a 83.1% turnout according to official counts, although it was boycotted by many loyal to Ukraine and denounced as illegitimate by Western governments." to make better sense-2409:4071:4E88:2BCB:B5C7:91DB:1DF9:8A77 (talk) 23:51, 22 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

 Done Extraordinary Writ (talk) 00:30, 24 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The polls that are sourced show 54%, which I wouldn't say is a "large majority" I can not change it but I would remove large and say (54%) because this is pretty misleading. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Greek Architect (talk • contribs) 01:26, 22 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

That question is about whether regions should be allowed to secede from Ukraine. For the annexation itself, it says "For their part, Crimeans seem content with their annexation by Russia. Overwhelming majorities say the March 16th referendum was free and fair (91%) and that the government in Kyiv ought to recognize the results of the vote (88%)." Mellk (talk) 13:48, 22 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Greek Architect: I agree with your assessment and have reworded the language to more accurately reflect the source. Popoki35 (talk) 07:43, 27 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Popoki35: What is contentious here? The poll is clear. Mellk (talk) 09:10, 27 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Moving content from this revision by Mellk here pending consensus on what should be included. The annexation survey results from this 2014 source have been used to make broad statements about the general thought among Crimeans on their government. The 2020 source cited is behind a paywall. Could someone with access include a quote of the relevant material? I believe the 2014 source is pretty old for describing broad current thought and should perhaps be attributed/written about more carefully.

@Mellk: The way it's being written about is less clear. Popoki35 (talk) 09:23, 27 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Note my edit was in response to your edit that had the edit summary "closer to source". I did not include the mention of the poll in the first place and don't really have an opinion on whether it belongs the lead or not. Mellk (talk) 09:41, 27 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I think if someone can illuminate what the 2020 source adds to the discussion it will be easier to know what should be included in the lead. Popoki35 (talk) 09:57, 27 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

If you opened up the library for me: thank you. Here's what I would propose based on the 2020 source: "A 2019 survey with a response rate of 54% indicated a majority of Crimean residents support Russian governance, with approval for the 2014 referendum outcome at 84% among Russians, 77% among Ukranians, and 52% among Tatars.^[1]" Popoki35 (talk) 10:47, 27 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I think that is OK. I am not sure if it belongs in the lead but I am not against. Perhaps can have other polls included in the body and they are summarised in lead. I know there was a 2014 Gallup poll and 2015 GfK poll. Mellk (talk) 11:09, 27 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I tend to agree about it not fitting the lead since the article doesn't go into depth about it yet. I put the content in Crimea#Politics for now. Popoki35 (talk) 11:44, 27 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

90% of the population of Crimea was Muslim before the Crimean Tatar Genocide by Stalin. More info about this period of Crimean history needs to be included in the article. 176.55.110.166 (talk) 20:03, 2 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

185.6.111.106 (talk) 15:40, 7 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

To change the word «controlled» on occupated as it is more appropriate and clear explanation

 Not done: The work "Controlled" appears multiple times in the article. You need to provide the quote from a sentence so we know whereabouts in the article you want it changed. MadGuy7023 (talk) 15:48, 7 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 8 September 2022 and 1 December 2022. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Zihao Wang(Clement) (article contribs).

— Assignment last updated by Zihao Wang(Clement) (talk) 05:56, 14 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

"Disputed" means there is a meaningful dispute about something. In this case, the condemnation of the Russian actions by the international community and by experts on international law is very clear. Also, the section tells the story of the annexation in a way very close to the Russian narrative. Rsk6400 (talk) 08:31, 17 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The section presents the elections under Russian occupation as meaningful, while in fact they were far from free. Rsk6400 (talk) 13:07, 17 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Crimea is in Ukraine, sure as Gotland is in Sweden. Can't we reflect this in the opening line? Does Wikipedia always have to feed the fringe view that Crimea is somehow "disputed" purely because one bully nation has occupied it illegally? --Billy Fiddle (talk) 17:36, 3 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I understand how the anger at this horrible invasion can tempt people to abandon NPOV, but it is still a valuable policy for Wikipedia as a whole. That Crimea is currently occupied by Russian soldiers and has MPs in the Russian parliament is not fringe. We should deal with this topic in as neutral way as possible, even if - particularly if - there's a war on. JASpencer (talk) 12:14, 4 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

It might be an idea to take this to the noticeboard for WP:NPOV. It may be that an exception will be made because of administrators' dislike of Putin's actions, but a breach of WP:NPOV is probably not something that should be decided purely on this talk page. JASpencer (talk) 12:20, 4 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

JASpencer, you reverted two edits of mine, the second one without a valid reason. I removed the claim that most inhabitants are ethnic Russians because it was based on a source citing the Russian census, which I consider an unreliable source.

Concerning the question whether Crimea is part of Ukraine: I had no intention to breach NPOV, and I don't think we should ever breach NPOV. But NPOV means reporting what reliable sources say, and I don't think there are RS claiming that Crimea is "de facto" a part of Russia. If there are, I'll be happy to learn something new. Regarding "anger": I think the best answer to Putin's lies is to stick to WP guidelines, i.e. correctly reporting what RS say. Rsk6400 (talk) 15:40, 4 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

A few issues here. First, if an exception is made based on the concerted views of admins, that would set the project's face against the policy guidelines it purports to abide by. Also, there is no source "reliable" or "unreliable" claiming that Crimea is de facto Ukrainian. They say it is de jure Ukraine, but none claim that Kiev controls the peninsula. Finally, there is no such ting as "correctly reporting what RS say". It's correct or it is RS. Having engaged in a drawn-out bitter discussion that was shut down per NOTAFORUM a good while back, it was never a case when discerning "reliable" from "unreliable" that block 1 was "truthful" and block 2 was "untruthful". It was a case of lining up all of the sources, splitting them apart based on what they report, and then looking for distinctions within the preferred set. When this becomes impossible globally, special pleading becomes the order of the day to keep block 2 "unreliable" and block 1 "reliable" with one of two outliers from block 1 eventually being depreciated for other reasons. But anyone to claim that block 1 is "truthful" means to be claiming what the truth is before reading it in sources, and then ticking those who agree with you with "pass" or "fail" stickers per the pre-determined bias. In summary, one's editing expectations are that he should report what RS says, and not report what Non-RS says: i.e. on talk pages, nobody should be claiming that something is "true" because RS says so, just that RS says so and therefore only that can go onto the article (provided RS is the be-all-and-end-all which it isn't always). It is circular reasoning anyhow (begging the question), a fallacy, so nobody should be using talk space to claim something is "true". The world's coverage outside of corporate media, state-owned western outlets (eg. BBC, VOA, etc.), the voices of the regimes of the collective west and their clients outside, and commentators/self-proclaimed "experts" sympathetic to the western selling points do not back the western narrative over Crimea (and the whole post-2014 Ukrainian crisis) exactly the same way as each other. At the moment, this alternative block has been curtailed and even silenced in some quarters by organisations who dictate in advance from whom its subjects are allowed to know about Ukraine, and English Wikipedia is no exception. Though given how easily they dismantle myths originating from so-called "RS" (oftentimes from passages where RS has gone into hyperbole and spoken the quiet bit out loud), you can see why so many predisposed editors hasten to "not consider Russian sources reliable". That's all I wish to say here in response to the contributions on this thread. --Coldtrack (talk) 19:18, 4 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Next time, please read WP:DUE before commenting. See also WP:TLDR. Rsk6400 (talk) 19:40, 4 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

TLDR is a personal choice. DUE is not that simple for one, not that I was arguing for alternative media, and it sure doesn't form an honest basis as to how RS is identified. That much is arbitrary and varies across Wkipedia languages. I learnt Russian before I learnt English so I know only too well. --Coldtrack (talk) 20:01, 4 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The first sentence of WP:DUE speaks of "correctly reporting what RS say", only in other words. If you want to criticize WP rules, this is not the right place to do so. Rsk6400 (talk) 20:15, 4 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

"Reporting what RS say" will suffice then. If it's "incorrectly" reported then it's not what RS is saying. You however have crossed the rubicon and claimed that Putin has at some stage "lied" (your words). You said this in talk and not on the mainspace, so this carries the burden of proof, and not something you get to demonstrate has been proven based on "RS" reporting so (that would invoke a fallacy called confirmation bias). My own elderly parents are have taken refuge in Russia all the way from Lvov (Lviv) as we speak. They are not there to flee from Russians but from our homegrown lunatics. --Coldtrack (talk) 21:28, 4 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

<redact PA>