Cannabis Ruderalis

Content deleted Content added
Funeral (talk | contribs)
Funeral (talk | contribs)
Undid revision 178529297 by Funeral (talk)
Line 85: Line 85:


==Sound==
==Sound==
In 1999, the [[industrial metal]] song "[[Oh My God (Guns N' Roses song)|Oh My God]]" was released on the ''[[End of Days (1999 film)|End of Days]]'' soundtrack. It featured current Guns N' Roses members [[Axl Rose]], [[Dizzy Reed]], [[Robin Finck]], [[Chris Pitman]] and [[Tommy Stinson]], along with former members [[Paul Tobias]] and [[Josh Freese]], who have since left the band. [[Dave Navarro]] and Gary Sunshine also recorded guitar parts for the song. "Oh My God" was unpopular upon its release, <ref name="NY Times" /> and was described by [[All Music Guide]] as "a less than satisfying comeback". <ref name="AMG-EoD">{{cite web|url=http://wc02.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&token=&sql=10:fxfrxqwkld0e|title=All Music Guide: End of Days - Overview|accessdate=2006-11-17|author=Erlewine, Stephen|publisher=''[[All Media Guide]]''}}</ref> The sound of ''Chinese Democracy'' was often reported to be industrial rock music similar to [[Nine Inch Nails]] and [[Ministry (band)|Ministry]], a style that Rose had long been a fan of. However, in a 2001 interview with an Argentine radio station, Rose stated the album wasn't industrial, and would vary in styles:
In 1999, "Oh My God" was released on the ''[[End of Days (1999 film)|End of Days]]'' soundtrack. It featured current Guns N' Roses members [[Axl Rose]], [[Dizzy Reed]], [[Robin Finck]], [[Chris Pitman]] and [[Tommy Stinson]], along with then-members rhythm guitarist [[Paul Tobias]] and drummer [[Josh Freese]]. [[Dave Navarro]] and Rose's guitar instructor [[Gary Sunshine]] also did guitar work on this industrial-sounding track.
{{cquote|It is not industrial, the closest thing to that was perhaps "Oh My God", but there are some songs that won't be on the album that were this way. There will be all kinds of styles, many influences as blues, mixed in the songs. <ref name="HTGTH">{{cite web|url=http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/articles/showarticle.php?articleid=38
|title=Axl interview Rock & Pop FM Argentina|publisher=Rock & Pop FM|date=[[2001-01-22]]|accessdate=2007-11-17}}</ref>}}


Former Guns N' Roses guitarist [[Slash (musician)|Slash]] is reported to have left the band in large part because of the change in musical direction, which at the time was reported to be industrial rock music similar to [[Nine Inch Nails]], a style that Rose had long been a fan of. Replacing [[Slash (musician)|Slash]] was [[Buckethead]], who also left the band in 2004. However, in a 2001 interview, Rose stated the album wasn't industrial, and would vary in styles:<ref>http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/articles/showarticle.php?articleid=38</ref>
In 2003, DJ [[Eddie Trunk]] spoke about the demo of "I.R.S." which was leaked on his radio show:
{{cquote|It reminded me of Use Your Illusion-era stuff, with some modern flairs to it. The song had a loop track in the beginning, but then, when it kicked in, it was that same dramatic Guns N' Roses hard rock. <ref name="MTV Trunk" />}}


{{cquote|It is not industrial, the closest thing to that was perhaps "Oh My God", but there are some songs that won't be on the album that were this way. There will be all kinds of styles, many influences as blues, mixed in the songs.}}
During the launch party for [[Korn]]'s 2006 tour, Rose conducted an interview with ''[[Rolling Stone]]'', he told the magazine:
{{cquote|It's a very complex record, I'm trying to do something different. Some of the arrangements are kind of like [[Queen (band)|Queen]]. Some people are going to say, 'It doesn't sound like Axl Rose, it doesn't sound like Guns N' Roses.' But you'll like at least a few songs on there. <ref name="RS2006-01-13" />}}


The songs which the band performed during the 2001-2002 tour varied heavily in sound. "The Blues" and "Madagascar" were "[[November Rain]]"-esque ballads, while "Rhiad and the Bedouins" and "Silkworms" are more influenced by the [[industrial rock|industrial]] sound, with synths, drum beats and loops. Rose said in an interview during the 2002 [[Chinese Democracy Tour]] that the band had yet to bring out their "big guns" with regards to songs they had played from the album.
In a ''[[Rolling Stone]]'' article in 2006, former [[Skid Row (heavy metal band)|Skid Row]] frontman [[Sebastian Bach]] described the album as "epic" and "mind-blowing" and added:
{{cquote|It’s a very cool album - it’s badass with killer screams, killer guitar riffs, but it’s got a totally modern sound. The word for it is ‘grand.’ It’s fucking epic. He’s reinvented himself yet again.<ref name="DiS-Bach" />}}


On [[January 13]] [[2006]], Rose spoke about the album at [[Korn]]'s tour launch party:<ref name="RS2006-01-13" />
Bach also described a song entitled "Sorry":
{{cquote|It's a very complex record, I'm trying to do something different. Some of the arrangements are kind of like [[Queen (band)|Queen]]. Some people are going to say, 'It doesn't sound like Axl Rose, it doesn't sound like Guns N' Roses.' But you'll like at least a few songs on there.}}
{{cquote|There’s this one song called ‘Sorry’ that’s almost like [[doom metal]] with Axl singing really clean over this grinding, slow beat that is fucking mean, I cannot get it out of my head. <ref name="DiS-Bach" />}}


Bach has also described the album as having "the rawness and the power of ''[[Appetite for Destruction]]'', but it also has the grandiosity of '[[November Rain]]'." <ref name="RS-2007-09-26">{{cite web
In a ''[[Rolling Stone]]'' article in 2006, former [[Skid Row (heavy metal band)|Skid Row]] frontman [[Sebastian Bach]] described the album as "mind-blowing" and added:<ref name="RSBach">{{cite web
| url = http://www.rollingstone.com/rockdaily/index.php/2007/09/26/proof-axl-rose-does-go-to-the-studio-photo-with-sebastian-bach/
| url = http://www.rollingstone.com/rockdaily/index.php/2006/10/18/exclusive-more-juicy-chinese-democracy-tidbits
| title = Exclusive: More Juicy "Chinese Democracy" Tidbits
| title = Proof Axl Rose Does Go to the Studio: Photo With Sebastian Bach
| accessdate = 2007-11-17
| accessdate = 2007-01-08
| date= 2007-09-26
| date= 2006-10-18
| work = Rolling Stone}}</ref>
| work = Rolling Stone}}</ref>
{{cquote|It’s a very cool album—it’s badass with killer screams, killer guitar riffs, but it’s got a totally modern sound. The word for it is ‘grand.’ It’s fucking epic. He’s reinvented himself yet again.}}

Sebastian also described a song entitled "Sorry":<ref name="RSBach" />
{{cquote|There’s this one song called ‘Sorry’ that’s almost like [[doom metal]] with Axl singing really clean over this grinding, slow beat that is fucking mean, I cannot get it out of my head.}}


==Leaks==
==Leaks==

Revision as of 16:55, 17 December 2007

Template:Future album

Untitled

Chinese Democracy is the name of the upcoming[1] sixth studio album by Guns N' Roses. When released, it will be the band's first album of original studio material since the simultaneous release of Use Your Illusion I and II in September 1991. According to a 2007 interview with Sebastian Bach, it will be the first of a trilogy of new albums.[2]

Track listing

Although the entire track listing for Chinese Democracy has not been confirmed, various members of the band and people associated with the band have confirmed certain tracks which will appear on the album. All but one of the confirmed tracks have been played live during the Chinese Democracy Tour, the exception being "Sorry". Demos have leaked of all but one of the tracks, with "Sorry" being the exception.

Confirmed for Chinese Democracy
Title Source Number of demos
"Better" Axl Rose, 2006 [3] 2
"Chinese Democracy" Official press release, 2006 [4] 1
"I.R.S." Official press release, 2006 [4] 3
"Madagascar" Official press release, 2006 [4] 1
"Sorry" Sebastian Bach, 2006 [5] 0
"The Blues" Axl Rose, 2006 [3] 1
"There Was a Time" Axl Rose, 2006 [3] 3

Sound

In 1999, "Oh My God" was released on the End of Days soundtrack. It featured current Guns N' Roses members Axl Rose, Dizzy Reed, Robin Finck, Chris Pitman and Tommy Stinson, along with then-members rhythm guitarist Paul Tobias and drummer Josh Freese. Dave Navarro and Rose's guitar instructor Gary Sunshine also did guitar work on this industrial-sounding track.

Former Guns N' Roses guitarist Slash is reported to have left the band in large part because of the change in musical direction, which at the time was reported to be industrial rock music similar to Nine Inch Nails, a style that Rose had long been a fan of. Replacing Slash was Buckethead, who also left the band in 2004. However, in a 2001 interview, Rose stated the album wasn't industrial, and would vary in styles:[6]

It is not industrial, the closest thing to that was perhaps "Oh My God", but there are some songs that won't be on the album that were this way. There will be all kinds of styles, many influences as blues, mixed in the songs.

The songs which the band performed during the 2001-2002 tour varied heavily in sound. "The Blues" and "Madagascar" were "November Rain"-esque ballads, while "Rhiad and the Bedouins" and "Silkworms" are more influenced by the industrial sound, with synths, drum beats and loops. Rose said in an interview during the 2002 Chinese Democracy Tour that the band had yet to bring out their "big guns" with regards to songs they had played from the album.

On January 13 2006, Rose spoke about the album at Korn's tour launch party:[3]

It's a very complex record, I'm trying to do something different. Some of the arrangements are kind of like Queen. Some people are going to say, 'It doesn't sound like Axl Rose, it doesn't sound like Guns N' Roses.' But you'll like at least a few songs on there.

In a Rolling Stone article in 2006, former Skid Row frontman Sebastian Bach described the album as "mind-blowing" and added:[7]

It’s a very cool album—it’s badass with killer screams, killer guitar riffs, but it’s got a totally modern sound. The word for it is ‘grand.’ It’s fucking epic. He’s reinvented himself yet again.

Sebastian also described a song entitled "Sorry":[7]

There’s this one song called ‘Sorry’ that’s almost like doom metal with Axl singing really clean over this grinding, slow beat that is fucking mean, I cannot get it out of my head.

Leaks

In September 2003, radio DJ Eddie Trunk played a new Guns N' Roses song titled "I.R.S." on his syndicated radio show Friday Night Rocks with Eddie Trunk. This was at the insistence of his in-studio guest Mike Piazza, who had apparently received a CD in the mail containing the track. Trunk described the song as "...Use Your Illusion-era stuff, with some modern flares to it. The song had a loop track in the beginning, but then, when it kicked in, it was that same dramatic Guns N' Roses hard rock."[citation needed] The band's management issued a cease-and-desist order against Trunk, leading him to strip replays of his broadcast of both the song and references to it.

In April 2005, an excerpt of the song "I.R.S." leaked on the Internet. The band's management referred to it as a "low quality demo," but it was most likely a recording of Eddie Trunk's broadcast of the song from 2003. Eddie Trunk confirmed that "Better" and "Catcher in the Rye" were not on the CD he played "I.R.S." from in 2003.

In February 2006, full studio demos of the songs "Better", "Catcher in the Rye", "I.R.S.", and "There Was a Time" leaked online. Brian May confirmed on his blog that he recorded guitar for the "Catcher in the Rye" demo in 1999.[8]

In addition, there were three additional, unique leaks during three different shows on Maxim Radio (Sirius Satellite Radio). The first leak was "Better" done by a caller on the Covino and Rich Show. The caller asked the personalities if they heard the song and then forced the song onto the radio. The next leak was of "Better" and "I.R.S." which was done by the Bower Show. The personalities mentioned getting the songs from a unique source stating no one else had or played the song "Better" yet on the radio. The final leak was of "Catcher in the Rye" during the Evan and Brian Show. This was the most unusual of them all. A caller name "Tommy" called and when asked to give a prediction on the air, decided to just play "Catcher in the Rye" without saying anything.

On February 20, 2007, a new version of the song "Better" was leaked onto the Internet. The song was confirmed real by Dizzy Reed. However, he also said it is not the final studio version.[9]

On March 28, 2007, a 7 second clip of the album's title track, "Chinese Democracy", was leaked on a GN'R fan website. The clip was removed within a few minutes of its discovery by GN'R fans. However, the song is still in circulation on other GN'R fan sites. The 7 second leak came after a 1 minute, 5 second long introduction for the song was leaked on the same website's main page. This introduction features underlying guitar parts with the voices of Chinese people before the song's main guitar riff is played one time towards the end of the introduction. The clips were leaked by the webmaster of the website they originally appeared on.

The next day, March 29, 2007 a full studio version of the song "Madagascar" leaked onto a GN'R fan website and is still in circulation. This track was acquired when a fan tricked the aforementioned webmaster, who had leaked parts of "Chinese Democracy" the previous day, into exchanging "Madagascar" for a fake demo of "Prostitute".

On May 4, 2007, three more tracks leaked from "Chinese Democracy"; the albums title track "Chinese Democracy", "The Blues" and an updated version of "I.R.S." All three tracks had previously been played live and the track "Chinese Democracy" had been partially leaked in March.

An updated version of "There Was a Time" was along the 4 songs sent and was leaked on May 6, 2007. A GN'R fan site had received a cease-and-desist order on May 3, 2007 with regards to leaked tracks.

Production and collaboration

Long time Guns N' Roses producer Mike Clink is reported to have worked on the album during its conception, as is Killing Joke member and Verve producer Youth. Songwriter and producer Moby turned down an offer to work on the album.

In 1997, Sean Beavan joined Rose in producing the album, which was at the time focused on industrial tracks. Beavan left the project in 1999, at which point former Queen producer Roy Thomas Baker was brought in to co-produce with Rose. Baker left the project in February 2002 after re-recording the album with intentions of producing a more epic sound. Rose then became sole producer of the project, allegedly re-recording the album yet again.

The band has also worked with numerous collaborators over the years, including guitarists Brian May and Dave Navarro. As mentioned above, Marco Beltrami and Paul Buckmaster worked on orchestral arrangements for the album.

NBA star Shaquille O'Neal rapped on a song with the band. He took a break from his own recording session and found Dizzy Reed and then drummer Josh Freese working in the same studio:[10]

I saw Guns N' Roses listed on the bulletin board in the lobby of the studio so I stuck my head in to check it out. They asked me to join them, so I started freestylin' over their track. It was the first time I ever performed with a rock group, and it felt good.

The collaboration was recorded, but will reportedly not be included on Chinese Democracy.

Composer Paul Buckmaster worked on arrangements for "Madagascar", "The Blues", "There Was a Time", and "Prostitute".

Rose said in a January 2006 interview with Rolling Stone that his favorite songs on the upcoming album are "Better", "There Was a Time", and "The Blues", which in turn have all been leaked and played live.[3]

In an August 2007 interview, Sebastian Bach confirmed he recorded backing vocals for the song "Sorry" at Electric Lady Studios in January 2007. [11]

On her official website, harpist Patti Hood has said she will appear on Chinese Democracy. Hood worked with Chris Pitman's project, Lusk, in the mid-1990s. [12]

Length

There has been some conflicting information about the length of the album. At London, Docklands UK in August 2002, in which Guns N' Roses played a set, Rose stated that the album was to contain eighteen songs with ten bonus tracks. Bassist Tommy Stinson said in a November 2004 interview that the album contained "ten or eleven" songs.

In December 2004, Guns N' Roses' manager Merck Mercuriadis became the CEO of Sanctuary Music Group. In January 2005, Rose signed a publishing deal with Sanctuary, which covered past and future work by Rose, including "dozens of new tracks Rose has recently recorded for Universal Music". [citation needed]

Recent interviews with a number of collaborators have fueled speculation about the number of songs/albums to be released: in an August 2007 interview, Sebastian Bach (who recorded background vocals in at least one song for the upcoming releases) is quoted as saying "I was at his (Rose's) house and he was playing me the new "Chinese Democracy" album — actually, there's more than one; there's, like, four." [13] Bach later confirmed that there were "like, four records" during a promotional radio interview in October 2007 for his solo album Angel Down.

Current status

According to a March 2005 New York Times article, production costs for the album have reached $13 million, making it probably the most expensive recording never to be released.[14] Mercuriadis, however, refuted the article in a letter and claimed that the newspaper's sources for the article had not been involved with the project for "six to nine years."[15]

Rose filed court papers on March 3 2006 to ask for "ownership of all creative works" by Guns N' Roses.[16] The band's then-manager Merck Mercuriadis stated, "This will not delay the new album—quite the opposite—tying up these loose ends allows us to get on with it."[citation needed]

A press release was issued on behalf of Rose on March 6 2006 in response to legal suits filed by former band members Duff McKagan and Slash. The press release lashed out at Slash:[17]

In October of 2005 Slash made an unannounced 5:30 AM visit to Axl Rose’s house. Not appearing to be under the influence, Slash came to inform Axl of the Velvet Revolver band members: 'Duff was spineless,' 'Scott was a fraud,' that he 'hates Matt Sorum' and that in this ongoing war, contest or whatever anyone wants to call it that Slash has waged against Axl for the better part of 10 years, that Axl has proven himself 'the stronger.' Based on his conduct in showing up at Rose’s home, Axl was hopeful that Slash would live up to his pronouncements that he wanted to end the war and move on with life. Unfortunately that did not prove to be the case.

Slash has since denied these claims in a radio interview.

On April 1, 2006, Spin.com posted a tongue-in-cheek April Fools' Day review of Chinese Democracy by Chuck Klosterman.[18]

On May 5, 2006, Axl Rose appeared on Friday Night Rocks with Eddie Trunk, stating that Chinese Democracy would finally be released in fall 2006 with an accompanying North American tour. The band has recently finished playing a summer tour in Europe and have started a North American Tour to promote the album.

According to current guitarist, Bumblefoot, Buckethead's parts have not been re-recorded. However, in an open letter from Merck Mercuriadis he mentioned that "Bumblefoot and Frank had all made important contributions to the album that made it even stronger".[19]

A 2006 press release regarding Guns N' Roses' Chinese Democracy Tour stated, "As for Guns N' Roses forthcoming Chinese Democracy album, the only comment at this time is that there are 13 Tuesdays left between now and the end of the year" (Tuesday being the day of the week on which all major label albums are released in the US). On October 5, 2006, a source close to Rolling Stone claimed that the album had a "firm release date of November 21, 2006."

In a 2006 interview with Rolling Stone, Guns N' Roses manager Mercuriadis once again stated that the album would be released that year, as well as stating (perhaps sarcastically) that it would appear on record shelves without the announcement of a release date. In the same article, Sebastian Bach stated that Axl had played the album in full to poolside guests in his mansion after the September 23 concert.

On Harley-Davidson's website, a promotional video was set to the unreleased song "Better". As of October 21, 2006 "Better" was replaced with "Paradise City". "Better" has yet to be put back on the commercial, although a November press release by Harley-Davidson stated that the version with "Better" would debut in "early November." As of 2007, "Better" had yet to be reinstated as the music for the advertisement.[20]

On December 14, 2006, Rose released a letter to fans, stating that the band had, for the first time, set a tentative release date, of March 6, 2007. In this letter, he also indicated that the band had dissolved its relationship with manager Merck Mercuriadis.

According to the January 7, 2007 edition of the Las Vegas Review-Journal, Rose was putting the final vocals down for Chinese Democracy, which he had been working on at the Palms recording studios.[21]

Since the new leak of "Better", Dizzy Reed has stated that it is not the final studio version. In that same statement, he indicated that the album is being mixed and will be out "soon."

On February 22, 2007, Del James gave a statement on the official website:[22]

The good news is that all of the recording for the album has been completed. Drummer Frank Ferrer and guitarist Ron "Bumblefoot" Thal integrated themselves into the recordings seamlessly and will have their presence felt.

On March 12, 2007, Dizzy Reed gave a statement on the official website:

For the record, absolutely none of the songs that have been leaked have come from the band or our organization. None of the songs that have been leaked are anything more than demo versions, works in progress. No final mixes.

The band has completed the 2007 leg of their Chinese Democracy Tour which began on June 2nd in Mexico and continued with dates in Australia, New Zealand and Japan. There has been no word on a follow-up tour or any more information regarding the release of the album.

In a 2007 interview, Bach claimed Rose had planned to have the album released by Christmas 2007, stating "I know Axl was very serious about putting something out before Christmas. He was talking to me about it. He was talking about finishing liner notes.". Bach also implied that Chinese Democracy's delay may be because of business problems: "I think there’s a lot of business shit that goes on with him. It's just not as easy. It's a little more complicated than people think. [23]

Personnel

Former members who may feature


Additional musicians who recorded parts for Chinese Democracy

Orchestral arrangements

Title conflicts

On April 1, 2003 (April Fool's Day), The Offspring announced that they would be naming their upcoming album Chinese Democrazy (You Snooze, You Lose). The Offspring lead singer Dexter Holland elaborated, "You snooze, you lose. Axl ripped off my braids, I ripped off his album title."[24] However, the Offspring album was eventually released under the title Splinter instead.

In early 2005, Nosferatu announced Chinese Democracy as the working title of their fifth studio album, but in October the same year, the band's website announced that the title had to be changed after a threat of legal action from Axl Rose's attorneys. The working title was then changed to The Long Lost Weekend, and it remains unknown which title the band will use, if they ever release another album.

References

  1. ^ Guns N' Roses' official website - "Axl Rose to appear on Sebastian Bach's new album, Angel Down"
  2. ^ Loud & Opinionated - Metal Edge Magazine
  3. ^ a b c d e Baltin, Steve (2006-01-17). "Axl Rose Breaks His Silence". Rolling Stone. Retrieved 2007-11-17. Cite error: The named reference "RS2006-01-13" was defined multiple times with different content (see the help page).
  4. ^ a b c "Guns N' Roses storm New York" (Press release). GunsNRoses.com. 2006-05-22. Retrieved 2007-11-17. {{cite press release}}: Check date values in: |date= (help)
  5. ^ Diver, Mike (2006-09-31). "New G'nR album: "almost like doom metal"". Drowned in Sound. Retrieved 2007-11-17. {{cite web}}: Check date values in: |date= (help)
  6. ^ http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/articles/showarticle.php?articleid=38
  7. ^ a b "Exclusive: More Juicy "Chinese Democracy" Tidbits". Rolling Stone. 2006-10-18. Retrieved 2007-01-08.
  8. ^ May, Brian (2006-03-02). "Catcher in the Rye, Chinese Democracy Leaks and Axl Rose". Brian's Soapbox. Retrieved 2007-01-08.
  9. ^ http://www.gnrdaily.com/news_detail.asp?id=565
  10. ^ "Plastic: Using Axl's Illusion". Plastic.com. 2007-02-24. Retrieved 2007-07-18.
  11. ^ http://www.roadrunnerrecords.com/blabbermouth.net/news.aspx?mode=Article&newsitemID=79104
  12. ^ [http://www.pattihood.net/html/resume.html Patti Hood's official website
  13. ^ http://www.roadrunnerrecords.com/blabbermouth.net/news.aspx?mode=Article&newsitemID=79104
  14. ^ Leeds, Jeff (2005-03-06). "The Most Expensive Album Never Made". The New York Times. Retrieved 2007-01-08.
  15. ^ "Guns N' Roses' Manager Manager Slams NY Times Over 'Rubbish' 'Chinese Democracy' Article". Blabbermouth.net. 2005-03-06. Retrieved 2007-01-08.
  16. ^ Grossberg, Josh (2006-03-07). "Axl Unloads on Ex-Gunners". Yahoo! Music. Retrieved 2007-01-08. {{cite web}}: Unknown parameter |coauthors= ignored (|author= suggested) (help)
  17. ^ "W. Axl Rose Response to Lawsuits". Gunsnroses.us. 2006-03-06. Retrieved 2007-01-08.
  18. ^ Klosterman, Chuck (2006-04-01). "Guns N' Roses, Chinese Democracy". SPIN.com. Retrieved 2007-01-09.
  19. ^ "An Open Letter From Merck, From Merck Mercuriadis". gunsnroses.us. 2006-12-15. Retrieved 2007-01-08.
  20. ^ "Black Sheep". Harley-Davidson. Retrieved 2007-01-08.
  21. ^ http://ultimate-guitar.com/news/upcoming_releases/axl_rose_putting_final_touches_on_chinese_democracy.html
  22. ^ http://web.gunsnroses.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20070222&content_id=a1&vkey=news&fext=.jsp
  23. ^ Rock My Monkey - Sebastian Bach Interview Retrieved on 4th December
  24. ^ D'Angelo, Joe (2003-04-01). "Guns N' Roses' Chinese Democracy Snatched By Offspring". MTV.com. Retrieved 2007-01-08.


Leave a Reply