The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 23:25, 12 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Judaism and pop and rock music[edit]

Judaism and pop and rock music (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log | edits since nomination)

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The article is called "Judaism and pop and rock music". Judaism is widely understood as the religion of the Jewish people. Despite this, the article has no actual information on the attitudes of Judaism the religion to pop and rock music, or really anything about the history of Jewish (pop/rock) music. It is also quite selective- it only includes ethnically Jewish artists (and here it explicitly excludes Israeli Jewish artists, despite claiming to include ethnically Jewish artists) and excludes people who have converted to Judaism and *should* be considered Jewish. The artists there are also predominantly Jews from the USA or Britain, with only a few from other places (for example, Serge and Charlotte Gainsbourg). I also don't understand the point of including pop and rock music together- Judaism and pop music, or Judaism and rock music could have worked, but why together? Ultimately, my argument is that this article is unhelpful to readers and is an example of WP:ARBITRARYCAT, part of WP:DEL#REASON. I think perhaps making a list article about "List of Jewish pop artists" or "List of Jewish rock artists" can be helpful, but I don't see any such precedent (no article called "List of American rock arists" or "List of French pop artists" exists). Jaguarnik (talk) 03:38, 3 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Music and Judaism. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 08:10, 3 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete. This article purports to be about "Judaism" and pop and rock music, yet most of it is devoted to a list of "pop, rock and hip-hop artists, singers and musicians of Jewish ethnicity", including many people who do not necessarily follow the religion of Judaism, yet with "people who converted to Judaism" specifically being excluded from the list. The actual influence of Judaism, the religion, as opposed to individuals of Jewish ethnicity, on rock and pop music, is hardly addressed within this article. --Metropolitan90 (talk) 00:00, 4 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Precedent does exist, in the form of List of Christian bands and artists by genre and its sub-lists, but there is a genre known as Christian rock (and maybe others - I'm no expert and haven't checked the sources). But that is no reason to keep this article. Sources would be needed to show that the music created by the artists was influenced by Judaism, rather than that they happen to be Jewish. Phil Bridger (talk) 09:40, 4 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Apparently there is such a thing as Jewish rock but it's in much the same vein as Christian rock; i.e. it's rock influenced by religious values. But the artists listed in Judaism and pop and rock music article are simply artists who happen to be ethnically Jewish with no mention on how Judaism influenced them. What I meant by precedent is that there are no lists as far as I know listing pop/rock artists by ethnicity; my apologies for not being clear.Jaguarnik (talk) 18:06, 4 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Lean Keep. I think the topic meets notability criteria. I would probably rename to List of Jewish Pop and Rock Musicians or something like that, as this is more of a list with a brief introductory paragraph as opposed to an article per se. I think Judaism in the title is misleading as this is an article about Jewishness qua ethnos, not Judaism qua religion. 2600:4040:90C5:8000:B11F:818B:48F1:A0FD (talk) 01:10, 5 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Not a bad idea, however, I'm not sure that a list of specifically Jewish pop and rock musicians is necessary in the first place, as it's extremely specific. What is the purpose in combining two seperate genres of music?Jaguarnik (talk) 01:49, 5 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 03:38, 10 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete I don't think something like this warrants its own article outside of one in a list format or even a category. It doesn't really explain the associations Judaism has with the two genres of music but rather Jewish musicians in notable bands. Waddles 🗩 🖉 17:45, 10 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete per Jaguarnik. Also, the criteria is unclear, verifiability is an issue, an article like this can't ever be fully comprehensive, and really? JSFarman (talk) 20:51, 12 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.