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Discuss this story
NOTE TO ALL and DISCLAIMER: material has been added to this story since Ragesoss wrote it (see editorial note) that I haven't personally checked; this is a rather partisan issue, and I encourage everyone to both follow up with statements made here to ensure their accuracy and to try to keep the Signpost story NPOV. I know that some of the editors who have worked on this, including myself, have also been involved in Foundation-l discussions. -- phoebe / (talk to me) 23:14, 16 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
"I deleted some things that I assumed would be undeleted after a discussion. I wanted us to take an approach that involved first deleting a lot of borderline things, and then bringing them back after careful case by case discussions." seems like we have a guideline on this - Wikipedia:Do not disrupt Wikipedia to illustrate a point. Which makes this 9 May 2010: Wales reduces his global privileges a good choice. JeepdaySock (AKA, Jeepday) 16:58, 11 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
The problem was that A. Jimbo mislead people about the reason for the deleions: citing laws, when he revealed two days later that he was acting for PR reasons. Nothing in his original draft policy or comments so much as mentions the media attacks until after he went on the deletion spree. B. Had a clear statement from the community that we felt erotic artworks should not be deleted - his draft policy had been edited to make that very clear. Jimbo edited out the consensus, replaced it with a "this applies to art too" comment, then went on a deletion spree. C. Jimbo handled things incredibly poorly. For instance, above we see him saying he deleted things that he assumed would be deleted. But here we find him saying "I have redeleted the image for the duration of the cleanup project. We will have a solid discussion about whether Commons should ever host pornography and under what circumstances at a later day - June 1st will be a fine time to start.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 17:31, 7 May 2010 (UTC)" - in other words, he refused to engage in discussion until he had finished deleting everything. Further, this was in the middle of " several dozen people explaining that, with Commons Delinker Bot, it's very hard to undelete files in use, as the images will need to be put back in to all sites by hand. - You get the idea. Adam Cuerden (talk) 22:39, 11 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I have two questions which I doubt will be answered to anyone's satisfaction. (1) Would Jimmy Wales have taken this extreme & sudden action had the criticism come from another broadcast organization than Fox? (It's not that much of a secret that he aligns his political beliefs with that "news" media.) And (2) Is it possible to recall WMF board members? The only person in this fracas who has acted worse than Wales is Ting Chen, whose comments in this matter betray an appalling lack of knowledge about how the projects actually work, & how to best support the activities of the volunteers. -- llywrch (talk) 05:26, 12 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I have suggested on occasion 'partly in jest' on the Main page Talk page when an image/topic has cauces 'wailing and gnashing of teeth' that there be forked main pages or similar - the ordinary one 'being reasonably vanilla' and the other also allowing adult themes/'very medical'/certain political topics etc which might cause annoyance (including to library blocking systems) on the first page and 'Random article' link. Could something of this nature be devised to deal with a particular group of WP critics? (And I know it will be 'much work to set up and outside my field.')
How would Nancy in Oliver Twist fit into the Fox viewpoint? Jackiespeel (talk) 13:02, 12 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I just realised: Every single one of Wales' actions make sense if Jimbo was trying to completely purge Commons of anything the least bit controversial to kill the story, figuring it could be brought back in a couple months. His statements lend strong support to this theory. Consider:
...He wanted to get Commons completely purged while attention was on it, then - and then only allow the restoration of encyclopedic material when attention was off it. In other words, this was the worst-thought-out PR stunt ever. Adam Cuerden (talk) 17:44, 12 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
It's not like there isn't enough porn on the internet anyway, and people are missing the more important fact, that all of those naked people are BLP and publicity rights time bombs under U.S. law. I'm totally okay with what Jimbo did, but I think Larry went overboard, and I'm still a huge Wikipe-tan fan. W.D.Ikon (talk) 04:03, 13 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
This possibly isn't the best place for a general discussion on this issue, but I think that a clean up of Commons sexual content was (and probably remains) long overdue. That said, I think that reducing Jimbo Wales permissions was also overdue given how mature Wikimedia now is, so this was a win-win. Nick-D (talk) 08:24, 13 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I agree to this because of the attutide I got when I tried to get images of nude children removed, I got comments such as "you cant stop the revoloution", well it appears that it has been stopped. If some of you remember I asked Jimbo to get in touch with me over the matter, in which he fully understood the point I was making, so I would like to thank Jimbo for doing this. Sophie(: 08:45, 13 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
"Wales indicated that he did not want any discussions to happen until everything he considered pornographic had been purged from Commons. [...] [He] specified June 1st as a date to begin discussions [...]" — wow. That's probably the most breathtaking part of this whole story yet; being bold and doing what you believe is right is one thing, but telling people that they are not allowed to even discuss matters? Maybe we should put Jimbo's picture on the "chutzpah" entry on Wiktionary. -- Schneelocke (talk) 10:48, 13 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
A fox-news-inspired, modern-day variant of american comstockery, affecting an international, culturally diverse community of Wikimedia projects. Delete the founder tag! --Asthma bronchiale (talk) 13:35, 16 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Perhaps Wikimedia should consider packing it's servers and move elsewhere.--HoneymaneHeghlu meH QaQ jajvam 21:29, 16 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Jimbo Wales said "I deleted some things that I assumed would be undeleted after a discussion. I wanted us to take an approach that involved first deleting a lot of borderline things, and then bringing them back after careful case by case discussions". Isn't that already in violation of interrupt to illustrate a point? OhanaUnitedTalk page 14:27, 17 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
French regard
File:Origin-of-the-World.jpg Vu de France, la guerre des ex-chefs et la croisade anti Wiki de 'Fox/Faux-news' semble assez dérisoire. Certains puritains voudraient purger le net, et aussi Wp, de toute image représentant le sexe. Ils en ont tellement peur et surfent sur la peur !... Ne leur donnez pas du grain à moudre. Pas d'ambiguité sur la pédophilie. Mais sur le reste : Résistez ! Faites bien la différence entre œuvre d'art et pornographie de mauvais aloi. Certaines représentations artistiques choqueront la loi américaine ? Et alors ? Wp est-elle destinée uniquement aux écoliers américains ? Vu de France cette croisade anti-sex (parce que je crois que c'est ce qu'il y a derrière) me fais marrer. Jean de Parthenay (talk) 20:24, 19 May 2010 (UTC) Et un cadeau, pour tout ceux qui aiment l'art.[reply]
Viewed from France, the war of ex-leaders and the crusade against Wiki by 'Fox / Faux News' seems pretty ridiculous. Some puritans would purge the net, and also Wp, off any picture of sex. They are so afraid of it and surfing on these fears! ... Don't give them food. Id est : No ambiguity about pedophilia. But let's make the difference between pornography and art work. Some artistic performances will shock the U.S. kids and what ? And then ? Is Wp intended for American schoolchildren only ? Seen from France this crusade against sex (because I think that's what's behind it) make me laugh. Jean de Parthenay ( talk ) 20:24, 19 May 2010 (UTC) And a gift from Courbet.