The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Sandstein 21:12, 11 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Serious Truth (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Seems to be claiming notability as a musician but sources only discuss his arrest and I don't think they're sufficient per WP:NOTNEWS. Fails WP:GNG, WP:NMUSIC and WP:ANYBIO. The editor whose username is Z0 14:43, 4 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Artists-related deletion discussions. Hhkohh (talk) 14:45, 4 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Authors-related deletion discussions. Hhkohh (talk) 14:45, 4 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. Hhkohh (talk) 14:45, 4 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Food and drink-related deletion discussions. Hhkohh (talk) 14:45, 4 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Music-related deletion discussions. Hhkohh (talk) 14:45, 4 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Events-related deletion discussions. Hhkohh (talk) 14:45, 4 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Business-related deletion discussions. Hhkohh (talk) 14:45, 4 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Massachusetts-related deletion discussions. Hhkohh (talk) 14:45, 4 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Arts-related deletion discussions. Hhkohh (talk) 14:45, 4 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• It passed the general notability guideline originally, that's why the page got approved in the first place. The subject is being a target of harassment by people who want to have a speedy deletion I have ome to figure out, somebody took the time to edit the page and make it look like slanderous and derogatory things were being said on it. You can check the edit history. I can provide at least 10-15 references that provide at least the stoppage of the speedy deletion process. This subject, having made music for and with Layzie Bone, Sean Price, Infamous Mobb, Termanology, Reks, and Buckwild aall of whom have wikipedia pages themselves and provided references to that in the very least provide somewhat proof of notability even if this person is not "famous" per se,not evveryone on wikipedia is a famous a list or b list celebrity. Just the fact that the subject and the page is under attack by trolls sent by celebrities goes to show the notability of this subject. That along with th enumerous newspaper references and published work at the very least rule out a speedy deletion. Chg1990 (talk) 02:07, 5 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I went on and checked the Serious Truth wikipedia page, and an unknown person who I am presuming is Z0 made edits on the bottom portion including false claims and accusations. Like was listed in the references, not only are there legitimate references to arrests as well as front page news articles from the eagle tribune to the New York Times but also reciepts from publishing companies publishing music and other published music with notable artists that also have legitimate wikipedia pages. This article was APPROVED and then someone went in and edited it afterwards with slanderous content and that's when it got put up for deletion. You can go check the edit history, anyone who edited the page who wasnt CHG 1990 was the one guilty of doing this Chg1990 (talk) 01:55, 5 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

also have published work proving to have worked with lots of notable artists as well. I will provide any reference needed. It got approved from the references I had in the first place, it only got nominated to be deleted once one of the hundreds of people targeting the subject for harassment by Talib Kweli edited the page. You guys can go check the edit history. I spent a month working on this page for a friend who i thought deserved the page and he is being targeted for harassment by celebrities to the point where they are going and editing his wikipedia page that I made for him and trying to get it deleted. That alone in itself should be a reference. Chg1990 (talk) 02:00, 5 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The article was already approved, there are multiple major news outlets for references as well as published work with major artists linked to their pages as well. What is wrong with the article? It passed all the guidelines, that's why it got approved in the first place. Now, after a day, someone tries to take it down? Chg1990 (talk) 00:54, 5 July 2018 (UTC)

There is a reference from the NEW YORK TIMES, multiple from the Eagle Tribune (both Gloucester Daily times AND the Salem News), from an Ohio News outlet on the Talib Kweli feud with pictures as well... The eagle tribune references, does it not say Christian Godinho in all of them and what was listed in the article was just that? Same with the other articles. We just waited a month and it got approved and now after it gets approved people want to consult about taking it down? The references are all legitimate. I see pages on here that have been up for YEARS with 2 or 3 references on them, of a discog and a magazine or website article or two and here we are with almost 20 references, 5 or 6 of them major news outlets with names and pictures and it gets nominated for deletion the FIRST day? What kind of circus is being run here? Chg1990 (talk) 01:03, 5 July 2018 (UTC)

The infamous mobb wikipedia page has been up for years with 2 references... one a discog website and another one a magazine article, from a small publisher https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infamous_Mobb .... you mean to tell me that is more legitimate than 3 or 4 eagle tribune articles, a New York Times article, the talib kweli reference (that Ohio News Outlet scumbagged news and entertainment is owned by the Company: National Innovators Group LLC.), and also lots of published music from actual publishing companies as references as well??? So all i need to do for that page is replace all of there more than adequate and legitimate references with one article from a hiphop website like the infamous mobb page and that's more legitimate for you guys? I dont understand, something is going on here and I want to know what it is... when a page I created gets approved and then suspiciously someone reports it, when I have more than enough references for the page. What more can you possibly want for references, can somebody please clue me in? Chg1990 (talk) 01:08, 5 July 2018 (UTC)

If something is not written from a neutral point of view, let me know... I will change it. I'll change any small things that need ot be changed, but I don't see why it has to be nominated for deletion the first day it's up!!! That's bogus. It even passes the golden rule of wikipedia submissions and that's why it got approved in the first place. There are multiple newspaper articles talking about the subject not from his point of view or in his favor, and the talib kweli one mentions him as not the main subject too. The person who approved the submission followed the guidelines as did I when I submitted the article. What are your grounds for such a claim that this wikipedia should be deleted??? Can anyone let me know? The editor whose username is [[User_talk:Z0|Z0 Chg1990 (talk) 01:15, 5 July 2018 (UTC)

If you guys need actual hard copy proof of the new york times article, that the subject Christian Godinho was a student involved in the ivy ridge riots I can produce a hard copy of the transcript showing the subject was at the school and took part in the ivy ridge riot. There is nothing illegitimate about any of these references used, and even if there were for one or two... I could find you a couple handfuls of pages with 2 or 3 references that have been around forever. Shave off the excess of the Christian Godinho/ Serious Truth page and you still have double or triple that. I demand an answer as to why this is happening albeit so soon after it got approved. Chg1990 (talk) 01:20, 5 July 2018 (UTC) [[User_talk:Z0|Z0 Chg1990 (talk) (talk)

I know it isn't the references. If an article + 3 or 4 is enough to ruin someones life in the real world and change the way people look at them all across the state and region of the country, it's enough for a wikipedia article!! http://www.gloucestertimes.com/news/local_news/police-fire-peacocks-get-around-in-essex/article <---- halfway down the page under manchester, Saturday July 8th 9:40 a.m.: Christian Godinho, 26, of 141 Prospect St. in Gloucester, faces a charge of possession of a Class A substance, heroin, after the car in which he was riding was pulled over for allegedly speeding on School Street. Police said Godinho was sitting with an open box cutter on his lap, and that he and the driver could be seen passing something between them. Officers found a spoon and a small bag of what is believed to be heroin on his seat. [1] <front page news article Chg1990 (talk) 01:51, 5 July 2018 (UTC) Chg1990 (talk) 02:00, 5 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep I passed this for a reason. It establishes notability with several good secondary references. This article is not a stub typical non notable BLP. It contains hard information that is referenced. AmericanAir88 (talk) 13:34, 5 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep Weak Keep (see my additional comment a few entries below) - In fairness to the nominator, the article does need to be cleaned up and the text on the rapper's arrest record should be trimmed down. But that is not a reason to delete, when an "undue weight" tag would suffice. Otherwise the information on the music has been backed up and I agree with the previous voters on the notability issue. ---DOOMSDAYER520 (Talk|Contribs) 19:25, 5 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep - what should I change about the article? Chg1990 (talk) 22:24, 5 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete. What am I missing here with these keep votes? Pretty obvious vanity article by SPA editor. Sources for WP:MUSIC are self-downloads. No significant third party recognition for this subject turns up under either real name or recording name. User DOOMSDAYER520 (Talk|Contribs): What “information has been backed up?” This article only sites YouTube, Soundcloud, i-tunes, Discogs, and Spotify. You are a veteran editor whose opinion carries weight, so if you can direct me to something third party or of substance regarding this subject as a notable musician I would consider changing my i-vote. As for GNG, simply being involved in incidents mentioned in the press multiple times--regardless of the reliability of the source--is, per the nomination, WP:NOTNEWS. None of them are about this person. ShelbyMarion (talk) 22:57, 5 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@User:ShelbyMarion. The article was approved to move out of draft space by User:AmericanAir88, also a long-time experienced editor, and notability would have been investigated at that point. I am actually having second thoughts though, as at first I determined that info on the rapper's music was found in some of the articles that were otherwise about his arrest record. Info on that unfortunate side of his life is far more prevalent than his music so I modified my vote above. Meanwhile, the article is being vandalized and the initial AfD nomination ignored the article's history. Conversely, the most frequent editor is either associated with the rapper or actually is the rapper, but I'm not too crazy about saddling new WP enthusiasts with investigations when all they did is contribute to a new article a little too enthusiastically, while vandals merely get reverted whenever someone happens to notice. ---DOOMSDAYER520 (Talk|Contribs) 19:21, 6 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Voting based on another voter's experience than actually assessing the article yourself defeats the purpose of this venue, sadly. This would cause poor articles to get through or good articles to be deleted. The editor whose username is Z0 19:31, 6 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

User:Z0 - Not sure if that critique is directed at me specifically or at everyone, so I will try to avoid accusations, but note that I assessed the article myself and then admitted to re-assessing it based on Shelby's comment. Regardless, you (as nominator) still have not addressed the fact that multiple editors helped this article graduate from draft space to main space, after which it was vandalized. Several people find that history relevant. ---DOOMSDAYER520 (Talk|Contribs) 20:20, 6 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

listen, can you guys critique me on how to make the page better? I'm actually the talent manager for said artist, a paid manager that he got not long ago. He is currently in a feud with Talib Kweli, a rapper iwth over a million fans on twitter and I can provide evidence of all of that. He had Theo Huxtable from the cosby show hating on him in an instagram post along with pete rock, and all the celebs listed in the talib feud page. Thank you for protecting the page though. There is another small news outlet thats about to publish many, many pictures of the feud (talib kweli went on a tirade the past 10-11 days about my client, at one point staying up for 4 days on end posting about him every 10-12 minutes)... he was close friends with sean price, has worked with many people who have official wikipedia accounts and I put those links up to provide evidence, not to promote. If those should be taken down, thats fine, or slimming down of the music links. Some of those links are music that I personally PUBLISHED for him with a publishing and distribution label my client is signed to for a year, his second time (noting the singles released in 2013 or whenever it was). Like I said before, Christian isnt famous. He's just starting to get known, it's obvious the fact that he has handfulls of people editing slander into his page that has to count for something? What unknown person would have that many people targeted for harassment because he created a wikipedia page? There are numerous sources, and second hand sources, and if they need to be beefed up...fine, I spent a month working on this for him and i wasnt planning on stopping after it got approved. I see articles about producers from massachusetts like Statik selektah, or the ohio rapper Charles hamilton who it says at the tops of their pages that the sources are weak and need to be changed and yet their pages have been up for years, go look if you dont believe me. Infamous mobbs page has 2 sources thats been up for years. Those are incredibly weak sources as well. Can we be constructive here? It got approved, it's getting more upvotes that are proven to not be sock puppets and from legitimate people who are not my client, we established that it barely passed the line...why tear this person down? Why not let us know where we can do better, and we will do it? Thank you guys... any feedback is appreciated, if you think its only for promotion we will take down a few refs. I just wanted to have proof that my client has worked for and produced for the people we claim. I have evidence of everything listed even further in pictures and hard documents but i know that doesn't fly on here. Chg1990 (talk) 21:02, 6 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• comment by the way, that publishing and distribution label is record union. The music is released on itunes, spotify, google play, tidal and more. You can gather that evidence by searching up aggravated mayhem serious truth means of production or posted up on any of those places. I saw over at the massachusetts rapper joyner lucas's page, where i got the idea to do this in the first place for my client, that half of his references or more are published itunes links. My client isnt famous like i said, but legitimate..he's known for more than a few things. I mean for the love of god, after talib kwelis steady promotion campaign of him, the whole state of massachusetts knows...most of his hometown has been asking him why people from all across the state and country are asking them about him. If you need evidence, go talibs twitter page, go to one of the sources i put up that has only a few of talib kwelis tweets about it, or i could upload them somewhere... I have hundreds of documented tweets from talib kweli sharing half of the sources listed here. The one about the fascists house fire, the one about the drug arrest, the one about the salem mass incident with his cousins. This man has been on a steady slander campaign against Christian for almost 2 weeks now, and having his fans bombard the page with slander as well. Like i said, suggestions here...we should be trying to build this page up with suggestions on how to make it better, not tear it down because people want to be malicious. the only reason this page got submitted for deletion is because of the targeted harassment from talib kweli, a famous celebrity who has it out for my client. Chg1990 (talk) 21:09, 6 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Some editors who edited the draft before it was accepted were only fixing the formatting and bare links. It looks like only the author and some other new editors have edited the article significantly. The vandalism has little to do with this discussion as it can be sorted via this AfD. My nomination is mainly because the subject as a person is not notable enough to merit an article. Some of the keep votes are just "there are references" but those references aren't good enough per the GNG and I've tried looking for more in GBooks, etc, but couldn't find anything helpful. Either way, I don't see how other editors editing this article or trying to graduate it has anything to do with whether it should be deleted or not. The editor whose username is Z0 20:46, 6 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep - I agree with the original decision, due to the fact numerous legitimate news sources were referenced, hard proof was given as to the fact this subject is notable in some aspect. You don't have to have a front page article written about your collaboration with notable musicians to show that you have worked with them. The page could always some work, which article is perfect? Also up-voting this because it seems like there might be an ulterior motive to trying to get this page taken down, I see people outside of the original editor have made edits to this page putting in slanderous language and trying to get it taken down as well. This page is legitimate to me. Irishguy360 (talk) 01:14, 6 July 2018 (UTC) — Irishguy360 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]
• Keep - Appears some people are trying to brigade this page and edit in some questionable, slanderous accusations and pass them off as facts Yuktova (talk) 01:45, 6 July 2018 (UTC) — Yuktova (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]
• Keep American Air 88's original decision to approve this Wikipedia entry is solid, I checked the references and it adheres to the notability guidelines in my honest opition. CarolS1957 (talk) 02:15, 6 July 2018 (UTC) — CarolS1957 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]
• Comment - I've started an SPI here. The editor whose username is Z0 03:09, 6 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment That's no sock puppet...investigate all you want, I'd encourage it. Lol. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Chg1990 (talk • contribs) 03:15, 6 July 2018 (UTC) Chg1990 (talk) 03:18, 6 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment I'd actually bet money that the ip addresses are not only different, but they're not even in the same state. I know for sure of the first one, because I didn't make any of them...and you know you can not use a vpn on wikipedia. Chg1990 (talk) 03:25, 6 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• comment can somebody please lock the serious truth page from being edited by vandals trying to slander the page? someone keeps posting that Serious Truth is a woman beater and is harassing talib kweli. You guys can't see the targeted harassment??? Every 5 minutes i have to go back to the page and edit it again. Whoever it is, keeps doing it and you can see it in the edits. Can someone please address this I have been speaking on it for days now. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Chg1990 (talk • contribs) 15:03, 6 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete - I don't see any notability here. There are references, sure, but nothing is about Serious Truth. There's links to iTunes, which if used improperly are only promotional. A search for references didn't turn up anything I would find as helpful in establishing notability. Red Phoenix ^talk 15:57, 6 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep - I have certainly heard of Serious Truth. His productions and collaborations are prolific. It seems to me that Z0, aka KingandGod, whose page got a fresh start for harrassing people with malicious rollbacks is sockpuppeting to rub out a known Boston Area artist much like IrishGuy tried to do to prevent Termanology from getting a Wikipedia page until he had to close his account and assume a new handle. There is clearly enough world data here to substantiate the existence of the page, and Z0 is just having an aspie fit and trying to suppress an artist's notability. BobinArlington — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.30.20.213 (talk) 19:58, 6 July 2018 (UTC) — 66.30.20.213 (talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]
• Keep - Per AmericanAir88's original reason for approval UltraMagnus^speak 20:37, 6 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
• comment - Thank you guys, I want to become a part of the wikipedia community and work on pages. It means a lot to me that people are approving this page. I have another page too, a legendary studio engineer by the name of Michael Cohen. I was at his studio today with Christian and he showed us an album he's working on with Joni Mitchell...I was thinking about making him my next page for submission, here is an article that i'd start with. He's an emmy award winning, grammy nominated producer https://patch.com/florida/sarasota/michael-cohen-opens-signature-sound-recording-studio-sarasota-florida-0 Chg1990 (talk) 20:48, 6 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
• Speedy delete as spam. Clearly the autobiography of a man with a high opinion of himself. No chart positions. Alleged record label, "Aggravated Mayhem", seems to be the man himself too, so there is no label to speak of. Just glancing at the edit summaries of the article shows up feuding and legal threats. The referencing is abysmal. There is the alleged LP, Means of Production, which turns out to be an EP. Never mind notability, this fails on verifiability. You simply can't cite text saying "On July 10th, 2017 he was arrested in Manchester, Massachusetts and charged with possession of a Class A substance." to discogs.com! The sooner this is deleted the better for everybody. --DanielRigal (talk) 20:52, 6 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Change !vote from "Speedy delete" to Speedy delete and salt due to the persistence of the disruption here in particular noting the threat to keep on resubmitting the article added below. --DanielRigal (talk) 21:32, 6 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Also, does the USA even have the notion of a "Class A substance"? We do here in the UK but I was not aware of the same classification being used in the USA. The fact that Class A drug is a redirect to Drugs controlled by the UK Misuse of Drugs Act makes me think that it is just a UK thing. It seems that the equivalent in the USA would be called "Schedule I" under the Controlled Substances Act so what is the talk of "Class A" in Manchester, Massachusetts rather than Manchester, England? --DanielRigal (talk) 21:10, 6 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete mainly per Red Phoenix. Notability is not established. The only thing which appears substantive is the nytimes piece, but has nothing to do with the subject's notability as an artist. The other links are to his music, which don't qualify as proper references. Doesn't pass WP:GNG or WP:NMUSIC Jip Orlando (talk) 21:18, 6 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Change !vote from delete to Speedy delete and salt. I think the activity here is enough to warrant a WP:G11. Jip Orlando (talk) 21:50, 6 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• comment ^^^ apparently this talib kweli fan is in such a rush to slander my client and tear down his page with the targeted harassment that he forgot that on wikipedia you're supposed to sign your name after....false vote and sockpuppetting by a famous celebrity against Christian, like yall have not seen this all along Chg1990 (talk) 21:11, 6 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I find this insinuation to be offensive. Kindly strike your comment. I simply forgot to sign my post that time. Jip Orlando (talk) 21:21, 6 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete - Refs fail to establish notability as a musician, or for anything else. Fails WP:GNG.  Velella  ^{Velella Talk}   21:14, 6 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• comment I think the fact that Christian has published music with not only famous and well known but legendary artists such as Sean Price and Bone Thugz n Harmony, has produced for the likes of Reks, Termanology, Krumbsnatcha, Gangstarr foundation, Big Twins from Mobb Deep and provided the sources of that information and these artists can back it up themselves if asked, has had songs produced for him by Buckwild of DITC crew, the most legendary crew in 90s hiphop, the fact that he has had multiple front page articles written about him, was covered second hand in an article about talib kweli and his harassment of him, the fact that the harassment is taking place on here, wikipedia of all places, and theres evidence of that...the evidence is all over twitter as well. I have hundreds of documented instances where a twitter verified celebrity with over a million fans has been going on a tirade against my client now for almost 2 weeks. Just because the references don't go together perfectly, means the page should be speedy deleted? Like i said up there, in my comments halfway up, lets try to build this page up with constructive criticism, not slander someone and help add to the targeted harassment being manifested by Talib Kweli. It's easy to see here with all of the sockpuppett profiles editing christians page that something is going on, yall are the ones who protected the page. Chg1990 (talk) 21:17, 6 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete - no evidence of notability. \\\Septrillion:- ~~‭~~10^Eleventeen 21:20, 6 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• comment by the way, I know red phoenix is a failed artist and musician who gets his kicks by trying to get anyone who isnt dr dre deleted out of sheer malice and jealousy, Z0 made this new account originally to make a vanity page for promoting his own shit...yall act like you aren't above it. Half of these delete comments arent even relevant. There is a class a substance here. Where are all these people coming from anyway? targeted harassment from talib kweli. Like i said with all the vandalizing edits. That's where its coming from. My client has had a feud with talib for some time now. How is it better for everybody if it gets deleted? How is any of this professional? Yall are doing the website a bad look deleting something over personal reasons and letting sockpuppet bandwagoners who are on a slander and harassment campaign dictate this. 3 deletes in a row over the span of 10 minutes and people arent even signing after? What kind of shit is that? Obviously someone who just made an account to slander someone, like i keep saying Chg1990 (talk) 21:22, 6 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

"My client...."? So this is undeclared paid editing. Wikipedia takes a very dim view of such editing which can quickly lead to the account being blocked from editing  Velella  ^{Velella Talk}   21:27, 6 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Wait, I'm a failed artist and musician? That would mean my life is actually significantly cooler than it is. That's nice to know I'm something I never knew I was. @Chg1990: I'd warn you that most experienced Wikipedia editors actually have a WP:CLUE. I would recommend that you read WP:COI as well as WP:NPA and reconsider your comments. Red Phoenix ^talk 22:40, 6 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I think he is confusing you with me, Red Phoenix ^talk, based on what I wrote about myself on my user page. Either way, he's wrong; I've never created music of any kind. Anyway, I don't think he'll be wrongly accusing either of us any longer as I notice he has been blocked for sock puppetry, canvasing, COI and other abuses. And considering the editor who approved this article in the first place has now done an about face, apologized and nominated it for SALT (see below) I hope wikipedia won't be troubled by this guy again. ShelbyMarion (talk) 12:56, 7 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• comment you know what, delete the page for all I care...I'll resubmit it with the same references and more over and over again and keep gaining references.My friend was been established for a while and only took time off when sean price died out of depression, but now hes back making music and a couple of lowlives on wikipedia who have nothing else better to do than to target a page that was approved with slander, harassment, hatred and no constructive criticism. Notice how nobody has any constructive crit? it's just all vague slander. These people are in and out so fast they probably didnt even read the whole page nevermind going in to check the refs, and i know you mods can see it. You admins or whatever. A page is already up and its apparent the subject is going under an intense harassment campaign by someone with enough clout and pull to do so. With more refs on the way anyway, whats the use of taking it down when its probably just going to get put back up again after july? by then ill have more references for my artist. Like i said, he's having an article written specifically about him and talib on a news source owned by a legit LLC. He has placements in popular hiphop mags and websites coming up too. Whatever. and no, no one is specifically paying for this to be edited. can you say the same about all the people paid to target my friend for harassment? fuck off for real. He only pays me to submit his music for placement and to publish his music. He's right here dictating to me what to write, off the clock. You people are fucking strawman central. Do what you want with the page, it will be resubmitted with more sources, and this time by a family member, by a friend, by anyone but me or him thanks you you guys giving us the perfect guide to get one put back up. Didnt know there was such a rigorous criteria. Targeted harassment is what it is Chg1990 (talk) 21:30, 6 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Three comments - 1) do not personally attack other editors, comment on the article not other voters. 2) do not add claims of criminal behaviour or violence without a citation to a reliable third-party source (ie: not a Twitter feed, not an Instagram post, not a gossip site). Please read WP:BLPSOURCES and WP:BLPPRIMARY carefully. 3) "I'll resubmit it with the same references and more over and over again", no, because you'll be blocked for disrupting Wikipedia to illustrate a point" (the point here being to punish Wikipedia for deleting the article). Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 21:37, 6 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

UTC)

• Comment Not to claim a profound expertise here over the Sega music experts, armchair kingmakers, and the UK environmentalists from Old England, but in New England if you produce tracks for anyone like Krumbsnatcha, Big Shug, Slaine, Reks, Termanology, Edo G, or for crying out loud, Sean Price, you are notable in East Coast rap regardless of whether you have charted. BobinArlington (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 22:06, 6 July 2018 (UTC) [reply]
• delete and salt this and related pages Not even close to N and the obvious and aggressive promotion has nothing to do, with what we do here. Jytdog (talk) 23:31, 6 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• Immediate Delete and salt User:Chg1990 said "my client". If he really is your client Chg, then I have no choice but to file a COI as you are in contact with the person you are editing the page on. I did not know you were in relation with the person when I passed the article. Had I known that, it would be a guaranteed fail of AFC for COI. I apologize for passing this despicable editors article. Thank you nominator for starting the sock puppet investigation, he has been reported to the proper authorities and is temporarily banned. AmericanAir88 (talk) 23:38, 6 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete. We have an NYT article, an article from another news source, and a bunch of things that are thoroughly unreliable as sources for anything except (at best) details of musical releases, not reliable for broader topics like the lives of those responsible for the musical releases. NYT doesn't even mention this person as far as I can tell; I don't see either christian or godinho, and it really doesn't provide significant coverage of anything except the event itself and the company operating the school. And the Salem News article is just a story about guys being punished for a bar fight, and once again it doesn't mention the subject of this article. Given the author's/authors' clear willingness to cite lots of minor sources, I strongly expect that they used anything and everything he/they could find, which makes me strongly doubt that there's significant coverage in actual reliable sources. Nyttend (talk) 01:41, 7 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete based on WP:BIO-related analyses above, and Salt both this title and the subject's real name, based on the promise to recreate and obvious WP:NOTHERE disruptive editing. — Rhododendrites ^talk \\ 02:12, 7 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete. Once the itunes, spotify, youtube, and similar nonindependent sources are dispensed with, all that remains are two newspaper articles, one of which doesn't mention the article subject, while the other doesn't deal with any matter related to his claimed notability. The Big Bad Wolfowitz (aka Hullaballoo). Treated like dirt by many administrators since 2006. (talk) 02:14, 7 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
• Salt and Delete -- Rubbish AFC accept. Zero evidence of notability. Snow close, please....∯WBG^converse 03:12, 7 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete sourcing is...spotty...at best.Slatersteven (talk) 09:50, 7 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete per WP:NOTPROMO. Article does not demonstrate notability and seems to be either COI or UPE written, using poor sourcing, solely for promotional purposes. Since an editor has said they will continually recreate the article I believe we should take them at their word and salt the title as well as any obvious alternate titles/names which could be used. Jbh ^Talk 14:00, 7 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete - fails notability. Most of the "coverage" is of his arrest, which falls under "one event"; or about other people, thus falling under WP:NOTCONTAGIOUS. The fact that almost everything has been done by his publicist/manager, who has been canvassing off-Wiki, is secondary to the failure to meet our standards of musician notability. --Orange Mike | Talk 16:34, 7 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete - One good RS, and the other references refer to an event. Deathlibrarian (talk) 11:56, 9 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete non-notable references. Dial911 (talk) 19:21, 11 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.