The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. A Train^talk 06:16, 11 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Lucas Luiz Scalon[edit]

Lucas Luiz Scalon (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)

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Fails WP:NOTABILITY and WP:FOOTBALL. The player has not played in any fully professional league [a list can be accessed at Wikipedia:WikiProject Football/Fully professional leagues ].RRD (talk) 03:22, 3 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep Passes WP:FOOTY as per this and the subject is 22 years and has made his debut for Chapecoense against Cruzeiro .Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 03:57, 3 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Football-related deletion discussions.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 04:07, 3 October 2017 (UTC) [reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Brazil-related deletion discussions.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 04:07, 3 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 18:21, 3 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

• Soft Delete With only a single 46 minute substitute appearance in a professional league the "presumption" of notability is thin even if that is technically meeting NFOOTBALL. Now signed for India I-League team but no evidence he has played yet or generated in depth coverage, fails WP:GNG. If he starts getting games in India - which is admittedly likely given he is filling a foreign quota slot - it can be easily recreated, but for now it is WP:TOOSOON per WP:CRYSTAL. Nominated too early, wouldn't have hurt to wait a few weeks until the league was underway. ClubOranje^T 05:31, 4 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Comment The Player has made his debut in a Fully professional league this year and later signed for a new club Chennai City F.C. which plays in I-League which a is a Fully professional league and will play when the season starts .I see little point in deleting this and recreating it after a few weeks.WP:TOOSOON or WP:CRYSTAL does not apply here as he has already made his debut and passes WP:FOOTY.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 06:41, 4 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Precedence (with credit to others for the research) see the following AfDs of players that technically passed NFOOTY. Oscar Otazu, Vyacheslav Seletskiy, Aleksandr Salimov, Andrei Semenchuk, Artyom Dubovsky, Cosmos Munegabe, Marios Antoniades, Scott Sinclair, Fredrik Hesselberg-Meyer, Matheus Eccard, Roland Szabó (2nd nomination), Metodija Stepanovski, Linas Klimavičius, Takumi Ogawa, Nicky Fish. He only made a sub appearance for Capoence because they Had hardly any players left following an air crash. He also would not be the first player to decide moving to Asia wasn't for him and leave before every playing, nor would he be the first to fall ill or suffer some other such fate in India, so CRYSTAL is quite applicable in my opinion. Our notability guidelines say we have articles for subjects that are notable, not ones that might soon be notable. It is a simple press of a button to restore if and when. ClubOranje^T 07:21, 4 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The cases of those listed above are largely those who have retired and not playing any longer they do not involve players who are actively playing in a Fully professional league club. Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 07:48, 4 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The clubs do play in fully profeasional leagues, but the player has played in Primeira Liga (Brazil) ,which is not considered to be fully professional. RRD (talk) 09:51, 4 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

This is a cup competition within involving professional teams as per this.This is not a league.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 10:15, 4 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep - Passes NFOOTY, has played senior international football, in a fully professional league or in a match in the competition proper (i.e. not qualifying rounds) of a cup competition which involved two teams both from FPLs. Has played for one team in a fully professional competition and is now signed for another team in a fully professional competition, the examples noted above are not similar players. Fenix down (talk) 11:47, 4 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Odd. Exact same players you used to argue delete for Abdullah Al-Khethiri who had also played less than a full game. And he has not "played senior international football" which is what seems to me to be implied when you repost the full text of NFOOTY. ClubOranje^T 09:49, 5 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Not odd at all, you should re-read both my rationale and also familiarise yourself with the AfDs you quote (since you seem to have lifted them directly from previous posts of mine / Giant Snowman - not that I mind that). In this instance we have a player who passes NFOOTY having played in a competition match between two teams from fully professional leagues and has now signed for another team in a fully professional league. He is young and is likely to continue playing in FPLs. In the case of Abdullah Al-Khethiri, he is much more like the players noted as passing NFOOTY but failing GNG, he is 33, played briefly in an FPL some years ago, has drifted down leagues into non-FPL territory and is of an age where it is extremely unlikely he will ever play at FPL level again. Fenix down (talk) 10:16, 5 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I don't disagree with what you are saying here, although likely and unlikely are subjective terms, and I probably have more of a tendency to wait til it happens (under CRYSTAL), in preference to revisiting it if it doesn't happen, as restoring a page is easy. ClubOranje^T 11:01, 5 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep as above. GiantSnowman 08:41, 7 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions.CAPTAIN RAJU^(T) 15:21, 7 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment SNGs exist to provide for the inclusion of certain defined subjects that cannot immediately be shown to pass GNG. An SNG provides for a presumption of notability, not a presumption of non-notability An SNG cannot be used to exclude/delete an article when the subject passes GNG, but the reverse is patently absurd because that would negate the entire reason for the existence of SNGs particularly for a player currently playing and only 22 years old.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 15:30, 8 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep with professional appearance. Nfitz (talk) 05:04, 10 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
• Weak Delete – Per this discussion, subject-specific notability guidelines do not supersede the general notability guideline, except in clear cases where GNG does not apply to. As it is the single most recent consensus on the notability of sport bios, I feel obliged to go with the result of the discussion: NSPORTS does not supersede GNG. This really does need to be reflected on sport guideline pages, though, as this can seriously mislead people. The 'weak' is rather because that closure has not been linked or obeyed much, and is not in common use. Also, I will note that less coverage has to be applied for this article to be considered notable. J947^{( c ) (m)} 19:23, 10 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.