The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Opinions are tending towards a consensus that the article can (and should) be improved instead of deleted. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 11:29, 10 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Christina Linhardt[edit]

Christina Linhardt (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)

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Subject of article is a singer that fails WP:SINGER an actor, but fails WP:NACTOR & a director that fails WP:ANYBIO. Celestina007 (talk) 09:28, 18 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. Celestina007 (talk) 09:28, 18 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Actors and filmmakers-related deletion discussions. Celestina007 (talk) 09:28, 18 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. Celestina007 (talk) 09:28, 18 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Women-related deletion discussions. Celestina007 (talk) 09:28, 18 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of United States of America-related deletion discussions. Celestina007 (talk) 09:28, 18 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of California-related deletion discussions. Celestina007 (talk) 09:28, 18 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete none of the sources are 3rd party, reliable secondary sources.John Pack Lambert (talk) 19:04, 18 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete unfortunately as does not yet have any prominent roles in notable productions with only minor roles or short films credits so does not pass WP:NACTOR at this stage and being a member of an orchestra is not sufficient for the music inclusion guidelines but may be notable in the future if better roles are secured, imv Atlantic306 (talk) 01:13, 23 December 2019 (UTC) Changed to neutral as explained in later comment Atlantic306 (talk) 03:50, 26 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep John Pack Lambert , isn't the question supposed to be, "Do such sources exist?", not "Are there such sources within the article?" (did you do a Google search on her? What did you find?). And Atlantic306: Passing WP:NACTOR or any other guideline is only a measure of inclusion, not exclusion, and NOT meeting a guideline is not usually grounds for deletion. The question, as I understand it, is this: is the subject covered non-trivially in multiple reliable independent published sources (whether or not included in the actual article)? Did either of you check this? If you did, I think you might be surprised! Also: isn't the Hollywood FAME award evidence of her notability? Also, consider this article on her. A loose necktie (talk) 01:15, 25 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment @A loose necktie: I see that you created this article. If you are aware of other reliable sources with coverage about this person, it would be useful if you could add them to the article, or at least add links here, rather than saying we might be surprised if we checked. I have been trying to check, and so far I have not found a great deal. In 1997, the Los Angeles Times said that she "made a valiant reading of the difficult Menotti aria" in a performance called "Haunted Cabaret" [1]; in 2004, she was a member of a satirical anti-Bush group Billionaires for Bush [2]. Neither of those contributes to notability. This article [3] in International Musician is the most significant coverage I've found. I am not sure that it would count as independent, though, as the article is a "Member Profile", indicating that Linhardt is a member of the association of which this is the official journal. However, it gives some information about her education ("graduated in music and vocal arts from the University of Southern California", though with no dates), and some of the groups she has performed in, places she has appeared, etc, which could be (1) added to the article and (2) used in searches to find additional information. She has performed in Germany, so there may well be more German sources. It's not clear that Skope magazine, which has the article you linked to above, is a reliable source, and the article seems rather promotional and makes rather exaggerated, unsubstantiated claims (eg "Her “Classics To Cabaret” show is a favorite among European Royalty and diplomats"). Some of the info in it could be used to search for additional sources, though. As notability is WP:NOTINHERITED, it is not relevant to her notability to mention that she met famous people. So far I am not seeing enough coverage or enough notable performances for her to meet notability guidelines - it would be helpful if you could add more independent, reliable sources. RebeccaGreen (talk) 07:28, 25 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

  Okay, what about this, this, and the multiple newspaper clippings shown here? A loose necktie (talk) 15:22, 25 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

• Hi, those two links seem to be a members profile addition and a university aluminus report but the press clippings look more independent so I' m changing to neutral, but the Hollywood Fame awards don't seem to have an article assuming they are not Fans of Adult Media and Entertainment Award, imv Atlantic306 (talk) 03:49, 26 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

• Which they are not, of course! They are part of the LA Music Awards as the Hollywood Film, Art, Music, and Entertainment awards. Thank you for changing your vote. A loose necktie (talk) 13:18, 26 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

• Thank you, A loose necktie. The International Musician profile I had already linked to above - it's a member profile, so not independent. The University of Southern California notice is not independent either, as she studied there. The Hollywood FAME award does not seem to be notable itself, so is not an indication of notability for her. The articles in the Press page of the Circus Sanctuary website do appear to be independent and reliable, and should be added as individual references to the article, with the information they contain. They may be enough for her either to meet WP:GNG, or to show that she meets one or more criteria of WP:MUSICBIO, but at the moment, it's not enough to show that sources exist, as there is no clear claim of notability as recognised by Wikipedia notability guidelines. If this AfD is not relisted, I would suggest that this article be draftified, so that the information and sources can be included. RebeccaGreen (talk) 14:23, 26 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

• I have now added some German language sources. Along with those in English, I believe I have now met the minimum requirements for article sourcing. I would rather not have the article moved to draft space, and would rather it simply be deleted if others do not agree that the subject meets the WP:GNG by virtue of having been the subject of non-trivial discussion in multiple reliable independent published sources (whether in the article yet or not). A loose necktie (talk) 01:51, 28 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep for now WP:NORUSH and NEXIST (reliable sources exist even if not in the article) Here is one that a loose necktie found. Subject of a documentary. WP:ATD Wm335td (talk) 22:14, 2 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete appearingly early(ish) career. But not enough sources at present.NotButtigieg (talk) 14:57, 3 January 2020 (UTC). Removing a remark that appears to be inaccurate, she seems to have been performing since at least 1997 when she was damned with faint praise "Among the other performers... Christina Linhardt made a valiant reading of the difficult Menotti aria." May have been a career killer.NotButtigieg (talk) 15:54, 6 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Is that your honest opinion? Okay... Then how many sources ARE enough, NotButtigieg? Also, what is "appearingly early(ish)"? If you mean you don't think she's had a long enough career yet, isn't that basically WP:ITSTOONEW argumentation? And quickly, for Sandstein: I see you have relisted this for further discussion. Given that it had already been listed once and that a decision to delete did not appear to have community consensus while a clear decision to keep was also not there, couldn't you have called it a no-consensus keep and saved the community further discussion time? Just a thought. Thanks! A loose necktie (talk)

• In response, I made a more thorough search and can see very little indication of notability.NotButtigieg (talk) 15:56, 6 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep There definitely seem to be enough independent sources to qualify as notable under GNG. I don't agree that "International Musician" is not an independent source, the profile is a news article in the official journal of an 80,000 member union, this does not constitute a "close affiliation". I'll try to incorporate some of the additional sources into the article in the next day or so.

Cherryblossom1982 (talk) 19:20, 8 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.