The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Doczilla _{@SUPERHEROLOGIST} 07:54, 2 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Afshan Ahmed[edit]

Afshan Ahmed (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log | edits since nomination)

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BLP of a singer of questionable notability. Her career was mainly in pre-Internet days which complicates things, but I see 1. No corresponding article in any Pakistani language 2. The en.wiki article built mostly on passing mentions with little in-depth coverage 3. A search in Shahmukhi produces nothing more (there may be more in Gurmukhi that I can’t search in). Overall lack of in depth coverage in multiple RIS. Mccapra (talk) 04:22, 18 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Bands and musicians, Women, and Pakistan. Mccapra (talk) 04:22, 18 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete - Agree with nominator's rationale. The only halfway-decent source is [1] but that is not nearly sufficient enough. I couldn't find anything myself. Subject as far as I can tell didn't even make the songs she is apparently famous for singing, which throws out almost all of WP:NSINGER. The programs she apparently is known for don't even even have articles (unless I'm blind, which the jury is still out on that) so we cannot redirect. —Sirdog (talk) 08:52, 18 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  The subject is a singer, not songwriter or composer. The ARY News source also give pretty significant coverage of her. It also contains a 3 minutes video report: "A look at Afshan Ahmed's singing career", but it is in Urdu language. Being a pre-internet celebrity, she does not have that much online presence as compared to modern singers because many of Urdu sources and tv magazines have not been digitized like English. But when even the recent media refers her as "legendary", "famous", or "senior" singer, this tells something about her status. Note what the first source says about her: "Afshan Ahmad is a known name, having performed on television in the past". Insight 3 (talk) 11:16, 18 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  Comment - I have stricken mention of song creation as it was thoroughly ridiculous to mention in this circumstance. I appreciate the feedback given to me by the editors here regarding that comment. I'll re-evaluate the subject and sources later this evening when I have more time. —Sirdog (talk) 22:19, 18 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  Upon re-evaluation, I believe that despite my ignorant comment that my standing rationale is sound. My desired outcome remains the same. —Sirdog (talk) 23:06, 20 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Comment I thought it was common knowledge that in India and Pakistan, playback singers are hired by Television and Film composers to sing songs for them... and NOT to 'make songs'. Ngrewal1 (talk) 16:39, 18 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete One semi decent source above, I can't find any online. If we had more paper sources perhaps we'd keep it, but I don't see notability at this point. Oaktree b (talk) 19:58, 18 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep Afshan is a well known singer of 80s and 90s the sources dawn news as well ARY News has a small detail about her and i added a source about her mother who used to sing in films. It is mention right that in India and Pakistan, playback singers are hired by Television and Film composers, they don't make songs.(2400:ADCC:105:2200:4914:896B:6542:2441 (talk) 20:22, 18 November 2022 (UTC))[reply]
• Keep Singers do sometimes perform in certain events for example Awards shows and it's normal. The sources seem to pass WP:PASSINGMENTIONS.(2400:ADCC:105:2200:1578:E4DA:CFB1:2F9F (talk) 17:20, 23 November 2022 (UTC))[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 06:09, 25 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep - There are some good sources:

1. The Dawn source covers her career pretty significantly.
2. The ARY News presents her as a legendary singer with some info about her career. This source also shares a video documentary (in Urdu; powered by dailymotion): A look at Afshan Ahmed's singing career
3. The Daily Jang source verifies her career as: "Many children became big singers from Sohail Rana's program. Afshan Ahmed is a bright example of this. Afshan Ahmed's mother Asma Ahmed was also a great singer. Afshan Ahmed sang children's songs. Then started appearing in commercials and later became a number one singer." (google translation)

Given her pre-internet career, these sources should suffice to establish her notability. Insight 3 (talk) 14:33, 25 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep More than enough news coverage suggested above and at the article, I'm convinced the person is notable and worth keeping on Wikipedia. Ngrewal1 (talk) 23:14, 25 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.