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WP:DSACTOR

This is a collection of discussions on the deletion of articles related to Actors and filmmakers. It is one of many deletion lists coordinated by WikiProject Deletion sorting. Anyone can help maintain the list on this page.

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Edit this page and add {{Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/PageName}} to the top of the list. Replace "PageName" with the relevant article name, i.e. the one on the existing AFD discussion. Also, indicate the title of the article in the edit summary as it is particularly helpful to add a link to the article in the edit summary. When you save the page, the discussion will automatically appear.
You should also tag the AfD by adding {{subst:delsort|Actors and filmmakers|~~~~}} to it, which will inform editors that it has been listed here. You may place this tag above or below the nomination statement or at the end of the discussion thread.

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Actors and filmmakers

Brock Harris

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Lesser known actor and producer. Not enough notability for a standalone article. Fails WP:GNG and WP:NACTOR. CycloneYoris ^talk! 08:20, 21 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Ivy Wolk

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Given this article was recently proposed for deletion twice by User:BarntToust before those were contested by User:Mushy Yank on the basis of this being "not uncontroversial", I figured this ought to be formally discussed. This article was only created back in April and covers an actress who has only been featured in two WP:RECENT films (one released this year) and two recent television series. It fails the WP:GNG because most of the sources are primarily noting the actress was cast in the media mentioned (most of which are a client page and a social media post). The article fails to establish significant independent coverage of this subject herself aside from purely noting her roles and some brief trivia on a college. If anyone is interested in expanding upon the contents, I would suggest moving this to the draftspace (where it should have been started) to allow for further edits to be made to establish potential notability, especially as many of their roles are fairly recent or still upcoming. Trailblazer101 (talk) 04:04, 21 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Television, Internet, and California. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 04:14, 21 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Nominator's Comment: While this may not be particularly relevant to this discussion, I think it is worth noting that this article's subject apparently took issue with the prior deletion proposal (seen here and here), and based on the comments from an obsessed IP here, I think it is suffice to say that there is some bias that exists but ignores Wikipedia policy. I don't think this would have any impact on this outcome here, though including for transparency. Trailblazer101 (talk) 05:16, 21 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. There's only one source that covers Wolk specifically - the Variety article. All other sources only have brief mentions, or don't mention Wolk at all. The fact that half the information in this already short article needs better sources isn't encouraging either. Cortador (talk) 06:56, 21 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Jean Cocteau bibliography

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No need for a standalone article on this, can easily be incorporated into Jean Cocteau#Further reading if relevant. --wooden superman 15:29, 20 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Comment. Hello Woodensuperman. If you're proposing such a straightforward merge, just do it. See WP:MERGE and WP:PROPMERGE. Don't bring it to AfD. Cielquiparle (talk)

Ritesh S Kumar

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Non-notable filmmaker who does not meet WP:NBIO, WP:NDIRECTOR or WP:GNG. Sources are interviews, press releases or trivial coverage. Looking at Secrets of Love (web series) based on the current sources, I don't think it meets notability either. S0091 (talk) 14:25, 20 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The film Mridang was highly appreciated in film festivals and was also honored with awards at some places. After that Secrets of Love which is a web series based on the biography of Osho Rajneesh. In this too, the audience gave him a lot of love. Sikdarkiki (talk) 17:07, 20 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete - Director largely known for Secrets of Love (web series), so not notable enough per WP:BIO1E, WP:NDIRECTOR. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 18:43, 20 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: Per nomination. Subject did not meet the requirements. Comr Melody Idoghor (talk) 19:20, 20 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to Secrets of Love (web series); not opposed to Keep per WP:NDIRECTOR, a guideline that does not require more than 1 notable production (WP:BIO1E does not apply to an artist's work). Other solution: move to draft..-My, oh my! (Mushy Yank) 01:12, 21 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: Per nom. M S Hassan (talk | contributions) 03:51, 21 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Waris Islam

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Fails WP:NWRITER and WP:ANYBIO or WP:GNG. Nothing from WP:BEFORE to establish notability either. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 09:18, 19 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Vineeth Varaprasad

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Fails WP:FILMMAKER. There're no sources from the article or BEFORE to establish notability generally. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 10:20, 19 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Redirect to Lift (2021 film) -My, oh my! (Mushy Yank) 13:23, 19 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Vishal Vada Vala

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Simply fails WP:FILMMAKER. Sources are not helpful toward establishing notability on this subject, the ones from WP:BEFORE are not helpful either. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 09:36, 19 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep: meets WP:DIRECTOR with at least 3 notable films directed (and WP:CREATIVE with 2 written). -My, oh my! (Mushy Yank) 13:25, 19 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Vishnu Narayan

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Simply fails WP:NDIRECTOR. Article does not speak for itself and sources from here and WP:BEFORE do not imply notability. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 09:30, 19 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep: does meet WP:DIRECTOR with two notable films directed. -My, oh my! (Mushy Yank) 12:41, 19 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep meets WP:DIRECTOR from long interviews. I've learned from Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Eashvar Karthic. — Preceding unsigned comment added by DareshMohan (talk • contribs)

Jia Rizivi

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Semi-advertorialized article about a filmmaker, not properly referenced as passing inclusion criteria for filmmakers.
The attempted notability claim here is an unreferenced list of minor awards from small-fry film festivals whose awards are not instant notability clinchers -- WP:NFILM is looking for Oscars, Canadian Screen Awards, BAFTAs or major film festivals on the order of Cannes, Berlin or TIFF whose awards get broadly reported by the media as news, not just any film festival that exists -- but apart from two hits of "local woman does stuff" in her own hometown media (and a New York Times hit that tangentially verifies the existence of a podcast that she was not involved in creating, and thus is not about her in any GNG-contributing sense), this is otherwise referenced entirely to primary and unreliable sources that are not support for notability at all.
Nothing here is "inherently" notable enough to exempt her from having to have a stronger notability claim, and better sourcing for it, than this. Bearcat (talk) 18:32, 18 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Actors and filmmakers and Canada. Bearcat (talk) 18:32, 18 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Note: Article was at a misspelling of her name: I moved it to Jia Rizvi (as on her website and in other sources), then realised one isn't supposed to move an article during an AfD and moved it back again. So as I type it is at the wrong title. PamD
Note also: most sources refer to her as Jia Wertz, but her own web page uses Rizvi. PamD 09:10, 19 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep: there seem to be enough articles about her as film-maker. It was a badly-written article but I've cleaned up some of the problems - use of forename, curly quotes, lack of links, overlinks, etc. PamD 09:10, 19 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

And bizarre system of reference names too: "one" etc. Have fixed the most-re-used. PamD 10:15, 19 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Timothy Williams (actor)

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I can't see that this has WP:SIGCOV in multiple independent reliable sources or that they meet WP:NACTOR. The article itself lists roles in multiple TV series and TV movies, however I can't see reliable sourcing to support the claims. The only independent reliable source which has SIGCOV I could find in an WP:BEFORE was this. TarnishedPath^talk 01:57, 18 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Actors and filmmakers, Authors, and Virginia. TarnishedPath^talk 01:57, 18 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: per nom. Not enough coverage to write a verifiable article and certainly not enough to establish notability. I can't find any significant coverage. The CBC article linked is about Tim Williams (actor), not this guy. C F A 💬 02:08, 18 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Move to draft. Tag everything that is uncited as {{citation needed}} and tag everything that is cited to IMDb as {{better citation needed}}. BD2412 T 03:08, 18 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Move to draft I support moving the article to draft where it can go incubated and sources added. Tesleemah 09:54, 19 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Are there any sources that could be added though? This person's notability has not been established in nearly a decade. I doubt something big is going to happen in the next six months before it is deleted. C F A 💬 14:30, 19 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Emily Hunter Salveson

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ROTM film exec, going about her job, but ultimately not notable or even noteworthy (in fact, borderline A7 speediable, IMO). No evidence of notability per WP:PRODUCER, and with the possible exception of the first Variety piece, none of the sources even contribute towards, let alone establish, WP:GNG (and a BEFORE search finds nothing better). -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 17:57, 17 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: People, Actors and filmmakers, Women, United States of America, and California. DoubleGrazing (talk) 17:57, 17 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. At present, the references in the article are as follows. (The numbers are those given in the reference list in the article, but I have reordered them to put related references together.)

(1) An announcement on the website of Salveson's company about the appointment of a person to a post in the company.

(2) An article about the fact that although a U.S. tax benefit (Section 181 of the Internal Revenue Code) has "expired", some businesses are still able to benefit from it, because they did a small amount of production work before the expiry. It tells us that Salveson was responsible for enabling a number of businesses to benefit from this method. Significant coverage of one thing she has done? Perhaps. Significant coverage of her? Certainly not.

(9) An identical copy of the same article as number 2, on a different website. Not only does that mean it adds nothing whatever to evidence of notability, but it also strongly suggests that it is a press release, and therefore not independent coverage.

(3) An interview with Salveson.

(4) An article about a film. Near the bottom of the article is a list of eleven people involved in the production of the film. Salveson's name is included in the list; that is the only mention of her.

(5) Same again, for the same film, except that this time Salveson's name is in a list of thirteen instead of eleven.

(7) Same again, for the same film, except that this time Salveson's name is in a list of six.

(6) A page on Rotten Tomatoes, which lists the films on which Salveson has been an executive producer, the Rotten Tomatoes score, and the year of release of the film. Also for one of the films it gives the box office takings.

(8) An article about another film, which tells us that "The film is financed by Emily Hunter Salveson".

Obviously, none of this is evidence of notability in Wikipedia's sense. JBW (talk) 20:32, 17 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per above. I was going to nominate this myself. There are some trivial mentions and a bit of coverage about a company she founded, but nothing in-depth about her. Just a run-of-the-mill business person – no real indication of notability. C F A 💬 00:10, 18 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: JBW's source analysis is reliable. The nomination states correctly that Salveson is a WP:ROTM businessperson. I this as VANISPAMCRUFTISEMENT, WP:ADMASQ for a businessperson who fails WP:BIO and WP:GNG 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 13:17, 18 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: I edited the article and added references, but her notability is related only to her role as an executive producer on the film Rust, which was not previously mentioned in the article. I'm commenting rather than weighing in because my only real opinion on the article is that it's a great example of the law of unintended consequences. JSFarman (talk) 01:47, 20 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Karelina Clarke

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Does not match WP:ENT Bulklana (talk) 19:55, 14 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Redirect to Ascendant (2021 film) where she plays (a young version) of the main character's sister. Probably Too Soon. duffbeerforme (talk) 07:24, 15 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect Agree with the redirect recommendation above, but would also support a delete recommendation. In either case, she doesn’t meet notability guidelines to merit an individual article. Go4thProsper (talk) 20:06, 17 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Verónica Rodríguez

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Subject is a fairly unremarkable pornographic actress, cited almost exclusively to industry press and the IMDb-equivalent database for that industry. She has music ventures outside of that field, but none rising, as yet, to an encyclopedic level of notability. BD2412 T 19:09, 13 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep Has enough coverage to meet WP:GNG and has either won or been nominated to several awards in the industry. --NoonIcarus (talk) 23:58, 13 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- @NoonIcarus: Can you specify what in the article you think constitutes reporting in reliable sources "enough coverage to meet WP:GNG"? As far as I am aware, we do not count nominations towards industry awards towards notability, and the single "win" indicated in the article is not for any of the major industry awards. BD2412 T 00:36, 14 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

[1][2], to give some examples. --NoonIcarus (talk) 00:40, 14 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Link #1 is promotional. Link #2 is a standard pornstar interview in AVN. A non-independent churnalism source. Neither contribute to GNG notability. • Gene93k (talk) 16:52, 14 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

How is link #1 promotional? It is an article by El Estímulo [es], an independent outlet. --NoonIcarus (talk) 18:32, 18 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. No coverage by independent reliable sources found in the article nor in independent searching. The references are low-quality even by porn bio standards. The article even debunks the AVN source mentioned above as industry-generated kayfabe. No reliably-sourced claim for passing WP:BASIC or WP:ENT. • Gene93k (talk) 17:11, 14 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Doczilla _{Ohhhhhh, no!} 19:23, 20 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Rakesh Varre

AfDs for this article:

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Fails WP:GNG, WP:NBIO, WP:NACTOR (with only one significant role in a notable film). The available sources are all tabloid coverage under WP:SBST and/or of questionable reliability under WP:NEWSORGINDIA. Repeatedly recreated by UPE/COI editors. Dclemens1971 (talk) 14:36, 9 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

He seems to have more than one significant role in notable productions. Significant does not mean "lead" role only. Did you have his role in Evvarikee Cheppoddu in mind? His role in Badrinath could be considered significant too; and at least a couple of other roles. -My, oh my! (Mushy Yank) 22:38, 9 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Actors and filmmakers and India. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 16:51, 9 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per nom; no evidence of notability. OhNoitsJamie ^Talk 18:58, 9 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep, passes WP:NACTOR. Just go to Baahubali 2: The Conclusion and ctrl-f his character Sethupathi. He has played negative roles (in films such as Badrinath) which may have garnered more recognition than Evvarikee Cheppoddu.[3] DareshMohan (talk) 15:52, 10 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep: per DareshMohan. Multiple significant roles in notable productions. -My, oh my! (Mushy Yank) 22:15, 10 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete or Draftify. The subject's whole career is from unreliable source 123Telugu.com. If you take out everything from the career that is solely from unreliable source, nothing is left. 2 other unreliable sources are Indiaglitz and idlebrain. TimesofIndia source WP:NEWSORGINDIA is also just an interview for WP:PROMO of upcoming film. Fails WP:SIGCOV on the subject's career to consider a standalone notable page but also opting for draftify if the page can be improved with significant coverage with reliable secondary independent sources. Page also fails WP:NBIO. RangersRus (talk) 15:29, 11 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note. Page was created by Mr Nerd 96, who is blocked for "Undisclosed paid editing in violation of the WMF Terms of Use, ignored COI disclosure requests and continued editing NSM Public School, Vijayawada, in addition to potentially UPE-edits at Bandi Saroj Kumar, Rakesh Varre." RangersRus (talk) 12:32, 12 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Doczilla _{Ohhhhhh, no!} 21:30, 16 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: I am also okay with a redirect since a lot of sources point to Evvarikee Cheppoddu, if all sources are WP:PROMO. All information on the page that is considered non-neutral should be made neutral. DareshMohan (talk) 03:06, 20 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Zhu Yudong

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I can’t see any in depth coverage in RIS to indicate that this subject is notable. There may be sources in Chinese I didn’t manage to turn up - if not this article should go. Mccapra (talk) 00:58, 9 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: People, Actors and filmmakers, Authors, and China. Mccapra (talk) 00:58, 9 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment. I have been finding Chinese language sources for this subject, who seems to be a pretty famous director. I haven't yet found any RS that demonstrate individual notability, but I'll look again later today and report my findings or not findings as applicable. Our article is longer than his Baidu page, which seems kinda sus. Folly Mox (talk) 11:24, 9 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: Here are some sources I found:
1. Wang, Xiaoye 王小野 (2021-02-18). ""数字文创展——来自四维空间的线圈世界"展览开幕：用科技与艺术传递光与爱" ["Digital Cultural and Creative Exhibition - Coil World from Four-Dimensional Space" Exhibition Opens: Delivering Light and Love with Technology and Art]. china.com [zh] (in Chinese). Archived from the original on 2024-08-12. Retrieved 2024-08-12.
  The article provides a passing mention. The article notes: "中央新影集团著名导演朱昱东". From Google Translate: "Zhu Yudong, a famous director from China Film Group"
2. "电影《海霞》要拍续集了" [The movie "Haixia" is going to have a sequel]. Wenzhou Business Daily [zh] (in Chinese). 2012-08-30. p. 文娱 14.
  The article notes: "月中旬到10月初开拍。执导此部电影的总导演为中央电视台副台长、中央新影集团总裁高峰。导演为中央电视台科教节目制作中心导演朱昱东，他的电影剧本《达西的季节》、《他们》曾分别获得国家广播电影电视总局夏衍杯剧本奖、中国台湾“行政院新闻局”优良剧本征选大"
  From Google Translate: "...Filming will start from mid-October to early October. The chief director of this movie is Gao Feng, deputy director of CCTV and president of China Film Group. The director is Zhu Yudong, director of CCTV's Science and Education Program Production Center. His movie scripts "Darcy's Season" and "They" have won the Xia Yan Cup Script Award of the State Administration of Radio, Film and Television and the Excellent Script Selection Competition of the "Executive Yuan News Bureau" of Taiwan, China..."
Cunard (talk) 09:12, 12 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: The Chinese Wikipedia article was deleted in December 2010 after a sparsely attended discussion at zh:Wikipedia:頁面存廢討論/記錄/2021/12/04#朱昱东. The sources I found suggest Zhu Yudong is notable but are not by themselves enough for him to pass Wikipedia:Notability#General notability guideline or Wikipedia:Notability (people)#Basic criteria. If more sources cannot be found, I would recommend delete. I hope more sources can be found. Cunard (talk) 09:12, 12 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks very much for looking into this. Mccapra (talk) 09:20, 12 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
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E-Dee

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I wasn't able to find significant coverage of the subject in reliable sources. The references that are presently used in the article mention him once or twice, at most. A possible alternative to deletion is a redirect to Out the Gate (film), in which he starred. toweli (talk) 18:06, 7 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
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Bret Kamwi

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Article doesn't meet WP:NAUTHOR and WP:ACTOR. At most impact, for directing a quite significantly covered play, I won't have at prejudice with redirecting to List of Namibian writers. Safari Scribe^{Edits! Talk!} 13:46, 5 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
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Harvey Spencer Stephens

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Actor primarily known for one part in one movie. Accordingly, fails WP:NACTOR and WP:GNG. There are plenty of sources discussing the one movie and one part, but none for other significant acting parts. Tagged for notability since 2018. Geoff | ^{Who, me?} 14:18, 4 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Actors and filmmakers and England. C F A 💬 14:55, 4 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: He was nominated for a Golden Globe, which is usually enough to be considered notable. C F A 💬 14:58, 4 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to The_Omen#Cast: that is what he's notable for and it's sourced. -My, oh my! (Mushy Yank) 15:30, 4 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep The articles on his arrest clearly show there has been continued coverage of this person.★Trekker (talk) 15:16, 5 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Sandstein 18:03, 11 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 23:17, 18 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: This is an odd one, the sourcing used is about the criminal charge/conviction, but it's in RS. The Golden Globe nomination makes him notable, but the sourcing is about him, but for another reason. I guess it doesn't really matter, the article isn't about his crime, but about him. Oaktree b (talk) 23:59, 18 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep: Keep based on the numerous articles in RS about his arrest; they do go into detail about his prior acting roles, so they are about this person, but not about his award nomination. Oaktree b (talk) 00:00, 19 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep, there are several sources about him though, many are about his arrest, his acting career was also referenced in the headlines. This goes to show that his acting career was notable and I have brought in some sources about his career not the arrest and sentencing. Ednabrenze (talk) 15:16, 19 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

David Merriman

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Repeatedly moved from draft by conflicted user, this clearly fails WP:NFILMMAKER and WP:NMUSICIAN. Theroadislong (talk) 17:25, 3 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Actors and filmmakers and Bands and musicians. Theroadislong (talk) 17:25, 3 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Ireland-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU^(T) 17:38, 3 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Alabama-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU^(T) 17:39, 3 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Misinformation corrected in regards to record deal not being secured -evidence of such clearly provided in articles . Personal information removed about family, as is appropriate. Denseem (talk) 08:45, 4 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

No point of view of skew was taken on this articl, simply correcting inaccuracy and removing personal information Denseem (talk) 08:51, 4 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Denseem, you don't need to make 5 nearly identical comments saying the same thing. It can discourage participation from other editors and the best way to come to a consensus to have sufficient editor participation in deletion discussions. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 00:38, 6 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I removed the duplicate comments, leaving only one copy behind. Left guide (talk) 11:03, 6 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Weak keep I see 1.5 good sources about him - the AL source is substantial; the first Irish Times is brief but is about him. In the rest he's listed as a collaborator with not much about him, or they are interviews. I didn't find anything else about him. NOM seems to be correct that there are COI issues and there appear to have been possible WP:SOCK issues as well. Good to keep an eye on. Lamona (talk) 16:53, 6 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
two Variety articles and Screen magazine are substantial sources in the film business. 77.75.96.206 (talk) 14:01, 7 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The problem is that those articles are not about him; he is only name-checked there. So those don't count toward notability, even though they can source some information in the article. Lamona (talk) 16:57, 8 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, RL0919 (talk) 18:26, 10 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Aydo h8^[contribs] 14:30, 17 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Darby Lloyd Rains

AfDs for this article:

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

16 years ago when this was first nominated it was allowed on a technical sng pass and someone noted it needed sourcing. Well 16 years later it's entirely bereft of a reliable source and pornbio has been consigned to the ranks of deprecated guidelines. Fails gng and ent. Spartaz ^Humbug! 18:36, 30 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Actors and filmmakers, Women, Sexuality and gender, and New York. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 18:49, 30 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep: Meets WP:NACTOR with at least three significant roles in notable films. -My, oh my! (Mushy Yank) 19:14, 31 July 2024 (UTC) (Added a few sources, more sources exist).[reply]
Can you list the films and roles please

And the sources added? Ta Spartaz ^Humbug! 00:53, 2 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Please read the page, check page history and the link "edits since nomination" on this page. Thank you. -My, oh my! (Mushy Yank) 08:19, 2 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This article has significantly changed since its AfD nomination. -My, oh my! (Mushy Yank) 20:37, 31 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: Per nom. M S Hassan (talk | contributions) 09:18, 2 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Except the nom's concerns have been addressed. -My, oh my! (Mushy Yank) 11:09, 2 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
He obviously disagrees with your assertion. You stated she had 3 significant roles in notable films. What were they? The Wp:onus is on you to show what they are here. Spartaz ^Humbug! 07:37, 6 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
’Obviously’? So the page still has no source? OK. I will assume good faith then. As for the rest of your comment, unless you are joking (it’s rather funny), I will assume good faith too: again, just read the page. You need to click on the title of the article on top of this page. I’m not going to copy paste the whole page here. And, by the way, what did you find during your BEFORE? Also, during the 1st AfD, the page was not ’allowed on technical sng pass’ but with a reference to (ANY)BIO (no technical mention of PORNBIO) and with a mention of ’definitely some claims to notability’. -My, oh my! (Mushy Yank) 09:04, 6 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Additional comment: Lloyd Rains also clearly meets the requirements for the notability of actors for another reason: her prolific and noted contributions to the field; and probably passes the threshold for general notability requirements given the amount of ’’multiple independent sources" mentioning her importance in the said field, her roles and performances..-My, oh my! (Mushy Yank) 09:21, 6 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting as we need to hear from more editors. An aside though: Are we really going to talk about "noted contributions to the field" for porn as if it were the sciences, the arts or diplomacy?
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 18:30, 6 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Reply to relist aside: Yes, we certainly are. Especially in the Golden Age of Porn and with directors and artists that had such a strong and honest conviction they were playing an important part in the underground culture of their time and in the history of film. Various films with Lloyd Rains are genre films (horror, thriller, etc) that go far beyond what could be described as "porn" in a derogative way. And various sources, some used as references in the article (you will note that I used no sources from inside the "adult industry" and they include extremely notable and reliable film magazines and scholarship) about her films and performance do indeed mention that point, some in awe at the quality of the productions and at Lloyd Rains's abilities as an actress (one review finds her acting "insufferable", though; and that's not my opinion, which does not count and has nothing to do with my !vote and reply). Now, one might disagree and consider the result has no value, is immoral, tasteless, shocking, silly and trash, and not like it. But it's definitely a "field" in my opinion and her contributions to it were clearly prolific, and noted. -My, oh my! (Mushy Yank) 19:59, 6 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Aside: I was not even thinking about "porn" when I wrote my additional comment (but about film in general). But, yes, I do think "pornography" is a field. -My, oh my! (Mushy Yank) 20:15, 6 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Well, I'll close this discussion according to policy and consensus despite my own view of this "profession". Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 21:09, 6 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I never doubted you would. Thanks. -My, oh my! (Mushy Yank) 21:11, 6 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You know that none of what you said relates to any policy and your assertion of special treatment of porn is belied by the depreciation of pornbio Spartaz ^Humbug! 10:22, 7 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

What are you even talking about? I don’t understand it but I do feel the tone and implication of your comment are rather not nice. -My, oh my! (Mushy Yank) 20:06, 7 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Extraordinary Writ (talk) 23:17, 13 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per nom. Lacks significant coverage in reliable sources. I have spent too much of my volunteer time checking much of the article's supposed references, and they are just a WP:REFBOMB of trivial mentions and unreliable sources that do not meet WP:GNG. Elspea756 (talk) 13:44, 14 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: Curious to know which sources precisely can be deemed "unreliable", except IAFD, which I didn't add myself ~~and that can be removed (feel free);~~ and the source for her role in "This film is all about..." (which I (had) tagged myself as poor, in the hope that an expert or any other user could add a better one, the film being by Damiano) (NB- I just removed both references). "supposed references" is also an interesting choice of words (are they not real? are they fake? Did I make anything up? are there not there?); and how much is "much" of 41 footnotes? 12, 38? As for WP:REFBOMB, well, I did my best to source every statement and role in the partial filmography (more exists) and I don't think (such was not my intent, at least) that any of the references is used in any of the 4 ways mentioned in that essay. WP:NACTOR, on the other hand, is a guideline, and would seem the applicable guideline, and it states, "This guideline applies to actors, voice actors, comedians, opinion makers, pornographic actors, models, and celebrities. Such a person may be considered notable if:The person has had significant roles in multiple notable films, television shows, stage performances, or other productions; or The person has made unique, prolific or innovative contributions to a field of entertainment." (the field of entertainment being cinema/acting) Is it not the case and are the coverage and mention/appraisal of her roles in the reviews of her most notable films, for example, not sufficient to prove it? -My, oh my! (Mushy Yank) 01:58, 15 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Wikipedia:Bludgeon Spartaz ^Humbug! 06:40, 18 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Bludgeoning? OK. Was it when I was replying to your comment on my !vote and on your comments to every reply I gave to others, or when I mentioned you didn't bother to check the page and your rationale was inaccurate? Or when I asked what you found in your BEFORE? Or when I replied to Liz's question in her aside?

Or simply when I commented on the 2 !votes? The link you provide most kindly, states:

It is okay to answer one or two comments that are either quoting the wrong policy or asking a question. It isn't okay to pick apart every single comment that is contrary to your position.

There are only 3 !votes here, including mine. I've replied, politely, I think, to point "per nom" was a bit surprising and ask a question to identify potential unreliable sources. I'll stop commenting at all here, but I am not exactly certain I am the one bludgeoning the process here, even though my replies took me more time and work than yours took you, most obviously. -My, oh my! (Mushy Yank) 13:15, 18 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: Subject does not meet the WP:GNG due to a lack of WP:SIGCOV. Let'srun (talk) 03:45, 20 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. Seems to be a clear pass of WP:NACTOR, for starring roles in multiple notable films? We even have independent articles for three of the films listed in this article already. -- asilvering (talk) 00:06, 21 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, and in addition to those three, I'm convinced that Angel on Fire, which we don't have an article for yet, also is a notable film, simply on the basis of the sources already in the article. Abduction of an American Playgirl is, too. And many of these reviews are from decades after the debuts of the original films! These aren't just "notable in their time" films. These are films with real lasting notability. The more I look the more convinced I am that this is an obvious WP:NACTOR pass here. -- asilvering (talk) 00:10, 21 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I've added another academic article to the sources here. This is where I'll stop. We've kept articles on WP:NACTOR grounds on much, much less. -- asilvering (talk) 00:23, 21 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Proposed deletions

Comment on the talk pages of the articles, not here.

THC Science

Bringing Science to the Cannabis Conversation!

Cannabis Sativa

Actors and filmmakers

Brock Harris

Ivy Wolk

Jean Cocteau bibliography

Ritesh S Kumar

Waris Islam

Vineeth Varaprasad

Vishal Vada Vala

Vishnu Narayan

Jia Rizivi

Timothy Williams (actor)

Emily Hunter Salveson

Karelina Clarke

Verónica Rodríguez

Rakesh Varre

Zhu Yudong

E-Dee

Bret Kamwi

Harvey Spencer Stephens

David Merriman

Darby Lloyd Rains

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