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We have the template template:Professional wrestling profiles which pulls the relevant pages from the Cagematch, Wrestlingdata, and Internet Wrestling Database databases for wrestlers. Could we do something similar for events, e.g. if the template was added to the WrestleMania X page it would link to the pages on the above websites? I have no idea how to create a template of this nature but just thought it could be an interesting idea. McPhail (talk) 11:12, 30 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think linking to those sources would improve any PPV article. Don't they already have references that point to high-quality sources? Adding these three sources reminds me of when every page had a link to the wrestler's Online World of Wrestling profile. These sources are better, sure, but still not high-quality reliable sources. GaryColemanFan (talk) 13:59, 1 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Check the page revision history and my message on User talk:Dory Funk. I have repeatedly requested them to refrain from removing WP:RS and seek Wp:RfC, but they just continue the vandalism. i would respect the decision by senior editors at WP:PW., if they go along with this then its fine. The similar edit pattern of User:ItsKesha and User:Dory Funk on both articles is pretty suspicious. Dilbaggg (talk) 13:22, 8 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Similar edit patterns? Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha have you even checked? ItsKesha (talk) 13:42, 8 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

ItsKesha yes, I have checked the revision history of both pages as well as the account creation time of both accounts. Still I might be wrong about the sock allegation, and I do not intend any personal attack, but removing WP:RS without consensus is clear vandalism. Dilbaggg (talk) 13:43, 8 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Stop digging, mate. Really. ItsKesha (talk) 13:47, 8 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Garbage report. I removed material from The Undertaker I felt was WP:CRUFT; Dilbaggg reverted my edit (fair enough). When another user sided with me, he flew into a juvenile rage with all sorts of allegations spewing forth. ItsKesha is largely focused on soccer, something I've never even watched, let alone edited about here. Dory Funk (talk) 13:46, 8 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

curprev 01:33, 3 December 2020‎ ItsKesha talk contribs‎ 22,328 bytes −665‎ →‎December 2020: seeya undothank Tag: Manual revert

curprev 13:28, 8 December 2020‎ Dory Funk talk contribs‎ m 3,325 bytes −1,263‎ See ya. undothank Tag: Manual revert

see ya indeed eh socks Dory Funk, ItsKesha, now I am confused if i should take it to SPI or just go to AIV, even if I dont someone with a mop will eventually do it, seee ya indeed. Dilbaggg (talk) 13:50, 8 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Lmao, so "see ya", one of the most commonplace internet phrases in the Western world, is evidence of "socking". Sod off. Dory Funk (talk) 13:53, 8 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

What's there to be confused about? I mean it's so obvious we're the same account that you definitely won't be wasting anybody's time in reporting this and you definitely won't be embarrassing yourself in the process. ItsKesha (talk) 14:00, 8 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Dory Funk, ItsKesha i don't acre if you sock, it might get caught someday, thats not my headache but if you continue the vandalism on that article I will definitely report to AIV. Dilbaggg (talk) 14:05, 8 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Also the content definitely isn't WP:CRUFT, it is there because of its universal notability among the pro wrestling world and WP:RS. this is what i wrote on Dory Funk 's talk page (and admins can view the revision history if the disruptive editing continues

The sign of somebody not caring is to send 10+ messages on the matter, threatening to report users, and digging up comments in edit summaries. You have made no attempt whatsoever to actually discuss the changes on either page, have you? However, incredulously accusing people of disruptive editing and vandalism, and accusations of sockpuppetry. ItsKesha (talk) 14:14, 8 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

WP:BRD entitles me to do as I did. Your entire "complaint" comes down to you having a hissyfit because someone supported my removal of the content. Dory Funk (talk) 14:15, 8 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Dory Funk, ItsKesha your edit history and account creation time is too suspicious to count you as separate users. I would respect the opinion of actual legit and older users. And do not threaten to Wp:EW, I have quated the reason why you aren't eligible to make such crucial change without seeking consensus, I have repeatedly requested you to go for Wp:RfC but you continue the disruptive edit. And I am allowed to warn you for such vandilism. Dilbaggg (talk) 14:22, 8 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Still not attempting to discuss the changes, I see ItsKesha (talk) 14:24, 8 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I have discussed everything on my quote from Dory's talk page on the table above (the green shaded heading). As it is you who wants to make the change it is your job to request Wp:RfC and if the vote goes on your favor, no issues then Dory Funk, ItsKesha Dilbaggg (talk) 14:26, 8 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

One might think that your sockpuppetry claims are an effort to pre-empt allegations that you are also User:Gorrrillla5, the account whose additions you are going to great lengths to protect. I haven't yet made that allegation myself. Dory Funk (talk) 14:28, 8 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

As the user Dilbag hasn't made any attempt whatsoever to even begin a discussion on whatever his bollocks complaint is, I have taken it upon myself to begin one. ItsKesha (talk) 14:33, 8 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I dont go typing "see ya" or removing warnings in the same manner as you Dory Funk, ItsKesha, and go ahead accuse the gorilla guy, I got no issues with that lol, I even reverted that guys changes and that guy is from 2007 a year before I even started visiting wiki. But you two created accounts around the same time, have the same edit summary and similar edit history and behavior, just picking different topics except to support one another during conflicts. But that is not my headache, just stop the vandilism, and if you ant your change you need opinions from thes senior editoirs, so file an WP:RfC. Its a long lengthy process but patience is a virtue. Dilbaggg (talk) 14:34, 8 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

See ya, buddy. Dory Funk (talk) 14:36, 8 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

See ya space cowboy?LM2000 (talk) 08:13, 9 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Recent edits on WWE Music Group discography appears to be Wikipedia:Gaming the system by ItsKesha, removing all WP:RS, leaving a sourceless list, but as I am not attached to this article, I won't bother with it and it is upto the senior editors to decide, just letting them know if they feel like checking out, otherwise its fine. Dilbaggg (talk) 18:12, 9 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Matter discussed here [1], we have been asked to go for WP:RSN and WP:RSNP, but since it is about not one but multiple articles and multiple sources, seeking advice. Dilbaggg (talk) 21:26, 9 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

So you think iTunes is a credible source? (the mass removal of content was correct per WP:NOTCATALOG and WP:PROMO, by the way. But here you are, making yet more accusations against me). Do you think WWE's own website isn't a primary source for articles about WWE? ItsKesha (talk) 22:10, 9 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

ItsKesha I explained multiple times, you ignorantly erase comments on your talk page, what can I do? I had it with having to repeat myself with your "attention seeking nature":

"Policy: Unless restricted by another policy, primary sources that have been reputably published may be used in Wikipedia, but only with care, because it is easy to misuse them" and "Note that primary sources make no exception to the general rules regarding sources (WP:V, WP:RS, WP:NOR,...) before they can be used as a source in Wikipedia. That are basic requirements, not further discussed in, nor modified by, the current guideline (proposal). This guideline concentrates on how to use primary sources most appropriately in Wikipedia." (The bold writing isn't my statement, its what the guidelines are and I pasted here). Primary Sources can be used when there are no secondary sources at all. Again WP:RfC is kindly requested. The current status of the article is a sourceless article based on WP:OR which is pure violation of Wikipedia guideline, and WP:OR is a bigger issue than Wp:Primary, and if you have problem with WP:Primary it is your job to bring the secondary Wp:RS to the article instead of leaving it as contents with no source, citations, WP:V whatsoever. But you do not care as long as it fits your personal agenda do you? Regardless I am not that concerned with WWE Music Group discography, I will leave it to senior editors on WP:RSN as per ANI suggestion to see if you are Wikipedia:Gaming the system or not. But I will go on protecting The Streak (wrestling) and don't go accusing me of not explaining when you say things like "I won't bother to read" as you did on the talk page there. Dilbaggg (talk) 03:49, 10 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Requesting help in further improving the quality of this brilliant article to make it suitable for GA nomination. It is sufficiently well sourced, neutral and well written article and a hot topic in modern day Professional Wrestling World. It has way more credibility than the short lived and less impactful and poorly sourced TNA Impact!'s move to Monday nights which still got GA nominated. The Wednesday Night Wars and the rise of AEW as the first serious competitor to WWE since WCW is perhaps the most significant thing in the modern pro wrestling world, this fact is acknowledged even in the TNA Impact!'s move to Monday nights and the original Monday Night Wars with fitting WP:V. Also this article demonstrates genuine neutrality when comparing AEW and NXT and is created based on sufficient and credible WP:RS and WP:V. So yeah I feel this article should be GA nominated. Dilbaggg (talk) 16:24, 10 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I'll have a look here sometime today, but I already see one glaring issue that plague's this project: one-sentence paragraphs in the lead. --JDC808 ♫ 18:46, 10 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The relative notability of other articles has nothing to do with if this article should be GANed. There's a lot of issues with the article, mostly the poor lede, and no real comparisons between the two promotions. It does need quite a large copyedit as well. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 19:36, 10 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I don't intend this to be negative, or a slight on anybody who has put in effort on these articles, but I don't understand the point of articles titled "list of BLA BLA BLA special episodes". Beyond the episodes being on at a different time, or on a different day, or having a theme, or a 55 year old referee debuting, 99% of these special episodes are not remotely special. Oh, a scripted general manager was filmed spinning a wheel to make a scripted match? Fantastic. The episode was the 700th episode? So what, 700 isn't a special number!

• However: TV series have "List of TV SHOW NAME episodes" - List of The Wire episodes, List of The Shield episodes, List of Seinfeld episodes etc. But as we all know, these are TV programmes with finite life spans, and therefore finite episodes. If you had every single Raw episode in an article... that's ridiculous!
• So: we look at the fact professional sports teams have "YYYY-YY CLUB NAME season" - 2020–21 Salford City F.C. season, 2020–21 Torino F.C. season, 2020 Atlanta Falcons season, 2020–21 Detroit Pistons season etc. No matter what sport, no matter where in the world, a professional sports team is notable enough to have this kind of article. Salford City will play 54 games this season (fingers crossed). Basketball teams and hockey teams play 82 games in a regular non-playoff season. I see no reason there couldn't be a List of 1993 WWE Raw episodes, List of 2020 AEW Dynamite episodes, List of 1996 WCW Nitro episodes, etc. showing certain details of the 52/53 episodes in a calendar year. Lists of special episodes just seems too WP:OR, and any special episode should have its own Wikipedia page anyway, providing it passes WP:NOTABILITY.
• Let's take a look at how it could be done, by using this Good Article as an example - 1998–99 Manchester United F.C. season. You've got the lead, where it describes the major moments, and incoming and outgoing players (debuts of major wrestlers). You've then got the written prose for each month - not too long, not overly detailed. As long as only major storylines for each month were mentioned, and key title changes. There would be no need to mention every time Billy Gunn got his arse out or everytime the Dudleys put somebody through a table. Then you've got the match results featuring details like date, location, attendance. Add in match results in a collapsible table. Replace "transfers in/out" with something applicable to wrestling (debuts/departures). Providing its sourced correctly, this is all doable. ItsKesha (talk) 23:04, 12 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

If anyone can help improve the sourcing for Kevin Greene (American football) regarding his WCW tenure, I would appreciate it. There are many wrestling-specific sources out there and I have no idea about the reliability of any of them. Thanks. – Muboshgu (talk) 18:40, 22 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Muboshgu: I will take a look tomorrow. If you want, we have a list of reliable sources here --HHH Pedrigree (talk) 23:33, 22 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I've added some content and sources. McPhail (talk) 15:30, 23 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Why on earth does any American wrestler have a Luchas de Apuestas record? If this is inexplicably included for an American wrestler, why not have their Hell in a Cell history as well? Buried Alive or inferno? Why not have their history at WrestleMania or Slammiversary or Starrcade too? Their Royal Rumble record, or their history in an Elimination Chamber? Masks are huge part of Mexican wrestling, and mask removals are major parts of a lucha libre's career. But in British wrestling it's not a huge deal, nor in American wrestling, or in Japan, or Germany, or Canada. The part about "luchas de apuestas" is literally just a subsection of an article titled "Lucha Libre". Kendo Nagasaki wasn't a luchador, Kane wasn't a luchador. Kurt Angle and Edge, who had a hair versus hair match because Angle was losing his hair, weren't. Big Van Vader, who took his mask off countless times during his matches, definitely wasn't. ItsKesha (talk) 19:13, 23 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

So? They had a Lucha de Apuestas and we include a section for a Lucha de Apuestas, not for a Hell in a Cell. I don't see why the nationality is important. Our MOS says "A record of the wrestler's Luchas de Apuestas ("betting matches"), prominent in lucha libre, is compiled in a table format. It spans the match winner (with their wager), the loser (with their wager), the location, the event, the date and a column for additional notes. Matches should only be included in this list if at least one of the competitors is risking their mask or hair." No mention of nationality, just that the wrestler risks his mask or hair --HHH Pedrigree (talk) 19:21, 23 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Your examples: Nagasaki, Kane, nationality doesn't matter. Angle, the reason behind the Lucha de Apuestas isn't relevant, they had a Hair vs Hair match and Angle lost (similar, La Sombra lost the mask because he wanted to sign with WWE). Vader vs Kane had a mask vs mask match, so it's a match (mystario also lost the mask and put it on the line several times). --HHH Pedrigree (talk) 19:31, 23 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The manual of style you've quoted from literally says it's prominent in lucha libre. Mexican wrestling! Of course the nationality is important, otherwise it would simply say "prominent in wrestling". And you've not explained why it's even included other than saying basically "we include it because we include it", and vice versa for any other match/situation I mentioned. ItsKesha (talk) 21:20, 23 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

"Matches should only be included in this list if at least one of the competitors is risking their mask or hair" Again, no reason to exclude no-Mexican wrestlers just because the Lucha de Apuestas is more common in Mexico. --HHH Pedrigree (talk) 22:49, 23 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I'm sorry but you've not actually answered the question. Why is this thing deemed so important as to include it on all articles, regardless of cultural importance or lack thereof? ItsKesha (talk) 12:02, 24 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The consensus, based on discussions within the project, is to include LdA records. Anyone wanting to change this would need to establish a new consensus. GaryColemanFan (talk) 15:51, 24 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

So... any thoughts Gaz? ItsKesha (talk) 16:20, 24 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Assuming you're addressing me, then yes, I think that anyone wanting to change the existing consensus would need to establish a new consensus. GaryColemanFan (talk) 18:49, 24 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

So do you have an actual opinion on the matter Gaz? ItsKesha (talk) 22:52, 26 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Assuming you're addressing me (and, if so, I would appreciate that you don't make up nicknames for me), then I would say that, if you are wanting to change the existing consensus, you should open a discussion that puts forward your points in a calm and coherent manner. GaryColemanFan (talk) 01:35, 27 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

So that's a no then Gaz? Thanks for your time... ItsKesha (talk) 03:02, 27 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Again, if you are addressing me, you may refer to me by my full name or by the shortened forms Gary or GCF. Your manner of addressing me comes across as condescending. Perhaps you were unaware of how your words are being received, but I trust you will avoid unwelcome nicknames now that you are aware of the situation. As for my opinion on the other matter, you are welcome to open a discussion that puts forward your points in a calm and coherent manner. GaryColemanFan (talk) 06:08, 27 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Howling at the idea that calling somebody called Gary "Gaz" is condescending. But thanks for again making no attempt whatsoever at answering the question posed. ItsKesha (talk) 11:30, 27 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Would appreciate some actual input on this, rather than completely unnecessary stonewalling. Just why is this thing deemed so important as to include it on all articles, regardless of cultural importance or lack thereof? ItsKesha (talk) 11:30, 27 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Because [2] iT rEaLlY iS tHaT sImPlE, ItsKesha. starship.paint (exalt) 11:52, 27 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Star, thanks for dropping by. I assume you've also tagged in Gary Coleman for making exactly the same edit summary, three times? Do you have any thoughts on this matter, by the way? ItsKesha (talk) 12:36, 27 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

No, I have not, and at this moment, I do not, ItsKesha. starship.paint (exalt) 12:47, 27 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The tone of your comments here are not conducive to gaining a consensus ItsKesha, be careful. As stated above, if you would like to change the MOS, you need to gain consensus. I don't really see how that is hard to conceive. It makes no sense to me to disclude this information based on nationality. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 12:21, 27 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Lee. I haven't once mentioned consensus, I've not stated I'm trying to change a consensus. I'm simply asking some straightforward questions. As I've already said, masks are huge part of Mexican wrestling, and mask removals are major parts of a lucha libre's career. But in British wrestling it's not a huge deal, nor in American wrestling, or in Japan, or Germany, or Canada. Why not also have their history at WrestleMania or Slammiversary or Starrcade too? Their Royal Rumble record, or their history in an Elimination Chamber? Why is this thing deemed so important as to include it on all articles, regardless of cultural importance or lack thereof? 4. ItsKesha (talk) 12:36, 27 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• shame that tone clouds the message here. It is a matter of consistency really, while not AS important outside of Mexico it's still a fairly permanent outcome (Kurt Angel's hair comes to mind) and it was the general consensus of those who participated in the discussion that it should be included. MPJ-DK (talk) 01:15, 29 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Kane, Big Van Vader, Molly Holly, Jeff Jarrett, Chavo Guerrero, Rey Mysterio, Kevin Nash, Vince McMahon, etc, etc, etc Permanence is hardly a solid argument. "Luchas de Apuestas" isn't even notable enough to have a separate Wikipedia page, how is it of such prominence to be the sole match history detailed in this manner? ItsKesha (talk) 13:53, 30 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

You said you aren't looking for a new consensus, but you keep answering every user even when they explained the situation. --HHH Pedrigree (talk) 14:17, 30 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Was there ever actually a consensus? The only discussions in the archives about the specific inclusion of it is this, where *Treker, Ribbon Salminen, starship.paint, Feedback and Mattspac all say that it should apply to Lucha wrestlers only, you disagreeing, and MPJ-DK debating what should be included as a Luchas de Apuestas. Here, where only two people seem to have an opinion on the inclusion - you and Prefall, who disagrees with the inclusion. And here, where you argue for the inclusion while both Feedback and MPJ-DK say only for lucha wrestlers. Maybe we should have discussion regarding a new consensus? ItsKesha (talk) 16:49, 30 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

A consensus exists. I think that anyone wanting to change the existing consensus would need to establish a new consensus. You are welcome to open a discussion that puts forward your points in a calm and coherent manner. 19:51, 30 December 2020 (UTC)

Good evening Gareth. I'm sure you wouldn't mind being gracious enough to point me in the way of this consensus, I guess I must have missed it when looking through the archives? Thanks in advance for you coöperation in the matter. Also, do you have any thoughts on the matter yet, now you've had a few days to mull it over? ItsKesha (talk) 23:55, 30 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

It is in the MOS and has been in the various articles for so long that it's the current established standard. So your next step should be one of two things 1) try to establish a consensus to remove them for "non-Luchadors" or 2) stop talking about it. MPJ-DK (talk) 17:57, 31 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

This wrestling legend passed away yesterday. I've added a couple of references, and the article looks like it's close to ready for RD--just a few more references needed. If anyone has some time, it would be great to see this posted on the main page. GaryColemanFan (talk) 17:32, 26 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I just saw that Brodie Lee has also passed away. I can't find a mainstream source for it yet, but it looks like his article would also be very close to ready for RD. GaryColemanFan (talk) 01:51, 27 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

It's on RD now. TRM opined that Brodie would be worth nominating for WP:GA], if anyone wants to do it. starship.paint (exalt) 11:18, 27 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Clearly this event never happened, even if there was no formal announcement of a cancellation. We have three days left in 2020 (yay!). And also clearly that any previously announced matches for this cancelled event are off (especially anything to do with Scurill in ROH, as he's no longer even listed on their roster page). So what do we do with this article? It was a marginally notable internet PPV to start with, but even if we decide to keep a separate article (instead of overhauling it for the 2021 edition, presuming that actually happens) it still needs a total rewrite as it is woefully outdated and still written as though there's a chance this event could happen in 2020. oknazevad (talk) 15:44, 29 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

If it meets GNG, then tweak the phrasing to indicate that it was a planned pay-per-view and provide an update about Scurill's departure and why the event didn't take place. It can't lose its notability just because it didn't happen. GaryColemanFan (talk) 16:51, 29 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Agree with Gary. The event is notable, so just change that the event was planned and "cancelled" due COVID. For example, we have AEW Blood and Guts or EMLL 52nd Anniversary Show as cancelled events. --HHH Pedrigree (talk) 09:38, 30 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]