June 25

NEW NOMINATIONS

People by occupation in Northern Ireland

• Propose merging Category:Women mathematicians from Northern Ireland‎ to Category:Mathematicians from Northern Ireland and to Category:British women mathematicians and to Category:Irish women mathematicians.
• Propose merging Category:Geneticists from Northern Ireland‎ to Category:Biologists from Northern Ireland and to Category:British geneticists and to Category:Irish geneticists.
• Propose merging Category:Palaeontologists from Northern Ireland‎ to Category:Geologists from Northern Ireland and to Category:Biologists from Northern Ireland and to Category:British palaeontologists and to Category:Irish palaeontologists.
• Propose merging Category:Epidemiologists from Northern Ireland‎ to Category:Scientists from Northern Ireland and to Category:British epidemiologists and to Category:Irish epidemiologists.
• Propose merging Category:Statisticians from Northern Ireland‎ to Category:Mathematicians from Northern Ireland and to Category:British statisticians and to Category:Irish statisticians.
• Propose merging Category:Meteorologists from Northern Ireland‎ to Category:Scientists from Northern Ireland and to Category:British meteorologists and to Category:Irish meteorologists.
• Propose merging Category:Women archaeologists from Northern Ireland‎ to Category:Archaeologists from Northern Ireland and to Category:British women archaeologists and to Category:Irish women archaeologists.
• Propose merging Category:Botanists from Northern Ireland‎ to Category:Biologists from Northern Ireland and to Category:British botanists and to Category:Irish botanists.
• Propose merging Category:Roboticists from Northern Ireland‎ to Category:Computer scientists from Northern Ireland and to Category:British roboticists and to Category:Irish roboticists.
• Propose merging Category:Naturalists from Northern Ireland‎ to Category:Biologists from Northern Ireland and to Category:British naturalists and to Category:Irish naturalists.

Nominator's rationale: Per WP:SmallCat since each of these has less than 4 members. Diffusing by place makes sense, by occupation not so much. Laurel Lodged (talk) 16:11, 25 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Note: WikiProject Ireland has been notified of this discussion.

• Oppose. Newly-created category, mostly with plenty of scope for expansion. This is another vindictive, disruptive bad-faith nomination by LL, who is stalking my contribs and has clearly not done any WP:BEFORE.
  This is NOT diffusion by place; it is diffusion by nationality, which is an establsihed series. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 16:18, 25 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
• Note that most of these categories are for sub-disciplines. But because this is a rushed, vindictive, disruptive bad-faith nomination, LL had not even taken the time to designate the parent category as the merge targets. That is pretty good evidence that LL also didn't scrutinise the parent categories to test the scope for diffusion. --16:30, 25 June 2023 (UTC)
• Note 1 by her own admission, BHG has spent the past 6 weeks making many micro-by-county-by occupation categories. As an editor in Irish space, they have been flashing up on my Watchlist with annoying frequency. Not much stalking needed. No need for Sherlock Holmes either. Laurel Lodged (talk) 16:26, 25 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• LL< I am making and populating in an iterative process. None of the cats I have created are yet fully populated, and most of them are already well-populated. BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 16:32, 25 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  Also note that these are NOT by-county categories. BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 16:39, 25 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• Note 3 Not all these categories were created by BHG. Laurel Lodged (talk) 16:32, 25 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• @Laurel Lodged: please describe for each of these categories what WP:BEFORE work you did to assess whethe:r they meet WP:SMALLCAT:

1. whether they have "no possibility for growth"
2. whether they are part of an established series.

I don not believe that you ae acting in good faith and I do not believe that you have done this work. But if you have done the work, it set it out for editors to read. BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 16:38, 25 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• Response to Request 1 I decline to do so. Why should I be expected to jump over a barrier (logged proof) that is not expected of any other editor? Laurel Lodged (talk) 16:47, 25 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  @Laurel Lodged: WP:BEFORE is expected of every editor who makes a nomination at AFD, CFD, RFD, TFD etc.

  But thank you for confirming hat did not do the work. BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 16:50, 25 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I believe that I clarified the it was the "logged proof" that I was declining. You may assume, in Good Faith, that the rest was of course carried out. Laurel Lodged (talk) 16:53, 25 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

LL, you have provided no explanation of why, for example, you believe that Category:Women mathematicians from Northern Ireland‎ fits the WP:SMALLCAT criteria of:

1. "no possibility for growth"
2. not pat of aa established series

Note that Category:Women mathematicians by nationality (36) has 35 subcats. Why do yo believe that is not an established series? BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 17:05, 25 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• Apologies to all for the bad indenting here. I tried to tidy it up but BHG doesn't like anyone interfering with her work, however badly indented it may be. I will desist from any further copyright infringements. Laurel Lodged (talk) 16:56, 25 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  LL, per WP:TPG, don't refactor other people's comments. BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 17:10, 25 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  WP:TPG explicitly allows "fixing indentation levels". (* should be followed by ** or *:, not :*. See MOS:INDENTMIX.) Oculi (talk) 17:30, 25 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• Support - the nominator is not required to do a WP:BEFORE which relates to articles (AFD). These are not articles and it is a merge, not delete. I would suggest a merge in some cases to Category:Biologists from Northern Ireland. It is difficult to see why this needs to be diffused. Another is Category:Computer scientists from Northern Ireland. It is for the creators of these tiny categories to do some prior research on potential numbers. Oculi (talk) 16:59, 25 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• Reply Thanks @Oculi:, that's a sensible suggestion. Looks my Before was not as comprehensive as it might have been. Noms amended per suggestion. Laurel Lodged (talk) 17:09, 25 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  LL< there was clearly absolutely NO WP:BEFORE. A second's scrutiny of each category would have shown you that had not selected appropriate merge targets.

  The fact that you were ot even aware of the parent categories is pretty conclusive evidence that you had not checked for any further diffusion. BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 17:14, 25 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• I am happy to confirm that my NI amendments are now complete. I think this may remedy the parenting defect that BHG complained of above. Unlike Oculi though, who provided positive examples, she was content to just hector. That's the difference between building a better Wiki and being BHG. Laurel Lodged (talk) 17:20, 25 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment. These merges have been proposed purely on the basis of the current size of the categories, which is clearly not the grounds set out in WP:SMALLCAT. The nominator also wholly ignores the "established series" part of WP:SMALLCAT.
  If categories are to be nominated for deletion less than 48 hours after creation, by a nominator who makes mo attempt whatsoever to assess their scope for expansion, then categorisation work is made unreasonably difficult. That appears to be the aim of LL@s stalking.
  All the nominated cats are part of least one established series, sometimes several series), and there is no basis whatsoever for bringing them immediately to CFD without any scrutiny. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 17:32, 25 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Category:In-Grid

• Propose deleting Category:In-Grid (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Nominator's rationale: With only articles on albums and songs, already in appropriate subcategories and interlinked, this is overcategorization per WP:OCEPON. Starcheerspeaksnewslostwars^{Talk to me} 15:56, 25 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Meta Platforms-related lists

• Propose merging Category:Meta Platforms-related lists to Category:21st century-related lists and Category:Internet-related lists and Category:Corporation-related lists

Nominator's rationale: Per WP:SMALLCAT. This category has only 1 entry. Estopedist1 (talk) 15:49, 25 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Category:16th century assassinated French politicians

• Propose merging Category:18th century assassinated French politicians (0) to Category:Assassinated French politicians and Category:18th-century French politicians
• Propose merging Category:19th century assassinated French politicians (0) to Category:Assassinated French politicians and Category:19th-century French politicians
• Propose merging Category:16th century assassinated French politicians (0) to Category:Assassinated French politicians and Category:16th-century French politicians

Nominator's rationale: There are only 30 people in all in Category:Assassinated French politicians and splitting by century is not justified. I again urge User:Thinker78 to reflect before creating more categories: Category:1930s assassinated French politicians is lacking an important parent, viz Category:1930s assassinated politicians. Also Category:20th-century French politicians is hyphenated so I expect Category:20th century assassinated French politicians should also be. (I will leave the more complicated Category:20th century assassinated French politicians for another nom.) Oculi (talk) 13:33, 25 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• Oppose What would be the point of merging era-specific categories to a parent which has no specific era in mind? I view the parent category as rather useless, and making navigation harder. Dimadick (talk) 16:06, 25 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Fair enough. I have added other merge targets. Oculi (talk) 16:38, 25 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Jewish American philanthropists

• Propose merging Category:Jewish American philanthropists to Category:American philanthropists

Nominator's rationale: American philanthropists aren't divided by any other religion or ethnic group. Dream Focus 13:20, 25 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Jewish philanthropists

• Propose deleting Category:Jewish philanthropists (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Nominator's rationale: We don't have categories for philanthropist for any other religion or ethnic group, only by nation and sometimes region. Dream Focus 13:17, 25 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Category:1970s assassinated South American politicians

• Propose merging Category:1970s assassinated South American politicians to Category:1970s assassinated politicians

Nominator's rationale: Category:1970s assassinated politicians (0) should be fully populated before any splitting occurs; there is no pressing need to subcategorise a category with only 35 members. In any case, people are not directly categorised as 'South American': Category:South American people is a container category. Oculi (talk) 12:25, 25 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Category:1930s assassinated Costa Rican politicians

• Propose merging Category:1930s assassinated Costa Rican politicians to Category:1930s assassinated politicians

Nominator's rationale: 1 article; and Category:1930s assassinated politicians (0) should be fully populated before any splitting occurs. Oculi (talk) 12:18, 25 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Category:1960s assassinated African politicians

• Propose merging Category:1960s assassinated African politicians to Category:1960s assassinated politicians

Nominator's rationale: 1 member; and Category:1960s assassinated politicians (0) should be fully populated before being split. Oculi (talk) 12:13, 25 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Ukrainian historical regions outside of Ukraine

• Propose deleting Category:Ukrainian historical regions outside of Ukraine (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Nominator's rationale: Regions that were never part of Ukraine and simply includes any territories that had Ukrainian settlers. Also WP:NONDEF. Mellk (talk) 08:24, 25 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• A number of articles is already in Category:Ukrainian diaspora in Russia, e.g. regions in the Far East. Other articles are about regions bordering to Ukraine with a sizeable Ukrainian-speaking population. The word "settlers" is inappropriate in the latter case, it is just that country borders have not been drawn exactly along language borders. Perhaps rename to Category:Geographical spread of the Ukrainian language. Marcocapelle (talk) 11:16, 25 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  Some of the articles are about regions that today are Ukrainian-speaking while others are about colonies that had Ukrainian minorities but no longer do. As a whole, they cannot be considered "Ukrainian historical regions". Dobruja is also included but I am not sure how this a historical Ukrainian territory, there were only some settlers for a brief period of time. Mellk (talk) 12:02, 25 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  • Agree that "Ukrainian historical regions" is inappropriate. But what about the rename? Marcocapelle (talk) 12:30, 25 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

    I think it works for now. Mellk (talk) 12:35, 25 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  • I oppose that such a concept exists and all these regions have been inhabited by Ukrainians for a long time.--Yasnodark (talk) 12:34, 25 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Gujjar places

• Propose deleting Category:Gujjar places (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Nominator's rationale: Everyone names places, there's no defining characteristics for it — DaxServer (t · m · e · c) 07:31, 25 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete per nom, the content of the category also reminds of WP:SHAREDNAME. Marcocapelle (talk) 11:21, 25 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Nobility of the Americas

• Propose splitting Category:Nobility of the Americas to Category:Nobility in North America and Category:Nobility in South America
• Propose splitting Category:Titles of nobility in the Americas to Category:Titles of nobility in North America and Category:Titles of nobility in South America

Nominator's rationale: split per precedent, e.g. Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2023_May_27#Category:Royal_families_of_the_Americas. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:34, 25 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

People born during Tang

• Propose merging Category:Five Dynasties and Ten Kingdoms people born during Tang to Category:Five Dynasties and Ten Kingdoms people
• Propose merging Category:Former Shu people born during Tang to Category:Former Shu people
• Propose merging Category:Jin (Later Tang precursor) people born during Tang to Category:Jin (Later Tang precursor) people
• Propose merging Category:Later Liang (Five Dynasties) people born during Tang to Category:Later Liang (Five Dynasties) people
• Propose merging Category:Ma Chu people born during Tang to Category:Ma Chu people
• Propose merging Category:Min Kingdom people born during Tang to Category:Min Kingdom people
• Propose merging Category:Southern Han people born during Tang to Category:Southern Han people
• Propose merging Category:Wuyue people born during Tang to Category:Wuyue people
• Propose merging Category:Yan (Five Dynasties period) people born during Tang to Category:Yan (Five Dynasties period) people
• Propose merging Category:Zhao (Five Dynasties period) people born during Tang to Category:Zhao (Five Dynasties period) people
• Propose merging Category:Qi (Li Maozhen's state) people born during Tang to Category:Qi (Li Maozhen's state) people
• Propose merging Category:Yang Wu people born during Tang to Category:Yang Wu people

Nominator's rationale: merge, ruling dynasty during one's birth is not a defining characteristic of a person. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:26, 25 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Prix des romancières recipients

• Propose Deleting Category:Prix des romancières recipients

Nominator's rationale: Per WP:DNWAUC, WP:OCAWARD, and WP:NONDEFINING

There's not much here. There's no Prix des romancières main article (and no Novelist Award) but, based on the parent cat, it's from France. There are only two biography articles both of which list this award among other honours so it's not treated as defining. (I copied all the current category contents right here so no work is lost if anyone wants find reliable source and create a list article.) - RevelationDirect (talk) 00:07, 25 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:38, 25 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Voltaire Lectures

• Propose Deleting Category:Voltaire Lectures

Nominator's rationale: Per WP:PERFCAT, WP:SMALLCAT, & WP:DNWAUC

There's not much here: there's no main article but a redirect that points to Humanists UK#Lecture series. Once you follow that link, it only has one sentence listing the many lectures that organisation hosts. Bonya Ahmed gave a lecture one year, which her article mentions in passing, but that's WP:PERFCAT. The only other article is a book based on this lecture which is defining but that leaves us with a 1 article category, which is a WP:SMALLCAT. (I copied all the current category contents right here so no work is lost if anyone wants find reliable source and create a list article.) - RevelationDirect (talk) 00:07, 25 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:39, 25 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete per nom. Bonya Ahmed is not a lecture. Oculi (talk) 10:09, 25 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]