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Those who behave like insolent IT admins will be asked to do something useful... like change the toner in my LaserJet... and to quit using my T1 for serving up unlicensed reruns of "Buffy the Vampire Slayer." Remember, there are starving people in Carjackistan who will gladly run my help desk for a bag of Skittles and some Gatorade. --Yakuman (数え役満)

Again, welcome! DickClarkMises 14:39, 24 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

OK, this guy can send me canned messages, but not you... or that silly perl script you call a bot.Yakuman

The following is the record of an ordinary guy being harassed and threatened by an obsessive-compulsive band of vigilantes with no social skills. Some material may not be suitable for children. Parental discretion is advised.

The warning below isn't true, but some guy demands I keep it here.

(You know, it isn't just the baseless warning that irritates me. It's that stupid GIF with the hand on a stop sign that really honks me off. This guy owes me an apology. In the source he has me tagged as a "Blatantvandal," which is demonstrably false.) --Yakuman (数え役満)

warning

Please do not remove legitimate warnings from your talk page or replace them with inappropriate content. Removing or maliciously altering warnings from your talk page will not remove them from the page history. You're welcome to archive your talk page, but be sure to provide a link to any deleted legitimate comments. If you continue to remove or vandalize legitimate warnings from your talk page, you will lose your privilege of editing your talk page. Thanks.

You vandalized Wikipedia:Mediation Cabal and I warned you for it.

Welcome to Wikipedia. We invite everyone to contribute constructively to our encyclopedia. Take a look at the welcome page if you would like to learn more about contributing. However, unconstructive edits are considered vandalism, and if you continue in this manner you may be blocked from editing without further warning. Please stop, and consider improving rather than damaging the work of others. Thank you. Wikipedia's False Prophet holla at me Improve Me 02:45, 28 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The warning above isn't true, but some guy demands I keep it here.

Well, I deny the vandalism charge, but now I'm forced to leave defamatory statements against myself standing. The case involves an unofficial group of mediators who are calling themselves "a cabal." This is the paragraph that is being termed vandalism:

(The term and usage of cabal here dates back to the heyday of usenet, when some people believed that sysadmins acted in concert without consideration for users. Before the boom in commercial ISPs in the mid-1990s, administrator action could disrupt or even cut off one's only route to Internet services. The term cabal invoked a sense of powerlessness and frustration on behalf of users, which those with technical power were free to inflict. Presumably the use here is tongue in cheek.)

I told CQJ who deleted my addition: "You deleted my text without cause. If you think you impress people by calling yourself a cabal member, go back to the 1980s." I elaborated on the cabal's talk page: "Last time I checked, this was a public forum and apropos changes were INVITED. So go ahead and call me a clueness newbie. I'm a big boy. I can take it."

I also complained about False Prophet's use of canned messages. I responded: "If you wish to talk to me, send your own messages. Do not send me auto-generated spam." I elaborated on the talk page: "Oh, wait. I __DID__ get called a clueless newbie. You see why I was complaining about the name "cabal." It suggests an army of little tin gods with perl scripts."

This was my last comment on the subject in this forum:

Like I said, the cabal joke isn't funny. It wasn't funny in the 1980s. My intent was reconciliation, not vandalism. The term and use of the word "cabal" is itself uncivil because it asumes a threatened arbitrary use of power, which is not helping toward a healthy working relationship. Yakuman 02:56, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

In the interest of fairness, I intend to restore the deleted warnings. Yakuman 03:13, 28 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Yakuman The Vandal

False Prophet's message above refers to content below:

Maybe it would be better to bring the issue on the talk page, and allow user group to decide for themselves what do they want to write on their page? CP/M comm |Wikipedia Neutrality Project| 01:34, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

I know that you think that you were helping, but I am going to ask you to keep your POV to yourselves and the real world. Wikipedia is to be written from the NPOV. Thank you for experimenting with Wikipedia. Your test worked, and it has been reverted or removed. Please use the sandbox for any other tests you want to do. Take a look at the welcome page if you would like to learn more about contributing to our encyclopedia. Wikipedia's False Prophet holla at me Improve Me 01:50, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

Hm. Let's see here. "This "cabal" stuff is anachrnistic. Some comment is deserved, And the threatening, conspiratorial graf was excised; it does not help arbitration; rather, it seems like an attempt at intimidation.", and in addition: This is a public forum and it deserves comment. If they want to "decide from themselves," countless ISPs will sell them server space! I don't expect my changes to last, but I do expect these people to take notice.Yakuman 01:39, 28 August 2006 (UTC). And as I stated in my edit summary reverting your change, be that as it may, you should probably do as CP/M suggests and discuss that on the talk page instead of summarily making a change. Revert to last version by Jsw663.

I would encourage you to kindly review WP:POINT at your earliest convenience. While the cabal term is indeed deprecated (sp) and anachronistic, the Mediation Cabal is an accepted procedure for dispute resolution on Wikipedia and nonetheless a recognized sort of WikiProject. If you're upset that someone's filed a Mediation Cabal case that involves you, we apologize, but that does not permit you to break WP:POINT and essentially and outright vandalize the Mediation Cabal page. If you feel as strongly after I am done posting this message, you can go to the Mediation Cabal talk page and discuss your feelings, but please don't change the page without consensus in the future. Thanks. CQJ 01:59, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

Please read our policy at WP:CIVIL concerning civility in dealing with other users here. While a block isn't due yet for this in my opinion, you're doing yourself harm by causing yourself to look incivil in the eyes of others here, and your reputation on Wikipedia is far more important than your block history. If you have questions, please feel free to ask, but read the policy first. Thanks. :) ~Kylu (u|t) 02:30, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

<eof>Yakuman 03:20, 28 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Yakuman The Censured

(edit conflict)First off, you deletied the line, we are the mediation cabal, or are we. Secondly, my name is False Prophet not dark prophet. (fixed it myself) Third, that is a standard warning and is the proceedure for warning vandalism. Fourth, Ive replaced the warning with a new one, and finaly even if you were right that it wasnt vandalism, you removed warnings over a contested edit without talking to the editor that placed the warning. That in itself is vandalism. Your removing of the joke is vandalism. It shows that the place is informal and supposed to be a bit funny, and removing it helps destroy that idea. Wikipedia's False Prophet holla at me Improve Me 03:25, 28 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Again, I'm forced to leave defamatory statements against myself standing. I deny these charges of vandalism, but am not allowed to present a reasonable defense. Yakuman 03:34, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

Yakuman, you're quite allowed to "present a defense" if you want, though try to assume good faith and see warnings for what they are: Warnings that your actions may be over the line. I'd actually suggest you read a few of the policy pages involved (they point them out, above) before continuing to edit, to make sure you're in compliance with the policies established by our community. It'd be nice to gain a valuable contributor, but it'd be sad to lose one because of an unwillingness to be familiar with the rules of the site you're posting to. Also, please be aware that attempting to change the Mediation Cabal isn't likely to change the outcome of the case that you have pending there. It's informal, and if you really don't want to be involved that much, say so, and move to a different venue. Take care, and have a good day! ~Kylu (u|t) 03:48, 28 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

As I said, I'm not allowed a reasonable defense. My understandably pointed explanations were answered with threats of censure.
I'm even flamed for accidentally referring to "False Prophet" as "Dark Prophet." This may fit Wikipedia's definition of civility,
but not mine.
Yakuman 05:14, 28 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, I should mention another defamatory statement in the interest of full disclosure. Someone derided my cabal discussion as
a "pointless topic[1]" I still get no right of response. This is civil behavior? Yakuman 05:24, 28 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Like I say below, no one's trying to defame you, and there's no reason to cite things like "full disclosure" or "threats of centure". Cowman referred to the topic as a pointless one because, well, it was pretty much you and me going back and forth on each other with False Prophet added in on the backside, and that was pretty much pointless and didn't really do anything except piss both of us off. See my apology/explanation below. CQJ 12:01, 28 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Epilogue

I found a paragraph[2] that sums up my analysis of this whole mess:

>Any casual review of edit-histories at Wikipedia suggests that power users, who spend several hours a day making small edits to numerous pages, often dominate discussions, and comprise the most active elements of the administrative ranks. Yet, people who are qualified and interested in administrative functions can hold quite different interests from these power users. Thus, outsiders, new users, and those constructively critical are often blocked from discussions under vague allegations, such as "trolling", or being a known "problem user". Such disputes are not limited to Wikipedia, but Wikipedia's administrators regularly invoke the power of their community, reasoning that such people are excluded for "behavioral reasons", not for critical policy arguments, when the truth was quite the opposite. Some administrators might not be adept at the personal or editorial skills which can best resolve conflicts among contributors. An inability or unwillingness among such untrained administrators to consistently articulate what they find problematic contributes to a less productive collaborative environment, and exacerbates conflicts.

Here's the way I explained it to Kylu[3]:

I dealt with "cabals" on FidoNet, Usenet and other *nets back in the day. It isn't really a joke. Consider how quickly I was met with threats and defamation. People who enforce "civility" on others, but do not apply it to themselves, only create problems. Have we learned nothing over the last two decades?

Yakuman 06:16, 28 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

On FidoNet? When was it?

P.S. And if you dealt with the Fidonet Cabal, even the Bomis Cabal here should seem quite innocent... CP/M ^comm |Wikipedia Neutrality Project| 09:39, 28 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I had the misfortune of running a FidoNet node. Usenet was actually an improvement. The greater the distance between the users and the sysadmins, the better. Y'all seem to want the bad old days back. Yakuman 23:02, 28 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Misfortune? I'm still there, and it doesn't seem quite bad - only dead silent. Cabal control everywhere, IMHO, gives Fidonet some originality today, which is not found elsewhere.

BTW, Wikipedia, as any large community, is also full of undeclared alliances, cabals, conspiracy theorists and practicioners, it's just that cabals here are less visible. Actually the Mediation Cabal is probably one of the least cabalish user groups - not because membership is open, but because most cases are held by one person, independently, in his (her) own way, with little or interaction with other members in the process, so they don't generally influence the mediation. All other dispres processes are much more collective and cabal-driven, with closed membership and private communication for MedCom or ArbCom, or with strong bias towards submitter, high influence of first comments and groupthink in RfC. Probably that's the point of the joke: one of the least cabalish groups calls itself a cabal. --CP/M ^comm |Wikipedia Neutrality Project| 17:17, 29 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Hm.

I've had some time to think this one out.

I apologize for my lack of good faith on your behalf. Please realize that I do tend to be a little tight within the spirit of the policy on Wikipedia policy as well, regardless, it was substantially ill of me to state that you were in an act of vandalism. However, with that said, let me explain where I was coming from.

I noticed that you were involved in a pending case at the Cabal. That, and your edit summary didn't quite sit well with me. Compared to some of the other processes and projects on Wikipedia, we are the most unCabal-like thing on Wikipedia. That's why the first paragraph reads the way that it does. Like I said earlier, this isn't Usenet, and the Cabal is a running joke, from the Rouge Administrator Cabal, to the Jimbo Wales Cabal, to the RfA Cabal, to even the Bot Cabal mentioned on IRC a few minutes ago. I felt as if you were jumping to conclusions about us before you'd even met a MedCabalist or even seen what we can or will do for a disputant in a case. I honestly thought from your summary, your content change, and the fact that you're a named disputant in a current new case that your edit was a sincere attempt to disrupt the project page, and that's why I reverted and said what I said to you. What irritated me more about the whole matter was that we were trying our very best not to break WP:BITE, but to me, you kept throwing the whole deal back in our faces and started to Wikilawyer on us.

Yakuman, no one here is trying to defame you, or belittle you, or to dissuade you from contributing. There are just certain things that aren't cool to other Wikipedia editors, and Wikilawyering is definitely one of them. Not reading policy is another one, hence why we posted links to the appropriate policies. Like Kylu said, the policy reminders are just that, reminders that things you're doing may or may not be within the scope of the policy, and it's a good idea to check them out if you're ever in doubt.

You're a smart guy, and we need more editors here that are intelligent and know what's going on. But that also entails reading and following the policies - including the ones that are established by general consensus. CP/M mentioned one of them - we generally don't mess with project space unless you're on the project or you see something blatantly out of place. Which is why I pointed you to the talk page.

Yakuman, I know you don't know me from anyone, but I've seen a lot of intelligent people who ended up either permanently blocked or in Arbitration. They were smart people, they knew their stuff, but they didn't follow the policies, and the community got sick of dealing with them and their shenanigans. And every time I run across someone that might fall in the same trap, I try to give them the same advice every time. And I usually don't take the time to do it like I'm doing today with you.

So, here's what I'm going to do. I'm going to recuse myself from your pending mediation case, and I'll encourage anyone else who's talked to you or warned you to do the same. But with that said, I think you might benefit from an informal mediator rather than the other dispute resolution processes, because informal mediation a la MedCab is the best, IMHO. If I didn't believe that, I wouldn't participate in the process, and I wouldn't spend the time to encourage you to stick with it.

In addition, you can get rid of all of the comments that you put back by simply creating an archive. Go to the top of this page, open an edit window, and put in [[User_talk:Yakuman/Archive 1|Archive]]. Cut the text you want to archive, save the page, click on the red link, and paste the text into the window. Save the page and you have an archive.

Let me know if you have further concerns or if there's something I can assist you with in the future. Truce? CQJ 11:53, 28 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your openness in following up, CQJ. My point has always been that name "cabal" is a contradiction for a voluntary mediation group, since it implies arbirary force. This has been my concern from the start, not personalities, nor any case concerning me. I comew in peace. 22:46, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

Here's a short piece of a long story about a different type of obsessive-compulsive character.

Paleoconservatism: Amount of Citation Requests

+ There is an absolutely ridiculous amount of requests for citations in the "Intellectual precursors and modern expositors" sections. I mean, does anyone really doubt that Mel Bradford is connected to paleoconservatism? + Plastering the article with citation requests like this is a really irritating and lazy approach, in my view. I should remove them all and request that if anyone has a problem with what has been written, that they raise the issues here on a case by case basis. + Maybe someone has gone on the rampage trying to make a point. + -Yakuman 18:12, 27 August 2006 (UTC)(language borrowed from the talk section in the Peter Hitchens article).

That's your opinion. My opinion is that posting unsourced content is lazy. My opinion is that complaining about being expected to provide sources is lazy. Wikipedia policy is on my side. If you'd like, you can remove unsourced content. The problem wouldn't have happened in the first place if people hadn't put unsourced content in the article. Now we need to do some drastic work to make the article comply with policy. I didn't cause the problem. I'm trying to fix the problem. You call it a "rampage". I say that extraordinary problems require extraordinary solutions I know that there have been statements made in the article that, when people complied with my demand for sources and I was able to review those sources, I found that the statements had no support.

Let's just agree to the neutral stance of adhering to Wikipedia policy and we'll create a good article - that is the goal isn't it?-Psychohistorian 19:09, 27 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Dozens of instances of requests in a single paragraph is just nuts. As to Wikipedia policy, well, truth is a defense. Is there really any doubt that Mel Bradford influenced paleoconservatism? --Yakuman

There wouldn't have been dozens of instances of requests in a single paragraph if the problem had been addressed when it was created. And truth is NOT a defense. Wikipedia policy explicitly states that whether content is verifiable (that is, sourced) takes precedence over whether or not it is true.-Psychohistorian

Image tagging for Image:Iriver-clix.jpg

Thanks for uploading Image:Iriver-clix.jpg. The image has been identified as not specifying the source and creator of the image, which is required by Wikipedia's policy on images. If you don't indicate the source and creator of the image on the image's description page, it may be deleted some time in the next seven days. If you have uploaded other images, please verify that you have provided source information for them as well.

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This is an automated notice by OrphanBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. 09:22, 29 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Well, Mr. Bot, its a manufacturer's promotional product shot. I tagged it as such. Why is that so hard to figure out? If I start geeting a bunch of baseless warnings about this topic, I will consider it harassment. Remember, I am an adult and wish to be treated as such. Bot messages ain't it. Yakuman 15:26, 29 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, Yakuman. I had deleted the link you added to R. L. Dabney's Defense of Virginia not because I wanted to hide his politics but because on a quick glance, it didn't seem like there was anything but bibliographic information at that link. So that readers don't make the same mistake, I have put a more direct link in its place. I also deleted the other link from UTexas because it adds nothing that is not already mentioned in the article (cf. #1 under WP:EL#Links_normally_to_be_avoided), and I removed the stub tag because, while the article could be expanded by a knowledgable editor, it would be difficult for someone else to do so (cf. WP:STUB). --Flex 17:58, 31 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Can we discuss this on the topic's talk page? Thanks. Yakuman 18:18, 31 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, It doesn't matter who is at fault right now. He as every right to request an Advocate. I am right now investgating his claims in order to best advise him. Please sit tight while this is happening. Æon ^{Insanity Now!}_EA! 22:16, 31 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Oh. He gets an "Advocate?" Like, a lawyer? Wow. Is this an encyclopedia or a role-playing game? If so, I want to be a 33rd level Alpha Male with a +2 sportscar and perfect teeth. Yakuman 22:18, 31 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Advocates are not Laywers. We advise and help users who are in disputs to help them either understand policy, under stand the DR process Ect. There are no laywers on Wikipedia and Wikilawyering is frowned upon Æon ^{Insanity Now!}_EA! 22:22, 31 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Hello again. Ihave reviewed the talk page of Voice of all and several other pages. You have made a few statements that clearly violate WP:CIVIL. Please donot be uncivil, it harms the community which in turn harms the wiki. Thank you Æon ^{Insanity Now!}_EA! 23:49, 31 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Here's what I wrote on the page you mention:

"I have no clue who you are, but you seem to be some sort of uber-geek. Psychohistorian is obsessed with verification and wants cites on virtually every proper noun. There are 100+ citations -- and one endorsement from a specialist -- on this article as of now. The George W. Bush page, the most disputed page here, only has 54 cites. The accuser refuses serious discussion, other than to demand MORE citations. This is silly. NOWHERE on Wikipedia is the extent of citations he demands enforced. Please block this troll for disruption, incivility, bad faith and vandalism."

Yakuman 00:43, 1 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

And requesting that he be blocked because he is a troll is Uncivil. He is attempting to edit in good faith by the looks of his edits. Æon ^{Insanity Now!}_EA! 00:46, 1 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]