sudancampaign.com[1]

savedarfur.org[2]

hurricane Katrina relief[3],[4]

User talk:Deeceevoice/Archive 1 User talk:Deeceevoice/Archive 2 User talk:Deeceevoice/Archive 3 User talk:Deeceevoice/Archive 4 User talk:Deeceevoice/Archive 5 User talk:Deeceevoice/Archive 6 User talk:Deeceevoice/Archive 7

The following, two posts were deleted by another editor, but I've chosen to restore them here. The first was posted to my user page, the second to my talk page in another location.

1. I most certainly agree. They should certainly not read any of the nonsense you write. I am an Arab from North Africa and I consider you a sudani nigger. To quote a famous Tunisian from the Southern Mediterranean : "...the Negro nations are, as a rule, submissive to slavery, because (Negroes) have little that is (essentially) human and possess attributes that are quite similar to those of dumb animals..."[32]

And yet another North Africa, from Egypt,Al-Abshibi: "It is said that when the [black] slave is sated, he fornicates, when he is hungry, he steals."[33]

How right they were! We dislike negros in the Southern Mediterranean and I can assure you that the berbers from my region are whiter than many europeans. The study you refer to is based on 40 desert nomads from the mauritanian region, which is not part of north africa though for some reason probably niggers like you it is sometimes. Geographically it is part of sub-saharan black africa. I think sudanis are dying because Allah hates them, they must be as stupid as you are nigger. If you ever visit my country, Tunisia, I will kill you or use you as my slave. By the way, did you know that in Libya they kill niggers like you? illegal niggers lol..you should stop dreaming and admit youre a nigger and focus on your black history which is im sad to say just in sub-saharan africa with huts and black magic and dances, that is what you niggers are good at: dancing like aniamls, sex , aids, drugs and stupidity! your brian is too small. (also posted by user at I.P. 68.90.116.243 12:19, 17 June 2007)

2.Hey, you are a nigger but why do you want to turn a white mediterranean north african civilization into a nigger animal one like yours? by the way, sudan is not part of north africa it is a black sub-saharan nigger country like you, nigger. oh, and if you visit one of our coutnries, we will lynch you like the nigger that you are, animal. I dont expect a nigger esp a self-hating one to understand simply notions like geography and race and maybe you are blind and see niggers everywhere but the truth hurts, black animal. (posted by user at I.P. 68.90.116.243. on my user page at 12:36, 17 June 2007)

I will address the only thing above worth addressing, the rest being the ridiculous, reprehensible ravings of a creature with ... obvious issues. A few results of Googling "North Africa" and sources which include Sudan in the region: [5][6][7] *x* deeceevoice 23:18, 17 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

This is some of the most disturbing stuff I've ever seen on the wikipedia. Yikes! What a creep. futurebird 00:24, 18 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

This is nothing. I've had swastikas, a photo of a lynched blackman, pornographic garbage and all sorts of racist vitriol posted to my talk and user pages. I've had a racist mental cretin stalk me around the website, trash talking me and the race, and the Wikipedia community said nothing, did nothing -- or criticized me when I responded (but never once with a racist attack). This guy's just another boil on the butt of the project. Neither he nor the project's systemic racism fazes me. He has accomplished nothing but reveal what an obviously troubled, spiritually stunted a**hole he is and get himself blocked for a day or two -- a slap on the wrist.

For my money, his hateful ass should be blocked from ever editing here again -- if for no other reason than he's too damned ignorant to be here. ;)

The project is riddled with entities/creatures that think (and I use that word in the broadest sense of the term) like it does. It's just that some are mindless and crude enough to come right out and say what's in their cesspool hearts, usually never signing in and neve revealing their true names -- cowards that they are -- and some remain silent on that score. They simply make a habit of twisting/perverting and edit warring articles with black content. You're relatively new here, hence your apparent surprise, but this is what I've come to expect from this place.

IMO, you'd do well to be ever mindful, futurebird, that this is hostile, enemy territory. deeceevoice 09:59, 18 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Unfortunately permanent blocks on IP's are not allowed. I take it you looked at the rest of his edits/rants? CambridgeBayWeather (Talk) 12:25, 18 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Oh, yeah. Right. Forgot he didn't sign in. Such creeps rarely do. No, I haven't looked at any of his comments elsewhere. Frankly, I have better things to do! I just saw the obvious stuff because I check my user and talk pages from time to time. deeceevoice 12:48, 18 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

WP:RBI. I appreciate your patience Deeceevoice. -- FayssalF - ^{Wiki me up®} 09:40, 21 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Blackface in Rocket Festivals doesn't belong anywhere but on a talk page, I've decided, as the reversal of the Phadaeng Nang Ai legend doesn't satisfy WP's criteria for a notable myth. I think I'm going to stay altogether away from Black people, too, even though my Isan wife and all her friends consider her one. Black/white is an Issue in Thailand, but I don't have access to Credible, Scholarly Sources, just the people I know. Drop by my talk page some time -- if you ever have the time! Pawyilee 12:05, 24 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I did leave in this statement: "If he is poor, his rocket may blow up in his face (hence clowns in black face in some parades), but he is the one most likely to win the favor of a village Nāng Ai." But left the Black face article as you changed it. Pawyilee 17:21, 26 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Re Greetings. Thanks! I left an 824-word reply for you on my Talk page. Pawyilee 16:26, 7 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I rili loved the part on netherlands and the link, to the research. I anyhow hate the whole commerce stuf, including bishops eg. but it is interesting that you notice that there has been international attention to the subject over the years. If the word media silence menas anything it must have been close. I have always lived under the impression that every country would be crowded with such horrid traditions:/ I must say i have difficulty in finding 'darky faces' more problematic then other advertisements and merchandise, however it is an obvious point. (hated it) Personally i have been paying some attention to the (rather dumb and boring on the national level) subject of its controversial character. What i think is overestimated in the research is the impact of the dutch (or other people) on their own opinions. It is actually the commerce,(capitalism, captured trade) if needed up to the national level that prescribes that this farce must go on. That usual people hardly understand what it does to them if the children of the shopkeeper (eg.) smile better, apparently suffices. And i fear that would suffice anywhere.77.248.56.242 22:53, 30 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I'm only just now seeing your comments. The sort of advertising referred to in the article is far more "problematic" than run-of-the-mill junk cranked out by capitalists to encourage spending. It is insulting and offensive and perpetuates racist stereotypes. What makes it particularly disgusting is that it is directed at the very young. Still, IMO, it's all too easy to blame only those seeking to profit materially from such an appalling practice. There is, of course, a deeply racist element in Dutch society to which this kind of crap appeals as well. deeceevoice 08:40, 1 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not that familiar with wiki policies in regards to user talk pages, so feel free to delete this if this is totally out of line...but I was reading the discussion on the 'gremlins' article about the (alleged) racism in the movie. I don't have much to contribute on that specific movie, because I haven't seen it; I was curious if you actually believed that the movie was *purposefully* racist. I can see how the stereotype of rap music=violent/criminal came to be, considering some of the prevalant themes in (popular) rap, but I would think white rap listeners are more likely to actually act on it than blacks. I would also think that any racism displayed would be symptoms of a larger cultural problem and not any individual's beliefs, the same way the changes made from Crichton's Timline (novel) to the film version completely annihilated any strong, independent, intelligent women and replaced them with your usual Damsel in Distress archetype. And don't even try to pull the "you're white so what do you know" card. ;) I got my honorary minority card by marrying one. Jett rink 20:31, 6 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I couldn't care a whit about the screenwriter's personal beliefs. The info about the movie being seen as racist pertains strictly to his product/creation. IMO, the movie was, indeed, racist. But what I think doesn't matter. The controversy was a very real one and much discussed at the time of the movie's release.

With regard to your comment about rap, stereotyes of black men as violent, depraved and criminal far predate gangsta rap -- a phenomenon which, incidentally, postdates this flick. At the time the movie came out, breakdancing and rap were still phenomena largely confined to black and Latino communities.

It hadn't occurred to me to "pull the 'you're white so what do you know' card." But since you've brought it up, don't pull the "I married one, and some of my best friends are" -- because if whites sleeping black meant they weren't racist, then we wouldn't have had all those slaveholders with half-black babies listed among their property, and we wouldn't have so many screwed up mulatto children comin' out of mixed marriages.

BTW, let me know the next time you're out driving alone, or just walking down the street and get stopped, frisked or roughed up by a cop for no damned reason. Is it because you've got "I'M MARRIED TO A NEGRESS (or some other person of color)" emblazoned across your forehead? Bet not. So, hell, no. Marrying one of us doesn't give you an honorary membership card, and it certainly doesn't mean you automatically know or understand.

Oh, and news flash: if you're white, you ARE the minority.

Don't mistake my frankness for rancor -- but you brought it up. Peace. deeceevoice 00:31, 7 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Rancor is perfectly acceptable considering it appears I didn't say anything even vaguely intelligent. I'd like to pretend it's a language barrier, but probably not. In my defense, the "honorary minority card" and everything related was a bit of a rib--I'm really not amused when people expect gold stars for being friends with "Others," or when they use that as a cover-up for their bigotry. On the other hand, I generally don't appreciate being cut out just because of *my* demographics. True, I hardly know what it's like to be randomly frisked (--Ryan says he was only breaking the law 90% of the time he's been harrassed by the police), etc, but that doesn't automatically mean I'm walking around with my head shaved claiming that the white man is being held down by the special treatment everyone else is getting.

Statistically, I may be the minority as a white man; politically, I'm not. I may get a few points taken off for being a homo, but I can always go on the downlow and solve that problem.

I'm not trying to argue with you at all, because we're on the same side, and I'm very confident that you know a whole lot more about what we're talking about than I do. Only other question being, what books/authors would you reccomend, if any, regarding race in America? Jett rink 16:25, 9 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Again, no rancor -- just frank-speak. I'm not invested in what you think about race. In fact, I long ago stopped caring what white people think of black folks. I certainly don't point-score them, and I don't make recommendations to white people about books to read -- because, frankly, I don't have a clue what would make sense to them in helping them resolve/come to terms with whatever issues they may have. Besides, I generally don't read books about "race in America" -- except maybe in the broadest of terms. I'm thinking a trip to the local library or bookstore would be more informative than any exchange with me on the matter. Peace. deeceevoice

Per your request, I have semi-protected your user and talk pages. If you, at any time want them unprotected, please contact me or any other administrator. I hope this helps. --rogerd 18:35, 15 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I reverted more trolling by the same user as before. Unfortunately, he is now been registered for more than four days, so the semi-protection doesn't help. --rogerd 02:02, 22 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

FYI, that troll (User:Rillio) was banned on Aug 3 for his trolling and sockpuppeting (he is apparently the same person as another banned user, User:Chichichihua). If you need anything, let me know. Peace. --rogerd 13:13, 16 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your comments, I just now have a chance to get back to you. I grew up with 60's rock and roll, like the Stones, Hendrix, Eric Clapton and the Allman Brothers. I few years ago, I started thinking about how all of them were heavily influenced by old time blues artists, and started really getting into the Blues. I now listen to them as much as I do rock and roll. It's too bad that there are no radio stations in my area that play the blues. My local NPR station plays a show called "Nothin' but the Blues" on Saturdays, but I wish there was more. Whenever I ride with someone who has XM satellite radio, I try to listen to channel 74 "Bluesville", which is a good mix of old and new blues. --rogerd 02:02, 22 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I awarded you purple star for dealing with numerous personal attacks from others while diplomatically contributing to Wikipedia. Keep up the good work! Wiki Raja 20:45, 10 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Gee, thanks, Raj. :) I guess that means someone's been killed or wounded in battle? Well, I'm not dead. I'm not wounded -- but, presumably, unfortunately, perhaps one of my people has been hurt by the "race"-based invectives hurled my way. So, my dear brother, I accept the star in their behalf. Bless. deeceevoice 03:30, 11 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I don't know if you are still around, but I find it funny that User:Stbalbach feels the same way you do about Wikipedia's cabals. (See his talk page) On another note, you seem to be getting really upset about a website you already think is crap. I've found that the best way to deal with admins is to stay so calm that they can't do anything to you. That, and maybe putting on a front and acting like one of the good ol' boys so you can become an admin. I haven't tried it, because I don't care as much as you do. And, well, I never edit controversial topics. (I had my comments deleted too many times on Intelligent Design. Fortunately, some more esteemed editors made my points for me.)

Anyways, here's hoping your permablock is/has been overturned.

-- trlkly 03:43, 16 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Who says I'm angry? That would give these ... entities power over me. If I ever catch myself feeling aggravated/annoyed, I simply catch myself and say, "Don't." It's that simple.

And I never was "permablocked." I haven't/never really kept track of any of all that, but I'm assuming that whatever block you're referring to expired months ago. I just haven't bothered to change my user page since, well, forever.

I have absolutely no desire to be an administrator -- never did. And there's no way I could or would pretend to be anything other than what I am. What you read is what you get. No subterfuge, no sockpuppets, no simpering. I'm pretty much in your face. What can I say? To know me is to love me. ;) Bless. dee.

Hi,

Thought you would be interested in checking out the makevover for WikiProject Dravidian civilizations. Enjoy!

Wiki Raja 23:09, 25 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Hi,

Here is the outcome of the final decision for AfD on the Dravidian civilizations article:

Once again, thank you for your input in the matter. Regards. Wiki Raja 21:32, 5 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Hi,

The debate on the Dravidian civilizations talk page now is if Dravidians are related or not to the Indigenous Australians and/ or East Africans. Could you take a look at that page and give your input, along with some other users you know who would like to give their input too here? Wiki Raja 22:42, 8 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I haven't talked to you in a bit; I worked a bit on jazz and blackface with you a while back. Anyway, I am currently putting together a symposium thing of sorts, and wondered if you'd like to contribute. If you might be interested, could you email me for details? It's noahberlatsky at hotmail.

I'll expect it to take a while since you're not here that much anymore. Hope you're well, NoahB 19:03, 14 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Have you considered making some contributions over at Jena Six? I think a perspective like yours is sorely missing from the writing and editing of that article. Qworty 04:48, 27 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Not really, but thanks. I haven't seen it. I'm too busy dealing with such issues in the real world -- the Jena Six among them, actually. Peace. deeceevoice 10:44, 27 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Hey, dcv. You seem to be quite busy at the moment, but I thought I'd alert you to some discussion going on at Talk:Blackface. Another user wants to remove a lot of material from the article regarding blackface's influence in world popular culture since minstrelsy. They seem willing to discuss, but I've so far been unable to convince them that the article is fine as it is. This person also has concerns about the sources cited in the article, and although I've been doing my best to address their comments, my time on Wiki is also pretty limited right now, so it's been slow-going. They seem eager to start cutting material from the article despite the talk page discussion. Hope all is well with you. — Brian (talk) 21:40, 27 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It's the same guy who's been screwing around with Jazz. He's doing his best to whitewash that article, overemphasize Jews in Jazz, downplaying its African/black roots, etc. "Jazz" is now pretty much utter crap -- and no longer a featured article. My guess is this guy is going for pretty much the same thing at "Blackface." But, frankly, I have no time. I'm an activist. I'm dealing with all kind of real-world sh*t -- and I don't have the time or the patience to deal with a website that, frankly, is a cesspool of abysmal ignorance, arrogance and racism. I appreciate your efforts, Brian. I really do, but I'm dealing with far more immediate/exigent things going on right now than Wikipedia. If the article doesn't survice, I'm confident that, as with "Jazz" there are enough sites in cyberspace quoting the old article -- in fact, outright plagiarizing it, that it'll be around somewhere. Unfortunate, though, the majority of people will come to Wikipedia looking for good iformation and get crap. Thank goodness for the forks and mirrors and just flat-out plagiarizers (I see my writing all over the place these days), because after a time, there won't be anything at all useful on Wikipedia about black people -- from the article on the "race" of the Ancient Egyptians, to "black people" to the "Great Sphinx of Giza" and on and on.

You're fighting a losing battle in an enterprise where any ignorant, opinionated/racist asshole with a computer and an ISP can edit. Peace. deeceevoice 11:59, 28 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I decided to get in your business (I love reading other peoples' talk pages) and I added some references to the article that I hope will prevent further deletions, by this guy. I guess I should look at the Jazz article too... sigh... this is tiresome.futurebird 20:11, 28 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, fb. I simply have neither the time nor the patience. (I haven't even been back to take a look at cool aesthetic since I last posted there.) deeceevoice 20:31, 28 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Just thought I'd drop by and see how you were doing. Glad to see you're still here and still editing. Guettarda 14:38, 28 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Heya, babe. :D I'm really not. (See the post above.) I'm certainly not doing any serious writing. I just drop in when I need a break from deadlines at my computer. And now that blackface is apparently under attack, I probably won't bother even doing that. After a while, this crap just gets really, really, really old. Bless. dee 28 September 2007

I hear you. Writing is still fun, but the politics and fights makes it barely worth dropping by. But there are still lots of good people that are nice to run into. Guettarda 20:03, 28 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

User:Deeceevoice, a page you created, has been nominated for deletion. Your opinions on the matter are welcome; please participate in the discussion by adding your comments at Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/User:Deeceevoice and please be sure to sign your comments with four tildes (~~~~). You are free to edit the content of User:Deeceevoice during the discussion but should not remove the miscellany for deletion template from the top of the page; such removal will not end the deletion discussion. Thank you. —[[Animum | talk]] 17:39, 30 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It's since been withdrawn. —[[Animum | talk]] 18:10, 30 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Gee, Animum. Thanks for giving me permission to edit my own freaking user page. The issue you need to consider is what gives you the right to do so? Get a life. Hands off my user page.deeceevoice 19:38, 30 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Wow. I thought I had seen everything! futurebird 21:42, 30 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

This is nothing. And this isn't the first time. Over time, several users, including Wiki admins have blanked my page. Once, there was even an edit war of sorts as some admins blanked the page and then others restored it. (Downright silly.) And then Jimo Wales himself deleted my user page -- giving me absolutely no opportunity to salvage anything on it once (rude!) because it contained a commentary of the systemic bias and racism I had encountered on Wikipedia and because I kept or replicated some of the racist crap that had been posted to it and my talk page there. He "invited" me to discuss my criticism of Wikipedia, and others threatened me with "disciplinary action" if I did not. And then when I did set out the problems of the site at length, not a single soul participated/responded -- and certainly not ol' Jimbo himself. lol Gurl, you don't know the half of it. deeceevoice 22:07, 30 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

That's really absurd. Who has time for it? Why can't people just find things that they know about and make the wiki better? You know? I think these kinds of things drive people away, and then we end up wondering why all of the articles relted to African topics are in such poor shape. A lot of people I know want to start an "afro-pedia" but I'm not in to that: separate never was equal-- Still, I wish there was more wide-spread acknowledgment of the problems that face the wikipedia. futurebird 23:32, 30 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I'm definitely in favor of an Afropedia. The way this project is structured, serious, learned, treatments of subjects related to black people will never happen, because most here are white, virtually all whites are racist, and virtually all of them have been inculcated with euroecentric values, eurocentric notions of world history -- and they're arrogant and hidebound in what they don't know. Separate might not be equal in terms of resources or input -- but separate definitely could be better in terms of quality and accuracy. deeceevoice 03:09, 1 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I think you make a good case for it. But, I'd have a hard time pulling away. There are so many things here that are such a mess, that it makes me scared when I think about how many people take what the wiki says as "truth" -- I think the trend is moving more towards that over time. futurebird 03:36, 1 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

An Afropedia soon would gain the reputation of quality, reliable, well-resourced information on subjects relating to Africans on the continent and in the diaspora. People might still check Wikipedia first -- but they'd also consult Afropedia. And it would need a different editorial structure. This business of any clueless half-wit with a computer and an ISP being able to come in and obliterate or twist months and months of quality, thoughtful work in less than a day is absurd. This place is hopeless. It won't/can't change. What is needed is a counterbalance to the bullsh*t. This place really isn't worth the constant hassle with opinionated ignorance. deeceevoice 03:58, 1 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Agree. I'll put it in the back of my mind for the day that never seems to come when I have time. By the way did you know there's no page for Encyclopedia Africana? futurebird 04:14, 1 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

And why does that surprise you?! And the sad thing it's probably a good thing.deeceevoice 08:14, 1 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Through all that, Animum couldn't be bothered to try to engage you in discussion? Not even once? (All he posted was boilerplate). Makes you wonder how many potential contributors get run off when their first article is speedy-deleted by someone who can't be bothered to explain to them what they did wrong. Guettarda 04:23, 1 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Precisely, Guettarda. deeceevoice 08:14, 1 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

::(Personal attack removed):: How did this user get to be an admin? futurebird 04:53, 1 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

(Comment by futurebird restored. This is hardly a personal attack.)

futurebird, again, this is nothing compared to what some admins up in here have done/are doing -- nothing. I didn't even notice the (expletive withheld) was an administrator, but it doesn't surprise me one bit. Rudeness, flat-out lying, complete lack of judgment, instigating conflict, violating the same guidelines they posture at enforcing. In my case, hounding me and fabricating infractions -- all the while completely ignoring the blatantly antagonistic/racist conduct of others. Oh, yeah. Afropedia. deeceevoice 08:27, 1 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Even disregarding the sensitive situation, these attacks on user pages are completely out of order. There is considerable latitude for users to add information about themselves including information about their areas of interest and likes and dislikes. The guideline Wikipedia:User page#Ownership and editing of pages in the user space indicates how to raise concerns about user page content, and there's no excuse for breaching the Wikipedia:Civility policy. So, sorry you've been having this hassle, it's wise not to be too bound up in this project and have more important things to do. However, any continuing input it suits you to give will be much appreciated. I've added Jazz to my watchlist, and will try to improve matters when current rush jobs are sorted out. Mind you, while the points you raise are the most blatant example of bias, I'm a bit miffed that there's no mention of the significance of Trad. ;) ... dave souza, talk 09:51, 1 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think I said it. JP, Guettarda, futurebird -- thanks for lookin' out. deeceevoice 11:25, 1 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The first time I ran across you was your insightful and helpful comment at Talk:African American culture that the article "Needs much work -- preferably by someone black". I don't know who died and made you HNIC, but there's no need to disparage the work of other editors — including Black editors — who have worked on the article, especially User:Crownjewel82, who is Black and put a hell of a lot of work into getting the article to Good Article status.

So am I touchy when you knock the article in an edit summary — "Grits? lol Grits isn't cultivated; it's processed"? No, just interpreting the comment in light of an editor's previously expressed contempt for other editors who have contributed to the article. — Malik Shabazz (Talk | contribs) 21:31, 2 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

You're still at it, huh? Too much coffee? lol If an article needs work, it needs work. Such a comment may not have anything to do with the quality of the work already done. It may refer to an absence of information or the need for a broader scope. And expressing the hope that black editors will come on board also is not a commentary on who may (or may not have) contributed before. Take a chill pill. Otherwise, don't bother to post here. I really don't have time for this silliness. deeceevoice 21:36, 2 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I've deleted your userpage after many concerns over the inappropriateness of the content there. Please remember that Wikipedia is not a soapbox. If you wish to contest the deletion, feel free to do so at the ANI post. --D_arkF_alls ^talk 10:30, 3 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

My God, will the persecution of this user never stop? For the moment, I've piped in over at ANI to let DarkFalls try to justify himself. — Brian (talk) 10:44, 3 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

This can hardly be equated with persecution. Please cease with those typical straw man arguments. — Nearly Headless Nick {C} 12:40, 3 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I have restored the page as the WP:AN/I discussion seems to concur with my opinion that the deletion was a nonsense, but I have edited out the soapboxing - it's not helpful and is contrary to what Wikipedia is supposed to be for. Let me know if you have any questions about this. Neil ム 12:30, 3 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with Brian. Deeceevoice seems to receive an amount of criticism and abuse far in excess of that meted out to other editors with controversial opinions and robust argumentative style. As far as I can see, DC is editing here in good faith and in general tries to work within community norms. -- The Anome 12:36, 3 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

That doesn't make her anymore different than us. As a Wikipedian since January 2006 I have received my fair share of abuses and criticism as well. I don't expect others to give me liberty for blatant soapboxing in my userspace. — Nearly Headless Nick {C} 12:40, 3 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Dude, have at it! Post a rant! I don't care what you do. Just leave other users alone. It's not your job to tell others what they can or can't do in their userspace, Nick. — Brian (talk) 12:45, 3 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

errr, yes it is - especially if a user is going against WP:USER. Ryan Postlethwaite 12:48, 3 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I think what is needed now is for everyone to cool down a bit. Clearly DC is severely pissed off right now, and blasting away at other editors on the presumption that they are white and therefore racist is clearly unacceptable (and, indeed, potentially open to accusations of racism in itself). However, I am sympathetic to DC's concerns that black editors are underrepresented on Wikipedia, and the apparent ganging up on DC leaves a bad taste in my mouth. (Just to be clear, I am not suggesting that DC's opponents in this issue are acting in bad faith or being racist, either.) -- The Anome 12:50, 3 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

You don't get it, Anome. At all. I laughed when I read your characterization of my mood. "Clearly DC is severely pissed off right now...." You couldn't be more incorrect. My comments are not emotional; they are merely a forthright statement on the state of affairs at Wikipedia. There seems to be far more emotionalism on display here than on my user page. And "ganging up"? I've been busy with deadlines and had no idea any of this crap was going on on my talk page. This is funny as hell. deeceevoice 13:09, 4 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Brian, relax. The user space belongs to the community and not one user. We are here to collaborate and to make an encyclopedia, not to post divisive comments against another's ethnicity. — Nearly Headless Nick {C} 12:52, 3 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I'm glad you've got it all figured out, Nick. I'm glad that Wikipedia has finally gotten to a point when expressing an opinion is considered "divisive". I'm glad that we've decided that free speech among our members is dangerous and must be suppressed. I'm just disappointed that I haven't been subsumed into the Collective as well as I should be to agree with you. — Brian (talk) 22:06, 3 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I can certainly agree with you on that. Let's see if we can chill out a bit, and forward the encyclopedia. -- The Anome 13:04, 3 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

...and blasting away at other editors on the presumption that they are white and therefore racist is clearly unacceptable

So what you are saying is that if someone thinks there is racism they can't say anything about because it's uncivil? I don't think that makes any sense. I don't know why deeceevoice is being attacked, but it is really one of the most unfair and disheartening this I've ever seen on the wikipedia. I think there is a lot of truth in the things that she writes, especially the part about systemic bias. But frankly, even if she is wrong, 'it's not a personal attack to point out *actions* that you think are unfair. Everyone needs to be able to do that. We shouldn't hide form criticism. futurebird 14:40, 3 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Ditto. What fb said. If you don't like reading the criticism/critique, then don't read my user page. 'S easy enough. Use your web browser and move on. deeceevoice 13:09, 4 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Please see this enforcement report and my response. Thatcher131 17:14, 3 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Silly, time-wasting business. Sorry to the usual "suspects" -- but thanks. Others, get a life. Please. Me? I've got deadlines to attend to. deeceevoice 13:09, 4 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

		The Barnstar of Diligence
		For all your hard work on African American culture. futurebird 16:36, 3 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

You're way too generous! But thanks, sis. :) deeceevoice 13:12, 4 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

		The Minor Barnstar
		For all the little changes made to keep the WP:AFRO homepage up to date. CJ 17:38, 4 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

This is really funny. (Do they have a minor minor barnstar?) Thanks, CJ. deeceevoice 18:46, 4 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

		The Purple Plush Tiktaalik Award
		Quoting the Bonzo Dog Band's The Doughnut in Granny's Greenhouse, can blue men sing the whites, or are they hypocrites? A silly purple award for a cool response to off-colour remarks. dave souza, talk 11:24, 6 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Added link to The Suns of Independence. Ahmadou Kourouma. book review by Danny Yee Pawyilee 10:38, 6 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I know you're busy, but you have given a lot of good advice, and I respect you very much. Can you please sign this [8] so we have enough to help bring this article to FA? You have been working on it, as I see you right now. lol. I don't know how this works, really. As when I signed it said it only needed 4 sigs, now it's jumped to 8. I don't understand that. I wonder if the more sign, the number of needed sigs jumps again? Well, we have six so far, and if you sign it will be 7. I asked another e-buddy to sign too, hoping it makes the it. TIA. Jeeny ^(talk) 06:07, 9 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I was hesitant to sign the article improvement page. Unfortunately, given the nature of Wikipedia, I've found that the less attention an article treating black subject matter receives from the general editing population, the better it may proceed. But done. Thanks for looking me up, and I appreciate your comment. Bless. :) deeceevoice 06:13, 9 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you. Oh, I understand. I was just reading your user page, about some of the ignorant messages you recieved from idiots on Wikipedia. I too have had swastikas and other repulsive crap added to my talk page. I also have been blocked before because these sneaky ignorants had the gall to report me, and no one did any investigation. He and others are blocked indef for now... yet now I have a record. Oh well. Sadly, I know they'll be back. I have a love hate relation with this friggen place. There are a ton of them here. :( I feel obligated to stay because of this. Jeeny ^(talk) 06:22, 9 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I'm feelin' ya, Jeeny. But I don't -- on both counts. Mine is a hate-hate relationship, and I don't feel obligated in any way to this hell hole. ;p deeceevoice 06:28, 9 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

lol! I love you! Jeeny ^(talk) 06:44, 9 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for your support of the Article Improvement Drive. This week African American culture was selected to be improved to featured article status. Hope you can help.

CJ 10:37, 10 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Wiki Raja 04:43, 13 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Slammin'. Wow. Love the banner. The only thing I'm wondering is why it has no color. Still, very, very nice. (Of course, I got no clue what the script says.) I remain impressed by your hard work on subject matter treating people of color for the project. Blessings.  :) deeceevoice 07:01, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

I know, an admin made this banner and I have contacted her about the coloration of the wordings. From left to right, (Kannada script - Namaskara), (Telugu script - Namaskaramu), (Malayalam script - Namaskaram), (Tamil script - Vanakkam). They all say Greetings. Wiki Raja 07:11, 13 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Wouldn't it be great if we could just download languages into our brains and become instantaneously literate/fluent in the tongues of our choice? I wish, I wish, I wish.... That and world peace/justice for humankind -- and the environment (smiling toothily and giving a beauty pageant wave)

"Thank you. Thank you very much." ;)

It's back to deadlines for me. Elvis has now left the building.... deeceevoice 07:22, 13 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Special thanks should go to Persian Poet Gal since she was the one who created the banner. Wiki Raja 05:39, 17 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I don't believe that calling out other editors on your user page is appropriate, and as you know full well, saying, "Am I calling John Smith a racist? You decide." is merely a rhetorical device. It is not an appropriate use of user space to incite or spread divisive personal attacks against specific users. I generally defend the use of your user space to complain about systematic bias at Wikipedia but not extended to naming specific individuals. And, all such uses of user space are privileges, not rights. Please remove it, or I will take whatever steps are necessary. Thatcher131 13:06, 21 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Thatcher's right on this. Just drop the name. --jpgordon^∇∆∇∆ 15:50, 21 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Better? ;) deeceevoice 16:26, 22 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Hmm. You're still targeting an individual editor, as anyone who actually looks at the diff will know. --jpgordon^∇∆∇∆ 17:10, 22 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not explicitly naming anyone. It's useless to try to convincingly discuss systemic bias or admin misconduct in vague and general terms. Diffs provide evidence. If one cares to look at the examples provided, they're there. And unless one edits anonymously, then of course those who care to take note will see the name. If people do not wish to be associated with their edits in any way, then they should edit anonymously or not at all. deeceevoice 19:03, 22 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I've been reviewing Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Deeceevoice and the enforcements state that "Deeceevoice is prohibited from using her user page to publish offensive rants." I find a lot of the userpage offensive including the sentence "Wikipedia is a f***ing runaway freight train headed straight to hell. It's downright and despicably dangerous." I would suggest that you remove all soapboxing from your userpage as it's not only against WP policy, it's also in violation of the enforcement of your arbitration. Thanks Wikidudeman ^(talk) 15:29, 24 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I suggest comments like this about Wikipedia are perfectly acceptable, and that you need to raise your personal filters regarding offensiveness. --jpgordon^∇∆∇∆ 15:46, 24 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not here to endlessly entertain other people's opinions about my user page. And I certainly couldn't care less what WDM thinks about my page. This discussion is closed. deeceevoice 16:29, 24 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not sure if you are aware but this is being discussed in the Administrato'r Noticeboard, just tought you should know. - Caribbean~H.Q. 16:34, 24 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

This is getting ridiculous. It's borderline badgering. (I know 'bout badgering lol) Jeeny ^(talk) 16:38, 24 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Pursuant to JPGordon's comments above, I have removed the links to specific edits that you were using to "call out" a specific editor. If you reinstate them, I will remove them and protect the page. Please note that I agree with the general sense of your complaint that there is substantial systemic bias here, and I think editors should leave you alone (as long as you are willing to do the same). Note however that there is a big difference between user boxes that say "This user opposes denial of the Armenian Genocide" (to cite an example currently at WP:AE), and "User Joe Smith has made racist edits." I have no problem with a general complaint against bias on Wikipedia or with your statements of support for various causes. You can not call out other editors. Thatcher131 16:38, 24 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• • As I said, and pursuant to your Arbitration case, I have reverted and protected your user page. Thatcher131 17:22, 24 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

*Hey, I can't edit your userpage, to fix some typos. It's bugging me. Nevermind. It was reverted. Jeeny ^(talk) 17:24, 24 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Deeceevoice can request unprotection if she is willing to agree to stop naming specific editors, as discussed above, or she may use {{edit protected}} to request an admin to fix typos etc. on her behalf. Thatcher131 17:26, 24 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

What the hell is the matter with you? Don't you have anything better to do with your time on Wikipedia? Don't answer that. Tragically, obviously not. I've named no one on my user page. And it's perfectly legitimate to provide links. I've been through this before. Where do you get off making a change and then locking the page to the version you prefer? If there's another, more sensible admin around who's got a problem with this, then I invite you to do what's right. I have deadlines to attend to. *x* deeceevoice 17:29, 24 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

You were naming User:Stbalbach. Wikidudeman ^(talk) 17:38, 24 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, that's gone now; you're the only one naming him now. --jpgordon^∇∆∇∆ 17:41, 24 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah. And it was gone when YOU objected to the link. deeceevoice 17:42, 24 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Shrug. I don't like unnecessary drama, and the links were creating that. I'm outta here. --jpgordon^∇∆∇∆ 17:50, 24 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

You don't like drama, then talk to the drama queens. Linking to wiki content on one's user page is not forbidden. Thatcher is out of line and you're off the mark. No one has to visit my page or my talk page. Vote with your web browser and step off. *x* deeceevoice 17:58, 24 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

You are invited to appeal to the Arbitration Committee. Thatcher131 18:04, 24 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

You're repeating yourself, which I find a bore and a waste of space. I've already commented. I've got nothing else to say to you. Now go make yourself useful -- if you can. deeceevoice

This discussion is closed.

Not until your user page is unprotected. I came here to vandalize it with some graffiti, for bringing due weight back into the article on jazz. Guess it will have to wait. Pity, I wish people found Wikipedia's articles more interesting than its user pages. Chidongo's sculpture isn't smiling either. Take care, deeceevoice. ---Sluzzelin talk 10:04, 25 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for clarifying the references to Creole on the Jazz article. Just a wee point that seems a bit of a discrepancy to me. You've added a picture of Bolden to Louisiana Creole people with the caption saying he was a dark-skinned Afro-Creole, or "Creole of color". This article cites Morton as saying "He was a Negro, yes.. . . . No, no . . . he was light complected. He was what you call a light brown skin boy.” Perhaps someone else would be a better example. However, the images suggest he was darker-skinned in comparison with the photos of Jelly Roll Morton. Do you know if Morton would have been called a "Creole of color"? Don't bother too much with this, just that it's all a bit puzzling to me. ... dave souza, talk 21:29, 23 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Bolden would be considered a Creole of color; he was obviously black (as opposed to someone like Audubon, who essentially passed for white/lived as a white man and was born of a slave owning father). Jelly Roll Morton -- I don't know if he considered himself a Creole at all, and as far as I know, only his father was Creole -- and Afro-/black Creole at that. My description of Bolden could be in error. In the photos I've seen of him, he appears fairly brown-skinned. But it could be the quality of the photos. Feel free to delete that description from the caption. My point in adding Bolden's photo was to show that lots of people who were clearly black by any "racial" categorization were called Creoles. Verklempt seemed intent in Jazz upon classifying the Creoles involved in early jazz as something other than black people, when it is quite clear that ethnically and by lineage they were black people, were accepted by blacks as black people and were assimilated into non-Creole black communities -- when they did not resist it (and many, convinced they were better than their often darker-skinned brethren did). Afro-Creoles were consigned to black communities after the change in the law classified them as black. They collaborated with non-Afro-Creole blacks to produce jazz. So, what we're discussing here is a segment of the black community, temporarily accorded certain rights and privileges, who would have been considered and treated as black people (read "discriminated against") any other place in the U.S., but who, by virtue of the peculiarities of New Orleans culture -- a society highly stratified by ethnic admixture and skin color -- they often were not). deeceevoice 22:55, 23 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, that fits with what I've been reading. The website and Morton's recollections probably don't count as a RS to some people, so no big deal. The biggest change I'd think of would be to change from "dark skinned" to "brown skinned", but that's probably unnecessary. Will watch out for any better example, all the best, .. dave souza, talk 00:35, 24 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

You won't care about this, and neither do I. But you know something? I have never, in 45 years, encountered a single racist who could see the ugliness of their racism for what it is. Have you?

I honestly couldn't believe you would accuse an entire segment of being racist based solely on ... their skin color!

Things that make ya go "Hmmmm"...

PS: your indictment of WP's systemic bias, on the other hand, is among the most articulate and cogent arguments I have seen around here. Obviously, I feel you are wrong in your assessment of the project's future, and I hope you find time to keep bringing this up, as the WP process needs intelligent and forthright editors like you to do just that. Ofc, activism in the "real world" is probably more attractive to you than activism here, which is our loss, IMO.

Eaglizard 18:17, 25 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

"I honestly couldn't believe you would accuse an entire segment of being racist based solely on ... their skin color!"

Don't know where you got that, but good -- because I didn't. deeceevoice 08:49, 26 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for uploading or contributing to Image:Giant mag Rihanna cover.jpg. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is not a suitable explanation or rationale as to why each specific use in Wikipedia constitutes fair use. Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale.

If you have uploaded other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on those pages too. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that any non-free media lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. NOTE: once you correct this, please remove the tag from the image's page. STBotI 13:38, 28 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia:Stub types for deletion/Log/2007/October/31 The African diaspora and African american stub categories are up for deletion. CJ 01:53, 2 November 2007 (UTC) {subst:di-orphaned fair use-notice|1=Wynton Marsalis.jpg}} Jusjih 02:09, 3 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

CJ wants you to be nicer. She thinks you start to many arguments. I sort agree. Now I'm feeling sheepish about getting on you case at all because some of the time some things just need to be said... but do you think you could assume good faith a little more? I know that's a hell of a lot to ask when enough things have happened that you don't have any "good faith" left. But, yeah. futurebird 04:39, 3 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

That's just precious. CJ is the one who started off getting the a** with me in a series of talk-page exchanges (along with that guy who signs Malcolm X's Muslim name) for daring to say that the article on AA culture (or history; I don't recall) needed serious work -- and it did (still does?).

Furthermore, if she has something to say to me, presumably, she's a grown-up. She can say it herself.

As far as Wikipedia, generally, I speak my mind. That's not going to change. deeceevoice 06:57, 3 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

So the other day, I'm walking around when suddenly I saw a squirrel, and I was like: "take this peanut, quickly!" And much happiness ensued. El_C 09:19, 3 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

When I was in elementary school, we sang a squirrel song. "Grey squirrel, grey squirrel, swish your bushy tail. Wrinkle up your funny nose. Hold a nut between your toes. Grey squirrel, grey squirrel, swish your bushy tail."

Yeah. I used to think they were cute.

Until I started feeding them on my balcony.

One winter day while I was in my home office, I heard this loud noise coming from the study -- something banging against the window. I went to investigate. It was this fat (my fault), furry critter jumping from the wrought-iron railing and flinging himself against the window -- his version of "The Little Shop of Horrors'" Audrey's obnoxious, "Feed Me!" I suppose. When I didn't offer him any food, he proceeded to gnaw and the wooden sash to try to gain entry. I chased him off.

Subsequent encounters with these greedy, aggressive little b*stards?

• Repeatedly having to replace potting soil and plants after these creatures repeatedly have dug up the flowers and hostas in my planters to plant and retrieve acorns from the oaks that line my street -- costing me hundreds of dollars (not to mention the effort and aggravation of extra maintenance).
• Discovering that a mating pair had overwintered in one of my larger plant pots, leaving three rather large, limp (and very dead -- yuck!) offspring in them covered in leaves -- the bodies of which I removed and placed in trash bags only after successfully fending off an enraged parent by wielding a freaking broom and roaring like a madwoman and screaming like a banshee.
• Over the years, I've repeatedly had to destroy other squirrel nests constructed in the same damned planter with -- adding insult to injury -- my very own, rather expensive plant materials, coconut-husk planter liners and branches from the blue spruce they use as a ladder/springboard to my balcony.
• They've chewed through four screens, which I've had replaced multiple times.
• I found one on the sill on the inside after it had chewed a long, jagged incision into one of the screens in my living room, and I had to chase it away with -- you guessed it -- the same freaking broom. (What's this fixation with gaining entry into my home?

So, squirrels? I hate the mean, nasty, little b*stards. They're psycho.

On the other hand, you, El_C I adore. ;) Just don't talk to me about feeding squirrels! The fat little f***s. deeceevoice 09:44, 3 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I agree, kittens are cuter and a better way to find happiness, don't believe me? try standing next to one, they will try to pounce the life out of you. - Caribbean~H.Q. 09:51, 3 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

If you're talking about the kind of "kitten" on your user page, I believe you! But, yeah. I know what you mean. I had two kitties, 'til they both died. Old age. I'm thinking about getting another one, though. Just one -- a mutt-cat rescue. deeceevoice 10:28, 3 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Don't get me wrong, I prefer chipetting over squirreling, and unlike the former, I never let them climb on me, or touch me in anyway. And these rats-with-a-puffy tail bully the mice-with-a-puffy-tail and a stripe, and also birds. They climb and steal their seeds. But chippies are now gone, deep in burrows, enjoying peanuts, happy. Who else am I going to give peanuts to that will sit, happily? But I take your point, definitely. El_C 10:04, 3 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Aw, I love chipmunks! (The real kind. Alvin & Co. work my nerves. Every Christmas when I hear their shrieking "music", I just wanna stab myself in the ear with a pencil.) They're cute and shy and sweet. But we don't have them here in D.C. :( Try feeding the pigeons, wrens and chickadees. It's what I do. I prefer flying rats to "puffy"-tailed rats any day. deeceevoice 10:10, 3 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I just clicked the "Chipetting" link. Love the photos. They make me want to pull up my city stakes and go somewhere quiet. "I'm gonna move on out to the country, baby, an' paint my mailbox blue...." *sigh* deeceevoice 10:18, 3 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Chickadee, too! I don't have any pictures to back this story up, but, about a month ago, there I was, petting a chipmunk as he was munching on peanuts and I noticed that a chickadee was watching us with great interest. After chippie went to take peanuts to burrow, I offered chickadee half a peanut (which I pealed), and to my amazement and happiness, it landed on my finger, gripping it with its legs, took the half pealed peanut, and flew away! Afterwards, it returned a few more times for more pealed peanuts, and other chickadees also saw this and followed suit. It was the first time I held a bird since my parrot Tee-Tee (he flew away 1yr after, after my grandpa opened the door; I didn't have the heart to fuck with his wings, so there was no stopping him — it's likely he's still alive right now, since they live for many decades and he has no natural predators in Israel), and the first time I held a wild bird, so it was an enormously rewarding experience! El_C 10:48, 3 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Watch it, El_C. I'mma start callin' you "Snow White" in a minute. ;) deeceevoice 21:00, 3 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

LMAO! I found this so funny because someone close to me actually said to me; "What, are you Snow White or summtin...", because of my feeding and concern over my backyard "city" wild-life. ~Jeeny ^(talk) 22:28, 3 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It is nice to have an audience. Too many people I know have started to get sick of my woodland stories. For the 28,344th time, I start a sentence with: "this reminds how the other day, I was giving a chipmunk a peanut," or "so, here I am petting groundhog, when..." and the whole room sighs! The insolence, the audacity, the tenacity, the intransigence, quickly! El_C 23:07, 3 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Yep. I know what you mean, Jeeny & El_C. Tree huggers & critter lovers, we git no damn respeck! ;) I love your "small" photos and your big, fat tuxedo cat, too. One of my beloved kitties was a tuxedo shorthair. When she got older, as female cats often do, she got a little chunky and developed a tummy. It flopped when she ran. I called her "Orca-porka." Don't think she cared for the name. She'd just look at me like, "What" (no question mark, because she really didn't care) and then ignore me. I think she understood and was insulted. My dear, (not-so) little Habibi.deeceevoice 23:39, 3 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It's true, Kitty has grown plumped over the years. I remember how years ago, he was gone for over two weeks and I already thought him lost never to return. It was early winter and snow has fallen when suddenly I heard a scratch at my attic's window: it was kitty, very thin and sad, meowing. I was so happy! This was not long after my roomate to whom Kitty originally belonged (he grew up on her parents farm in Michigan) left for florida to go to school and left me him, and our bond was not that strong yet. I let him in, gave much tuna and we've been best of friends ever since! El_C 01:02, 4 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Prodigal kitty. That's a nice story. Nothing like bonding over tuna. I like mine as steaks, grilled, slightly rare, with spicey/hot mango chutney. Fabulous. ;) deeceevoice 02:09, 4 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It was a taxing two weeks. Everyday, I'd go to he animal shelter to see if he'd been picked up. I still wander where he was... El_C 02:23, 4 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

No telling, LC, where outdoor kitties go. You know how when they sleep, they do the REM thing, and their muscles and paws twitch? I'm thinking fight-flight-hunting dreams. I used to watch my sleeping kitties (both street rescues) and wonder what they were dreaming about. Wonder if Kitty (still?) has nightmares about being alone, hungry and scared. :/ Too bad. But he has you to wake up to. I love a happy ending. :) deeceevoice 17:37, 4 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I wish I could have attached a tiny video camera, then had someone else edit the best parts! All's well that ends pettings! El_C 01:54, 5 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

What? No stomach for the sad, scary parts? LC, you're such a weenie! ;) deeceevoice 05:15, 7 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

You and I know there's a big issue of systemic bias on wikipedia. There's a lot of people who'd prefer to whitewash the whole thing. To paraphrase Malcolm X. I will forget every negative thing you have said about me and I ask that you will forget every negative thing I have said about you. There's too much work to be done here to spend time arguing with people, especially your allies. If I've learned one thing in my short life it's that you attract more flies with honey than vinegar. We don't accomplish anything by taking potshots at people. Especially not those on the opposing side who would prefer their happy one-size-fits-all version of human history and culture. The reality of the situation is that it's not happy. And people do need a good kick in the pants from time to time. But we all have to make the effort to be civil when dealing with these situations. All accusing them of bias does is make them angry and defensive. You know better than I do what the result of that is. You're not the only person I've addressed this with. And yes I have addressed it with myself. I'm not a flowers and friendliness person myself. But I do believe in doing what is necessary to get the job done. And I think you do too. CJ 14:20, 3 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

There has never been a time when I did not work with you. In fact, when you were having your little hissy fit a while back, I maintained my equilibrium and didn't return the b*tchiness. Same thing with the Malcolm guy. He visited my page with nastiness and never once did I return it in kind. I don't know if you've been around here long enough to be familiar with a user named Zaphnathpaaneah. He's gone now. This[9] might be instructive in terms of how I prefer to deal with disputes between us. I don't believe in black bloodletting for whites' amusement -- and we definitely are in enemy territory. When you asked me to intervene on the African diaspora tag, I obliged. So it should be more than abundantly clear that I understand full well the need to work with one's allies. Now, when it comes to our enemies? I have my way of dealing with them and you have yours. (What? You never heard of good cop, bad cop?) You guys wanna be all touchy feely, fine. That ain't me. You wanted/needed me to weigh in, and I did. Now, if you want someone to say what you would say, then get a sockpuppet. (That's not my style, either.) But don't ask me to drop some beats at the house party and then complain because you don't like my music.

As far as knowing how to get things done, I have some advice for you. Trying to justify the African diaspora stub as one based on the generally discredited notion of "race" is precisely the kind of thing on Wikipedia that will get your efforts slam-dunked into the dustbin by the politically correct/well-meaning -- or by those who want a kumbaya-sounding reason to accomplish an ulterior racist motive. Think/write in terms of "ethnicity" and you're home free. deeceevoice 20:35, 3 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Glad to see you are back active. I've been drifting back in myself, though not making it the full-time job it was for me a while back. - Jmabel | Talk 01:05, 5 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Hey, darlin'. :) Your greeting took me by surprise. Did I go away? Am I back? I almost never sit down at my computer with the intention of editing on Wikipedia. I use the site as "recess" when crunching deadlines. It's my way of (believe it or not) releasing stress, goldbricking -- a form of resistance/protest, I suppose, against my crappy, slavedriving boss (me; I suck). And I've had a seemingly never-ending string of projects lately, so I guess I've also been taking more Wiki breaks (as in "lunch breaks" -- I suppose even my syntax is contrarian when it comes to this damned place ;p).

Anyway, good to hear from you. I hope you are warm and happy and well. I visited your page briefly and saw you in your purple "pimp hat" with the leopard band. I don't know a single black person who'd be caught dead in that. lol (Huggy Bear lives.) Peace 2 u. :) deeceevoice 01:44, 5 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Oh yeah? He doesn't look dead, but I guess he got some money for modeling it. lol ~Jeeny ^(talk) 11:42, 5 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

That guy is so lame, he can't even look cool in that hat. Where the hell did they get that Urkle-esque geek from? Bleh. deeceevoice 19:31, 6 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I'm also glad to learn you're doing well, Joe! All the best from moi and Kitty! El_C 11:08, 5 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Aw, cute kitty! ~Jeeny ^(talk) 11:42, 5 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

My hands are all messed up because I caught a stray kitten today and I'm trying to tame it to be my pet. So I'm not in to doing too much typing.

Looking at where the cool article is right now I still think it gets events out of order and fails to distinguish between "cool" as Shakespeare used it (to mean absence of emotion, lack of love) -- and cool as Miles used it-- indicating detachment, but at the same time a kind of openness and moral high-ground obtained from that detachment. It's a way of dealing with your enemies with love rather than hate-- a deep faith in some kind of cosmic order behind the madness of the moment. An inner sense of certainty and confidence that requires no bragging. That's how I understand it after reading the sources.

I don't really care what came first, I just want it to be clear that "cool" as we know it today would not be the same without the contributions of African cultures filtered through the experience of the diaspora. But um, I think I'm preaching to the choir here.

I think some of the editors who have rushed to fabricate a non-african history of cool think that what the article is saying is that nobody but black people are "cool" in the californian superlative sense. And I guess they find it insulting. And I think there may be a few who can't handle the idea of "African contributions" to *anything* --though I'm going to assume good faith and hope it is the former.

So, what needs to be done is relentless pruning if ANY source that isn't talking about the question "what is cool" ---just mentioning that something seemed cool isn't enough for inclusion. We need to stick to sources that deal with the idea of cool in the abstract.

We also need to clarify what the word has meant in each context. They aren't all the same!

Golly, I typed a lot.

I'd post this at the talk page but, I don't feel like having a little debate. I just really ant the article to be accurate and not a confusing mess like it is now. futurebird 01:01, 6 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Oh and I should add cool as it's known to members of the African diaspora would also not be the same if not for the European notions of cool, yes and the Asian notions too. etc. The important concept is that the west African idea was really different from what was coming out of other parts of the world, and it has had a huge influce on what we see im pop culture today. futurebird 01:06, 6 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

You probably know that I wrote some text that clearly differentiated African cool from that of any other culture, properly sourced, etc., but it repeatedly was edit-warred out of the piece in a disingenuous effort to by other editors to homogenize the concept. I've already made a mental note to go back and retrieve it. My approach to articles is somewhat scattershot. I use Wikipedia as break time. I haven't gone back and read the piece in its entirety, but I know it's got to be a mess just judging from where I left it months ago and what little I did read recently. I began this article a long time ago, and it got hijacked by people trying to appropriate/lay claim to African/AA cool, and the only way they could do that was to attempt to prove there was essentially no difference between the African philosophical and aesthetic construct and European behaviors. In reality, of course, African cool is far more sophisticated/complicated, spiritual and elemental. To a great extent, we're in agreement. deeceevoice 02:07, 6 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

About your hands -- I'm sorry! :( But you did a good thing. There are few things more pitiful than a sad, scrawny, hungry, homeless kitty (and her kittens) shivering in the cold. deeceevoice 18:28, 6 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Afrocentrism

Can you take a peek at the talk page? The problem at the article is the really negative, and condescending way some editors want to portray Afrocentrism. I can't imagine another philosophical and cultural movement like say... romanticism being written about with such contempt. I'm forward a "mild" compromise and I want to know what you think of it, and if you can suggest any sources. Read the comments in the 2nd to last section of the talk page. futurebird 17:58, 6 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

For better or worse, you seem to be following my footsteps around the site. I was an earlier contributor to this article, and there was a credible, fair version which stood for some time -- but clearly not long enough. I've been aware of the recent editing activity because the article is on my watch list, but I haven't had the patience to revisit it. Wikipedia is a lost cause. You might want to look through the edit history for my name and see if those edits/versions yield anything worthwhile. If not, then please feel free to visit here again, and I'll see what I can do.

The problem is, fb, whatever you/any of us write(s) of merit can and will be changed obliterated by someone with a racist, POV axe to grind. The only article I've worked on that has stood for any length of time is "Blackface" -- and that's only the case because one or two white editors/admins have taken it upon themselves to police/defend it. deeceevoice 18:22, 6 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I found a nice set of quotes in one of the old versions that should shut up the people on the talk page who are saying there never was "eurocentric history" -- my god... futurebird 18:38, 6 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I was describing the idea of talking about colonialism from an African perspective and I get "that's scholarship not Afrocentrism!" --yeah, maybe it's scholarship today but Tonbee'd have a fit if he was still alive. futurebird 6 November 2007

That's so pathetic/tragic. Like Afrocentrism isn't about serious scholarship. That remark is so clearly indicative of the mind-set here. These people are so racist, ignorant and/or biased they automatically Afrocentrism is fiction; they use the term as though it is inherently pejorative. That's the kind of crap I deal with all the time. deeceevoice 20:36, 6 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, I produced those and fought repeatedly and successfully (for a time, at least) to make sure they remained. White, racist historical revisionism is a important element w/regard to the need for Afrocentrist scholarship. They can't erase their history of racism and ignorance -- much as they'd like to. What? Like we made it all up? WTF? These naive, ignorant white kids who came along after MLK? What do they know if scientific racism and Jim Crow? deeceevoice 19:22, 6 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

You might also want to dig up that photo of the Giza sphinx that was in the previous article -- the one in profile -- that shows its pronounced prognathism. ;) deeceevoice 19:27, 6 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I'll leave that to Muntuwandi. :P futurebird 19:34, 6 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I can't find a good source for Egyptian cornrows. But, here is one for braids: http://radiographics.rsnajnls.org/cgi/content/full/22/2/377 See the "The Braided Lady" about half way down.

By the way. braids needs some work. In fact it redirects to "braid" and is mostly about... get this... coaxial cables... OMG!

futurebird 11:28, 7 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I just went back and double-checked the edits. Actually, I haven't seen any Egyptian artifacts with cornrows, either, and they may actually postdate dynastic Egpypt. I must have been reacting to the blatant ignorance of the edit note rather than the actual edit. (I think I actually made a corrective edit to similar text way, way back to the article once upon a time. My bad!) Frankly, I don't know if Egyptians wore cornrows. I would tend to think not. Just "singles", dreads and huge afros. But, God. Such abject ignorance! I'm so sick of dealing with the same miseducated (expletive withheld)-s time and again. That's the problem with editing on Wikipedia. It's like ducks in a shooting gallery or a Whack 'Em game. One down, another one pops up. There's really no way reliably to preserve accurate editorial content that flies in the face of common ignorance (and racism) -- and there's so much of that among the Wiki crowd. deeceevoice 11:41, 7 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Don't respond to anything dbm says unless there is a point relevant to the content of the article. He's on my "ignore list" as of now becuse the last thing he posted is nothing but desperate nonsense. I really want him to just get bored, stop trolling the talk page and go away so people can get back to making the article better. Please help me kill this argument. This isn't the first time I've had trouble with this admin. He was rude to me some time ago-- and if this happens again, we should do an RFC. futurebird 19:15, 14 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry to butt in, but FB's right, plus if we keep the strictest civil tone possible and he keeps on with his verbal abuse, that would make a very neat, clean case directly for WP:ANI. Just my tuppence. Happy editing!--Ramdrake 19:46, 14 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I've been asked to look at the Afrocentrism article as an uninvolved admin, and noticed that you have reverted 3 times today. Please don't revert again, as that is considered a violation of 3RR and may lead to a block. Please stay civil on the talk page, and come to me with any concerns, as I'm going to keep an eye on the article for awhile. I've considered it and am going to fully protect the article for a day or two so that you all can cool your heels. Regards, Neranei (talk) 19:48, 14 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

And where precisely did I edit war? Point it out. I reverted the blatant edit warring of DBachmann (he made no attempt at justification of his edits whatsoever) once and reverted the deletion of photographs by WDM, who incorrectly called them POV -- when they clearly were nothing of the sort. All other changes were substantive. So, where's the edit warring? Where's the potential violation of the 3RR?deeceevoice 15:24, 15 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

We don't have enough, and I hate to do these things and have them fail. It's too much drama. What we should do is start a list with diffs of every instance of problematic behavior. I've made one here. The important thing to to make record showing the lack of civility, POV edits etc, and at the same time be able to show that you have always asked for him to stop nicely and never received respect for that request, or a fair response. I don't think this will be hard, he seems to be having an emotional meltdown across several articles at the moment. That all said, I'd rather just avoid this all together and get back to improving the article. I really have nothing to prove to this guy or anyone else. But, unfortunately, I don't think this will be the last time, so add what you think needs to be added to the list. Sound fair? futurebird 13:58, 15 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I want to get the afrocentrism article unprotected but this can only happen if it is agreed that no edit warring will occur on it. Would you agree to a 1 revert rule on the article? 1 revert of the same material per week. This means that if material is added and then reverted only once, no other editor can re-add it for a week. Would you agree to these stipulations? Wikidudeman ^(talk) 15:07, 15 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I don't get why you're asking me and no one else (other than dBachmann), because I haven't edit-warred at all on the article. All of my edits were substantive and justified in the edit notes. And when there seemed a legitimate concern/problem, I made efforts to change the text to make it more accurate. Clearly, Bachmann was edit warring, but why are you contacting me? deeceevoice 15:21, 15 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I went ahead and asked everyone on the pages talk. Sign under "Will do" if you agree to the stipulations. Wikidudeman ^(talk) 15:27, 15 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

You didn't answer my question. deeceevoice 15:32, 15 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Because you've edit warred in the past I was going to leave more notes on user talk pages relating to that article but I decided just to leave it on the articles talk for everyone involved to see. Wikidudeman ^(talk) 15:39, 15 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Really? Not buyin' it. deeceevoice 15:41, 15 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Everyone needs to agree to it or else it won't work. You and Dbachmann seem to be the only ones not agreeing. Wikidudeman ^(talk) 15:56, 15 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

With all due respect -- and I'm being blunt -- I find your answer to my question wholly disingenuous. You started off wrong on this with me from the git-go. I'm not going to tolerate being demonized. Someone pokes me, I punch back. I haven't edit warred on the article. Your concern isn't with me; it's with Bachmann, who clearly did so -- and, according to your note to him on his talk page, elsewhere as well. Further discussion about this can occur on the article talk page. deeceevoice 16:04, 15 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Oh wait, he was the one who started that complaint about your user page, I almost forget... I mentioned it at his review. Yeah, that sucked. Well, I don't blame you for not trusting him, but in the end I try to forgive and forget and move on. But, I'm not easily angered and I may be too passive as a person in general. I have seen people come around, though. Sometimes giving them a chance is a way to make it happen. Ah, well. futurebird 17:44, 15 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I didn't even know that. Yep. Just one more reason. You bend over backwards to get along. And you're likely a lot more mainstream in your views than I am -- that buisness about dynastic Egypt being a "multicultural society" rather than fundamentally and in predominant part a black civiliation. That's just utter white hogwash. So, I think we can agree, sis, to let u be u, and me b me.

With regard to his "proposal," I'm not agreein' to squat. I didn't start the sh*t, and I'm not going to curtail my editorial rights because of someone else who's just got the a** with me simply because I don't buy white folks' lies about who our people are and our history. The guy's got a problem with me -- but that's his problem, not mine (along with, obviously, some personal problems as well). And I'll be gott-damned if I spend any more time talking about "compromise" with a guy who's part of the problem, who started with the b.s. edits in the first place (removing photos without any real justification), who has a history of edit warring on black subject matter, and who doesn't have the guts or the inclination to enage similarly the person who's at the root of the problem: dBachmann. deeceevoice 18:18, 15 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]