Should the mention of Technoblade's ADHD in the personal life section:

• A. Be sourced to the current article that is from Pinknews, a reliable secondary source, but is mostly about twitter drama from people talking about Technoblade instead of being directly about Technoblade himself and only mentions his ADHD in passing?
• B. Be sourced to statements directly from the deceased subject about his ADHD, which are primary sources instead of secondary?
• C. Be sourced to a different secondary source that is more directly about Technoblade but may not be as reliable as Pinknews?
• D. Be removed altogether due to the lack of reliable fully on-topic secondary sources? Unnamed anon (talk) 11:55, 7 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Option D: Remove completely. I personally consider the mere presence of the current source to be undue weight towards the pointless twitter arguments. Even if there is no mention of the twitter drama on this page in prose, it's easily found here, and thus I consider it undue weight, not because the article takes a particular side, but because both sides it reports seem to be fringe viewpoints. Pinknews is a reliable source, but the linked article is very off-topic and gives undue weight to fringe viewpoints in a way that is admittedly not biased, but regardless of the lack of bias both reported sides are fringe. in my opinion. I previously considered options B and C, but arguments made by other users convinced me away from them. Pinging Zaereth, {{u|Ss112, Aoidh, Link20XX, RayDeeUx, and X-Editor. Unnamed anon (talk) 12:14, 7 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Option E: Stumble upon a news source that is reliable per the Perennial sources table which I can't wikilink because I'm currently on Firefox for Android: the Sydney Morning Herald! https://www.smh.com.au/technology/how-a-youtuber-s-death-brought-virtual-grief-into-my-family-20220703-p5aynn.html Cheers, u|RayDeeUx (contribs | talk page) 12:51, 7 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Unnamed anon, see my previous reply. I'm confident that it can replace PinkNews per WP:RSPSS. Cheers, u|RayDeeUx (contribs | talk page) 13:03, 7 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@RayDeeUx:: I actually did use the sydney herald source in place of pinknews at one point. However, it was reverted by Aoidh for being an "opinion piece". However, I see that the sydney herald is indeed a reliable source, (I thought it wasn't given Aoidh's wording, so your option E was what I had in mind for my option C; regardless, I change my vote to using the Sydney Herald). I agree with you that the sydney herald article is much better than the pinknews article despite the former being an opinion piece, since it is actually about Technoblade and doesn't give undue weight to twitter drama. Unnamed anon (talk) 15:06, 7 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Aoidh, @Unnamed anon, rejoice! I have found two sources whose domains have been used at least 500 times throughout Wikipedia:

• https://www.sportskeeda.com/minecraft/who-technoblade-all-need-know-popular-minecraft-streamer | https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Search&limit=500&offset=0&profile=default&search=insource%3A%22sportskeeda.com%22&ns0=1 (although sportskeeda.com is usually cited for articles about athletes...)
• https://www.looper.com/815114/the-untold-truth-of-technoblade/ | https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Search&limit=500&offset=0&profile=default&search=insource%3A%22looper.com%22&ns0=1

You two get to decide. Cheers, u|RayDeeUx (contribs | talk page) 01:01, 8 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Being used on Wikipedia unfortunately doesn't translate to it being a good source. I wouldn't trust Looper per this and Sportskeeda per this. They just aren't good sources and are exactly the type of clickbait articles that have no editorial oversight, for much the same reason as WP:FORBESCON. - Aoidh (talk) 01:09, 8 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Aoidh Could you find another discussion for Looper's reliability? A two person discussion is, in gentle terms, not strong enough grounds.

As for Sportskeeda, your link did lead to a discussion between a larger group of editors, so that's fair enough.

Would still appreciate some help finding any non-SPSs on Technoblade's ADHD from your end. Cheers, u|RayDeeUx (contribs | talk page) 02:14, 8 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@RayDeeUx: Wikipedia:WikiProject Video games/Sources has discussions regarding both of these sources, and both have been deemed unreliable there, as well. – Pbrks ^(t • c) 15:21, 17 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Pbrks Looks like we're stuck with PinkNews. Thanks for the clarification. Cheers, u|RayDeeUx (contribs | talk page) 15:31, 17 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Option A; the PinkNews article is reliable and a solid source, even if it does cover material that I would oppose being in the article. To counter the claim above, the Tweet the article covered was made on May 30, 2020 (according to the article), while the Tweet that Ss112 linked above was not posted on that date, thus the source doesn't lose any credibility. Frankly, I have no idea why you are so insistent on removing this source, almost to the point I feel like you are disrupting normal operation just to make one. No opposition to using The Sydney Morning Herald (Option C), though it is an opinion piece so I'm 100% certain it is a high-quality source. No comment as to whether it is due weight to mention it but that is not the topic of this RfC. Link20XX (talk) 20:10, 7 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• @Link20XX: - When you said I have no idea why you are so insistent on removing this source it made me look. I'm not going to comment on Unnamed anon's motivations, but I can look at their contribs. I did notice an editing pattern of removing anything that is LGBT related.[1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8] That PinkNews is an LGBT paper does fit within that editing pattern. - Aoidh (talk) 22:29, 7 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• @Link20XX: A little off-topic but I think that's a mistake of the PinkNews source, to claim that the tweet was actually made in 2020. It was made pretty clear at the time that Dream SMP fans had dug up Technoblade's old tweets to "cancel" him. I don't recall really any controversial jokes made by Technoblade after he grew substantially following Minecraft Monday in 2019. All in all, dumb Twitter drama. Ss112 07:24, 10 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Option E Summoned by a bot. I'm following the logic above regarding the use of the Sydney Herald article as a RS that can replace the Pinknews source. Comatmebro (talk) 20:12, 7 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Option A - The issue was started in part because PinkNews mentions the ADHD in passing. The Sydney Morning Herald also mentions it in passing, so I fail to see how it's an improvement. Further the Herald's piece is a columnist's opinion piece, not a news article. - Aoidh (talk) 22:13, 7 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  As the one who found the SMH source, I'll try to see if I can find a third source that both you and Unnamed anon can be satisfied with. Cheers, u|RayDeeUx (contribs | talk page) 00:36, 8 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  @Aoidh Whoops, forgot a ping there. Anyways, current status: still stuck with the SMH source. Would appreciate your assistance in finding alternate sources (preferably without digging his Twitter account per WP:ABOUTSELF) as well. Cheers, u|RayDeeUx (contribs | talk page) 00:52, 8 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment: there are probably a dozen or two SPSs we could list, just by combing through his videos (but that's the entire point of this RfC). E.g. a December 2017 video: [9]. SWinxy (talk) 00:59, 8 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  @SWinxy No need, I've found two non-SPSs from domains that have been used at least 500 times throughout (English) Wikipedia. See above where I send two pings. Cheers, u|RayDeeUx (contribs | talk page) 01:05, 8 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Option B- that is the best source for what Technoblade has said about himself. I haven't seen the exact quotes, so it should be worded correctly (pedantically), but without a quote from a medical professional published in a reliable source, I can't see how we can do better than that. Any secondary source would just be repeating with less detail what Technoblade said about himself (AFAIK). His videos are the best source for that. The SMH article shows why it's relevant though: A published author and blogger, Kerri Sackville, whose career appears to be based around social commentary involving topics like "parenting and grief" (source: https://www.penguin.com.au/authors/kerri-sackville) is published in a reputable source describing why Technoblade has had such an impact on some young people "many of them neurodivergent". The ADHD is mentioned somewhat in passing, but it is making the point his openness about "his ADHD, and, in recent months, his cancer diagnosis" is what made his passing more impactful for some people. I agree with her take, but she has better credentials than me, and was published in the SMH, a reliable source. Salpynx (talk) 02:25, 8 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment: I donʻt think thereʻs a problem with the articleʻs usage of the Pinknews source as it is now; WP:UNDUE is about the content of the Wikipedia article itself, not about sources used as references in the article. The Pinknews article is used specifically as a reference to the statement that Technopig was diagnosed with ADHD, which it does, even though the Pinknews article is otherwise a mess. With that said, I donʻt think there would be an issue with using one of Technopigʻs videos or social media posts (such as this tweet) as an additional reference; we can generally expect individuals to be reliable sources for information about themselves, such as what medical conditions they have, which is the kind of situation where WP:ABOUTSELF would allow the use of self-published sources. Musashi1600 (talk) 07:50, 8 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • @Musashi1600: @Ss112:, ok, fair about WP:UNDUE not applying here, though I would still like to state that I feel wildly uncomfortable even using a source about, as Ss112 put it Dream SMP fans [who] had dug up Technoblade's old tweets to "cancel" him. Its mere presence (again, regardless of the fact that we don't mention its contents) feels like it immortalizes a petty cancel culture campaign that should have otherwise been quickly forgotten. I don't think there's any official policy or essay stating this given how specific and niche this situation is, but it still makes me uncomfortable to use a report on a really stupid cancel culture campaign as a source unless the campaign has a direct effect on the subject (such as with Chris Pratt). It has nothing to do with Pinknews being an LGBT source, as Aoidh suspects, but rather the specific article being about a cancel culture smear. Thank you Musashi1600 for your input about primary sources though. Unnamed anon (talk) 21:14, 10 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

    I don't like the fact that this specific article is being used as a reference because it's mostly silly Twitter drama in an article form, but given that Technoblade himself personally and publicly acknowledged having ADHD, I think there's a benefit to including that fact in his Wikipedia article. I also think that benefit outweighs whatever negative effects there are from using a source that mostly discusses an attempt to "cancel" him (which clearly was not and is not successful, as evidenced by the amount of attention he's received since his passing was announced.)

    Under the current circumstances, it looks like there's no other reliable and non-self-published source that references Technoblade's ADHD diagnosis (and no, the Sydney Morning Herald column is not a reliable source because it is expressly identified as an opinion piece), so I think the best option is to keep the article as-is. Mahalo, Musashi1600 (talk) 10:33, 11 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment. Whichever source we use, I think it at least deserves a mention, as Technoblade himself said he had ADHD, and coming from somebody who was conservative with what they revealed about themselves it's significant. I'd also like to echo Musashi1600's point above, that when I saw UNDUE being raised I was going to point out that UNDUE applies to coverage of a topic on a Wikipedia article, not about sources or what they say. Ss112 07:24, 10 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]