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Looking at the discussion so far, and in light of [[WP:SILENCE]], I have cautiously restored one sentence to the article. It is just the one sentence that we had before, and that is included in the longer statement proposed above. I don't intend personally to build further on it. Some may want to add more, and I don't have any strong opinion about that, although a long digression might risk creating undue emphasis.[[User:TVC 15|TVC 15]] ([[User talk:TVC 15|talk]]) 05:42, 16 October 2008 (UTC) |
Looking at the discussion so far, and in light of [[WP:SILENCE]], I have cautiously restored one sentence to the article. It is just the one sentence that we had before, and that is included in the longer statement proposed above. I don't intend personally to build further on it. Some may want to add more, and I don't have any strong opinion about that, although a long digression might risk creating undue emphasis.[[User:TVC 15|TVC 15]] ([[User talk:TVC 15|talk]]) 05:42, 16 October 2008 (UTC) |
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New to wikipedia, I really hope I'm doing this right. On the newly added piece about AC's supposed sexuality; I frankly don't see how most of this is relevant for an encyclopedia. Yes, there has been speculation on his sexuality, and it has been reported as a fact (without any proof offered/based on third hand accounts) by different sources that he is gay. Still, I'd think what Keith Olbermann or Kevin Naffs have to say on Anderson's silence on the matter is, while they're amongst the more prominent figures to have commented this, not relevant for an encyclopedia page. Given that his sexuality to begin with has nothing to do with AC's job, which is what he would be known for, saying that there has been speculation on his sexuality but that he himself has refused to comment would suffice, is what I would think. |
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Also, just in my opinion, the amount of space and links in this edit dedicated to describing the speculation and criticism makes it, to me, seem like the writer of the edit has a personal problem with Anderson Cooper's refusal to comment, and wants to drive up speculation this way. That's how it comes over to me at least, I could be wholly wrong on that, but I thought I'd say so since if more people feel that way some bits may possibly need to be rewritten if others do decide it's relevant content and want to keep it. (e.g. "- thus other personal life questions are also relevant" is not attributed as a quote to Olbermann, the way it is written now.) |
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If I may ask? |
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(a) the sources are reliable - Which reliable sources have stated it outright, and what reliable proof did they offer? |
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(b) his statement about having a family and kids makes it relevant (indeed essential for NPOV) to understanding what he means when he says that. - I personally don't think saying you want a family has anything to do with ones sexuality. Would you explain this to me, please? |
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TIA. |
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([[User:Elphie13|Elphie13]] ([[User talk:Elphie13|talk]]) 23:49, 28 October 2008 (UTC)) |
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== New source == |
== New source == |
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Revision as of 23:50, 28 October 2008
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Trivia
As of 02:09, 5 November 2006 the article still had a good chunk of trivia that I had found online, but hadn't noticed that it was being removed because of the push for proper refs. So I will be adding it back in, but with real refs this time ;) -- Limulus 08:27, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
- OK, I added back in the ones I had previously worked on and could find 'good' refs for; that leaves three that I didn't add. I'll have a look at those later:
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- In 2004 he purchased a multi-million dollar home in The Hamptons.
- Cooper was the featured speaker at the 2005 commencement ceremony for Kean University.
- He is a third cousin of a British duke, John Spencer-Churchill, 11th Duke of Marlborough. The duke's paternal grandmother, Consuelo Vanderbilt, was a first cousin of Cooper's maternal grandfather Reginald Vanderbilt. Consuelo's first husband, Charles Spencer-Churchill, 9th Duke of Marlborough, was a first cousin of Winston Churchill.
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-- Limulus 23:44, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
- Hamptons: can't find a ref; won't add back.
- Kean U: this is true [1]
- cousins: that's some mental gymnastics; the fact that everyone is a cousin of everyone else means that this has very little worth; won't add back.
-- Limulus 07:24, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
Hi Limulus, he is not writing for Details magazine anymore. The last edition he contributed was the October 2005 issue with the article The Face of Famine [2]Worldnewsjunkie 22:08, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
Also, Cooper, delivered the Class Day Address, (May 21, 2006) at Yale University [3] Worldnewsjunkie 22:26, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
I added the Yale ref; regarding Details it says "Cooper also is a free-lance writer whose articles have appeared in many other outlets, including Details magazine." How would you change that? Speaking of, *you* could make these edits now; the article is no longer semi-protected, remember? :) -- Limulus 20:04, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
Book!
His book article Dispatches from the Edge needs to be made, it's the work of a prominent journalist and was on the bestseller list so I think it's notable enough to have an article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.244.43.101 (talk) 04:27, 24 October 2007 (UTC)
- Be bold! Create an account and write the article yourself! Surfeited 22:34, 24 October 2007 (UTC)
Sesame street
Parodies himself.[4] Banjeboi 21:20, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
- Just so it's clear here - Cooper has also parodied himself on the popular children's show Sesame Street. could be a helpful addition to the article.Banjeboi 18:31, 1 August 2008 (UTC)
New draft for re-entry
| “ | Cooper has never married and has actively avoided discussing his romantic relationships - which have been the subject of intense speculation - citing a desire to protect his neutrality as a journalist:[1][2]
This contrasts with his mother's life spent in the spotlight of tabloids and her publication of memoirs explicitly detailing her affairs with celebrities; Cooper vowed "not to repeat that strategy".[3][4][5] Independent news media have reported that Cooper is gay,[note 1] and in May 2007, Out magazine ranked him second behind David Geffen in their list of the fifty "Most Powerful Gay Men and Women in America."[6] Cooper has expressed a desire to have a family and children but acknowledged that by not directly answering the question of his sexuality he may be engendering speculation.[7] Both fellow news journalist Keith Olbermann and Washington Blade's editor, Kevin Naff, have characterized Cooper's refusals as hypocritical.[8][9] In New York, Olbermann criticized Cooper for again refusing to talk about his personal life in a Men’s Journal interview although he published a book of "personal stuff for public display" - including the deaths of his father and brother - thus other personal life questions are also relevant.[8] Naff noted that Cooper had asked another celebrity dogged by speculation, Kenny Chesney, if he was gay while conducting an interview on the television newsmagazine 60 Minutes; Chesney stated he was not gay.[9][10] |
” |
Notes
- ^ Independent media sources reporting Cooper is gay include:
- Musto, Michael (2005-03-17). "Did I Ruin My Chances With Anderson Cooper?". The Village Voice. Retrieved 2007-06-30.
{{cite web}}: Check date values in:|date=(help) - Moylan, Brian (2003-11-07). "Presidential debate for youth includes gay issues". Washington Blade. Retrieved 2007-06-30.
{{cite web}}: Check date values in:|date=(help) - Usborne, David (2007-04-08). "Pink List: Out in the USA: Film star Jodie Foster and TV presenter Anderson Cooper have made unsought appearances on a US version of the 'IoS' Pink List". The Independent. Retrieved 2007-06-30.
{{cite web}}: Check date values in:|date=(help)
- How many times can one guy get outed? edited by Shana Naomi Krochmal, Out.com, 16 February 2007; accessdate=2008-10-04.
- Removing the last hinge from Anderson's closet door by Kevin Naff, Washington Blade, 1 March 2007; accessdate=2008-10-04.
- Musto, Michael (2005-03-17). "Did I Ruin My Chances With Anderson Cooper?". The Village Voice. Retrieved 2007-06-30.
References
- ^ I witness news:Anderson Cooper pulls family skeletons but not himself out of the closet in new memoir by J.S. Hall; Dallas Voice 15 June 2006. accessdate=2008-10-03.
- ^ a b Unanchored: Anderson Cooper’s on-air breakdown was an honest expression of his complicated personality—and a breakthrough for the future of television news. by Jonathan Van Meter, 11 September, 2005; New York magazine, accessdate=2008-10-03.
- ^ The Glass Closet: We all know which stars are inside the glass closet, so why won't they come out? by Michael Musto Out, May 2007, accessdate=2008-10-03.
- ^ "Gloria Vanderbilt's Many Loves: Heiress Discusses The Romances And Tragedies Of Her Life". CBS News Sunday Morning. 2005-07-31. Retrieved 2007-06-30.
{{cite web}}: Check date values in:|date=(help) - ^ Anderson Cooper's Private War by Po Bronson; 12 February 2007, Social Studies; accessdate=2008-10-04.
- ^ "The Most Powerful Gay Men and Women in America". Out Magazine. 2007. Retrieved 2007-10-16.
{{cite web}}: Unknown parameter|month=ignored (help) - ^ Anderson Cooper's Private War by Po Bronson; Men's Journal, March 2007; accessdate=2008-10-04.
- ^ a b Limbaugh for Lefties(pages 5-6) by Stephen Rodrick; New York, 9 April 2007. accessdate=2008-10-04.
- ^ a b Anderson Cooper's Hypocrisy by Kevin Naff, 2 February 2007, Washington Blade. accessdate=2008-10-04.
- ^ Kenny Chesney Denies Gay Rumors by Stephen M. Silverman, People, 15 February 2007; accessdate=2008-10-10.
Discussion
Taking the round of discussion from above here is a new version which hopefully addresses the stated concerns.
- Approve As nom. -- Banjeboi 21:15, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
- I would remove the references to speculation from the first and last sentences. (The speculation about Kenny Chesney was speculation, but the article is not about him so I'm not sure he needs to be in it.) The fact has been reported, as a fact. (Specific relationships have also been reported as fact, but the sources seem less reliable and besides they do not involve other well known public figures, so I would leave them out.) On the subject of _speculation_ about someone's personal life, I tend to agree with Gabrielthursday that mere speculation is unlikely to merit inclusion in an encyclopedia. As I see it, the main reasons for including the fact that he's gay are because (a) the sources are reliable and (b) his statement about having a family and kids makes it relevant (indeed essential for NPOV) to understanding what he means when he says that. Also, the article is about AC, not the people talking about AC. In sum, the draft above sounds more like an argument for (or about) including speculation than the simple statement of facts that we had before. Why not start with the consensus language that we had and then add relevant specific facts to the extent additional reliable sources may indicate?TVC 15 (talk) 03:49, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
Just a follow-up on what I had considered the agreed (consensus) language. According to the article's revision history, it survived basically unchanged through more than 500 article revisions, by countless editors, over more than 15 months. I think that meets or exceeds any definition of consensus seriously propounded. The consensus language remained there until being censored last month. I suggest starting with what we had, and updating if necessary to reflect additional sources.TVC 15 (talk) 20:53, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
- Consensus can change. Therefore, the fact that the section lasted for fifteen months does not prove consensus now that it is appropriate. Please, also, refrain from accusing other editors of censorship. It makes you sound less credible. As for the issue at hand, I'm going to unprotect the article pursuant to what I said above. seresin ( ¡? ) 00:27, 13 October 2008 (UTC)
Looking at the discussion so far, and in light of WP:SILENCE, I have cautiously restored one sentence to the article. It is just the one sentence that we had before, and that is included in the longer statement proposed above. I don't intend personally to build further on it. Some may want to add more, and I don't have any strong opinion about that, although a long digression might risk creating undue emphasis.TVC 15 (talk) 05:42, 16 October 2008 (UTC)
New to wikipedia, I really hope I'm doing this right. On the newly added piece about AC's supposed sexuality; I frankly don't see how most of this is relevant for an encyclopedia. Yes, there has been speculation on his sexuality, and it has been reported as a fact (without any proof offered/based on third hand accounts) by different sources that he is gay. Still, I'd think what Keith Olbermann or Kevin Naffs have to say on Anderson's silence on the matter is, while they're amongst the more prominent figures to have commented this, not relevant for an encyclopedia page. Given that his sexuality to begin with has nothing to do with AC's job, which is what he would be known for, saying that there has been speculation on his sexuality but that he himself has refused to comment would suffice, is what I would think. Also, just in my opinion, the amount of space and links in this edit dedicated to describing the speculation and criticism makes it, to me, seem like the writer of the edit has a personal problem with Anderson Cooper's refusal to comment, and wants to drive up speculation this way. That's how it comes over to me at least, I could be wholly wrong on that, but I thought I'd say so since if more people feel that way some bits may possibly need to be rewritten if others do decide it's relevant content and want to keep it. (e.g. "- thus other personal life questions are also relevant" is not attributed as a quote to Olbermann, the way it is written now.)
If I may ask? (a) the sources are reliable - Which reliable sources have stated it outright, and what reliable proof did they offer? (b) his statement about having a family and kids makes it relevant (indeed essential for NPOV) to understanding what he means when he says that. - I personally don't think saying you want a family has anything to do with ones sexuality. Would you explain this to me, please? TIA. (Elphie13 (talk) 23:49, 28 October 2008 (UTC))
New source
Elle article[5]. -- Banjeboi 14:48, 27 October 2008 (UTC)