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Filter 694 is too strict[edit]

I can think of a few legitimate reasons to move a page to or from module namespace.

1. So that modules can have documentation subpages that don't have awkward titles like Module:Convert/documentation/conversion data introduction/doc and Module:Convert/documentation/conversion data/doc.
2. So that modules can have testcases implemented in Wikitext rather than Lua (RexxS likes to create these, somewhat awkwardly, in module talk namespace)
3. To work around various other bugs (ex: Module:Citation/CS1/styles.css, obviously the correct name for that page, could only be created because Trappist the monk was an admin who has access to Special:ChangeContentModel ) -- this bug has since been fixed by the developers.

I would propose that this be split into two filters.

1. A disallow filter that blocks all moves of scribunto-contentmodel pages out of module namespace (I can't think of any legitimate reason to do this)
2. A warn (and maybe also tag) filter that warns on moves of non-scribunto-contentmodel pages into module namespace, with an exception for moving sanitized-css-contentmodel pages into titles ending with ".css", as the latter is a valid move of a TemplateStyles page.

{{3x|p}}ery (talk) 23:07, 26 February 2019 (UTC)

I'd support this proposal. As Pppery says, at present, when creating test cases for Lua modules, I either have to write a collection of Lua calls in Module:Example/testcases (which actually produces its results in Module talk:Example/testcases) or I have to put a set of #invokes into something like Module talk:WikidataIB/testing. Talk pages should, in theory, be for discussion, but I don't have another usable place to put test cases. --RexxS (talk) 23:34, 26 February 2019 (UTC)

@Pppery: I just tried to move a module out of Module-space on testwiki, and the software wouldn't even let me. So the first filter shouldn't even be needed anymore. Suffusion of Yellow (talk) 23:37, 26 February 2019 (UTC)

Yeah I tried it on the beta cluster, and same result --DannyS712 (talk) 23:47, 26 February 2019 (UTC)

@Suffusion of Yellow: I can confirm that modules can't be moved to any namespace other than module namespace. The move returns the error:

"Scribunto" content is not allowed on page ____ in slot "main" for any ____ page name

--DannyS712 (talk) 23:51, 26 February 2019 (UTC)

However, non-module pages can be moved into the module namespace - see [1] - with this filter currently prevents on enwiki --DannyS712 (talk) 23:53, 26 February 2019 (UTC)

@Pppery and RexxS: I'm not too familiar with modules, or the origin of this filter. Can someone explain what problem it was trying to solve? The comments just say it breaks things in a way that requires admins to fix. Exactly what does happen when a non-scribunto page is moved into Module space? If the filter is changed to warn-only, it should tell users what to expect if they click "Save" again, or better yet link to a documentation page explaining what's up. Suffusion of Yellow (talk) 23:55, 26 February 2019 (UTC)

@Suffusion of Yellow: My understanding of what happens is that the page is still interpreted as Wikitext and therefore can't be #invoke-d, and the only way to fix that issue is for an admin to Special:ChangeContentModel it to Scribunto. Someone techier than me could probably provide a better explanation, though. {{3x|p}}ery (talk) 00:15, 27 February 2019 (UTC)

(edit conflict) @Suffusion of Yellow: MediaWiki allows pages to have an associated "page content model", so normal article pages have a page content model of "Wikitext". but Module:WikidataIB has a page content model of "Scribunto" and stylesheet pages should have a page content model of "Sanitized CSS". You can see what a page's content model is by following the "Page information" in the tools menu in the left column of a page. The content model generally corresponds to the namespace in which the page was created and governs its behaviour. However, moving a page from one namespace to another does not change its content model – you need an admin to do that. There are occasions when it's useful to be able to move a page into module namespace (even though an admin may need to update its content model in some circumstances). Does that help? --RexxS (talk) 00:20, 27 February 2019 (UTC)

@RexxS: Thanks. Will any harm come from this, apart from the moving user getting confused as to why their module doesn't work? I've also found that it is possible to move a move a module to a /doc page, but again I don't see the harm apart from someone saying "why isn't the documentation rendering?". Suffusion of Yellow (talk) 00:28, 27 February 2019 (UTC)

@Suffusion of Yellow: I was suggesting that still be disallowed because I see no usecase for it and therefore see no need to change it. If someone accidentally creates a module that should be a doc page outside of the /doc namespace, then someone will need to change its contentmodel, and so the move might as well happen after the content model change. {{3x|p}}ery (talk) 00:33, 27 February 2019 (UTC)

Extending some of the comments #Regex check to create these filters should be pretty easy --DannyS712 (talk) 23:43, 26 February 2019 (UTC)

@DannyS712: Tried that, and from what I can tell new_content_model and old_content_model are (along with most other variables) empty during page moves. Suffusion of Yellow (talk) 23:05, 27 February 2019 (UTC)

@Suffusion of Yellow: you're right - see mw:Extension:AbuseFilter/Rules format#Notes --DannyS712 (talk) 23:11, 27 February 2019 (UTC)

@Suffusion of Yellow and DannyS712: Gah! Someone should probably report that bug, but in the mean time, how about these suggestions:

1. One filter that warns on any move from outside module namespace or from a module doc page to a title in module namespace not ending in /doc
   • With the exception of moving pages from template namespace titles than end in ".css" to module namespace titles that end in ".css"
2. A second filter that warns (with a different message) on any move from a module non-doc page to a module doc page (the only legitimate reason I can think of for doing this that doesn't require a content model change later is a revert of a move that triggered the first filter and was performed incorrectly).

{{3x|p}}ery (talk) 23:35, 27 February 2019 (UTC)

@Pppery: For the first 1, I think https://en.wikipedia.beta.wmflabs.org/wiki/Special:AbuseFilter/466 might be a start --DannyS712 (talk) 23:47, 27 February 2019 (UTC)

@DannyS712: Thanks! But because of the stupid way performance is measured, I think there should only be one filter, with both possibilities mentioned in the warning, i.e. "If you doing X ... this will happen, if you were doing Y, that will happen". This filter has only ever had 77 hits, so it's not worth wasting even one condition, just to make the warning slightly less confusing. Suffusion of Yellow (talk) 23:52, 27 February 2019 (UTC)

@Suffusion of Yellow: if you make an account over there I'll give you EFM --DannyS712 (talk) 23:53, 27 February 2019 (UTC)

@DannyS712: Thanks, but not right now. Suffusion of Yellow (talk) 00:11, 28 February 2019 (UTC)

┌─────────────────────────┘ @DannyS712: I think there needs to be a "$" at the end of your regexes, else it would get confused about pages that have "/doc" elsewhere in the title. Also, (although this is my error), the CSS testing should only apply to subpages, as that's what TemplateStyles actually checks for. {{3x|p}}ery (talk) 00:04, 28 February 2019 (UTC)

@Pppery:  Done I think - also, the EFM thing applies to you - make a beta cluster account and I'll add you --DannyS712 (talk) 00:12, 28 February 2019 (UTC)

Is anything stopping this from going live now? (other than the lack of a willing admin) {{3x|p}}ery (talk) 02:22, 28 February 2019 (UTC)

@Pppery: DannyS712's filter still needs a few finishing touches. If you have something specific you've been waiting to move, I'll try to get to it when I'm less hungry. An admin will also need to change the warning, but that's probably best done after the filter conditions have been updated. Suffusion of Yellow (talk) 02:47, 28 February 2019 (UTC)

@Pppery and DannyS712: Final (I hope) version is at testwiki:special:Abusefilter/190. If it still makes sense to me in the morning (US) I'll copy it over here. Suffusion of Yellow (talk) 06:11, 28 February 2019 (UTC)

@Pppery:  Done Filter is updated, but set to log-only until the warning message is changed. Suffusion of Yellow (talk) 20:27, 28 February 2019 (UTC)

@Suffusion of Yellow: OK, I've done a few of these moves, and they seem to work, except for a few pre-existing templates and modules that fallaciously assume all Module namespace pages that don't end in "/doc". I've fixed Template:Documentation, and edit-requested that the editnotices be fixed, but there are probably many others. {{3x|p}}ery (talk) 21:52, 28 February 2019 (UTC)

@Suffusion of Yellow: the /doc allowance could also extend to /testcases? --DannyS712 (talk) 23:39, 28 February 2019 (UTC)

@DannyS712: I would oppose that: the purpose of this filter is to warn on any attempt to move a page to a title that would have been in a different content model if it were created at that title. /testcases pages are Lua by default (unlike /doc pages), so they shouldn't be exempted in the filter. {{3x|p}}ery (talk) 23:47, 28 February 2019 (UTC)

@Pppery: (ec) I already changed it to allow moves from non-module-space pages TO /testcases pages, on the assumption that the editor would never want a Lua /testcases page anyway. If that's a problem, I can revert. Suffusion of Yellow (talk) 23:52, 28 February 2019 (UTC)

@Suffusion of Yellow:. Plenty of Lua /testcases exist, in fact most modules have testcases coded in Lua at this time. It's not correct to assume that that the editor would never want a Lua /testcases page, and therefore this should be reverted. {{3x|p}}ery (talk) 23:54, 28 February 2019 (UTC)

 Done Suffusion of Yellow (talk) 23:58, 28 February 2019 (UTC)

@Suffusion of Yellow and Pppery: wait then how have you been moving the testcases pages so far? --DannyS712 (talk) 00:08, 1 March 2019 (UTC)

@DannyS712: The filter is currently log-only as a temporary measure pending update of the warning, and in any case would be warn-only, so I just triggered the filter when I executed the move. {{3x|p}}ery (talk) 00:10, 1 March 2019 (UTC)

@Pppery: but if this is enabled, you wouldn't be able to any more... so again, we need to decide where, long-term, testcases for modules should be left --DannyS712 (talk) 00:11, 1 March 2019 (UTC)

@DannyS712: I will still be able to, I'll just have to click through a warning first. {{3x|p}}ery (talk) 00:20, 1 March 2019 (UTC)

@Pppery: oh, duh, its not disallow. feel free to trout me --DannyS712 (talk) 00:21, 1 March 2019 (UTC)

@Suffusion of Yellow: The MediaWiki message has now been changed. {{3x|p}}ery (talk) 20:07, 5 March 2019 (UTC)

@Pppery:  Done, finally! Suffusion of Yellow (talk) 23:16, 5 March 2019 (UTC)

New warning[edit]

The current warning reads:

I'm tempted to just go with:

But maybe it could go into more detail:

I'm not sure WP:VPT is best place to direct people, but I don't know where else to send them. WP:EF/FP/R isn't really the right place either, since it's not a case of a "false" positives, but rather needing help from an admin to do something. Any thoughts? Suffusion of Yellow (talk) 00:45, 28 February 2019 (UTC)

Maybe WT:Lua? --DannyS712 (talk) 00:49, 28 February 2019 (UTC)

@Suffusion of Yellow: Replace "a" with "this" for clarity. I think the longer version is better, as the short version sounds like it's almost attacking the user for their inexperience. Also, because of the bug of content model variables not being available, this filter will also trigger on some reverts of moves that triggered the filter, so maybe that should be accounted for in the warning. {{3x|p}}ery (talk) 00:54, 28 February 2019 (UTC)

Took me a moment, I guess "If you are moving a Lua script" -> "If you are moving this Lua script" ~ ToBeFree (talk) 01:03, 28 February 2019 (UTC)

@ToBeFree: Nope, I meant "Moving a page will not change its content model" -> "Moving this page will not change its content model". {{3x|p}}ery (talk) 01:07, 28 February 2019 (UTC)

Oh, I see. :D Then I kindly suggest mine too. As it isn't necessarily a Lua script, mine is probably not good. ~ ToBeFree (talk) 01:22, 28 February 2019 (UTC)

┌─────────────────────────┘ Ok, made those changes, and also made it less shouty as both actually seemed a bit insulting on a re-read. If you can think of any more improvements, feel free to edit this comment.

Suffusion of Yellow (talk) 01:29, 28 February 2019 (UTC)

Requested at MediaWiki talk:Abusefilter-warning-scribunto-contentmodel. {{3x|p}}ery (talk) 23:10, 28 February 2019 (UTC)

This is slightly off-topic, but I made a request to improve the error message when moving a page out of module namespace at MediaWiki talk:Content-not-allowed-here. On the dark side, that means I now have four highly obscure edit requests to MediaWiki namespace pending. {{3x|p}}ery (talk) 01:33, 28 February 2019 (UTC)

Before we go moving all of the testcases, we should have an rfc - I've started a draft here --DannyS712 (talk) 23:30, 28 February 2019 (UTC)

Do we really need an RfC? Just ping like the five people who do any regular work in modules and who would care about this. Not like there many testcases for modules anyhow. Galobtter (pingó mió) 13:29, 4 March 2019 (UTC)

@DannyS712: Is something preventing a discussion on this from starting? {{3x|p}}ery (talk) 22:38, 13 March 2019 (UTC)

@Pppery: I mean not really; I assumed that Galobtter was right and we didn't need an RfC, but if we do you can feel free to copy my draft. --DannyS712 (talk) 23:18, 13 March 2019 (UTC)

MediaWiki bug/feature discussion[edit]

There is now a discussion about the underlying MediaWiki behavior at Wikipedia:Village_pump_(technical)#Should_moving_a_page_change_its_content_model_in_some_situations?. ~ ToBeFree (talk) 01:26, 28 February 2019 (UTC)

Edit filter helper for User:Cabayi[edit]

Oooh! So that's what's in 927! Thanks KrakatoaKatie, get well soon. Cabayi (talk) 14:25, 10 March 2019 (UTC)

Cutler LTA, round++[edit]

The filter for this LTA was updated a few weeks ago plus a range block, but he's posting a new version of his wacko delusions. [2] and [3] for examples from today. While not as crazy and BLP violating as his previous rants, would it be possible to update the filter to block his latest drek? Thanks! Ravensfire (talk) 16:16, 14 March 2019 (UTC)

• Tweaked Crow^Caw 16:03, 18 March 2019 (UTC)

Request for comments: AbuseFilter stats[edit]

Hi everyone! Lately, I've been working on implementing a new feature in AbuseFilter: on-wiki detailed profiling, with a log like Special:AbuseLog which would collect data about slow executions and runtime errors (and possibly more). The feature is on gerrit and there's still a lot to do, so don't expect to see it shortly. However, I'm here to ask comments about the visibility of this feature. I think there are 3 options: 1 - Use an existing restriction for the page itself (e.g. use the "abusefilter-log" right), and require "abusefilter-view-private" for entries related to private filters. 2 - Same as 1, but introduce a new right. 3 - Restrict the whole page to people who can see private filters. The reasoning behind 3 is that the log could disclose performance issues about existing filters, although I don't think they'd be exploitable in any way. I also prefer 1 instead of 2 to avoid adding new rights. What do you think the best choice would be? Keep in mind that it can be changed later, this is just to finish building the first working example. Please feel free to ping me if you have any question! Thanks, --Daimona Eaytoy (Talk) 17:35, 26 March 2019 (UTC)

We already have two user groups for AbuseFilter, we don't need another one :) So I concur, option 1 seems best. Thank you for working on this exciting and long desired feature! — MusikAnimal ^talk 00:36, 27 March 2019 (UTC)

@MusikAnimal: I don't think this question was about "groups" it is about permissions (of which we have many). That being said, I suggest a slight variation on (1) using (abusefilter-log-detail) and (abusefilter-view-private). Some projects don't allow the "any" group to view detail like we do, and this seems to be closer related to that level. — xaosflux ^Talk 00:54, 27 March 2019 (UTC)

Great! Thank you both for the comment. I think abusefilter-log is actually the right one for the whole page and abusefilter-log-detail for details of single entries. --Daimona Eaytoy (Talk) 09:35, 27 March 2019 (UTC)

That seems fine, then just use -view-private if it is a private filter for screening. — xaosflux ^Talk 11:39, 27 March 2019 (UTC)

• @Daimona Eaytoy: Will this new log include the name of the user or the page being edited? If so, is there any possible way that api.php?action=stashedit could cause an entry to appear in the log? It seems to cause the standard "On average, its run time is 0.1 ms, and it consumes 1 condition of the condition limit" stats to update, at least on my local wiki. I wouldn't consider it public information that User:Foo was editing page Bar at time T, but chose not to click "Publish changes". Suffusion of Yellow (talk) 00:30, 7 April 2019 (UTC)

  @Suffusion of Yellow: Yes, user and page will be included; you can find here the messages for the log entries. The recording of slow filters is (=will be) done together with the other profiling data for consistency. However, IIRC, profiling stats recorded on stashed edits shouldn't show up anywhere in the interface. What we do is just save runtime etc. in cache during stashedit, and reuse it upon saving if the user effectively saves the edit. Could you please check (on master) that stashed edit data appears in the UI even if the user chooses not to save the edit? I ensured it didn't happen in phab:T191032 and phab:T191430. Thanks! --Daimona Eaytoy (Talk) 08:34, 7 April 2019 (UTC)

  @Daimona Eaytoy: I tried it on master this time, and now it seems that stashedit doesn't cause updates to the (old-style) stats. I also went ahead and tried the new feature (should have done that in the first place...) and there's no way I've found to cause anything to appear to at Special:AbuseFilter/problems without attempting save the edit. So, all good! Suffusion of Yellow (talk) 22:53, 7 April 2019 (UTC)

  Ha, that's great! Glad to hear that everything is working as expected :-) Thank you for your thoughts. --Daimona Eaytoy (Talk) 09:23, 8 April 2019 (UTC)

More exceptions for emoji filter (680)?[edit]

The filter and an example blocked good edit. On List of Falcon 9 first-stage boosters and List of Falcon 9 and Falcon Heavy launches we use an emoji in the filtered range (♺) to indicate reused rocket boosters. Adding these symbols is part of routine article updates. Currently Emoji and Principia Mathematica are exempt from this rule. Is it possible to add the two rocketry articles (page ids: 37574004, 54585305) to the exceptions? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mfb (talk • contribs)

@Mfb: See Talk:List_of_Falcon_9_and_Falcon_Heavy_launches#What's_with_the_emoji? first. We certainly COULD exempt more pages, but I think a better question is why should we at all? — xaosflux ^Talk 00:41, 30 March 2019 (UTC)

Also it doesn't look like either of those articles is using that text anywhere. I could possibly see the use for it somewhere in Emoji. — xaosflux ^Talk 00:43, 30 March 2019 (UTC)

Which text? The booster list uses the symbol 25 times, the launch list uses it 29 times. These numbers will increase in the future as most future launches are expected to reuse a booster. Well, let's discuss on the talk page there first. --mfb (talk) 03:20, 30 March 2019 (UTC)

The "current exemption" pages you referenced (Emoji and Principia Mathematica). — xaosflux ^Talk 04:22, 30 March 2019 (UTC)

@Mfb: all that being said, this isn't a debate to be had about the edit filter. I've exempted the pageid's and will follow up at the article talk. — xaosflux ^Talk 04:26, 30 March 2019 (UTC)