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The result was redirect to Halsey discography. TigerShark (talk) 23:34, 5 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Collabs[edit]

Collabs (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Not notable per WP:NALBUMS. The EP is a compilation of mostly existing tracks. All of the information is about individual songs or taken from other projects like Manic. There is very little on information pertaining to this project itself. Notability is not inherited, the collection did not chart. There's little information beyond the track listing. ≫ Lil-Unique1 -{ Talk }- 14:40, 14 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. plicit 12:51, 4 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Iman Kalyan[edit]

Iman Kalyan (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Other than some passing mentions, i don't see any significant coverage from any reliable sources. Fails WP:NFILM. আফতাবুজ্জামান (talk) 22:56, 14 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment - I don't disagree with the nominator much. But if anyone knows that old Bengali films doesn't have enough news or reviews published on them. Abbasulu (talk) 01:07, 15 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete. Fails WP:SIGCOV and WP:NFILM.4meter4 (talk) 22:25, 21 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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  • Keep - One of the best films of Uttam Kumar and much acclaimed. The music was superhit as well. Abbasulu (talk) 20:55, 26 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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  • Keep - One of the best films of Uttam Kumar and much acclaimed. The music was superhit as well. Abbasulu (talk) 08:17, 30 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Struck duplicate !vote. plicit 12:51, 4 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete Non-notable film. the sources provided aren't significant (only a database entry) and doesn't meet GNG. The keep vote is unconvincing- source? VickKiang (talk) 02:07, 4 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was keep. TigerShark (talk) 23:34, 5 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Chris Stack[edit]

Chris Stack (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Lacks notability; one role on One Life to Live, and nothing else of note. Bgsu98 (talk) 22:51, 14 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  • Keep Passes WP:NACTOR. In addition to being a main cast member on One Life to Live for several seasons, he has had supporting roles in multiple notable films and has had leading roles in several stage plays with independent reviews. I added refs to the article.4meter4 (talk) 23:17, 21 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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  • Keep, notable actor who has many meaningful roles and article has good sources. Davidgoodheart (talk) 01:55, 29 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. 4meter4 has done a nice work in adding sources to the article. ─ The Aafī (talk) 17:00, 5 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was no consensus. Suggest this discussion continue editorially as to a possible AtD rather than a quick renomination. There is not a strong consensus to keep, but nor is there one to delete and it does not appear that one is going to evolve Star Mississippi 14:24, 8 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Luis Méndez (sport shooter)[edit]

Luis Méndez (sport shooter) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Fails WP:GNG and WP:NOLYMPICS. Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 20:47, 14 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  • Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople and Uruguay. Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 20:47, 14 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Olympics-related deletion discussions. Spiderone(Talk to Spider) 06:44, 15 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete does not meet default inclusion criteria for Olympians. The one source has no prose on the subject, it is just a sports stat table. It is time for Wikipedia to stop having sports tables masquerading as articles.John Pack Lambert (talk) 13:07, 15 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep looking at his German article it states he was a three-time national champion (WP:V here) and that he was honoured as one of the best Uruguayan athletes in 2009/10, with sources here and here. He's also won medals (gold and bronze) at multi-national sporting competitions too. Lugnuts Fire Walk with Me 17:19, 15 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    The first source you have provided is in Spanish, not German. A listing of the subject name once is not sufficient for meeting WP:GNG and WP:SIGCOV. The second and third sources you have provided are of a Rowing athlete who competed at the 1960 Summer Olympics. This subject is a sport shooter who competed at the 2000 Summer Olympics in shooting. Therefore, both articles do not discuss the subject and should not be counted towards any sort of notability this subject has. Tagging @Canadian Paul here because their vote is directly based of the sources you provided. Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 03:31, 16 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    Sorry, I meant German wiki article which has more info on this individual. Lugnuts Fire Walk with Me 09:24, 16 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    Do you have a link? What about the other two sources? Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 00:35, 17 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep Redirect to an appropriate target, possibly Uruguay at the 2000 Summer Olympics. Per Lugnuts' comment above, as those sources indicate coverage that would satisfy WP:N. his accomplishments suggest that there would be sufficient coverage to meet WP:N if we had the correct resources to do so. Since those sources are not available, a redirect is appropriate for the time being. Canadian Paul 01:48, 16 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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  • Delete. No one has demonstrated GNG coverage. Redefining ANYBIO to include sporting achievements, despite those not even being awards or honors, is in direct conflict with the global consensus to require GNG be met for all athletes including international medalists. JoelleJay (talk) 22:33, 4 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was soft delete. Based on minimal participation, this uncontroversial nomination is treated as an expired PROD (a.k.a. "soft deletion"). Editors can request the article's undeletion. Liz Read! Talk! 03:36, 5 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Assaf Seewi[edit]

Assaf Seewi (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Appears to fail notability criteria for musicians. – Ploni (talk) 23:11, 21 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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  • Delete - couldn't find any secondary coverage, fails MUSICBIO by the looks of it.-KH-1 (talk) 03:41, 29 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was soft delete. Based on minimal participation, this uncontroversial nomination is treated as an expired PROD (a.k.a. "soft deletion"). Editors can request the article's undeletion. Liz Read! Talk! 03:36, 5 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Damian Perkins[edit]

Damian Perkins (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Article is promotional and autobiographical (see User:Gonperky), and subject does not seem to have had significant roles in more than one notable production. That said, if his role in Aida is sufficient to meet WP:NACTOR, most of the rest of the article should be purged. – Ploni (talk) 22:55, 21 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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  • Delete I find exactly two mentions in Playbill, confirming he was in plays. Comes up also in a Buzzfeed list of the best musicals, that's not nearly enough for notability. Oaktree b (talk) 03:13, 29 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete. TigerShark (talk) 23:37, 5 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The Spooky Sisters[edit]

The Spooky Sisters (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Zero relevant hits on ProQuest, GBooks, or Newspapers.com. Prod contested. Ten Pound Hammer(What did I screw up now?) 21:08, 21 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was no consensus. No objection to a relist when more input might come Star Mississippi 01:43, 6 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Sergiy Vilkomir[edit]

Sergiy Vilkomir (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Article does not meet WP:GNG, most cited article on Scholar is 451 (which has a total of 15 co-authors, and his name is 13th), while other all other articles remained under 70 citations. Breach of WP:CONFLICT, page is created by Jonathan Bowen (user Jpbowen), who is the co-author of 4 out of the 5 'selected publications', and appears in 3 out of the 7 references. Large portion of Scholar articles has Jpbowen as the author/co-author. Whole article is written like a resume.

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  • Delete Unfortunately I don't see any of the criteria set in WP:NACADEMIC being met. Sources are either not independent or trivial. Alan Islas (talk) 04:27, 29 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was redirect to Eurovision Song Contest 1958. TigerShark (talk) 23:38, 5 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Solange Berry[edit]

Solange Berry (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Very little information about the subject appear to be available. Article fails WP:GNG and WP:MUSICBIO and the subject falls under WP:ONEEVENT. Sims2aholic8 (talk) 17:46, 14 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. TigerShark (talk) 23:38, 5 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Philippe Leboeuf[edit]

Philippe Leboeuf (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Hotelier, GM of Mandarin Oriental. In this lieth not the stuff of notability. Sources are passing mentions, business announcements, industry magazine award insufficient to count as "a well-known and significant award or honor" and so fails WP:GNG. Beyond that, the article's a CV and needs TNT - I think AfD is a better course given inherent lack of notability. Alexandermcnabb (talk) 14:50, 21 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. TigerShark (talk) 23:39, 5 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

TheFestivals[edit]

TheFestivals (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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PROD in March 2022 and tagged for notability since then, now we're at AfD with this non-notable web medium. Fails WP:GNG, WP:WEBCRIT: "The content itself has been the subject of multiple non-trivial published works whose source is independent of the site itself. " or "he website or content has won a well-known and independent award from either a publication or organization." Neither apply and the sources presented are not significant. Alexandermcnabb (talk) 14:43, 21 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Liz Read! Talk! 23:35, 5 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Federal Government College, Ganye[edit]

Federal Government College, Ganye (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Following the soft delete outcomes at AfD for Federal Government College, Ohafia and Federal Government Girls College, Zaria I am nominating other articles created at the same time by the same editor as non notable. Mccapra (talk) 22:41, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Also nominating as part of this AfD:

Federal Government College, Maiduguri (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
Federal Government College, Ikom (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
Federal Government College, Ikirun (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
Federal Government College, Okposi (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
Federal Government Girls College, Gusau (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
Federal Government College, Kaduna (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
Federal Government College, Daura (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
Federal Government College, Buni-Yadi (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
Federal Government College, Ikole (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
Federal Government College, Kano (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
Federal Government College, Ibillo (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
Federal Government Girls College, Lejja (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
Federal Government Girls College, Gwandu (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
Federal Government Girls College, Tambuwal (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
Federal Government Girls College, New Bussa (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
  • Delete All Note the source, "Full list of Federal Unity Schools in Nigeria" is used throughout - and what we have here is a full list, indeed. No notability, secondary schools are not inherently notable and there is no case beyond their existence made for notability. Best Alexandermcnabb (talk) 14:22, 29 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete All Honestly it seems like some person just made these articles in 3 minutes and didn't come back to them.`~HelpingWorld~` (👽🛸) 06:08, 5 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete. Liz Read! Talk! 23:34, 5 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Kristoff Wood[edit]

Kristoff Wood (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Fails WP:GNG; lack of WP:SIGCOV. This article would be the closest thing, though it is almost entirely Wood's words since it's an interview. JTtheOG (talk) 21:50, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. ♠PMC(talk) 14:13, 5 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Denzel Deveaux[edit]

Denzel Deveaux (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Fails WP:GNG; lack of WP:SIGCOV. JTtheOG (talk) 21:47, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Liz Read! Talk! 23:34, 5 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Dylan Lightbourn[edit]

Dylan Lightbourn (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Fails WP:GNG; lack of WP:SIGCOV. JTtheOG (talk) 21:45, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was soft delete. Based on minimal participation, this uncontroversial nomination is treated as an expired PROD (a.k.a. "soft deletion"). Editors can request the article's undeletion. Liz Read! Talk! 23:33, 5 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Michael Holowesko[edit]

Michael Holowesko (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Fails WP:GNG; lack of WP:SIGCOV. A few passing mentions, as well as this four-sentence article, but not enough to satisfy the guidelines. JTtheOG (talk) 21:43, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. ♠PMC(talk) 14:14, 5 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Festival of Nations (Minnesota)[edit]

Festival of Nations (Minnesota) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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This page is written too much like an advertisement... When you look it up Google shows a music festival. No references. Doesn't seem notable enough. 𝙷𝚎𝚕𝚕𝚘𝚑𝚎𝚊𝚛𝚝 👋❤️ (𝚃𝚊𝚕𝚔🤔) 21:31, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Liz Read! Talk! 23:30, 5 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Indian Institute for Production Management[edit]

Indian Institute for Production Management (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Was proposed for deletion with the reason Promotional article created in bad faith and lacking proper sourcing to indicate notability. PROD was contested with no explanation other than potentially controversial deletion. * Pppery * it has begun... 17:05, 21 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was speedy keep. Nomination withdrawn — per the added reviews by Ffranc. The article now passes NFILM. Thanks! (non-admin closure) 𓃦LunaEatsTuna (💬) 21:46, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The Last Viking (film)[edit]

The Last Viking (film) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Fails NFILM and a BEFORE check. All the references (such as Moviemeter, FilmAffinity, the Danish Film Institute etc.) are comprehensive film databases that do not count towards establishing notability. In the BEFORE, I found one review in Danish, however it looks like a blog, and the film has a brief entry in a book by McFarland & Company. Said book notes a review from a publication called Scandinavian Film News, however I was regrettably unable to find it. Regardless, it would need at least two reviews from RS sources to pass NFILM. 𓃦LunaEatsTuna (💬) 15:51, 21 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Can yo see here:
  1. https://cinemaonline.dk/Anmeldelse/den_sidste_viking.3015.html
  2. https://www.dvdoo.dk/dvd-film/den-sidste-viking-the-last-viking-dvd-d209621
  3. https://www.amazon.co.uk/Viking-Sista-vikingen-Sidste-viking/dp/B01NACV66C
  4. https://www.notrecinema.com/communaute/v1_detail_film.php3?lefilm=32908
  5. https://danskefilm.dk/film.php?id=914
  6. https://en.kinorium.com/106724/
  7. https://bibliotek.dk/da/work/870970-basis:26601312
  8. https://www.rarefilmfinder.com/movie.php?id=9910
  9. https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0117645/

Search with "Den Sidste Viking". There is more... Thanks Buzancar (talk) 06:54, 22 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  • Keep per WP:NFILM: released theatrically in several countries and reviewed in mainstream publications upon the original releases. I added the Danish and Swedish release info and a review from Nöjesguiden. Ffranc (talk) 12:27, 27 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was redirect to University of Minnesota#Institutes and centers. Liz Read! Talk! 03:31, 5 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Institute for Advanced Study at University of Minnesota[edit]

Institute for Advanced Study at University of Minnesota (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Subject is not independently notable (notability is not inherited from its parent) ElKevbo (talk) 15:35, 21 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Consensus seems to be that the subject has not yet satisfied GNG or NACTOR, but may do so in the near future. It would seem that the consensus is therefore that the article should be deleted now, and recreated if GNG or NACTOR are eventually satisfied. TigerShark (talk) 02:37, 6 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Dhanveer Gowda[edit]

Dhanveer Gowda (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Reviewed during new page patrol. No indication of wp:notability under GNG or SNG. Of the 5 references, one doesn't even mention him and 4 just mention him as being in a role. No in-depth coverage in any of them. Tagged by someopne else since April. North8000 (talk) 11:38, 7 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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  • DELETE as norm and QueerEcofeminist. - Signed by NeverTry4Me Talk 08:15, 29 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep as passing GNG. The actor has been playing lead roles in 2 films that have already been released. He is also lead in three more films where principal photography has begun. As per WP:NFF, we actually can host separate articles for these 3 new films and its only gonna take small time to get that done by some filmy fan. I see no point in deleting the biography for few days and see how someone again recreates it. This is a clean article without fans writing overwhelming stuff. §§Dharmadhyaksha§§ {Talk / Edits} 04:44, 30 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was no consensus. Sandstein 07:38, 6 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

New R. S. J. Public School[edit]

New R. S. J. Public School (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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WP:BEFORE mainly returns listings and wikipedia-clones. But I am aware of sources in Hindi that I can not read or find. Seems to fail WP:GNG The Banner talk 09:47, 13 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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  • Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Uttar Pradesh-related deletion discussions. -MPGuy2824 (talk) 07:30, 14 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment. There's a previous AfD at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/New R. S. J. Public School Senior Secondary. No idea how to indicate that above; will somebody who knows how please do so? Yngvadottir (talk) 07:46, 14 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. Using the search string न्यू आरएसजे, I found a couple of later news mentions, and one extended article on a graduate that I couldn't use. As was stated at the previous AfD, we need to be very cautious in applying high expectations of archived online coverage to schools in developing countries, which is a form of entrenched bias. This relatively young school (established in 2001) demonstrates continuing press coverage, albeit sparse. Despite the removal since the first AfD of the SCHOOLOUTCOMES guideline under which secondary institutions enjoyed a presumption of notability, given its location in India (in a major city with many private schools jockeying for coverage), I believe it passes GNG. Yngvadottir (talk) 23:13, 15 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep - at least it makes assertions that it is notable, and has a citation for a newspaper of record, thus passing most of my standards for school. Bearian (talk) 22:37, 20 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was soft delete. Based on minimal participation, this uncontroversial nomination is treated as an expired PROD (a.k.a. "soft deletion"). Editors can request the article's undeletion. Liz Read! Talk! 23:29, 5 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Behind the Movies[edit]

Behind the Movies (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Article about a shortlived television show, not properly sourced as passing WP:TVSHOW. As usual, television shows are not "inherently" notable just because their own self-published production websites offer technical verification that they existed -- the notability test is the reception of third party media coverage about the show in sources independent of itself, to demonstrate that they have been externally validated as significant by virtue of having had attention paid to them by neutral and objective sources.
Full disclosure, I was actually the original creator of this, fifteen years ago when simply verifying that the show existed was deemed enough to get a TV show into Wikipedia -- but the rules have (wisely) been tightened up considerably since then, and I just can't find any reliable sourcing that would get this up to contemporary requirements at all: the best source I can locate is a 50-word blurb in a "tonight on TV" column, which isn't enough. The only reason I'm not just killing it myself as a G7 is that I'm not the only person who's edited it since 2007. Bearcat (talk) 21:09, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  • Delete. Very big of you to suggest your own article for deletion. But I could find no sources for the TV show aside from its own network. Fails WP:TVSHOW. CollectiveSolidarity (talk) 21:20, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete. ♠PMC(talk) 14:16, 5 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Let's Shop[edit]

Let's Shop (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Article about a shortlived television show, not properly sourced as passing WP:TVSHOW. As usual, television shows are not "inherently" notable just because their own self-published production websites offer technical verification that they existed -- the notability test is the reception of third party media coverage about the show in sources independent of itself, to demonstrate that they have been externally validated as significant by virtue of having had attention paid to them by neutral and objective sources. But the only "source" here is its own (deadlinked) website, and on a ProQuest search for older coverage I'm not finding any non-trivial coverage about the show -- the overwhelming majority of what I'm getting is sources written by the host in her later role as a newspaper design columnist, which doesn't help.
And for added bonus, this article is so minimally written that I can't even subcategorize it for premiere year, ending year or what network carried it, which are pretty basic details that any article about a television series always has to contain. Bearcat (talk) 20:57, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. ♠PMC(talk) 14:16, 5 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Vitaliy Zhupanskyi[edit]

Vitaliy Zhupanskyi (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Does not appear to meet WP:GNG, having checked the uk.wiki article and searched online in Ukrainian and Russian. Would have (barely) met the old NFOOTY standard, but that's not a guideline anymore, hence AfD. signed, Rosguill talk 20:35, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. No consensus or policy based arguments for anything other than delete. Draft namespace is for articles to be worked on, not for articles to wait until the subject becomes notable. TigerShark (talk) 02:42, 6 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Owen Cochrane[edit]

Owen Cochrane (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Does not meet WP:GNG, I was unable to find additional suitable coverage online. Would have previously (barely) made the old NFOOTY guideline, but that is no longer accepted as a guideline, hence AfD. signed, Rosguill talk 20:28, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was Speedy Deleted by Bbb23 (G5: Creation by a blocked or banned user in violation of block or ban (non-admin closure) WikiVirusC(talk) 00:10, 29 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Sahnil Bhatnagar (Actor)[edit]

Sahnil Bhatnagar (Actor) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Article was previously deleted (see Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Sahnil Bhatnagar (Indian Tv Actor)) and almost every variation of article title has been salted. After the creator's draft was declined earlier today, they requested its deletion then created this in mainspace. An IP has removed the G4 multiple times, so rather than edit war, I'm nominating it for a repeat AFD as a non-notable actor. Lacks significant coverage in independent, reliable sources. Schazjmd (talk) 20:25, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. ♠PMC(talk) 14:17, 5 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Vladyslav Dvorovenko[edit]

Vladyslav Dvorovenko (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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I'm not able to find sourcing that adds up to WP:GNG, having looked through all the citations at the linked uk.wiki article and done additional searches online in Ukrainian and Russian. They would have meet the old NFOOTY standard, but that is no longer a guideline, thus I'm bringing this to AfD. signed, Rosguill talk 20:25, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. ♠PMC(talk) 14:17, 5 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

List of memorable movie character names[edit]

List of memorable movie character names (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Does not meet WP:NLIST. (Who has decided said criteria...?) – DarkGlow • 19:56, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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  • Delete, no source for any aspect of the criteria. --Cerebral726 (talk) 20:08, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    Removed criteria. List is based on cited references. Amirak (talk) 03:33, 29 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete No proper WP:LISTCRITERIA, which are supposed to be unambiguous, objective, and supported by reliable sources. These categorically aren't – the first is It should be unique and memorable name of a prominent character in a (Hollywood) movie, but "unique and memorable" is of course hardly objective. Furthermore, why Hollywood specifically? That's just blatant WP:Systemic bias. I don't see this being salvageable. TompaDompa (talk) 20:12, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete. This list isn't encyclopedic, it's just someone's personal list of memorable movie names. Now a list such as AFI's 100 Years...100 Heroes & Villains could be justified since it would have coverage of the list itself, but this isn't that type of list. To be honest, this could potentially be deleted under WP:A11 or at the very least, snow closed since I don't imagine this has a snowball's chance of surviving AfD. ReaderofthePack(formerly Tokyogirl79) (。◕‿◕。) 20:27, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    Oh come on -- I included six references. This is hardly a personal list! Amirak (talk) 03:34, 29 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
      • Beyond that, the list of 20 has Dorothy Gale and Mary Poppins on it. Neither of them are on this list. Why? What reliable sources justify this exclusion. These are another two characters that originate with books, not films. That may be a reason to exclude, but then why are Bond and Doolittle here since neither started as a film character.John Pack Lambert (talk) 14:08, 29 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
      References are not the same as reliable sources. You included references that list 20 (and not clearly because of name significance per se), 50, 101, and a few that list 100.John Pack Lambert (talk) 14:04, 29 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete Thoroughly subjective list. –LaundryPizza03 (d) 20:36, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    Arguably any of AFI 100 Years... series articles is subjective. Amirak (talk) 03:48, 29 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • There are multiple holes in that argument. First is that the AFI bases their lists on research and a very specific set of rules. This limits the subjectivity to a certain degree because to get on the list the film would have to not only meet those requirements, but also have to have been covered in multiple independent, reliable sources. It's also worth noting that the list is limited to American films that were released during a very specific period in time. Secondly, AFI is a major notable institution so a list from them will be seen as more of a landmark thing than say, a list put out by Empire or Watch Mojo. They don't put out "lists of the most notable/major/etc" every day.
There's also the issue that the lists are based on characters rather than names. Big difference there, believe it or not. A character can have a memorable name but otherwise be a forgettable character. (IE, people don't remember anything about the character other than the name akin to how many people remember the phrase "that's a spicy meatball" but not the product/company it was meant to promote without looking it up online.)
Then there's the issue of this being based almost solely on US films - assuming a list of this type is feasible to create, it would need to take a global perspective rather than just US films. This would then move on to the issue of sourcing.
Not every list is going to be a RS as far as "most memorable characters" or "most memorable names" goes. A lot of these lists tend to be created as part of a slow news day and are just a product of whomever is working on the news article. Research may be conducted, but not always. Then there's the fact that not all lists are going to be reliable. The List Challenges page is certainly not going to be a RS on here, nor will random sites like The Good in Movies. Watch Mojo could be debated, but it's not going to be the strongest source here. However that poses a new issue:
What names are included off these lists? Do you include only the "weird" or "funny" names? Why one name over the other? What are the qualifications for it being a "memorable" name? To reiterate an earlier point, why focus on the names when the lists are about characters? Picking out names when this isn't the focus of the lists is essentially original research. ReaderofthePack(formerly Tokyogirl79) (。◕‿◕。) 13:03, 29 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • I'm not trying to be harsh here, just that this is still a personal list because at the end of the day you're taking sources that aren't about memorable names and cherry picking characters out of them. That's why lists of this nature are typically not doable, because ultimately it's going to be based on OR to some degree. At most there could be a list of characters frequently considered to be iconic, but even then that would take a lot of justification and sourcing to be feasible. ReaderofthePack(formerly Tokyogirl79) (。◕‿◕。) 13:06, 29 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
You make some valid points, esp. regarding difference between characters and their names, which is what this list is about. I conceded there is subjectivity in the list, but I'd argue there is also some value (cf. List of humorous units of measurement). There is no other such list focusing on the character name, which in many cases is a creative expression of the writer just as the plot/script is. I think you either way for making a thoughtful, cogent argument. Amirak (talk) 14:27, 29 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
"thank you..." arrgghh! Amirak (talk) 14:28, 29 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete- the is basically the Platonic ideal of an incurably subjective inclusion criterion. Reyk YO! 21:44, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    You're right -- subjective criteria removed. Amirak (talk) 03:35, 29 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete. Arbitrary arbitrariness. "It shouldn't be ... just weird"? Clarityfiend (talk) 21:59, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    Removed. Amirak (talk) 03:35, 29 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete This list is literally only notable to a film fan looking for baby names (which will be rejected by their spouse because 'no you're not naming our child Keyser Soze'). Nate (chatter) 23:13, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    Other than "Forrest", this last bares no resemblance to popular movie-based baby names . Amirak (talk) 03:37, 29 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    "this list bares..." Amirak (talk) 03:45, 29 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Speedy delete: Absolutely no reason for this to exist. –Ploni (talk) 00:42, 29 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete per WP:SNOW, "memorable" is inherently subjective. Ten Pound Hammer(What did I screw up now?) 03:15, 29 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    "Culturally significant"? open to suggestion. Many articles have an "in popular culture" section. Amirak (talk) 03:39, 29 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    • The "in popular culture" section is a legacy of Wikipedia being overrun by fans creating trivial listings of fan crufts in the years prior to 2006. It is one of the early problems with Wikipedia we are working to fix. It is not a sign of what things should be.John Pack Lambert (talk) 14:11, 29 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete. No Pussy Galore, no Biggus Dickus--User:Amirak, can you explain this oversight? Drmies (talk) 03:34, 29 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Speedy delete as WP:A1. Nonsense list with BS inclusion criteria and godawful sourcing (only one list mentions names in the title and it’s from some random site I’ve never heard of). Dronebogus (talk) 08:37, 29 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete. Obvious WP:LISTCRUFT. Ajf773 (talk) 08:43, 29 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete no real reason to set up a limit, and since other sources chose to include multiple numbers and there is no agreement on what does and does not belong in this list, this will always be just a list that a few people agree on but has no concensus behind it.John Pack Lambert (talk) 13:51, 29 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Since we don't do WP:BJAODN anymore, I can't suggest moving it to the List of unmemorable movie character names first. Totally justified move, btw, given WP:OR nature of this. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 08:47, 30 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete: There is no reason to keep what are functionally a random person's personal opinions here. ―Susmuffin Talk 11:50, 30 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Snow delete as WP:OR and WP:IINFO. Shooterwalker (talk) 22:00, 30 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong Delete I agree with all of the above comments , this is a totally subjective list with no criteria, has OR, and fails NPOV. What does the memorable movie character names mean, as almost all of the refs have different names? Also, what is even the criteria for inclusion? It fails unambiguous, objective, and supported by reliable sources (per TompaDompa), and has loads of exclusions. This should not be in mainspace and IMO this AfD could be closed as Snow Delete. Many thanks! VickKiang (talk) 07:32, 2 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete, completely arbitrary and subjective list with no criterion whatsoever about what makes a movie character name memorable. The cited sources don't appear to be used to establish inclusion criteria. JIP | Talk 15:09, 3 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was soft delete. Based on minimal participation, this uncontroversial nomination is treated as an expired PROD (a.k.a. "soft deletion"). Editors can request the article's undeletion. Liz Read! Talk! 23:25, 5 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Jordan Crawford (soccer)[edit]

Jordan Crawford (soccer) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Fails WP:GNG and lacks WP:SIGCOV. Only source [2] is not sufficient to pass either criteria. Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 19:42, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. ♠PMC(talk) 14:17, 5 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Shailen Vandeyar[edit]

Shailen Vandeyar (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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PROD rationale was: "Promotional page. All sources are suspect for reliability and independance, with many being explicit in that they are paid promotions. User appears to be single-purpose in their efforts to promote this person." Deprodded by SPA. Schwede66 19:40, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  • Delete Wikipedia is not the location to promote not truly notable businesspeople.John Pack Lambert (talk) 20:34, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete Non-notable marketing consultant with mostly paid news coverage. Karenluying (talk) 21:03, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    Huh? You wrote the article. You de-PRODDED it. What changed your mind, Karenluying? Schwede66 23:36, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete. Per the deprod, the article appears to pass GNG at first glance, but checking sources reveals a medley of very similar WP:SPONSORED or sponsored-looking “news” articles. Note that per WP:COVERT, the articles in American publications ([3], [4], [5]) are required by law to disclosed their paid status (with Ascend Agency), while other countries presumably lack similar standards. — HTGS (talk) 00:46, 29 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete I didn’t realise that some of those sources were doing what looks like undisclosed paid promotion. Disappointing. Park3r (talk) 08:19, 30 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete No evidence of notability! Fabiobengario (talk) 07:25, 3 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was soft delete. Based on minimal participation, this uncontroversial nomination is treated as an expired PROD (a.k.a. "soft deletion"). Editors can request the article's undeletion. Liz Read! Talk! 23:25, 5 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Calisha Callwood[edit]

Calisha Callwood (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Fails WP:GNG and lacks WP:SIGCOV. Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 19:40, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was soft delete. Based on minimal participation, this uncontroversial nomination is treated as an expired PROD (a.k.a. "soft deletion"). Editors can request the article's undeletion. Liz Read! Talk! 23:24, 5 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Eunice Nabalu[edit]

Eunice Nabalu (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Fails WP:GNG and lacks WP:SIGCOV. All sources are trivial mentions. Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 19:38, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Liz Read! Talk! 23:24, 5 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Travis Pita Sinapati[edit]

Travis Pita Sinapati (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Fails WP:GNG and lacks WP:SIGCOV. Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 19:36, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was soft delete. Based on minimal participation, this uncontroversial nomination is treated as an expired PROD (a.k.a. "soft deletion"). Editors can request the article's undeletion. Liz Read! Talk! 23:23, 5 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Terrence Sinapati[edit]

Terrence Sinapati (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Fails WP:GNG and lacks WP:SIGCOV. Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 19:34, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was soft delete. Based on minimal participation, this uncontroversial nomination is treated as an expired PROD (a.k.a. "soft deletion"). Editors can request the article's undeletion. Liz Read! Talk! 23:23, 5 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Kaleopa Siligi[edit]

Kaleopa Siligi (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Fails WP:GNG and lacks WP:SIGCOV. Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 19:28, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was soft delete. Based on minimal participation, this uncontroversial nomination is treated as an expired PROD (a.k.a. "soft deletion"). Editors can request the article's undeletion. Liz Read! Talk! 23:22, 5 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Pita Falevalu[edit]

Pita Falevalu (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Fails WP:GNG and lacks WP:SIGCOV. Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 19:25, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Liz Read! Talk! 23:22, 5 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Marshall Silao[edit]

Marshall Silao (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Fails WP:GNG and lacks WP:SIGCOV. Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 19:23, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. ♠PMC(talk) 14:18, 5 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Coventry University Department of Media[edit]

Coventry University Department of Media (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Advertisement, "sourced" to its own press releases Orange Mike | Talk 17:54, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  • Agree, delete. Departments are rarely notable, and this is not one of them. Drmies (talk) 18:06, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Agree, delete. This department is not notable. --Bduke (talk) 07:53, 5 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete. Liz Read! Talk! 23:20, 5 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Alisha Terry[edit]

Alisha Terry (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Fails WP:GNG and lacks WP:SIGCOV. Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 17:11, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was merge to Dungeons & Dragons#Development history. TigerShark (talk) 02:04, 6 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Sources and influences on the development of Dungeons & Dragons[edit]

Sources and influences on the development of Dungeons & Dragons (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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A meandering, poorly written, unsourced mess that looks like a TVTropes page, and has been marked as OR for 12 years. The contents of it, when even worthy of mention, should be noted in the respective relevant pages and not in obsessive fanboy fashion here. — nomination on behalf of 2601:1C2:5000:1472:8806:86F:2C7C:5D28 (talk · contribs · WHOIS), per request at WT:AFD, – Joe (talk) 14:52, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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  • Dungeons & Dragons#Sources and influences links to this as a Main Article, and there is a certain degree of redundancy with most of the important points being covered there. I would not recommend any merge back of this article into that one as the weight between the two seems about right at the moment. I'm a bit surprised that Appendix N, which famously covers most of this, doesn't have it's own article, but perhaps this being a sub article of Dungeons and Dragons explains that. Also it's entirely possible there's some material NOT covered by Appendix N which should be here. A possible structure that would make sense would be "Early History" (Chainmail and the like), "Appendix N" (everything in Appendix N, areas where Appendix N is contested), and "Furthur Influences" (everything coming after Article N). At any rate there are sufficient remedies to the deficiencies of this article that my vote is Keep. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Artw (talk • contribs) 15:11, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Redirect to Dungeons & Dragons#Development history, with the possibility of merging any sourced material from those first couple of prose paragraphs over, though a quick look makes this look unnecessary as both sections looks largely identical. The itemized list of examples of trivia, a lot of which is unsourced anyway, should not be retained. The actual prose information itself is, of course, notable, but as I said is already covered in full in the main article making this an unnecessary spinout. Rorshacma (talk) 15:21, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    The first two sections were originally copied from Dungeons & Dragons. The diff from 2007 to today is slightly messy, but the sections are largely unchanged. Flatscan (talk) 04:22, 2 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Merge to Dungeons & Dragons#Development history. There is some usable content in the first prose half. The following list needs WP:TNTing for failing probaby every single conviveable policy, it seems like 100% WP:INDISCRIMINATE OR, lisitng and speculating and some D&D conceps. What a mess. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 16:20, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Merge with Dungeons & Dragons#Development history, doesn't need a separate article. Rubbish computer (Ping me or leave a message on my talk page) 19:21, 30 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Merge to Dungeons & Dragons#Development history. Very poor article with OR, verfiability is also not present. Though the first two sections are decent, so I would prefer merging instead of deleting. VickKiang (talk) 04:09, 1 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep With the whole book Appendix N : the literary history of Dungeons & Dragons as well as somewhat shorter treatments like in Of Dice and Men or Strictly Fantasy: The Cultural Roots of Tabletop Role-Playing Games written about it, this topic fullfills WP:GNG/WP:LISTN. This obviously needs more sources, but I don't think there is much original research here, as primary or secondary sources can be found for most. Adding more commentary by the latter to balance information based on interviews. WP:Deletion policy says "If editing can improve the page, this should be done rather than deleting the page." That's the case here in my view, so that's what should be done. Daranios (talk) 20:45, 1 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep per Artw and Daranios, the article is currently a mess, but it looks like the sources exist with which it can be improved. BOZ (talk) 20:53, 1 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Selective merge and redirect to Dungeons & Dragons#Development history. There's no doubt D&D is notable enough to support multiple articles, but this one's a mess. By the time we're done cleaning it up (i.e. removing unsourced material, etc), there's really nothing there that's not already in the Development history section of the main page. Yes, I know there aren't deadlines, but this has been tagged for 12 years. If nobody's done this topic justice in 12 years, the odds that they're going to do so in the next 12 are vanishingly low. And if somebody really does want to do a well-researched deep dive into this topic, there's nothing to prevent them from starting afresh and doing so. Note the use of "selective" in "selective merge"; that means just merge the material which is truly significant and well-sourced that isn't already in the main article. That may well end up being nothing. -- RoySmith (talk) 20:38, 2 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • There is a ton written on this topic. No problem meeting WP:N. The question is if it meets WP:TNT and the answer, IMO, is not really. It needs massive trimming and a lot of work. But the topic is notable and at least the first few paragraphs are solid. Hobit (talk) 10:46, 3 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete. Consensus that this should not have its own article. Suggested that there might be some value to keep as a redirect, but as OGAE Song Contest already exists as a redirect, it seems to have no real value. TigerShark (talk) 02:10, 6 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

OGAE Song Contest 2019[edit]

OGAE Song Contest 2019 (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Fan contest that fails several notability guidelines, including WP:GNG. A standalone article is not required, the winner is already covered on OGAE and the remaining songs and places are not notable and could be considered WP:FANCRUFT. Sims2aholic8 (talk) 07:54, 14 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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  • Delete. The fan club itself is notable, however this "alternative to Eurovision" contest appears to be just a fun yearly event for them. Neither the event nor its outcome receive substantial coverage in independent secondary sources. Grk1011 (talk) 13:09, 14 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Redirect to OGAE as WP:ATD. ~Kvng (talk) 13:43, 17 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    • I believe this article falls under point 8 of WP:DEL-REASON, and specifically under WP:GNG for "significant coverage" given it is an online-only fan contest that will never receive enough coverage to warrant its own Wikipedia article. Sims2aholic8 (talk) 16:38, 18 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
      Sure but see WP:CHEAP ~Kvng (talk) 03:28, 20 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
      • True but also WP:COSTLY. It's not a subject that is ever going to be notable enough to require its own article, so actually keeping this as a redirect may serve very little purpose, especially as anyone typing in "OGAE Song Contest" will find the parent redirect as an option before this article. Sims2aholic8 (talk) 12:27, 21 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
        There is already a OGAE Song Contest redirect and I am now convinced that is sufficient for searching purposes. I still believe there is an WP:ATD case here as this is material is not entirely worthless as at least some of it could be included in the OGAE article. Leaving OGAE Song Contest 2019 as a redirect is not going to harm anyone's search experience and may encourage further improvement to OGAE in the future. ~Kvng (talk) 14:40, 21 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Delete or redirect?
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, plicit 14:18, 21 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, plicit 14:37, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was Move to John Smith (1845 Yorkshire cricketer) and redirect to List of English cricketers (1841–1850)#S. TigerShark (talk) 23:28, 5 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

John Smith (Sheffield cricketer)[edit]

John Smith (Sheffield cricketer) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Fails WP:GNG and WP:SPORTCRIT #5. Article previously boldly redirected, reverted after a discussion at RfD. BilledMammal (talk) 14:21, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  • Per the note on the article talk page that I'd forgotten about, redirect to List of English cricketers (1841–1850)#S is probably the most effective solution. An even better solution, as I suggested at the RfD, would be to move over redirect John Smith (Sheffield cricketer) to John Smith (1845 Yorkshire cricketer), where I think the article was originally located. This is because there's no evidence that the man played for Sheffield, which is how we would usually name these - albeit with the usual caveat about the naming of Manchester, Sheffield, Cambridge etc... sides. Then redirect that as above - that way we preserve all the article history, discussions, attribution, sources and so on. That, in cases like this can be quite important - you'd be surprised how frequently more information is squirrelled out of things - was it RN Lee that was just a set of initials originally? Blue Square Thing (talk) 14:37, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Redirect. Why not be WP:BOLD and redirect straight to List of English cricketers (1841–1850)#S? These obvious ones are a waste of everyone's time (: StickyWicket (talk) 14:59, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    • Because a bold redirect was previously rejected at RfD. BilledMammal (talk) 23:58, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Move to John Smith (1845 Yorkshire cricketer) and redirect to List of English cricketers (1841–1850)#S Obviously doesn't seem notable enough for an article so redirecting to this list here is the best option, however as BST states the current disambiguation is incorrect and needs changing. I'm not sure this suggested disambiguator is perfect either but I can't work out a better one with what we currently know. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 19:17, 29 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete. plicit 14:45, 5 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Tania Tarannam[edit]

Tania Tarannam (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Fails WP:GNG and WP:ARTIST. She lacks significant coverage. I could only find mirrors of the Wiki article. The Times of India source is not independent coverage as her album was released on the same company's record label. The article is full of puffery and would need editing if kept. Dougal18 (talk) 14:12, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was redirect to Don Cherry. plicit 12:14, 3 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Blue (Don Cherry's dog)[edit]

Blue (Don Cherry's dog) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Non notable, verging on WP:OR. Acousmana 12:25, 21 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, plicit 13:58, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  • Redirect to Don Cherry, per the above comments. There is no real basis for this to be separate article, and the dog is already covered on Don Cherry's article. I considered going with Delete since I honestly don't think the article's title is a particularly likely search term, but Redirects are cheap. Rorshacma (talk) 15:33, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Redirect Per the article, it's not even a dog, but several consecutive ones with the same name. As noted above, the actual topic here is obviously Don Cherry. TompaDompa (talk) 21:13, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was Move to Pleasant Grove child murders. There seems to be consensus that the event is notable, but not the perpetrator. TigerShark (talk) 02:01, 6 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Overturned at DRV to No Consensus. -- RoySmith (talk) 14:28, 19 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Megan Huntsman[edit]

Megan Huntsman (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Patent WP:BLP1E. ––FormalDude talk 03:56, 13 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  • Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: People, Crime, and Utah. ––FormalDude talk 03:56, 13 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    KeepMerge or improve. I think BLP1E is primarily concerned about if we should have an article about the event or the person behind the event. So the main conclusion we can draw here is that there should be an article about the murders. And therefore we should vote merge to that article. If there is not one, the answer is to edit this article into an event article. ie. improve, rather than delete.
    Read https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Notability_(people)#People_notable_for_only_one_event carefully if you doubt my analysis please. CT55555 (talk) 04:50, 13 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    A deletion discussion should not have an outcome of "improve". If the article can be improved, you should improve it yourself. And we cannot merge it to an article that does not exist. These are separate topics, this one clearly violates BLP1E. A deletion of this article does not prevent someone from creating an article about the event, it stops them from creating them about the person, which is inline with Wikipedia policy. ––FormalDude talk 12:55, 17 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    It doesn't "violate" BLP1E, BLP1E just says it would be better to have an article about the event. Article improvement is a great outcome of AfD. If you are unwilling to make any improvements and somehow think only others should be compelled to do that, then that is your choice, but the AfD trows urgency into the mix and forces action on your timeline. Suggest you withdraw the AfD and drafity and then I actually will work on it without the rush. CT55555 (talk) 13:05, 17 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    Article improvement is often a good result of AfD, but it should never be an outcome that the AfD is closed as. At this point, another editor has already commented on the merits of a potential event article, so I'm not comfortable withdrawing it. ––FormalDude talk 13:23, 17 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    As you wish. Just for clarity, I support drafity as a better outcome than deletion and volunteer to make changes. Maybe I'll get to this before AfD closes, maybe not. CT55555 (talk) 13:43, 17 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    To clarify my comment below, I favor deletion because in addition to WP:BLP1E, based on my research, it does not appear that an article about the event can be supported at this time, per the WP:EVENT guideline, which is designed to help evaluate topics per the WP:NOTNEWS policy. For example, I have not found WP:INDEPTH coverage in reliable sources, only listicles of similar events generally, and I have not found indications of WP:LASTING effects or a demonstrable long-term impact since the initial burst of 2014/2015 news published during or immediately after the event. The apparent lack of sufficient WP:CONTINUEDCOVERAGE to support the development of an event article also seems to weigh against draftifying the article. Beccaynr (talk) 14:00, 17 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    We aren't here to force someone to improve the article, only stating why it should or should not be deleted. Oaktree b (talk) 13:52, 20 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    If I thought the article could be improved (according to our policies and guidelines), my !vote would be different. Beccaynr (talk) 21:20, 20 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Women-related deletion discussions. Spiderone(Talk to Spider) 18:44, 13 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete per WP:BLP1E and WP:NOTNEWS, e.g. Wikipedia considers the enduring notability of persons and events. While news coverage can be useful source material for encyclopedic topics, most newsworthy events do not qualify for inclusion and Wikipedia is not written in news style. Coverage does not appear to be WP:SUSTAINED, and there appear to be no WP:LASTING effects from the event, international coverage is not a sufficent basis on its own to support notability, particularly without a demonstrable long-term impact, WP:INDEPTH coverage does not appear to be available, because Media sources sometimes report on events because of their similarity (or contrast, or comparison) to another widely reported incident. Editors should not rely on such sources to afford notability to the new event, since the main purpose of such articles is to highlight either the old event or such types of events generally, and per the WP:CONTINUEDCOVERAGE guideline, Events that are only covered in sources published during or immediately after an event, without further analysis or discussion, are likely not suitable for an encyclopedia article, so there also does not appear to be sufficient support for an WP:EVENT article. Beccaynr (talk) 22:00, 13 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Do not delete Do not delete Megan Huntsman as the article is better put together than other existing articles about serial killers and her case is notable and infamous with a YouTube video about her having 1.3 million views.--Shktriib1 (talk) 00:09, 16 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    @Shktriib1: It doesn't matter how well put together it is if it violates Wikipedia's notability policy. ––FormalDude talk 12:50, 17 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

And what about her case being infamous with a YouTube video about her having 1.3 million views doesn’t that count as notable? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Shktriib1 (talk • contribs) 00:20, 19 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Fame may be considered, but according to our policies and guidelines, we also need sources to help us develop an encyclopedic article. According to the notability guideline, Determining notability does not necessarily depend on things such as fame, importance, or popularity—although those may enhance the acceptability of a subject that meets the guidelines. The guidelines are explained on that page, which also references the What Wikipedia is not policy. For this article, the WP:NOTNEWS policy appears to favor deletion of the article, because according to the WP:BLP1E policy (which applies to people notable only for one event) and the WP:EVENT guideline, there does not appear to be enough coverage in independent and reliable sources to write an encyclopedia article about the person or the event. Beccaynr (talk) 15:29, 19 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, RL0919 (talk) 04:21, 20 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  • Weak keep better need of sources. Oaktree b (talk) 12:10, 20 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    Did you even read the above discussion? Better sources do not exist. ––FormalDude talk 12:20, 20 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    I find Global News, the Independent, an NPR report. Lots of sources. Oaktree b (talk) 13:40, 20 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    None of which overcome WP:BLP1E. ––FormalDude talk 13:42, 20 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    We have plenty of sources, it even passes WP:GNG, tons of media coverage as a serial killer. More than notable here. Reliable sources, sustained coverage in multiple languages (English, Spanish, Norwegian, French). We have articles on other serial killers, how is this one different? A series of sustained events over the course of a decade, coverage in multiple language sources. Oaktree b (talk) 13:48, 20 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    Also mentioned in books and peer-reviewed journals. We've kept articles with less sourcing, this is almost a slam-dunk notability case. "Sustained coverage" being the idea here. She's cited as a "case study" in this scholarly work: [6]. That's more than WP:BLP1E, you're well into an academic review of her life. Oaktree b (talk) 13:54, 20 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    She's also got four feature articles in the New York Times, I'm not sure how much more sourcing you need? Oaktree b (talk) 13:59, 20 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    The "case study" mentioned above is presented as a prompt for discussion along with 3 other cases, without context or analysis about Huntsman or the event, and all of the information is cited to a 2014 HuffPost article [7]. On GBooks, there is Serial Murderers and their Victims, also citing her as a case study at p. 309, telling the reader to "Google this case" and then asking a series of questions, not offering analysis. This type of superficial coverage appears to be insufficient per WP:NOTNEWS, including as discussed in greater detail in the WP:BLP1E policy as well as the WP:SUSTAINED and WP:EVENT guidelines. Beccaynr (talk) 14:15, 20 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    Four feature articles in the NYT and sustained media coverage over 10 yrs in at least 4 different languages, are notable. ~~ Oaktree b (talk) 21:09, 20 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    Over ten years? I'm not seeing any reliable significant sources that aren't from 2014 or 2015. That's two years, and it's strictly in the context of one single event. And I'm not seeing any sources at all that are from before 2014, which is eight years. ––FormalDude talk 21:15, 20 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    Oaktree b, if you could link to the four feature articles in the NYT and sustained media coverage over ten years, that would be appreciated. I would like to review the sources according to our policies and guidelines. Thank you, Beccaynr (talk) 21:15, 20 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    https://www.nytimes.com/search?query=%22Megan%2BHuntsman%22, sorry, three. I'm not analyzing each and every source, I'm not this invested. Leaning withdraw my vote this point. Oaktree b (talk) 22:32, 20 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    WP:SNOW, wp:don'tcarethatmuch Oaktree b (talk) 22:35, 20 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Comment (I already voted above) Google books searches shows the following from 2015 to 2021:

  1. 9 sentences (half a page) in: Hall, S., Hall, S. (2020). The World Encyclopedia of Serial Killers: Volume Two, E–L. United States: WildBlue Press.
  2. 11 sentences here: Women in the Criminal Justice System: Tracking the Journey of Females and Crime. (2015). United States: Taylor & Francis.
  3. Preview isn't clear, at least some senteces here: Sabharwal, S., Sabharwal, S. (2021). Spiritual Genocide: The Reincarnation of Earth. United Kingdom: Page Publishing, Incorporated.
  4. 4 sentences here: Family Murder: Pathologies of Love and Hate. (2018). United States: American Psychiatric Association Publishing.
  5. 8 sentences here (in Indonesian) Perempuan & Ibu. (2021). (n.p.): Hasfa .

There are very many more books about serial killers that talk about her and her crime. Also I want to improve upon what I said above. This is not one event. She is famous for killing six children, so that's at least six events, not counting the court events. CT55555 (talk) 22:28, 20 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I think for the purposes of WP:BLP1E, the serial killing is one event, because six event articles would not be created instead of a BLP, if sufficient sources are available to support an article per the WP:EVENT guideline.
  • For The World Encyclopedia of Serial Killers, WildBlue Press appears to be a Vanity press, e.g. from their submission page: "We charge authors NOTHING upfront." (and SFWA describes fee-charging as an "abusive practice" by publishers). The brief overview at what appears to be p. 213, per WP:BLP1E, covers Huntman 1. in the context of the serial killing event, her pleading guilty after the discovery, and her subsequent prison sentence; provides no indication that 2. she previously was not low-profile or is unlikely to continue to remain low-profile; and does not indicate 3. the event is significant, or that Huntsman's role was substantial or well-documented. Four of the sentences focus on her estranged husband.
  • I had skipped over Women in the Criminal Justice System: Tracking the Journey of Females and Crime because I recognized the citation in the case study at p. 202 as the same 2014 HuffPost article noted above in this case study without context, which is the full chapter in the book, cited as Dodson, K. D., and L. N. Cabage. (2015). Mothers who kill. In T. L. Freiburger and Catherin D. Marcum (Eds.), Women in the criminal justice system: Tracking the journey of females and crime. pp. 189-208. The overview similarly does not demonstrate how this is not WP:BLP1E.
  • Spiritual Genocide: The Reincarnation of Earth is published by a pay-to-print publisher, and promotes itself e.g. "Every chapter is like a photograph in God's album surveying the past, present, and the possible future of this unremitting heavenly war and its everlasting effect on Earth and her population."
  • Family Murder: Pathologies of Love and Hate at pp. 55-56 seems to be more of a passing mention as one of two cases that "recently made international news" and compares her as similar to another case explored in greater depth, noting Huntsman also had living children. It also cites a study estimating the rate of neonaticide. This mention does not appear to help avoid WP:BLP1E.
From my view, if she had not pleaded guilty, there would have been a trial and there likely would have been a lot more coverage that could have demonstrated this is not WP:BLP1E or that an WP:EVENT article could be supported. A trial and the resulting coverage and analysis could have demonstrated a substantial or well-documented role, and/or the significance of the event, in the media, culture, or psychological/criminological literature, along with in-depth discussion. Due to how low-profile she appears to have remained, we do not have a lot of in-depth information about her or the event, and it does not appear possible to write an encyclopedia article according to our policies and guidelines. Beccaynr (talk) 00:11, 21 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I really struggle with the idea that 6 murders on separate dates are "one event". If six people were killed on the same day, then I'd see it differently, but this was a series of murders that took place over years.
I'm sure she would like to be low profile, but I don't think that serial killers are considered low profile. It's difficult to say this and sound neutral and not sound cruel, but killing people I think is an activity that tends to attract attention, is a high profile type of activity.
I took a read of WP:SELFPUB and it is clear about not using self published sources in the context of BLP, so fair point. I see WP:HUFFPO is considered a good and a bad source depending if it is written by a contributor or staff, do you know which is is, is that why you think that's a problem? I always considered people following up on news a sign of notability.
Either way, I think our different view here hinges on if we consider six separate murders to be one event or six, and I just can't accept the argument that six separate murders is one event or that convinced murderers have taken part in only low profile activities. CT55555 (talk) 00:38, 21 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
At AfD, when I try to use sources to show that a subject is not WP:BLP1E because of more than one event, I point to coverage at different points in time for different things. Based on the sources, she is only covered after being discovered as a serial killer, admitting to the crimes when questioned by police, pleading guilty, and being sentenced to prison. There does not appear to be a separate 'event' from this per the sources, nor any indication she previously was or has since been anything but low-profile. That she was high-profile for this one event is not enough to clear WP:BLP1E and support a BLP.
Given that this appears to be WP:BLP1E, the question becomes whether we can avoid deletion per WP:NOTNEWS by finding sources to support an event article with assistance from the WP:EVENT guideline. It does not appear possible due to the lack of support in the sources for the kind of depth etc, discussed in my comments above about the guideline.
Also, I did not look closely at the 2014 HuffPost "Megan Huntsman arrested after 7 dead babies found in Utah garage" article (which appears to no longer be working) because it seems to be part of the same burst of news, similar to the other contemporaneous sources (the NYT coverage noted by Oaktree b above is also from circa 2014). I do not think per WP:BLP1E nor the WP:EVENT guideline that a 2015 source summarizing a news article as a case study without any in-depth discussion is sufficient support for an encyclopedia article. Beccaynr (talk) 01:16, 21 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I think she is notable for murdering six times, not just for being arrested afterwards.
Aside from the one/six events point, dismissing on the basis of BLP1E would also require us to imagine that a serial killer is a low profile person and likely to remain so...in the context the general public generally tending to be interested in serial killers, there being books about serial killers, me having mentioned some above (acknowledging some were self published and should be discounted.)
I understand that most coverage happened at the time. But not all did. And six murders is six events to me, therefore making any policy about "one event" irrelevant. I don't think we're going to reach consensus here, so I'll respectfully switch back into watching mode. All the best to you. CT55555 (talk) 01:35, 21 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
BLP1E would require one of those six murders to be individually notable, but none of them are because they were never known until the arrest, and we still don't even know when or how exactly they occurred. The only notable event is her being arrested for killing children. It's not comparable to the notability of a serial killer as the victims of serial killers are usually publicized overtime (albeit as individual murders), whereas in this case nobody was even reported missing because nobody was known to have died. ––FormalDude talk 02:00, 21 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
So she's notable then for the mass of killings lumped together and the sustained coverage in several books as noted, in several languages, as noted, and being used as a case study for discussion in a classroom setting. Even the volume of talk about the case here shows me it's more than a trivial, one-time event. Ok she's not the Ted Bundy-type killer that will get movies made about her, but she's talked about more than your average-Joe serial killer that does the stuff then gets put away and never spoken about again. We have multiple discussions in different types of media, it passes BASIC and GNG in my eyes. Oaktree b (talk) 20:00, 22 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The two brief mentions in RS books refer to the news coverage, with one book published in 2015 summarizing one 2014 article to form a "case study" (not an actual case study) for discussion (without actual discussion), shortly after the event, and the other referring to "recently made international news" and in a brief mention finding her noteworthy only for having also had living children.
There are also WP:BLP issues to consider, given the limited information available, and how reliant the burst of tabloid-style news coverage is on allegations made by other people. I have also checked the WP Library and found more tabloid coverage and similarly-styled churnalism with limited encyclopedic information that appears to conclude with her incarceration.
There appears to be no sustained in-depth coverage beyond repeated gossip and allegations because there was no trial, and no forensic examination that ever became public that could be subject to analysis. Instead of vaguely waving at "books" that so far have included obviously non-RS sources, it would be appreciated if sources that support notability per our policies and guidelines could be identified. Thank you, Beccaynr (talk) 20:31, 22 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I do not think we should imagine anything, but instead should review the sources and whether they are sufficient to support a BLP or event article pursuant to our policies and guidelines. This particular serial killer does not appear to have support in the sources or P&Gs for an article - per the low-profile explanatory essay linked to WP:BLP1E, e.g. she has not been self-promotional, has not been a featured performer or speaker at publicly-advertised events or produced publications, she has not sought or held a position of pre-eminence, power, or authority, and she is not engaged in high-profile activity. That there are books generally about serial killers is not sufficient per the WP:EVENT guideline or WP:BLP1E to help this subject overcome deletion per WP:NOTNEWS. Beccaynr (talk) 02:01, 21 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. Clearly notable, clearly meets WP:GNG and clearly does not violate BLP1E. -- Necrothesp (talk) 09:04, 22 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    Also seems to satisfy WP:CRIME, number 2. I find no less than 4 podcasts/youtube videos that talk about her, in French and in English, all made in 2020 or 2021. These aren't super reliable sources, but it shows sustained coverage to pretty much the present time. Oaktree b (talk) 20:04, 22 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    WP:CRIME, for perpetrators #2 states The motivation for the crime or the execution of the crime is unusual—or has otherwise been considered noteworthy—such that it is a well-documented historic event. Generally, historic significance is indicated by sustained coverage of the event in reliable secondary sources which persists beyond contemporaneous news coverage and devotes significant attention to the individual's role. This is not supported by sources that lack reliability or brief mentions in RS that lack WP:SECONDARY context or commentary. If anyone finds sources that may help support notability per our guidelines and policies, please link to them in this discussion. Thank you, Beccaynr (talk) 20:50, 22 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    She's been cited as a case study in books published by the American Psychiatric Association as explained above [8] This was in 2018. This is used to teach students, a reliable secondary source which devotes attention to her role in a discussion about neonaticide. This was in 2018, a decade after the last death. An entire generation of students will have studied her in this context. Oaktree b (talk) 02:55, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    This in addition to the two case studies above, well over a decade after the event. She's used to explain the pathology of mothers who kill their children, it's not substantial simply because she plead guilty and was quickly taken away. We have the fact that it's even being mentioned over a decade later. "Generally, historic significance is indicated by sustained coverage of the event in reliable secondary sources which persists beyond contemporaneous news coverage and devotes significant attention to the individual's role". The key word is "generally" and not "always". She more than meets the first part of WP:CRIME, 2. These aren't self-published vanity press type things, these are textbooks, used to educate future psychological professionals. Most would not have even heard of this lady by the time they reach college in 2018, showing sustained coverage for well over 10 yrs. Oaktree b (talk) 03:07, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    She's also cited, again as a case example, in this PhD dissertation from 2022 [9] This shows ongoing interest in her case and in the events, largely in academic circles. This student was a young person when the murders happened yet she's fully aware of them and mentions them two decades later. Clearly the case has interest in academic circles, especially among young people. Oaktree b (talk) 03:21, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    A 2022 PhD dissertation from Alliant International University that mentions the case after the 2014/2015 burst of news following the discovery of the bodies but is focused on "Examining Psychotherapist’s Experience with Filicidal Parents: A Qualitative Study on the Therapist’s Personal Experience of Therapy, the Working Alliance, and Countertransference" is not significant attention to her role, and I question whether this is a sufficiently reliable source for the purpose of supporting notability. Do you have a page number for where she is mentioned? I have not been able to find it. Beccaynr (talk) 03:50, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    Where is she or her case used in reliable sources to explain the pathology of mothers who kill their children? Criminology has a variety of ways to analyze people and their behavior, usually by devoting significant attention to the individual's role - is there any indication of WP:SECONDARY coverage, as opposed to brief summaries of 2014/2015 news coverage following the discovery of the bodies? Due to the lack of substantial coverage, all we could do with these sources is indicate she is mentioned.
    There are also constitutional criminal procedure issues that secondary sources could have commented on, but did not, and an appearance of significance and seeming interesting is not enough to support an article. Per WP:N, it is not enough to assert WP:GNG if this article should be excluded by WP:NOT and the related policy of WP:BLP1E. Beccaynr (talk) 04:08, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    She was briefly mentioned, but not as a case study, in the 2018 book published by the APA, as explained in comments above - it is brief attention to her in a discussion about neonaticide (which makes sense, considering how little reliable information is available about her), and identifies her as one of two examples of serial neonaticides that "recently made international news". The four sentences that directly talk about her and her case are cited to a 2015 LA Times article about the sentence she received after the bodies were discovered in 2014. Per WP:CRIME, this is not significant attention to her role, and does not support the historic significance of the crime. Beccaynr (talk) 03:33, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    It's gained academic significance, the young woman is risking her livelyhood by including Megan's crimes in her PhD dissertation. The fact that she's discussed at all in academic circles largely negates the historical significance of her event, she's used in an educational context to train people, which is a higher standard. She's become part of the historical canon of these types of events to help contextualize the crime and psychology involved. Oaktree b (talk) 03:39, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    I realize our comments are overlapping a bit, but do you have a page number for the Alliant International University PhD dissertation mention of Huntsman? I would like to better understand why including Huntsman in a PhD dissertation is a risk to a livelihood, when two RS feel comfortable summarizing one news article during the 2014/2015 burst of news that followed the discovery of the bodies. It is also not clear to me why you assume the PhD writer is young. Also, per WP:SCHOLARSHIP, Completed dissertations or theses written as part of the requirements for a doctorate, and which are publicly available (most via interlibrary loan or from Proquest), can be used but care should be exercised, as they are often, in part, primary sources. Some of them will have gone through a process of academic peer reviewing, of varying levels of rigor, but some will not. If possible, use theses that have been cited in the literature; supervised by recognized specialists in the field; or reviewed by independent parties. I think care is warranted for a dissertation from Alliant International University that is a qualitative study of the therapist's experience if there is no indication that Huntsman was a subject of the therapist. Beccaynr (talk) 04:23, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    I was implying that she needs to "pass" by having this dissertation accepted or she doesn't get awarded the PhD. She's not (from what I can tell) treated Hunstman, but considered her important enough to be studied. Oaktree b (talk) 11:40, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    I'm only able to get a limited view of the dissertation. The killer's name comes up in a snippet view and doesn't appear in the version of the paper I've downloaded (it's in the pages that aren't included in the preview). Oaktree b (talk) 11:47, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    The dissertation abstract concludes by stating "A phenomenological approach of investigation is utilized to investigate the experiences therapists working with parents who have murdered of their child(ren)." Based on the table of contents, it seems reasonable to speculate that a mention of Huntsman may occur at p. 17, Repeated Neonaticide. Based on the overall focus of the dissertation, and how other examples are presented in the introduction/literature review, it seems much more difficult to presume that this is an in-depth analysis of Huntsman. This dissertation is primarily a study of therapists, labelled "Participant One", Participant Two", etc., working with clients labelled "A", "B", "C", etc. Beccaynr (talk) 15:01, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    How is this not a violation of BLP1E? She's a low profile individual with no significant lasting coverage. ––FormalDude talk 21:57, 22 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    Her case has been used, no less than 4 times, in the broader discussion of the pathology or though process of infanticides, for a decade at least, in individuals that would have little to no knowledge of the events at the time they happened. Sustained, academic interest is more than enough for BLP1E. Oaktree b (talk) 03:24, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    There also have not been a large amount of crimes that match what she did, so the pool of things from which to choose sources is rather small. The fact that she's mentioned at all, from a group of less than 10 such events, in scholarly circles and in teaching material over a decade and a half later shows the importance they attach to her crimes. Oaktree b (talk) 03:29, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    A group of less than 10 such events? The data presented by the RS generally does not seem to support this, and it is unclear what source you are referring to for this claim. Beccaynr (talk) 04:28, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    It was discussed in one of the books with the case studies, involving either patricide or fratricide with multiple children. I can't recall exactly where it was. They seem to break down the crimes based on the killer's reason for doing the crime (compassion vs the need to eliminate the threat of a child etc) and honestly it was getting too far down the rabbit hole for me to pay that much attention to it. My point was a general observation rather that citing a specific source. Oaktree b (talk) 11:53, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    Serial Murderers and their Victims discusses the rarity of female rampage/spree serial killers at p. 308 and then states that women killers are much more likely to be "quiet" and "low visibility". It moves on to a boxed profile of Huntsman, noting "as of this writing, insanity was not being considered as a plea in this case, although mental health issues may well have been a factor" before asking the reader to Google the case and asking questions about her motive. The book also discusses "black widow" killers at p. 312, defining them as "women who kill their husbands, children, or other relatives" and states "Elderly men and women, and especially babies, became their targets" and then refers to Chapter 6 in the book (where Huntsman does not appear to be mentioned). The book also notes the lack of research into female serial killers and says "the public displays more amusement than concern" about various cases, particularly compared to various male serial killers.
    The PhD dissertation from Alliant International University includes a summary overview of known motivations with brief examples, and I was asking for a page number because I did not see Hunstman described, and based on how little appears to be known about her and what happened, I would be somewhat surprised to see her classified because there appears to be little more than sensationalism and speculation about her motives.
    The chapter from Women in the Criminal Justice System: Tracking the Journey of Females and Crime discusses, e.g. Resnick's, Scott's, d’Orban's, Baker's and Meyer and Oberman's typologies for filicide, and concludes with four boxed summaries of cases (labeled "case study" although I object to the use of this term for our purposes, because of how it may sound like an in-depth analysis when it is not) that summarizes one news 2014 article about Huntsman after her arrest. The preceding questions includes one that asks the reader to "Pick one of the following cases: Marybeth Tinning, Susan Smith, Andrea Yates, and Casey Anthony." None of the questions reference the boxed "case studies". Huntsman unfortunately appears to be treated essentially as a footnote.
    The 2018 book by the APA states at p. 55, "A young woman who has just delivered is far and away the most common perpetrator of neonaticide", that the mother "almost always acts alone", usually concealed the pregnancy, and that recent studies indicate neonaticide occurs when the birth is not the result of a first pregnancy. The book then moves on to generally note cases of serial neonaticide occasionally "appear in the media" and then describes a recent case in somewhat detailed paragraph, and then Huntsman in four sentences - the section then concludes, without WP:SECONDARY commentary, analysis, or further discussion applying the preceding concepts to Huntsman.
    I questioned your characterization because based on my review of sources, I have not seen indications of an in-depth review of Huntsman or indications of historic significance related to her crimes. Beccaynr (talk) 14:36, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    Wasn't asking you. You said you didn't care. ––FormalDude talk 03:37, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    I don't care, but I'm helping move the discussion forward. I guess we all have an axe to grind after all. Oaktree b (talk) 03:41, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    I'm analyzing my sources, not ones people tell me to analyze. That's not how this discussion works. Feel free to agree or disagree, don't tell others what to do. At the end of the day, I won't lose sleep if this gets deleted/don't particularly care about it, but still can help others who do make decisions. Oaktree b (talk) 03:43, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    That's my axe I'm grinding. I'm searching for what I think are sources, if they get shot down, I try again. I enjoy the search to be honest, more than the result. The journey, not the destination. Oaktree b (talk) 04:00, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    You've made over 20 comments to this discussion, and are interrupting my attempt to address another editor. Stop the bludgeoning. ––FormalDude talk 04:18, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    ok Oaktree b (talk) 05:24, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    @FormalDude: Oaktree b is perfectly entitled to respond to you. May I suggest you dial back on the rudeness. Given you have responded copiously to any editor who has not voted delete, I don't actually think the "bludgeoning" is down to Oaktree b! If she fails BLP1E then pretty much any murderer would fail BLP1E. How many are known for anything other than murdering somebody? In this case, she is a serial killer, used as a case study in reliable sources and her case is highly unusual. No, not BLP1E at all. -- Necrothesp (talk) 07:52, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    Thank you, this is why I've been hesitant to contribute. I've been trying to keep my points to policy arguments or source discussion. I'm not sure we're at a place of agreement on quality sources found yet. Oaktree b (talk) 11:38, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    Other murderers would not fail WP:BLP1E if e.g. per #3, the event was significant or the individual's role was either [...] substantial or [...] well documented. John Hinckley Jr. is noted as an example because the event was significant and his role was both substantial and well documented. As discussed in detail in comments above, Huntsman is not used as a case study and her case is not highly unusual per the few reliable sources that mention her and her case after the initial burst of sensationalist news coverage.
    Other murderers also might not fail WP:BLP1E if they had, per #2, not been or did not appear to other remain a low-profile individual, and this has also been discussed in detail in comments above as applied to Huntsman. There also has been no indication, per #1, that Huntsman has been covered by reliable sources beyond the context of a single event.
    Our policies and guidelines, including WP:BLP, WP:BLP1E, WP:CRIME, WP:EVENT and WP:NOT appear to converge with the same general purpose and guidance to find better and more in-depth sourcing than has been found in this discussion to support an article. I have been mentioning but I think it may be worthwhile to emphasize the WP:BLP aspect of this, because the lack of in-depth WP:SECONDARY coverage of Huntsman appears to leave us with little more than sensationalism about her, which is contrary to policy. Beccaynr (talk) 15:25, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: Fellow volunteers, it seems like you are not going to persuade each other. Please consider if there is advantages to discuss further, noting that someone will need to read all of this to close it and so much text might put off others from contributing, which would be a shame, new perspectives here might be helpful. CT55555 (talk) 04:32, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    It would be helpful if anyone could provide reliable secondary coverage that demonstrates this article should not be deleted per WP:NOTNEWS and WP:BLP1E. So far, this does not appear to have happened, despite multiple requests. WP:ROUGHCONSENSUS is not determined by counting heads, but by looking at strength of argument, and underlying policies and guidelines (if any). Arguments that contradict policy, are based on unsubstantiated personal opinion rather than fact, or are logically fallacious, are frequently discounted. [...] Wikipedia policy requires that articles and information comply with core content policies (verifiability, no original research or synthesis, neutral point of view, copyright, and biographies of living persons) as applicable. These policies are not negotiable, and cannot be superseded by any other guidelines or by editors' consensus. Beccaynr (talk) 04:44, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    Other than the extended, but brief, scholarly review of her case (the thesis and the three case studies/mentions), I find none. I'm not sure any can be found at this point; the article will likely be deleted in that case. Oaktree b (talk) 11:43, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Need more input from other people. I think you've all said what you need to say for now, so let others take a look.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 13:47, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. TigerShark (talk) 23:23, 5 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Albany Junior High School[edit]

Albany Junior High School (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Shaky notability, mainly based on irrelevant details and listing. A WP:BEFORE gives nothing significant, so fails WP:GNG The Banner talk 09:56, 13 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Would you consider a redirect or merge to North Harbour, New Zealand#Education or Education in New Zealand? There is definitely not the same move to Keep as in previous AFDs.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 20:55, 20 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Definitively keep I was amused when I saw this article pop up as an AfD because it makes absolutely no sense to delete it. This is because there are articles on almost all New Zealand secondary schools that satisfy the criteria to be Wikipedia articles, so why would this school be any different. The lack of calls for keep on this AfD is irrelevant as both of the previous AfDs had clear arguments in favor of keeping the article which still stand and have not been well refuted. Generally, users external to New Zealand - who are overwhelmingly featured on this AfD - are not well placed to comment on the notability of New Zealand subjects. Other New Zealand secondary school articles (see Template:Schools in Auckland) often include government data about the school, information about its demographic, school history, etc. As has been mentioned in the previous AfDs, this particular school is more notable than other schools (that don't get regularly subjected to AfDs) because it is particularly unique. This amounts to more than just "controversy." The argument that the school would be better suited in an article about NZ education is invalid as this school uses an atypical educational structure and would not work in an article about NZ education, especially given that it is not merely "educational structure" that makes it notable. Contrary to what has been claimed, the article does not fail GNG and BEFORE as the article could be significantly improved through basic editing. This is evidenced by other NZ secondary school articles that have all easily found the necessary coverage and sources when someone has gotten around to editing them, as will happen with this article in time.
This AfD has the same nominator and same disproven nominating argument as the previous AfD. The circumstances of the article have not changed either. Therefore, the outcome should be the same. In the previous AfD, a user said that "To bring this here after a previous overwhelming 'keep' discussion is purely and simply disruptive, time wasting, and pointy, as the nominator well knows." Such a comment is increasingly relevant in this third nonsensical AfD.
MangoMan11 (talk) 12:55, 26 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I wish we had a bevy of New Zealanders to participate, but we don't. @MangoMan11:, could you point out what sources could lead non-Kiwi's to agree? Jacona (talk) 16:05, 26 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • there’s enough. Add in the dozens of brief mentions at the New Zealand herald and another news website, and I’m completely satisfied.Jacona (talk) 22:39, 26 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Passing mentions will held no sway. The Banner talk 23:11, 26 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
To be clear, here's the guideline WP:SIGCOV: "Significant coverage" addresses the topic directly and in detail, so that no original research is needed to extract the content. Significant coverage is more than a trivial mention, but it does not need to be the main topic of the source material. -- That's what I'm talking about, if you google this subject you will see that plenty of the results are SIGCOV, in addition to the already-sufficient-for-GNG sources in the article. Jacona (talk) 23:22, 26 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Passing mentions will held no sway. The Banner talk 23:44, 26 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Would you kindly point out the policy that says "Passing mentions will held no sway."? Jacona (talk) 23:55, 26 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Jacona That is an WP:IDIDNTHEARTHAT comment. It was just pointed out to you. WP:SIGCOV requires that sources address the topic "directly and in detail". Passing mentions lack detail and therefore are excluded as evidence of notability under out guidelines.4meter4 (talk) 19:31, 27 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I'm sorry you feel that way. I'm feeling that way about The Banner's statement. If you read the above, I'm the one that quoted SIGCOV. The Banner appears to refute SIGCOV with the statement "Passing mentions will held no sway". Since they appears to be arguing against SIGCOV, I'm really not certain what they mean. Jacona (talk) 19:42, 27 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Point is that the reasoning behind that is exact what you quoted earlier: "Significant coverage" addresses the topic directly and in detail, so that no original research is needed to extract the content. Significant coverage is more than a trivial mention, but it does not need to be the main topic of the source material. Mentioning a name is not in detail. And it start to look that you misinterpreted SIGCOV by claiming that every minor detail is relevant towards notability. It is not. The Banner talk 08:41, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete refer to WP:SCHOOLOUTCOMES as there is nothing notable at this stage about this school. Just because it exists does not meet the notability guidlines. The discussion of the "controversial" topic of Junior High Schools in NZ education would sit better under Education in New Zealand. NealeWellington (talk) 01:01, 27 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    A quick google search yields a multitude of sources that include things such as notable alumni and unique things about the school beyond just the Junior High "controversy" (this is without needing to delve into extensive in-depth research). I think it's safe to say that the topic itself is notable and has significant coverage, the issue is that the article itself is a stub so far (for which AfD is not a solution). MangoMan11 (talk) 01:44, 27 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • From that quick search Here are three. These are not "passing mentions", and could be used to expand article content. [10] [11][12]
    • Looks like three one-off events. Nothing in-depth about the school. And how many school will teach their pupils about government and politics? 100%? The Banner talk 14:28, 27 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    • "And how many school will teach their pupils about government and politics? 100%?"
    Actually no, this isn't the case in New Zealand (I've heard that it also isn't the case in many other countries as well). Civics education is at the discretion of individual schools and many don't teach it or teach it adequately. The schools that do teach it can choose how they teach it as well (I personally think this needs to change but that's irrelevant to this), so this source is actually very useful for showing the individual curriculum of the school. While the source could be easily misinterpreted as a "one-off event" (since elections are events) the source explained that the mock election was part of a unit that they run on civics education and detailed other aspects of the unit (the title even explains it: "Albany Students' mock election all part of the learning process"). So if you read into it a bit more it becomes clear that, while on the surface level it may seem to be an event, the source is not about an event and is actually about the school's civics curriculum. This is why I think that "Generally, users external to New Zealand - who are overwhelmingly featured on this AfD - are not well placed to comment on the notability of New Zealand subjects" as, like in this instance, many assume that things in NZ are exactly the same as they are in other countries. MangoMan11 (talk) 02:31, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete. Fails WP:SIGCOV and WP:SCHOOLOUTCOMES. None of the sources address the school "directly and in detail" as required by our guidelines. Local news coverage of events held or sponsored by the school are not SIGCOV per the RFC ruling at SCHOOLOUTCOMES and WP:NOTNEWS. In order to establish SIGCOV of the school we would need to see sources where the school is the primary subject (not a school event or the school's students, or a school response to something like COVID19; but a detailed account of the school and its history).4meter4 (talk) 19:38, 27 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    WP:SIGCOV explains that "directly and in detail" means "more than a trivial mention, but it does not need to be the main topic of the source material." You're right that the school is not the primary subject for many of these subjects (but also is for several of them), however it doesn't need to be the "main topic" as explained in SIGCOV as the sources still contain more than a trivial mention; so they do actually pass SIGCOV. MangoMan11 (talk) 02:02, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 13:43, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Malcolmxl5 (talk) 14:22, 5 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Jimson Olufuye[edit]

Jimson Olufuye (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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CEO of non-notable companies; zero reliable sources with depth-of-coverage; just press releases and mentions. Prod was disputed by page creator. OhNoitsJamie Talk 13:45, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was speedy delete. User requested. Jay (talk) 13:34, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Francis Orville Libby[edit]

Francis Orville Libby (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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No evidence found that he was in any way notable. The company, perhaps, in which case this could be a redirect. No good sources for Francis Orville Libby, I can't even find him or the company in the first source given[13], the second source is a passing mention[14], third source is a passing mention again[15]. No better sources found online (GBooks and Google). Fram (talk) 12:37, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, was planning to create the company article instead, with a redirect, after discovering a couple of errors in my local history book, including mention of a brother he apparently did not have. Can I request a speedy-delete, being the author, even though it's now an AfD? Seasider53 (talk) 13:00, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, you can tag the article as G7 speedy delete, shouldn't be a problem. Fram (talk) 13:14, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete. plicit 12:37, 5 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Iris Aggeler[edit]

Iris Aggeler (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Fails WP:SIGCOV, WP:BIO. Don't see any evidence of work. es-wiki article tagged with promotion. Refs seem to be mixed spam. Can't find evidence of work. scope_creepTalk 11:49, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  • Delete per nomination. --Vaco98 (talk) 12:32, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Artists, Women, and Mexico. Shellwood (talk) 13:54, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment There's something very strange going on with the sources. Some of them don't mention Iris Aggeler at all, some mention another Aggeler, and a source like Nava Polina, Joel (1 March 2013). "Una Vida de Interdisciplina, gesta la Multidisciplinariedad en el Arte". No. 92. Tabi Tabi Japón. La guía de Asia y Oriente en México. which I found at https://issuu.com/tabitabitoyo/docs/tabitabi92marzo13 is about another artist called Iris. Other sources, like Casares, N; Lizana, X (July 2006). "Arte off / Off Art". No. 16. international contemporary art. Spain. that links to https://art.es/ can't possibly have worked. The wayback machine shows that as far back as 2006, that site has been about an architectural firm. I have the impression that the subject may use a number of different aliases: Ra'al Ki Victorieux , Iris Atma, Iris Mexico, among others. Vexations (talk) 14:05, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Hi Vexations, I noticed that is well. Its weird. I noticed that some of the refs has "Iris Mexico" which may be a alias or artist name or something like that, but couldn't find Iris Aggeler herself. The refs of newspapers which are not properly formatted can be checked and didn't see the name there either. scope_creepTalk 14:49, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Hi, yes, the artist was born Iris Merino Aggeler, and has used as principal pen names: Iris Aggeler, Iris México, Iris Atma, and also Ra'al Ki Victorieux. She has more "stage names" because her performance art has been around identity exploration. Lingua88 (talk) 08:19, 29 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I noticed the spam links to some architetural firm, which is really odd. scope_creepTalk 14:50, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
It is not a reference to an architectural firm. It is about an art magazine edited in Spain. YOu can see more about the magazine in this link https://fondodocumentalainsa.com/documento/art-es-no-53-54/ Lingua88 (talk) 08:31, 29 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The URL https://art.es/ was wrong. http://www.art-es.es/ was the URL for the magazine, but has since 2018 been used by a translation service. An archived copy of the website is at the way back machine: https://web.archive.org/web/20061205054525/http://www.art-es.es/ Vexations (talk) 14:30, 29 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you. I don't know how to put doble links for the magazine on the references. Could you help me with that? Lingua88 (talk) 00:32, 4 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete I am not finding evidence of notability. Same creator in English and Spanish. Uploads to commons seem to be images of a particular show. I surmise that this is possibly a fan page. The language is very puffy. I don't read Spanish, so I cannot comment on the citations. WomenArtistUpdates (talk) 01:36, 29 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    You can find more uploads to commons in the category Iris Atma https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Iris_Atma Lingua88 (talk) 08:47, 29 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Hi @Lingua88: Has the lady been in any international exhibitions, for example? scope_creepTalk 13:34, 29 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
As suggested, I made a section with the subject: international exhibitions. I hope so you can find more value in this article. Thanks. Lingua88 (talk) 23:57, 29 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I do not know why you tell me this, and you even have the audacity to delete it, you can well search the data of more images with other names of various characters. JavierHuertaLopez (talk) 02:25, 30 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
It was not at all obvious at the time the article was nominated, and it still is not at all reliably sourced that all these names are in fact the same artist. The sourcing is completely inadequate. I still see no evidence of significant coverage in independent, reliable sources. I suggest that editors who have a conflict of interest declare it, especially if they are paid to do so. Note that it is very easy to identify single-purpose accounts who are only here advocate on behalf of a subject. Vexations (talk) 11:26, 30 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Greetings. It turns out that I'm starting to collaborate on Wikipedia. So, in my archive as a cultural promoter in Puebla, the last visual arts exhibition I organized before the pandemic, in July 2018, was that of Iris Aggeler (Ki Victorieux). From there are the 4 images that I donated to commons and the first ones with which I contribute to this platform. I didn't expect so much conflict for it. Tell me, what should I do? Erase those 4 photos? JavierHuertaLopez (talk) 17:28, 4 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete - There is something deeply odd about this article. The ambiguity needs to be sorted out. If it is found that she meets WP:GNG which I do not think she does, then WP:TNT is suggested. I get it that artists sometimes work with alter egos, however something is not adding up. JavierHuertaLopez and Lingua88 do you have a personal connection to the artist to declare? Netherzone (talk) 21:27, 2 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    I am interested in contributing with articles about art, mainly women artists. I'm still learning how to do references in the right way, and some other things. My problem is: When I write about men, cool, that is done. But when I write about women artists, I get notifications of promotion or deletion.
    https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usuario_discusi%C3%B3n:Lingua88 (2 promotion)
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Lingua88 (1 deletion)
    I would spend more time improving my articles, but I have to study and do other things. I'm just here because of the pandemic, which has given me more time at home. Lingua88 (talk) 15:36, 4 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    I maintain my position that there is no reason, what is merely solid in the reasons why you want the article to be deleted, when and that it is about a person merely known in Mexico, as a public figure, has appeared in various national media, has a long history which is recognized by the Mexican government who has published her work, international exhibitions, recognition from several countries such as Germany, in short, I could well tell you about the importance of this multifaceted artist and perhaps there is not enough information in your language and perhaps this is an impediment, or is the “language barrier” an impediment? Isn't that enough for you to stay? JavierHuertaLopez (talk) 01:25, 5 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    Thank you for your timely notes @JavierHuertaLopez, @Lingua88, I am wondering if you would be so kind as to answer the question I posed above. I guess I'm also wondering, too, if there is a connection between the two of you as well. Netherzone (talk) 02:19, 5 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Hi @Lingua88: Is her work in any kind of well known museums of modern art, or visual arts. That would help. scope_creepTalk 16:31, 4 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete. plicit 12:37, 5 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

2Meka Diaz[edit]

2Meka Diaz (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Fails WP:MUSICBIO; WP:GNG - no coverage of this "rapper, actress, songwriter and activist" on offer, sources are all incidental. No notability offered for any of these roles, no chart position for BMS or any other recording. "Has been the subject of multiple, non-trivial, published works", that's a straight 'no', right there. Alexandermcnabb (talk) 11:04, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  • Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Bands and musicians, Music, and United States of America. Alexandermcnabb (talk) 11:04, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete Agree with nom, mostly trivial mentions, no charted singles. Oaktree b (talk) 11:31, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete - She has appeared as a guest rapper on several tracks by more famous people and as a supporting actress in productions also featuring more famous people, but she is only ever described as present in the credits. The article has a lot of citations, but several do not mention her at all and are instead about her collaborators, and those that do list her are either brief credits or hyped up publicity statements. I can find nothing reliable about her career in its own right. ---DOOMSDAYER520 (TALK|CONTRIBS) 14:03, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete. plicit 12:37, 5 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Tagzig Olmo Lung Ring[edit]

Tagzig Olmo Lung Ring (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Very poorly referenced article. BEFORE shows a few hits but the sources look dubious (self-published, or new-agish like Crystals and Sacred Sites: Use Crystals to Access the Power of Sacred Landscapes for Personal and Planetary Transformation). One (self-published...) source claims it is another name for Shambhala (and our article on the latter mentions the former, discussed here, as "closely related"). This is reliable, but not WP:SIGCOV. The best souce I found is [16], also the spelling is a bit different. "'Ol-mo-lung-ring"). Can anyone improve this so it meets [[WP:GNG], or if it looks dubious, should we merge/redirect this? Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 10:03, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was soft delete. Based on minimal participation, this uncontroversial nomination is treated as an expired PROD (a.k.a. "soft deletion"). Editors can request the article's undeletion. plicit 12:39, 5 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Ehsan K. Matoori[edit]

Ehsan K. Matoori (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Fails WP:GNG, WP:MUSICBIO created by SPA, very little content/context on offer, very little sourcing on offer, either - and what there is, is largely tangential to the subject. Alexandermcnabb (talk) 09:57, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was redirect to Toulon Tournament. plicit 12:40, 5 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

2020 Toulon Tournament[edit]

2020 Toulon Tournament (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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The tournament was cancelled, and as a result, it fails WP:GNG, as there is not significant coverage about it. Only 7 teams were ever announced, and there doesn't look to be much other coverage about it (other than saying it's cancelled) Joseph2302 (talk) 09:41, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. plicit 12:40, 5 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Afreen Rahat[edit]

Afreen Rahat (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Fails WP:GNG, WP:ACTOR. Coverage incidental and passing, claimed lead role in non-bluelinked film, local beauty pageant finalist. Alexandermcnabb (talk) 09:17, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per WP:ACTOR --Bash7oven (talk) 17:57, 30 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. plicit 12:41, 5 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

V. M. Munusamy[edit]

V. M. Munusamy (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Unverified and virtually unverifiable, as far as I can see an entirely OR wall of unreferenced text with almost incomprehensible grammar and syntax. Sourcing is problematic at least, subject fails WP:GNG in any case. Tempted to G1 speedy, brought it to AfD so you can view in awe before voting. Alexandermcnabb (talk) 09:01, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  • Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Politicians and India. Alexandermcnabb (talk) 09:01, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I looks like a probable copyvio as well since that does not look like original prose. Mccapra (talk) 12:39, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete: The same user created this article in Tamil Wikipedia on the same day [17], so the copyvio may be in that language. Almost certainly a copyvio, and even if not, he's not notable. Curbon7 (talk) 15:52, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete. plicit 12:41, 5 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Bobby Wilson (Pittsburgh politician)[edit]

Bobby Wilson (Pittsburgh politician) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Fails WP:GNG; WP:NPOL. Representing 1st District on Pittsburgh City Council, does not pass having held "international, national, or state/province–wide office, or have been members of legislative bodies at those levels." Alexandermcnabb (talk) 08:37, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  • Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: People, Politicians, and United States of America. Alexandermcnabb (talk) 08:37, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete city council members are only very rarely notable for such, and we lack the broad scope of sources we generally need to show a local politician is notable.John Pack Lambert (talk) 13:49, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete. Strictly speaking, it's irrelevant that Pittsburgh City Council doesn't pass NPOL #1 ("international, national, or state/province–wide office, or have been members of legislative bodies at those levels") — because right under NPOL #1 there's also a cute little thing called NPOL #2, or "Major local political figures who have received significant press coverage", which it is very possible for a Pittsburgh City Councillor to pass. The problem is, however, that NPOL #2 doesn't confer an automatic inclusion freebie on all city councillors, and this article isn't really doing enough to demonstrate that Wilson would pass it since he isn't really the subject of most of the sources. I also note that there are only 31 other people filed in Category:Pittsburgh City Council members, of whom the clear majority have also served in more notable offices such as mayor, the state legislature or US Congress at other times in their careers — there are very few people in that category who have articles based solely on having been city councillors in Pittsburgh per se, and even some of those few may need to be reviewed and/or listed for AFD too. Bearcat (talk) 21:56, 1 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was soft delete. Based on minimal participation, this uncontroversial nomination is treated as an expired PROD (a.k.a. "soft deletion"). Editors can request the article's undeletion. plicit 12:42, 5 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Craig Jacobs[edit]

Craig Jacobs (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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A theatrical stage manager. Fails WP:GNG; no significant indepth coverage, no evidence of notability. Alexandermcnabb (talk) 08:31, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was no consensus. This has run a month, and I do not see any situation where a consensus is going to evolve. Note, socks, duplicate votes have been disregarded, but even among established editors and the later trend-we do not have clear keep consensus here. Suggest discussion continue editorially as to whether a merger would be a solution or a size issue. Star Mississippi 14:14, 8 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

List of Bengali songs recorded by Runa Laila[edit]

List of Bengali songs recorded by Runa Laila (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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like the dozens of other articles this user has created, this isn't a necessary standalone list and is basically just an itunes directory. Anything relevant can be included in the main article about Runa Laila (as in anything that can be sourced outside of places to buy it.) PRAXIDICAE💕 20:09, 2 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

What would you say about those articles? List of songs recorded by Neha Kakkar, List of songs recorded by Lata Mangeshkar, List of songs recorded by Shalmali Kholgade. They are also similar type of directory and should be deleted for the same reason. I hope everyone will consider my points. Abbasulu (talk) 20:41, 2 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@Abbasulu: Please see WP:WHATABOUT. "What about (something)?" is an argument strongly discouraged in deletion discussions. The linked page says:

The nature of Wikipedia means that you cannot make a convincing argument based solely on whether other articles do or do not exist, because there is nothing stopping anyone from creating any article.

I.hate.spam.mail.here (message me | my contributions) 22:17, 2 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Music and Lists. Shellwood (talk) 20:19, 2 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Women, Albums and songs, and Bangladesh. CAPTAIN RAJU(T) 20:34, 2 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete per WP:NOTDIRECTORY and WP:INDISCRIMINATE, obviously enough. Wikipedia is not itunes. RandomCanadian (talk / contribs) 19:15, 3 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    There are many list articles precisely of a person’s discography, very similar to this. Why nominate this article for deletion in particular? Abyan Malek (talk) 04:59, 4 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    Probably you have not watched these articles List of songs recorded by Armaan Malik, List of Urdu songs recorded by Shreya Ghoshal. Both of these articles are similar, they are simply a collection of names of their songs, as is this article. And the latter lne is a collection of just 12 entries, very small article. This can easily be redirected or merged in her discography article. Plaese consider these cases and judge fairly. I see many similar but weaker discography or itules type indiscriminate lists stay in wikipedia for years but not raising any eyebrews. Abbasulu (talk) 14:33, 4 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    Happily obliged: both of these are now at AfD. RandomCanadian (talk / contribs) 02:40, 5 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep because arricles like this exist but theres no reason to delete this because it may be similar to an 'itune' listing. Abyan Malek (talk) 5:06, 4 June 2022 (UTC)
    Per WP:DEL-REASON: Reasons for deletion include, but are not limited to, the following: 14. Any other content not suitable for an encyclopedia. This, being a trivial directory-like listing of seemingly every song ever recorded by some artist (information which probably is of no interest whatsoever except to the most dedicated of fans), is obviously "not suitable", as explicitly established by the community. Similarly problematic lists should also be deleted - go read WP:WHATABOUTX: it is quite possible that the other article should also be deleted but nobody has noticed it and listed it for deletion yet. RandomCanadian (talk / contribs) 05:28, 4 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Redirect to Runa Laila#Discography as WP:INDISCRIMINATE. SBKSPP (talk) 23:31, 7 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Previously closed by Superastig as "redirect to Runa Laila#Discography as an WP:ATD. Discarding the "keep" votes which state WP:OTHERSTUFF. Anyone is free to merge anything important to the target article." This was overturned as a WP:BADNAC at Wikipedia:Deletion review/Log/2022 June 20.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, King of ♥ 08:17, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

In contrast, there are strong policy-based arguments that this list does not belong in Wikipedia, which does not aim to be a list of everything, but to be a high-quality encyclopedia. Being an encyclopedia means not just listing songs in a discography, but providing prose analysis of them, summarizing what reliable sources say about their recording, reception, significance, and influence.
This list also fails the most common notability guideline for lists, because no independent reliable source has discussed the Bengali songs recorded by Runa Laila as a group. And it fails the three purposes of lists. Without analysis, the list does not convey encyclopedic information. Out of the roughly 700 songs, none has a Wikipedia article, and there's no evidence that any of them are notable, so the list does not allow the reader to navigate among them. If it is intended as a development list, it should be in user space, not article space.
Merge is inappropriate because only about 4% of the songs cite any source, the sources don't always support all of the content where cited, and the sources aren't always reliable (IMDb, Amazon). Redirect is an alternative to deletion that recognizes that the content does not belong on Wikipedia. Redirect is not inappropriate, but not particularly helpful in this case, as any reader looking for a list of songs recorded by Runa Laila will find Runa Laila with or without a redirect. --Worldbruce (talk) 01:23, 30 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Regarding a redirect, I agree that WP:RKEEP 3 (aids search) does not really apply. Searching for the exact list title returns unrelated "List of songs recorded by" articles, but the shortened and more likely Bengali songs Runa Laila returns Runa Laila as its first result, followed by an Urdu song list and this list. Intersecting List of Bengali songs recorded by Runa Laila#Album songs and Runa Laila#Discography, the only overlap is the album Ganga Amar Ma Padma Amar Ma. Its track list is not included in her article – to be clear, I oppose merging it as it would overwhelm the section – and it doesn't have an article, so a reader looking for Bengali songs would not find them. This approaches common WP:Redirects for discussion rationale "not mentioned at/in target" and WP:RDELETE 2 (confusing). Flatscan (talk) 04:35, 30 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Instead of replying, Please clearly cast your opinion, whether you support for deletion or keeping. It will count as a vote. Thank you. Abbasulu (talk) 08:08, 30 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The policy based argument, made in an old AfD of a similar article (recently quoted at another AfD), appears to be WP:WORKS. Hemantha (talk) 12:09, 4 July 2022 (UTC) (Nota bene Blocked sockpuppet) --Guerillero Parlez Moi 21:01, 4 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strongly Keep - The other two articles on Runa Laila has successfully survived deletion. This discussion is meaningless. Most of the directory articles have easily survived deletion. Abbasulu (talk) 08:02, 30 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
That's twice now you've voted. Avilich (talk) 12:38, 30 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@Abbasulu You're not allowed to vote twice. SBKSPP (talk) 00:03, 2 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep: Discography of a notable singer is a valid WP:CFORK. Venkat TL (talk) 08:20, 30 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Music, and India. Hemantha (talk) 12:00, 4 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep, per arguments that have been extensively developed in related AFDs (and which I thought, apparently incorrectly, that I had already posted here), and in particular per the following:
    • Absent strong considerations to the contrary, WP:EDIT and particularly WP:PRESERVE prevail, and issues over the scope and content of these lists should be addressed through collaborative editing (the "wiki process"), for which AFD is neither necessary nor helpful. And there are no policy-based reasons for deletion or removal here, let alone any strong ones, as detailed below.
    • I'm not sure CFORK is quite on point here, but it doesn't matter, because this seems like a perfectly cromulent WP:SIZESPLIT.
    • NOTADIRECTORY first observes that Wikipedia does often provide useful directory-like functions, but qualifies this with six examples of directories that Wikipedia is not. Only two of these exclusions could conceivably apply here, but neither actually does: (1) This is not a "simple listing without contextual information showing encyclopedic merit", because the value of this list precisely comes from the "contextual information" with which this list is richly endowed. (2) This is also not a "non-encyclopedic cross-categorization": language is a logical categorization that arises directly from the subject matter. A "non-encyclopedic cross-categorization" would be something like "Songs performed by X in movies that also featured views of the Taj Mahal."
    • INDISCRIMINATE states that "data should be put in context with explanations referenced to independent sources", and provides some specific examples of indiscriminate content (none of which apply -- a list of songs is not a "lyrics database"). Even if a "should" could create a basis for deletion, it does not do so here, because this list does put its data into context. Although we might quibble over the current state of sourcing of this list, that is a matter for improvement, not deletion.
    • WP:NLIST: (a) does not provide an independent basis for deletion, since it merely enumerates one example of a type of list that is generally considered non-deletable, and (b) is highly unlikely to apply when the topic of the list is the very same body of work for which the singer is notable in the first place, as is the case here.
    • WHATABOUT / OTHERSTUFFEXISTS is a subsection of an essay about how some Wikipedians dislike some arguments. In fact, the longstanding presence of numerous lists of this kind is a far better guide to global Wikipedia consensus, as established through collaborative editing, than any local consensus could ever be in the unrepresentative environment of AFD. (For a different take than mine, but one that still takes the wind out of the sails of this popular shout-down, see the essay Wikipedia:When to use or avoid "other stuff exists" arguments.) I could write up an essay about how WHATABOUT is a silly argument and go around citing that as if it were policy, but that would be just as ridiculous as citing WHATABOUT in this way.
    • Finally, per the great-grandmother of all policies, this content is useful and encyclopedic and Wikipedia would be diminished by its absence. Therefore, any guidelines, policies or essays that appear to militate against its inclusion are either being misconstrued or are so inapposite that they can reasonably be ignored in this and similar cases. Likewise, any claims that arguments not grounded in (other) Wikipedia policies should be ignored as not being "policy based" should be disregarded, because (a) they ignore the reason for having policies to begin with and (b) such gatekeeping is fundamentally contrary to the idea of an open wiki. -- Visviva (talk) 04:59, 5 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep Lists like this of notable singers in South Asian Indian film industries where songs are important to the films are perfectly fine, but they've got to be better sourced. ♦ Dr. Blofeld 11:06, 5 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep Runa Laila is notable and her work is notable. This informative list belongs in Wikipedia. Aymatth2 (talk) 14:00, 5 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep Visviva's overview is an excellent rationale. ShahidTalk2me 19:00, 5 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete Discography not discussed in WP:Reliable sources ("If no reliable sources can be found on a topic, Wikipedia should not have an article on it"). Does not contain "contextual information showing encyclopedic merit" (IINFO, NOTDIRECTORY, etc.), and is only as good as the spotify and apple music directories which it solely cites as sources. Avilich (talk) 02:32, 6 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep: Per Visviva, the many "policy-based arguments" for deletion are, at the very least, misconstrued and wrongly applied to this article and do not stand under scrutiny. The suggestion that a listing of songs of a singer (that is, their body of work) is not notable is silly when the singer's claim to notability is coverage of that very body of work. The grouping by language is most likely a WP:SIZESPLIT because a single page would be too long to navigate comfortably. DeluxeVegan (talk) 17:25, 6 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep Per Visviva; + would especially like to emphasise this part of WHATABOUT which is all too frequently ignored: "If you reference such a past debate, and it is clearly a very similar case to the current debate, this can be a strong argument that should not be discounted because of a misconception that this section is a blanket ban on ever referencing other articles or deletion debates." Regards, --Goldsztajn (talk) 10:11, 7 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep per arguments above, this seems like a perfectly valid supplemental page. Artw (talk) 16:02, 7 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was merge to Tenuta MonteRosola. North America1000 08:36, 5 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Gottfried E. Schmitt[edit]

Gottfried E. Schmitt (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Fails WP:GNG; WP:BASIC. Founded a wine estate, no longer owns it. And that's that, really. Owning a vineyard is a desirable thing, granted, but it's not notability. Alexandermcnabb (talk) 14:07, 6 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  • Delete sources are insufficient. Does not meet notability.Craigwikiman (talk) 18:21, 6 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    Blocked for UPE. MER-C 06:18, 11 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Query why is this listed under military AFDs? There doesn't seem to be any claim of military service/involvement. Mztourist (talk) 10:10, 7 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@Mztourist:I have absolutely no clue. Finger trouble - apologies. Best Alexandermcnabb (talk) 12:04, 11 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, RL0919 (talk) 16:04, 13 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment I only have one hit in English here [18] with versions of the same article in French and Spanish, rest are in Swedish or German as cited. Leaning non-notable, would appreciate if someone could comment on the other sources used in the article. Oaktree b (talk) 19:21, 13 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 23:15, 20 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: More participation needed - is the subject notable?
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Less Unless (talk) 08:08, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. (non-admin closure) ––FormalDude talk 20:09, 2 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Petr Fradkov[edit]

Petr Fradkov (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Non-notable person, CEO of a bank that doesn't grant WP:ANYBIO Bash7oven (talk) 07:24, 21 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  • Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Businesspeople, Politics, Economics, and Russia. ––FormalDude talk 07:38, 21 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep While I'd have gone delete, the multiple mentions of him with regard to sanctions, I suspect, make him a geopolitical figure and get him past WP:GNG - "If the depth of coverage in any given source is not substantial, then multiple independent sources may be combined to demonstrate notability" Best Alexandermcnabb (talk) 10:17, 21 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    perhaps. a profound review of each source is needed in that case. but, I still think he's not so big a geopolitical figure. Maybe, he could be merged with his father. His father is indeed a geopolitical figure. Bash7oven (talk) 11:32, 21 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, plicit 07:25, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Comment still no reliable sources there. His father is a famous figure, so it would be wise to merge into his father's page: Mikhail Fradkov --Bash7oven (talk) 12:11, 30 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. plicit 12:43, 5 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Met English[edit]

Met English (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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No sourcing found. WP:BEFORE involving GBooks turned up only false positives using the phrase "met English" in other contexts, even with "MetLife" and "programming" added. Prod by Jax 0677 contested without comment Ten Pound Hammer(What did I screw up now?) 00:57, 21 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  • Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Computing-related deletion discussions. Ten Pound Hammer(What did I screw up now?) 00:57, 21 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak keep Had a pretty a pretty productive search on GBooks including finding pointers to a court case involving the language(!)[40] and a paper[41] which goes pretty in depth on its use and operation. Artw (talk) 15:13, 21 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    If the article remains slight would also accept and an appropraite list of business computing languages exist would also accept a merge there. Not seeing a candidate that quite fits the bill. Artw (talk) 15:44, 21 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • comment you appear to have removed your own Prod, what’s up with that? Artw (talk) 15:27, 21 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    The article had already been prodded by Jax 0677, which I did not realize until after I had applied my own prod. Ten Pound Hammer(What did I screw up now?) 15:46, 21 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    Cheers for the clarification! Artw (talk) 15:50, 21 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment. Here's a couple of things I found. [42], [43] This pre-dated the internet, makes searching difficult. Jacona (talk) 14:20, 22 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    First one might just be a reflection back of Wikipedia, unfortunately. Second is pretty slight. Artw (talk) 14:26, 22 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    This shows it in use up through the 90s but is not really usable. Artw (talk) 14:28, 22 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, plicit 07:22, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  • Delete I have heard of this, and suspect it has some mentions in old textbooks somewhere, but I can’t find any significant coverage. I actually know a current day programmer at MetLife, but they are on different platforms and arrived far too late to use this code. While it’s possible a mention of this may belong in a history of programming somewhere, I don’t think it deserves a stand alone article. Jacona (talk) 13:28, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was soft delete. Based on minimal participation, this uncontroversial nomination is treated as an expired PROD (a.k.a. "soft deletion"). Editors can request the article's undeletion. Liz Read! Talk! 07:33, 5 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

R. E. Bradshaw[edit]

R. E. Bradshaw (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Fails WP:AUTHOR, WP:GNG: self published, no notability, was indeed a finalist in the Lambda Awards, and mentioned in passing in awards listings, but an award - let alone award finalist - is not notable as per WP:AUTHOR. More importantly, we fail WP:GNG as there is no "significant coverage in multiple published secondary sources that are reliable, intellectually independent of each other, and independent of the subject." Alexandermcnabb (talk) 07:22, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  • Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: People, Authors, and United States of America. Alexandermcnabb (talk) 07:22, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete. I was unable to find GNG-supportive sources. I looked using her pen name and real name using The Wikipedia Library Search, ProQuest, Newspapers.com, and Google News. I found no in-depth coverage. Searching using "Vicki Thomas" was complicated somewhat by the existence of California-based YA fantasy author Vicki D. Thomas], who as far as I can tell is not the same as North Carolina-based lesbian mystery author Thomas/Bradshaw. Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 14:14, 3 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was speedy deleted per WP:G11. (non-admin closure) ASTIG️🙃 (ICE-T • ICE CUBE) 14:35, 30 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

One Mega Group[edit]

One Mega Group (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Fails WP:NCORP. Theroadislong (talk) 06:41, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Liz Read! Talk! 06:31, 5 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

RAVe Publications[edit]

RAVe Publications (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Unclear notability, self-promotional. -- Beland (talk) 06:24, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. Rough consensus is that being the subject of an in-depth Washington Post profile, together with other sources, is enough for notability. Sandstein 07:42, 6 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Keffals[edit]

Keffals (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Lack of significant coverage per WP:N. Only 1 article sourced from a well-regarded reliable source (Source 1, WashingtonPost) as per WP:RS that provides significant coverage and does not mention her in passing, as per WP:GNG and WP:NBASIC. PurpleTurdle (talk) 05:22, 28 June 2022 (UTC)PurpleTurdle (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]

  • Comment: nom has no edits outside this nomination. Likely WP:SPA. SWinxy (talk) 05:26, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    Please address the lack of significant coverage of Keffals as per WP:N from reliable sources as per WP:RS and not that this is my first edit. I am a frequent enjoyer of Wikipedia and have noticed this article does not rise to certain levels in regard to writing quality and notability that Wikipedia usually maintains for its articles. PurpleTurdle (talk) 05:40, 28 June 2022 (UTC)PurpleTurdle (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]
    Is that why your first edit with a new account was to add a PROD to an article that clearly had various references in the article already, in direct violation of what PRODing an article is meant to be used for? SilverserenC 05:59, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    I did not violate anything as per WP:Proposed Deletion. The article was nominated for deletion due to the lack of sources providing significant coverage to the article's subject. In only two sources is the article's subject not mentioned in passing. One is a mainstream reliable source, and the other is a college newspaper in which the notability can be argued, which is why this discussion page was created. PurpleTurdle (talk) 06:10, 28 June 2022 (UTC)PurpleTurdle (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]
  • Only 1 article that does not mention her in passing. This is inaccurate.
  • Keep. Concur with the others concerned about SPA nominating this. Even that notwithstanding, as noted by the de-PRODder of this article, notability is shown in references, especially entire article in WaPo dedicated to subject. ser! (chat to me - see my edits) 10:41, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep almost entirely out of spite for the nomination. --Golbez (talk) 16:49, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    Do you have a reason other than pure spite? Alduin2000 posted a more expansive reasoning for why this article may not meet notability requirements. Thank you. PurpleTurdle (talk) 23:57, 28 June 2022 (UTC)PurpleTurdle (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]
    No but I have decided I don't care. --Golbez (talk) 01:59, 29 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak delete: some of the sourcing I think is not as good as some of the keeps so far suggest. For example, reference 11 is by We Got This Covered which is listed as a generally unreliable source on WP:RSP. The idea that she is given "major focus of two out of six paragraphs in reference 10" also seems a little misleading; she is given a few sentences of coverage at most here and it is all in connection to an event to which she is of at most secondary importance. It seems that a better evaluation of this source is that she is only given a trivial mention. This is also clearly true of reference 4 which merely lists her name without writing anything else about her at all. Reference 11, alongside three other references in the article, are from a student newspaper. These may be reliable in this article to the extent that they are about their school and local community per WP:RSSM, but they seem a lot weaker when used to show notability compared to more mainstream sources. The remaining sources are by the Washington Post, Vice, Workers World, and Dexerto. The Washington Post article is clearly an example of significant coverage from a reliable source. The Vice article includes a tweet by Sorrenti but doesn't actually give any coverage to her in the article prose. I'm not sure if Workers World is reliable but it is clearly not independent in this case as it is reporting on the Workers World Party for which it is the official newspaper. Dexerto is listed as an unreliable source at WP:VG/RS. So overall we have one good source providing significant coverage and a few other more borderline student media sources to support notability. I would prefer to see significant coverage from some more reliable sources to support notability than this and would change my vote if anybody found more (I failed to find any more significant coverage on a brief search). I would also support making this article a draft so that it can be developed as more sourcing becomes available in future. Alduin2000 (talk) 16:56, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    What about this article https://londonfuse.ca/clara-sorrenti-young-determined-unapologetically-communist/ Stircla (talk) 20:38, 28 June 2022 (UTC) Stircla (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]
    Significant coverage but I'm worried about the quality of the source. Looks like the website uses volunteer contributors but I'm not sure how much editorial oversight they have or whether or not pretty much anyone can contribute for them [44]. Alduin2000 (talk) 21:33, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    I agree. London Fuse looks like a local community magazine, heavily focusing on London, Ontario social justice and culture. That isn't bad by itself, but I don't think it will keep up with WP:RS standards. That, and a visit to their about page provides a pop-up announcing they're shutting down this month, due to volunteer burnout. I couldn't find even a mention that they have editors for the articles. JungleEntity (talk) 15:38, 29 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Is it normal to have the nominator change the nomination reason over 15 hours after the nomination? Twice? SWinxy (talk) 00:35, 29 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    The nomination was clarified, as I was not clear enough the first time. The content of the nomination was not majorly changed, just words reworked and references to the correct Wikipedia guidelines added. The first sentence is the main reasoning for this nomination for deletion. I am not sure if this is normal, but I do not intend to deceive anybody with "tricky editing" or anything of the sort as the history of this page and my edits are publicly available. Revert it if I am explicitly breaking any rules, but I do not believe I am. Thank you. PurpleTurdle (talk) 01:34, 29 June 2022 (UTC)PurpleTurdle (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]
Your edits are only publicly available if you mention your previous account(s). No editor starts editing Wikipedia with an AFD, knowing about Wikipedia policies. Liz Read! Talk! 05:07, 29 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete: per Alduin2000's reasons, there is really only one source of any relevance which is the Washington Post article dedicated to the subject itself and this is cited around nearly half (9 times) out of a total of 20 non-unique reference's. If more notable mainstream sources focused specifically on the subject itself can be found then it can be kept in my opinion but at the moment that is not so. Also on a general notability scale of viewership, (not that relevant to this discussion on the basis of guidelines but I thought I might mention it) someone averaging around 500 viewers on a Twitch stream doesn't really deserve an entire article dedicated to themselves, there are still YouTubers with millions of subscribers who don't have articles due to no notable sources covering them specifically! Tweedle (talk) 11:00, 29 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    No one is saying that she's notable because of her regular Twitch viewer count, so this isn't dispelling any of the arguments that support her notability. If someone does something newsworthy in front of a security camera with no regular viewers, that person still did something newsworthy, which can significantly contribute to the notability required for a Wikipedia article. Chai T. Rex (talk) 21:56, 1 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    Then what is she notable for? The WP post is the only reliable, in depth source about her referenced in the article, and someone just having a WP article doesn't pass the notability requirements of Wikipedia. JungleEntity (talk) 22:55, 1 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    I only wanted to dispel the notion that her average viewer count should decrease her notability. It merely doesn't add to it. As far as what she's notable for, I'll leave that for those discussing it elsewhere on this page. Chai T. Rex (talk) 00:50, 2 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete: agreeing with what has already been said above. It's great that she's an activist and helping raise money for causes she's passionate about, but it very much seems like this person is only famous for "ratioing" and Twitch streaming (which, even then, is only averaging around 500 viewers according to Tweedle). I don't think that makes her notable enough for an article, and combined with having really only one good source, makes this a delete for me. Edit: WP:N, specifically WP:NTEMP and WP:NSUSTAINED should be heavily considered. JungleEntity (talk) 15:26, 29 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    It is irrelevant here why you personally think she's notable. You are attacking a strawman argument of your own creation. No one here is making the argument that we should keep the article because she ratios people or because she has such a huge Twitch follower or viewer count, so the fact that those don't justify keeping the article is irrelevant because it doesn't address the reasons actually given here for why we should keep the article. Edited to add: There was one argument that she was a particularly prominent trans Twitch streamer, which I don't think helps her notability in the sense of having a huge follower count alone, but no one is saying that she's huge overall. Chai T. Rex (talk) 19:03, 2 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    I understand that no one here is making the argument that her ratioing or her Twitch statistics make her notable, but that's what the article is conveying to me (at least at the time I wrote my delete vote). If all the article talks about is her un-notable online career and un-notable political career, then I'm going to think that she doesn't meet our notability requirements, and thus vote delete. The reason why I say her online and political careers are un-notable is because the article only has one reliable citation that goes is directly about her, the Washington Post article. The others are either not about her directly, or don't meet Wikipedia's reliable sourcing requirements (as in the case with the London Fuse citation). No strawman argument needed.
    Having one good citation isn't enough for WP:BLP. This, coupled with the fact that the only source that goes about Keffals in-depth is published very recently, makes me question whether she is notable enough for an article if she doesn't meet the requirements of WP:NTEMP and WP:NSUSTAINED. JungleEntity (talk) 18:51, 3 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Very week keep based on the sourcing present, I think she just barely clears the bar of notability (and given that she is likely to remain prominent and attract more coverage, I'm more lenient here than I would be in other borderline cases, where additional future sourcing is unlikely to exist ever). I disagree with some others that she isn't notable because she's mainly famous for Twitch streaming and her activity on Twitter; people can be notable for many things that others would consider rather silly. Elli (talk | contribs) 16:26, 29 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    Additionally, if this does get closed as delete, I would prefer if the article is moved to draftspace instead of entirely deleted, as it is likely that the subject will attract more coverage in the future (so it would be beneficial to retain the existing article instead of starting over). Elli (talk | contribs) 16:27, 29 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. Meets GNG, with even the deletion !votes acknowledging that the WaPo profile is in-depth, significant coverage. Apart from that source, the aggregate of the other sources suggest the subject also meets WP:BASIC, which says "If the depth of coverage in any given source is not substantial, then multiple independent sources may be combined to demonstrate notability." Arguments based on the average number of viewers of a Twitch stream can be ignored as that is not a metric we use. gobonobo + c 17:05, 29 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    I disagree that the aggregation of the other sources meets WP:BASIC, or at least that the aggregation of some sources does.
    Reference 4 is volunteer run, with no editorial oversight (they mention nothing about editors on their site), and is shutting down this month.
    Reference 2, reference 5, and reference 8 are all from a university student newspaper, and while that doesn't make it intrinsically unreliable, they all focus on hyper-localized events and groups (in this case, the university), and none have the Keffals as the primary subject of the article.
    Reference 11 is confusing - I don't know why Keffals is mentioned at all, but it seems to be just a list of recent "notable stories", and the little blurb about the WP writing about Keffals is probably more than trivial in WP:N eyes. Reference 7 may be in the same boat, but is better than reference 11.
    Reference 10 only includes a small blurb about how Keffals highlighted the incident, and most definitely does not meet the non trivial standards in WP:N.
    This article in general probably has a lot to be looked at through WP:N. Is Keffals' notability WP:NTEMP? Or WP:NSUSTAINED? The WP article was published 3 days ago, and everything before 2022 (besides her comment on a WP article) are just her involvement in local political groups, and even are just mentions of her leadership roles. JungleEntity (talk) 18:24, 29 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    Just wanted to note (as I was a delete !vote who acknowledged the WaPo profile as significant coverage), I also don't think the other sources amount to a fulfillment of BASIC. It notes that multiple less substantial sources may be used to make up notability but also notes that trivial coverage is excluded from this consideration ("trivial coverage of a subject by secondary sources is not usually sufficient to establish notability"). However, as I stated in my vote, I believe that the only non-trivial coverage that is from reliable, independent sources is the WaPo article and possibly the student newspaper pieces. For the purposes of notability, multiple pieces from the same institution are generally thought to constitute a single independent source, so the student newspaper pieces do not amount to the "multiple independent sources" required for fulfillment of BASIC. It seems that since I wrote my !vote here, an article from Columbia Journalism Review has also been added. But I don't think this contributes to BASIC because (per WP:N) "It is common for multiple newspapers or journals to publish the same story, sometimes with minor alterations or different headlines, but one story does not constitute multiple works" and the CJR article is basically just covering the WaPo story and so doesn't constitute a separate work for the purposes of showing notability. Overall, I think my basic problem is that it doesn't appear that the sourcing is there to be able to create a relatively complete article without resorting to original research. And I think that is a solid sign that GNG and BASIC are not met. Alduin2000 (talk) 15:52, 1 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong Delete Considering the WaPo article is focused on the subject's Twitch career, I'd say those metrics matter. Not sure who "we" is though. Furthermore, Youtube views and likes on tweets that are about anything BUT "ratios" seem to have less than 1/4th of average engagement. WP:BASIC says "multiple published secondary sources that are reliable" and yet, there's only 1, WaPo. None of the other sources that give some sort of significant coverage can be considered reliable. AustralianFarmer (talk) 18:23, 29 June 2022 (UTC) AustralianFarmer (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]
  • Keep. She's the most popular trans twitch streamer and does a lot of trans activism. That makes her notable. Snokalok (talk) 00:26, 1 July 2022 (UTC) Snokalok (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]
    Being the most popular (debatable on metrics terms) or one of the most popular of 'x' doesn't mean that said subject warrants or deserves a Wikipedia article dedicated to themselves because of that merit. As I have already pointed out there are many YouTuber's with millions of subscribers who don't have articles due to lack of sourcing and I am willing to wager there are many popular YouTuber's/Twitch streamers/TikToker's etc. of 'x' nationality for example (you can pick any identity here) who don't have articles where this same argument would apply. In this case as already previously mentioned meets limited notability with only really one good source being decent with the others being of questionable quality. Tweedle (talk) 08:40, 1 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong Delete agreeing with what has already been said above. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.70.44.9 (talk) 02:29, 1 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Worth noting this IP's only contributions have been deliberately misgendering the subject of the article and this vote. ser! (chat to me - see my edits) 08:59, 1 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. I think the WaPo article in combination with the other references is sufficient to show notability. Printfn (talk) 04:14, 1 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak Delete The individual is the center of the WaPo article but in the rest of the cited material she is only mentioned in passing or the reputability of the publications is questionable. I question the motives and reasoning for this article's existence as well seeing as the individual's twitter mentions obtaining a wikipedia article in order to get verified on twitter: https://web.archive.org/web/20220630173516/https://twitter.com/suskeffals/status/1541538361504108544 MerlinsSister (talk) 12:26, 1 July 2022 (UTC)MerlinsSister (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]
    Her tweet is irrelevant, as she didn't create the article or edit it. There's literally no policy on Wikipedia allowing the deletion of an article because the subject is happy about its existence or finds it useful. Edited to add: Her tweet (9:46 PM · Jun 27, 2022) came about a day after the first edit creating the article (20:29, 26 June 2022‎) and about half a day after the edit moving it from a draft into an actual article (09:51, 27 June 2022). It's clear from this that she didn't know it existed when tweeting. As far as the timing, this is also during the same day and the day after the publication of the Washington Post article about her (June 26, 2022 at 6:00 a.m. EDT) Chai T. Rex (talk) 15:13, 1 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
As noted above, the other references are lacking in reliability. The only other reference which can be argued contribute to slight significance are from the student newspaper, Western University's The Gazette. WP:BASIC states that "If the depth of coverage in any given source is not substantial, then multiple independent sources may be combined to demonstrate notability;", and although they might meet reliability, multiple articles from the same source would not count as "multiple independent sources". Hence, the WaPo article is the only reliable source (WP:RS) that gives significant coverage as per WP:N. An article with only one reliable source providing all significant coverage does not meat WP:GNG and WP:BASIC. PurpleTurdle (talk) 19:05, 1 July 2022 (UTC)PurpleTurdle (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]
Yes, but it doesn't say "if the depth of coverage in any given article is not substantial", it says "in any given source". Multiple articles by the same source don't count as multiple sources, sure, but it can shift the depth of coverage from that source from slight to repeated and more significant. Chai T. Rex (talk) 21:40, 1 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
So which multiple independent sources, meeting reliability and significance requirements, combine to demonstrate notability? Sources 2, 5, 8 are from arguably reliable Western University's The Gazette. Source 5 contains one sentence referencing the subject. Source 8 contains no mention of the subject besides a picture. There is no focus on the article subject at all. Sources 4 & 7 do not meet reliability requirements. Source 6 is of no notability at all, a local politician running for local office is not notable. Source 3 meets reliability, but only contains a single quote from the article's subject, it does not contribute to notability at all. It is the same with sources 9 & 10, with 9 containing no mention of the subject besides a reference to a tweet and 10 containing one sentence pertaining to the subject. Source 11 is a reference to Source 1. Again, only one source, Source 1 (WaPo) definitely meets both reliability and significance, as per WP:GNG. Source 2 can be argued on reliability and its contributions to notability. Which sources do you combine to reach notability? PurpleTurdle (talk) 03:08, 2 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete — No obvious indication of notability: low follower count, minimal coverage by third-party sources, and no real "claim to fame". As a politics streamer, Keffals falls under the notability guidelines for entertainers (WP:ENT), but she does not fulfill either of the two criteria listed. Much like what happened with the drafting process of the article for Vaush, significant work is needed to solidify Keffals' notability. However, unlike Vaush, Keffals does not have many significant acts to her name, nor a significant following. There are many other politics streamers who have a niche subject focus similar to Keffals' and a much larger following, yet they fail notability guidelines for the same reason. Yue🌙 06:52, 2 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep or Userfy. The discussion here has mentioned the Washington Post article, but I'd like to emphasize a few things about it. This is a major newspaper of a large nation writing about a foreigner who isn't a major political leader and putting that article on the front page of their 27 July 2022 print edition [1][2].
The struggle for transgender rights is a particularly hot topic right now, and I believe that the article was given such prominent placement because of that, as well as because, as far as transgender advocacy by transgender people goes, she's prominent in that sphere.
I don't believe she has much notability because of her actions considered without context. She's not anywhere near the top Twitch streamer. Her ratios by themselves are not newsworthy. And so on.
I believe that the notability of the fight for transgender rights is what significantly adds to her notability, as she is one of the leading individual advocates out of the marginalized people involved on one side of the issue.
This is about a struggle for and against the rights of a marginalized minority group, whose members will tend to be much less prominent because there aren't as many of them and because they're marginalized.
I don't think that it makes sense to say that the members of the marginalized group should have to meet contextless standards of notability, as that would mean that Wikipedia would give more prominence to the opponents to and allies of the marginalized community than the marginalized community members themselves, which is very likely to present a lopsided view of the issue.
I believe that the topic of transgender rights is suitably notable, and that the discussion should be about whether she is notable enough in that context, rather than notable enough without regard to that context. Chai T. Rex (talk) 19:56, 2 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I'd like to add a bit to that. The topic of transgender rights is notable enough, so Wikipedia should include, to attain a reasonable level of completeness, some prominent individual transgender advocates who are transgender themselves and what they've done to advocate for it. That's an important part of that topic. They shouldn't be excluded because they're not prominent in a contextless sense. Chai T. Rex (talk) 20:28, 2 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Wether or not someone or something gets an article on Wikipedia is determined by WP:N. This includes the WP:GNG, which must be met in order to consider a subject notable. This is determined by non-trivial secondary coverage by reliable sources. Inherited notability, the idea a subject must have an article because of something like a group they're apart of or their relation to a given matter, does not contribute to a subject's notability. Yes, the fight for trans rights is an important and notable one. But just because the article's subject is apart of this fight does not give notability. Again, notability is determined from coverage from reliable sources. It is great she's doing work for her community, but that by itself does not demonstrate notability. These guidelines for notability are not contextless, the "multiple, reliable, independent, non-trivial, published works" are the context.
More on inherent notability can be found on WP:INHERENT. PurpleTurdle (talk) 22:11, 2 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
That still doesn't address WP:NTEMP and WP:NSUSTAINED. Many protesters and activists in the civil rights era also had one-time interviews that appeared on the front page of a prominent newspaper for a given day. I also agree with PurpleTurdle - a person that is even slightly prominent in the notable trans right movement doesn't make them notable in of itself. JungleEntity (talk) 23:43, 2 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. It is quite close to the line, with one top quality source (The WP) and a set of lesser ones, but I think it falls on the right side of significant coverage. The coverage in The Gamer is substantial enough and it demonstrates that she is notable for more than one thing. This would be a "weak keep" !vote but I'm not keen on an SPA launching an AfD, particularly when the subject is an individual subject to sustained and coordinated bad faith attempts to remove her from multiple other platforms and then additional SPAs, some with transphobic vandalism in their edit history, turn up just to advocate for deletion. Of course, that doesn't negate the other people !voting delete in good faith but I think this AfD has become a trainwreck and the only sensible option is to keep the article, at least for now, and see where we are in a few months time. --DanielRigal (talk) 03:13, 3 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep she is clearly in the public interest to be documented here and will likely increase in political importance as time goes onImmanuelle 💗 (please tag me) 09:46, 3 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Internet-related deletion discussions. DanielRigal (talk) 09:51, 3 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Sexuality and gender-related deletion discussions. DanielRigal (talk) 09:51, 3 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep Seems notable and sourced to me, but a SPA launching an AfD is concerning and I agree completely with the rationale from DanielRigal — this is not an appropriate AfD and, frankly, I would suggest a checkuser should be performed on the nominating sock — OwenBlacker (he/him; Talk; please {{ping}} me in replies)
  • Keep. Passes GNG. Per others, the involvement of SPAs in this AfD is concerning. --Tagishsimon (talk) 12:03, 3 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep, the WP source puts them onto GNG for me. If consensus is ultimately delete, suggest userfy. Lajmmoore (talk) 13:25, 3 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. There are currently ten reliable sources cited in the page makes it notable and and sourced well enough to keep. I agree with other commenters that the involvement of SPAs in this is disturbing. I agree that a checkuser should be performed on the nominating sock as OwenBlacker points out. I also agree with what DanielRigal is saying, since the AfD is clearly a trainwreck and should be kept. I completely disagree with Yue, Tweedle, 173.70.44.9, AustralianFarmer, Stircla, JungleEntity, and the strange deletion reasoning by MerlinsSister. Historyday01 (talk) 13:54, 3 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: Should WP:LGBT be notified of this AfD? LightNightLights (talk) 14:15, 3 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    It is already on the list of Sexuality and gender-related deletion discussions but if you think that would help then please feel free. DanielRigal (talk) 14:31, 3 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Women-related deletion discussions. Beccaynr (talk) 14:44, 3 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Canada-related deletion discussions. Beccaynr (talk) 14:44, 3 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: Would just like to note the strange influx of comments above. Even if an account is an SPA, that does not discredit valid points brought up. Non-SPA users Alduin2000 and JungleEntity present very valid arguments about this article's apparent lack of notability due to not fully meeting WP:GNG, yet the users above give no substantial reasoning or even discuss source reliability, which has been the main discussion so far on this page. PurpleTurdle (talk) 23:54, 3 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    Also, speaking for myself, I would like to point to WP:NOTSPA and WP:FIRSTEDIT. I have IP edited before. Make of this what you will. PurpleTurdle (talk) 00:12, 4 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep, and I'd love to know 1. how the nominator figured out how to nominate an article for deletion in their first edit and 2. where all these "strong delete" votes are coming from. I wouldn't rule out that "PurpleTurdle" knows the answer to both of these questions. --VersaceSpace 🌃 01:37, 4 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    "PurpleTurdle" asserts WP:NOTSPA and WP:FIRSTEDIT. "PurpleTurdle" also wonders where all the WP:AGF went. PurpleTurdle (talk) 01:43, 4 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
AGF considerably strained by no less than 4 editors indistinguishable from SPAs, and an, on the face of it, transphobic IP.
  • https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/PurpleTurdle
  • https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Stircla
  • https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/AustralianFarmer
  • https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/MerlinsSister
AGF is not a licence to game the system. --Tagishsimon (talk) 03:21, 4 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I understand AGF is not a license to game the system. I have presented my reasoning for nominating this article for deletion and that is it. I could not care less wether or not I am deemed a SPA or associated with others. I am here to participate in discussion. PurpleTurdle (talk) 21:36, 4 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep per Chai T. Rex's source analysis. I think being the subject of a profile in The Washington Post goes a great deal to demonstrating notability. I also share the concerns of DanielRigal and many other editors about why a PROD followed by an AFD was the first edits made by the proposer. Given the harassment Keffals faces both on Twitch and Twitter, it is understandably suspicious. Sideswipe9th (talk) 01:58, 4 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: I understand the concerns of SPAs, but I really think we should concern this AfD only on the merits of the articles itself. If users are bringing up good points, then those should be judged on their own merit, regardless if the account looks like an SPA. Many point out that the Washington Post article suffices for notability. WP:BLP and WP:N disagree. I know [WP:IAR] and such, but these guidelines are in place for a reason. Only one reliable source that goes in-depth on the subject isn't enough for WP:BLP, especially one that was published less than a month ago. I still keep my delete vote, and if this article is deleted, I hope it goes back to the drafting stage, until WP:NSUSTAINED is established. Keffals may very well be notable, and other reliable sources may write full length articles about her in the future, but as of now, that doesn't seem to be the case. JungleEntity (talk) 02:16, 4 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. Meets WP:GNG due to: https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2022/06/26/keffals-trans-twitch-streaming-news/ SIGNIFICANT coverage combined with non significant coverage in other sources. WP:BASIC allows If the depth of coverage in any given source is not substantial, then multiple independent sources may be combined to demonstrate notability so I think one piece of significant coverage plus various less compelling ones added together are good. There is a source in The Gamer above, and there are lots of sources talking about her run for political office as a member of the communist party - i.e. she is notable for multiple things. So that's the technical/policy argument. And the simple, common sense, encyclopaedic argument is more like: she got profiled in the Washington Post? That's about as notable as anyone can get, why are we even discussing this? I fear sexism or transphobia is a factor here. I've not seen any AfDs about cis men who appeared on the front page of WP and ran for political office. 14:56, 4 July 2022 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by CT55555 (talk • contribs)
    Local politicians, especially those who ran locally and were not elected, do not guarantee notability, as per WP:POLITICIAN and as discussed in WP:Notability (politics). Her political career is not what she is known for; she is currently known for her trans activism, twitch streaming, and social media. Coverage of her political career may contribute to WP:BASIC, but only if those sources are reliable, independent of each other, and non-trivial, as discussed above. PurpleTurdle (talk) 21:49, 4 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    I have not said that she is notable as per WP:POLITICIAN. I have said I think she is notable as per WP:GNG, her political activities as just a small part of that. I think the coverage is in reliable sources, is non-trivial and I think that Washington Post and others are independent of her. I have considered your reply and I do not agree with it, I remain keep. All the best, CT55555 (talk) 21:59, 4 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: just found this article by CBC News about LondonFuse. Seems to suggest it is shutting down because it was refused grants because they refused to alter their political writing/reporting. Suggests to me that it can probably be trusted as a reliable local news source; CBC finding its shutting down important enough to cover also seems to suggest it was an important local news source. Might be relevant to assessing it as a source. Still not 100% sure if this is a good source or if it would provide enough significant coverage to push the page over to notability, but it would definitely make notability more plausible if it is a legit source. Alduin2000 (talk) 14:07, 5 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. I can really only echo CT55555's surprise. A two thousand word profile on the front page of the Washington Post, and we're not sure if she meets WP:GNG? It's pretty notable to be covered in such depth by a national newspaper. It's especially notable to be covered in such depth by a foreign national newspaper. I understand the WP:SUSTAINED argument, but I don't think that quite applies here: if the WashPo article was about a specific event, a particular one of her streams, or something like that, it would be correct to apply in this case. But the article is about her and her Twitch streaming in general - it's not a single event receiving disproportionate coverage in a way that throws WP:GNG out of wack. -- asilvering (talk) 01:01, 6 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete. Liz Read! Talk! 05:33, 5 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Sanjay R. Bhoosreddy[edit]

Sanjay R. Bhoosreddy (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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WP:AUTOBIO and WP:LIKERESUME to the -th degree. I am not well-versed in notability conventions for civil servants, but I suspect assistant to the Chief Secretary isn't a notable enough position to justify an article without accompanying significant coverage. – Ploni (talk) 05:16, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  • Delete. For all his achievements, it is likely the subject is not notable in WP terms, but even if he is, this is an over-detailed CV, not a Wikipedia article, and would have to be rewritten from scratch. There's not a single usable sentence in the current article. Elemimele (talk) 05:55, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete. Terrible article, not for Wikipedia. Fad Ariff (talk) 10:34, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Speedy delete: as unambiguous advertising under WP:G11DaxServer (t · m · c) 12:20, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was keep. plicit 12:45, 5 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Shabana Kausar[edit]

Shabana Kausar (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Subject fails WP:SPORTCRIT and WP:GNG due to lack of significant coverage. A search per WP:BEFORE did not turn up any significant coverage. Although the previous AfD was recent, the article should be reevaluated because it quite clearly fails WP:NSPORT which requires a minimum of one SIGCOV source to be provided. –dlthewave 04:29, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

But NCRIC doesn't presume notability. Significant coverage must be shown to exist. –dlthewave 04:54, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@StAnselm: NCRIC isn't the guideline; NSPORT is. Further, as dlthewave points out, it only suggests that significant coverage is likely to exist, and doesn't presume notability - that coverage has to be identified to show notability. BilledMammal (talk) 05:16, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
No, WP:NCRIC is the guideline. You might be getting it mixed up with WP:CRIN. StAnselm (talk) 05:47, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
NCRIC is part of WP:NSPORT; it is part of a guideline, but isn't a guideline by itself. That means that even if NCRIC did presume notability, for the presumption to be granted the topic would need to meet the broader requirements of NSPORT, which include WP:SPORTCRIT #5. BilledMammal (talk) 06:13, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete. NSPORT is the guideline, not NCRIC, and an athlete cannot pass NSPORT without at least one SIGCOV being provided. Further, NSPORT doesn't presume notability, it just suggests that coverage is likely to exist, and in this case as with the other four articles previously kept on the grounds of NCRIC it appears that no coverage exists. BilledMammal (talk) 05:16, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • At the previous AfD for this person which was closed on 1 June as no consensus I wrote:
  • Probably keep - the arguments that have been made about a reasonable assumption that sources might exist is a fair one here I think - one appearance in a very minor match and I might suggest otherwise, but three matches against NZ and Australia means I tend to think it's reasonable, even if the team she played in was incredibly weak in comparison. Online sources will be problematic, and the gender bias in cricket sources of any kind at the time she played, especially those from south Asia, means that I have some doubts about proper in depth coverage - there have been cases in the past where we've struggled to find anything at all. In that case we would obviously, and I do mean really obviously, be looking at a redirect to an article such as List of Pakistan women ODI cricketers, if necessary, really, really obviously again, via a dab page if absolutely required - or whenever it's required. There are so many arguments in favour of this approach as opposed to deletion and I do, I'm afraid, struggle to understand the delete votes here.
My view has not changed significantly, although I should add that this is under WP:ATD and that we should probably merge a short note to the redirected page if that option is chosen. Blue Square Thing (talk) 09:46, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The issue with the arguments that there is a reasonable assumption that sources might exist is that it has been rejected by broader consensus, which says that sports biographies must have at least one source containing WP:SIGCOV to be kept, and thus per WP:CONLEVEL the argument that there must be sources is not appropriate unless you can find at least that one source. A redirect is not appropriate per WP:R#DELETE #1 as there are other Shabana Kausar's mentioned, and a dab page is not appropriate per WP:NOTDIRECTORY, which states Disambiguation pages (such as John Smith) are not intended to be complete listings of every person named John Smith—just the notable ones. BilledMammal (talk) 12:00, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep per the opening paragraph of WP:NSPORT - "This guideline is used to help evaluate whether or not a sports person or sports league/organization (amateur or professional) is likely to meet the general notability guideline, and thus merit an article in Wikipedia. The article should provide reliable sources showing that the subject meets the general notability guideline or (my emp.) the sport specific criteria set forth below", and therefore meets WP:NCRIC. As BST has mentioned, above, sources are likely to exist, albeit hard to find. At worst, a simple redirect to the List of Pakistan women ODI cricketers page. I don't really understand the desire to force a deletion over a redirect either. Lugnuts Fire Walk with Me 18:18, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep Per my comments in the previous AfD. At worst should be redirected to List of Pakistan women ODI cricketers as a suitable WP:ATD. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 19:19, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep per previous AFD, repeatedly relisting until it gets deleted is inappropriate. Stifle (talk) 08:09, 30 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep meets WP:GNG as international cricketers almost always meet WP:GNG. The fact that she has been described as "young medium pacer Shabana Kausar looking a bowler of some promise" by a New Zealand newspaper, The Timaru Herald (Sth Canty XI outshine Pakistan) and that she was part of the inaugral ODI team (tough to be a woman cricketer and as a woman myself I know that). If foreign newspaper is writing about her then surely there would be some articles about her in local language, but (shame) that they haven't been digitalized yet. 2407:7000:9D08:BE00:3590:5467:F7A1:95AE (talk) 03:44, 1 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was keep. plicit 12:46, 5 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Subroto Das[edit]

Subroto Das (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Subject fails WP:SPORTCRIT and WP:GNG due to lack of significant coverage. A search per WP:BEFORE did not turn up any significant coverage. Although the previous AfD was recent, the article should be reevaluated because it quite clearly fails WP:NSPORT which requires a minimum of one SIGCOV source to be provided. –dlthewave 04:28, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  • Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Cricket and India. –dlthewave 04:28, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete. NSPORT is the guideline, not NCRIC, and an athlete cannot pass NSPORT without at least one SIGCOV being provided. Further, NSPORT doesn't presume notability, it just suggests that coverage is likely to exist, and in this case as with the other four articles previously kept on the grounds of NCRIC it appears that no coverage exists. BilledMammal (talk) 05:14, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep per StickyWicket in the last AfD. StAnselm (talk) 06:08, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • OK, so moving past the fact the previous AfD was closed as keep with the specific rationale that the benefit of the doubt be applied to begin with, we then have competing guidelines and some policies to consider.
Yes, the article in the condiition that it's in right now lacks sourcing. That's because those sources that are very likely to exist are inaccessible to someone such as myself - English speaking, sat in front of a computer and not on the sub-continent. Does this mean that they don't exist? No, and although it's not absolutely certain that there do exist reasonable levels of sourcing, I'd suggest very strongly indeed that there are likely to be sources out there, but the majority are very likely indeed to not be available in digitised archives.
So, what do we do about this brown person from a non-anglophone country who did their thing before the internet and globalised news were a thing? Do we take a fundamentalist line and say, no, we absolutely must delete the article? Or do we suggest that actually the article existing is not an affront to any reasonable standard of notability in a major sport in the country he comes from, and do we suggest that the benefit of the doubt would be better applied? What is Wikipedia for? Are we reinforcing systematic biases against brown people and non-anglophone countries, or are we pushing the bounds of what an encyclopaedia is? Does our policy (not guideline) of WP:NOTPAPER not apply here, to an extent? Or WP:5P1 and WP:5P5? WP:NOTDIRECTORY does not apply - there is context, albeit not very much.
So, how do we approach this? I am almost certain that sources do exist and that it is within the boundaries of acceptability to apply the benefit of the doubt to articles such as this. On those grounds I can see a case for keeping the article. What I can't see is any ground whatsoever for deleting it - a clear and obvious WP:ATD applies - we can merge and redirect, with a note added to the entry, to List of Bihar cricketers. Personally I think that there is a stronger argument for keeping - the chap played the major sport in his country over a period of more than 10 years for a top-level team. I can understand why this might frustrate people, but I'd rather support the basic premise and policy that this is not a paper encyclopaedia and seek to expand the boundaries if what we can include. Blue Square Thing (talk) 07:08, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The issue with your argument for keeping is that the community decided to require that all sports biographies include at least one example of WP:SIGCOV. If you were able to find that one example your argument might be appropriate in the short term, but given its absence your argument must be rejected per WP:CONLEVEL. As for your argument of a redirect, there issue is that he also played for East Zone; we cannot assume which article readers will be searching for, and thus a redirect is not appropriate per WP:R#DELETE #1. BilledMammal (talk) 11:45, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep... and I quote from before "This player has played nearly 50 first-class matches, so the chances of there being no coverage in local non-English sources is virtually nil. As a rule of thumb, the more matches someone plays, the more coverage that is likely to exist." We are not Anglopedia and cricket is played in countries where coverage is not yet widely digitalised. That many appearances almost certainly guarantees written press coverage, though sadly, Bihar is a little too far from rural Hampshire for me to get to have a look. The community, should be defined as "those who contribute zero article creation, and spend their time obsessing over policy which nobody in the real world cares about..." and obsessing in the wrong areas, hence we have Pronunciation of GIF as a main page FA, which is the most unencyclopedic gibberish ever. StickyWicket (talk) 15:14, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • I find it a bit ridiculous how dlthewave is going through recent "keep" closures he does not like and is immediately re-nominating the articles for deletion! I do not see why this should be allowed, for, if it was the other way around (article is closed as "delete," someone recreates it), that would not be allowed. BeanieFan11 (talk) 15:17, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep per all the above comments and per the opening paragraph of WP:NSPORT - "This guideline is used to help evaluate whether or not a sports person or sports league/organization (amateur or professional) is likely to meet the general notability guideline, and thus merit an article in Wikipedia. The article should provide reliable sources showing that the subject meets the general notability guideline or (my emp.) the sport specific criteria set forth below", and therefore meets WP:NCRIC. At worst, and per the 1st AfD, redirect to List of Bihar cricketers, per WP:ATD, etc. Lugnuts Fire Walk with Me 18:22, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak keep My comments remain the same as the previous AfD a short-while ago. The subject highly likely has non-English language or offline sourcing on him to that would pass GNG. There is a redirect if needed as BST suggests, but the fact that this article is at AfD again after such a short period is at best disappointing. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 19:17, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was keep. plicit 12:46, 5 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Mamata Kanojia[edit]

Mamata Kanojia (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Subject fails WP:SPORTCRIT and WP:GNG due to lack of significant coverage. A search per WP:BEFORE did not turn up any significant coverage. Although the previous AfD was recent, the article should be reevaluated because it quite clearly fails WP:NSPORT which requires a minimum of one SIGCOV source to be provided. –dlthewave 04:27, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  • Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Women and Cricket. –dlthewave 04:27, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete. NSPORT is the guideline, not NCRIC, and an athlete cannot pass NSPORT without at least one SIGCOV being provided. Further, NSPORT doesn't presume notability, it just suggests that coverage is likely to exist, and in this case as with the other four articles previously kept on the grounds of NCRIC it appears that no coverage exists. BilledMammal (talk) 05:13, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep per User:Blue Square Thing in the last AfD. StAnselm (talk) 06:11, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • At the previous AfD, which was closed on 1 June as a SNOW keep, I wrote:
  • It's not unreasonable to assume that there will be non-English language coverage some of which is unlikely to be accessible given the period in which Kanojia played for India - that tricky period before proper web coverage and with little chance of being able to access archives. As a result I'm happy to keep here - as others have noted, she passes NCRIC in both its former and present forms and has had a very long domestic career: last played in 2020/21 and has played in more than 200 top-level domestic matches. CricketArchive has a photo of her. It doesn't have one of most male international cricketers. That confirms my keep vote.
My opinion has not changed significantly since then and I am still unable to access newspaper sources from India for the period in question, but consider the likelihood that coverage will be available to be very high indeed. At the very worse there are clear WP:ATD available, although I rather think that WP:NOTPAPER also has some application here - if this person were male we'd have a tonne or easy to access coverage; because she's female and from a non-anglophone part of the world it's significantly harder to access sources but her notability as a cricketer is not really in question. Blue Square Thing (talk) 09:53, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
e2a: There appear to be a lot of passing references (at least - I can't access full versions) in Wisden India from at least 2013 (first time it was published) to 2020. Under Mamatha Kanojia - which is the spelling both CricInfo and CricketArchive now seem to use. Blue Square Thing (talk) 10:00, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep it's under a month since the last AFD, and the nominator seems to have made 0 attempt to look for non-English sources. WP:NONENG makes it clear that non-English sources are fine, and given that this player has represented their country, it's likely non-English sources exist in one of the native languages of India. Repeatedly re-nominating something because you don't like the previous outcome is disruptive, and this AFD so soon after the last one seems wholly disruptive and pointy to me. Joseph2302 (talk) 13:27, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. Another curious re-nom of a recently kept AfD. As an international cricketer from India, the chances of sources being in published press are high. And as an international cricketer for a full member country, her notability is not in any doubt. To echo Joseph2302, this is beginning to border on WP:DISRUPTIVE and WP:POINT. StickyWicket (talk) 15:54, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Note that the subject's name has been transliterated as Mamata Kanojia, Mamtha Kanojia, Mamatha Kanojia, and Mamta Kanojia. It will be worthwhile to search for those variants in Indian and cricket media archives, esp from 2003 and 2012 when she had her national team debut and comeback respectively. Abecedare (talk) 16:24, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep per the opening paragraph of WP:NSPORT - "This guideline is used to help evaluate whether or not a sports person or sports league/organization (amateur or professional) is likely to meet the general notability guideline, and thus merit an article in Wikipedia. The article should provide reliable sources showing that the subject meets the general notability guideline or (my emp.) the sport specific criteria set forth below", and therefore meets WP:NCRIC. Lugnuts Fire Walk with Me 18:24, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep Per my comments in the previous AfD, and Joseph2302 and BST's well articulated comments in this one. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 19:15, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. Because the arguments made at the AfD from one month ago remain accurate. Extra because it was a WP:SNOW keep. Because, influenced by WP:FAIT I don't think editors should just do another AfD quickly after one closes just because they don't like the result, there needs to be a compelling reason to re-argue it and I don't see one. CT55555 (talk) 01:07, 29 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete. Liz Read! Talk! 03:20, 5 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Jedidiah McCloud[edit]

Jedidiah McCloud (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Fails WP:GNG; lack of WP:SIGCOV from reliable sources . JTtheOG (talk) 05:02, 21 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  • Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople, Football, and United States of America. JTtheOG (talk) 05:02, 21 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. GiantSnowman 19:30, 22 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found please ping me. GiantSnowman 19:43, 22 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete The article does not have sufficient sourcing of the type to meet GNG.John Pack Lambert (talk) 20:04, 22 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Draftify All recently created articles with insufficient referencing as their only issue should be draftified, not deleted. That is what the draftspace is for. UnitedStatesian (talk) 15:29, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete. I cannot find significant coverage of this individual by multiple independent RS, so this individual fails WP:NBASIC and WP:GNG. I have no objection to redirecting his page to the roster section of Chicago Fire FC II, but I have some questions about whether or not that specific sporting team is notable. — Ⓜ️hawk10 (talk) 16:53, 27 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting to consider the option of draftifying or redirection
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 04:22, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  • Delete All articles with insufficient referencing and evidence of potential expansion should be deleted, not draftified. That is not what the draftspace is for. Avilich (talk) 01:23, 5 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was redirect to Hispanic and Latino communities in Metro Atlanta. Liz Read! Talk! 03:19, 5 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Mexicans in Atlanta[edit]

Mexicans in Atlanta (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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This paragraph can be redirected to Atlanta or Demographics of Atlanta ( Hispanic and Latino Communities in Atlanta already redirects there) there is room for the paragraph I redirected this article and an editor removed the redirect. Bruxton (talk) 00:04, 21 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Redirect to Hispanic_and_Latino_communities_in_Metro_Atlanta or merge to Demographics of Atlanta?
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Star Mississippi 03:05, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was Move to Draft namespace. TigerShark (talk) 23:18, 5 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

GAN Cube[edit]

GAN Cube (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Previously moved to draft. Returned to main space without any sources. Only source I can find is a passing mention in Guardian, which says what sponsored cube the interview subject used. Fails WP:GNG and WP:NCORP and is basically a product catalog. Slywriter (talk) 03:44, 13 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  • Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Toys-related deletion discussions. Slywriter (talk) 03:44, 13 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete – although well known among cube enthusiasts, doesn't nearly pass NCORP. The article also smells of an advertisement. Ovinus (talk) 05:21, 13 June 2022 (UTC) Draftify per below arguments and editor request; @RoakleyTheBirb: thanks for taking the time to work on it. Ovinus (talk) 22:40, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep - This article is not for advertisement purposes, and I intend on putting more information in. I am doing it ‘bit by bit’ , with the help of other people. Could an alternative solution be moving back to Draft, until I add more Information? Again no advertisement was intended, and I am trying to add more to the article, but have just been busy with exams and that. The reason why I moved it from draft is because I thought there was enough Information, but didn’t think of sources. So I am hoping that we can move it back to Drafts and I can continue working on it, and add sources. Thanks! RoakleyTheBirb (talk) 07:56, 13 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Redirect to speed cubing, although I'm still not sure what that is. Oaktree b (talk) 16:54, 13 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    Speedcubing? From what I can see, it's solving Rubik's cubes and other similar "cubes" as fast as possible. Alpha Piscis Austrini (talk) 15:23, 14 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Draftify as WP:ATD and per request by RoakleyTheBirb above. As it is there aren't enough references to meet WP:NCORP criteria for establishing notability. HighKing++ 14:13, 16 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Delete, redirect or draftify? Right now, there is no consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 03:17, 20 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  • Second !vote Hi RoakleyTheBirb you've currently !voted twice at this AfD. You should strike like this one of your !votes so that it is clear to the closer what your intentions are. HighKing++ 13:14, 27 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: per first relist
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, 78.26 (spin me / revolutions) 02:41, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was no consensus. With no one arguing for deletion, whether and where to merge can be decided editorially. Star Mississippi 01:37, 6 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Pigasus (literature)[edit]

Pigasus (literature) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Looks to be an WP:OR combination of this word used a few different times. Each time there are only trivial mentions, which isn't enough for WP:SIGCOV to meet the WP:GNG. Jontesta (talk) 01:56, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep as per consensus. If there is WP:OR it can be handled without deleting as WP:DINC. (non-admin closure) Kj cheetham (talk) 21:36, 5 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Dust (His Dark Materials)[edit]

All prior XfDs for this page:


Dust (His Dark Materials) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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No reliable independent sources to establish notability for this, as per WP:SIGCOV. Article is entirely WP:OR. Jontesta (talk) 01:49, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment The Guardian article is wholly on the book's release (which, mind, is notable and merits its own article). The article is mostly OR. JJLiu112 (talk) 07:49, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@JJLiu112: Three-and-a-half of the short paragraphs the The Guardian article consists of are dedicated to the concept of Dust, rather than The Book of Dust specifically. Daranios (talk) 08:26, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • This is a 2nd AfD nomination for this article – the first one was lumped together here: Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Races_and_creatures_in_His_Dark_Materials I'm guessing that not a lot of work went into fixing the article after it was kept the last time, as there certainly is a large body of secondary source material on the topic. Possibly not enough awareness/attention from those editors with sufficient background in citing literary analysis appropriately. (Not sure if I can help but will take a look.) This is a good example of the need for follow-up clean-up AFTER an article is "kept" through the AfD process. Otherwise we waste cycles nominating and discussing the same articles over and over again.) Cielquiparle (talk) 08:39, 29 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • “ This is a complex discussion, to the point that some people have suggested that it should be closed as WP:TRAINWRECK.” - lot going on there to have expectations coming out of it TBH. Artw (talk) 13:57, 29 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    What I meant was that there probably is a broader community of editors who don't regularly follow AfDs, who would have happily helped to improve the page after it was kept, had they known that it had come under so much scrutiny. Cielquiparle (talk) 18:22, 29 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep on the basis that reliable independent sources do exist, as established in the previous AfD discussion and above, some of which has been added to the article now. Per the article Talk page, past editors have worked on trying to address the OR issues. Further work can and should be done to fix and improve this, but this alone is not grounds for deletion. Cielquiparle (talk) 13:38, 29 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep have added a couple of refs and mentioned the TV show, which largely seems to treat things the same - we should probably make a note of any differences if they come up. Artw (talk) 14:20, 29 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was keep. Liz Read! Talk! 03:13, 5 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Aarght Records[edit]

Aarght Records (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Not notable Australian local specialist punk record label, now defunct. Fails WP:GNG; WP:ORG. Alexandermcnabb (talk) 13:11, 20 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  • Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Music, Business, and Australia. Alexandermcnabb (talk) 13:11, 20 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Companies-related deletion discussions. Spiderone(Talk to Spider) 18:39, 20 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete could not find indepth coverage to meet WP:GNG. LibStar (talk) 00:51, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak Keep The Vice article is half ok, the other half is an interview. I also found This.Zeddedm (talk) 02:55, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep The coverage's enough to scrape by along with enough artists to suggest importance via WP:MUSIC. Chubbles (talk) 03:25, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep Based on the Vice article mentioned and the label's roster. The label's releases get mentioned in Maximum Rocknroll a lot too. Jimmyjrg (talk) 23:39, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep based on 4meter4's finding of reference in specialist encyclopedia. Delete This is a company therefore the appropriate guideline is WP:NCORP rather than NMUSIC which only applies to artists, bands, albums, and songs. WP:NCORP requires multiple sources (at least two) of deep or significant coverage with in-depth information *on the company* and (this bit is important!) containing "Independent Content". "Independent content", in order to count towards establishing notability, must include original and independent opinion, analysis, investigation, and fact checking that are clearly attributable to a source unaffiliated to the subject. This is usually the criteria where most references fail. References cannot rely *only* on information provided by the company, quotations, press releases, announcements, interviews, etc - these references fail ORGIND.
    • This from somethingyousaid.com arguably fails as a reliable source as blogs are considered self-published. Additionally, it is a transcript of an interview with no "Independent Content", fails ORGIND
    • This from Vice Media also appears to be based on an interview and information provided to the journalist and is focused on Rich Stanley rather than the topic company. For me it does not contain enough in-depth information on the company nor does it contain sufficient opinion/analysis/investigation/etc that is clearly attributable to a source unaffiliated with the company.
    • This, this and this either contain information about an album or information about a gig with no in-depth information on the company, fails CORPDEPTH
    • This from Beat doesn't even mention the company and has no information about the company, fails CORPDEPTH
    • This next from Beat mentioned by Zeddedm above has two mentions-in-passing of the company and provides information about the topic company's annual music show. Fails CORPDEPTH
We need to see a reference where the journalist provides their own "Independent Content" about the company and it needs to be in-depth. Nothing so far meets NCORP criteria. HighKing++ 13:37, 27 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. Passes WP:SIGCOV. In addition to the significant coverage in Vice Media and Beat, there is significant coverage of Aarght Records in Ian McFarlane (2017). "Aarght Records". The Encyclopedia of Australian Rock and Pop, Second Edition. Third Stone Press. ISBN 9780995385603.. If a specialist encyclopedia is covering this topic, we should too per WP:5P1.4meter4 (talk) 22:06, 27 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, North America1000 01:32, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment never seen a better illustration for why WP:CORP is not the right yardstick for labels. 4meter4's discovery of an encyclopedia article about this label indicates that we, an encyclopedia, should have an article about it. Chubbles (talk) 05:27, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    • I totally agree although I'm also not sure what notability criteria you'd want to include for labels. HighKing++ 11:03, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Woah there, The ISBN of The Encyclopedia of Australian Rock and Pop Edition 2 is actually 978-0995385603 - and it's a 544-page book about the Australian music scene (a relatively esoteric one, at that) that's been titled as such - it's a naming conceit, not Britannica or anything. Just to get the 'record' straight... Best Alexandermcnabb (talk) 11:21, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
That’s not an accurate assessment. You are correct that it isn’t Britannica (which is a general encyclopedia). However, it is an academic reference work that is structured, researched, and referenced in the way that specialized encyclopedias are structured (and by a notable academic in the field; we even have a wiki page Encyclopedia of Australian Rock and Pop on this work), . In fact, that’s what it is, a specialized encyclopedia. WP:5P1 states, “ Wikipedia combines many features of general and specialized encyclopedias.” Best.4meter4 (talk) 20:37, 29 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was merge to Journey to the West. Merge any relevant content, then delete. Liz Read! Talk! 03:12, 5 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Liusha River (fictional river)[edit]

Liusha River (fictional river) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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This article is a WP:COATRACK of trivial WP:PLOT details, with no significant coverage in reliable third party sources. The only coverage provides trivial mentions, and not WP:SIGCOV as required by the WP:GNG. Brought this one to PROD and was turned down, so I am raising it for discussion here. Jontesta (talk) 01:18, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was merge to Journey to the West. Merge any relevant content and then delete. Liz Read! Talk! 03:11, 5 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Tongtian River (fictional river)[edit]

Tongtian River (fictional river) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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This article is a WP:COATRACK of trivial WP:PLOT details, with no significant coverage in reliable third party sources. The only coverage provides trivial mentions, and not WP:SIGCOV as required by the WP:GNG. Brought this one to PROD and was turned down, so I am raising it for discussion here. Jontesta (talk) 01:18, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was soft delete. Based on minimal participation, this uncontroversial nomination is treated as an expired PROD (a.k.a. "soft deletion"). Editors can request the article's undeletion. Liz Read! Talk! 03:07, 5 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Jennifer Bliman[edit]

Jennifer Bliman (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Minor local coverage, but likely not enough to meet WP:GNG. – Ploni (talk) 00:52, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  • Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Bands and musicians and California. Ploni (talk) 00:52, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete local coverage of the type we see here is not enough to show that a musician is notable.John Pack Lambert (talk) 13:52, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    Jennifer is also a professional actress, member of SAG-AFTRA, has appeared in multiple national commercials and also on various television shows (AP Bio, The Goldbergs, Modern Family, Perry Mason) as well as the movie Fame. She also has over 10K followers on Instagram. We'll be updating her page shortly to reflect this. WillCrowder42 (talk) 19:27, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    Who is the We in We'll be updating her page shortly? Are you a representatives or agent editing on behalf of Bliman? If so, please refer to WP:UPE and declare a conflict of interest. Vexations (talk) 14:39, 29 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    My apologies, I should have noted up front: I'm her husband. I suspect that gives me a different type of conflict of interest, albeit not that of a paid editor. I'm still learning this process, having only dived in due to the deletion nomination. I'm not generally a Wikipedia editor. If I have broken a rule of the process, I sincerely apologize. I'm just trying to buy a little time to get her page updated, a process which we're both still learning. Thank you. WillCrowder42 (talk) 14:54, 29 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Retain Page is out of date but will be updated shortly to reflect her increased notability WillCrowder42 (talk)
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