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The result was soft delete. WP:REFUND applies. King of ♠ 02:08, 27 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

CheckUp & Choices[edit]

CheckUp & Choices (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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Promotional article that fails WP:NORG. A search turns out a couple of PR news and a few passing mentions. Doesn't satisfy WP:RS and lacks WP:SIGCOV. Lapablo (talk) 23:50, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was soft delete. WP:REFUND applies. King of ♠ 02:07, 27 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

William Way LGBT Community Center[edit]

William Way LGBT Community Center (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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Nonnotable community center Staszek Lem (talk) 23:40, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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  • Delete - per nom - fails GNG. Only local and cursory coverage. None of those sources do it for me; merely mentioning a location in a source does not establish notability ‡ Єl Cid of ᐺalencia ᐐT₳LKᐬ 12:56, 20 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete. King of ♠ 02:06, 27 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Paula Goldman[edit]

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Appears to fail WP:GNG. Wikipedia cannot include every single corporate employee. — Stevey7788 (talk) 23:37, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

del - no evidence of notability. Staszek Lem (talk) 23:47, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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  • Delete And the chief something officers just keep multiplying.John Pack Lambert (talk) 03:57, 20 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete Fails GNG pretty miserably. Best, GPL93 (talk) 21:06, 20 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete No indication of notability and no in depth independent coverage by reliable sources to meet WP:GNG. --Crystallizedcarbon (talk) 10:41, 26 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete all has been stated above Lubbad85 (talk) 00:24, 27 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete This article is nothing Lubbad85 (talk) 01:51, 27 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was soft delete. WP:REFUND applies. King of ♠ 02:05, 27 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Manitoba China Times[edit]

Manitoba China Times (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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Unsourced since 2006. Fails WP:GNG. The best source I could find was this entry in a database of minority media, but I couldn't find any other usable sources. – Teratix ₵ 23:35, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. King of ♠ 02:05, 27 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

MIMAL[edit]

MIMAL (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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I can't find any reliable source that actually uses this term. Delete as per WP:V and WP:NOTNEO Rusf10 (talk) 23:03, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The links in the article seem reliable enough to pass muster. the folklore it originates in is established, and if the acronym is a learning device used in current education, that furthers the case. Keep, barring further developments. Scriblerian1 (talk) 23:37, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The two sources are acronymfinder.com and a blog. How are those acceptable sources?--Rusf10 (talk) 15:56, 20 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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  • del nn piece of folklore, among zillions of smarticisms in popculture. Staszek Lem (talk) 23:52, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak Keep – Though not covered by the New York Times there is enough secondary coverage to warrant a spot here at Wikipedia. However, would change the piece’s name to “MAMIL” (geographical acronym) in that just the Acronym “MAMIL” (Middle aged man in Lycra) is gaining quite a bit of attention in the cycling world and can see an article here in a very short time.ShoesssS Talk 15:11, 20 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
What sources cover this? Also, there's already a mamil article, it has nothing to do with this.--Rusf10 (talk) 15:54, 20 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Comment – My fault “Fat Finger”/typo……again apologies on MAMIL versus MIMAL…with regards to references a Google search does give a number of secondary sources, quality ahhhhh. That is way a Weak Keep. Thanks. ShoesssS Talk 18:50, 20 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete. Poorly sourced cruft. --Elkman (Elkspeak) 18:13, 20 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete Neologism; sources are not reliable. While not necessarily dispositive in and of itself, I will observe that having lived in the area for many years and spending a good deal of time studying the geography of Mississippi River basin, I have never encountered the term. UninvitedCompany 22:47, 20 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete. King of ♠ 02:03, 27 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Hoffman L. Fuller[edit]

Hoffman L. Fuller (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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Fails WP:NPOL. Mayor of a small town. ...William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 22:19, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was no consensus. King of ♠ 02:03, 27 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

All-American Boys Chorus[edit]

All-American Boys Chorus (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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This article has been around for eight years, yet in that time nobody has managed to provide any independent references. — RHaworth (talk · contribs) 21:46, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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  • keep . WP:DILIGENCE. Satisfies WP:GNG, especially in view of multiple sexual abuse scandals eg [1], although current article is an advert. Staszek Lem (talk) 00:32, 20 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete. While there is a discography, I'm not convinced that we've cleared the notability hurdle of significant discussion of the chorus. Sexual abuse scandals wouldn't give the group notability unless they were so widespread as to be an organizational issue (q.v. Penn State). I'm like RHaworth. The article has had time to be improved, but it keeps turning into puffery without independent sources. —C.Fred (talk) 00:42, 20 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • A single scandal - shit happens, but a series of scandals is definitely an issue. Unfortunately a chorus boy, just as a cabin boy, is a well-known prey and "not news". In any case, sources are required, and I say, they do exist. AfD is not a cleanup. Once multiple independent sources are found, we are keepers. Staszek Lem (talk) 01:38, 20 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Speedy Keep The article has been unsourced for 8 years, yet no editor chose to add reflist so they could be added. That, and in about ten minutes I found half a dozen sources and expanded the article about a third in size. Was Wikipedia's Deletion Policy #7 followed? In my opinion... no. Markvs88 (talk) 01:36, 20 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep - The new references help establish notability. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 11:59, 22 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete. King of ♠ 02:01, 27 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Julio Roberto Peña[edit]

Julio Roberto Peña (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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Filmmaker with questionable notability. I can't find anything he has done on here and I have not found that much about him outside of Wikipedia mirror sites. Wgolf (talk) 21:32, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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  • Delete Wikipedia is not supposed to be an IMDb mirror.John Pack Lambert (talk) 03:45, 20 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete: fails WP:GNG and WP:CREATIVE. I've altered the article to note that he died in 2017, so this is no longer a BLP. The fact is that Mr. Peña only worked on three full-length films, Raíces de Piedra (1961), Sangre en los Jazmines (1974) and Mientras Arde el Fuego (1979) – everything else were short films or documentaries. That's not to dismiss him, but it means there is little in the way of in-depth sources about a person with such little output. The most detailed biography is on the website of Colombia's national film institute [2] but this probably doesn't constitute a reliable independent source. Most other sources are just passing mentions, and mostly regarding Raíces de Piedra [3], [4], [5] – it seems to me that it would be more worthwhile creating an article for the film than to keep this biography, which it appears will never be more than a very brief stub. The film, on the other hand, has more potential reliable sources, and is also notable for being banned by the military government of the time. Richard3120 (talk) 14:47, 20 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete. King of ♠ 02:01, 27 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Zombies Ate My Girlfriend[edit]

Zombies Ate My Girlfriend (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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South African metal band. Fails WP:GNG with very minor coverage in non-WP:RS sources (e.g. blogs/fansites). Fail WP:BAND with no songs nationally charting, no major awards (they have won minor awards at metal festivals, but these were not notable awards), their record label is a small non-notable/niche SA label, and no major tours/coverage. No entry in AllMusic or Sputnik Musik. Feels like their WP article is their most notable RS; it should be the other way around. Britishfinance (talk) 21:01, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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  • Note - This article was PROD'ded some time ago but the PROD was removed after a few sources were added. ---DOOMSDAYER520 (Talk|Contribs) 14:21, 20 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete - Their works have been reviewed several times by a site called Angry Metal Guy, as seen in the article's existing citations, but that may or may not be significant and reliable, and either way this is practically the only publication that has noticed them. Otherwise they can only be found in brief directory entries and occasionally mentioned as merely being present at a festival. ---DOOMSDAYER520 (Talk|Contribs) 14:25, 20 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Angry Metal Guy's "About" page self-identifies as a blog (despite have a so-called "staff" of reviewers.) I don't think it's an RS. ShelbyMarion (talk) 17:00, 20 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete as WP:TOOSOON as they do not seem to have any substantial coverage in reliable sources and no major claims of significance. They may be notable in the future but not at present unfortunately, Atlantic306 (talk) 21:39, 20 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete - Fails WP:BAND. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 13:21, 22 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was Keep per WP:SNOW. (non-admin closure) Crystallizedcarbon (talk) 11:03, 26 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Quentin Lacour[edit]

Quentin Lacour (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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Article about footballer who made 2 appearances in the fully-pro French second division several years ago. The online coverage of this player is routine (e.g., match reports, transfer announcements, or statistical database entries) except for a few blog posts and a Le Parisien article covering Villefranche's amazing run in the Coupe de France this year (but these articles'/posts' only reference to Lacour is a very brief interview on how he exchanged shirts with Marquinhos and a very impressive selfie taken with Mbappe). There is nothing that suggests this coverage comes close to satisfying WP:GNG. Prior consensus (e.g., Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Phakamani Mngadi) is that a nominal amount of play in a fully-pro league doesn't meet WP:NFOOTBALL when an article comprehensively fails WP:GNG - as is the case here. Jogurney (talk) 20:33, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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  • Keep coverage, including [6] (assumedly, this was linked to by a shorter article which covered him), [7] passes WP:GNG. Also some minor references can be added to the article such as [8], [9], [10], [11]. Also technically passes WP:NFOOTY. SportingFlyer T·C 00:09, 20 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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  • Keep - passes WP:GNG and WP:NFOOTBALL. GiantSnowman 08:56, 20 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep passes WP:NFOOTBALL.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 17:39, 21 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete – If you count the 3 Feb 2019 Le Progres article SF linked to (first link) as significant coverage, that's it, that's the only one. The others are either a couple-sentence mentions, or an interview (primary source). Without significant coverage in multiple independent secondary sources, GNG isn't met, and 2 appearances is just a nominal NFOOTY pass. Levivich 06:33, 24 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep this passes GNG with sources provided and meets the agreed football notability consensus per professional league. Borgarde (talk) 11:45, 25 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was keep. Regardless of the significance of the Miss Hungary pageant, WP:GNG appears to be met. King of ♠ 02:01, 27 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Csilla Molnár[edit]

Csilla Molnár (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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This very odd article relies on a primary source... the subject’s website... and an obituary which confirms “the Miss Hungary competition is not connected with the Miss Universe pageant or any other international contest.” So she didn’t meet notability for pageant winners anyway. “Model commits suicide” isn’t notability. Trillfendi (talk) 20:17, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

  • Delete. I can't find any sources outside those used. Sbalfour (talk) 20:34, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete per nomination. Mccapra (talk) 21:55, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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  • Delete a non-notable beauty queen.John Pack Lambert (talk) 03:21, 20 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep A book written about her is recorded in Worldcat as being held in various libraries worldwide. I'll add it to the article. Title google-translates as "God Protect The Queen! : the first documentary of the life and death of Hungarian beauty queen, Csilla Molnár, after the liberation - the only one so far" ("God save the queen"?). PamD 10:01, 20 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
If she hit the LA Times in 1986 I'm sure she had further international coverage too, not so easily findable from that far back. Have added her imdb record, which shows a documentary "About the first Hungarian Beauty Contest in 1985, that led to a tragic end" (yes, I know imdb isn't a RS). Anyone who reads Hungarian could certainly use the many sources listed at the end of her Hungarian wikipedia article to expand this one. PamD 10:19, 20 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
You know good and well that IMDb is not a reliable source on here. Trillfendi (talk) 11:33, 20 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
And I said so above. PamD 12:48, 20 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
And there's a film about the contest and her death, mentioned in many snippet-view sources in Google books and a couple of more accessible sources, which I've added. Certainly notable. PamD 13:28, 20 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
It’s still not worth keeping. She didn’t even compete in a notable pageant. The only thing you deem notable about her is her death. It doesn’t make sense. Non-notable people have a whole channel dedicated to documentaries about their deaths: Investigation Discovery. Trillfendi (talk) 13:36, 20 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep, she is the most well known beauty queen in Hungary, because of her fate and political situation in Socialist Hungary. Another sources: [12]. --Norden1990 (talk) 18:12, 20 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep The July 1986 Reuters/UPI wire stories on her were picked up by Houston Chronicle (12 July 1986, p 18), Chicago-Sun Times (13 July 1986, p 5), San Francisco Chronicle (12 July 1986, p 3), Chicago Tribune (12 July 1986, p 4), and Orlando Sentinel (12 July 1986, p A10), among others. So WP:GNG-level coverage is obvious. The question is whether this falls under WP:BLP1E or not. The answer, I think, is no, and the clue is in the content of the RS sources above, which uniformly claim that excessive media attention to her beauty pageant win led to her suicide. I do not expect anyone to produce URLs to 1980s Hungarian press coverage of her win. However, the reliable sources say that the prior significant coverage existed. So, given that the subject received significant coverage at the time of her pageant win and significant coverage of her subsequent suicide, it's not WP:BLP1E. Bakazaka (talk) 19:08, 20 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Again I say, the LA Times source clearly stated that "The Miss Hungary competition is not connected with the Miss Universe pageant or any other international contest", therefore the pageant she won wasn't of any notability. Winning that contest clearly meant nothing besides driving her to take her own life. Apparently the only reasons she was "harassed" was because at that time in history, beauty pageants were frowned upon while the people suffered under communism. Certainly isn't worth taking up space here, especially with not having sources for her actual life besides her own "website". This isn't legacy.com Trillfendi (talk) 19:29, 20 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
It looks like you meant to reply to some other comment, as nothing in your reply responds to my !vote rationale. Bakazaka (talk) 19:39, 20 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Don't know if this source is helpful but I thought I'd leave it here [13]. She also has a Wikipedia article on the Hungarian Wikipedia [14]. Although the Los Angeles Times source claims that Miss Hungary is not connected with international competitions, it actually is (winners have gone on to compete in Miss Europe, Miss Earth, and Miss World). This is the competition that kicked off Zsa Zsa Gabor's career, after all. Willthacheerleader18 (talk) 17:17, 21 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I only speak extremely basic Hungarian, but reading that article didn’t do anything to convince the idea that it’s worth “keeping”. It’s only “source” is also her website! Nothing out there actually goes in depth about her life independently. Routine coverage about her suicide at best. Trillfendi (talk) 17:34, 21 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. There is enough new RS per PamD and Bakazaka for at least a technical pass of WP:GNG. Clearly, she was notable in her time. At a WP:COMMONSENSE level, a winner of a 1985 major beauty pagent in a large country would have had material RS on her from national sources at that time; which is not easily EN-searchable online. Britishfinance (talk) 15:52, 26 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
If people could read they would see that it clearly says the pageant was not part of the Miss Universe system or any other international contest. Trillfendi (talk) 16:06, 26 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
As I already pointed out, Miss Hungary is connected with international contests. -- Willthacheerleader18 (talk) 18:14, 26 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I can (and did) read. Miss Hungary is WP-notable enough to have its own WP-article, despite not being part of the "Miss Universe system". Your original nom was fair, but per WP:HEY, the GNG issues have been at least technically addressed, imho. Britishfinance (talk) 16:18, 26 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Even on 20 January 2019, on what would have been her 50th-birthday, Hungarian newspaper, 168 Óra, ran an article on her (e.g. WP:SIGCOV) "Today it would be 50 years for the tragic queen of beauty, Csilla Molnár". Search via her image on google, and it leads you to lots of RS Hungarian newspaper coverage. Britishfinance (talk) 17:50, 26 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Added a few more refs from mainstream Hungarian newspapers from 2015 to 2019 on her; she seems even today to be a notable subject for them. Britishfinance (talk) 21:00, 26 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak keep I believe subject scrapes through WP:GNG. -- Willthacheerleader18 (talk) 18:14, 26 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep I do believe, per the added sources during this AfD, that notability is established for GNG. I also believe that NMODEL is satisfied as Miss Hungary is sufficiently notable despite not being part of the Miss Universe set. Nosebagbear (talk) 20:42, 26 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment. What is the WP tag to suggest merging content with her Hungarian Wikipedia article Csilla Molnár (worked this out); she also has a lot of photographs uploaded onto Hungarian Wikipedia Commons, of which it would be nice to include at least one here for her infobox? Britishfinance (talk) 21:03, 26 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
No, Huwiki is one thing, Commons another. But I think there's a "Fair use" rationale which can be used to add a copy of a non-free image of a dead person in some circs. PamD 23:48, 26 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Ah okay, thanks for that, I was wondering why en-WP was defying my attemps to work out the :hu: link to it (and all permutations). thanks. Britishfinance (talk) 23:58, 26 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete. King of ♠ 01:56, 27 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Tournament shield[edit]

Tournament shield (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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No hits on this in google, and the article is grammatically garbled, so I can't tell whether the item is a piece of armor or a cloth flag/banner. Sbalfour (talk) 20:33, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

  • Delete. This seems to be a very bad translation of Scudo banerese and that the subject is actually the banner of a knight banneret, which is square, like the image in the article. Such a banner doesn't merit a standalone article. Clarityfiend (talk) 23:00, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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  • Delete. Bad translation, no sources, and a poor fork of Heraldic flag#Banner and Banner of arms. I actually do think this would merit a standalone (though Banner of Arms might be it) - but the current content here is inferior to what we have elsewhere. Icewhiz (talk) 07:25, 25 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete - fails WP:V. Smmurphy(Talk) 17:57, 26 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete. King of ♠ 01:56, 27 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Democratic Freedom Caucus[edit]

Democratic Freedom Caucus (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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Article almost exclusively links to the organization’s own web page and does not appear to have any elected officers at any level of government. Toa Nidhiki05 19:15, 12 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

  • Keep – a lot of water has gone over the bridge since this topic was deleted in 2006. E.g., a check on references does provide enough WP:RS to establish Notability. (And I wonder how getting "elected officers" is a criteria for notability.) – S. Rich (talk) 20:09, 12 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - Which sources are you referring to? Every source except for three go to the website for the organization, while the other three go to what appear to be internet blogs. There aren’t any notable members other than a former county councilman in St. Louis County, which is an extremely low bar. There’s very little to indicate this organization is even remotely notable. Toa Nidhiki05 20:46, 12 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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  • Delete Because I had never heard of it, and sourcing on page is almost all PRIMARY, I ran some searches. But very little came up, and most of the handful of hits were mere mentions. If someone can source it properly, feel free to ping me to reconsider.E.M.Gregory (talk) 22:57, 12 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete per above. Article mainly contains partisan sources. --Walk Like an Egyptian (talk) 00:40, 14 March 2019 (UTC); edited 05:30, 20 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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Keep I see no justifiable reason to delete this article. Just because most Americans have never heard of it doesn't mean we should delete the article. Most Americans have never heard of James K. Polk either ... Necropolis Hill (talk) 02:20, 16 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Necropolis Hill: - this isn't actually a reason (or certainly no more than an ILIKEIT reason). Articles don't have a presumption of retention - !votes need to demonstrate a reason. Nosebagbear (talk) 20:45, 26 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep The nominator seems to have an agenda--he not only has several conservative userboxes on his userpage, he has a pattern of editing Wikipedia in ways that reflect a partisan bias. Take a look at his contributions. The Democratic Freedom Caucus just seems to be his most recent political target since moving on from Ilhan Omar. If deletion is to be considered, that process shouldn't be initiated by someone whose motives are so clearly questionable. But the group is notable enough to have entries in politics-specific wikis, including an in-depth entry at Daily Kos's wiki http://www.dkosopedia.com/static/d/e/m/Democratic_Freedom_Caucus_f8c6.html. 2600:100D:B10C:D47E:1BB8:B5CE:54B0:3F (talk) 05:54, 16 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    Note This is the first edit this IP has made. Toa Nidhiki05 16:20, 16 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    Note True. But does it matter? Anyone can easily check for themselves. For whatever reason, Nidhiki05 decided not to say anything that actually addresses the points (not even to deny them!), but instead focuses on this. 2600:100D:B165:1AC7:8CFC:CB0:8C78:F9A1 (talk) 01:31, 17 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • Note This is this IP’s first edit too, and I don’t respond to unfounded personal attacks. Toa Nidhiki05 02:17, 17 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
      Note Yes, there's not much of a point in creating an account given how rarely I edit, and I'm using a cellular connection without a static IP. You've proposed to delete a page that's been on Wikipedia for almost a decade, so it's appropriate for people to ask why this process has been started in the first place. Others can consider the points I mentioned, look into them, and make up their own minds about whether the concerns are unfounded or not. 2600:100D:B15F:E6BA:8C7A:990:2577:30B8 (talk) 03:02, 17 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

‘’’NOTE’’’The guy proposing this for deletion is trying to remove references to Libertarian Democrats on Wikipedia. He previously deleted referenced material about them on the Party’s Wikipedia page and claimed that they aren’t notable.Necropolis Hill (talk) 14:06, 18 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

  • Reply - Incorrect. I removed your addition of this organization as a faction on the Democratic Party page, which has been rejected before. This time, I looked at the page and noticed this particular organization doesn’t meet the standard for notability and had previously been deleted for that reason. I’ve made no other edits on the subject of libertarian Democrats AFAIK. Toa Nidhiki05 15:26, 18 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete There is no coverage of this organization in mainstream media hence it lacks notability. TFD (talk) 16:29, 18 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Possible keep - I saw some references to it in Google News. But if not then let's look at redirecting the page to Libertarian Democrat or something. The history of this article can then be preserved. Karl Twist (talk) 12:05, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete - not enough in-depth coverage from independent, reliable sources to show it passes WP:GNG or WP:ORGDEPTH. Onel5969 TT me 14:34, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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  • Delete this advertisement. Trillfendi (talk) 20:20, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment, due to some new info and the fact that Democrat Mike Bozarth has been elected to the St. Joseph city council, I would strengthen by vote of Possible keep to a Keep. Karl Twist (talk) 10:26, 22 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    Comment It’s worth noting that Mike Bozarth was elected to one term nearly ten years agao (2006-2010) and is deceased. Toa Nidhiki05 12:13, 22 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    Reply - Yes Mike Bozarth has passed away all those years ago. I still stand by my changing of Possible keep to Keep. Actually he may have passed away in 2015 which is 4 years ago.
    See News-PressNOW.com, Oct. 14, 2015 - Liberty movement lost a friend
    He must have passed away not long after he received the Karl Wetzel Award for Lifetime Achievement for his over thirty years of activism in support of the Libertarian Party.
    See I ndependent Political Report' - Missouri LP 2015 State Convention Wrap Up, New Officers Elected By Cisse Spragins, Immediate Past Chair
    So he's worth noting.
    Thanks Karl Twist (talk) 12:52, 22 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete - Have a look at the sourcing. -- Somedifferentstuff (talk) 11:09, 23 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete promotional article, fails WP:GNG (and not sure if WP:NORG applies but that too.) — Preceding unsigned comment added by SportingFlyer (talk • contribs) 01.33, 25 March 2019 (UTC)
  • Comment to the above. It's not a promotional article! It just needs a lot more work on it. Karl Twist (talk) 08:34, 25 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was soft delete. WP:REFUND applies. King of ♠ 01:55, 27 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Soul Planet[edit]

Soul Planet (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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I don’t think this studio passed WP:ORG. Some of the people associated with were notable, but in itself it doesn’t seem to have been. Mccapra (talk) 19:45, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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  • Delete fails WP:GNG and currently has only primary sources cited. Needs more coverage.Burroughs'10 (talk) 18:27, 21 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was merge to Telford Park School. King of ♠ 01:55, 27 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The Secret Diary of a School Teacher[edit]

The Secret Diary of a School Teacher (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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Does not appear to satisfy the notability guidelines. Subject is a magazine article (or series of articles? It's rather unclear) which was widely circulated and covered by several news outlets over a few weeks in 2004, but the coverage has since completely died down. No evidence of any WP:SUSTAINED coverage or WP:LASTING significance. Paul_012 (talk) 19:25, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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  • Merge to Telford Park School. Even if the Private Eye article is notable, that doesn't mean it should have a standalone article. I don't see much scope for expansion and it can be adequately coverd in the school's article where it is most directly relevant. PC78 (talk) 16:10, 20 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete. King of ♠ 01:54, 27 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Cleanwell[edit]

Cleanwell (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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Cleanwell doesn't appear to be notable. The sources are overwhelmingly primary and a quick google search doesn't bring up a whole lot of independent coverage. The World's Signature (talk) 19:20, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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  • Delete - The article is promotional and the company does not seem to meet WP:CORPDEPTH and WP:GNG. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 13:41, 22 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete. No citations to reliable third-party secondary sources. bd2412 T 20:28, 26 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete, as I am unable to fin content that is not of as above. Couldn't find any more sourceings. I know the best wiki (talk) 21:23, 26 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was soft delete. WP:REFUND applies. King of ♠ 01:54, 27 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Casper Electronics[edit]

Casper Electronics (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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Not seeing anything that satisfies WP:COMPANY. Clarityfiend (talk) 19:02, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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  • Delete - I am unable to find any significant sources for this company and do not believe it meets WP:CORPDEPTH. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 14:20, 22 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was no consensus. This debate suffered from low participation, hence no prejudice to a renomination in a month or so. Randykitty (talk) 19:01, 26 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Tanya Davis (artist)[edit]

Tanya Davis (artist) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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Non-notable artist. Sourced by weak mentions. Promotional. ThatMontrealIP (talk) 15:57, 5 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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  • The President of one of the largest - if not the largest - artists' organization in the USA is definately notable enough for inclusion in WP - especially since she has been representing us in the battles against the City of Alexandria's takeover of the Torpedo Factory! 64.26.99.248 (talk) 21:48, 8 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Being president of something does not contribute to notability, unless people write about you. If you have links to articles in newspapers, post them here. ThatMontrealIP (talk) 22:36, 8 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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My apologies as I'm not sure if I'm doing this right, but it seems to us that "Being the president of something does not contribute to notability, unless people write about you", with all due respect, seems to be a short-sighted and far-away viewpoint (Montreal?) which is not aware of the trails and tribulations that the Torpedo Factory artists have experienced over the last few years in their struggles versus the City of Alexandria - and instead of the articles "being about you" (in this case Ms. Davis and/or her successor), the articles and the debate have been about the issues - the multiple issues carried forward by Davis and others, but led by the Presidents of one of the largest artist's organization in the country. Perhaps the article on Davis should focus more attention on that aspect of her artistic presence? I do not mean to start an online argument or debate - but we do mean to try to enter that there are a lot of us here in Alexandria who think that she is indeed notable-enough for a Wiki article. 64.26.99.248 (talk) 20:55, 18 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

We judge notability based on established sources, per WP:notability. All the things you say are helpful and relevant to a particular community's situation, but they are essentially subjective. In order to make Wikipedia as neutral as possible, we go on the fact that people have been independently been written about by good publications with independent editorial teams. So it really is all about the sources, and very little about the situation. As well, the location of our editors is irrelevant. Wikipedia editors from the opposite side of the globe are able to more or less objectively edit articles on subjects on the other side of the globe-- based on their use of the relevant policy and by relying on globally published sources to back up claims made in articles. ThatMontrealIP (talk) 03:49, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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  • Comment leaning to delete, but this is a bit of a mess. Tanya Davis probably doesn't meet WP:ARTIST, as the awards don't rise to the level expected here, and I couldn't verify the UMD Art Gallery collection. Torpedo Factory Artists' Association is not one of the largest artist associations in the country; it is a 281 member artist center in Alexandria Virginia. It might meet notability, as there are an abundance of passing references in the Washington Post, and other regional papers going back into the 1980s, along with a few in-depth articles, which mostly focus on the recent relationship between the Torpedo and the city of Alexandria. I'm pretty neutral about Davis, and probably would give weak support for an article about Torpedo. --Theredproject (talk) 13:02, 23 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Things I would want clarification on before !voting to keep:
  • Is her work actually in Maryland Artist’s Collection, University of Maryland University College
  • What is the 2002 Art & Antiques Magazine Award of Excellence, and can we verify it (I tried, and couldn't)
  • Does being a Signature Member of the National Watercolor Society mean much? They list 750 of them on their website, so I'm guessing it doesn't mean much more than being a dues paying member? --Theredproject (talk) 13:10, 23 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was redirect to Camellia Institute of Technology. King of ♠ 01:53, 27 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Camellia Institute of Engineering[edit]

Camellia Institute of Engineering (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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Unferenced, fails WP:NORG. Not even a website linked, WP:BEFORE reveals mainly references for (not much better) Camellia Institute of Engineering & Technology. While this probably not a WP:HOAX (can anyone find their homepage?), and probably not just a merge to the "& Technology", there is no indication this is a properly accredited school (WP:NSCHOOL). Finally, WP:NOTYELLOWPAGES. Also remember [15] suggests all "Camellia" schools (in addition to the nominated one and the other listed, those would be Camellia Institute of Technology, Camellia Institute of Technology & Managemen and Camellia School of Engineering & Technology) are part of the same holding company, [16] Camellia Group. Perhaps a merge would be an option. PS. Before you post that 'all schools/universities are notable per WP:SCHOOLOUTCOMES', please note that we need at least a proof that such institutions are "independently accredited degree-awarding institutions". What I am worried here is that Wikipedia can be used as a vehicle to promote 'fake schools', ones which are not accredited properly (see Diploma mill and related concepts - it is difficult to extent WP:AGF to such articles given such context). That of course is a worry on top of the regular 'this is a WP:CORPSPAM that fails WP:NORG. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 05:22, 5 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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*Comment. The list of associated schools in the references for Camellia Institute of Technology lists Camellia Institute of Technology, Camellia Institute of Engineering and Technology, and Camellia Institute of Technology and Management as separate entities, in separate locations, with separate course offerings. If you look at the location cited for CIE on Google Maps, it shows an arrow for Camellia Institute of Engineering and Technology, so I think that's Camellia Institute of Engineering, and an entirely separate school from Camellia Institute of Technology. So, if we're keeping Camellia Institute of Technology, then I think we keep Camellia Institute of Engineering, but rename to Camellia Institute of Engineering and Technology?BubbaJoe123456 (talk) 00:15, 6 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was no consensus. Randykitty (talk) 18:56, 26 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

List of awards and nominations received by Girlfriends Films[edit]

List of awards and nominations received by Girlfriends Films (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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Does not meet WP:LISTN and excessive intricate detail cited to primary sources. K.e.coffman (talk) 01:17, 12 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

  • Delete Clearly fails WP:NLIST, and all of the titles doesn’t even exist as a Wikipedia article. Sheldybett (talk) 12:06, 12 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment. But many of the awards listed her are WP-notable awards with their on WP articles? I don't see how deleting a list article about a WP-notable film studio (it has its own WP-article), which has many WP-notable awards, meets any form of WP:PAG? In that case, there are thousands of WP film awards lists that can be AfD'ed. Britishfinance (talk) 11:10, 26 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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  • Comment. I don't understand the issue here. The studio Girlfriends Films has its own WP page. We have (tens of) thousands of WP articles on people, films, studios etc. with seperate WP articles listing their film awards. Most of the awards Girlfriends Films have won also have their own individual WP articles; AVN, XBIZ and XRCO Award? Britishfinance (talk) 13:22, 17 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
This is not a typical feature in WP:NCORP articles, and is generally tied to either WP:LISTCRUFT and / or promotionalism. --K.e.coffman (talk) 02:21, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
But this is a film-studio and not just an NCORP. We have lots of WP seperate list articles for film awards. Many of these awards have their own WP articles? I don't see the clear WP:PAG that is been broken here; in fact, per my comments below, deleting this would violate WP:PAG? Britishfinance (talk) 11:12, 26 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Merge and redirect to Girlfriends Films, which is barely more than a stub. Possibly trim the least notable awards out of the list in the process. bd2412 T 12:04, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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  • Nom's comment: these PR-driven awards will be undue in the main article, so I would oppose a merge. --K.e.coffman (talk) 22:51, 20 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment. So because the list includes some -WP notable awards, amongst the many WP-notable awards, you would deleted the whole article? AfD is not clean up, and such issues should be discussed on the Talk Page. That is flawed logic and certainly not consistent with any WP:PAG that I am aware of. Britishfinance (talk) 11:17, 26 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. I cannot see this as being a full delete as there are a lot of WP-notable awards being listed here (which are also part of WP:PORNBIO): AVN Award, XBIZ and XRCO Awards. A full delete therefore makes no sense. I could see the rationale for a Merge per bd2412 (although somebody then needs to do it, and this list is very long, so it would distort the main Girlfriends Films article), but certainly not a Redirect, as it would hide lots of WP-notable material?
I still don't see how this fails WP:LISTN (and no "delete" above has explained it). Per WP:LISTN, this list is a "complex and cross-categorization lists (such as "Lists of X of Y")", which are acceptable under LISTN as Girlfriends Films (i.e. "X") is WP-notable, and so are many of the awards AVN Award (i.e. "Y"). If there are non WP-notable awards then it can be discussed on the Talk Page but it is not an AfD concern (e.g. AfD is not clean up); however I can point to thousands of WP List articles where not all the items in the list have WP articles. Britishfinance (talk) 11:07, 26 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment. Just to clarify, of the five classes of awards that Girlfriends Films have been nominated/won in their LIST only one is possibly, a non-notable award class:
AEBN Award have a section in a WP article
AVN Award have their own WP article
XBIZ Award have their own WP article
XRCO Award have their own WP article
NightMoves Award have their own WP article
Either the WP-community should come out clearly and state that it does not want PORN-related articles, OR, the WP-community needs to clarify that despite the !votes, WP PORN-related articles that meet WP:PAG must not be deleted. Otherwise, we (and I), are wasting our time quoting WP:PAG at AfD on porn-related articles? Britishfinance (talk) 12:12, 26 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was keep. A possible merge can be discussed on the article's talk page. Randykitty (talk) 18:54, 26 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Sons of the New Testament[edit]

Sons of the New Testament (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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Non-notable political party, never really took off. Admittedly, I am relying on the Hebrew naming within the article but neither names give anything in the way of significant in depth coverage. Praxidicae (talk) 19:10, 24 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

  • Delete No evidence of notability beyond some brief publicity when it was launched; never contested an election as far as I can see (certainly has not contested a Knesset election). Number 57 19:14, 24 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • I checked. The list was submitted in the 2019 elections. gidonb (talk) 09:27, 3 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
      • Yes, I've just seen it appear on the party lists page. However, I still don't believe it's notable. My preference now would be to delete or merge it to List of minor political parties in Israel. It's not realistic or useful to have perma-stubs on every minor list that's ever contested a Knesset election. Number 57 12:47, 3 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
        • I only pointed out that the information you provided is incorrect. gidonb (talk) 13:04, 3 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Automated comment: This AfD was not correctly transcluded to the log (step 3). I have transcluded it to Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Log/2019 February 24. —cyberbot ITalk to my owner:Online 19:26, 24 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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  • Keep Part of Israeli political history, albeit fringe. No reason to delete. Credible sources exist.--Geewhiz (talk) 06:55, 25 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • All but one of the sources are from a single day on which the party was announced and there is virtually nothing since. It's clearly not notable. Number 57 12:42, 25 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
      • I see coverage throughout 2013, as well as in 2016, 2017 and 2019. Definately not all but one around one day! gidonb (talk) 13:10, 3 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep as per Gilabrand and Number 57. Sheldybett (talk) 15:26, 26 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Merge reasoning per Number 57, party could be merged into the article "List of minor political parties in Israel". ShimonChai (talk) 05:58, 27 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete We see a regular flow of new and wannabe political party articles at Wikipedia. This one is pretty typical. It was founded by a non-notable citizen (actual new parties tend to be founded by notable political figures,). The founder, Bishara Shlayan [17], started a twitter account a few months after announcing his new party; he has 11 followers - no indication of notability there. The announcement "Bishara Shlayan, an Israeli Christian Arab from Nazareth who is creating a new Arab political party, says many citizens, including Jews, are contacting him to express their support, and some of them want to donate." However, they "fear to go public with their support, he said." Party had no followers. It got a flurry of news coverage when it was founded. And nothing since. Founder appears never to have been mentioned in the press again. party never ran a candidate. It never existed beyond the announcement made by the man who announced that the had founded it. We cannot even call it a defunct political party. I oppose adding it to a list of political parties because the never was a political party. Feel free to ping me if I have missed some evidence that this "party" existed in my searches. I am always willing to change an iVote.E.M.Gregory (talk) 20:21, 1 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    Hi E.M.Gregory, I believe you asked for a ping when this spans more time and actual candidates run for office. Best, gidonb (talk) 09:03, 3 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Gidonb Can you provide those sources? Because I've searched and found exactly 0 that satisfy notability. Praxidicae (talk) 23:25, 2 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Praxidicae There are excellent references already linked in the article. gidonb (talk) 23:28, 2 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The blaze is certainly not an excellent source and none of the others are in depth coverage. Praxidicae (talk) 23:38, 2 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
And to add to that is a 404, is certainly not a neutral, reliable source and at best, what is said about the subject in the others are from POV pieces and not at all in depth. Praxidicae (talk) 23:51, 2 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I have improved the sourcing. It is common that nominators argue with the references and those who disagree with the deletion, even after improvments were made. Withdrawal is less common. Not every nominator is up to this challenge... gidonb (talk) 23:55, 2 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Why would I withdraw when my point is still valid? The sourcing is still not adequate nor does the appropriate sourcing exist. Praxidicae (talk) 23:59, 2 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
In your opinion. I think it is more than sufficient. We'll see what others say. gidonb (talk) 00:02, 3 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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  • Examining the new, post-2013 English-language material added to page.
  • 2016 Soldiers under Threat is about Israeli Christians who enlist in the IDF and are threatened by Muslim neighbors. It cites Amir Shalian, one of the founders of the Forum for Christian Enlistment to the IDF, co founder is the cofounder of this party, a cousin, but article doesn't support notability of this political party.
  • 2016 Jewish News Syndicate: [https://www.jns.org/christmas-reality-palestinians-use-christians-as-a-pawn-israel-protects-them/ Christmas reality: Palestinians use Christians as a pawn, Israel protects them: "Shlayan, who is attempting to establish an Israeli Christian political party called Ichud Bnei Habrit (United Allies of the Covenant),..."} This doesn't support notability of the party, still just a guy in Nazareth who is "trying".
Gidonb, if you could be a little more specific, perhaps pull out the exact Hebrew passages that support the notability of the party, and election filing. (And if you could ping me when you do, that would be a great courtesy.) At this point I am pretty skeptical, leaning delete.E.M.Gregory (talk) 19:24, 6 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Hi E.M.Gregory.
While referencing the article, I have added or improved 18 references of which about half have WP:SIGCOV, add to the notability of the subject, and easily draw it over the WP:GNG line. Nomination is a WP:BEFORE failure. All 18 are good articles, in 16 out of 18 cases authors took pride in what had been written and signed themselves. The two other articles are also by highly reputable sources, Haaretz and JNS. Newspapers include important national newspapers, such as Haaretz, Yediot Aharonot, Israel HaYom, Globes, Maariv, and Jerusalem Post. In the US, references include Fox News, Christianity Today, TheBlaze. Major channels next to popular Jewish newspapers that are now mostly read online.
The two articles that you quote are not part of the WP:SIGCOV. That's ok. They still help understand the subject over time, as well as information in the article, and can be discussed. Specifically, the Jewish News Syndicate made on 23 December 2013 an observation that is similar to the one you made on March 1, 2019. To understand where both were right and wrong we have to understand the timeline. After the 2013 Knesset election (January 22) and for the remainder of the year Bishara Shilyan and his movement were heavily covered: they were to establish a party and building a large Jesus statue in Nazareth, while drawing attention to discrimination, intimidation, and violence against Christians in Israel by their Muslim neighbors.
This group organized under the name "Diglei HaBrit" (Flags of the Covenant). So what makes it into a real party? Running of course. Registration as a party in Israel is usually done before elections at the Party Registrar. Did they run? Not in the next cycle of 2015! To be fair, there were extenuating circumstances: these were rushed elections after Netanyahu had basically taken his own government down, yet your comment from March 1 and that of the JNS's journalists were to the point. Neverthless, proof is and should be in the pudding. So the next election cycle the movement did register and does run (right now!), making this a terrible time to delete the article, also in light of the WP:SIGCOV WP:RS WP:V coverage. Best, gidonb (talk) 22:34, 10 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Merge. I cannot really evaluate the hebrew sources with respect to reliability, but there isn't enough material for a standalone article here. A merger into List of minor political parties in Israel would be ideal; failing that, deletion would be my next preference. Vanamonde (Talk) 15:01, 11 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was redirect to Lamar Consolidated High School#Athletics. Anything worth merging is available from the article history. Randykitty (talk) 18:49, 26 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Lamar Consolidated Baseball[edit]

Lamar Consolidated Baseball (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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Appears to fail WP:GNG. From what I can tell, anything considered notable in the article is specific to players and per WP:NTEAM: "Since notability is not inherited, the notability of an athlete does not imply the notability of a team or club, or vice versa." A Google search returns pretty routine coverage, which is perhaps to be expected for a high school sports team. Cubbie15fan (talk) 17:13, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Randykitty (talk) 18:47, 26 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

James Nelson Lee[edit]

James Nelson Lee (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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Not notable local judge. ...William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 15:31, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Randykitty (talk) 18:45, 26 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Robert Tingle[edit]

Robert Tingle (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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Failed candidate for public office with little coverage. Fails WP:GNG and WP:NPOL.

WP:BEFORE done: nothing found. ––Redditaddict69 (talk) (contribs) 21:56, 11 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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  • Delete - fails NPOL and certainly doesn't satisfy consensus on other aspects. With 2 senate elections, there isn't a "biggest election" to redirect to. As a side note, the 2008 section actually reads as if it was written by the other side. Nosebagbear (talk) 22:46, 18 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete. Randykitty (talk) 18:44, 26 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Ford E. Stinson Jr.[edit]

Ford E. Stinson Jr. (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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Not notable local judge. ...William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 14:30, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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  • Delete Non-notable local judge. Sourced only with local newspaper articles, obituaries and Government records. Best, GPL93 (talk) 15:06, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete another article on a non-notable local judge created by Bill Hathorn.John Pack Lambert (talk) 03:26, 20 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete. Randykitty (talk) 18:43, 26 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

J. Allen Carnes[edit]

J. Allen Carnes (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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Fails WP:NPOL. Mayor of small town. ...William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 14:28, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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  • Delete - the article said he was incumbent mayor, but I've updated it with a reference showing he was replaced in 2014 (so he served 2 years). This is a job so minor that 800 people voted for his replacement, and there's no reference for his own election. A failed primary run doesn't confer notability by itself, and the mentions of him in the few independent sources for it doesn't come close to the "significant coverage" requirement of WP:BASIC. -- Finlay McWalter··–·Talk 14:55, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete Clearly fails WP:NPOL and WP:GNG. Best, GPL93 (talk) 14:58, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete Mayor of Uvalde, Texas, population 15,751 (2010). The subject's most notable claim is being a failed candidate for Texas Commissioner of Agriculture in 2014. Generally, our community expects nationalized (or international) coverage of a local mayor or candidate (well beyond the usual) to pass WP:NPOL. --Enos733 (talk) 19:41, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete a non-notable politician.John Pack Lambert (talk) 03:42, 20 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete. Randykitty (talk) 18:42, 26 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

John M. Robinson (Louisiana judge)[edit]

John M. Robinson (Louisiana judge) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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Not notable local judge. ...William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 14:25, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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  • Delete Like most of the Billy Hathorn articles nominated for deletion, there's nothing in the sourcing that implies notability. Best, GPL93 (talk) 14:59, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete district judges are rarely notable, nothing indicates Robinson is an exception.John Pack Lambert (talk) 03:03, 20 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete. Randykitty (talk) 18:41, 26 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Kickstart CSS library[edit]

Kickstart CSS library (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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This article does not appear to meet the WP:GNG as lacking a significant presence in independent reliable sources. Izno (talk) 14:02, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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  • Delete Not finding any coverage aside from in-house docs and listings. --Elmidae (talk · contribs) 21:30, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete - Non notable subject with no significant coverage available anywhere. --RaviC (talk) 20:33, 20 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete . Materialscientist (talk) 05:24, 20 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Rudina Suti[edit]

Rudina Suti (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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I want the page on my name to be deleted, because I am not a notable person. — Preceding unsigned comment added by RudinaSuti (talk • contribs) 13:46, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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  • Delete as notability not established. Mccapra (talk) 22:06, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete not enough sources to pass the general notability guidelines.John Pack Lambert (talk) 04:01, 20 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was redirect to List of Fear the Walking Dead characters. (non-admin closure) Jovanmilic97 (talk) 14:17, 26 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Luciana Galvez[edit]

Luciana Galvez (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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Yet another article about a character which consists almost solely of plot lines, very little out there about the real world notability of the character. Should be a redirect, but an editor is insisting on creating this article. Onel5969 TT me 13:54, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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  • Redirect I nearly nominated it for deletion myself last night but decided to consult another NPP instead. This character lacks the sort of real world significance Wikipedia demands these days. Personally I liked the "old days" when we had these sorts of character articles but this is clearly outside of current community norms and for good reason. Best, Barkeep49 (talk) 14:15, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete. Randykitty (talk) 18:40, 26 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Margaret Walters (folk singer)[edit]

Margaret Walters (folk singer) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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Australian folk singer towards end of her career. Fully fails WP:GNG, with minor coverage and name-checks (at best), in lower tier/niche Australian sources. Also fails WP:MUSICBIO (never nationally charted, no major awards, no major write-ups, no major tours etc.). The "External Links" section to her own Official Bio, and her Official Band, also indicate little GNG. Any case for this BLP is very (very) technical at best, but I cannot see a long-term future for this BLP in WP. Britishfinance (talk) 13:53, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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  • Delete My searches confirm NOM's assessment above. There is one sound recording held in the NLA, but, not notable. Aoziwe (talk) 08:29, 20 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was redirect to Amavasu dynasty. (non-admin closure) Jovanmilic97 (talk) 14:15, 26 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Kushambha[edit]

Kushambha (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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Not in source given (either spelling), and appears from what I can see in books to be just a name in a genealogy, a "son", "brother", "father" to others, but not someone with any notability for themselves. WP:NOTINHERITED applies. Fram (talk) 13:44, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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  • I agree - Redirect (or merge) to Amavasu dynasty. The subject appears to relate to myth, not history, so that the only source to provide more information would be the two great Hindu epics. If they said more, I suspect we would already have it, but my guess it that he only appears in a genealogy. Peterkingiron (talk) 17:31, 24 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete. Randykitty (talk) 18:36, 26 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Rajiv Gandhi Cricket Stadium, Pondicherry[edit]

Rajiv Gandhi Cricket Stadium, Pondicherry (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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University cricket ground which has only hosted university games, no top-level games or notable teams, so fails WP:CRIN. No links provided to provide WP:GNG coverage. Google search throws up a bunch of mirrors of this article. Spike 'em (talk) 11:29, 12 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was Keep (non-admin closure) Crystallizedcarbon (talk) 10:55, 26 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Nathan Gorman (boxer)[edit]

Nathan Gorman (boxer) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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Non-notable boxer does not meet WP:NBOX PRehse (talk) 08:35, 5 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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  • Keep. Easily satisfies WP:GNG, as I pointed out when I removed the prod. --Michig (talk) 08:47, 5 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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  • Keep boxer has had some decent coverage with plenty or articles like this one. Govvy (talk) 19:49, 5 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete. Randykitty (talk) 18:33, 26 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Super Puma Display Team (Switzerland)[edit]

Super Puma Display Team (Switzerland) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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Not only does this article fail WP:GNG (its only listed reference a dead link that was supposed to go to the subject's web page and all of its external links go to non-independent and sometimes primary sources, nothing better online), it appears to be subverting the consensus established here to redirect the article's non-disambiguated title to here (no comment on whether this subversion was intentional, although this does mean that the disambiguation is inappropriate) signed, Rosguill talk 03:22, 12 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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  • Comment while nominating the related article F/A-18 Hornet Solo Display (Switzerland), I came across a citation to a reliable source that does actually mention the Super Puma Display Team. However, a short mention in an article in a local paper[21] does not single-handedly make something notable. signed, Rosguill talk 03:47, 12 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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  • Delete due to a lack of significant coverage. YSSYguy (talk) 21:39, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete. Randykitty (talk) 18:27, 26 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Dolly Sharma[edit]

Dolly Sharma (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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Fails WP:NPOL, unelected politician. This was proposed for deletion, but the Prod was removed and the category "List of Mayors of Ghaziabad" was added. However, no Dolly Sharma is or has ever been mayor of Ghaziabad, the actual mayor is, according to List of mayors of Ghaziabad and reliable sources, Asha Sharma, who is not a member of the Indian National Congress but of the Bharatiya Janata Party. Dolly Sharma was defeated at that election [22]. Fram (talk) 10:47, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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  • Delete - fails to meet WP:NPOL for inclusion, all the coverge I can find is about her nomination. -- Whpq (talk) 11:32, 20 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was redirect to Nathalie Loiseau#Personal life. Consensus that coverage is insufficiently sustained, a variant of BLP1E and would also be purely be based on a joke rather than an actual animal. Two Keep !votes were discounted for being WP:ILIKEIT examples, however a fairly clear consensus would have existed anyway. Additional relevant information to the joke can be added to the redirect target article if thought appropriate (non-admin closure) Nosebagbear (talk) 15:28, 26 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Brexit (cat)[edit]

Brexit (cat) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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BLA1E, animals known for one event. Not every one-day human interest story needs an article. Fram (talk) 10:26, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

  • Keep. The cat has received extensive media coverage in France, the UK, the US, Russia, Germany and probably many other countries, which is quite rare for a cat, and we have many other articles such as Freya (cat). In any event it would be more reasonable to merge & redirect the article to its owner Nathalie Loiseau than deleting it. --Tataral (talk) 10:32, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • Update: Apparently her office has clarified that the cat does not actually exist in response to the media coverage[23]. In light of that: delete or redirect. --Tataral (talk) 18:39, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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  • Merge into Nathalie Loiseau per WP:ATD. The topic here is not so much the cat as it is Loiseau's joke. Loiseau's article is currently quite thin and so there's no need for a spinoff yet. Andrew D. (talk) 12:08, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • If the cat doesn't actually exist then I'm going with Delete as the Loiseau article already has a mention of her joke. Andrew D. (talk) 20:09, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep, I guess? There is definitely coverage, although I find a silly joke about a cat's name pretty weak material for a topic. I might argue this cat is famous because the owner is of note and therefore a merge is best, but you can't really prove the owner's fame is why the coverage occurred. Sometimes cats just get famous, or the Daily Fail is low on child dismemberment stories for the day. I also think that at some point WP:GNG works best without convolutions or complications, where reliable extensive coverage = notable, silliness aside. MidwestSalamander (talk) 12:15, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • GNG requires sustained coverage, not a one-day or one-week article across the world, but evidence of lasting notability. There are many silly, endearing, spectacular, ... things which get their 15 minutes of worldwide fame, usually in the pages with unimportant news or as clickbait online. These things don't meet the WP:GNG, see the WP:SUSTAINED section of the GNG. Fram (talk) 12:50, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Excellent point. I vote delete or redirect per Fram. MidwestSalamander (talk) 13:13, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait, if the cat doesn't exist, why does the article exist? Delete Bkissin (talk) 21:30, 20 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete. Randykitty (talk) 18:27, 26 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

G-Core Labs[edit]

G-Core Labs (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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De-prodded without rationale, original PROD rationale was "Most of the coverage has been on one of their products, G-CDN, which may meet WP:NPRODUCT, but I am not seeing sufficient WP:CORPDEPTH for G-Core Labs itself." SITH (talk) 10:07, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete, insufficient in-depth coverage in reliable sources to satisfy WP:NCORP. The Guinness record might be a claim to fame, except that it doesn't mention this company at all; the claim that the company was involved in it is sourced only to one of its own press-releases ("Our content delivery network is the fastest and leading in Russia") which anyway does not make any mention of Wargaming or World of Tanks. This is also undisclosed paid editing in violation of our Terms of UseEsknyazeva has made no secret of his/her connection to the company (here, for example: "added big customers of our company with proof links to reliable sources"), but has made no appropriate paid-editor disclosure. Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 17:21, 21 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was soft delete. WP:REFUND applies. North America1000 01:41, 26 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

EnPowered[edit]

EnPowered (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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Small startup. Per sources in the article, in 2016 it had a staff of one. Per their crunchbase profile they currently have 11-50 employees. Fails WP:NCORP - specifically the cited sources in the article are not reliable, not independent, or not in depth (or a combination thereof). Icewhiz (talk) 07:35, 12 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was redirect to Legend of the Black Shawarma. (non-admin closure) Jovanmilic97 (talk) 14:14, 26 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Smashing the Opponent[edit]

Smashing the Opponent (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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No major coverage of this single, never charted or received any awards. Fails WP:NSONG. Sources found via Google are only passing mentions. Jalen D. Folf (talk) 04:24, 12 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Randykitty (talk) 18:24, 26 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Troll Cabal[edit]

Troll Cabal (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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No reasonable claim to notability. Does not belong here. Mahveotm (talk) 12:36, 5 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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  • Weak delete Looks borderline as far as notability goes - the sources look marginal at best. If kept, it will need a pretty heavy rewrite, as it slips from quotes to unsourced editorializing in multiple spots, making it hard to tell what is sourced and what is just some random editor's 2-cents. May be a case for WP:TNT. PohranicniStraze (talk) 16:21, 5 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Merge with Yemi Adesanya. Perhaps trim down to a couple of paragraphs in a section on the bio page of the person described as the second in charge here: [24] Unoc (talk) 02:06, 7 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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  • Keep as a public interest issue. Hi I have an interest in this article. I am Papadonkee on twitter and I was a Convener of the Troll Cabal. We are an online group of satirists that lampoon Nigerian life and politics. Each year we hold online elections for a Convener. Elections this year take place on Saturday, which is why thebpage has been receiving a lot of good and bad attention. The Troll Cabal is a space that allows open and safe conversations about sensitive topics devoid of the usual divisiveness and rancour that typically enshrouds these sorts of conversations. Please keep the article as it is an online archive of the Activities of the Cabal. Papadonkee (talk) 22:30, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete per nom. The non-profit fails WP:ORG. Being affiliated with Yemi Adesanya isn't a valid reason for stand-alone inclusion.  Versace1608  Wanna Talk? 02:17, 20 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was no consensus. Given the low participation in the debate, no prejudice against renominating in a month or so. Randykitty (talk) 18:23, 26 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Versandhaus Walz[edit]

Versandhaus Walz (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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Source searches ("Versandhaus+Walz" 1, 2) indicate this company has not accrued the depth of coverage in independent, reliable sources to be considered notable. SITH (talk) 12:36, 5 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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  • Keep, considering also sources in German Wikipedia. Their "baby-walz" brand used to be the largest mail order / online retailer of baby products. "Die moderne Hausfrau" also has lots of hits, consider [25], [26]. Will need redirects from all the relevant brand names. —Kusma (t·c) 09:27, 6 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was no consensus. A possible redirect/merge can be discussed on the article's talk page. Randykitty (talk) 18:22, 26 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Cheyenne Arapaho Hall[edit]

Cheyenne Arapaho Hall (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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Fails WP:GNG. In relation to Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/University of Colorado Boulder student housing and Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Kittredge West Hall. Hiwilms (talk) 10:39, 5 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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  • Redirect. Consistent with the decision at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/University of Colorado Boulder student housing, this should be redirected to University of Colorado Boulder#Residence halls (or merged if there is any super-interesting content worth putting into the UCB main article. Note it is possible that in the future a list-article of UCB residence halls or of a mix of UCB buildings will be split out from the UCB article again, as a matter of basic editing if the sourced coverage there gets too long. It's just proper to leave the edit history in place and redirect. As noted in the close of the UCB student housing AFD, however, probably no one should split out such a list-article without trying to get some consensus at the UCB talk page. --Doncram (talk) 05:55, 9 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, North America1000 07:08, 12 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep in this case there are multiple reliable sources documenting the notability of this residence hall. - Scarpy (talk) 22:52, 12 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment. Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Kittredge West Hall resulted in a redirect. --Hiwilms (talk) 13:24, 13 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment. "Keep" would also be okay by me as an outcome here. There are multiple references included in the article. I didn't really consider the quality of the article when I voted "Redirect" above. --Doncram (talk)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, North America1000 09:48, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. I recommend that editors continue to explore merging Rapid Onset Gender Dysphoria and Lisa Littman; it seems to me from the discussion that there might be enough notability here for one article, but perhaps not for two. Sandstein 08:37, 26 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Lisa Littman[edit]

Lisa Littman (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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There was a consensus on this article's talk page six months ago ([[27]])to nominate at AfD as article fails notability tests WP:BLP1E (Subject is only notable for controversy surrounding a study she published) and WP:PROF (Subject is not notable as an academic). (As well as other policies mentioned in that discussion.) Since then no new reporting has come out to offer subject or study notability. Article has also been discussed at BLP noticeboard here: [[28]]

I am also nominating the associated page Rapid Onset Gender Dysphoria which was just created, also against consensus from the same discussion, as violating WP:RS and WP:MEDRS (subject has been described in a single study which is under review). Article was also discussed and consensus was not to create for same reasons among others, 6 months ago, at WikiProject Medicine, here: [[29]].Safrolic (talk) 08:46, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Update: I have notified page creators and the original editors involved in all three linked discussions (there was significant overlap).


Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Academics and educators-related deletion discussions. CASSIOPEIA(talk) 08:49, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Health and fitness-related deletion discussions. CASSIOPEIA(talk) 08:49, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Rhode Island-related deletion discussions. CASSIOPEIA(talk) 08:49, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Women-related deletion discussions. CASSIOPEIA(talk) 08:50, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. The subject is clearly notable under general notability per WP:N, as established by at least the following list of reliable sources that discuss Littman and/or ROGD. In previous talk page discussions, articles about the subject in established media sources such as The Economist and The Wall Street Journal have been discounted by editors who count only WP:MEDRS in establishing notability; in fact, citations to sources that pass muster under WP:RS but not under WP:MEDRS have been systematically removed from the article more than once. Click to expand the collapsed lists of sources establishing general notability:
United States references
  1. Borg, Linda (August 31, 2018). "Transgender article removed at Brown brings controversy". The Providence Journal. Archived from the original on 2018-09-02.
  2. "Brown researcher first to describe rapid-onset gender dysphoria". News from Brown (Press release). Providence, R.I.: Brown University. August 22, 2018. Archived from the original on 2018-08-23.{{cite press release}}: CS1 maint: unfit URL (link)
  3. "Brown statement, community letter on gender dysphoria study". News from Brown (Press release). Providence, R.I.: Brown University. August 27, 2018. Archived from the original on 2018-08-29.
  4. "Brown statement on gender dysphoria study". News from Brown (Press release) (September 5, 2018 ed.). Providence, R.I.: Brown University. August 27, 2018. Archived from the original on 2018-10-01.
  5. Flaherty, Colleen (August 31, 2018). "Journal Looking Into Study on 'Rapid-Onset Gender Dysphoria'". Inside Higher Ed. Archived from the original on 2018-09-01.
  6. Flier, Jeffrey S. (August 31, 2018). "As a Former Dean of Harvard Medical School, I Question Brown's Failure to Defend Lisa Littman". Quillette. Archived from the original on 2018-09-23.
  7. Heriot, Gail (August 30, 2018). "Are All Transgender People Born that Way?". The Volokh Conspiracy. Reason. Archived from the original on 2018-09-06.
  8. Kearns, Madeleine (September 6, 2018). "Why Did Brown University Bow to Trans Activists?". National Review. Archived from the original on 2018-09-20.
  9. Kearns, Madeleine (September 18, 2018). "Why Are Pediatrician Groups Conforming to Transgender Orthodoxy?". National Review. Archived from the original on 2018-09-20.
  10. Marchiano, Lisa (March 1, 2018). "Transgenderism and the Social Construction of Diagnosis". Quillette. Archived from the original on 2018-08-25.
  11. McCall, Becky (September 13, 2018). "'Rapid Onset Gender Dysphoria' in Adolescents Stirs Debate". Medscape Medical News. Medscape.
  12. Melchior, Jillian Kay (September 9, 2018). "Peer Pressure and 'Transgender' Teens". The Wall Street Journal. ISSN 0099-9660. Archived from the original on 2018-09-25.{{cite news}}: CS1 maint: unfit URL (link)
  13. Mikelionis, Lukas (August 30, 2018). "Brown U. censors 'gender dysphoria' study, worried that findings might 'invalidate the perspectives' of transgender community". Fox News. Archived from the original on 2018-09-15.
  14. "Reader outcry prompts Brown to retract press release on trans teens". Retraction Watch. August 29, 2018. Retrieved 2018-08-30.
  15. Sopelsa, Brooke (September 5, 2018). "Brown criticized for removing article on transgender study". NBC News. Archived from the original on 2018-09-19.
  16. Tannehill, Brynn (February 20, 2018). "'Rapid Onset Gender Dysphoria' Is Biased Junk Science". The Advocate.
  17. "Trans parenting: Why are so many teenage girls appearing in gender clinics?". The Economist. August 30, 2018. ISSN 0013-0613. Retrieved 2018-08-30.
  18. Veissière, Samuel (November 28, 2018). "Why Is Transgender Identity on the Rise Among Teens?". Psychology Today. Archived from the original on 2018-12-05.
  19. Veissière, Samuel (November 29, 2018). "Teen Transgender Identity: A Response to Critics". Psychology Today. Archived from the original on 2018-12-05.
  20. Veissière, Samuel (December 2, 2018). "The Debate on Trans Teens: Compassion Is Needed on All Sides". Psychology Today. Archived from the original on 2018-12-05.
  21. Verbruggen, Robert (August 16, 2018). "'Rapid Onset Gender Dysphoria'". National Review. Archived from the original on 2018-09-04.
  22. Wadman, Meredith (August 30, 2018). "New paper ignites storm over whether teens experience 'rapid onset' of transgender identity". Science. doi:10.1126/science.aav2613. ISSN 1095-9203. Archived from the original on 2018-08-31.
  23. Young, Cathy (September 6, 2018). "Misguided uproar over trans study". Newsday. Archived from the original on 2018-09-09.
International references
  1. "Être transgenre serait " contagieux " : Une étude sous le feu des critiques" [Being transgender could be 'contagious': A study under fire from critics]. Paris Match (in French) (Belgian ed.). September 12, 2018. Archived from the original on 2018-09-26.
  2. Kay, Barbara (August 22, 2018). "A new report sounds the alarm on Rapid Onset Gender Dysphoria". National Post. Toronto. ISSN 1486-8008. Archived from the original on 2018-08-28.
  3. Neumann, Marc (September 10, 2018). "Wenn's um Transgender geht, brennen die Sicherungen zuverlässig durch" [When it comes to transgender, count on fuses blowing]. Neue Zürcher Zeitung (in German). Zurich. Archived from the original on 2018-09-12.
  4. Rudgard, Olivia (August 28, 2018). "Brown University in row with transgender activists over claims gender dysphoria spreading among children". The Telegraph. London. ISSN 0307-1235. Archived from the original on 2018-08-29.
  5. Turner, Janice (August 18, 2018). "Trans teenagers have become an experiment". The Times. London. ISSN 0140-0460. Retrieved 2018-08-19.
  6. Van Pelt, Stan (September 11, 2018). "Wetenschappelijk artikel over 'besmettelijke' transseksualiteit loopt uit op academische rel" [Scientific article on 'infectious' transsexualism ends in academic riot]. de Volkskrant (in Dutch). Amsterdam. Archived from the original on 2018-09-12.
  7. Wente, Margaret (September 8, 2018). "Why the surge in gender dysphoria among teenage girls?". The Globe and Mail. Toronto. ISSN 0319-0714. Archived from the original on 2018-09-20.
ROGD sources not mentioning Littman
  1. Kaltiala-Heino, Riittakerttu; Bergman, Hannah; Työläjärvi, Marja; Frisén, Louise (March 2, 2018). "Gender dysphoria in adolescence: current perspectives". Adolescent Health Medicine and Therapeutics. 9. Dove Medical Press: 31–41. doi:10.2147/AHMT.S135432. PMC 5841333. PMID 29535563. Emerging discussions raise concern for post-pubertally abruptly emerging cross-gender identification ('rapid onset'), particularly among biological girls, suggesting a role for intensive media influences and generous group validation as shaping the understanding of, and giving new meanings to, the body discomfort common among female adolescents at large.
  2. Marchiano, Lisa (2017). "Outbreak: On Transgender Teens and Psychic Epidemics". Psychological Perspectives. 60 (3): 345–366. doi:10.1080/00332925.2017.1350804. S2CID 148741765. 'Rapid-onset gender dysphoria' is a new presentation of this condition that has not been well studied.
  3. Todd, Douglas (May 7, 2018). "If your child talks about being a different gender, take it slowly". Vancouver Sun. Archived from the original on 2018-07-18. The phenomenon, which Bradley said can be stimulated simply by friends talking about transitioning, is called Rapid-Onset Gender Dysphoria.
Based on at least the preceding lists, the continued existence of the Wikipedia article is more than justified, and content should be added that cites relevant sources listed above. Lwarrenwiki (talk) 12:00, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
To clarify, my position is keep for both articles. In addition:
  • I suggest we move Rapid Onset Gender Dysphoria (no hyphen, all words capitalized) to Rapid-onset gender dysphoria (hyphen added, sentence case), which appears to be more commonly used and also complies with WP:TITLEFORMAT.
  • I oppose adding the word "controversy" to the article's title, because that title would be taken to exclude content about the topic itself, limiting the article solely to content about the academic controversy surrounding the topic. It's a new article that obviously needs improvement. Adding "controversy" would preemptively stifle improvements to the article's coverage of its topic. Lwarrenwiki (talk) 21:06, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    The problem with missing out the word "controversy" is that the controversy is the topic of the article. 11 out of the 12 sources currently in the ROGD article discuss the controversy (and the only one that doesn't is the citation to Littman's original paper that sparked the controversy). There is no recognised evidence that such a condition exists, and until that changes, Wikipedia should not have an article on the speculated condition that says anything other than "this is a WP:FRINGE theory." --RexxS (talk) 22:18, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep, and also oppose the article itself being lumped in the same category as the person who coined the term, as their notability for WP is not inherently intertwined. Also suggest that the deletionist user nominating these articles is acting in bad faith, as I wrote a balanced article and include 10 different citations. The vote so far is unanimous aside from the original nomination, and I received a note of article approval from a medical project member. This page will also become a target of activists and censorists (as it appears is already happening), so it's important we uphold the basic values of WP here. Miserlou (talk) 13:19, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
If wanting medical articles such as what ROGD claims to be to abide by WP:MEDRES guidelines and base their claims of the scientific literature, not non scholarly polemics is now called "censorist" then I proudly embrace that label. Not long ago it was called rigorous, it's fair game to cite the corrected plosone page which claims ROGD has "not been clinically validated", or the editor's statement[[30]] when you are writing a scholarly paper. It is less traditional to cite political websites completely unrelated to the science at hand as your only sources. Call me old fashioned but I say we stick with rigor. Don't tar people who want medical rigor activists, instead improve your references so that your article is unimpeachable.Freepsbane (talk) 04:43, 20 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
It takes some rashness to say the nom is acting in bad faith when the Lisa Littman article was the subject of a RfC to decide what to do with the whole ROGD thing several months ago, and the RfC closer suggested the article be sent to AfD. I would've done it myself had I remembered to check what happened with the RfC. As for activism, there's already a bit of weasel wording on the ROGD page, e.g. "Activist publications have called ROGD "anti-trans",[9] "bad science"[10] and "a conservative invention",[1] whereas others have described the phenomenon as "particularly concerning" and called for further study,[1] while also suggesting that activists are "depriving the transgender community of their right to receive accurate information"." -- the first "other" is someone regularly called in for comment on Breitbart, and the second is who else but Lisa Littman herself... DaßWölf 17:52, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Begging pardon, but this is my first AfD nomination, ever, and I acted based on the consensus of three separate discussions spanning the breadth of the topic area, all of which you probably didn't see. I don't think that I could be characterized as "deletionist" or acting in bad faith. I do think, personally, that a single study which didn't actually look at any of the people it attempts to diagnose, and which is primarily promoted by opponents of transgender acceptance, doesn't deserve its own page on Wikipedia; if anywhere, it should be in an article about scientific transphobia to match the Scientific Racism article. My personal opinion is not bad faith. Safrolic (talk) 19:12, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Saying that a paper whose conclusion you disagree with "doesn't deserve its own page on Wikipedia", and then nominating both the article for the purported disorder and the article about one of the proponents of that disorder's recognition, might lead people to think that you want to WP:CENSOR Wikipedia's contents, which isn't something the community supports. In practice, we have articles about all sorts of disagreeable academic and pseudoacademic ideas, and we manage to handle most of them well (e.g., explaining that they're wrongheaded, or that they're technically correct but widely misunderstood, or whatever the reliable sources say). I mention this because if it feels like people are attacking your motives – well, we've unfortunately had a lot of difficulties related to this subject area over the years, and they might think that it's rational for them to be worried about whether your main motive is to prevent interested people from learning about this subject. WhatamIdoing (talk) 20:15, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Understood, thank you! My problem with the paper is its methodology more than its conclusion, and that's separate from my problems with the article, which is its fringiness and lack of acceptable sources, which is further separate from the original discussion on the talk page, which I didn't take part in. I'm sure that people will attack my motives, but I wanted to be transparent about my own biases anyways. As a note, PLOS ONE has just (literally just now) issued their post-publication review, and redefined the scope of the initial paper. It's now titled Parent reports of adolescents and young adults perceived to show signs of a rapid onset of gender dysphoria. Should I link that in the proposal above, or add it down below? [[31]] [[32]] Safrolic (talk) 20:29, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete and merge anything useful into an article about the ROGD controversy. There is not a single independent source discussing Littman (including the flood of refs above) that is not principally a report on the ROGD controversy. Just because a subject meets GNG does not mean that we have to have a stand-alone article, as clearly laid out in Wikipedia:Notability #Whether to create standalone pages. If Littman had any claim to notability beyond the ROGD controversy, there might be a point in it, but our article currently reads as (1) Littman went to uni and then med school; (2) Littman became an academic; and then (3) it re-hashes the ROGD article. When the vast bulk of a BLP merely repeats the content of another article, with nothing else beyond some mundane detail that would fit thousands of other non-notable individuals, it's time to consolidate its content into the place where it belongs.
    As for the ROGD article, I am certain that the controversy deserves an article, but I don't believe that the postulated medical condition has anywhere near enough MEDRS sourcing to indicate any mainstream acceptance. The present article should be retitled to Rapid Onset Gender Dysphoria controversy. --RexxS (talk) 13:43, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete per RexxS. XOR'easter (talk) 14:23, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep-ish but this is basically following RexxS's solution:
    • Merge Littman into the current ROGD article since she's a principal figure in it. There is nothing in there that is a BLP violation that needs deletion, and a brief bio sketch on the ROGD page to explain who she is would be fine so retain the contributions by the merge. Even if one believes Littman's article should be deleted, it should it should still end up as a redirct to the ROGD page.
    • Move ROGD to the ROGD controversy as suggested. Tagging it with that title alleviates the MEDRS concerns. --Masem (t) 14:41, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep Rapid Onset Gender Dysphoria and MERGE Lisa Littman to it per RexxS and Masem - GretLomborg (talk) 16:23, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Merge Lisa Littman to the ROGD article, and retitle to Rapid Onset Gender Dysphoria controversy per RexxS's suggestion. I think at this point there's probably enough lasting RS coverage that this topic satisfies notability criteria one way or the other. However, we need to make clear that what's notable about this isn't the as-of-yet poorly investigated theory, but the controversy surrounding it. I'm generally not a fan of redirecting BLPs to subject's work like this but there's probably a few sentences worth merging and it wouldn't do to lose the RfC on the talk page. DaßWölf 17:52, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Postpone this discussion entirely, because the "under review" paper isn't under review any longer: it was re-published today with some editing (e.g., to remove the word outbreak, which makes being trans sound like an infectious disease) and a lengthier description of the methodology, but with no fundamental changes to the conclusions findings. See https://www.chronicle.com/article/Journal-Issues-Revised-Version/245928 which says "The new version adds context and softens language that drew complaints from transgender advocates, but the primary findings in the paper remain unchanged", and https://blogs.plos.org/everyone/2019/03/19/correcting-the-scientific-record-and-an-apology/ which says "we have reached the conclusion that the study and resultant data reported in the article represent a valid contribution to the scientific literature". WhatamIdoing (talk) 20:24, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Finding that polling data from relatives was technically valid does not make an endorsement. The editor of PLOSone[33] and the reviewers found that Littman grossly overeached in using the poling data to claim a clinical discovery. Hence the Discussion section has been almost completely rewritten with emphasis put that there is no clinical data to back up the hypothesis. I promise you as someone who has dabbled in biomedical and has a journal publication or two that having to totally rewrite your discussion and publish a lengthy letter of correction is less than ideal, especially in a lower impact journal like plosone.Freepsbane (talk) 21:13, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Did anyone here claim that there was such an endorsement? IMO even if such an endorsement existed, that wouldn't change my mind: The impetus for this article is a controversial paper that was re-published on the same day that this attempt to delete it was begun. I therefore recommend not trying to rush forward with a decision, as if there were some WP:DEADLINE to get this deleted or re-written Right This Minute. It'd be better to wait a while. WhatamIdoing (talk) 04:40, 25 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
For everyone’s information it is important we look at what the peer review process found. "The post-publication review identified issues that needed to be addressed to ensure the article meets PLOS ONE’s publication criteria. Given the nature of the issues in this case, the PLOS ONE Editors decided to republish the article, replacing the original version of record with a revised version in which the author has updated the Title, Abstract, Introduction, Discussion, and Conclusion sections, to address the concerns raised in the editorial reassessment" If the argument was that the paper was approved and is unchanged, then according to Littman’s updated paper that is not the case.I think it good if we all have the most trustworthy sources possible when making arguments.Freepsbane (talk) 17:42, 25 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Regardless of whether the study or its conclusions were valid or not, the re-publishing changes nothing about the articles or the subjects or the reasons for the AfD. Littman is still a BLP1E who fails WP:PROF. ROGD is still a hypothesis based off one study with no clinical evidence, inherently failing WP:MEDRS. You're arguing for keeping these articles based on the chance that Littman may become notable in the future, or that ROGD as a condition may later be demonstrated in medical literature, and I don't see the point. Also, just to avoid anyone confusing the chronology, I introduced the AfD the night before the review came out. Safrolic (talk) 05:15, 25 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
And I think this is a good argument, keeping a medical page on ROGD, or on a non notable academic on the argument that in the future they might stop failing inclusion criteria is begging the question. No reason to break our rules on the chance of a future change.Freepsbane (talk) 17:42, 25 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Clarifying here that the findings are not the conclusions. The primary findings in the paper were what the parents surveyed said. That didn't change. The conclusions were what the author drew from her findings. Those have changed significantly and I posted the original and revised conclusions at the ROGD talk page. Safrolic (talk) 21:01, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete This seems to be a textbook example of WP:BIO1E: Asides from a single event that received some coverage from socially conservative sources (which has since petered down) there is very little else that can be found on Littman. If you check her publications, she hasn't published on a journal with an impact factor over 4. She is an nontenured assistant professor and there is nothing else she is notable for. If we ignore this single event and focus on general notability will we be giving every nondiscrepit Assistant Professor a Wiki page, I know quite a few with Nature and Science publications, one of them was even invited to some conference with the Gates Foundation. It's very hard to argue that other professors with blockbuster papers shouldn't get their own page when they far outstrip Littman by all Criteria.Freepsbane (talk) 21:23, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
It's totally irrelevant where she published. If she's covered by reliable sources that discuss her — it doesn't matter that the impact factor for studies is low. That's just a bait and switch — focus on the general notability guidelines... Carl Fredrik talk 17:19, 20 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The one playing bait and switch isn't me,Wikipedia:Notability (academics) says to weigh the impact of where they publish and how cited and well known they are in their field. The reliable sources they want are *academically* cited papers. Being mentioned by an obscure national review columnist isn't academic notability being mentioned in Nature Reviews is. As for ROGD the medical page WP:MEDRES clearly states that you need consensus, ideally reviews and barring that clinical studies of some kind. Right now, the rewritten PLOS paper says there is zero clinical data to back the existence of ROGD. Should we ignore our usual guidelines, why?Freepsbane (talk) 18:58, 20 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
As for the ROGD page, it should clearly be deleted per undue weight: as the corrected PLOSone paper notes, there is no clinical evidence to support the putative condition, only indirect anecdotes. If we gave every hypothesis low impact open journals published the same weight reviews in high impact journals get and gave them their own page, then you can imagine just how much speculation only pages we would get. ROGD is on extra thin ice since it has the black mark of the journal forcing a rewrite of the entire discussion to one that hedges on if the hypothesis even exists.Freepsbane (talk) 21:33, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete each article per nom; Littman is WP:BLP1E and non-notable, as outlined by others above, and RGOD is unsupportable to WP:MEDRS standards; if the latter article is kept, moving to a title with "...controversy" in the name might help, but because "all biomedical information [...] in any Wikipedia article" needs to meet MEDRS, it'd still be hard to say much about it beyond that it's unsupported. (Btw, regarding "it wouldn't do to lose the RfC on the talk page", it's always seemed a bit odd to me that WP deletes talk pages in cases like this; Wiktionary, for example, doesn't.) -sche (talk) 21:49, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
If that part of MEDRS were 100% upheld we'd not have any articles on, say, anti-vaxxers, which would be silly. MEDRS is important if anything of biomedical nature is said in a factual, WP voice. As long as we say in the article labeled "controversy" that "Proponents of this theory suggest..." and the actual accountable, disproving MEDRS sources included after the fact, that's encyclopedic. MEDRS cannot be used as a hammer to rid topics that aren't based on good science when there are other reasons to keep the topic. --Masem (t) 03:19, 20 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
That's actually a fallacy, there is no shortage of reviews and credible medical sources and organizations that cover antivax ideology and refute their claims. Whatsmore, if we followed your suggestion we would have to take a WP:BALANCE fallacy where we give both sides equal weight although the backing of sources is grossly unequal. PLOS says there is no clinical evidence to back this hypothetical condition. It shouldn't be that hard to take them at their word. MEDRES works just fine for refuting antivax as it's really easy to say find an AAP statment and review that meets MEDRES and debunks antivax claims. What is hard to find is clinical studies backing the antivax stance, ergo why we don't represent them equally.Freepsbane (talk) 03:57, 20 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Never said there would need to be a need to create a false balance to cover a controversial, non-MEDRS report. If the focus of the RGOD article is flipped to be about the controversy rather than the "condition", then we would briefly mention that the PLOS paper claims RGOS existed and defined as such, and then proceeded to move into the criticism of the paper, including any counterstudies that are from MEDRS, any undermining of the scientific approach used, etc., As long as throughout that article it is clear that RGOS is only a claim made by this paper and nowhere close to accepted medical fact, then it doesn't matter if there are or aren't MEDRS sources to refute it. The controversy around RGOD clearly appears notable, with most speaking against the likelihood of RGOD being legit, but it makes no sense to not have an article just because there doesn't exist an MEDRS to counter. We just need to make the approach and tone clear that WP is no way endorsing RGOD, and instead only documenting the controversy around it. --Masem (t) 13:46, 20 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Anti-vaccination redirects to Vaccination hesitancy, an article about the phenomenon of people who, despite the consensus of the many MEDRS-compliant studies and papers mentioned in the sources, still believe they're dangerous. It's an article more similar to Scientific racism or Climate change denial than neutrally presenting a medical phenomenon in its own right. What might be more applicable is MMR vaccine and autism. It's complete dissection of the flaws in the original research, using MEDRS-compliant reliable secondary sources. I'd be okay in principle with an ROGD controversy article in this style, personally; the problem is that there aren't MEDRS sources available, because nobody's bothered to do any further research, because the original study was so heavily discredited already. Safrolic (talk) 03:40, 20 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Speedy keep – This is pointless. She's thoroughly disliked, yet there are sufficient sources for notability. Everyone voting delete here needs to take a good hard think about what they're doing — and then reconsider how they best can improve the article instead of violating WP:POINTY. Carl Fredrik talk 21:51, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    I'm going by WP:BLP1E if someone is notable for a single event then it doesn't count. And as far as academic notability goes, almost every junior faculty member, along with a good chunk of postdocs I've met outstrips. If she gets an article, why don't those guys with their many seminal Nature papers get one too?Freepsbane (talk) 22:11, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    I'm serious, if we exclude the WP:BLP1E, I want to know why if a junior academic who publishes in sub impact factor 3 journals gets an article, then all the tenure track with Nature papers which have been very significant to recent biomedical advances shouldn't get their own articles as well. Certainly if we can create a medical page for ROGD when PLOS itself acknowledges that there is no clinical data to confirm the condition, then every abstract concept that is backed by Nature or some equally prestigious journal should get its own article.Freepsbane (talk) 22:18, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    @CFCF: I voted delete and I resent being told I didn't think about what I was doing. How about you consider this: given the sources available, we could write a very sketchy bio with a massive emphasis on the controversy; or we could write a weasel-worded article about a fringe theory concerning a condition that has very little evidence for its existence (with a massive emphasis on the controversy); or we could write a decent article about the controversy that contained the background of the individual concerned and the paper at the root of the controversy. I really did think about it, and I'm absolutely sure which of those is the best choice. What's your view on that? --RexxS (talk) 22:35, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Rexxs — Then we simply merge it to the theory, without needing to have a discussion about deletion. I agree your proposal makes sense, but this seems to be the wrong place to talk about it. Carl Fredrik talk 17:19, 20 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
How could you merge it to the hypothesis when it's abundantly clear that a page on medical theory would meet none of the WP:MEDRES criteria. Even the one PLOSone paper on the subject, after correction, says there is zero clinical evidence to support the hypothesis. There is enough nonschollarly sources for maybe a subsection in PLOSone's page, but according to even Littman's revised paper, we lack any scholarly sources to make a page on medical theory.Freepsbane (talk) 19:04, 20 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Well I just want to know why my friends, mentors and their Nature/Cell/Science articles shouldn't also get their own pages. If we can give ROGD a page despite the total and complete lack of any clinical data to validate it's existence, (according to plosone no less!), then I find it very hard to see why each and everyone of their very highly cited papers -Which are making a big impact in science- shouldn't be getting their own pages as well.Freepsbane (talk) 22:47, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
If they have sufficient sources about them, then why shouldn't they have articles? I don't care where she published, if she's controversial enough to have articles written about her — which is what matters of Wikipedia — she's notable. It's totally uninteresting that her research is crap. Carl Fredrik talk 17:19, 20 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Again,Criteria is pretty clear that notability should be based of the academic's scholarly work and how cited it is. If she were notable academically I'm sure you could point me to a Nature Review on her work. Freepsbane (talk) 19:06, 20 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

That said, @CFCF: was off the mark in guessing that my stance is based off animus. If it were I would be voting to keep her biography as PLOS one of all places forcing you to discard and completely rewrite your original discussion and conclusion and publicly criticizing it is no feather in one's cap. Deleting would probably be better for the career of the academic instead of forever being known for a high profile rejection of your conclusion and forced rewrite. The ROGD page I admit I am not impressed by but there we have a medical styled page covering what it claims to be a syndrome without providing so much as a single clinical study as evidence. Mind you I would say the same if we gave other fringe medicine topics the same undue weight. If sound evidence were provided I wouldn't be able to criticize no matter whatever purported biases I might have.Freepsbane (talk) 23:30, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete As weird as it sounds, it seems her work meets notability yet she doesn’t. Before I even read some of these (ridiculous) comments, I surmised this was a BLP1E. Trillfendi (talk) 22:44, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
ROGD as a medical condition completely lacks any clinical data, (even according to plosone) so that is debatable. That said, the controversy, as a popular culture, nonmedical topic, might possibly be notable.Freepsbane (talk) 22:47, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • One option could be to merge the ROGD publishing controversy with PLOS One while according to the revised paper itself there is no clinical data to support the hypothesis and so a page discussing it would quickly run afoul of WP:MEDRES and WP:Undue guidelines the nonscientific controversy aspect would fit perfectly into PLOS One's section on controversies. Especially now that the review and total rewrite of discussion/conclusion along with editor statement are completed.Freepsbane (talk) 04:09, 20 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
That's actually a really good idea. It looks comparable to the two instances there already, and provides a redirect-friendly landing spot for people searching for it. Safrolic (talk) 04:58, 20 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I would be careful with that, at least as I am reading; PLOS has its own problems, but this does not seem to be something directly that PLOS did (outside of being an easy-to-publish platform that made it easy for this work to get this far). PLOS did require the rewrite, but again, that's a response and not so much their direct involvement. It's effectively shooting the messenger, which WP should not do. (But that's based on what's in the article - if there is clearly more involvement from PLOS than given, that's different) --Masem (t) 13:55, 20 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
It wouldn't be shooting anything and you highlighted exactly why it's relevant to PLOS. It is easy to publish there so many of their papers end up undergoing post publication review. The consensus among their reviewers was that they let a paper with significant discussion and conclusion flaws through, and so they had those sections rewritten. Freepsbane (talk) 19:09, 20 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Following Freepsbane's suggestion, I've gone ahead and BOLDly created a new section with a focus on the initial issue, the review, and the final results. It can be found at PLOS_One#Rapid_onset_gender_dysphoria_controversy. If people like it, we can set up both redirects to that section; comparably, CreatorGate redirects to the section above. Justification for sources where potentially necessary will be found on the PLOS One talk page. Note to others who may want to edit it: I've tried to keep the overall length comparable to the the other two subsections. Let's make sure we don't use PLOS One as a WP:Coatrack. Safrolic (talk) 09:48, 21 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I like how your cites are nearly all from the journal, the editor and the reviewers. Very good idea to cite scholarly sources when possible since lay cites often summarize poorly. I’m trying to save the rogd page by improving it’s sources to make them medres compliant but I fear that is impossible: a single National Review writer with no expert qualifications makes nearly all the medical claims in the article. There are no peer reviewed sources to back the existence of the condition save for a PLOS article that instead is skeptical sans says there is no clinical evidence. I think merging ROGD with PLOS is our best bet.Freepsbane (talk) 20:06, 21 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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  • Comment: As noted, the Rapid Onset Gender Dysphoria article currently exists. It does not yet have its own AfD page. Instead, the AfD tag for the Rapid Onset Gender Dysphoria page currently points to this one. To me, this is not ideal since editors will have different reasons for why the Lisa Littman article should not exist and why the Rapid Onset Gender Dysphoria article should not exist. Even if the Lisa Littman article is deleted, the Rapid Onset Gender Dysphoria article might still exist because there is no WP:Consensus here to delete it. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 22:15, 21 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I bundled them together because they're both discussing substantially the same thing and they were both previously discussed together in the same RfC on the Talk:Lisa Littman page. I thought having two separate discussions with the same people might be more confusing. Is that alright? Safrolic (talk) 22:57, 21 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed: I’ve been trying to find scholarly sources for the ROGD page but that seems impossible, especially for finding ones that attest to its existence. I don’t believe it will be possible to keep rogd as a medical page. However it’s plently likely that even if Littman didn’t meet academic notability guidelines she might meet some other i’m not aware of. Rogd needs its own page for its own hearing.Freepsbane (talk) 22:24, 21 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was speedy keep. Nominated by sockpuppet with no delete votes. (non-admin closure) Atlantic306 (talk) 19:55, 23 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Jhanjh Lobongo Phool[edit]

Jhanjh Lobongo Phool (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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Could not find any reliable third party coverage....  << FR (mobileUndo) 08:02, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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  • Comment nominator has been blocked for sock puppetry --DannyS712 (talk) 02:04, 21 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete. Sandstein 08:33, 26 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Clem Bastow[edit]

Clem Bastow (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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also Clementine (Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs· FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Non-notable journalist. This article is only linked to from a few pages, and is not substantially connected to any of them. Euchrid (talk) 02:40, 12 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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  • Comment Still thinking about this one and still looking. As well as the awards listed in the article there is also this one. The subject is definitely prolific, and is extensively published by multiple very well respected multi media outlets, so certainly has a high level of professional standing. However, there is very little independent material about her that I can find so far. Does not have to pass either JOURNALIST or ENTERTAINER (comedian) individually if overall they pass GNG. They may already pass AUTHOR? Aoziwe (talk) 11:10, 12 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment The lack of incoming links and-or their qualtiy, while a flag, is in no way definitive regarding notability. Aoziwe (talk) 11:14, 12 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was speedy keep. Nominator is a blocked sockpuppet. No other delete votes. (non-admin closure) Atlantic306 (talk) 20:44, 23 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Md Moazzem Hossain[edit]

Md Moazzem Hossain (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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Besides one indepth report [34] there is little else to justify this individuals inclusion in the encyclopedia.  << FR (mobileUndo) 06:06, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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  • Comment nominator has been blocked for sock puppetry --DannyS712 (talk) 02:04, 21 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was speedy keep. Nomination withdrawn. (non-admin closure) — MarkH21 (talk) 05:51, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Arthur Rubin[edit]

Arthur Rubin (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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Article survived an AfD from 2006 based on the fact that his Erdős number is 1, that he graduated from Caltech, and that he was a 4-time Putnam winner. The subject doesn't seem to meet WP:PROF standards though (winning the Putnam is excluded by the notes in Criterion 2) and also seems to fail WP:GNG (there is the referenced 1974 Madison Capital Times article but not much else). The fact that he may have been the youngest Putnam winner itself doesn't grant notability (prodigies would typically qualify by WP:GNG). — MarkH21 (talk) 05:42, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

  • Withdrawal: I realized that I did not read the sixth AfD carefully enough to see the articles suggesting that the subject (perhaps barely) passes WP:GNG. I'd like to withdraw this AfD and apologize for wasting any editors' time in looking at this. I'll also go ahead and try to add those sources in to avoid — MarkH21 (talk) 05:46, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was no consensus. There is clearly a lot of news coverage about him, but the question of whether that coverage fails WP:ROUTINE and whether WP:ROUTINE even applies in this case have not been settled. Bearcat presents a convincing argument, but it is true that WP:ROUTINE is part of Wikipedia:Notability (events) and Wikipedia:Notability (people) makes no mention of the word "routine" (except in an irrelevant footnote about IMDb), and it is preferable to settle the matter in an RfC than simply picking a winner in a single AfD. In any case, assuming that WP:ROUTINE does apply I think there are equally strong arguments on both sides over whether he passes the bar. King of ♠ 06:43, 26 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Wink Hartman[edit]

Wink Hartman (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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Subject is merely a failed candidate for public office; thus fails WP:NPOL. Not notable due to little coverage (most is just passing mentions, being the running mate of the controversial Kris Kobach); thus fails WP:GNG.

WP:BEFORE complete: nothing found. ––Redditaddict69 (talk) (contribs) 21:54, 11 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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  • Redirect to 2010_United_States_House_of_Representatives_elections_in_Kansas#District_4. Best, GPL93 (talk) 22:09, 11 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Nom Comment - support redirect to 2018 Kansas gubernatorial election. ––Redditaddict69 (talk) (contribs) 22:12, 11 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep simply clicking on the "news" reference above shows an significant amount of coverage, more than enough to pass the general notability guideline.--Paul McDonald (talk) 12:55, 12 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep When I created this article, my newspapers.com account had lapsed. There's more in there, For instance this from 2012, this from 2011, a small reference in 2007, and many more that I don't have time to link now. – Muboshgu (talk) 18:00, 12 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • @Muboshgu: @Paulmcdonald: Note that almost all coverage is run of the mill and routine coverage for election candidates. ––Redditaddict69 (talk) (contribs) 21:53, 12 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • I disagree with that assessment for a number of reasons, but here's two: 1) WP:MILL is an essay, and that is outranked by WP:GNG which is a key guideline. There is no passage of WP:GNG that WP:MILL can invalidate. 2) WP:ROUTINE applies to events and this is an article about a person so that doesn't even apply. If you'd like, I can list several more reasons but these should suffice.--Paul McDonald (talk) 00:07, 13 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete and/or redirect. Firstly, WP:ROUTINE most certainly does still apply to articles about people, not just articles about events — kindly note that if you actually read it, it does explicitly provide examples that pertain to the notability of people involved in events: wedding announcements, crime logs, tabloid journalism, etc. So just because it's in the notability statement on events doesn't mean it's inapplicable just because the article's topic happens to be a person — ROUTINE is still a consideration, because his potential notability claim derives from his participation in an event.
    Secondly, there is an established consensus that when it comes to non-winning political candidates, they are not automatically deemed to pass WP:GNG just because some campaign coverage exists, because some campaign coverage always exists for every candidate in every election — so if "some campaign coverage exists" were all it took to get a candidate over GNG in lieu of having to pass NPOL, then NPOL would be worthless because nobody would ever actually have to pass it at all anymore. Rather, getting a candidate over GNG requires one of two things: either evidence that they already cleared GNG for other reasons that would already have gotten them an article anyway, such as preexisting notability in another field of endeavour, or they got so much more coverage than every other candidate also got that they've got credible grounds to be deemed special (e.g. because their coverage nationalizes well beyond where it would simply be expected to exist.) But neither of those things are in evidence here at all: there's no credible evidence that he would have already gotten over a notability standard for other reasons independent of the candidacy, and there's not nearly enough campaign coverage being shown to deem him more special than every other candidate who got the same amount of local coverage as this. Bearcat (talk) 17:31, 13 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • Sorry, but WP:ROUTINE is a link to the page Wikipedia:Notability (events). Therefore, it applies to "events" and not "people" -- there is a separate guideline at Wikipedia:Notability (people) that applies to this article about a person. I find that the subject passes the sub-guidelines WP:BASIC as well as WP:POLITICIAN which states "Just being an elected local official, or an unelected candidate for political office, does not guarantee notability, although such people can still be notable if they meet the general notability guideline." -- meaning that the subject doesn't automatically get granted notability, but if the subject does pass WP:GNG, then that is enough to be considered notable. That's the case here.--Paul McDonald (talk) 18:37, 13 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry, but as I explicitly and correctly pointed out, ROUTINE explicitly includes content pertaining to the notability of people involved in events — the fact that the article's title happens to refer to a person rather than an event does not change the fact that the person's notability claim derives from an event, and hence ROUTINE is still a factor in whether he's notable enough for an article or not. And as I explicitly and correctly pointed out, every candidate in every election always gets some local campaign coverage — so candidates do not automatically clear GNG just because a smattering of local campaign coverage exists, because if they did then every candidate would always clear GNG and NPOL would have no meaning or weight at all anymore. So the notability test for a non-winning political candidate is not just that some local campaign coverage exists, it is that the campaign coverage expands significantly beyond what every candidate in every election can always show, such as by nationalizing far beyond just the local media. I'm wrong about exactly none of what I said. Bearcat (talk) 20:42, 14 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I don't believe that is correct interpretation because the second paragraph of the essay states "This notability guideline for events reflects consensus reached through discussions and reinforced by established practice, and informs decisions on whether an article about past, current, and breaking news events should be written, merged, deleted or further developed." And paragraph 3 (Section: Background) states: "This guideline was formed with the intention of guiding editors in interpreting the various pre-existing policies and guidelines that apply to articles about events..." Further, the essay makes multiple references to Wikipedia:Notability (people) specifically to refer editors to that article for matters about notability of people. The essay you reference seems to contradict your own point through its entire content. However--if you insist, then I will simply point out that the level of coverage includes feature articles which are clearly WP:NOTROUTINE, going way beyond the limits set in WP:ROUTINE of "announcements, sports, speculative coverage, and tabloid journalism" -- and therefore, once again, passes [[WP:GNG].--Paul McDonald (talk) 21:10, 14 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
if this is enough coverage to get a candidate over GNG, then every candidate in every election always gets over GNG and NPOL means absolutely nothing anymore, because every candidate always gets local media coverage by which a GNG claim can be attempted. So the test for getting a candidate over GNG is not and never has been just the fact that some campaign coverage exists in the local media of the place where they were running; it is that the coverage nationalizes far beyond the scale of what every candidate always gets, to the point that the candidate has a strong claim to being a special of significantly greater notability than most other candidates.
And if you feel strongly that my interpretation of ROUTINE is wrong, then you're more than free to propose that it be reworded to wipe out all the parts of ROUTINE which plainly indicate that it does apply to the standalone notability of people involved in events — as long as it says what it says, it stands alone as its own thing and is not invalidated just because other parts of the document address other things. Bearcat (talk) 15:04, 15 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Please quote any part of WP:ROUTINE "which plainly indicate that it does apply to the standalone notability of people involved in events" as you say. I also feel compelled to point out that this individual was the was on the Republican ticket for Lieutenant Governor of the State of Kansas (hardly indicative of "every" candidate in "every" election, and garnered 453,645 votes). Plus, there are sources in the article from 2010 to 2018, so it clearly isn't about "an event" at all but a person. --Paul McDonald (talk) 16:13, 15 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
per the recommendation above, I have requested comment at the talk pages of Wikipedia:Notability (people) and Wikipedia:Notability (events).--Paul McDonald (talk) 17:49, 15 March 2019 (UTC) [reply]
Its examples of what counts as routine coverage explicitly include things like wedding announcements and crime logs, specifically because people often attempt to use sources like that in Wikipedia as support for the notability of people. Nobody tries to write Wikipedia articles about weddings per se, but people regularly attempt to claim that the bride and/or the groom are notable enough for BLPs because the wedding announcement exists. People never try to write articles about "Charleston Street mugging, July 2018" as a notable "event", but they regularly attempt to use the local newspaper reporting about the mugging incident as support for using Wikipedia to name and shame the person who got arrested as the mugging suspect. This is what I'm talking about: ROUTINE does not only apply to "event" articles about events, but most certainly does also apply to the question of whether the people involved in those events are notable enough to warrant their own standalone biographical articles or not. The question of whether ROUTINE is relevant or not does not attach to the question of whether the article's title names a person or an event; it attaches to the question of what the article's body text is describing as the context of the topic's potential notability claim.
And no, even lieutenant governor is still not an office where candidacy confers an automatic notability freebie: the coverage still has to nationalize well beyond where it's merely expected to exist before a non-winning candidate clears the notability bar, even at the gubernatorial level. Even presidential candidates, in fact, aren't guaranteed articles just because they exist — even at that level, a non-winning candidate still has to show a broad range of quality coverage, that still has to go well beyond mere technical verification of their candidacies, before they're notable enough to be exempted from having to pass NPOL by winning. Bearcat (talk) 18:26, 15 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I'll ask again: Please quote any part of WP:ROUTINE "which plainly indicate that it does apply to the standalone notability of people involved in events" as you say. I won't get drawn further into arguments that are not germane to the discussion (the article isn't sourced by a wedding announcement or crime log).--Paul McDonald (talk) 19:24, 15 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The fact that ROUTINE's own stated examples of how it applies explicitly cite types of coverage that pertain to people is in and of itself inherent proof that ROUTINE does apply to people. It doesn't have to explicitly say that it applies to people if its examples of what it means are examples of it applying to people. "Wedding announcements" and "crime logs" are examples, being cited in a "including but not limited to" way, so the fact that this article isn't sourced by a wedding announcement or a crime log is irrelevant to the matter anyway. Bearcat (talk) 19:49, 21 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
If that were true, it would be no problem to provide simply one of these explicit examples as I have requested. Third and final ask: Please quote any part of WP:ROUTINE "which plainly indicate that it does apply to the standalone notability of people involved in events"--Paul McDonald (talk) 21:04, 21 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
FYI-Referenced below, Wikipedia talk:Notability (people)/Archive 2019 shows that there is no consensus among the community on this issue.--Paul McDonald (talk) 22:21, 25 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
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  • Weak Delete/Redirect: The only notability criteria that the subject has a chance of passing is WP:GNG/WP:BASIC (which we must remember also gives a presumption of notability and not a guarantee). In this case, the 2012 CNBC article constitutes significant coverage by a reliable secondary independent source. The other given sources are entirely coverage of his runs for congressional and gubernatorial office by local news outlets. This does fall into the spirit of WP:ROUTINE. Indeed, countless individuals who run for political office garner coverage from local news outlets specifically about their campaigns but should fail notability for lack of anything else and that should similarly apply to the local coverage for this article. Nevertheless, the subject's involvement in industry and entertainment may provide some other sources that will demonstrate notability (there seems to be a lot of sources with passing mentions of the subject but I haven't found one with significant coverage on him outside of his two political campaigns). — MarkH21 (talk) 08:51, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • Question: in your review of this, did you consider any of this coverage: US News and World Report; Washington Times; Inside Indiana Business; Indianapolis Business Journal; US News and World Report; Indianapolis Star; the Economist; Forbes; Auto Week; USA Today; -- Some are passing mentions, some are feature articles, and all are significant-independent-third party and even national coverage of the subject. I intentionally left out any listing of source inside of Kansas as well as Kansas City, Missouri and the list is far from complete. There is absolutely nothing that is "routine" about this coverage. No wedding announcements; no tabloid journalism; no sports scores; no crime logs; no sports matches; no film premieres; no press conferences; no bear-in-a-tree or local-person-wins-award stories. The surpassing of the general notability guideline is considerable (if not "colossal").--Paul McDonald (talk) 11:37, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
      • Yes, basically every one of those is a passing mention (i.e. trivial coverage as opposed to routine coverage). They don’t look like significant coverage of the subject. Also note that some of those articles are identical to each other and not intellectually independent (per WP:BASIC). The Forbes article might be on the edge though... it’s three sentences about him. Pretty on the fence though. — MarkH21 (talk) 18:21, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
        • I give up. If the closer of this discussion can't tell the difference between a wedding announcement and a feature article; or can't tell the difference between an event and a person; or can't understand how someone who has references in reliable third party sources at a local, regional, and national level that span 8-9 years; or thinks that thousands of articles of coverage for a candidate of a major party for Lieutenant Governor who managed nearly half a million votes is simply "routine", then do as you will.--Paul McDonald (talk) 19:12, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Redirect to 2018 Kansas gubernatorial election (if the consensus is that this race is the most notable event the subject was a part of) or Delete (because there are multiple potential redirect targets). My sense is that the community generally agrees with the concept of passing coverage for multiple activities does not equal notability under WP:GNG. The subject was chosen by Kris Kobach's for Lieutenant Governor in 2019, but the ticket did not win the election. The sources provided by Paul McDonald contain only passing mentions of the subject - the Forbes article listed above contains this line about the subject: "Shortly before the 2008 Indy 500, Hartman was watching ESPN when he heard the story of Fisher’s attempt to qualify, but a sponsor’s check did not arrive. Hartman recognized her plight and wired the money that she needed to compete" The vast majority of the Forbes article is about Sarah Fisher. All this said, there is not one redirect target that makes the most sense. Valid redirect targets could additionally include 2010_United_States_House_of_Representatives_elections_in_Kansas#District_4 (failed to advance to the general election), Sarah Fisher Hartman Racing (not currently named in the article, but mentioned in many news articles), or theoretically Hartman Oil Co (not created, owner and primary occupation).
Changed to Keep per the CNBC article found by user Otr500. The one thing that was missing from my searches was a second article that featured the subject - and there is no question in my mind that the CNBC article meets that criteria. Passes WP:GNG. --Enos733 (talk) 16:12, 20 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Comments: DYK, Even the racing mention can be covered elsewhere. Wink, as well as Sarah Fisher, are currently former owners. Wink (a Republican) might have offered financial assistance after news reports of Hillary Clinton (a Democrat) visited the team in 2008. Fisher was in trouble as a sponsor failed to deliver, and Hartman sent her money. It became officially became CFH Racing for one season in 2015. Hartman must have been only a sponsor from 2008 to 2015? Hartman pulled out for the 2016 season and the team became Ed Carpenter Racing. We have articles that have wrong or misleading information and we propagate that Hartman is a current owner (He co-owns Sarah Fisher Hartman Racing) when this is not true. Sarah Fisher Hartman Racing (SFR) "is an auto racing team founded in January 2008", would now be outdated so the lead should state: "was an auto racing team", because Hartman pulled out, and is now Ed Carpenter Racing. Now we consider that Hartman is "notable" because he owns a team, and this almost made me change my mind, until I looked at it a little more. I can understand creating and keeping articles but surely there should be standards as advanced by policies and guidelines. "CFH Racing" (a start-class article) is covered under the history of Ed Carpenter Racing (also a start-class article) and it would seem that instead two of these start-class articles they could be merged to one better article. My point is that the subject, Wink Hartman, does not currently own a racing team, and did not when the article was created, so what is the consideration for adding to notability? Notability is not fleeting. The subject is not really notable for not winning any political office, he is was a short term owner of a racing team that likely does not give notability, so we add these non-notable things together to create notability? I can understand if we allow all rich people to have an article. That would at least give a criterion. Otr500 (talk) 14:58, 22 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Notability is not temporary. If he was notable before, nothing could happen to make him "un-notable" later. If the content of the article is out of date, that is simply an editing issue and not a deletion issue.--Paul McDonald (talk) 16:28, 22 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. Subject is notable-ish as owner and founder of several companies, and article is useful to readers, as subject was candidate for office in race with widespread coverage. -- econterms (talk) 23:41, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. Subject received significant coverage in multiple, reliable sources, and thus passes WP:GNG. Many of these are feature stories written about the man. Such coverage is the antithesis of WP:ROUTINE. Cbl62 (talk) 23:48, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion has been sidetracked on a lot of philosophical issues. Regardless of whether ROUTINE applies to biographies, the coverage here is far, far from routine. We have multiple, in-depth feature stories about Hartman, including major metropolitan dailies. This one in particular is a 1,500-plus word feature profile of Hartman in a national publication written years before his run for lieutenant governor: "A Wealthy Guardian Angel Lands at Indy 500" USA Today, 5/20/12. How can anyone honestly contend that such coverage is routine? Cbl62 (talk) 21:40, 21 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete: fails WP:BASIC / WP:NPOL; coverage is routine or passing mentions. K.e.coffman (talk) 00:51, 20 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete not notable as a politician, and his business activities do not rise to the level of being notable either.John Pack Lambert (talk) 04:10, 20 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete: Per users "K.e. coffman" and John Pack Lambert. There is only WP:ROUTINE coverage. I am not against a redirect (if the article is applicable) as long as a closer does not confuse that an agreement for "Redirect" is still an opinion that the article does not warrant stand alone status so is a defacto "deletion". While Wikipedia:Run-of-the-mill is an essay it is used to determine the quality and state of things such as sources and enjoys consensus by use. A source may be acceptable for content but not advance notability such as multiple uses of the same source or just plain normal news coverage such as A Wealthy Guardian Angel Lands at Indy 500. See comments below. Otr500 (talk) 14:39, 20 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep The argument given for keeping is, essentially, that the current consensus needs to be changed. I agree. There usually are sources. The sort of routine coverage that does not count are mere listings of results, , and reports of candidates speeches or positions are significant coverage. The effective of our rule has been to create an enormous incumbant advantage, which is taken overall, a violation of nPOV for the entire field. DGG ( talk ) 20:54, 20 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The incumbent advantage is a good point, but shouldn’t that be discussed at the talk page for WP:NPOL? The current consensus seems to rule against this particular article and that would need to be changed. — MarkH21 (talk) 02:02, 21 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • I'm going to provide one more point for keeping this article: the policy ignore all rules. Fifteen different articles (not including redirects, disambiguation pages, or non-article-pages) link to this article, and we typically create and keep articles for major political party candidates for lieutenant governor of a state in the US -- for example, John Doll (Kansas politician) has a page as the candidate for LG in Kansas in that same election as an independent, but also lost the election and only managed about 15% of the vote of the losing Republican ticket. Keeping the article looks better and helps Wikipedia to be more complete and well-rounded, thus making it better and meets the policy of Ignore All Rules. While the article may remain a stub, stub articles are okay.--Paul McDonald (talk) 22:18, 20 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Comment John Doll is a member of the Kansas Senate and passes WP:NPOL independently of the the 2018 election. --Enos733 (talk) 01:54, 21 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Comment @Paulmcdonald: Doll's article was created in 2006; 13 years ago, long before his gubernatorial candidacy alongside Greg Orman. Hartman's article was solely made due to his candidacy in 2018 which does not make him notable. That's what we're discussing here. ––Redditaddict69 (talk) (contribs) 13:46, 21 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Response The creation date of the article is of minor consequence as Wikipedia is not being built in an orderly fashion. Sources in the article go back to 2010.--Paul McDonald (talk) 15:32, 21 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Per WP:NOTIAR, keeping this article on those grounds would go against all other political candidate articles we have kept or deleted over the years, and basically be equivalent to a WP:ILIKEIT vote. SportingFlyer T·C 07:41, 25 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete Apart from the CNBC article, all of the coverage is WP:ROUTINE political coverage, or coverage that is to be expected of a political candidate. I do not see anything which would get him past the WP:GNG test we use for political candidates across the world, not just in the United States, meaning the person was either elected or received non-routine coverage, or coverage that goes above and beyond candidate announcements, endorsements, withdrawals, or routine local coverage. This was discussed during the recent United States campaign last year and did not pass. I also do not see notability on other, non-political grounds. SportingFlyer T·C 07:41, 25 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • Question can you please provide a link to this "WP:GNG test we use for political candidates across the world" ?? The words "politics" and "political" cannot be found on the page at WP:GNG.--Paul McDonald (talk) 12:26, 25 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Comments[edit]

  • Comments: We had a line break above by a relisting concerning WP:Routine that was argued against being used on this subject but a "keep" !vote did make the application. The "standalone notability of people involved in events", especially when sources are used on specific events to advance the notability of a subject, would certainly invoke the use when assessing a source. This type of discussion is more relevant in another area, however, I concur so unless further contested WP:ROUTINE can and has been used. When I looked at the article I see what I refer to as routine coverage of an event of a politician running for office. A person thinks about running for office (may run again) so it is reported, a person decides to run then withdraws, and so forth is routine coverage of a politician running for one or more offices (didn't continue for governor so now the Senate). It appears the subject is wealthy, maybe bored, or maybe just has enough money to have several businesses and to take the time to champion personal causes. Possibly the subject would like an article on Wikipedia. The can of worms| is the "wide-reaching consequences" that any person running for any office could be "considered" notable for an article if we don't consider a basic test: "For people, the person who is the topic of a biographical article should be "worthy of notice"or "note"—that is, "remarkable" or "significant, interesting, or unusual enough to deserve attention or to be recorded" within Wikipedia as a written account of that person's life.". If I counted correctly four sources are from "Kansas.com" (Wichita Eagle), two from "Kansascity.com" (The Kansas City Star), so are from two sources for any notability consideration. Some of the sources are plain routine news coverage good for content verification, he went to college, bought a racing team, ran for governor, possibly the Senate, picked as a running mate they apparently lost. I don't think the local or regional reporting rises to match the bar of notability for a stand alone article. Otr500 (talk) 14:39, 20 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Otr500: @Paulmcdonald: He hasn't made any major national publications (The KC Star can be considered one in some cases, but here it's obviously local news) so even if NPOL is disregarded, there may not even be enough for GNG. ––Redditaddict69 (talk) (contribs) 13:46, 21 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
There is nothing in WP:GNG that restricts consideration of coverage to only national publications.--Paul McDonald (talk) 15:30, 21 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The only keep !votes that I see with some substance is: WP:IGNORE with the supposition that it improves Wikipedia but this argument opens the door to allowing businessmen, that would not normally be considered for an article, to run for offices ---- lose ---- and get an article. If we agree to "significant coverage in multiple, reliable sources, and thus passes WP:GNG", we would really need to do away with any notability requirements, just go with WP:IGNORE, and allow all articles to exist. I examined the sources and "significant" is certainly subjective because two sources dominate this article (see above) and multiple uses of the same source count as one towards notability considerations. Since the subject is still alive and rich there will be more chances to become encyclopedia notable and maybe he can win.
Don't forget that using mundane coverage (calling it "significant") for a losing candidate opens the door for any person with local coverage to gain an article. I can start probably 50 in one town of 250,000, one television station, and four newspapers. If the AP wire picks it up it will be several newspapers covering the same subject. My favorite "keep" above would be "notable-ish". We could add that to changes allowing everyone everywhere to have an article. I support this if I get one.
Normal state elected officers, that might not usually get an article, can join all the ones that ran and lost where there was "significant local coverage". Why stop at a losing Governor or Lt. Governor? Pretty much anyone can provide coverage for every position in a state government and all state representatives that lose will certainly deserve an article. All it would take would be multiple reporting of the same coverage in three sources. My weatherman has more than that. Where is the line? There are other pretend encyclopedias out there that don't have the requirements we have so we can digress to that level. Wikipedia has started to become more trustworthy on articles and maybe that is a bad thing?
I still like the beginning ground test: "For people, the person who is the topic of a biographical article should be "worthy of notice" or "note"—that is, "remarkable" or "significant, interesting, or unusual enough to deserve attention or to be recorded" within Wikipedia as a written account of that person's life.". Otr500 (talk) 14:59, 21 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I also think that Wikipedia:Notability (people) is the best standard.--Paul McDonald (talk) 15:30, 21 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • No consensus ruling on Routine The idea of "routine coverage" serving either inclusively or exclusively for a political candidate was discussed extensively at Wikipedia talk:Notability (people)/Archive 2019 -- this "centralized discussion" which appears to have a much higher volume of involvement resulted with "no consensus whether or not routine election coverage suffices for Wikipedia:Notability." This seems to refute or at least negate any delete position referencing the "routine" coverage argument. At least one of the editors in this discussion was also in that discussion.--Paul McDonald (talk) 22:18, 25 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • I appreciate you vigorously pushing for this to be kept, but unfortunately there's a logical flaw in your argument suggesting that discussion negates delete !votes in this discussion. As the closer noted, the options in that RfC were in itself flawed to the point where someone "supported both." The "no consensus" close means nothing changed as a result of the RfC, not that we're bound by some new rule, and that everything is still status quo. If we were to accept your interpretation of "no consensus," that would be potentially similar to having option B as the "winner" in the RfC (though, in my opinion, Option B was not well worded and could technically be a status quo argument.) In political AfD discussions, the "status quo" looks at someone's notability in light of the fact many politicians and political hopefuls exist around the world, trivial coverage of politicians exists, and determining whether the coverage is trivial/routine, or significant is an exercise for the !voter. SportingFlyer T·C 03:54, 26 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with SportingFlyer in how the AfD should be interpreted - in that there was no consensus to change how the community treats unelected candidates under WP:NPOL, which I think is captured pretty well in WP:POLOUTCOMES. --Enos733 (talk) 05:06, 26 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was no consensus. King of ♠ 06:23, 26 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

No. 6207; A Study in Steel[edit]

No. 6207; A Study in Steel (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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No evidence of any notability in article or online. Fram (talk) 14:20, 4 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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  • Comment. Looking at online sources, the subject of the article has received coverage from Hackaday ([35]), Silodrome ([36]), The Old Motor ([37]), and has an entry with the British Film Institute ([38]). Looking at book sources, the film was reviewed and discussed in the books Railways in the Cinema by John Huntley (p. 96) and Volume 28 of the London and North Eastern Railway Magazine (p. 145). According to Google Books, the film is also mentioned in other books that I don't have access to. For a film from 1935, offline sources are also likely to exist. MarkZusab (talk) 23:21, 4 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you user:MarkZusab for your kind explanation. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tony May (talk • contribs)
The two Google book links are passing mentions. The other three diffs look like personal websites / blogs to me (but I may be wrong about these, feel free to inform me better). The BFI lists (or tries to list) every film made in Britain, it is not an indication of notability (just like a national library collects and documents every book, pamphlet, ... from a country. Fram (talk) 08:06, 5 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep It's well-known in two domains of interest: both film-making (and the British mid-century documentary tradition) and also railway history. Andy Dingley (talk) 16:43, 5 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • All sources but the BFI seem to be from "railway history" (with doubts about the reliability of the indepth sources), so what's the evidence that it is well known in the film making domain? Fram (talk) 17:21, 5 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
As you have already decided to rule out the BFI as RS (!), there seems to be little point in discussing anything with you. Fortunately this isn't your decision to make.
This is better known through the railway community, that's certainly true. In fact, it's sometimes described in film histories as a 1968 film, by the better-known British Transport Films unit and Peter Hopkinson gets credited as having written it. It was re-released with BR / BTF branding in 1968 and I think some of the narration text was changed. An oddly anachronistic re-release anyway, with BR torn between crediting the LMS (which disappeared 20 years earlier) and the loco itself (with the withdrawal of steam that same year).
But if you look through histories of British documentary film for the 'Grierson era' you should find plenty. There's a newish (couple of years ago) big thick history of such by James Chapman, New History of British Documentary and I expect that would be a good source. Andy Dingley (talk) 18:33, 5 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
It's a very good source to strengthen my delete opinion. "6207" doesn't appear in this book apparently... Fram (talk) 19:45, 5 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry, but searching the Belgian copy of Google books, on a book that's still in copyright (and so the whole text isn't there) is the same thing as reading the book? Andy Dingley (talk) 19:57, 5 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oh, of course - this is about ANI, isn't it? Makes sense now. So anything I say here, you're just going to disagree anyway. Sorry, I hadn't recognised the names. Andy Dingley (talk) 20:00, 5 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Or you could, you know, for example state the page(s) where the book has info on this documentary? That would be more helpful than unwarranted snark. In what way is this AfD supposedly about ANI? Oh, and I didn't rule out the BFI as a reliable source, please don't make such unwarranted claims. It is a perfectly reliable source, but it doesn't convey any notability, which is what this discussion is about after all. Fram (talk) 20:10, 5 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Vanamonde (Talk) 14:56, 11 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep, due to the age of the film, the google approach is not effective. I would go to the text books as there would be sufficient info in it there. Looking online though, there is quite a lot of interest in this film. That's a very good indicator. I think John Watt did some other documentaries as well. Karl Twist (talk) 14:14, 16 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • Can you please provide the sources you base this opinion on? Or perhaps any indication why for most old films, you can find plenty of information through Google, but for this one, the "Google approach" suddenly is not effective? Fram (talk) 08:13, 18 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak delete - I really wanted to vote keep but can't find any sourcing that suggests this film was in any way notable. Despite its age, there would be coverage if it were notable, and as pointed out above it seems to have been rereleased in 1968, to little fanfare. It appears to just be a short ad created by the railway company as a vanity project. The only info I could find that wasn't mentioned above is [[39]], which while it has more info about the film, the name of the site suggests it's self-publishing and therefore unreliable. I couldn't find that article on any other site that isn't reader controlled. There's so little info here anyway, I wouldn't be opposed if someone wanted to redirect this to LMS Princess Royal Class#Details, which at least mentions the film, albeit with an unsourced mention, calling it "classic". A link to the film on YouTube is also in the external links section of the LMS article. TimTempleton (talk) (cont) 23:09, 18 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
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The result was delete. King of ♠ 06:22, 26 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Alvin Xan Juice[edit]

Alvin Xan Juice (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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Non-notable musician, created by a paid editor. This was previously moved to draft-space for improvement and review, but the author moved it back without any discussion. A search turns up nothing that meets WP:NMUSIC or WP:BASIC, and the article currently contains no reliable sources at all. Bradv🍁 05:06, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I really do not understand what kind of reliable source you are looking for but I have laid down a whole lot of resources am even tired of reviewers trying to knock me down but will always be back at my feet. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Alvinwebster (talk • contribs) 05:26, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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  • I understood the whole article and I think it must not be deleted. As you can see for yourselves, there are reliable resources. The article creator might be right. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.113.115.246 (talk) 06:13, 19 March 2019 (UTC) — 41.113.115.246 (talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. Richard3120 (talk) 13:37, 20 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete. This article is about an upcoming rapper that has not yet met any of the guidelines for inclusion set out at WP:MUSICBIO. He may become notable in the future but at present it is too soon to have an article. The author of the article is claiming that the sources in the article are enough to prove notability, but none of these are anywhere near to being classed as reliable sources. — sparklism hey! 11:59, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete he's not notable and I think "upcoming" is even a stretch. There's not a single RS even mentioning him and it's promotional. (Side note, I asked the creator to go through AFC given this is a paid piece.) Praxidicae (talk) 12:36, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete - No independent reliable sources. Bimba, Genius, and Audiomack are user submitted. This does not look like paid editing to me. It looks like an autobiography. Bittreddd isn't really a music news site. It's a site on a do-it-yourself web building site where the subject has tried to puff himself up by writing articles about himself. The material that looks like real news articles have been copied form real news. See this example of a byline credit of "BY THEMBALETHU". It's actually been copied from AFP. The subject can't even make up his mind on his rapper name having switched from Tripp SCott to the current moniker. -- Whpq (talk) 19:25, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was speedy deleted by Athaenara as G11. (non-admin closure) GeoffreyT2000 (talk) 19:13, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Mohamad Tiregar[edit]

Mohamad Tiregar (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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Deprodded by the article's creator, but absolutely zero notability as per WP:GNG and WP:NACTOR. Onel5969 TT me 03:32, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Delete doesn't show notability or GNG. One reference is to another Wikipedia, another is to what looks like a very short description of him. Having IMDB doesn't mean anything. A lot of articles are deleted despite IMDB being referenced. Please see Wikipedia:Citing IMDb. HickoryOughtShirt?4 (talk) 04:14, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • checkY :More than 20 films have played.
  • checkY :Instagram a plus de 300 000 fans. La réputation de cette personne est très claire (Mohamad Tiregar)
@خدای: WP:GNG means they have significant coverage in reliable sources independent of the subject. Can you show newspaper or website articles showing they pass this criteria? HickoryOughtShirt?4 (talk) 04:55, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@HickoryOughtShirt?4: Mohamad Tiregar on film ir portal google خدای (talk) 06:15, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@خدای: I must be missing something. This still doesn't show he meets GNG. For example, the first hit is this. Another hit is this. None of these are interviews, articles, or analysis of him or his work. HickoryOughtShirt?4 (talk) 06:21, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@HickoryOughtShirt?4: Mohamad Tiregar

Why do you insist that this person is not famous? Mohammad Tiregar teaser خدای (talk) 06:32, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Because he isn't Because he is not Notable per Wikipedia standards. Both pages you linked to do not show GNG. Wikipedia has certain criteria that must be followed when creating articles, otherwise it's just a free-for-fall. I suggest you look over WP:Notability and familiarize yourself with the content. HickoryOughtShirt?4 (talk) 06:35, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@HickoryOughtShirt?4: Instead of helping me to improve the article. You are trying to delete it. I'm really sorry خدای (talk) 06:45, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I can't help if he isn't notable. HickoryOughtShirt?4 (talk) 06:47, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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  • Speedy Delete as article previously deleted and salted as Mohammad Tiregar and Mohammad Tiregar (Actor). Choices have included A7, A11, and G5 by sockpuppet of globally locked editor Zahra 1369. Given the article creator's pattern of adding spaces to articles until autoconfirmed then dropping articles into the mainspace, going to bet on G5 here. Bakazaka (talk) 07:59, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - have opened a sock investigation, here. Thanks for the heads up Bakazaka. Onel5969 TT me 11:58, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Speedy delete created by a globally locked sock master. Praxidicae (talk) 13:54, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete. King of ♠ 06:21, 26 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Laura Kamrath[edit]

Laura Kamrath (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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Former child star with just one role-which the film does not even have a Wikipedia article (well kind of, it does have the actors from it who are notable linked to the novel), still not notable. (Another old page that is still around-this one from 2005!) Wgolf (talk) 03:06, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

  • Delete per nom. Only a single role in a not-particularly-well-known film does not suggest notability. --Metropolitan90 (talk) 04:03, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was redirect to Copypasta#Navy Seal. King of ♠ 06:20, 26 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Navy Seal copypasta[edit]

Navy Seal copypasta (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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Notability of this meme is questionable. Only significant coverage is sources like Know Your Meme that try to document every meme that comes along, and even the fact that it was included in the manifesto of the perpetrator of a recent mass shooting has only earned it passing mentions in reliable sources. I would support a redirect to Copypasta#Navy Seal. Ahecht (TALK
PAGE
) 02:45, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

  • Delete Lots of coverage in RS around this meme given recent events. After looking at a couple dozen reliable sources I found nothing deeper than a one sentence mention. This complete lack of signficant coverage suggests a lack of notability. Know your meme is frequently WP:UGC, though it looks like this entry was updated by the managing editor. Further concerns about the explicit naming and shaming of a now 16 year-old. Best, Barkeep49 (talk) 03:18, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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  • Delete per nom - GretLomborg (talk) 16:31, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete What did you say to me, you little... (KYM is probably the better repository for the history of dank may-mays.) Bkissin (talk) 17:48, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete: No reliable sources other than the Rolling Stone article, but even that only mentions the meme without any additional information. This kind of content is more suitable for KnowYourMeme. Laurent (talk) 19:13, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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  • Keep. Lots of mentions in RSs + some sources that go more into depth about origin and usage: [40] [41]. I don't see the problem here. But if that's not enough, then Merge into Copypasta. Ahiijny (talk) 15:36, 20 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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  • Merge to copypasta per Ahiijny. This isn't the first time it's been in the news, so it's not only covered in relation to recent events. There are barely enough sources to meet notability (recent ones seem to be mostly short mentions) but on balance it indicates that the content should be included somewhere, just maybe not in its own article. ansh666 18:06, 20 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete and redirect per nom. Regards, Ariconte (talk) 02:00, 21 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Merge to copypasta, also per Ahiijny. There are quite a few articles on notable memes, and it has been around and rather popular for years, though probably not popular enough for its own article. Nuew (talk) 05:36, 21 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete Obviously unencyclopedic Nick-D (talk) 09:03, 22 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep Many mentions in WP:RS: [42] [43] 79.168.3.237 (talk) 22:14, 22 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete as nonsense. At worst redirect to copypasta where there is a section on this, where the "main" link to this article would also need to be removed. It is sufficient that WP should have a link to such rubbish: it should not allow itself to become part of the problem! Peterkingiron (talk) 17:26, 24 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete. King of ♠ 06:15, 26 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

WICR (AM)[edit]

WICR (AM) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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Unlicensed part 15 station which fails WP:BROADCAST. Article does not contain sources independent from the article subject and the station is not covered in reliable sources to the level necessary for subject to pass WP:GNG. Tdl1060 (talk) 01:57, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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  • Delete: Agree with everything Tdl1060 said. I am impressed that WICR claims to broadcast in HD, since an AM broadcasting in HD would make it unlistenable to most of the public without HD radios. - NeutralhomerTalk • 17:12 on March 19, 2019 (UTC)
  • Delete: Unlicensed stations don't tend to get any presumed notability, and there isn't the requisite coverage in reliable sources to satisfy the general notability guideline. Yes, "WICR" may serve a neighborhood in New York City, and has apparently been around in some form since 1999, but without sources those aren't much help. --WCQuidditch 20:52, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete per nom, Homer and WC; not FCC-licensed, thus doesn't meet WP:BROADCAST (and I assume the "HD" claim is only for its webstream as iBiquity hasn't made HD Radio-compatible consumer transmitters available to the public and the pirate community hasn't reverse-engineered HD AM technology). Nate (chatter) 22:48, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete. Unlicensed radio stations are not handed an automatic presumption of notability just because their own self-published web presence technically verifies that they exist; they can still get into Wikipedia if they can be reliably sourced well enough to clear WP:GNG, but there's no evidence of that being shown. The article has also been edited in the past by "Wicram1620", which means there's some conflict of interest in the mix as well. Topics do not get into Wikipedia on the basis of what they claim about themselves; topics get into Wikipedia on the basis of having received media coverage in sources they didn't publish themselves. Bearcat (talk) 15:07, 20 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was merge to Meyer Malka. The "delete" !voters have not given a reason why a merge to the founder's article is not suitable, so that shall be the default result in this situation until and unless the founder's article is nominated for deletion. King of ♠ 06:19, 26 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Ribbit Capital (company)[edit]

Ribbit Capital (company) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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Fails WP:ORGCRIT requirement for sustained in-depth coverage. References are either interviews of principals (Coindesk) or brief mentions of routine financial transactions. The 2015 NYT piece has depth but is primarily about the CEO, not the company. ☆ Bri (talk) 01:33, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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  • Request: This article is in need of a major update. Ribbit has asked if I will propose one as a COI paid editor. The company now has quadrupled to $2 billion under management - |Ribbit Capital Exceeds $2 Billion in Assets Under Management With New Fund and has more "unicorns" (start ups with valuations > over $1 billion) than any other financial tech VC firm, by a large margin - | Ribbit, Index Lead Fintech Unicorn Hunters. I'd also note that 23 sources were deleted dif, since the approved draft moved into mainspace, describing in detail their many investments through mid-2016. These sources, although passing mentions, show sustained coverage up to that time. This type of consistent coverage has greatly intensified since then because the firm is 4x larger. There are also more significant sources, like the ones above. Since I can't do direct edits on the article because of COI, and Request Edits are frozen during an AfD (in practice, even if not policy). I'd make a special request to the nominating editor Bri and the only voter so far K.e.coffman that if both approve, one of you move this article into draft space so I can directly edit (highlighting proposed changes) and/or remove the AfD for 72 hours to let me submit a Talk page Request Edit ad have it reviewed. In my experience, voting editors only judge the article as it reads in mainspace. You can then immediately submit it to AfD again. If you aren't both in agreement, or I'm wrong about whether this is an acceptable practice, I'll add another note with partial new sourcing. Thanks. BC1278 (talk)
New and Sustained Significant Coverage: (Not yet in article because I can't directly edit) | Ribbit Capital Exceeds $2 Billion in Assets Under Management With New Fund (Wall Street Journal) (2018. Overview of firm); Ribbit, Index Lead Fintech Unicorn Hunters (CB Insights) (2018. Importance of Ribbit compared to other VCs in same sector, with Ribbit the most successful by the "unicorn" measurement; | Fintech investment powerhouse Ribbit Capital aims for $420 million with its latest fund (TechCrunch) (2018. In-depth profile of the firm, not an announcement; the firm did not comment for the story. Techcrunch is a Reliable Source, but with several cautions, such as whether the writer is a columnist or has a conflict of interest, Wikipedia: RSP. This story is an extensive analysis of the company, reported story, written by a staff reporter, not a contributor); Already in the story is |One Venezuelan’s Plan to Reinvent U.S. Financial Services (Ozy Magazine), an extended profile of firm founder interwoven with in-depth look at Ribbit Captal. Ozy (magazine) is a major international online publication backed by Laurene Powell Jobs.) In addition, to establish sustained coverage, there are also several dozen passing-mention stories, not establishing notability individually, but taken together, show its sustained activity (stories similar to the 23 removed sources noted above). The founder doesn't give many press interviews, so that discourages big feature stories, but the firm's huge foot print that is well tracked through publicly-disclosed investments.BC1278 (talk) 20:00, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@BC1278: TC coverage is in-depth. I'm getting 404 errors for the others you list above. ~Kvng (talk) 13:14, 21 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Kvng, fixed. Thanks!BC1278 (talk) 14:41, 21 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
MidwestSalamander (talk) 21:51, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete Typical branded/marketed articles, only here for the shareholders/investors, with usual refs that are very shallow, either reporting how much it raised in venture funding, or how much it has in assets. Article fails WP:NCORP, WP:ORGIND and WP:CORPDEPTH. scope_creepTalk 12:56, 20 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
and WP:ORGCRIT. scope_creepTalk 13:00, 20 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Add: The founder is not notable either, so I would oppose a merge. K.e.coffman (talk) 23:26, 20 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Of the references above, of the 5, 4 of them are from press releases as the language of the article is identical, as is the header names. Clearly the references are not sustained coverage. scope_creepTalk 14:46, 21 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was no consensus. Sandstein 08:32, 26 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Dante's[edit]

Dante's (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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This is just a relatively popular bar in Portland. It's well known to locals, but I don't feel like it meets our general notability guidelines and 90% of the contents in this article have absolutely nothing to do with the subject. Much of it is about the history building supported with numerous permit records from the building department form matters prior to the business in question opening. Graywalls (talk) 03:00, 9 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Add onto explanation. I checked sources. Overwhelming majority of references are in the Portland Mercury which is a paper known for publishing local events and where it's happening with each print like a calendar. So I don't think those counts as a "source". Ask locals and those familiar with the city will say yes. But you could compare that with going to a smaller town and ask people about a local hot spot. A large proportion will know "the spot" but this doesn't mean its really notable enough to justify a page here. Maybe on the local town wiki. I looked through edit history. Many made by the owner himself. I don't think you'd have to succumb down to pulling up a ton of irrelevant building permits from before the building even existed to try to save the page's existence if there was independently published sources to support notability. Anyways, this is what I searched: https://www.google.com/search?q=%22dante%27s%22+%22portland,+oregon%22&source=lnms&tbm=nws&sa=X

Graywalls (talk) 06:15, 9 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

add #2 these are accounts used for editing. Puppets or recruited by business. These have done most of the contribution that I suspect they are either puppets or employees adding their own page. Ffaillace (proprietor himself), Pspark (single purpose account), Elbuffer(SPA), AndersonC88900(SPA, minor amount)Graywalls (talk) 02:08, 10 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • comment (info only). But the two "yes" input in that notability talk lacks any actual discussion. For those not familiar on how consensus vs vote is approached here, you may wish to consult these policy/guideline/nutshell pages consensus and supplement to consensus guidelines to understand how you reach a position within the purview of our guidelines rather than a completely open ended personal opinion Graywalls (talk) 05:21, 13 March 2019 (UTC).[reply]
Additionally, "Consensus in many debates and discussions should ideally not be based upon number of votes, but upon policy-related points made by editors." from WP:MEATGraywalls (talk) 08:05, 14 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, none of this is new to me. I still vote keep. ---Another Believer (Talk) 19:55, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete. In 2007 there was a brief discussion on the talk page about notability and four people took part. I don’t think that carries any weight now. A fresh look shows that the sources for this article are local news, and the first references isn’t even about Dante’s, which just gets a passing mention. Every city in the world has dozens of clubs that meet the standard of notability shown in this article, but I hope they don’t all end up here. Mccapra (talk) 10:43, 9 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • @Mccapra: Is there a policy saying that local news sources can't attest to a subject's notability? I've seen this sentiment expressed at AfD before and it confuses me. The Oregonian, Willamette Week, etc. are reliable and independent—the fact that they're based in the same city as this establishment doesn't keep them from satisfying WP:GNG. Note: I'm not saying Dante's has received significant coverage in these sources. It just seems like you're saying, in general, that local sources can't establish notability, which I'd like some clarification about. Lord Bolingbroke (talk) 18:17, 10 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
      • It’s not as clear-cut as that. Notability is certainly more easily established by national press, and if a topic only has links to local press coverage, it’s more likely that the community will question its notability. See WP:AUD.
        • Thanks for the link. I hadn't read this portion of WP:ORG. Lord Bolingbroke (talk) 18:42, 10 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
          • It's not that it has zero presence in greater reaching articles. Even in the local scale, the only somewhat substantial coverage is in the alternative papers. I've checked out the sources referenced and even at the local scale, they were trivial or coincidental such as just happening to be the tenant of a unreinforced masonry building in which a large number of people use. If it was a daycare center there instead, it would be the name of daycare taking place of Dante's. When a handful of employees, or possibly the owner and his puppets are having to "stuff it" with a bunch of building permits, it likely means they're struggling to establish notability. I took those things into account when I nominated this. Both the Willamette Week and Portland Mercury are alternative papers which makes it different from a paper such as Portland Tribune. The coverage of this venue in the Oregonian, as far as I can tell, is trivial. Graywalls (talk) 22:55, 10 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. I can see how the current version of the article does not communicate the significance of the club. It needs work. However, there are in fact numerous references to the club's significance, over a period of 15+ years, in multiple news outlets. Here are some I found. I'll work on incorporating some of these into the article.
General significance:
  • "Berbati's Live," Oregonian, 2005. "Ash Street Saloon, Dante's, Satyricon and the Roseland form downtown's hard-rock heart,"
  • "Sound check notes from the Northwest music scene", Oregonian, 2008. Last of a collection of rock clubs from the early 2000s: "Dante's is the last of that batch still standing --and not just surviving but actively thriving." Coverage of its anniversary party, commentary on keys to its success.
  • COVER STORY "The queens of Portland's rock scene", Oregonian, 2006. Dante's noted as especially influential because the booker owns the venue.
  • "Jack London Revue picks up where Jimmy Mak’s left off," Oregonian, 2017. Faillace's ownership of Dante's noted in review of new Portland club. See also Willamette Week coverage from 2016, and similar story from 2015.
  • Oregonian articles frequently quote Faillace as owner of Dante's for his opinion on music acts such as "The Monday Profile: Andre Temkin" (2007).
  • A number of 2019 articles (e.g. KOIN, Portland Tribune highlight Dante's alongside the Crystal Ballroom and Keller Auditorium as examples of the "dozens" of venues potentially affected by proposed seismic regulations.
  • Willamette Week 2012: Dantes' "hallowed pizza window"
Significant role in launching career of Storm Large. Reported in publications from Massachusetts to Hawaii, from 2003 to 2017.
  • "TAKE COVER -- IT'S STORM LARGE," Oregonian, 2003
  • "CRAZY FOR MUSIC - Chanteuse Storm Large brings her brash brand of cabaret to SLO Brew on Monday", The [San Luis Obispo] Tribune, 2012: "Frank Faillace, owner of the Portland night club Dante's, persuaded her to return to performing" (and Dante's is where she performed many times over many years)
  • "5 things to know about Storm Large," The Republican, Springfield, Mass. (2017)
  • "The Queen of Dark Cabaret: Storm Large puts on a spellbinding show" West Hawaii Today (2017)
The "Karaoke from Hell" band, with its multi-decade run at Dante's, is often referred to as one of Portland's unique entertainment offerings.
  • "In Portland, city of musicians, wannabe musicians and music fanatics . . . Karaoke is king Karaoke: Making dreams come true" Oregonian 2009: "Few places showcase that better than Dante's Karaoke From Hell on Monday nights."
  • "Krazy for karaoke!" Oregonian 2008. "Come Monday night, it's time for Karaoke From Hell, which draws a wild variety of deceptively mild-mannered middle-agers, outrageously attired cross-dressers and everybody in between to take turns singing with a live band onstage at Dante's."
-Pete Forsyth (talk) 19:21, 9 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
comment I haven't checked every one of the sources you mentioned. I have reviewed a handful along with WP:ORG. Happening to be the occupant of one of many unreinforced masonry buildings in Portland in articles about buildings, not the organization. This is a mention in passing. Berbati Being Sold to Owners of Dante's and XV and In Wake of Jimmy Mak's Closure, New Jazz Club Will Open in Basement of Rialto See inherited/inherent notability section. Future Drinking: Is Lonesome's Pizza Coming to Dante's? This is trivial mention in an article about the new happenings of what's opening up where. Graywalls (talk) 03:29, 10 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
sorry i'm adding things in multiple sections. I'm working on it in bits as time allows. Chicago Reader The coverage relating to Dante's is minimal and it establishes that it was the venue she frequently used, but: "An organization is not notable merely because a notable person or event was associated with it". Storm interview reads "Tired of the club scene, she moved to Portland to pursue a new career as a chef, but a last minute cancellation in 2002 at the Portland club “Dante’s” turned into a standing Wednesday night engagement for Storm and her new band, The Balls", but again, it's not about Dante's. The one coverage in Willamette Week, an alternative media that is partially or about 50% about Dante's. Graywalls (talk) 08:48, 10 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I want to remind everyone that an article about a business does not have to meet WP:ORG if it meets WP:GNG, and that the whole article does not have to be about an outfit to be significant coverage, sometimes even a phrase can count towards WP:SIGCOV. But I am leaning delete on this one at this point.E.M.Gregory (talk) 18:10, 11 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I'm reading WP:ORGCRIT "A company, corporation, organization, group, product, or service is notable if it has been the subject of significant coverage in multiple reliable secondary sources that are independent of the subject. These criteria, generally, follow the general notability guideline with a stronger emphasis on quality of the sources to prevent gaming of the rules by marketing and public relations professionals. The guideline, among other things, is meant to address some of the common issues with abusing Wikipedia for advertising and promotion. As such, the guideline establishes generally higher requirements for sources that are used to establish notability than for sources that are allowed as acceptable references within an article.". So this appears to mean it's WP:GNG with more rigorous requirements.Graywalls (talk) 19:07, 11 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@E.M.Gregory:, can you comment?Graywalls (talk) 05:47, 12 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete Routine local coverage of a generic local venue does not meet significant coverage requirements. The city's alt-weeklies naturally have regular articles reviewing bars, restaurants, and nightclubs and mentioning their business changes, but someone calling their staff sexy is not grounds for notability. Are all ten of the city's top pizza slices notable because they were mentioned in the local newspaper that happens to be Oregon's largest? Notability is not inherited from singers/bands that performed there before they went on a reality show. Reywas92Talk 19:43, 11 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete fails WP:SIGCOV.E.M.Gregory (talk) 11:17, 13 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep This article is describing a place, and has multiple sources (some more reliable than others), but generally still seems notable and worthy of inclusion in Wikipedia. — Preceding unsigned comment added by EggRoll97 (talk • contribs) 15:47, 16 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, King of ♠ 01:17, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. PeteForsyth's survey of coverage combined with E.M.Gregory's reminders about how sourced information is essentially "additive" makes me lean towards keep, even though it's a clearly marginal case. Orgs are different than BLP also- where "people in the news" often hit against BLP1E, there isn't the same bias towards privacy necessary for orgs. tedder (talk) 15:36, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • A whole bunch of snippets and trivial coverage in local papers don't stack up together to substitute a in-depth coverage in national or regional papers. I've inquired deeper into the dialogue with E.M.Gregory above by talking about it on a policy talk page to determine applicability. I feel that there's an agreement that WP:ORG is an additional layer above and beyond WP:GNG as a measure to safeguard against manipulation and exploitation "marketing and public relations professionals" to quote the policy documentation. Additional requirements here aren't for privacy, it's to safeguard against promotional articles. Please see the discussion on this talk Graywalls (talk) 18:22, 20 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I understand you feel that way. You've made it clear by replying to every discussion on this AFD, on the talk page, in the edits, on user talk pages, and so on. tedder (talk) 20:03, 20 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • @Tedder:I'd like to see your side of interpret of the combination of those two policies as applied to this article if you happen to differ. Graywalls (talk) 04:28, 21 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Revisiting, I have just looked at each source in the article, which editors have worked on intensely during this discussion. While I continue to maintain that WP:GNG suffice to keep a restaurant/club article, the coverage of Dante's is not even close to meeting either WP:GNG or WP:ORG.E.M.Gregory (talk) 10:14, 22 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was keep. WP:SNOW and WP:RAPID. Wait a week before renominating if you really still feel it's not notable. King of ♠ 04:24, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

2019 Utrecht shooting[edit]

2019 Utrecht shooting (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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AfD by 97.118.129.179 (talk · contribs · WHOIS): This is a clear case of WP:NOTNEWS. MrClog (talk) 01:07, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - I personally oppose deleting it, as per WP:RAPID, which states:

Articles about breaking news events—particularly biographies of participants—are often rapidly nominated for deletion. As there is no deadline, it is recommended to delay the nomination for a few days to avoid the deletion debate dealing with a moving target and to allow time for a clearer picture of the notability of the event to emerge, which may make a deletion nomination unnecessary. Deletion discussions while events are still hot news items rarely result in consensus to delete. There may be alternatives to deletion, such as merging or reworking the article so that it conforms with policy, for example, by rewriting an article about a person known only for one event to be about the event. Other alternatives to deletion while the story develops are userfying or incubating the article in draftspace.

This is a clear case of RAPID and we should definitely wait a few days. MrClog (talk) 01:10, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak keep as the events are still ongoing, may further discuss I'd this meets WP:GNG or not few days later. --B dash (talk) 01:21, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. This easily passes notability requirements. A mass shooting in which 3 people were killed inside a busy city tram, followed by the killer fleeing. There was major disruption and restrictions prior to the suspect being arrested. There has been a great deal of coverage by the mainstream international media. Even if no terrorist link is found, it's a major event with lasting significance. This is Europe's worst crime of 2019 and won't quickly be forgotten. Jim Michael (talk) 01:27, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. I agree with the person quoting WP:RAPID that it's too early at this stage to consider a deletion. Also, this is a notable subject, especially in a Dutch context (low crime rate, shootings are rare), and so far the article looks pretty good to me. --Spooners21 (talk) 01:27, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak keep I agree this is ongoing and if more turns up could be much more or not. ContentEditman (talk) 01:30, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong delete This is a clear case of WP:NOTNEWS. Much of the content and apparent notability stems from reports speculating that this may have been a terrorist attack, which it no longer appears to have been. Wikipedia is not a newspaper and has no obligation to report on every mass shooting that happens, even those covered by the press at rapid fire. 97.118.129.179 (talk) 01:24, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep Wait. Per Wikipedia:Notability (events)#Inclusion criteria, "Editors should bear in mind recentism, the tendency for new and current matters to seem more important than they might seem in a few years time. Many events receive coverage in the news and yet are not of historic or lasting importance."
That remains to be seen in this case. A lot will turn on whether it is an out-of-control domestic violence incident, as some reports suggest, in which case it may quickly fade from history with little or no trace, or a terror event, in which case it will have lasting historical importance, at least in The Netherlands. --Anthonyhcole (talk · contribs · email) 01:39, 19 March 2019 (UTC) Changed to keep. --Anthonyhcole (talk · contribs · email) 02:09, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Major violence at a public place in which most of the victims are strangers is not usually considered domestic violence. Even if this had happened in the killer's house & all the victims were related to him, it would still be notable enough for an article. Jim Michael (talk) 02:00, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. Notable event, Definately keep article. I cannot understand the rush to want to delete it. Whilst I'm not comfortable with these type of events being given quite so much media attention, it seems very clear that it is a highly unusual notable incident in the dutch context, even if hindsight may teach us that it was notable for being an over-reaction, or perhaps too quickly labelled a terrorist incident. I very very rarely edit wikipedia (so please forgive any newbie format errors here) but as a daily/hourly wikipedia reader I've found that articles like these give important clarity & conciseness that I often can't find elsewhere. Surely these sort of articles will be very helpful for future research. I've worked all my adult life in UK media, now living in NL. MVG / Thanks 77.163.66.189 (talk) 02:12, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep see no reason why this article doesn't meet WP:GNG. --158.182.178.117 (talk) 03:42, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. King of ♠ 06:15, 26 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Rhoda Montemayor[edit]

Rhoda Montemayor (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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Does not meet WP:GNG or WP:NACTRESS. Cannot find third-party source for the actress. Only major claim to fame is Power Rangers Operation Overdrive. Had been tagged with {{notability}} since June 2017. Tyw7 (🗣️ Talk) — If (reply) then (ping me) 00:55, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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