The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. Good luck finding a consensus here. What this discussion has done is shine some light on the subject so that hopefully so extra haands can sort out the scope content. If problems persist a relist down the road is not prohibited. Spartaz ^Humbug! 18:04, 24 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Aleviler[edit]

Aleviler (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)

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Contested PROD; reason for nomination was: Article likely falls within WP:DEL-REASON (4, 6, 7, 8). Expounded details of concern at Administrator noticeboard (linked) as well. (ANI diff, PROD nominator was DA1) Swarm ♠ 12:56, 31 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Islam-related deletion discussions. MT Train^Talk 14:44, 31 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I would like to request the anonymous author(s) of the article to please provide some reliable sources mentioning the contents of the article: namely, that there is a categorization or "list" known as Aleviler composed of these various sects. I hope it isn't WP:FRINGE or WP:OR. I would also like to know why its filled with citations that have nothing to do with the context of the article. For example, one of the citations (Economist) leads to a comment section of an article, not even the article itself. Manually clicking on the article, gives me no mention of Aleviler. DA1 (talk) 15:45, 31 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Looking through the other accessible sources (CNN Blog) and (NYT) do not show me any indication of Aleviler or its concepts, nor does the two other links I could access. They all mention Alevism, but not Aleviler or this classification or umbrella (with all of the other sects and religions) as presented in the Wikipedia article. Seems to me they (citations) are completely unrelated and there for show. DA1 (talk) 16:01, 31 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Alevism represents Kızılbaş faith which is considered as a Muslim sect. But, there are alor of different groups they call themselves as ALEVI but some of them claims that they are not Muslim at all. ALEVİLER (translated as ALEVİs) includes all groups, muslim or non-muslim, christian or any other thing. This word ALEVİLER is used in Turkish for all Muslim sects other than Sunnis. Is this explanation clear enough? Three Muslim sects: Alevi+Alawites+Shi'ites+Two non-muslim sects: Ishikism+Yarsanism. In the classical textbooks, Kaysanites, Qarmatians, Fatimid Ismailis, Nizaris and Pamiris are called as ALEVİ(LER) (Alevi(s).).^[1]

Conclusion:

1. Alevis and Alawites are two distinct Muslim sects but both of them are called as Aleviler.
2. Ahl-E Haqq and Chinarism are two distinct Non-Muslim sects but both of them calls/defines themselves as Aleviler even though they are not Alevi.
3. Moreover, you call Nosairis as Alawites which is being pronounced as Alevis although Nusayris are not Alevis and in this way creating further confusion between the Nosairi and Alevi since both of them pronounced Oalavee
4. Ishikists, on the other hand, who declared themselves as non-Muslims, asserting that the word Alevi was generated from the Flame not from Alevi, hence contributed further confusion to the content of Aleviler. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.31.250.33 (talk) 04:51, 1 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

So do you have sources for this, or is it just WP:OR or WP:FRINGE as it first seemed? Because it still looks that way. You noted one source, that's a start but not enough to be notable enough to warrant an article on its own (and I don't know what it says in it, other than mentioning the word "Alevi", which we have an article for on WP). And you still haven't explained why the article is filled with 'citations' that have absolutely nothing to do with the context of the article (i.e, the Aleviler classification or umbrella). DA1 (talk) 05:06, 1 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The world "Alevi" is a variation of "Alawi", I already know what it means, its an adjective pertaining to Ali, i.e., a follower or descendant of Ali. Calling oneself "Alevi" is fine, there's arguably 2 billion people who that label applies to in some form or another. Hence, why I want context. Who came up with this "Aleviler" concept, and where does it say XYZ sects are part it (and say, not ABC sects)? You can't just have an article with a random list...with unconnected citations that don't even backup said list. DA1 (talk) 05:15, 1 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Many groups call themselves as ALEVİ but they don't share Alevi faith. All these people are called ALEVİLER: Alevis and Alawites are two distinct Muslim sects, Ahl-E Haqq and Chinarism are two distinct Non-Muslim sects, furthermore all the Shi'ites including Kaysanites, Qarmatians, Fatimid Ismailis, Nizaris and Pamiris are called as ALEVİLER in Turkish as well. The term Shia has no meaning in public use. The topic Alevi here refers to Kızılbaş faith. Even though Nosairis, Yarsanis and Ishik Alevis uses this term, they don't share Alevi faith.

108.31.250.33 (talk) 04:20, 2 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• comment I think this is basically a big disambiguation page, talking about different and not very related meanings of the word that simply happen to have the same name... —{{u|Goldenshimmer}}｜✝️｜they/their｜😹｜T/C｜☮️｜John 15:12｜🍂 16:34, 2 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.