Rich Farmbrough
[edit]Does not appear to be a violation of the arbitration decision. However, user blocked at ANI for violating a community sanction. T. Canens (talk) 16:00, 6 November 2012 (UTC) |
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Request concerning Rich Farmbrough[edit]
The edits not only appear to be a violation of the ArbCom restriction, they are also typical of the kind of edits that done through a bot or with some discussion could have been better, e.g. all templates should have been added to the Category:Template-Class Lepidoptera articles instead of Category:NA-Class Lepidoptera articles. The edits are furthermore an undeniable violation of Wikipedia:Editing restrictions#Placed by the Wikipedia community, which while not under AE enforcement indicates that Rich farmbrough should have refrained from making these mass page creations anyway; "Regardless of the editing method (i.e. manual, semi-automatic, or automatic; from any account), Rich Farmbrough is indefinitely prohibited from mass creating pages in any namespace, unless prior community approval for the specific mass creation task is documented. "
Discussion concerning Rich Farmbrough[edit]Statement by Rich Farmbrough[edit]While it is touching that Fram continues to follow my every move after all these years, these are manifestly not automated. Automation would have made it a much more productive and accurate job. See these edits
Move that this be summarily dismissed to save everyone time and effort. Rich Farmbrough, 14:46, 5 November 2012 (UTC). Comments by others about the request concerning Rich Farmbrough[edit]
In a few cases, 12 edits are timed as being within one minute (at 18:17 on 4 Nov) and another 8 at 18:16. The restriction is on edits which would reasonably appear to be automated, and they rather seem to breach that standard. Collect (talk) 15:24, 5 November 2012 (UTC)
Result concerning Rich Farmbrough[edit]
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DIREKTOR
[edit]WP:FOOTBALLPLAYERWHOSHALLNOTBENAMED. Filer blocked as a suspected sockpuppet. The Blade of the Northern Lights (話して下さい) 20:55, 7 November 2012 (UTC) |
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Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning DIREKTOR[edit]
DIREKTOR have constant personal attacks against other users that do not agree with him and often point to their ethnic background, accuse them for nationalism and socking and threat to report them if they do not accept his position. From this diff list is clear that DIREKTOR who is user from Croatia have disputes with other users from countries around Croatia (Italy, Slovenia, Serbia) and accuse all of them for nationalism and POV push, insult them and threat them. Administrators should stop this behavior. Nemambrata (talk) 13:34, 6 November 2012 (UTC)
[22] - notification
Discussion concerning DIREKTOR[edit]Statement by DIREKTOR[edit]Um... am I supposed to say something? I have no idea what this is supposed to be about. These are brazenly cherry-picked, out-of-context, perhaps overly-candid discussion responses. Selected, with great care no doubt, out of a huge number of posts from a host of difficult discussions - which I always try my best to resolve without giving other people work to do on noticeboards. DancingPhilosopher or Silvio1973 might appear with statements along the lines of "oh yes block him, block him!", but they're right now trying to push controversial changes which I oppose. I don't know what else to add. I could go point-by-point, I guess.. The first post is imo justified, given the context of DancingPhilosopher's preceding outburst ("Do not try to compare this loss with the Croatian one! Ever! During the WW II Croats were granted an independent state, don't you try to compare this with the Slovenes teared between three occupiers!"), the second point is a joking remark, etc. This is all quite harmless, when you take away the bold and read the context, that is (imo even the context may be unnecessary for some points). -- Director (talk) 14:12, 6 November 2012 (UTC)
Comments by others about the request concerning DIREKTOR[edit]Statement by Silvio1973[edit]Direktor is a very skilled user with a good knowledge of the technicalities of Wikipedia rules. Also, he is very experienced and knows how much he can push things without getting any consequences. This is absolutely fine, but the issue is that sometime in order to get things his way he deliberately focus the discussions more on form that on matter, getting to results that might be "conform to rules" but in opposition to very reputed secondary sources. In that sense, the recent discussions on House of Gundulic (if someone has the energy to go trough, by the way there is a 3O pending on the article) and Dalmatia are valid examples. However, the real issue is another. It is true that sometime Direktor uses strong wording towards users with different opinions. The thing is that such wording is strong, but not that strong to justify in my eyes any enforcement. But I agree that such comportment can be irritating after a while, because it is repetitive. However, I have been trough a few Talk pages involving Direktor and other users and found out that 95% (if not 99%) of the time, the users getting in an Edit-War with him are the ones being blocked in the end. This happens because he knows how much he can push things. Recently my edits have been qualified of "extremely aggressive and nationalist". Well, now I welcome anyone to go trough my edit and see if there is anything of "extremely aggressive and nationalist" (and please mind that usually all my edits are supported by sources). But I also know that if I had escalated the matter I would ended being blocked, because I am the one less knowledgeable of the rules and I would have been the first one "crossing the line". So I preferred to keep a low profile and swallow my pride. The situation would be different if more competent users and administrators were involved in the discussions concerning all topics about the Balkans but I realise that this is impossible, because sometime the articles concern quite obscure matters. Comment by Lothar von RIchthofen[edit]Yup, that's a lot of canvassing. WhiteWriter Antidiskriminator No such user N-HH Silvio1973 Theirrulez DancingPhilosopher Viator slovenicus. ~~ Lothar von Richthofen (talk) 17:56, 6 November 2012 (UTC) Comment by Volunteer Marek[edit]Nothing here that's objectionable, though DIREKTOR should probably lay off using the term "nationalist" so frequently (nationalists almost ALWAYS call others "nationalists" so, even if the use of the term is justified, it reflects badly on the user (I know, I've done it myself)). Other than that, yeah, maybe BOOMERANG it. Volunteer Marek 18:53, 6 November 2012 (UTC) Comment by Peacemaker67[edit]Some perhaps injudicious remarks, but essentially this is vexatious in my view. User:Nemambrata has very unclean hands when it comes to poor wikibehaviour, including having been:
Now, User:Nemambrata has only made 368 edits as a registered user in that user name (although he has acknowledged elsewhere that he has edited before that). That is an impressive record for only 368 edits. I will advise all of the editors I have listed regarding this report. I consider WP:BOOMERANG is in order. Peacemaker67 (send... over) 13:00, 7 November 2012 (UTC) Comment by Joy[edit]I agree with Peacemaker67 on the basic point that Nemambrata is reporting DIREKTOR with unclean hands. IIRC, the former user has appeared recently in another discussion where he apparently barged in without WP:ARBMAC in mind, so them filing an enforcement request on the same matter is really pushing the envelope. I doubt anyone would shed a tear if Nemambrata was immediately penalized for this. Having said that, the regulars here will remember my own unrelated complaint over DIREKTOR being pointlessly combative. Sadly, it's not entirely unrelated. I quickly skimmed the articles covered in this complaint, and soon found this: [29] [30] Yes, DancingPhilosopher is apparently adding peacock-ish non-summary information to the lead section and drops two factoids along the way. (Censuring DancingPhilosopher for doing that would be entirely warranted.) But the most sensible course of action is to move the relevant part of that information out of the lead and into a relevant section, not just revert it completely. If I had infinite time in the world, I'd engage in further analysis, but I don't. Granted, the same can apply to DIREKTOR - we can't really expect him to do everything perfectly. So he did something quick and suboptimal - but it was still better than the other person. Trouble is, people will eventually find it hard to believe that a person can find the time to write large amounts of text in edit summaries and on Talk, yet can't find the time to try to be more constructive, in an effort to reduce the amount of vitriol. Especially in these topic areas where we know that vitriol is important to avoid. I hope that someone will find the time to examine the matter and do something productive here, but I'm not really optimistic, since there's a huge amount of material to try to make sense of, and most of it is rather subtle. --Joy [shallot] (talk) 14:30, 7 November 2012 (UTC)
I agree with Joy and Peacemaker67. I don't always agree with DIREKTOR but I have seen DIREKTOR working hard to mitigate pov-pushing on Balkan articles, and the complaints above are just quotemining. Nemambrata's activity in the last 4 weeks can be summarised as follows:
And that's it. None of those edits are a net positive to the encyclopædia; every single one is a net negative, part of a pov-pushing campaign. I won't pretend that DIREKTOR is perfect, but this enforcement request is just retaliation; which is a disappointingly common reward for editors who try to maintain neutrality on Balkan articles. Nemambrata should know how ARBMAC works - they've been warned about it enough times. bobrayner (talk) 20:11, 7 November 2012 (UTC)
Result concerning DIREKTOR[edit]
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Ellhn2012
[edit]Already blocked by Sandstein |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
Request concerning Ellhn2012[edit]
Standard warning: 1 November
Newish registered account, previously edited as IP 94.70.117.243 (talk · contribs · WHOIS), 194.177.198.13 (talk · contribs · WHOIS) and similar. Identity with previous IPs self-confirmed here: [34]
Discussion concerning Ellhn2012[edit]Statement by Ellhn2012[edit]Comments by others about the request concerning Ellhn2012[edit]Result concerning Ellhn2012[edit](Self-closing; editor has been blocked indef by Sandstein. – Fut.Perf. ☼ 17:06, 9 November 2012 (UTC)) |
Iantresman
[edit]Iantresman (talk · contribs) is banned from all articles, discussions and other content related to plasma physics and astrophysics, broadly construed across all namespaces. T. Canens (talk) 06:42, 11 November 2012 (UTC) | ||
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Request concerning Iantresman[edit]
This is covered under Wikipedia:Fringe theories/Arbitration cases.
In this section Talk:Dusty_plasma#Reference_restoration is wikilawyering to have a book about "the plasma universe" be added to an unrelated non-fringe dusty plasmas article. He argues he wishes to add it for it's 6 pages on dusty plasmas in the appendix [36]. He has continued to argue, despite no consensus for it. I am worried that this pushing, so soon after his topic ban removal is indicative that he is going to continue to civilly POV push this fringe science subtlety; adding a burden on other editors to deal with him. He has been wikilawyering on the page.
Also note that one of his first reactions was to to go to WP:IRS, and arguing the exact opposite thing: [41] "The book is clearly fringe. How could I show that?" Wikipedia_talk:Identifying_reliable_sources#Academic_textbook_assessment_as_a_reliable_source. I'm not sure what to make of that.
I will note that Civil POV pushing is still POV pushing and detrimental to the encyclopedia. IRWolfie- (talk) 02:47, 10 November 2012 (UTC) @My76strat. The Plasma universe is a fringe viewpoint. You can confirm this if you wish at WP:FTN. That is a non-controversial statement of fact. Ask a physicist what Plasma cosmology is, and he'll shrug his shoulders. No notification is required for FTN discussions, much like RSN discussions. The comment was to attract more interested editors to the actual discussion which was at Dusty Plasmas. When someone is civilly POV pushing books that suit their fringe viewpoint then what sort of compromise do you suggest? I did discuss the issue, but when someone starts wikilawyering about sources needing sources, what do you suggest? It's clear he is aiming to use this book rather than the countless volumes dedicated to this article. IRWolfie- (talk) 11:51, 10 November 2012 (UTC) @Start, you are selectively quoting FRINGE. THe rest of that sentence is "and reliable sources must be cited that affirm the relationship of the marginal idea to the mainstream idea in a serious and substantial manner." We don't include fringe theory books in articles not about the fringe theory when there are perfectly adequate books not about the fringe theory. Iantresman is a supporter of plasma cosmology, and here he is adding books about it into other articles. Plasma cosmology has no direct connection to Dusty plasmas. The reasonable compromise position isn't to add the book about plasma cosmology, and I'm quite startled that you are arguing that; and you appear to go even further, saying that plasma cosmology should be mentioned when no source seriously connects them in the same way as say astrology and astronomy. IRWolfie- (talk) 13:03, 10 November 2012 (UTC) @Canens, By pseudoscience, it's hard to find a source that says catagorically pseudoscience, that is mostly be because it's hard to find a source that addresses it at all because it is so very fringe. It's referred to as a "a persistent but extremely off-base crackpottery that plagues astronomy" in places [43]. here a major proponent is compared to a creationist: [44]. Errors with books [45] etc. This is not a respected alternative formulation. I think the admins will need to use their discretion, or I can take it to arbcom also if you think that's what needs to be done? It meets the arbcom description: " Wikipedia contains articles on pseudoscientific ideas which, while notable, have little or no following in the scientific community, often being so little regarded that there is no serious criticism of them by scientific critics." IRWolfie- (talk) 16:19, 10 November 2012 (UTC) @Canens, I think extending that topic ban to Plasmas as well would be prudent as well. For example, dusty plasmas is under the plasma physics category (although dusty plasmas are mainly used in astrophys it seems). IRWolfie- (talk) 20:00, 10 November 2012 (UTC) @TDA The issue is that this is just going to repeat. This occurred almost immediately after his unban; and so a lot of editor time will be devoted to making sure it doesn't happen again and then dealing with it when it does. IRWolfie- (talk) 21:50, 10 November 2012 (UTC) @Strat, Why would a notice be needed? The discretionary sanctions exist because of his very case. He has just come off a arbcom topic ban. This proposal is to enforce the previous ruling, it falls under the topic as TDA pointed out. IRWolfie- (talk) 23:14, 10 November 2012 (UTC)
Discussion concerning Iantresman[edit]Statement by Iantresman[edit]I am surprised that this RFAR has been placed, as the discussion was still in progress, with some constructive information emerging slowly, dispute resolution was not considered, and I expressed being open to using the Reliable Sources Noticeboard (WP:RSN).[47] I disagree with the characterisation which I feel is a misuse of the term Wikilawyer, as I am providing "reasoned arguments in a debate". I would summarise the issue as follows (some of this is repeated in the Dusty Plasma thread mentioned).
I never expected that, what should have been a simple restoration of the actual source, to become so protracted, and hope that "reasoned arguments in a debate" is not mistaken for being difficult. But Wikipedia is not built on facts which editors just vote on, but independent verifiable reliable sources, which everyone can check, without relying on the opinion of fallible editors (myself included). --Iantresman (talk) 02:02, 10 November 2012 (UTC) Just found the hidden text at "more details about the fringe editing". Comment: (1) I actually explained why there might indeed be a connection between the book and the subjects concerned.[64] (2) We are not dealing with the fringe subject Plasma Cosmlogy, so we don't need any sources about it (3) We are dealing with a specific book, of which there are many sources that I have already provided for review, (so no-one has to look hard), that contradict the concerns. (4) If a book published by an academic publisher this year, 10 peer-reviewed journals, 3 academic textbooks, 2 peer-reviewed book reviews, and an industry organisation, that meet WP:IRS, is not enough sources, how many need to be provided? I can probably come up with another 10. (5) I think the reason that it is hard finding sources that suggest the book is unreliable, or fringe, is because the book is "educational reading for any astrophysicist"[65] and "The plasma principles, equations and cosmic applications are well described"[66] --Iantresman (talk) 02:50, 10 November 2012 (UTC)
Comments by others about the request concerning Iantresman[edit]Comment by My76Strat[edit]It is disquieting to see this request. Discussion is the means for collaborative editing and it is intuitively counterproductive to call for measures to stifle an opposing view without reviewing its merit. The discussion is too current to allege Iantresman is pushing against a consensus. Having observed several discussions within this topic area, I find IRWolfie asserts him or herself ubiquitously as a controlling authority on matters of content. Statements like: "The Plasma universe is a fringe viewpoint and it will not be getting space in this non-fringe article per WP:ONEWAY" is a manner of stipulating the outcome to accord with an ordained (non-consensus) premise. You IRWolfie, state that it is "a fringe viewpoint" and treat reasonable dissent ineffably. I respect that you are learned in the sciences, but you are far too stubborn for my comprise. It's a content dispute, discuss it and reach a consensus, if you can't, seek adequate wp:dr. Don't seek wp:ae unless you can show bad faith, which should be some form of wp:battleground conduct in defiance of a consensus resolution. Iantresman, by all means, please do not edit war to effect change. The 1RR is technically per 24 hour period, but I think it would be best to reach a consensus before you consider repeating the 1RR in any subsequent periods. Gain a consensus or let it go. IMO, My76Strat (talk) 06:20, 10 November 2012 (UTC) Addendum: A discussion was started at WP:FTN and I do not see where Iantresman was notified that his conduct was being discussed. I posted a comment there and consider the link relevant. [78] My76Strat (talk) 08:27, 10 November 2012 (UTC) Greetings IRWolfie. While you are technically correct that "no notification is required for FTN discussions", it is clearly recommended in the red letter admonition which states: "If you mention specific editors, please notify them. You may use Let me be clear that it is not my intention to prescribe any conclusion or to selectively diminish a guideline. I did advocate proportional inclusion if and only if the fringe theory was reliably sourced to include secondary validation. Unless this topic has been thoroughly explored in an archived discussion, I've not seen the current discussion reach the clarity of consensus. At least one participant seemed to align with Iantresman's assertion, so his argument does not appear extraneous. And there are several thoughtful editors, like yourself, who have not posted regards, and I suspect will. The bottom line is this, I want Iantresman to succeed at his stated endeavor to reintegrate into this topic area as a productive contributor. I'd like you to help ensure nothing less; as a colleague! Perhaps this is asking too much, but I think you can be a bit more nurturing, and a bit less dismissive. I challenge Iantresman as well to show likewise considerations when thoughtful editors express dissent with his or her views. Certainly it must be possible for your collective kind to find agreeable areas for compromise, or collegial methods of expressing disagreement. And I do feel seeking AE is premature at this time. I wish you all the best. My76Strat (talk) 14:03, 10 November 2012 (UTC) In my opinion, the focus of this request is on measures to enforce the amended Arbcom sanction. Suggestions to impose a community topic ban should be drafted as a separate proposal and !voted on by the community at wp:an. It would be a stretch for a single non-involved admin to stipulate a topic ban under the guise of AE. If this topic is covered under discretionary sanctions, the measure could be imposed, but I recall a requisite 30 day notice that would precede implementation. What am I failing to consider in stating my opinion? My76Strat (talk) 22:40, 10 November 2012 (UTC) I'll retract my assertion of a 30 day notice, I believe that relates to adding a new topic to the existing list. Pertaining to this topic; "articles relating to pseudoscience, broadly interpreted, are placed under discretionary sanctions. Any uninvolved administrator may levy restrictions as an arbitration enforcement action on users editing in this topic area, after an initial warning." (emphasis mine) No matter how it is sliced, Iantresman did not violate his recent amended sanction and if you want to levy discretionary sanctions against him it is incumbent that he first be warned. WP:AC/DS further states "Warnings should be clear and unambiguous, link to the decision authorizing the sanctions, identify misconduct and advise how the editor may mend their ways". It's time to close this discussion and move on. My76Strat (talk) 00:48, 11 November 2012 (UTC) Greetings EdJohnston. I would feel remiss if I didn't respectfully disagree with your regards to me. Fear not however, for I am considerably out of touch, with the beautiful people; whose wisdom dominates this site. I am deeply aggrieved! My76Strat (talk) 02:48, 11 November 2012 (UTC) Comment by Enric Naval[edit]I am sorry, but the source in question and its author have very close ties to the fringe topic Plasma cosmology. The context index suggests strongly that several chapters are directly related to the fringe topic. And I see the source being used in discussions about the fringe topic in many skeptic forums and fringe websites. The name "Plasma universe" seems to be only an alternative name of the fringe topic, maybe used to avoid negative connotations. "Electric universe" is an even fringer version of the topic, and its proponents also use the author's theories. The author also collaborated in The Big Bang Never Happened, another fringe book rejected by physical cosmologists. I think this is clearly and unambiguously a fringe source from a fringe author. And the author has been heavily discussed in the talk page of the fringe topic because of his close relationship to the topic[79], and if you look at the results you will see that many times the author was first mentioned by Iantresman himself. Like here, here and here] in defense of the fringe topic. lantresman himself added papers by this author to support what "advocates of plasma cosmology" think [80]. Iantresman has strongly defended the classification of the author as a "plasma cosmologist"[81][82][83][84]. In the last diff he even bolds the words "Plasma universe", which are also in the title of the book we are discussing here. Thus, lantresman is prefectly aware that "Plasma universe" in a title indicates that the source is about plasma cosmology. There are many more examples and indications that Instresman knows that the source is fringe. Many of the concepts he defends as part of plasma cosmology appear as chapters in the source he was trying to introduce, like Bennet pinch and Birkeland currents. Iantresman himself cites in two different occasions two different chapters of the book in support of the plasma cosmology ideas of the author[85][86]. Despite this, he used the book reviews and book summary to claim that the book had no "Plasma cosmology" ideas. Summary: it is indisputably a fringe source, and Iantresman knew it. Iantresman lied about the content of the book. And he wikilawyered at length to support this lie. --Enric Naval (talk) 15:06, 10 November 2012 (UTC)
@Iantresman. You knew perfectly that the book had chapters on plasma cosmology because you had cited them yourself in wikipedia in support of plasma cosmology. Your statement "If you recall, I noted that the the book includes nothing on cosmology."[87] and "(...) the quote I provided shows that the book has nothing to do with cosmology."[88] are direct lies. Your statement "None of the sources I have already provided suggest that the book includes contentious material."[89] is wikilawyering because you had previously cited the contentious material in wikipedia. Idem for "Likewise, you have suggested that the book is "advocating plasma cosmology"[26], and I have provided a source from the book, that you can check yourself, indicating that it does not (my point #5 above)."[90] since the book does advocate the theories of plasma cosmology. Idem for " For example, you have mentioned "plasma cosmology" now for the third time, and as I have previously shown with a quote, (my point #5, above), the quote seems to contradict this characterisation"[91]. And doubly for "00My source seems to contradict your suggestion that the book is an "advocating plasma cosmology". I don't think it is unreasonable then, to have some independent reliable published sources, in order to review your conclusion, per WP:IRS. Have you looked through a copy of Physics of the Plasma Universe?"[92] since Iantresman has actually read a copy and he has authored one of the appendixes, and he has seen the plasma cosmology content himself. --Enric Naval (talk) 16:38, 10 November 2012 (UTC) @T. Canens. Hum, we are asking that lifting of the topic ban by arbcom is overturned and that the community topic ban is restored. The community topic ban was about "general POV-warrior of all sorts of pseudoscience and fringe science ideas", not just pseudoscience. Should this be made as a amendment to arbcom? I think that the disruptive behaviour should be enough to restore the community ban under normal provisions, but well..... --Enric Naval (talk) 16:38, 10 November 2012 (UTC) Comment by The Devil's Advocate[edit]Ian plainly states this source pertains to plasma cosmology and WP:ARB/PS was brought to ArbCom by Ian specifically in relation to the subject of plasma cosmology so obviously it falls under the topic area subject to discretionary sanctions. This is certainly a fringe view now, but it does not appear to have always been fringe. With that under consideration, using a source from when it was still a noteworthy minority view to support material unrelated to the actual view in question would not appear to be a problem in itself. However, unless I am mistaken, the section that it was apparently being used to support is now sourced to more recent works. If the material is reliably referenced, then it appears the only basis for pushing to restore the source is because Ian wants it to be in the article, which would be a problem.--The Devil's Advocate (talk) 17:29, 10 November 2012 (UTC)
Result concerning Iantresman[edit]
I'm closing this now. It is well settled precedent that named parties to an arbitration case are considered to be on notice of the discretionary sanctions authorized within that case; this is especially so in the case of Iantresman, who until recently was under a topic ban in this area. Moreover, Iantresman was in fact notified of the motion authorizing discretionary sanctions by a clerk. Under these circumstances, I see no reasonable probability that arbcom will require yet another warning as a result of the clarification request, and therefore no reason to delay closure of this thread. I also think IRWolfie-'s suggestion that we the topic ban cover plasma physics as well is sound. Accordingly, under the authority of WP:ARBPS#Discretionary sanctions, Iantresman (talk · contribs) is banned from all articles, discussions and other content related to plasma physics and astrophysics, broadly construed across all namespaces. T. Canens (talk) 06:41, 11 November 2012 (UTC) |
Al Ameer son
[edit]No action taken, for now. Fut.Perf. ☼ 18:33, 19 November 2012 (UTC) |
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Request concerning Al Ameer son[edit]
The page of Ahmed Jaabari is clearly subject to ARBPIA sanctions. The four reverts are not only in violation of 1RR of ARBPIA, but broader 3RR restrictions for all articles.
Discussion concerning Al Ameer son[edit]Statement by Al Ameer son[edit]Wasn't thinking about AE to be honest. The Ahmed Jaabari article is one that will attract a lot of inflammatory edits for the next few days as he was just killed in a major military operation. So the idea that I wouldn't remove grossly POV edits by what appeared to be relatively new editors such as edit #4 which basically peppered the article with insulting or clearly biased language like "terrorist" (unacceptable unless in attributable quotes), "criminal" and "brutal" or #2 which replaced "political" with "terrorist" seems ridiculous. Edit #3 was obviously a lengthy, irrelevant and slightly flawed description of Israel with no place in the article and could be described as vandalism. The only revert that I think could be construed as not grossly biased would be revert #1 which saw me replace "as a response to" to "amid" in reference to the tit-for-tat strikes between Israel and Hamas. Any editor, including Plot Spoiler, could see my edits are simply an attempt to maintain the neutrality of a currently "hot" article in accordance with WP:NPOV and WP:TERRORIST and nothing more. --Al Ameer son (talk) 19:23, 16 November 2012 (UTC) Comments by others about the request concerning Al Ameer son[edit]@FPAS: The only reverts that exempt from the rule are vandalism, BLP and sock reverts. POV reverts and WP:TERRORIST is not one of them its a content dispute so Its clear breach of the rules.--Shrike (talk)/WP:RX 12:02, 16 November 2012 (UTC) Looking at at the history of the page it is clear that AAS is not the only one who could have a case filed for technical breach of 1rr. See e.g Brewcrew [94], [95], [96]. I don't present the diffs because I believe anyone else should be looking at sanctions, (in fact a case could similarly be made about my own edits to the related Operation Pillar of Cloud article). But I would like to know why Plot Spoiler has singled out this particular editor who is clearly acting in good faith and making valuable contributions. Dlv999 (talk) 10:56, 16 November 2012 (UTC)
Comment by The Devil's Advocate[edit]There should be consideration given to the fact that this man is recently deceased and that therefore WP:BLP is still seen as applying to edits to his bio. In that respect calling him a "terrorist activist" instead of a "political activist" and other extreme POV edits should be considered obvious BLP issues and thus exempt, especially when the edits are being made by single-purpose accounts with hardly any article edits. However, one of the edits listed as a revert is clearly not a revert. An editor added a quote to the lede and Ameer moved the quote to the article body. That is not a revert no matter how you slice it. I would add that there is another revert that hasn't been mentioned where Ameer removed some categories, but as there is a BLP consideration given that he is recently deceased one has to consider it from that perspective and the sources in the article do not seem sufficient to support the criminal cats per WP:BLPCAT. Removing the "terrorism" cat would be a little more shaky even though it is already covered by the Hamas cat. Personally, with such a fast-moving article as this I think sanctioning someone over the removal of an unnecessary cat and a minor adjustment to wording would be unduly punitive.--The Devil's Advocate (talk) 14:35, 16 November 2012 (UTC)
Plot Spolier has himself violated the 1RR on the article. Both this and this are reverts and they are non-sequential. Boomerang indeed. nableezy - 15:20, 16 November 2012 (UTC)
@FPAS, I agree it is trivial, but not much more trivial than this report. If Plot Spoiler is going to file a report based on an excessively technical reading of the restriction than I dont see why a just as technical reading of the restriction would not apply to Plot Spoiler. nableezy - 18:18, 16 November 2012 (UTC)
This filing is ridiculous. The article has a host of vandalism/blatanly pov edits (and was locked for the said reason). and 'EVERY article on Palestine is not ARBPIA. the article in question that could fall under that is only the death section (most edits of his which are elsewhere), and there is no warning on that page or the talk page. Its on the main page too and needas monitoring, many unsourced changed were also overlooked by people and there was no monitoring of such hot-topic issues. (such as the repeated unsourced additions of his midlde name and date of birth, that i removed). Al Ameer son has been invaluable and in keeping the npov. its a shame to scare of such people and let IP crap pass through without monitoring. He has also kept the israel view just as much as the other side (IVE ALSO eenaccused of not seeing the irsareal side on the one hadn, and then accused of being blindly pro-israel)
To apply 1RR the way Plot Spoiler wants to would be a extreme violation of WP:IAR, edits 2-4 were fine (no opinion on edit 1). If I understand Plot Spoiler correctly, he wants to disregard WP:IAR when it comes to 1RR. There is no 1RR exception to IAR, we can not just disregard one of our core policies like this. Emmette Hernandez Coleman (talk) This enforcement request should never have been filed, it has the potential to cause a chilling effect that would sabotage IAR. I strongly urge Plot Spoiler to withdraw this request. Emmette Hernandez Coleman (talk) 01:53, 17 November 2012 (UTC)
An unbelieveably misguided report. If only because it singles out one of the most reasonable and level-headed editors in this topic area over edits that should be construed as common sense per our policy. I do urge Plot spoiler to withdraw this report. Yazan (talk) 02:39, 17 November 2012 (UTC)
I think TC's reading of this situation is opening up a can of worms. Editors should abide by 1/rr in the topic area as it is currently worded. I have noticed that there have been instances where I wanted to revert but instead waited a few minutes and someone else did it instead. Alternatively, there is always the talk page to give a heads up. No action may be needed here but what about next time? TC will certainly get accused of being biased again if he pulls the trigger on an editor with a different POV for making an edit that doesn't look too bad. I'm not saying enforcement is needed but a reminder to pay attention to 1/rr (the editor admits to not even thinking about it) to both the editor and anyone else watching is appropriate. The reminder does not need to be in the form of a sanction.
Result concerning Al Ameer son[edit]
Of the four reverts listed, number 2 [97] is reverting obvious vandalism, so it doesn't count. Number 4 [98] is reverting something that Al Ameer son quite rightly described as "Grossly POV edits". Number 3 [99], removing "terrorist", is not quite as crass, but it's clearly enforcing a long-standing project-wide consensus understanding of NPOV ("WP:TERRORIST"), and I note that the reporting editor himself has also made a similar revert [100], so I reckon it is basically consensual. This leaves us with one (minor) revert over a genuine difference of opinion. This may well in effect be a violation of the letter of the restriction, but I'm still puzzled: if the revert restriction penalizes obviously legitimate cleanup edits like #3, then something is wrong with the revert restriction. Fut.Perf. ☼ 08:23, 16 November 2012 (UTC)
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159.1.15.34
[edit]Closed with no block, but the IP editor is being notified of the discretionary sanctions under ARBPIA. EdJohnston (talk) 02:59, 23 November 2012 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
Request concerning 159.1.15.34[edit]
I obtained a copy of the source via email, I can email interested parties copies. It says that "Bringing this quantity into the Strip would require 170.4 truckloads per day, five days a week." It then says that an amount is subtracted to account for food production in Gaza, and finally "From this total, 13 truckloads were deducted to adjust for the "culture and experience" of food consumption in Gaza, though the document does not explain how this deduction was calculated." 13 of 170.4 is 7.63 %. Now setting aside whether the specific text is the best way to reflect this, the fact remains that the 8% information is, in its way, in the article, as performing a division doesn't amount to original research per WP:OR. I see this as a conduct issue on two levels, 1) claiming the source doesn't have this, and 2) failing to provide the text on request. Since the IP hasn't been specifically warned of ARPIA, this AE request should probably be seen as a request to formally notify the IP of ARBPIA. I recall that an admin should do that.
Discussion concerning 159.1.15.34[edit]Statement by 159.1.15.34[edit]So many things wrong with this. Where do I begin? This dispute is pretty short so I invite any admins to browse both my history and Dailycare's. Let me go through this bad faith summary point by point.
159.1.15.34 (talk) 21:50, 20 November 2012 (UTC)
Comments by others about the request concerning 159.1.15.34[edit]
Presented without comment (for now). NW (Talk) 22:26, 20 November 2012 (UTC) Result concerning 159.1.15.34[edit]
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Logiphile
[edit]Logiphile (talk · contribs) is topic-banned for 6 months from any edits pertain to Operation Pillar of Defense (also known as Operation Pillar of Cloud). The Blade of the Northern Lights (話して下さい) 17:39, 19 November 2012 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Logiphile[edit]
Editor has made no attempt to communicate with others, either by edit summary or by talk page communication. Topic ban at the least is required. --Jprg1966 (talk) 17:49, 16 November 2012 (UTC)
Discussion concerning Logiphile[edit]Statement by Logiphile[edit]why again! totally unfair the information is cited and in the last time i added another citation from Israeli sources [108] and this part is continuously removed so you must punish who remove not who readd. i didn't access my account since days and i didn't see all these warning. Logiphile (talk) 01:27, 25 November 2012 (UTC) Comments by others about the request concerning Logiphile[edit]Result concerning Logiphile[edit]
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Cla68
[edit]Reminders and instructions given to both Cla68 and Mathsci; no further actions now. Fut.Perf. ☼ 22:03, 5 December 2012 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
Request concerning Cla68[edit]
I accept the closing advice, as summarised by Future Perfect at Sunrise, for how to handle these matters, if they ever arise in the future. I have asked him to clarify whether by "private communication" he means by wiki-email or on a user talk page. Either or both is fine. Mathsci (talk) 18:24, 5 December 2012 (UTC) Discussion concerning Cla68[edit]Statement by Cla68[edit]Admins, could you please do something about this? I think this is the third or fourth enforcement action Mathsci has filed against me. Do you need the links? Admins User:Timotheus Canens and User:Future Perfect at Sunrise, I'm especially interested in what you have to say. You helped make this mess. Cla68 (talk) 03:12, 5 December 2012 (UTC)
Comments by others about the request concerning Cla68[edit]As an administrator who doesn't frequent AE I'm commenting here. It would have been better if Mathsci hadn't filed this request. It would also have been better if Cla68 hadn't responded to this request. Cla68 is of course entitled to comment on Arb motions that name him as an affected party, but that doesn't mean he has carte blanche to make snarky comments against Mathsci, especially ones that refer to medical conditions. As far as I can see, Mathsci's editing affects Cla68 only insofar as Cla68 chooses to make it an issue. If Cla68 would decide to ignore Mathsci's posts to Arbspace, and ignore Mathsci's removal of sock posts, would there be an issue? Similarly, if Mathsci would decide to ignore Cla68's posts to Arbspace, annoying as they may be, would there be a problem? --Akhilleus (talk) 05:55, 5 December 2012 (UTC)
Statement by uninvolved A Quest for Knowledge[edit]I've been watching this sorry mess for the last few months with dismay, and this constant disruption needs to end. Sadly, this RfE is another example of Mathsci's battleground conduct. I don't know if this is best handled at AE or by ArbCom, but I don't see how this is going to end without a topic ban for Mathsci and an extension of the 1 way interaction bans to both ways. A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 17:53, 5 December 2012 (UTC)
Result concerning Cla68[edit]
Right. In the interest of getting this over with, and (I believe) in consensus with most of the other commentators here, I'll close this as follows:
Did I get that right? If somebody feels the wording should be tweaked, let me know. Fut.Perf. ☼ 17:25, 5 December 2012 (UTC)
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Darkness Shines
[edit]Darkness Shines is warned under ARBPIA for his inappropriate comment. Nobody was lying; there was a glitch in Google Books. No other action taken. EdJohnston (talk) 17:36, 8 December 2012 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
Request concerning Darkness Shines[edit]
Following a series of disputes, at Israeli settler violence and a DRV of an article created by DS that I nominated for speedy deletion (and before anybody accuses me of hounding, I saw the notification of the redirect for speedy on his talk page, saw the article redirected to, and saw the AfD, and made the obvious determination that the target article also qualified for speedy deletion. I emphatically did not go through his contributions to get there), DS goes on a bizarre tirade about restoring a source that is verified through google books because he has a different version in pdf form, in which he also accuses an editor of being dishonest. He then closes an AfD of an article in the topic area that had already relisted for lack of consensus as an obvious keep, an AfD that I had been involved in. @KC: 4 for the edit to Talk:Israeli settler violence, disruptive editing for the AfD close, which as far as I understand is covered under the standard discretionary sanctions (6). nableezy - 15:18, 7 December 2012 (UTC)
Discussion concerning Darkness Shines[edit]Statement by Darkness Shines[edit]All this does is show nableezy has a serious battlefield mentality. Let me know when I actually break a rule which can be brought to AE. Darkness Shines (talk) 13:57, 7 December 2012 (UTC)
Comments by others about the request concerning Darkness Shines[edit]There is currently a discussion at AN regarding this same matter. I believe a contentious non-admin closure of an AfD would fall more closely under the purview of AN or ANI than AE. Seems the other issues would be better handled together with that in the AN discussion.--The Devil's Advocate (talk) 00:46, 7 December 2012 (UTC)
Reading this, I'm not sure which part of the arbitration decision was violated. It just seems like two complaints. Was anything actually violated? Ryan Vesey 01:28, 7 December 2012 (UTC)
@KC Darkness does not have to violate a specific arb ruling. Any violations of policy in the topic area can lead to the use of discretionary sanctions. I will say that profanity is not prohibited under any policy and it shouldn't be fucking prohibited. On AfD the relevant guideline is WP:NACD. It was clearly a contentious close and the wording of the close is rather absurd. Even an admin closing it that way would meet with some heat.--The Devil's Advocate (talk) 15:01, 7 December 2012 (UTC) Comment by uninvolved A Quest for Knowledge[edit]@Darkness Shines: You clearly cannot be dropping the F bomb or accusing other editors of lying. These are violations of WP:CIVIL and WP:NPA. You also appear to have closed an AfD on an article in a topic space that your involved with. Discretionary sactions require that you adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, including expected standards of behavior and editorial process. Your opening statement doesn't seem to acknowledge these mistakes, so I'm left wondering why you shouldn't be sanctioned? A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 14:45, 7 December 2012 (UTC) Comment by Shrike[edit]DS already said sorry to Sean so I don't think any harsh sanctions are warranted here.--Shrike (talk)/WP:RX 16:57, 7 December 2012 (UTC) Comment by Sean.hoyland[edit]I guess I should comment. There are thousands of profanity filled insults that would have had a degree of accuracy. DS picked exactly the wrong one. This calls his competence into question. He made a mistake. So did I by not spotting a mismatch between google books 'about this book' info and the actual book that the google page scans come from. He apologized. Nobody died. I'm not familiar with DS so I can't really comment on anything else. I will say though as a rule of thumb, having edited in the topic area for a long time, people who come into conflict with me (or Nableezy for that matter) are usually either sockpuppets or they have confused Wikipedia with a propaganda/public relations department and are here to advocate for some inanely divisive cause. Either way, just blocking them saves time. DS is not a sockpuppet. I don't know whether he is an advocate who makes consistently biased edits. Since he is a fan of plain speaking perhaps someone should ask him. Sean.hoyland - talk 19:01, 7 December 2012 (UTC) Result concerning Darkness Shines[edit]
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Evildoer187
[edit]Two months of full protection for List of indigenous peoples. Evildoer187 and Ubikwit are notified under WP:ARBPIA. EdJohnston (talk) 18:38, 10 December 2012 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
Request concerning Evildoer187[edit]
Discussion concerning Evildoer187[edit]Question to Moxy:Why did you only bring the request only regarding Evildoer187? It seem to meet that at least one more user has broke 1RR.For example Nishidani
--Shrike (talk)/WP:RX 17:44, 8 December 2012 (UTC)
Statement by Evildoer187[edit]I only reverted it because the 24 hour limit had passed. I will revert my revert if that resolves the issue.Evildoer187 (talk) 17:55, 8 December 2012 (UTC) Statement by Ubikwit[edit]I am new to this discussion and editing conflagration, but it seems that in addition to Bedouins, Kurds should be on the list; I added them earlier. There is a fair amount of discussion relating to "contemporary status" regarding the characterization of a people as indigenous, not anachronistic claims related to "origin" or the like. It would seem that the focus should be on history and politics, not religion and genetics, but the discussion has been hijacked. The claim being made by the pro-Israel group is clearly an ahistorical claim. Given the references in the UN document I cited on the article Talk page, it seems that Palestinian Arabs in Israel should be on the list as well as Bedouin Arabs. The overall question of Palestinians in the Palestinians territories would seem to be much more difficult, and perhaps intractable at present, but it seems clear that there is no basis in modern history to include Jews, let alone the anachronistic "Israelites" on the list. --Ubikwit (talk) 15:34, 9 December 2012 (UTC)Ubikwit Statement by Evildoer187[edit]Given the criteria of the definition of indigenous peoples as defined under international law, particularly "Defining Indigenous People" Section 2 which I will explain in a moment, it would be inaccurate and an exercise in historical revisionism to include Palestinians in the list and not Jews. Here I have produced a word-for-word copy of the criteria, lifted directly from the document, as it is download-only and cannot be linked to on here. However, a quick Google search of "UN working definition of indigenous peoples" should lead you directly to the document itself. Now without further ado... "This historical continuity may consist of the continuation, for an extended period reaching into the present of one or more of the following factors:
Reading this, it should be apparent to anyone with extensive knowledge on Jewish history that Jews fit the bill to a tee. All of this is roundly supported by genetic, historical, linguistic, archaeological, and cultural evidence. There is also a consensus based on archaeological and other findings that the Jewish people are an outgrowth of Canaanite culture, and are not foreign conquerors from Babylon as has been posited by less than reliable sources. The idea that Palestinians are indigenous, and the Jews are not, is not supported by the facts on the table, especially considering Palestinians are ethnically Arab/Muslim, who are arguably even more recent than the Roman colonization of the Levant. It's also worth mentioning that denial of Jewish indigeneity resulted in charging Chandra Roy-Henriksen, Chief Secretariat of the Permanent Forum on Indigenous Issues, with violating provisions of Declarations of Rights of Indigenous People and Universal Declarations of Human Rights (UDHR) and the International Convention of the Elimination of all Forms of Racial Discrimination (CERD) and other UN and United States anti-discrimination laws. To this day, Israeli and Jewish representatives continue to attend the Permanent Forum on Indigenous Issues. http://firstpeoples.org/wp/tag/american-jewish-world-services/ One last thing, I would also like to charge Ubitwik of promoting some rather crass antisemitic conspiracy theories on the talk page, as evidenced here: "Harry Truman was a Christian biblical literalist who also happened to be a Freemason and close acquaintance of Zionist activist Chaim Weizman, which many associate with the Knight Templar, who rose to prominence through the Crusades to the so-called Holy Land. The Crusaders thought that they had a claim to "land rights", based on religion--Christianity. Your assertions are all either misdirected and irrelevant, or simply incorrect. The questions relating to Jews seem to be primarily about religion, and staking claims based on an anachronistic religious basis, encompassing the continued attempt to physically disposes through illegal occupation by "settlers" of the current and actual holders of the rights to lands in question.--Ubikwit (talk) 06:02, 9 December 2012 (UTC)Ubikwit" And here.... "It would appear that the Israeli participants were trying to hijack the forum in order to bolster their assertion of a claim to "indigenousness". Chandra Roy-Henriksen was not "charged" by a prosecutor, but charges were leveled against her by the Jews organization that is filing a civil suit, apparently. The last sentence in the article states: "There is no question that the Jewish People meet the UN Criteria for being considered indigenous." That is obviously not the case, and what unfolds in the civil suit should be relevant regarding the disposition of Jews to claim indigenous status. The modern state of Israel is considered to be illegally occupying Palestinian territory, in case you need to be reminded of that salient fact.--Ubikwit (talk) 06:02, 9 December 2012 (UTC)Ubikwit" Thank you.Evildoer187 (talk) 21:50, 9 December 2012 (UTC) Statement by Evildoer187[edit]Also, there's this. http://www.un.org/esa/socdev/unpfii/documents/5session_factsheet1.pdf "Considering the diversity of indigenous peoples, an official definition of “indigenous” has not been adopted by any UN-system body. Instead the system has developed a modern understanding of this term based on the following: • Self- identification as indigenous peoples at the individual level and accepted by the community as their member. • Historical continuity with pre-colonial and/or pre-settler societies • Strong link to territories and surrounding natural resources • Distinct social, economic or political systems • Distinct language, culture and beliefs • Form non-dominant groups of society • Resolve to maintain and reproduce their ancestral environments and systems as distinctive peoples and communities." With the exception of part 6 (i.e. "Form non-dominant groups of society"), according to which Palestinians (whose culture and ethnic identity is that of the Arab colonists from the 7th century) and Arabs in general would also be excluded, Jews meet virtually all of the criteria listed.Evildoer187 (talk) 00:36, 10 December 2012 (UTC)
Followup Statement by Ubikwit[edit]
Note that Crock81 makes a brazen statement denying the validity of WP:RS, and threatening to take administrative action against editors that insist that said policy be followed. I should integrate the following information into the Talk page when I have time to sort through these questions a bit more, but here is a preliminary discussion for the sake of assessing the editing practices of the pro-Israel/Jewish contributors. First, with respect to the article mentioning Chandra Roy-Henriksen, Chief Secretariat of the Permanent Forum on Indigenous Issues, the following quotes appear in the article Jewish Organizations Barred from UN Conference.
In light of the fact that the following reference is cited in the document State of the Indigenous Peoples of the World, p. 151, it would appear that the Israeli organization sent an overwhelming presence to the conference in order to dominate the forum, and that to prevent that from recurring both the Israeli and Bedouin groups were blocked. It can be imagined that the issues at hand regarding the world's multitude of indigenous peoples demanded the attention of the participants, whereas the issue of the plight of the Bedouin had been stonewalled by the Israeli government, and from the description of the report the OFICL presented, they would seem to have been presenting the governments position vis-a-vis the Bedouins as a proxy of the government:
The claims to land based on their religious documents, which contain a large proportion of fictitious material, are put forth as superseding the exigencies of historical reality in terms of seeking to retroactively assert an anachronistic claim of indigeneity, on the one hand, while on the other hand, it has been admitted that the tale of Moses leading Israelites out of slavery in Egypt was a fabrication in order to claim direct genealogical connection with the Canaanites, whose kingdoms and cultures the Israelites usurped. It has also been claimed that Israelites were prohibited from intermarrying with Canaanites, further complicating the convoluted assessment by the introduction of unreliable sources in the form of religious documents. It could be said that those attempting to push these views are attempting to assume the mantle of Canaanites in a manner that monopolizes such an anachronistic claim for the Jews and excludes the Palestinians, who in fact have historical continuity in the land of Canaan, whereas it would appear from a cursory assessment of the history of the region that the Jews were completely absent for centuries on end before the modern era, with a mere 4% of the population of Palestine consisting of Jews in the mid-19th century. In another sense, neither the Jews nor Palestinians would need to be considered as indigenous if not for the intervention of Britain and Zionist colonization, because nether population emerged as the original occupants of the land, and even the myths of the Israelites describe them as migrating from Egypt. However, because the Zionist colonization has resulted in oppression of people that had unbroken historical continuity in inhabiting Palestine, discussion has taken place in UN forums relating to the plight of Palestinian Arabs and Bedouin Arabs in Israel. In short, the discussion of religious references and genetics are largely irrelevant to the immediate exigencies of modern history and the plight of the Palestinians, which are simply glossed over by the pro-Israel contributors. There is a fundamental contradiction between an “indigenous community” and a “diaspora”. The following link is the webpage from which the document cited by Evildoer can be downloaded, and includes more information. “OP 4.10-Indigenous Peoples” The World Bank. July 2005
Evildoer187 is correct to draw attention to the portion of the above passage (my emphasis), because it brings to the fore the aspect of contemporaneity that is integral to the issue of indigeneity. He leaves out the remaining portions that indirectly relate to aspects which could be associated with oppression of the minority Palestinians residing in the Jewish state of Israel, and the Palestinians residing in the Palestinian territories. --Ubikwit (talk) 16:23, 10 December 2012 (UTC)Ubikwit Comments by others about the request concerning Evildoer187[edit]
1. [115] 2 [116] 3 [117] 4 [118] Moxy, it seems that the only reason why you did not report Nishadani was because he support the same political POV as you.
Result concerning Evildoer187[edit]
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Arbitration enforcement action appeal by Thomas Basboll
[edit]Appeal declined. Seraphimblade Talk to me 07:12, 11 December 2012 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
Procedural notes: The rules governing arbitration enforcement appeals are found here. According to the procedures, a "clear, substantial, and active consensus of uninvolved editors" is required to overturn an arbitration enforcement action. To help determine any such consensus, involved editors may make brief statements in separate sections but should not edit the section for discussion among uninvolved editors. Editors are normally considered involved if they are in a current dispute with the sanctioning or sanctioned editor, or have taken part in disputes (if any) related to the contested enforcement action. Administrators having taken administrative actions are not normally considered involved for this reason alone (see WP:UNINVOLVED).
Statement by Thomas Basboll[edit]I've been topic-banned from the 9/11 articles for over four years. (The ban is indefinite.) It was implemented in the early days of the WP:ARB9/11 ruling, when there was a great deal of conflict on those pages, and I've since tried to have the ban lifted on a number of occasions, without success. I recently noticed that on August 20, 2012 all mention of conspiracy theories were removed from the article about the collapse of the World Trade Center. It would seem, then, that the view that the conspiracy theories surrounding the events of 9/11 should be mentioned in the articles about those events has been completely defeated at Wikipedia, strongly supported by arbitration enforcement. I therefore request that I be allowed to return to the topic of 9/11 (focusing on the collapse of the WTC) in order to represent this extremely marginalized view, reestablishing some balance. I emphasize that I am not intending to "push" conspiracy theories, but to argue for mentioning them, on par with their inclusion in articles on, say, the JFK assassination. At the moment, an arbitration ruling seems to have both emboldened and empowered those who hold particular views about conspiracy theories to leave Wikipedia's readers less informed than they could be about those theories, and the historical events they are (like it or not) an essential part of. Ironically, August 20 is the same day that Philip Roth's biographer, at Roth's request, tried to remove any mention of the theory that the The Human Stain was inspired in part by the life of Anatole Broyard. That effort was obviously misguided and he did not, of course, get his way. Respectfully, --Thomas B (talk) 21:32, 9 December 2012 (UTC) As a standing response to the sorts of claims made by MONGO below, please see my user page, where I'm developing a statement of what my position on conspiracy theories actually is, as well as why I find Wikipedia interesting. MONGO presumably thinks I'm lying about my motives. I have no intention of responding to that charge.--Thomas B (talk) 13:16, 10 December 2012 (UTC)
Closing Remark: My appeal has clearly failed. Let me say in closing that the reason I don't work on other parts of Wikipedia is that I don't want to be part of a community that treats fringe views the way Wikipedia does and bans editors like me (after treating them the way I've been treated). I don't like having such a negative opinion of what I still think of as one of the most promising projects on the internet, so every now and then I come out of exile and ask the community to reconsider. The events of August 20, 2012, seemed like a good occasion to me, but the general effect of the trend that they indicate does not seem to trouble the Committee as much as I thought they might. Fair enough. It remains your project, and not something for me. I thank you for your time and wish you all the best in building the encyclopedia going forward.--Thomas B (talk) 05:38, 11 December 2012 (UTC) Statement by Raul654[edit]This user is here to do exactly one thing: promote fringe conspiracy theories. His own rationale for why we should unban him, stated on this very page, is that to go around adding conspiracy theory "mentions" to our articles. The four year topic ban hasn't taught him anything - he could not edit in any other way, so he simply left, and stayed away. As Mongo says, we have enough users here with an agenda to push, the last thing we need is another one. Raul654 (talk) 16:26, 10 December 2012 (UTC) Statement by MONGO[edit]A quick examination of Basbolls editing history provides proof that this editor doesn't care about Wikipedia...he cares about using this website to promote his conspiracy theories about 9/11 and is a self-proclaimed SPA. When Raul originally wrote his essay on Civil POV pushing, Basboll was one of if not the main editors he had in mind. It had been explained before to Basboll that his ban was merely topical, and even I encouraged him to assist in other areas...but he declined, opting instead to cease editing. We have enough editors around here with an agenda...but to remove the topic ban on a self proclaimed SPA in this matter would be preposterous.MONGO 12:43, 10 December 2012 (UTC) A fair argument to lift the ban could have been presented IF Basboll had shown substantial evidence of good work in another topic area. I encouraged him to seek out other areas of the pedia where he might enjoy contributing, but as I already mentioned, he hasn't done this. I'd like to take this opportunity to once again suggest he contribute to the pedia on other topics.MONGO 17:54, 10 December 2012 (UTC) Statement by A Quest for Knowledge[edit]I'm against lifting the ban. I don't see any acknowledgement of misconduct or any indication of how they plan on avoiding problems if the ban is lifted. A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 17:48, 10 December 2012 (UTC) Statement by Cla68[edit]I've edited the 9/11 articles a little, so I guess I'm involved. If I could offer a suggestion to Thomas Basboll...please find another topic that interests you and have at it for about six months. Try to take a couple of articles to Good Article or higher status. Avoid the administrator forums like AN or ANI. Then come back here and try again. The "involved" editors might still object to the lifting of the ban, but the the administrators here would be more likely to hear you out. Also, instead of giving an opinion on what you think is wrong with the articles, simply promise to obey all of WP's editing rules. Cla68 (talk) 01:46, 11 December 2012 (UTC) Discussion among uninvolved editors about the appeal by Thomas Basboll[edit]I never encountered Thomas Basboll during my 2008 GAN review of World Trade Center, because he was already banned. That was pretty much my only involvement on the general topic. After looking through some of his contributions to the topic area back then, they appear to be useful. It's hard for me to believe that not even a bare "See also" link to World Trade Center controlled demolition conspiracy theories was present at Collapse of the World Trade Center article. However, if someone is to restore a bit of balance to the article in the manner achieved at the JFK assassination and conspiracy articles, then I strongly oppose selecting a user who has previously exhausted the patience of the community. Binksternet (talk) 02:22, 10 December 2012 (UTC) Comment by The Devil's Advocate[edit]Ed, I do not believe that you are providing a fair interpretation of his comments as what he said does not suggest an on-wiki conspiracy at all. People, guided by their own prejudices, are more than capable of pushing a slanted perspective in a content dispute and removing individuals who oppose them in that dispute without engaging in any unsavory collaboration. Anyone who has looked at how the various nationalist disputes play out at AE can see plain as day that the enforcement system is regularly used by one side to try and get rid of the other side. No conspiracy is required for that to transpire.--The Devil's Advocate (talk) 07:11, 10 December 2012 (UTC)
Might I suggest that you consider replacing the topic ban with mandated external review? It has not seriously been tested and Thomas would seem to be an ideal candidate for this type of restriction as I imagine he will make use of it.--The Devil's Advocate (talk) 17:07, 10 December 2012 (UTC)
Heim, I am not sure why you would say there is no indication of him doing any editing outside the topic area. These substantial edits are definitely outside the topic area: [120] [121] [122]. He also created an article following the topic ban.--The Devil's Advocate (talk) 00:19, 11 December 2012 (UTC) Result of the appeal by Thomas Basboll[edit]
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