YehudaTelAviv64
[edit]YehudaTelAviv64 has been warned of discretionary sanctions in topic area and is admonished for use of the term "vandalism" and should instead assume good faith. Reporter Biosketch is cautioned to use recent behavior in making good faith reports on AE. --WGFinley (talk) 19:09, 4 December 2011 (UTC) |
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Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning YehudaTelAviv64[edit]
The user's behavior is aggressive and hostile, and his edits at Golan Heights and Holocaust-related articles articles could be considered POV-oriented. Additionally, there've been concerns he's masquerading as a new user under false pretenses.—Biosketch (talk) 23:08, 2 December 2011 (UTC)
Discussion concerning YehudaTelAviv64[edit]Statement by YehudaTelAviv64[edit]This user is hounding me in response to me reporting him for edit warring here in the Administrators noticeboard. Also, he calls my removal of an image with clear copyright violations a revert of an edit [1] from May 16, 2011. It's entirely unreasonable to call my removal of that image a revert, especially since I had never even heard of that edit until Biosketch hunted it down for this ridiculous witch-hunt. I went through a lot of work to track down the origin of that image and I found that it is a Rights Managed photo that is part of the Hulton-Deutsch Collection/CORBIS collection. Biosketch himself recommended that that image be deleted. Biosketch is just hounding me for the sake of hounding me. The same is also true for the third diff he links to. I tracked down the copyright violation (it's a Corbis Rights Managed photo) and removed the image from the article. Biosketch then tracked down some ancient edit from February 2011 and claimed the image removal was a revert of that. The first diff he links to was an edit where I undid a revert that he himself made and did not bother to discuss on the talk page. He also did not link to his revert here. I opened a discussion regarding my edit immediately, but Biosketch did not bother to link to that discussion when he opened this request. I was very clear in my image removal edit summaries that they were clear copyright violations. I suspect that Biosketch threw those edits into this request as part of his hounding efforts to make it make it more difficult to respond to this request by adding spurious accusations to refute. He must have seen those edit summaries. Furthermore, "concerns he's masquerading as a new user under false pretenses" refers to these [2] [3] personal attacks that I reported here in Wikiquette assistance. Also, he accused me of "aggressive and hostile" and "POV-oriented" edits but then did not point out any instances of this. I would appreciate it if someone could stop Biosketch from hounding me so I can instead spend my time on constructive edits. YehudaTelAviv64 (talk) 04:21, 3 December 2011 (UTC)
Comments by others about the request concerning YehudaTelAviv64[edit]
I don't understand your reaction to the questions about whether you have edited before and your statements about lack of evidence. You look like a sockpuppet because your edits are not like those of a new user. The observational evidence suggests that you are not a new user. Every edit you make is one more piece of evidence that you aren't a new user. So, they aren't evidenceless statements. They're statements based on observations by experienced rational observers using heuristic methods that have a near 100% success rate. In other words, people know what sockpuppets look like and you look like one. You could simply say whether or not you have edited under a previous account and if you have, tell people what it was and move on. You haven't done that yet. You've confirmed that you aren't a Pelican which has at least ruled out one of the large water birds but while questions remain unanswered and you find yourself in conflict with other users, partly because of their doubts and partly because of your responses to them, my concern is that your presence will attract sockpuppets to the topic area who will justify their presence by your presence. Editors could also use it as yet another excuse to do nothing about the long term repeat offender sockpuppetry by people whose views they agree with. If you just answer the question, edit constructively and don't come into conflict with other editors, people might just leave you alone. Sean.hoyland - talk 06:23, 3 December 2011 (UTC)
Comment by Shrike[edit]Did the user broke 1RR? [4] [5] Comment by Cptnono[edit]Reverts are reverts. He was right to make them (copyvio is a major concern) but it is not exempt from edit warring in the topic area. To block or ban would be silly since he was not being malicious but don't give a strait pass on it. Wikipedia is not supposed to be a bureaucracy but when editing in this topic area it is. It should have been "hey YehudaTelAviv64, next time make the revert but follow it up immediately with a request for assistance from the community". He was actually right says consensus but we all know editors have assumed (and edit warred) over copyright violations when it is undetermined. Being proactive by seeking the proper channels (there is a whole group of Wikipedians who look out for potential copyvios) would have been better than what resulted. I think admins should be a little more blunt in their warnings on this. Yes, he thought he was right. But he may not be right next time. Make the revert if you are confident that it is for the good of the project but make sure to follow it up in the appropriate channels. It may not matter in other topic areas but it matters here since not following protocol ends in requests for enforcement of the arbitration decision. That does not help anyone. Result concerning YehudaTelAviv64[edit]
Appears an admonition about reverts in P-I space and use of the term "vandalism" are in order. --WGFinley (talk) 01:45, 3 December 2011 (UTC)
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Editor75439
[edit]Topic banned indefinitely |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Editor75439[edit]
Editor75439 (talk · contribs) is a single-purpose account. Over the 5 days since this account's creation, it has made several hundred edits focusing solely on William Herbert Sheldon and his claims about somatotype and constitutional psychology. I believe that this topic clearly falls under the WP:ARBR&I discretionary sanctions ("the intersection of race/ethnicity and human abilities and behaviour, broadly construed"). This account's edits consistently remove (well-sourced) negative information and attempt to present this topic in an unduly favorable light. For instance, here he removes two New York Times citations, leaving the article essentially unsourced. (The Times states that Sheldon's claims have "long been dismissed by most scientists as quackery", a conclusion which is unacceptable to Editor75439). He seeks to replace the content of these reliable sources with his personal opinion (that "Sheldon's somatotypology is the de-facto standard in modern developmental psychology.") He has edit-warred to remove the Times source; see [8], where he uses a false and deceptive edit summary (the quote is not from a "former Ivy League student", as even the briefest perusal of the source confirms). He was blocked for edit-warring to remove this sourced material on 3 December; since the block expired, he has immediately resumed edit-warring to remove the sources and material, with no further discussion ([9], [10], [11]). He clearly places his personal viewpoint above that of reliable sources (e.g. edit summary here), and has edit-warred to remove those reliable sources and replace them with his personal beliefs. His talkpage contributions (which start here) are less than constructive:
This is a single-purpose agenda account edit-warring to remove well-sourced information and to promote their personal beliefs. Since their behavior contravenes a large percentage of our content and behavioral policies, I think administrative action is warranted even in the absence of discretionary sanctions. Since the article falls under discretionary sanctions, the bar should be if anything a bit lower for dealing with this kind of editing. I would request a topic ban or, failing that, a 1RR restriction to at least tamp down the agenda-driven edit-warring to a manageable level. MastCell Talk 18:18, 4 December 2011 (UTC)
Discussion concerning Editor75439[edit]Statement by Editor75439[edit]Comments by others about the request concerning Editor75439[edit]The user in question has failed to follow Wikipedia policy multiple times, even after warnings, ranging from NPOV (removal of critical material, particularly material critical of fringe theories) to failing to discuss massive changes on the talk page to engaging in personal attacks (see Talk:Somatotype and constitutional psychology/Archive 1#Removed material not mentioned in the original source, self-published references; copyright status?). Most of the material this user has newly added (after the block was lifted) is extremely similar or identical to the previously-removed (for original syntheses, material not in citations, etc) material, thus being a de facto reversion. I have attempted to do some repair work on the article, including placing back in some critical material removed by Editor75439; we will see whether the user in question (if allowed) removes, reverts, or otherwise alters it from NPOV. Allens (talk) 18:29, 4 December 2011 (UTC)
Result concerning Editor75439[edit]
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FergusM1970
[edit]FergusM1970 (talk · contribs) blocked 24 hours and topic-banned from articles within the scope of WP:TROUBLES for three months. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 16:38, 6 December 2011 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning FergusM1970[edit]
Edit warring against consensus and against multiple editors. My offer for him to self-revert and avoid being reported was met with this and revert #4. Since starting this request editor has now made a fifth revert in a 24 hour period..
Discussion concerning FergusM1970[edit]Statement by FergusM1970[edit]The city is called Londonderry. That's it's legal name. There is no dispute about this, therefore it's ridiculous for people to insist that the nickname "Derry" is given prominence over the actual name. Multiple editors acting together to force me to either break 3RR or leave false information in an article is abusive. I request that the users who have reverted my edits are required to prove that the city is NOT properly named Londonderry, and that if they cannot do this they are subjected to appropriate sanctions. --FergusM1970 (talk) 11:38, 6 December 2011 (UTC) Comments by others about the request concerning FergusM1970[edit]You'd think someone so obsessed with accuracy wouldn't replace the text "While the city is more usually known as Derry" with "also called Derry by Irish nationalists" despite the references he removed saying "but today most people just call it Derry, whatever their politics" and "Popular opinion has it that nationalists call it Derry while Protestants call it Londonderry. However, as with most things in Northern Ireland, it's not always as simple as that. Many Protestants also refer familiarly to the city as Derry". Of course we (well, most of us I hope) all can see therefore the edits aren't related to accuracy at all, but FergusM1970 editing based on his own opinions. WP:ROPE springs to mind with this editor, based on his current talk page posts I'm not brimming with confidence that the behaviour won't continue once his current block expires, so we'll probably be back here again in a few days time I think.... 2 lines of K303 13:15, 6 December 2011 (UTC) Result concerning FergusM1970[edit]
I've enacted a short (standard 24hrs) block to stop the edit-warring, because FergusM1970 had already broken 3RR and seemed unwilling to stop. I'll leave this open for the moment to determine if further discretionary sanctions are appropriate. Fut.Perf. ☼ 11:56, 6 December 2011 (UTC)
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Jonchapple
[edit]Jonchapple blocked for six weeks by HJ Mitchell for edit warring. AGK [•] 10:41, 8 December 2011 (UTC) |
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Request concerning Jonchapple[edit]
Discussion concerning Jonchapple[edit]Statement by Jonchapple[edit]Ed, I reverted an IP-hopping vandal. Bretonbanquet above or somebody else would have done exactly the same if I hadn't've got there first, because the edit added an incorrect piece of pointy vandalism that directly contravened both Wikipedia consensus and the bare facts. And if you really think I'm making "no effort to curtial my inappropriate edits", we must really be looking at a different list of contributions. I see a set of useful, contructive, good-faith edits that are helping to make this project a more accurate resource. I don't know what else I can say. JonCTalk 22:28, 7 December 2011 (UTC) Comments by others about the request concerning Jonchapple[edit]Can an article about a racing driver be reasonably construed as being related to The Troubles, Irish nationalism, and British nationalism in relation to Ireland..? Bretonbanquet (talk) 21:25, 7 December 2011 (UTC)
Result concerning Jonchapple[edit]
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VanishedUser314159
[edit]IP blocked one year. A named party of two Arbcom cases abused the Right To Vanish, evading both an AE block and a topic ban by actively editing on fringe topics during his ban. EdJohnston (talk) 04:22, 10 December 2011 (UTC) |
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Request concerning VanishedUser314159[edit]
Not necessary. He knows he can't do this.
It's a shame it's come to this, but this is a mess. With all the courtesy blanking on his behalf, the misuse of the Right to Vanish, socking, and block evasions - I had to say something. I always found him to be a real asset at wikipedia and I don't have any opinion about the arbitration cases he was party in-I didn't follow them. It was only because in a discussion with him yesterday, I recognized the IP as VanishedUser314159 and looked him up that I learned he was currently blocked. But to continue editing he should come out in the open, seek his block be removed and edit under his user account.
Discussion concerning VanishedUser314159[edit]Statement by 128.59.171.194[edit]I know that as an IP my abilities to edit on Wikipedia are limited. I encourage any administrator who thinks it appropriate to block this IP if you feel the contributions have been in any way disruptive. I do not have access to VanishedUser314159's account, nor do I have any desire to create a user account. 128.59.171.194 (talk) 02:17, 9 December 2011 (UTC) Statement by VanishedUser314159[edit]Comments by others about the request concerning VanishedUser314159[edit]Result concerning VanishedUser314159[edit]
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Someone35
[edit]Someone35 (talk · contribs) banned from all articles, discussions, and other content related to the Arab-Israeli conflict, broadly construed across all namespaces for one year, expiry 10 Dec 2012 --WGFinley (talk) 06:00, 11 December 2011 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Someone35[edit]
This is not daycare, and we should not have to deal with children running around making a nuisance of themselves. The user's disruption has escalated from a minor annoyance to active disruption, and I request that his or her indefinite topic ban be reimposed. When the user can demonstrate that he or she has the required maturity to edit in the topic area the ban can be rescinded, but I think it is clear that after the 3 month ban that this child still is not fit to edit in the topic area.
Discussion concerning Someone35[edit]Statement by Someone35[edit]I'll reply to each edit: 1. How is this a violation of any guideline? 2. Was there anything offensive in this question? 3. Am I not allowed to involve in a discussion about a place that I know well? I even visited there a few months ago so I am knowledgeable in that article. 4. That edit was underlined for a purpose... 5. Did I mention you there? See who's wikihounding (or stalking) others...
Response to WGFinley: Nableezy is the only editor who complains about me. Once I saw asad's warning I removed the problematic sentences. But I went out for about 3 hours so I only saw it after Nableezy complained here.-- Someone35 16:13, 9 December 2011 (UTC)
Response to the admins: Then give me a one year interaction ban with Nableezy, since I don't engage in edit wars with other users, or make problematic edits in Israeli Palestinian conflict articles (I am not edit warring or violating any rule there). Also, again, I removed the sentences Nableezy complains about in the moment I saw asad's warning, but apparently it was too late and Nableezy already wrote the report here.-- Someone35 06:46, 10 December 2011 (UTC) Comments by others about the request concerning Someone35[edit]
@WGFinley We shouldn't continue to add a little more time and send them back out to cause issues when their TBAN expires. Precisely. So why add a little more time and send Someone35 back out when his (proposed year-long) topic ban expires? Why not reinstate his indefinite topic ban? Hasn't he made good use of the WP:ROPE he was given? — Malik Shabazz Talk/Stalk 20:09, 9 December 2011 (UTC)
I'm Someone35's mentor (agreed after his initial topic ban) so unfortunately I'm partly responsible for this, as I only noticed and replied to all this on Friday morning. The mentoring work that we've done so far clearly hasn't successfully dealt with the issue that Someone35 has extremely strong views about certain groups whose stated aim is to destroy his country, that he (wrongly) associates opposing viewpoints on Wikipedia with those groups, and that he not only focuses his feelings about this on Nableezy as an individual, but also doesn't restrain himself from expressing those feelings on Wikipedia. (In retrospect, probably the first part of the mentoring should have been "let's talk about Nableezy and your feelings about Nableezy", but instead I took a more conventional approach.) The comments made are indefensible; there's no world in which one asks a on-wiki opponent "do you have a job?" just out of curiosity, and secondly I don't see how Someone35 or anyone else can expect the comments about paid editing to be interpreted as other than referring to Nableezy. I would prefer WGFinley's suggestion of a year long topic ban rather than an indefinite one, though the only argument I have in support of that is that for a teenager, a year is a very long time. An alternative suggestion would be an indefinite one-way interaction action ban to stay away from Nableezy, to include not editing any articles where Nableezy already edits. I do feel that if adhered to, this would prevent the expression of personal animosity that is the focus of the problem here. I'm aware that one-way interaction bans are generally frowned upon because of the potential for provocation in the other direction, but Nableezy has been very restrained in dealing with this, so I don't believe that would be an issue. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 23:58, 9 December 2011 (UTC)
Someone35's interaction with Nableezy is unfortunate, and exhibits an immaturity that should not be tolerated. It does seem, however, that it's not driven by subject or content issues, rather by a personal one with an editor who is himself controversial when it comes to this topic area, as it's not the first time conflicts have risen around him. A topic ban may not be a focused enough solution, wherein a long interaction ban would more likely address the root of the problematic behavior. If within or after such a ban, Someone35 continues to behave this way towards Nableezy, then there would be good reason to widen the scope of the ban to include the topic. --MichaelNetzer (talk) 18:28, 10 December 2011 (UTC)
Result concerning Someone35[edit]
Of Nableezy's submitted diffs 2 is a pretty blatant personal attack and 4 and 5 are battleground fodder. Previous ban was 3 months, I believe a year off of P-I is in order as this isn't even a month since the last TBAN expired. We shouldn't continue to add a little more time and send them back out to cause issues when their TBAN expires. --WGFinley (talk) 16:05, 9 December 2011 (UTC)
Agree that the case for reinstating the editor's I/P topic ban is strong. I suggest that the indefinite topic ban be reimposed, with the option for review of the ban after one year and then every three months thereafter. EdJohnston (talk) 04:33, 10 December 2011 (UTC)
Due to the appeal of Someone35's mentor, I'm inclined to go with one year as pretty ample and don't want to make this too complicated. So I will make it a year TBAN and wrap this up. --WGFinley (talk) 05:57, 11 December 2011 (UTC) |
Wgfinley
[edit]See my comment in the result subsection. NW (Talk) 22:42, 12 December 2011 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Wgfinley[edit]
WGFinley has seemingly lost sight of his of his duties as an Administrator on Wikipedia. As to why I feel this has happened, I will not speculate it was do to his preference towards a certain POV, unwillingness to admit a mistake or even flat out arrogance, because I quite frankly see that as irrelevant. This all stems from his adjudication of the User:Jiujitsuguy case. In quick summary, Jiujitsuguy violated WP:Consensus (in particular WP:Legality of Israeli settlements), by removing reference to Katzrin being an Israeli settlement in the Golan Heights. Jiujitsuguy later self-reverted. Something is important to note here: that although the complaint was originally filed for JJGs removal of a consensus statement, more diffs were added which shows that Jiujitsuguy deliberately abused sources to push a certain POV. This was especially concerning considering JJGs recent expiration of a topic-ban of, which he received largely for misrepresenting sources. I am not going to copy the text verbatim, but it is clear to see from JJGs most recent A/E case he distorted sources to push a POV that Mount Hermon is in Israel. Both User:EdJohnston and User:Timotheus Canens both seemed to agree that there was an issue with JJGs sources and were willing to discuss the matter. But WGFinley was not interested at all. WGF was asked multiple times to please address the issue of JJG misrepresenting sources, he either did not, or claimed that he already did. I still, until this very second, have no idea where he purportedly addressed the issues.
Besides the multiple requests on the A/E thread, WGF was asked on his talk page to explain the issue:
WGF's confusion of the matter was further illustrated by claiming that JJG had "self-reverted" himself at Mount Hermon, which he never did (see Mount Hermon's history): This was the only other time WGF even brought up JJG and Mount Hermon in the same post. Neither of the diffs refer to him addressing misrepresentation of sources at all, whatsoever:
Lets pretend for a second that we want to accept WGF's position that Nableezy was uncivil and, therefore, WGF wouldn't want to respond to someone who was acting to so "uncivil" towards him. Fine. But what is the excuse for the other three editors who posed the same question? WP:ADMIN clearly states, "Administrators are expected to respond promptly and civilly to queries about their Wikipedia-related conduct and administrator actions and to justify them when needed." WGF can't just say he has responded to something he didn't even respond to push the issue aside. He should be accountable for his actions, he can't use ambiguity to disguise bad judgement calls he has made as an admin. He seems to have an issue with editors questioning decisions he makes, as is evidenced by the amount of "discussion closed" hats he places on his talk page. But what has become even more hard to bear in this whole debate is the fact that some admins are only catching the tail-end of the situation and noticing Nableezy's perceived "incivility", without even understanding the context of the situation. By doing that, some admins seem willing to sacrifice one "uncivil" editor to better the so-called "Project", but not look at the larger issue of POV-pushing and falsification of sources. Being an admin on A/E is not about personal vendettas or tallying up blocks and bans, it is about using tools in a proper way to make the encyclopedia experience more reliable for the average person trying to get information on a topic based on a simple Google search. This admin, in particular, has decided that a more important issue for A/E is the is an editors perceived incivility, but not one editors manipulation of sources that degrade the quality of the encyclopedia. I find that extremely distasteful. I don't think WGF's adminship should be recalled, but I do think he should not be allowed to adjudicate anything further relating to ARBPIA. He should also be reminded, that he should be required to give a clear response when serious questions (like falsification of sources) are asked to him.
Discussion concerning Wgfinley[edit]Statement by Wgfinley[edit]Comments by others about the request concerning Wgfinley[edit]Comment by Zero0000[edit]I do not support any actual sanction against WGFinley. However, I wish to record that several times I have been quite startled by the apparent animosity that WGFinley shows towards Nableezy, very little of which seems to be justified by the circumstances, and by the lack of logic displayed by WGFinley when discussing matters related to Nableezy. The AE process should not only be dispassionate, but should appear dispassionate to a disinterested reader. That is not the case here. I think WGFinley should voluntarily retire from AE cases involving Nableezy. Zerotalk 22:54, 12 December 2011 (UTC) Comment by Shuki[edit]The best defense is a good offense We see 'friend' Nableezy about to get an indef, so best thing to do is attack the admin. Nice. --Shuki (talk) 22:31, 12 December 2011 (UTC)
Comment by Nableezy[edit]But to the substance. I think that WGF has demonstrated that he lacks the competence to be administering the topic area. I do not know what can be done about this short of him either voluntarily agreeing to refrain from doing so or an RFC and arbitration case to force him to do so. I dont know that AE is a venue where this can be addressed. But WGF has repeatedly made false statements on AE, and has repeatedly refused to provide any explanation for those clearly false statements. I have asked him several times to this comment. He has steadfastly refused to do so. The comment he made is simply untrue, and in his refusal to acknowledge that he, in my opinion, forfeited the right to act as an admin in this area. But again, I dont know that AE is equipped to deal with incompetence by supposed uninvolved admins. nableezy - 22:40, 12 December 2011 (UTC) Result concerning Wgfinley[edit]
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- Fair enough, the issue has been moved to the administrators' noticeboard [27] -asad (talk) 22:52, 12 December 2011 (UTC)
Arbitration enforcement action appeal by The Devil's Advocate
[edit]The block being appealed has since expired, which would seem to make this appeal moot. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 01:52, 14 December 2011 (UTC) |
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Procedural notes: The rules governing arbitration enforcement appeals are found in this 2010 ArbCom motion. According to that motion, a "clear, substantial, and active consensus of uninvolved editors" is required to overturn an arbitration enforcement action. To help determine any such consensus, involved editors may make brief statements in separate sections but should not edit the section for discussion among uninvolved editors. Editors are normally considered involved if they are in a current dispute with the sanctioning or sanctioned editor, or have taken part in disputes (if any) related to the contested enforcement action. Administrators having taken administrative actions are not normally considered involved for this reason alone (see WP:UNINVOLVED).
Statement by The Devil's Advocate[edit]The policy on topic bans indicates there are exemptions to topic bans where the editor is addressing a legitimate concern about the ban. I believed the concerns I was raising fell under such an exemption. Other than the concerns obvious from my comment, like the editor who pushed for the topic ban apparently using it to game consensus to revert uncontroversial changes on the disputed article, I provided several more concerns on my talk page. My understanding is that one reason a topic ban provides for exemptions in the case of notifying admins about violations of interaction bans is because a violation on the part of one individual inherently invites a violation by the other individual. In other words, one editor should not be baiting another individual into violating a ban and an editor under a topic ban should raise concerns about such baiting to an admin. Here I went to the admin who had specifically imposed the topic ban, indicating I had no intention of violating the topic ban. Given all of this, I believe this was not worthy of a block. Even if one argues that it was a violation, the circumstances were sufficiently ambiguous under the policy that the imposition of any block seems inappropriate.--The Devil's Advocate (talk) 16:15, 9 December 2011 (UTC)
Response to WG on block appeal[edit]While I understand the concern about a comment about a user's conduct becoming a discussion, this would be true for any exemption. Mentioning an editor's actions in violation of an interaction ban, for instance, may cause the other editor to respond in a way that leads to further violations, but the point is where the comment is made. An admin can hardly argue that he would not be able to control what is occurring on his own talk page. That is why I made the comment there. Perhaps it would have been better to send an e-mail, something I considered, but when using e-mail there is a concern about it being perceived as an inappropriate effort to lobby in secret. I further feel I had to mention why the action was of concern and that required some specificity. To be clear, it was not a general concern about an editor continuing to make contributions to the article, but the attempt to undo uncontroversial contributions of mine that had been standing for weeks and the way that attempt was being portrayed. The editor who filed the request leading to my topic ban was using the topic ban resulting from that request to revert changes of mine and give them the illusion of real consensus by implying that it was a compromise being put up for discussion, even though the editor knew the person who was being reverted was not going to be able to provide input on the "compromise" over those edits. Since the topic ban ten days ago this proposal has been the editor's only action on the article. That, from my perspective, is quite a serious concern about the ban. Editors using AE to game the system is certainly a problem and goes straight to the question of whether the request was made in good faith in the first place. One impression I got from the proposal was that the editor was being vindictive and attempting to hound me by undoing as many of my contributions as possible until I stopped contributing to the article altogether. It should be added that this specifically concerned an issue I raised with WG about the topic ban being extended to talk pages as it seems unlikely the editor making this proposal would have done so knowing I could quickly chime in to point out all the deceptive language being used. Finally, despite what WG says, I have no real animosity towards any of the editors contributing to the article. On several occasions I have sought the opinions of these editors on changes to the article and have specifically sought to accommodate their concerns. Sometimes I have found them cooperative, and other times I have found them to be the opposite. After the edit-warring block issued by EdJohnston it appears the latter response has become more common.--The Devil's Advocate (talk) 23:52, 9 December 2011 (UTC) Statement by WGFinley[edit]TDA states he was just inquiring about his ban, I think that's clearly not the case as shown in what he wrote on my talk page.[28] TDA was given a 30 day TBAN for 9/11 articles (log) resulting from a previous AE Request. My notification to him is very clear to him about the terms including, "...any discussion of that topic on other pages. While he may have been speaking about the ban to complain about it he went on about the conduct of another user, how they were making changes to the article and this was wrong because he was banned. This is a common reaction of TBAN users but as we had previously discussed his TBAN in excruciating great detail there was no ambiguity he was under a TBAN. If the other user he was referring to responded it would just make the article talk page out of my talk page and clearly that's what TBAN's are intended to prevent - further disturbance on the article. I've tried very hard to encourage TDA to work collaboratively but he can't seem to put aside the animosity he has against other users, and one user in particular, in order to edit harmoniously.--WGFinley (talk) 22:49, 9 December 2011 (UTC)
Statement by Jordgette[edit]Am I expected to defend myself for posting in my userspace a draft of suggested changes to an article,[29] and asking for community input,[30] without making a single actual revert or edit to the article in question since November 21? No thank you; I will use that time to improve an article instead. But if it would make you feel better, I'll ask someone else to move over those changes once discussion is closed. (Or maybe that's still "gaming consensus"...I'll take my chances.) -Jordgette [talk] 01:51, 10 December 2011 (UTC) Statement by (involved editor 2)[edit]Discussion among uninvolved editors about the appeal by The Devil's Advocate[edit]Result of the appeal by The Devil's Advocate[edit]
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Cptnono
[edit]Cptnono (talk · contribs) advised to avoid articles where Nableezy is active; Nableezy (talk · contribs) advised to moderate his tone; all parties to the edit war at Irgun admonished. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 01:33, 14 December 2011 (UTC) | |||
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. | |||
Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Cptnono[edit]
The notice of the interaction ban specified that the user may not Undo any edit by Nableezy to any page except your own user or user talk pages (by any means, including the rollback function). This is the first time Cptnono has ever edited the article Irgun. The user has also followed me to Palestinian Arabic having never edited that page before either. The same is true for the article Palestinian people. The user had also never edited that article in the past. I have avoided Cptnono with complete diligence, ensuring my compliance with the interaction ban, a ban that was placed due to the Ctpnonos tendentious hounding and repeated hurling of vexatious and unsupported accusations against me. I find it unbelievable that the last three articles edited by Cptnono were all edited for the very first time by the user, shortly after I edited them, and that Cptnono has some other way of explaining how he arrived at those articles besides by hounding my contributions. The diff listed is a straight forward violation of the ban, and the edits to Palestinian people and Palestinian Arabic are arguably also violations as they show that Cptnono continues with his tendentious hounding of my edits. I request the interaction ban be enforced and the user blocked.
@Mkativerata: Im not looking for a battle, I expressly wish to not have to deal with somebody such as Cptnono at all. But he actively seeks me out. The last time this happened he repeatedly directed absurd accusations at me without ever providing even a whiff of any evidence, while hounding me from article to article drunkenly daring others to revert him. So I requested, and received, an interaction ban. Ive ignored several violations of it, but here we have as a set of edits the recurrence of the old pattern of following me around, seemingly just to annoy me. Cptnono, until the last days, had never edited Irgun, Palestinian people, or Palestinian Arabic. I have been editing each within the last week. It isnt really surprising that the user has revived this old sport of trying to keep tabs on me, but is annoying, and at least one of the recent edits is a straightforward violation of the interaction ban. nableezy - 04:18, 11 December 2011 (UTC)
@WGF, and I am still dismayed that an admin who has repeatedly distorted evidence and refused to answer questions about factually incorrect claims made still considers himself qualified to comment at AE. If forced to choose which behavior is more objectionable, my "tone" or your repeated willful distortion of evidence, I would have to say that yours is. nableezy - 20:16, 11 December 2011 (UTC)
@Calil, there has been no evidence brought that I am attempting to "game the system". You raise past topic bans as evidence of a failure to adjust actions, but that is simply untrue. All of my past topic bans were the result of issues with reverting, and I have had no such issues in quite some time. The "case for boomerang" is simply an admin upset that I call him on his actions and he refuses to both address the issues and further refuses to even be questioned. nableezy - 15:44, 12 December 2011 (UTC)
@Ed, I recognize that AE is not as you a say a precision machine and further I agree that my presentation of the issues was not optimal. And I will say that I think the few admins that deal with arbitration enforcement do, for the most part, a fine job. There are a few admins that I think are either overly harsh or overly lenient, but all in all most do a fine job doing a very difficult task, and all of you should be thanked for taking on such a task. I admittedly have a sharp tongue, but I dont think I have ever questioned an admins competence to be standing here in judgment prior to this event. It isnt simply the failure to respond, it is the failure to admit a wrong, to refuse to acknowledge a mistake, that is what causes my outrage. WGF wrote something that was flat out untrue, and despite repeated, and initially respectful and civil, attempts to raise the issue, he refused to acknowledge even reading the diff in question. I repeatedly attempted to get him to explain his comment, he still has not, first refusing to do so at his talk page and saying he will only discuss the issue on AE, and now citing my attempt to discuss the issue on AE as disrupting AE. How else do you expect me to react? An admin who refuses to justify his comments, who has made demonstrably false claims on AE, who has refused to explain why he made such claims, is now actively campaigning for sanctions against me. And doing so on the basis of my bringing what was a prima facie violation of an interaction ban. The same admin who equated the repeated deliberate distortion of sources to insert factual errors into an encyclopedia article to Nableezy's tone. Please, and I ask this sincerely, how should I react to that? nableezy - 03:14, 13 December 2011 (UTC)
Discussion concerning Cptnono[edit]Statement by Cptnono[edit]I only looked at the edit summary between Supreme Deliciousness and Jujitsuguy. I did not realize that so many people were involved, including Nableezy. So my bad for continuing an edit war. And I went to Palestinian People after seeing the comment by Newt Gingirch on CNN. Cptnono (talk) 18:42, 11 December 2011 (UTC) Now that I've had more coffee this morning I want to expand on my statement. I was under the impression that the interaction ban was put in place partially to limit disruption at AE. This is a whole lot of needless drama. Nableezy and Gatoclass assume I was intentionally reverting an edit made by Nableezy. I did not know at the time that he was involved at the article since I was checking a diff I saw between two editors I have had many interactions with. Although Nableezy might think it is all about him, I am actually interested in the Palestinian people and the fringe (some would certainly call it racist) debate over if the Palestinians are their actually a unique subset within the Arab population (for the record I do not see how they cannot be). The Newt Gingrich comment of an "invented people" reminded me of the issue. The line I tagged with the clarify template was because I was confused by the line. I was also under the impression that Tiamut was the primary author of the Palestinian People article and considered making the edit I made a year ago but decided against it to not ruffle her feathers. It is not always about Nableezy. The interaction ban is already being ignored right now but I am not going to make it worse by commenting on what I think the admins should do.Cptnono (talk) 20:41, 11 December 2011 (UTC)
Comments by others about the request concerning Cptnono[edit]Comment by Zero0000[edit]I don't see "unless someone else has reverted the same edit in the meanwhile" in Cptnono's interaction ban. Indeed, under such an interpretation it is hard to see how an interaction ban could have any effect since there is always someone else around to throw the first punch. Cptnono's edit is a prima facie interaction ban violation. If it is judged to not be a violation, then the interaction ban should be clarified and all parties made aware of the change. Punishing Nableezy for making a report on a perfectly reasonable interpretation would be quite outrageous. More generally, while it is reasonable to be frustrated and annoyed at the level of dispute in this area, taking it out on those who bring disputes to the proper authorities (which this board is supposed to be) is not an appropriate way of dealing with it. All that does is make the serial violators more bold. Zerotalk 03:56, 11 December 2011 (UTC) Comment by Mkativerata[edit]
Comment by Malik Shabazz[edit]First, I'm laughing to myself that you think a self-revert is a 1RR violation. But moreso, I'm laughing that Cptnono, who added Category:Resistance movements, didn't notice that it was already there (having been restored by AndresHerutJaim). — Malik Shabazz Talk/Stalk 04:16, 11 December 2011 (UTC)
Statement by Broccolo[edit]Per WGFinley, Cptnono has never reverted Nableezy, and as Nableezy said he and Cptnono are under interaction ban. With this frivolous AE Nableezy violated his interaction ban with Cptnono. Could you please enforce the ban by sanctioning the filer? Broccolo (talk) 04:48, 11 December 2011 (UTC) Comment by MichaelNetzer[edit]During my short time in the I/P area, I'd likely be considered someone who'd be happy to see a sanction against Nableezy in this case. We've had heated exchanges where I've tried to get across the folly of aggressive editing. I've repeatedly stressed that reporting to AE is not a method I choose for solving disputes. Over the last few days, and through a mutual effort to resolve an extended disagreement, I was gratified to see a better collaborative spirit developing between us. Like Mkativerata, I believe this request for action against Cptono is misplaced and unnecessary. But I also agree with him that a TBAN, especially multiple ones, could be an overkill. I'd certainly prefer to see a less trigger happy finger when it comes to filing such requests. However, I'm of a mind that a more creative approach is necessary to help ease tensions. I'm not sure how to convey this need other than by setting an example. If I could, I'd place a reverse interaction ban on both editors so they can only edit together, on one specific article, within a topic other than I/P - and would only lift the ban when they become sufficiently cooperative. I know that's a bit of a stretch and only suggest it rhetorically, to help stress the need for a change in attitude here. --MichaelNetzer (talk) 07:05, 11 December 2011 (UTC) @Nableezy: We may foreseeably have a proper venue for those issues between us, but I don't believe this is the one, so I won't answer your misrepresentations here. For the purposes of this report, I believe you need to tone down the aggressive approach in situations you don't agree with. It only makes things difficult for yourself and everyone else around you. It will also inevitably all boomerang anyway, with even more force than before. Please take that to heart. --MichaelNetzer (talk) 17:43, 12 December 2011 (UTC) Comment by Gatoclass[edit]Whether or not it counts as a revert if you revert the same content as the other party in your interaction ban that someone restored in an intermediate edit is a question that may need clarification. However, when you are under an interaction ban with someone, you are obviously asking for trouble when you start editing the same pages the other party has recently edited, and especially when you start reverting the same content. So whether or not one thinks Cptnono has technically violated his ban, I think it pretty clear he has violated the ban in spirit. Whether that is grounds for sanction an uninvolved admin can decide, but I would certainly think a warning at the very least to avoid such behaviour in future would be appropriate. Gatoclass (talk) 07:55, 11 December 2011 (UTC) The Wordsmith's comment is about the most sensible I've seen in this case yet. I suggest that Cptnono be advised to take more care not to edit in a way that could be interpreted as wikihounding and to leave it at that. Someone may also want to start a discussion about the revert-with-intermediate-edits issue in the meantime. Other than that, I think we should all take The Wordsmith's advice and find something a bit more wholesome to do at this time of year. Gatoclass (talk) 15:14, 12 December 2011 (UTC) Nishidani[edit]Reluctantly again, since I think only admins and the parties directly concerned should comment here. 'I am still dismayed at Nableezy's conduct on AE.' What does conduct mean here? Contextually it suggests unacceptable behaviour. All I see is a report requesting deliberation, and possibly action. If Nableezy's conduct is thought disconcerting, it should be explained exactly in what this consists. Does it mean there is a quota for filing reports? Nishidani (talk) 18:49, 11 December 2011 (UTC)
Oops by asad[edit]Concerning this, I hit rollback on my mobile phone browser on accident. Sorry folks. -asad (talk) 03:56, 12 December 2011 (UTC) Plot Spoiler[edit]I think we're setting a very dangerous precedent by closing this without even a figurative slap on the wrist for Nableezy's quite ugly conduct. In the future, other editors will now have a strong basis for uncivil conduct and personal attacks against admins on AE, without sanction (lest we be playing favorites). This is without even getting into the fact that Nableezy and his gang are now openly trying to intimidate this admin into complete silence on the Administrators' noticeboard. Very ugly precedents indeed... Plot Spoiler (talk) 15:38, 13 December 2011 (UTC)
Conduct of WGFinley[edit]
Comment by Devil's Advocate[edit]
Closing Summary by AgadaUrbanit[edit]![]() Seventeen WP:AE cases were initiated in 2011 by User:Nableezy. The success rate is not very impressive, especially lately, but there is still an active discussion on that at WP:AN. My calculus teacher believed that if you need to peek an arbitrary number 17 is the way to go. Not too small not to large and deliciously prime. However User:Nableezy is expecting to squeeze #18 till AE administrators log out for Christmas break, see diff.
Probably that would be an intensification of existing conflict evident from this collision in this WP:BLPN discussion. Maybe some Triumvirate of uninvolved administrators could close the RfC at WP:V - the discussion is over there. This discussion here is a Groundhog Day anyways, see AgadaUrbanit (talk) 23:20, 13 December 2011 (UTC) Result concerning Cptnono[edit]
This is a pretty contrived and vexatious request from Nableezy and given his conduct on a recent AE filing we he refused to accept the decision and continue the discussion after it was closed I think it's time for a ban from WP:AE again as well as another TBAN. There's no "I got here first, now you can't edit" in an interaction ban and Nableezy knows it. There's a 4 day lapse between Nableezy's edit and Cptnono's and this revert by Brewcrewer which was reverted by DePiep which was reverted by JJG which was reverted by SD which was reverted by Malik which was reverted again by Malik in violation of 1RR (though of himself and I expect there's an explanation) which was reverted by AndresHerutJaim which was finally reverted by Cptnono as Nableezy outlined. Of course then DePiep needed to revert that which was then reverted by JungerMan who in turn was reverted by Malik again until I brought an end to this nonsense by protecting the page.. So, in making this report Nableezy ignored the 7 previous reversions prior to Cptnono.
I stated writing a remedy but I believe long term TBANs of multiple parties are in order here and will wait for others to weigh in. Some of these folks are fresh off of TBANs and are revert warring the placement of a category in an article. --WGFinley (talk) 03:01, 11 December 2011 (UTC)
I'd suggest a remedy of trouts all around. Seriously, everyone needs to go outside and enjoy some sunshine (unless it is raining, in which case I would strongly suggest bringing along an umbrella). The WordsmithTalk to me 14:23, 12 December 2011 (UTC)
Conduct of Nableezy[edit]Not sure there was any doubt on this but, here we go. At the risk of a firestorm (although the previous 3 week AE request seems to constitute one already) this appears to be a clear boomerang.
How many admins who have the temerity to work AE do we need to lose before this nonsense stops? Every comment he makes to someone who dares disagree with him is dripping with venom. Many admins simply just give up and determine it's not worth the headache and quit participating here (don't' think i need to name names). Given the totality of this conduct, and a ton of other conduct (interaction bans, blocks for violating bans, etc) I haven't even cited, it is clear Nableezy believes Wikipedia is a battleground for despite all these actions and sanctions Nableezy continues to disrupt AE and the P-I article space. I submit a ban from submitting or commenting cases not concerning him on AE is in order along with a topic ban from P-I for 1 year which is the source of this conduct. --WGFinley (talk) 02:50, 12 December 2011 (UTC)
Moving For Closure[edit]If I'm reading the consensus correctly:
Do I have it correct? I will agree to all these points. --WGFinley (talk) 14:46, 13 December 2011 (UTC)
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Boothello
[edit]Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Request concerning Boothello
[edit]- User who is submitting this request for enforcement
- Hipocrite (talk) 12:40, 13 December 2011 (UTC)
- User against whom enforcement is requested
- Boothello (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
- Sanction or remedy to be enforced
- Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Race_and_intelligence#Case_amendments
- Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
- 01:13, 13 December 2011 Dishonest edit summary - not actually worried about it appearing twice, rather, just acting as an article gatekeeper to prevent improvement
- 21:03, 13 November 2011 Varnish
- 03:49, 27 October 2011 Varnish
- 21:06, 30 October 2011 Varnish
- Pretty much all of this editors mainspace contributions are varnish on the reputation of scientific racists.
- Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required)
- Warned on 02:12, 6 May 2011 by Aprock (talk · contribs)
- Additional comments by editor filing complaint
This single purpose account is continuing the behavior that other accounts were banned for in August 2010 - consistent violations of NPOV. Further, while it's obvious that this is not the users first account (second edit shows facility with templates beyond what any new user has - [64], and fourth edit already knows what "OR" is - without having edited a talk page, ever.), the user is evasive about their prior history [65], even though their IP is in the public domain and has only one edit - [66], though it is in exactly the same metropolitan area as now topic banned David.Kane (who, shockingly enough, stopped editing with any regularity just 3 weeks after this SPA showed up!)
We don't need POV pushing SPA's in the space. Solve this.
- In regards to Boothello's response - It's fabricated - in 2010, he states he was engaged in a "college wikipedia project." Then, all of a sudden, we're one year further and Boothello, out of the blue, only edits in this topic space because that's where all his "post-secondary education lies." But if he does have a "post-secondary education," he only started it 3 months ago, and he did it in exactly the same location as where he went to college - and - catch this - he never changed apartments. Yeah, that's likley. Hipocrite (talk) 20:25, 13 December 2011 (UTC)
- In regards to Boothello's attempt to walk back his slip up - no, my friend, it cannot, and further, there is no college in Boston that allows you to study only one subject. Hipocrite (talk) 21:24, 13 December 2011 (UTC)
- Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested
Discussion concerning Boothello
[edit]Statement by Boothello
[edit]Sigh. The sock puppet question was addressed previously discussed here. The IP I used to edit under was 24.60.23.30 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log), and after joining I've still occasionally used that IP when I forgot to log in. Including edits from that IP, I've been active on Wikipedia since July 2009. Obviously a lot of what I did from that IP is stuff I shouldn't have done, but it's wrong that I first showed up after David.Kane was topic banned. I stopped vandalizing and started trying to contribute productively as part of a college wikipedia project in fall 2010. The only reason I'm "evasive" about this is because I'm embarrassed about the vandalism I used to do, and I think most other editors in my shoes would also be embarrassed about that. I have already invited both Hipocrite and Mathsci to file and SPI if they really think I'm a sockpuppet of a David.Kane, but neither of them has. The only evidence that he and I are the same person seems to be that we both live in Boston.
If you look at the diffs that Hipocrite posted, it's obvious this is a content dispute. Two of the four edits were the outcome of extensive talk page discussion, and also a followup to changes made by other editors. this was the outcome of discussion here between me and Maunus, and I made it to be consistent with a similar edit from him. this edit was the outcome of discussion here between me and Vsevolodkrolikov, where we agreed to reword this article's description of the Pioneer Fund and move it to another part of the article. He had already added the new wording to the lead and I was removing the old wording because the discussion was about moving the description, not duplicating it. this edit was removing content from an article about a book that had nothing to do with the book, it was about criticism of some of the author's unrelated work. If the article had been about book on any other topic, removing criticism of the author's unrelated work wouldn't have even been controversial.
I am a single purpose account, I'll admit. I edit solely in this topic because it's where my post-secondary education lies, and it's no mystery that IQ/race articles on wikipedia need more work than articles on most of my other interests. But for someone uninvolved looking at my edits, I don't think there's any evidence that I'm editing the articles in a way that isn't consistent with policy and consensus. This is clearly a thankless job. My decision to go from vandalism to productive editing has caused my edits to be criticized more rather than less. I've tried removing content from the articles that's excessively favorable to the hereditarian position about race and intelligence, such as [68] and [69] but nobody seems to notice that. Hipocrite is offended that I also remove excesses about the perspective that everyone who researches R&I is a racist. It's true that I make that kind of edit more often, but not because I think it's more important. When someone adds content that's excessive in the hereditarian direction it's usually dealt with right away by people like Aprock and Maunus. But currently people don't seem to care as much about avoiding excesses in the opposite direction. NPOV requires that we avoid both.
I'll also note that the "warning" from Aprock linked to above isn't an official warning in the discretionary-sanctions sense. Official warnings under discretionary sanctions can only be made by an uninvolved admin, and Aprock is not one.Boothello (talk) 20:11, 13 December 2011 (UTC)
Comment on Hipocrite
[edit]Since Hipocrite is who posted this thread, I should point out the string edits he's made to the article today. He's removed a lot of well-sourced information with the misleading edit summary "not a reliable source". [70] [71] [72] The sources that he removed with this edit summary include papers published in the journals Psychology, Public Policy and Law and The Open Psychology Journal, and also books published by Praeger, Methuen Publishing, Pergamon Press and W. W. Norton & Company. When Victor Chmara reverted the removal of these sources, Hipocrite threatened him with a ban. [73] [74]
There's no doubt many of these books and papers are controversial, but being controversial does not mean a source fails WP:RS. The claim that these aren't reliable sources seems like a flimsy justification to remove content that he disagrees with. I think this makes it even more obvious that Hipocrite is going to AE over a content dispute, and one where RS policy isn't on his side.Boothello (talk) 20:19, 13 December 2011 (UTC)
- @Hipocrite: by "post-secondary education" I just mean I'm in college. Post-secondary education can mean anything after high school. Higher education lists college as one of the things this term can mean, and that's how I'm using it. I never said psychology is the only thing I'm studying, but as I said, these are the articles where I feel able to help the most. If semantic nitpicking is the best evidence you can find that I'm a sockpuppet, I'm not interested in discussing it beyond this.Boothello (talk) 21:39, 13 December 2011 (UTC)
- @EdJohnston: I thought that to count as an official warning, a notification of the discretionary sanctions had to be logged on the arbitration case page. Only admins can do that. I also thought the point of this requirement is so that if a person's conduct is a problem, they can have a chance to change it before they're sanctioned. An uninvolved admin can be impartial enough to determine that. But it doesn't seem like it should mean the same thing if an involved editor "warns" their opponent during a dispute. Is a warning of the discretionary sanctions something that any editor can give to anyone else in any situation? If I've misunderstood this policy, I apologize.Boothello (talk) 21:07, 13 December 2011 (UTC)
- @Mathsci: you brought up that edit last time you accused me of being a sock, and I explained it then. That's a shared IP address between me and my roommate, and that edit was from him. After he made it, I asked him to stop with the vandalism and I think he did. I know vandalism is a problem from shared IPs, but I don't see how that's evidence of sockpuppetry.Boothello (talk) 21:25, 13 December 2011 (UTC)
- @Aprock: I honestly don't see anything in those comments that goes against policy. I think maybe you and I just have naturally different editing styles, rather than it being a simple matter of right and wrong. I've never been blocked for anything I did on R&I articles and no uninvolved admin has ever warned me about it either. But if an uninvolved admin looks at these diffs and decides I'm doing something wrong and issues me a warning, I'll listen and modify my behavior accordingly.
- For now I just want to point out the number of edits I've made that were obviously helpful. I've added a lot content from secondary sources and rewrote several sections to make them less undue, such as [75] [76] [77] Taking edits like this into account, I think my involvement in R&I articles has made the articles better than they would have been otherwise.Boothello (talk) 11:42, 15 December 2011 (UTC)
POV pushing?
[edit]I know I qualify as a single purpose account, and I know that SPAs need to edit neutrally instead of following an agenda. But I am very concerned that the admins commenting here are just taking it at Hipocrite and Aprock's word that my edits are not neutral. Can you please look at the diffs and decide for yourselves if they are? When I've removed criticism from any of these articles it's had an obvious policy justification, like removing criticism from the article about Rushton's book cited to sources that don't mention the book. And I've provided numerous examples of making edits in favor of the opposite perspective. Just being accused of POV pushing shouldn't be enough for a topic ban, I think admins need to look for themselves at the diffs to see if it's really the case.
The four editors who have been most consistently involved in this topic are Maunus, VsevelodKrolokov, Victor Chmara, and Aprock. Of these four, three do not have any problem with my editing. Maunus is the most significant because as Mathsci points out below, Maunus was initially suspicious of me, and I eventually won his trust. More recently he's commented that he thinks my editing shows me to be a reasonable person. [78] Maunus's perspective about R&I is the opposite of the POV I've been accused of pushing, and he does not by any means always agree with me about content, so I think it counts for a lot that he still thinks my editing is alright. This thread was posted at a time when he, VsevelodKrolokov, and Victor Chmara seem to be all inactive, so the selection of people commenting in this AE report is not a good sampling of how the regulars on these articles feel about my editing. Administrators NEED to decide whether I'm POV pushing by looking at the diffs, and not just reacting to the editors who've posted here.Boothello (talk) 22:25, 15 December 2011 (UTC)
Comments by others about the request concerning Boothello
[edit]Comment by Mathsci
[edit]The problems here have been around for a while, since the WP:ARBR&I case was closed. I was contemplating filing an SPI report, related to the account of David.Kane (talk · contribs), renamed Ephery (talk · contribs). This account has been inactive since April. Since a request has just been made here, it makes more sense to post the report here. Like all SPI reports, there is no certainty that I am correct.
Boothello is a single-purpose account editing solely in the area covered by WP:ARBR&I. His editing started not long after the case was closed. It is editing in one area but he usually makes only a few low-level edits a week. He intially edited logged off from a Brookline IP 24.60.23.30 (talk · contribs · WHOIS), which had been used by another user with a completely different editing profile, This has never been adequately explained by Boothello. His MO on wikipedia is indistinguishable from that of David.Kane/Ephery, indefinitely topic-banned from the same set of articles. He recently edited logged off by mistake from an IP address 71.232.157.202 (talk · contribs · WHOIS) which locates to within a radius of 1 or 2 km of the registered private address of the now defunct website User:Ephery/EphBlog. In this recent diff [79], Boothello inadvertently displayed an intimate knowledge of the mode of editing of Race and intelligence during the period in Spring 2010, a long while before his current account was registered. That is inconsistent with his previous statements on this noticeboard and more recently on his talk page[80] that, while editing as an IP, he was an "immature vandal"[81] but then reformed overnight to adopt an online persona indistinguishable from that of David.Kane.
I could be wrong of course, but his knowledge of WP:ARBR&I, of wikipedia editors only active during his "immature vandal" phase, his knowledge of editing of articles covered by the ban, his lobbying tactics, his edit warring on race and intelligence. his wikilawyering on Talk:Race and intelligence and elsewhere, in addition to the actual location of his IP, provide a strong case that this could be sockpuppetry by David.Kane. Mathsci (talk) 13:26, 13 December 2011 (UTC)
- Boothello gives an explanation of his own editing patterns which is not credible in any way. When he apparently had turned over a new leaf, infantile edits still appeared out of the blue [82]. Clearly these edits were made by somebody in quite a different age group (a generation or so below Boothello). That is supported by the fact that his named account has never suffered from such bizarre lapses into childish editing at any stage whatsoever. I would imagine that any long-term puppetmaster, active for a sufficiently long period (in this case just over one year), will inevitably make mistakes; that appears to be what has happened here. Boothello's claim that his editing is somehow related to a supposed university course in the Boston area also lacks any credibility whatsoever. Yes, his account has a single-minded agenda with "troubling overtones" (to use Newyorkbrad's euphemism), but that was already the problem with David.Kane's editing. He has been reminded on several occasions about the special editing conditions that apply to articles covered byWP:ARBR&I on his talk page. Here for example is a notification in May 2011 from Aprock.[83] Mathsci (talk) 21:06, 13 December 2011 (UTC)
- Boothello has now written a message to David.Kane.[84] Mathsci (talk) 00:29, 15 December 2011 (UTC)
- Comment: Although he has taken time off from wikipedia, a while back, when being lobbied by Boothello about Volunteer Marek,[85] Maunus did make some fairly frank comments directly to Boothello.[86] Mathsci (talk) 22:38, 15 December 2011 (UTC)
Statement by Volunteer Marek
[edit]There's most certainly a lot of WP:DUCK going on here, as well as the apparent match between the IP address and User:Ephery's blog location.
In addition to the fact that
- Boothello edits exclusively articles edited previously by Ephery,
- and the fact that he began editing shortly after Ephery was indef topic banned in the R&I case
- and the fact that the POV, as well as the approach and tone of the two users is pretty similar (though somewhat bland)
there is also the fact that there is no overlap between the two user's edits. Boothello began editing on November 8, 2010 and has made about 400 edits since then. Between November 8, 2010 and April 24, 2011 (the date of the last edit made by Ephery), there had been only two days on which both users made edits:
- February 6, 2011, Ephery made an edit at 12:36 and Boothello made an edit at 22:07 - a difference of almost twelve hours.
- April 24, 2011 (Ephery's last edit) - Ephery made an edit at 1:40 and Boothello made an edit at 4:15 - a difference more than two hours (it's possible that one account is being edited from home while the other from work or school).
For the rest of the time period the two accounts never edited on the same day.
So add that to the number of "coincidences" shared between two accounts both of which are located within a 2km radius (roughly, about 15 city blocks, or a 20 minute walk at a leisure pace).
Volunteer Marek 22:01, 13 December 2011 (UTC)
Comment by Professor marginalia
[edit]I saw this request on my watchlist but haven't followed the latest disputes in the involved pages. A major reason (but not the only one) that the Race articles are such a headache still is because of all the proxy editing. Even when these proxies are behaving reasonably, they tends to cause disruption because it takes a toll on other editors when they're aware they are being gamed here, leaving them few options but to look the other way or put up with it, play nice, and "collaborate" with those circumventing bans, blocks etc.
The disruption here is a case in point. Boothello's explanation is improbable. To go from nothing but juvenile horseplay like this, this and this to edit summaries about WP:SYN, WP:BLP and WP:V, a user now versed in even the minutia of the subject like this and this - in just a matter of months in some college class? It's more probable that the real something which explains this has been willfully left out of the story.
Boothello is a SPA. I don't know that Boothello is Ephery although there are coincidences. Following his topic ban, Ephery returned to the dispute on two occasions. The first was to defend Ferahgo in an AE request filed to topic ban her under WP:SHARE, editing on 28 Sep 2010. This request had languished for a few weeks without a decision until WeijiBaikeBianji's comment resumed discussions on 27 Sep 2010. Boothello opened his account on 27 Sep 2010 but this account was not used for comment on this AE. His first edit came abt 2 months after he opened the account. Ephery's next (and last) involvement in the R/I dispute was against WeijiBaikeBianji which was initiated by one and supported by a couple more proxy accounts. Boothello did not participate in the RFC either. But on the issue of enabling the proxies, his first edit to Talk:Race (classification of humans) was a defense of a proxy editor whose rant I (and others) reverted. Boothello took issue with me (and others) for removing this. The page had been plagued by socks and loons causing chaos with their soapboxing, rants and conspiracy mongering. This was one of many steps taken to get the discussion back on track, including page protections, archiving the soapboxing, etc and numerous warnings were left on the page that inappropriate stuff would be closed or removed if they continued. (This user was later ID'd as a banned sock and blocked.) What is strange is that Boothello left his objection there, but then immediately traveled over to Race and intelligence to complain about this again. He'd never before made an edit to that page either or its main space. Another month goes by there before we see any substantive content related edits or discussion. He was referee'ing for this sock in two pages, but why? He wasn't even active in either of those pages at the time, and his total contribution for either by that date was just a handful of edits posted nearly two months before.
It's stuff like that raise suspicions. And like I said, suspicions are enough in these sock-prone articles that tempers and good will are in short supply and consensus building is nearly impossible. Professor marginalia (talk) 01:23, 14 December 2011 (UTC)
Comment by aprock
[edit]Boothello is a single purpose account engaged in actively editing articles under R/I. The biggest problem faced with Boothello parallels the problems faced with some of the editors who have been topic banned. In pursuing his preferred POV, Boothello regularly misreads and misinterprets both sources and editors. The effect of this is to create an atmosphere of tendentious editing, where Boothello must be point by point convinced of even the smallest detail presented in the sources. This level of nit-picking would be useful and productive if (i) it was directed at actively editing and improving articles, and (ii) it was generally correct. Unfortunately, it is often neither. Much of this questioning of edits and sources has the effect of stalling any progress until Boothello is satisfied. This level of gatekeeping, whether well intentioned or intentional, is quite disruptive. aprock (talk) 03:53, 15 December 2011 (UTC)
- Causation and Correlation: In his final comment of his first WP discussion Boothello refers to the Alfred Binet article stating: "[IQ tests] were invented to predict scholastic performance". Reviewing the article makes it clear that instead the original IQ tests were invented to diagnose learning disabilities.
- Processing time: This talk page discussion has Boothello proposing to rewrite (and expand) coverage of some marginal content, which really doesn't merit significant coverage, saying: "Race and reaction time isn't discussed anywhere else on Wikipedia, so we have an obligation to make this part of the article informative to readers."
- While discussing the problematic issues with presenting extensive data instead of clear conclusions Boothello says: "lay people who are looking at the data will often see what they want to see, but that's just part of human psychology and I don't think we should try to avoid it."
- Talk:Race and intelligence: Ten days into an extensive discussion of a POV tag where several POV problems with the article are discussed, Boothello joins the discussion declaring: "I'm removing the tag." He then states "It is a misuse of the tag to add it just because you might find POV issues when you review the article next week." despite the fact that multiple editors have pointed out multiple problems with the article as written.
- Talk:IQ and the Wealth of Nations: I honestly don't have really the heart to dig through all of the giant wall of text. It's a perfect example of the kind of tendentious editing that can occur with civil POV pushers. The meat of the issue is that Boothello wanted a biased source to be used without specific mention of the kind of bias the source was encumbered with. Volunteer Marek might have more insight since he was primarily involved here.
- Talk:Ashkenazi Jewish intelligence: Another giant wall of text. This one I participated in. The discussion resolves around two secondary sources (a textbook and a professional report) which make similar statements about genetics, groups, and intelligence. One specifically singles out Ashkenazi Jews, while the other discusses the conclusions in terms of white and blacks. Much back and forth ensues about how to uses the sources, and whether or not they can be used, with Boothello objecting to the textbook because it was too old, and the report because while it discusses Ashkenazi Jews elsewhere, it does not do so explicitly when making the statement.
There is more as well, but time constraints impinge. aprock (talk) 06:33, 15 December 2011 (UTC)
Statement by EdJohnston on the request concerning Boothello
[edit]If User:David.Kane (now User:Ephery) were to have started a second account as Boothello, it would be a concern because Ephery is under an indefinite ban from the topic of race and intelligence. Boothello is not currently under any restriction, though he's been notified. It does not seem to be an open-and-shut case that this is the same editor. Those who want to look for comments with a similar point of view might begin with the wikistalk results comparing Ephery and Boothello. The topic of R&I is quite technical and it would be helpful if other editors who have worked on that topic could become aware of this AE. Does anyone object if one of the participants wants to notify others? They could (for example) notify everyone who participated in one of the arb cases, clarifications, or past AEs. It would also be helpful if someone could report whether Boothello's editing has been discussed on any admin boards, and provide links if they have been. EdJohnston (talk) 18:33, 13 December 2011 (UTC)
- @Boothello: The case at WP:ARBR&I provides for standard discretionary sanctions. Under the current wording of the latter page, any editor (not just an admin) may issue a warning:
Prior to any sanctions being imposed, the editor in question shall be given a warning with a link to the decision authorizing sanctions; and, where appropriate, should be counseled on specific steps that he or she can take to improve his or her editing in accordance with relevant policies and guidelines.
- Hence Boothello should consider himself warned under WP:ARBR&I per Aprock's notice. It would be especially ironic if someone who had filed an AE request last May asking for action against Volunteer Marek under the discretionary sanctions should need a specially-engraved notice of the existence of the discretionary sanctions. EdJohnston (talk) 20:35, 13 December 2011 (UTC)
Result concerning Boothello
[edit]- This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.
- The links between Boothello and other named accounts are suspicious but not, in my mind, definitive. Boothello's mode of interaction is certainly highly reminiscent of that of previously banned agenda accounts in this topic area (e.g. Captain Occam (talk · contribs), David.Kane (talk · contribs)). In fact, Captain Occam is at present making nearly identical arguments about "warnings" vs. "notifications" of discretionary sanctions (e.g. [87], [88]). But in the end, I think the matter of potential alternate account use is academic.
The last thing this topic area needs is another single-purpose account dedicated to promoting a minoritarian viewpoint. This is both a personal administrative viewpoint (see #17) and my reading of the gist of the ArbCom case. This topic area has been awash in such single-purpose agenda accounts. The fact that this particular account is suspicious as a sockpuppet is perhaps an aggravating factor, but I think the underlying issue addressed in the ArbCom case was that these sorts of agenda accounts are problematic and thus liable to discretionary sanctions.
As such, I would favor a topic ban, but I'm not going to close this thread or act unilaterally. I will await input and a decision from EdJohnston and/or other admins. MastCell Talk 18:58, 15 December 2011 (UTC)
- Section 5.2 of WP:ARBR&I#Case amendments provides that editors contributing to the area of conflict must: "..adhere strictly to fundamental Wikipedia policies, including but not limited to: maintaining a neutral point of view; avoiding undue weight; carefully citing disputed statements to reliable sources; and avoiding edit-warring and incivility." Single-purpose agenda accounts will not be able to meet the neutrality requirement, so I am sympathetic to a topic ban. This area has been troubled by agenda accounts in the past, so we would not be responding to an imagined problem. EdJohnston (talk) 21:18, 15 December 2011 (UTC)
- Single use account + patterns similar to banned editors = quack to me, we don't have the resources to prove each and every one. I support a topic ban, open to discussion on term. --WGFinley (talk) 05:47, 16 December 2011 (UTC)
Nableezy
[edit]Nableezy is restricted from adding the word 'Palestinian' to any articles until 15 January 2012. EdJohnston (talk) 21:01, 15 December 2011 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
Request concerning Nableezy[edit]
I am uninvolved in RfC taking place at Nazareth talk page, though I've noticed its existence. I do not have any opinion on the matter. I have reverted an IP, since I was not sure that the anonymous editor was aware of the discussion and warned other editors not to get into WP:EW. However User:Nableezy, who is active contributor to talk page discussion, reverted anyway. The Nazareth page immediately got protected due to Edit warring / Content dispute: Nationalist revert war by EdJohnston. Ed suggested:
However Nab believes:
I personally do not know what should be done here, but maybe AE administrator could figure it out.
Discussion concerning Nableezy[edit]Statement by Nableezy[edit]Umm, what? nableezy - 21:43, 14 December 2011 (UTC)
And, just for clarity, despite Agada's dishonest portrayal of my comments above, I had already agreed to Ed's proposed restriction, and we were discussing the issue on my talk page. The reason Agada brought this here is obvious, so much so that I think I can leave it unsaid. nableezy - 21:54, 14 December 2011 (UTC)
Michael, your comments have several distortions, and given your familiarity with English I have no doubt they are intentional. I dont plan on responding here to an editor who repeatedly distorts things, and, as you have proven yourself to be such an editor, I dont plan on replying to your latest fabrication. nableezy - 13:35, 15 December 2011 (UTC)
Comments by others about the request concerning Nableezy[edit]Comment by Shuki[edit]Frankly, I think the vast majority of heavily-involved I-P editors on both sides of the POV have had nice extended topic bans and have cooled down substantially. Except Nableezy who, if even sentenced, gets short ones, and then raises appeals successfully to get back on the battleground. Some have even said Nableezy is needed because they add 'balance'. I've come back from a one year hiatus from I-P and I am truly amazed that Nableezy has managed to keep the aggressive attitude intact. But what's the point of bothering to bring Nableezy to AE? The invincible smart one who seems to wait until the 24hrs are up to revert (in the past 3RR, and now 1RR) and if caught on a mistake, merely apologizes for the technicality and everyone is happy. The person with nine lives, who always gets a second chance, who gets endless warnings from AE admins, just when the guideline is about to be thrown and some admin comes by on AE to be the voice of mercy. --Shuki (talk) 22:34, 14 December 2011 (UTC) In our pretty little world of WP, we want to assume that everyone is really civil and here to build the encyclopedia. Where someone can screw up but apologize, even if that same someone screws up dozens of times, attacks others for same infractions, but a simple 'who me? I'm sorry' is enough for this one too. I've never seen one editor get so much attention from AE admins, so many personal warnings on the user's talk page, so many breaks. What is being accomplished here? I suggest WP:BOOMERANG here but EdJohnston, sorry to call your bluff, but the admins are all talk. --Shuki (talk) 22:52, 14 December 2011 (UTC) Comment by RolandR[edit]This seems a totally unfounded complaint. Several editors were involved in reverting and re-reverting, but AU has seen fit to complain about just one of them. As evidence of Nableezy's alleged malpractice, he cites a comment by an admin made an hour after his edit. How can Nableezy have been guilty of ignoring a polite suggestion, if it had not yet been offered. The "Get Nab" crowd just don't give up, do they? RolandR (talk) 22:44, 14 December 2011 (UTC)
Comment by The Devil's Advocate[edit]Just think it should be noted that the first revert Nableezy made was of editor Odiwkatc who appears to have made the edit within a minute of registering, and it so far being that editor's only contribution. Maybe there should be a checkuser inquiry made into that editor. Also, I think when there is an RfC going on any attempt to change the wording away from the old consensus should be frowned upon unless it actually seeks to balance the concerns of both sides. Making a new change that only favors one side seems more like an attempt by that side in the dispute to force their version into place thus undercutting the RfC.--The Devil's Advocate (talk) 00:03, 15 December 2011 (UTC) Comment by MichaelNetzer[edit]@EdJohnston: While it's understandable to be duly forgiving of Nableezy's behavior because he's an effective representative for a cause, concerns voiced around the I/P space recently are not at all frivolous or unfounded. This case may not be representative of the core issues needing to be addressed here, but still, a voluntary ban on adding a word to an article has little to do with a problem of conduct that persists after every slap of the wrist Nableezy gets. Editors under fire from him have to endure insults, bad faith insinuations, distortions of intent, intimidation and generally the type of aggression that's not tolerated in anyone else's behavior. It's worrisome that Nableezy seems to become more empowered in time knowing he can dish out the most toxic diatribe with impunity because administrators afford him special protection. If such a door is to be opened on Wikipedia, then we can eventually expect the collapse of the conduct guidelines altogether. Nableezy does not show an obligation to change his tone in the editing space, regardless of repeated advice and warnings about it. He's said himself that 1RR bans caused him to curb those violations. The next time he blows up at someone and contaminates a relatively collaborative atmosphere, a ban for uncivil conduct needs to be considered more seriously because even he admits that a stringent measure compels him to modify his behavior. The kid gloves treatment not afforded to others will continue to boomerang and cause arbitrators to spend more time putting out his fires than most anything else they do. A certain measure of tolerance can be appreciated, but only until it becomes a detriment to the community as a whole. I say this with utmost respect for your efforts to keep things peaceful here. -MichaelNetzer (talk) 05:55, 15 December 2011 (UTC)
Comment by Tiamut[edit]Well its more of a question really. Is Nableezy's ban on reinstating the word "Palestinian" to apply to any text with that word in it? What I mean is even when its not the source of a dispute but the word happens to be in a paragraph where other material is being contested? And if so, doesn't that pretty much amount to a topic ban? Thanks. Tiamuttalk 18:54, 15 December 2011 (UTC) Comment by Hearfourmewesique[edit]Ever since the beginning of my (relatively) short time in the I-P area, I was reverted dozens of times and reported to ArbCom without being given the time to properly respond to warnings, mostly by Nableezy, which resulted in being blocked twice. Now he is trying, for the second time, to threaten to report me for alleged lies and attacks on him and/or his sources, when in reality all I do is call him out on the use (and defense) of controversial sources, which constitute the coverage of work that is anti-Semitic in nature. Moreover, he is falsely accusing me of WP:HOUNDing him because I chimed in in a couple of discussions,in which he is involved, and reverted a couple of his contributions; he also threatened to start hounding me unless I ceased being involved in the same topic areas as he is. He calls sources I provide "excremental" and "crap", claiming "it's not gonna fly here". It is clear that Nableezy is very experienced in what he does, and I see it as WP:Civil POV pushing, which, of course, is the worst kind because it is the hardest to prosecute or even detect without being called incivil or having bad faith. Incidentally, it seems as if he filed more reports on this board than anyone else, all against editors who do not edit in a strong pro-Palestinian fashion. Hearfourmewesique (talk) 06:17, 15 December 2011 (UTC)
Result concerning Nableezy[edit]
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