Devil

Devil (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

This article basically covers the same ground as Satan. The rational for giving it its own article is based entirely on one source Jeffrey Burton Russell's book The Devil: Perceptions of Evil from Antiquity to Primitive Christianity (1987), which state that a devil is any "personification of evil as it is conceived in many and various cultures and religious traditions." This does not appear to be universally accepted as can be seen in pages 3–4 on the introduction to Satan: A Biography. In addition, the inclusion of other beings that are not Satan as "devils" are either based on Russell or are WP:OR. For example, for Mara, the source does not call him a "devil" or "devil-like" but merely compares a story involving him and the Buddha with the story of Jesus and Satan. The article should either be deleted or redirect to Satan. LittleJerry (talk) 04:25, 4 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment – I am really leaning towards a very strong keep at the moment, but I must say the nom's argument is strongly reminiscent of an opinion of redirecting to Satan. Thoughts, LittleJerry? Must say though, quite a devillish nomination... J947 ^(c), at 04:48, 4 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

• And I'm so devillish as to not read the last sentence. :) J947 ^(c), at 04:50, 4 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Mythology-related deletion discussions. J947 ^(c), at 04:51, 4 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Religion-related deletion discussions. J947 ^(c), at 04:51, 4 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Bible-related deletion discussions. J947 ^(c), at 04:51, 4 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Buddhism-related deletion discussions. J947 ^(c), at 04:51, 4 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Christianity-related deletion discussions. J947 ^(c), at 04:51, 4 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep, the argument that the inclusion of other beings that are not Satan as "devils" are either based on Russell or are WP:OR is not very persuasive. I am currently reviewing the article Fallen angel for GA, and my impression is that religious terms which are a mixture of orthodox doctrine and folklore like devil and Satan hardly ever overlap exactly. This is also my impression from studying Buddhist doctrine and history.--Farang Rak Tham (Talk) 08:59, 4 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I know that "devil" can overlap with "demon" as well. So you may have a point. However that would mean that devil some redirect to the Devil (disambiguation). And anyhow I think Satan works as WP:PRIMARYTOPIC and WP:PRIMARYREDIRECT. LittleJerry (talk) 16:38, 4 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

LittleJerry, do you have any Google Scholar or News search results to back up your claims about devil being nearly identical with Satan or demon? Tertiary sources like encyclopedias could work as well.--Farang Rak Tham (Talk) 21:33, 4 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

There's page four of Henry Ansgar Kelly's "Satan a Biography" which can be previewed. Also I think the burden of proof is on the people claiming that devil is distinct from Satan or demon. Only Russell seems to support this and this is disputed by Kelly. LittleJerry (talk) 22:49, 4 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

• Speedy keep. While the article is not of a FA quality, it is clearly independently notable. Can't even suggest merger to Satan, as Satan is devil in Abrahamic religions. Devil is a bigger concept than Satan. It's like suggesting to delete article on God because we have God in Christianity. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 09:01, 4 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

We actually have a Devil in Christianity article in addition to Satan, which discusses all Abrahamic religions. There is no evidence that "Devil" is used for other "evil" beings in world religions and mythology. Only Russell seems to state that. One could argue that devil is also interchangeable with demon. In that case this article could redirect to Devil (disambiguation). LittleJerry (talk) 16:29, 4 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep per Piotr, that devil is a lot broader a concept than Satan, who is devil only in certain religions. Debresser (talk) 17:38, 4 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

What other devils are there? LittleJerry (talk) 17:59, 4 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep This is a broad topic and so is naturally difficult to define and debate but deletion plays no part in this. Andrew D. (talk) 18:52, 4 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Andrew Davidson what about redirect or disambiguation? LittleJerry (talk) 18:59, 4 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

• Speedy Keep Zero compliance with WP:Before. Many sources out there. This is as content and sourcing question, and fails to even plausibly state a valid reason for Deletion, which is a last resort. We should not inflict the Wikipedia equivalent of capital punishment based upon a theological or metaphysical dispute. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 23:08, 4 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]