Seraphimblade (talk | contribs) →GalantFan: Closing |
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==Arbitration enforcement action appeal by Toa Nidhiki05== |
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{{hat|Toa Nidhiki05's topic-ban from American Politics is replaced with a [[WP:TBAN|topic-ban]] from [[WP:BLP|BLPs]] related to post-1992 American politics, broadly construed. [[User:Vanamonde93|Vanamonde93]] ([[User talk:Vanamonde93|talk]]) 13:38, 7 January 2024 (UTC)}} |
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<small>''Procedural notes: The rules governing arbitration enforcement appeals are found [[Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee/Procedures#Enforcement|here]]. According to the procedures, a "clear and substantial consensus of uninvolved {{SAFESUBST:<noinclude />#ifeq: {{SAFESUBST:<noinclude />PAGENAME}} | Administrators noticeboard | editors | administrators}}" is required to overturn an arbitration enforcement action.''</small> |
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<small>''To help determine any such consensus, involved editors may make brief statements in separate sections but should not edit the section for discussion among uninvolved editors. Editors are normally considered involved if they are in a current dispute with the sanctioning or sanctioned editor, or have taken part in disputes (if any) related to the contested enforcement action. Administrators having taken administrative actions are not normally considered involved for this reason alone (see [[WP:UNINVOLVED]]).''</small> |
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; Appealing user : {{userlinks|Toa Nidhiki05}} – '''[[User:Toa Nidhiki05|<i style="color: green; font-family: Mistral;">Toa</i>]] [[User talk:Toa Nidhiki05|<i style="color: green; font-family: Mistral;">Nidhiki05</i>]]''' 16:31, 31 December 2023 (UTC) |
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; Sanction being appealed : Indefinite topic ban from post-1992 American politics, imposed at [[Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive312#Toa Nidhiki05]], logged at [[Wikipedia:Arbitration enforcement log/2022#American politics 2]] |
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; Administrator imposing the sanction : {{admin|Guerillero}} |
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; Notification of that administrator : [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Guerillero&oldid=1192838481 Diff] |
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===Statement by Toa Nidhiki05=== |
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This is my second appeal of this sanction; the last was over six months ago. Like I said then, I believe my behavior that led to the sanction was embarrassing and not befitting of what productive behavior in the topic area looks like. We can all agree, I think, that AP2 doesn't need that sort of behavior, and while I don't believe I was the only one at fault in the dispute, my behavior is the only thing that I can control. Since the topic ban a year ago, I've avoided disruptive behavior and have focused on productive editing, including routine cleanup of articles but also full-scale rewrites of articles like [[NFL Europe]] and [[Plastic Love]]. I've also worked productively on the BLP [[Huey Long]], where I productively helped work on resolving conflicts and reaching consensus. This would be the approach I would take going forward in the AP2 area if this topic ban were to be lifted. |
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I do feel like I have made valuable contributions in this area and the encyclopedia as a whole, and I'd love to be able to contribute productively to AP2 in the future. Like I've said previously - I would be more than open to alternatives that allow me to engage productively in this area. If a full lifting of the sanction isn't something you're willing to consider, I'd be more than open to something like a 1RR restriction that would allow me to productively contribute again. '''[[User:Toa Nidhiki05|<i style="color: green; font-family: Mistral;">Toa</i>]] [[User talk:Toa Nidhiki05|<i style="color: green; font-family: Mistral;">Nidhiki05</i>]]''' 16:31, 31 December 2023 (UTC) |
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:{{u|Vanamonde93}}, in response to your comments: |
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::1) I'll note that much of my work on articles tends to be in the form of whole-article reworks. Take my rework of [[Plastic Love]], for example; this was a top-to-bottom, complete rewrite from scratch. This was done mostly in userspace and then imported to mainspace once I finished. So while that looks like one mainspace edit, it's really the result of a month of work that included dozens of individual edits. Other recent examples of that are [[The Beautiful Letdown]] and [[NFL Europe]], which were actually more like yearslong projects (on and off). Most of my more prominent articles (see: [[American football]], [[National Football League]]) were developed with this method. So using mainspace edits as the only standard of activity really isn't a full look at what I do here, or what I've ever done in my decade+ of editing. |
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::2) Your questions on my topics of interest and skirting AP2 are basically the same thing. AP2 encompasses a ''very, very, very'' broad spectrum of topics that intersect with a ton of areas. The reason I've done that is I did not realize AP2 encompassed those areas - I didn't realize it had applied to specific songs (where my changes were to remove retailer-specific charts that are explicitly banned per [[WP:BADCHARTS]] - if you look through my editing history, music is a big interest of mine). I'd rather not violate policy, even if the edit is good, and I stand by those edits. So self-reverting was the rational solution, right? The 9/11 one for example was I simply forgot to take that page off my watchlist, noticed an egregiously bad edit, reverted it, and then realized that might fall under AP2. Only real option was to self-revert and hope someone else did the work, which they thankfully did. Another example of the sort of stuff I'm interested in - I actually noticed an egregious BLP error on a page shortly after my first appeal, and was able to get it removed after [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Guerillero&diff=prev&oldid=1166011649 reaching out to Guerillero directly]. This is the sort of stuff that can get stuck on overlooked pages for far longer than it should be. |
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::Basically, lifting the AP2 ban would allow me to make productive, uncontroversial edits in a lot of areas without having to walk on eggshells wondering whether I'll get slapped with a sanction. I'd like to be able to make edits like that. And again, I'm more than happy to accept some lesser sanction even if it's not necessary. I would just rather not be locked permanently into a situation where I can't make productive edits, unless this is a punitive topic ban, not a preventative one. And if that's the case, I guess I'll accept that judgement. '''[[User:Toa Nidhiki05|<i style="color: green; font-family: Mistral;">Toa</i>]] [[User talk:Toa Nidhiki05|<i style="color: green; font-family: Mistral;">Nidhiki05</i>]]''' 07:15, 1 January 2024 (UTC) |
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:{{u|Starship.paint}}, I had to go back to the article to see what you’re referring to. Again, from my understanding, that portion (the preamble) of a legal decision is often not written by the judge, and holds no actual legal meaning. It’s essentially just a very very very brief summary of the case history, without any real details. So I can say that yes, I do commit to using reliable sources and not discounting them based on my own opinion (something I clearly have experience with based on my strong article track record), but no, I don't believe the example you cited (a reliable source citing a case prologue) outweighs many other reliable sources that say other things based on a more extensive review of the case history. |
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:That being said, I have no interest in relitigating that entire discussion (much of which had actual examples of objectionable conduct) or returning to that topic area in question. '''[[User:Toa Nidhiki05|<i style="color: green; font-family: Mistral;">Toa</i>]] [[User talk:Toa Nidhiki05|<i style="color: green; font-family: Mistral;">Nidhiki05</i>]]''' 14:52, 2 January 2024 (UTC) |
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::Again, I am '''really''' not interested in relitigating a debate from a year ago, so this is the last I'll talk about it. If he wrote it, that's fine, but again, there were numerous other sources that said the case had not, in fact, resulted in legal victories for Fair Fight. And singling out a single vague line (what were the wins? what were the losses?) from the least important part (an uncited prologue) of a hundreds-page opinion doesn't add a ton of value. I disagreed with you then, I disagree with you now, that's not going to change. '''[[User:Toa Nidhiki05|<i style="color: green; font-family: Mistral;">Toa</i>]] [[User talk:Toa Nidhiki05|<i style="color: green; font-family: Mistral;">Nidhiki05</i>]]''' 16:08, 2 January 2024 (UTC) |
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===Statement by Guerillero === |
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I don't have an objection to Vanamonde's narrowing of the topic ban --[[User:In actu|<span style="color: #0b0080">In actu (Guerillero)</span>]] <sup>[[User_talk:Guerillero|<span style="color: green;">Parlez Moi</span>]]</sup> 11:04, 2 January 2024 (UTC) |
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===Discussion among uninvolved editors about the appeal by Toa Nidhiki05 === |
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<small>''Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 [[Word count#Software|words]] and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. <br />Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.''</small> |
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====Statement by GoodDay==== |
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An editor deserves a chance to prove themselves. Toa' t-ban shouldn't continue if they've promised to not be disruptive in future in that area & hasn't been disruptive in other areas. We must ask ourselves, at what point does a preventative measure morph into a punitive measure. [[User:GoodDay|GoodDay]] ([[User talk:GoodDay|talk]]) 16:40, 31 December 2023 (UTC) |
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====Statement by Zaathras==== |
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As someone who had tussled with the filer here and there, e.g. [[Talk:Ilhan Omar]], FWIW I say loosen the restrictions a bit. In the past they may have gotten a little too ''passionate'' about things when consensus for edits failed, but always seemed to be aimed overall at encyclopedic improvement. Rather than being a keyboard warrior here for a cause, like others have been. I think they can be productive again. [[User:Zaathras|Zaathras]] ([[User talk:Zaathras|talk]]) 14:49, 1 January 2024 (UTC) |
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====Statement by starship.paint==== |
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{{re|Toa Nidhiki05}} At your previous appeal I raised the example where you rejected a reliable source's quote of a judge in the judge's legal decision by arguing, without supporting evidence, that the judge was merely being "courteous". Can you commit to avoid repeating such behaviour, and not reject content from reliable sources based solely on your own opinion, instead relying on other reliable sources? '''[[User:Starship.paint|<span style="color:#512888">starship</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Starship.paint|<span style="color:#512888">.paint</span>]] ([[User talk:Starship.paint|RUN]])''' 11:08, 2 January 2024 (UTC) |
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*{{re|Toa Nidhiki05}} - I can't say that I am satisfied by that response. You stated in the past that {{brown|The judge is being courteous after a years-long trial.}} Now, in a contradictory argument, you state {{brown|that portion (the preamble) of a legal decision is often '''not written by the judge'''}}. However, the quote was in a document [https://assets.law360news.com/1536000/1536441/fair%20fight.pdf literally] signed by the judge, and multiple sources, some more reliable than others, attributed the quote to the judge. (1) [https://apnews.com/article/2022-midterm-elections-voting-rights-race-and-ethnicity-georgia-c31dffd9dfd50392af3df524f430686a Associated Press] {{tq|"... wins and losses ..." Jones wrote.}} (2) [https://www.politico.com/news/2022/10/24/stacey-abrams-fair-fight-action-00061348 Politico] {{tq|"... wins and losses ...” wrote Judge Jones in his 288-page decision.}} (3) [https://archive.is/bZPtN Atlanta Journal-Constitution] {{tq|"... wins and losses ..." wrote U.S. District Judge Steve Jones}}. (4) [https://www.foxnews.com/politics/obama-judge-slaps-down-stacey-abrams-election-lawsuit-state-biden-labeled-jim-crow-2-0 Fox News]{{tq|"... wins and losses ..." Jones wrote.}} Everything above is pointing towards the quote being written by the judge, and you have provided no evidence that the judge did not write the quote. I'm afraid that your response comes off as the exact same problem I raised - you are going against the sources, but without a shred of evidence. '''[[User:Starship.paint|<span style="color:#512888">starship</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Starship.paint|<span style="color:#512888">.paint</span>]] ([[User talk:Starship.paint|RUN]])''' 15:50, 2 January 2024 (UTC) |
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====Statement by (uninvolved editor 2)==== |
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===Result of the appeal by Toa Nidhiki05=== |
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:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.'' |
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<!-- When closing this request (once there is a consensus) use {{hat|Result}} / {{hab}} if at AE, or an archive/discussion box template if on AN, inform the user on their talk page and note it in the contentious topics log below where their sanctions is logged. --> |
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*I find myself ambivalent about this appeal. A concern raised when the previous appeal was rejected was that TN had significantly reduced their activity in mainspace, which gave the appearance of waiting out the TBAN. Mainspace activity has been marginally higher since, but not by much; I'm counting ~175 mainspace edits since the appeal. Conversely, they have done some good work in other areas, and the appeal seems sincere. {{ping|Toa Nidhiki05}} I have two questions for you; what topics within AP2 are you looking to work on? And why, in the last few months, have you made several edits that skirted (but not, IMO, breached) your topic-ban, and then immediately self-reverted? The ones I'm looking at are to 9/11, these [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Try_That_in_a_Small_Town&diff=1171843160&oldid=1171840702], [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Rich_Men_North_of_Richmond&diff=1171843164&oldid=1171840586]. [[User:Vanamonde93|Vanamonde93]] ([[User talk:Vanamonde93|talk]]) 06:54, 1 January 2024 (UTC) |
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*:Thanks for clarifying; to be clear, I was not suggesting that you be sanctioned for the edits I highlight, but they looked odd. I'm not willing to lift this outright; there have been too many sanctions in the history. I would consider narrowing the TBAN slightly: for instance, to a TBAN from BLPs withing the topic, possibly combined with a 1RR restriction. I would like to hear from other admins. [[User:Vanamonde93|Vanamonde93]] ([[User talk:Vanamonde93|talk]]) 07:23, 1 January 2024 (UTC) |
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*:: I opposed this appeal last time, as you can see; however, per [[WP:ROPE]], I'd also be happy with loosening this to a TBAN on BLPs within AP2; we can see how that goes without the potential problem of BLPs being affected. [[User_talk:Black Kite|Black Kite (talk)]] 14:40, 1 January 2024 (UTC) |
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*Thanks BK; I would ideally like to hear more opinions, given the block log and how well-attended the previous appeal was; but if I don't see further input in ~24 hours, I will close the appeal with the modifications I propose above. [[User:Vanamonde93|Vanamonde93]] ([[User talk:Vanamonde93|talk]]) 06:56, 5 January 2024 (UTC) |
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*I think scaling back to BLPs in the AP2 area is a reasonable thing to do here. I wouldn't lift it entirely yet based upon the low quantity of editing, but those which have been made seem to be reasonable and of good quality, and I don't find any indication of further disruptive behavior. [[User:Seraphimblade|Seraphimblade]] <small><sup>[[User talk:Seraphimblade|Talk to me]]</sup></small> 13:22, 7 January 2024 (UTC) |
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*:Thanks Seraphimblade, also because this nudged me to wrap this up. Closing with a BLP TBAN as above. [[User:Vanamonde93|Vanamonde93]] ([[User talk:Vanamonde93|talk]]) 13:38, 7 January 2024 (UTC) |
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{{hab}} |
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== Marcelus == |
== Marcelus == |
Revision as of 16:51, 12 January 2024
Marcelus
No action, the matter is a content dispute and no restrictions were violated. The parties are advised to use dispute resolution if discussion cannot lead to agreement. Seraphimblade Talk to me 16:34, 9 January 2024 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
Request concerning Marcelus
Hello, I noticed that last year User:Marcelus was sanctioned with a 0RR restriction in Eastern Europe topic area and was previously blocked for edit warring and violating 1RR restriction. On 29 November 2023 Marcelus successfully appealed his 0RR restriction and 1RR restriction was again applied to him. What is concerning is that factually Marcelus with his 2 January 2024 edit arbitrarily completely reverted content which was fairly recently added by another user with 8 November 2023 edit in a contentious topics procedure article (Eastern Europe area). It is noteworthy that no consensus was reached to edit or remove this content in talk page discussion (where Marcelus and I participated), but by ignoring this Marcelus still made this non-consensual edit (revert) despite his history of disruptive reverting and multiple sanctioning for that in Eastern Europe topic area. I think such editing style by Marcelus can be disruptive in this contentious topic area, especially knowing his editing history and multiple sanctions for reverting other users content in this topic area. I believe that user with such sanctioning history should willingly seek consensus and not edit (revert) discussed content arbitrarily how he personally want.--Ed1974LT (talk) 13:14, 7 January 2024 (UTC)
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3AMarcelus&diff=1194145114&oldid=1191571124 Discussion concerning MarcelusStatements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by Marcelus8 Nov edit is WP:SYNTH. The source referenced ([1]) mentions nothing about Báthory's "inauguration" as Grand Duke, instead it mentions that the four GDL senators wanted a separate act of inauguration during the negotiations before the conclusion of the Union of Lublin (1569 vs 1580). So the conclusion that the Báthory's ceremony of May 29, 1580 coincided with these attempts is OR. No source connects these two facts or make such implication. Comment: In general, the very idea that there was a separate inauguration of the Grand Duke in 1580 in Vilnius is WP:FRINGE. It is actually only mentioned on the website of the Vilnius palace in its description of the exhibition of the jewels of the royal treasury at Wawel Castle in Kraków ([2]]). If historians actually believed that this happened it would be an extremely important event, which would be mentioned in every book on the history of Poland, Lithuania or the Republic. In fact, what took place then was the ceremonial handing over of the papal blessed sword and hat, which had traditionally been given to basically every ruler of Poland, to Stephen Báthory going to war with Moscow. Antemurale Christianitatis etc. And the sword itself was given through the efforts of Polish senator Paweł Uchański and not the Lithuanian lords.Marcelus (talk) 13:13, 7 January 2024 (UTC) Statement by (username)Result concerning Marcelus
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GalantFan
GalantFan is topic banned indefinitely from gender-related disputes or controversies and people associated with them, broadly construed. Seraphimblade Talk to me 23:41, 11 January 2024 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning GalantFan
Contentious topics alert at 00:01, 4 January 2024 (UTC)
A pretty clear-cut case of battleground conduct. I didn't take a hard look into their previous edits beyond a glance at the ANI thread that resulted in their first block. It should be noted that the editor who started that thread was an abusive sockpuppeteer, which may be a mitigating factor. — Callitropsis🌲[talk · contribs] 22:35, 7 January 2024 (UTC)
Discussion concerning GalantFanStatements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by GalantFan
Other editors tell me to discuss the article on the talk page and then REPEATEDLY delete my discussions of the article on the talk page. They tell me to explain why it needs to be changed and then delete my explanation of why. They explain that consensus needs to be reached and then tell me why they ignore everyone who disagrees with them. They alter the POV of the article and then complain when parts of the *original* POV are restored. GalantFan (talk) 22:58, 7 January 2024 (UTC) Callitropsis also deleted another editors comments about the article after Sangdeboeuf also deleted another editors comments about the article. DIFF Previously it was proven that editor GreenCows was using multiple sock puppets to create a false impression of consensus on hundreds of articles and to camouflage hundreds of instances of white washing and POV edits. GalantFan (talk) 23:14, 7 January 2024 (UTC) Statement by (username)Statement by SangdeboeufIt's true that GalantFan's behavior has been obnoxious overall, displaying a repeated failure or refusal to listen to what others are saying. But I think the removal of Writ Keeper's comment (#6 above) was probably a simple edit conflict; as GF indicated on their user talk page. —Sangdeboeuf (talk) 05:46, 8 January 2024 (UTC) edited 06:07, 8 January 2024 (UTC)
Result concerning GalantFan
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CanterburyUK
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Request concerning CanterburyUK
- User who is submitting this request for enforcement
- Vladimir.copic (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 00:28, 10 January 2024 (UTC)
- User against whom enforcement is requested
- CanterburyUK (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log
- Sanction or remedy to be enforced
Wikipedia:Arbitration/Index/Palestine-Israel articles
Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Editing of Biographies of Living Persons
- Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
- 18 December 2023 Inclusion of information regarding A-I conflict in a BLP article. Information was sourced to primary sources, WP:DAILYEXPRESS and opinion pieces and some direct quotations are not followed by citations. This seems to be pushing a certain POV regarding Jones. I reverted these edits.
- 8 January 2024 Inserting information on the same topic regarding A-I conflict in a BLP article. Again the information is primarily cited to opinion pieces as well as primary sources and Wikipedia. Quotations are lengthy and some are without citation. There is a section about the 7/10 Hamas attack which is cited to sources which do not mention Jones at all. I reverted this.
- 9 January 2024 Reinsertion of above information.
- 9 January 2024 To their credit they did open a talk page discussion about this.
- 9 January 2024 Added information about Owen Jones and the A-I conflict to a different BLP article. There does not seem to be a DUE case for this as it is cited to a primary source and an opinion piece by the subject of the article. I have now reverted this.
- Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any
- 28 January 2023 Indefinitely blocked from Jordan Peterson and Talk:Jordan Peterson
- If contentious topics restrictions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics)
- 8 January 2023 Informed of BLP discretionary sanctions.
- 18 December 2023 Informed of A-I contentious topic.
- 9 January 2024 Warned about adding contentious information to BLP articles.
- Additional comments by editor filing complaint
This editor seems intent on adding information about a Youtube video concerning the current war in Gaza by journalist Owen Jones and the reaction to it in media. The information they are including is excessively long, poorly sourced, heavily reliant on opinion pieces and direct quotations (many of which are not cited). There is also the inclusion of information unrelated to the video which appears to try to push a certain POV. Given the editor is blocked from Jordan Peterson, they appear to have prior issues editing BLP issues. They were also recently warned by an editor about edit warring at Konstantin Kisin. The editor appears to struggle with placing and using citations and identifying appropriate sources for BLP articles. I'm not advocating for any specific remedy, but I do not want to catch a block for reverting or similar in the A-I conflict area so I would appreciate an admin's eyes on it.
For full disclosure, I will note that this issue came to my attention through Owen Jones posting about this on his X account. Vladimir.copic (talk) 00:28, 10 January 2024 (UTC)
- Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested
Discussion concerning CanterburyUK
Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.
Statement by CanterburyUK
Statement by (username)
Result concerning CanterburyUK
- This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
- I'm very concerned with what I'm seeing with BLP editing, especially with the prior ban from Jordan Peterson. At this point, I think I would topic ban from both BLPs and the ARBPIA area, but when someone needs to be repeatedly restricted, that also leads to the question of whether they ought to continue editing at all, as often restrictions just result in moving the disruptive behavior around. CanterburyUK, if you have anything to say in regards to that, now would be the time. Seraphimblade Talk to me 22:45, 10 January 2024 (UTC)
- (edit conflict) This certainly falls below the care I like to see when editing BLPs, especially at the intersection with another contentious topic. My concern is, based on their behavior at Jordan Peterson, they will be unwilling to take the advice of more knowledgeable editors, and create enormous time sinks over plainly unsuitable content. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 22:48, 10 January 2024 (UTC)
- Given that CanterburyUK has been editing since 2008, the additions to the Owen Jones article are not only a red flag from a NPOV perspective, but also regarding editing competence. How can an editor of 15 years still not be aware of WP:UNDUE (this edit makes over 45% of the Jones article about his views on the 7 October attack), MOS:DATE and basic matters such as how to place inline citations? Number 57 23:07, 10 January 2024 (UTC)
- 15 years, but only 655 edits in that time. In terms of knowing the basics, someone who makes an edit per week for 15 years will often know less than someone who's been editing actively for 5 days. That's not to say that action isn't needed here; just that we shouldn't be surprised by things like issues with inline citations and date-formatting. -- Tamzin[cetacean needed] (they|xe|she) 23:41, 11 January 2024 (UTC)