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I've been thinking about this issue for some time : how do we determine which protests constitute "George Floyd protests" ? I haven't seen this question discussed directly on this talk page, only discussions regarding whether the protests are over or not (they seem not to, regarding continuous protests in Portland for instance). The problem is that many police brutality/racism protests are mentioned in the media without direct reference to George Floyd and the wave of protests this summer in the US and other countries, and yet they are included here. For instance, on August 9 there was a police shooting in Chicago which sparked a riot in the city, and demonstrations regarding the event the following day. Do these events constitute George Floyd protests ? Floyd and the protests aren't mentioned or alluded to in the sources. Thus, we risk conducting WP:original research. Regarding this issue, I would think that the way to go is to include general police brutality/BLM protests, and protests in reaction to given police actions (mainly shootings of civilians such as the one in Chicago I just mentioned or the shooting of Rayshard Brooks in Atlanta are included on a case by case basis, with a careful reading of the sources. Fa suisse (talk) 06:01, 16 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• This is a difficult event to title as it is ongoing and everything is still up in the air, I agree. I don't believe these protests have been about George Floyd since around mid-June, since then the protests have been more broadly BLM/anti-law enforcement in general, along with various counter-protests and sometimes armed confrontations between opposing groups (over the removal of statues and monuments, for example). In some cities the protests never stopped (like in Portland), while other cities like Chicago, Richmond, Atlanta, Seattle, etc. have had frequent flare-ups of unrest and protests/rioting, none specifically George Floyd-related at all. The scope of this ongoing unrest is so all over the place that I believe the article should no longer be titled "George Floyd protests" but rather something like 2020 American protests/unrest/spring/etc. if people can eventually agree on something, as this is just absolutely all over the place. But I'm not currently challenging that since everything is still so up in the air right now, and will likely continue into at least November and probably explode again, regardless of who wins the election. But I'm on a tangent. Just my two cents. Temeku (talk) 09:28, 19 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

RS say it is.Slatersteven (talk) 09:46, 19 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I think it’s time to give this movement a new name. The media isn’t calling the protests of today “George Floyd protests”. They are usually referred to as police brutality protests or something like that. We will either need a second page for “2020 Police Brutality Protests and Unrest in the US” to accommodate more recent activity, or change the title of this page. Camdoodlebop (talk) 22:38, 25 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

There doesn't seem to be a section discussing media coverage. Has it been fair or biased? This source claims it was, at least initially, biased: "Centering protest coverage around the impact on traffic, local businesses, and property is one way that the protest-as-nuisance framing manifests. And according to the study, that “annoyance” framing increased over time — newspapers were more likely to frame a protest as a nuisance in 2007 than in 1967. The study also found that protests over liberal causes were framed as nuisances more often than protests over conservative causes.... You also see this bias in headlines from The Washington Post’s “A night of fire and fury across America as protests intensify” to The New York Times’ “Appeals for calm as sprawling protests threaten to spiral out of control.” These headlines focus exclusively on the violence of the protests. They don’t tell us where the violence is coming from. So when Slate published a story with the headline “Police erupt in violence nationwide,” it was almost startling in its forthrightness. The story resonated, being shared widely on social media in and in private text groups, because it was the first national report that made plain what people were seeing in videos. “People kept sharing these videos that were coming up and it was unambiguous what was going on,” said Tom Scocca, Slate’s politics editor, who edited the story. “We weren’t looking at a stream of videos of violence erupting or clashes breaking out. We were looking at cops, attacking people.”" https://www.niemanlab.org/2020/06/its-time-to-change-the-way-the-media-reports-on-protests-here-are-some-ideas/ Here is another: "Top 16 Euphemisms US Headline Writers Used for Police Beating the Shit Out of People" https://fair.org/home/top-16-euphemisms-us-headline-writers-used-for-police-beating-the-shit-out-of-people/ Ghostofnemo (talk) 12:06, 24 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I would prefer better sources.Slatersteven (talk) 12:16, 24 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I think we can include both. The FAIR article, from Fairness & Accuracy in Reporting, "the national progressive media watchdog group, challenging corporate media bias, spin and misinformation", shouldn't however be front and center of a section on media bias, and should be added along analyses by "media watchdog groups" with different political perspectives. Fa suisse (talk) 08:48, 25 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

A section discussing media coverage would be a worthwhile addition to the article. Fa suisse (talk) 08:41, 25 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• It seems worth having a section for. Some possible sources: ^{[1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9]} --Aquillion (talk) 20:16, 25 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The only unbiased RS's provided only talk about substantial coverage and not necessarily improper coverage. We should be very careful with claiming RS are actually unreliable, and I don't see enough accepted RSs saying that directly. Anon0098 (talk) 21:33, 25 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The sources above are reliable and provide important information relevant to the topic. I am open to adding the section and get this started when I can, if someone is willing, please do so.•Shawnqual• 📚 • 💭 08:34, 28 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

79.146.43.165 (talk) 17:13, 25 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done Unclear what change is being asked for. FDW777 (talk) 17:16, 25 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Title should be changed to George Floyd Riots 12.129.16.124 (talk) 19:44, 25 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done See Wikipedia:Edit requests, they are not for controversial edits that don't have consensus. FDW777 (talk) 19:51, 25 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

George Floyd protests → 2020 Black Lives Matter protests – I suggest we change the name of this article to 2020 Black Lives Matter protests. Due to the unfortunate shooting of Jacob Blake and subsequent Kenosha riots, I believe that the title of this article should be changed to a more general title in order to include it, e.g. "2020 Black Lives Matter protests". Jacob Blake has become yet another figurehead of the fight against police brutality in the United States, and the title "George Floyd protests" doesn't do sufficient justice at including the nationwide movement that is now popping up against systemic racism, and the general aim of these protests as a whole. What was previously the George Floyd protests now far exceeds the scope of George Floyd's death. HandIsNotNookls (talk) 20:42, 25 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Oppose RS continuously link protests to Floyd. I haven't seen any significant amount call these "2020 Black Lives Matter Protests" in any capacity Anon0098 (talk) 21:28, 25 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

As an additional comment, I would support making the George Floyd protest page a fork from 2020 American Civil Unrest or something close to that effect as some others in this thread have suggested. Still opposed to the main article being called Black Lives Matter protests. Some unrest is not explicitly linked to BLM, such as CHAZ, but all would fall under the category of the broader category of American unrest. Anon0098 (talk) 05:31, 28 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Oppose Not all events in the death of George Floyd are even "Black Lives Matter" protests. That being said, it does seem like some content in the George Floyd protests article and other George Floyd protests in [NAME OF PLACE] articles have some content that is of a slighter broader context. Those articles just need better editing and refinement, not a full on rebrand.VikingB (talk) 21:34, 25 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Oppose The protests are about the death of George Floyd. While Ahmaud Arbery, Breonna Taylor, and other's deaths have played a role in the protests, they were ultimately started by (and continue to mainly be fueled by) Floyd's death. The current name is best. I-82-I | TALK 03:32, 26 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Oppose and move to George Floyd riots the article is more about a destruction of public property and vandalism by protesters, so the correct name of the title is George Floyd riots per 1992 Los Angeles riots, which also named as it thought is was some peaceful protest. Also, this article is about the death of George Floyd, not other Black Americans which have separated articles. 180.245.102.250 (talk) 04:59, 26 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Oppose George Floyd riots A large majority of the protests were peaceful although a significant minority were violent. We name articles using the terms that the preponderance of reliable sources use when discussing the topic. I also oppose the move to 2020 Black Lives Matter protests for the same reason. We go with the sources. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 05:12, 26 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Strong Oppose George Floyd protests are a part of the BLM movement, which has been taking place for a number of years now and is not something which first originated in 2020. The BLM movement in 2020 is also in no way synonymous with George Floyd protests as multiple other events of the movement have taken place and continue to do so in 2020. •Shawnqual• 📚 • 💭 07:13, 26 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Move to George Floyd riots or George Floyd unrest as it fits definition of riot as it was many destruction of businesses, lawlessness, and many more. I agree with 180.245.102.250 that per 1992 LA riots, this article title should be follow that, even it was a peaceful protests. I not agree to move to 2020 BLM protest because reason above. 182.1.35.124 (talk) 07:55, 26 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Oppose and move to 2020 American protests/unrest/etc. per some of the reasons stated above. I called this a week ago on here, I'm glad to see others are starting to agree en masse that this series of events needs a different name after it has grown far beyond what started it back in May. George Floyd (or any of the others shot and killed) is much too narrow to describe what is happening here, which also includes large counterprotest movements and broad clashes between opposing groups in numerous cities. Temeku (talk) 08:35, 26 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Oppose This article is in regards to the BLM protests directly in response to George Floyd's death. RopeTricks (talk) 08:43, 26 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Oppose to both 2020 Black Lives Matter protests and George Floyd riots titles and as per •Shawnqual• 📚's comment. Panda619 (talk) 10:22, 26 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment The unrest is growing far beyond Floyd's death and I'm probably leaning more towards "2020 Civil Unrest in the US" or something to that effect, but I understand it's incredibly complex and there are several related things going on simultaneously. No harm in waiting for things to play out further and to build consensus for a new title. StuartH (talk) 12:47, 26 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Oppose The period of mass protest and civil unrest in June following Floyd's death is one of the largest mass protests in U.S. history and deserves its own article. It part of the ongoing Black Lives Matter movement. I agree with StuartH that an article specifically about the civil unrest surrounding political and racial tensions is necessary. I think the George Floyd protests should be considered largely concluded, with many of them morphing into the ongoing BLM protests and related civil unrest. Bigeyedbeansfromvenus (talk) 13:19, 26 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Oppose And also oppose any attempt to include the fatalities from the unrest relating to the shooting of Jacob Blake in this article, like I've just reverted here. There has to be a line drawn somewhere that not all protests are George Floyd protests, and it seems clear, to me at least, that protests relating to separate incidents months later are not part of the George Floyd protests. FDW777 (talk) 14:59, 26 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• comment Much as I hate forks there may be a case (given recent events) for an overall article on 2020 Black Lives Matter protests.Slatersteven (talk) 15:02, 26 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  I've been wondering about that too. I'm not sure BLM is correct, and we likely won't know what the correct title is for years. —valereee (talk) 20:40, 26 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  slatersteven and valereee, I think the title you are looking for is 2020 United States racial unrest. Googling "racial unrest" gets a lot of results related to the recent events. So following WP:NCEVENTS#Conventions gets us the title I suggest. --- C&C (Coffeeandcrumbs) 12:27, 27 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Yep I can run with that.Slatersteven (talk) 12:38, 27 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Oppose This page should be sub-sectioned under American Civil Unrest 2020 and rename this article to Gorge Floyd Riots as this encapsulates an on-going larger issue in scope. JoshuaAMarsh 19:19, 26/08/2020. Joshua A Marsh (talk) 09:19, 27 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Agree with that, although a lot of the protests and riots are not related to George Floyd, a lot of them are not related to BLM itself, for example the so called CHAZ. Azaan Habib 10:21, 27 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • I also agree with that, but the current title should be stay as this, in turn this article, along with Kenosha riot would be fall as sub-article of 2020 United States protest, in turn again would be fall into sub-article of new main article about Protests of 2020 as the new main article will contain information about COVID-19 protest, police brutality and racism protest, Belarus protest, and even Thai protest. all of these articles would be fall into one large article. 110.137.166.230 (talk) 11:00, 27 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment: A meta article to provide an overview of the unrest caused by race protests/riots in the United States in 2020 has been started. See 2020 United States racial unrest. •Shawnqual• 📚 • 💭 11:45, 28 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Change the word Protest to Riots. With 30 people killed and over 500 million in property damage it is not a protest and fits the definition of the word "Riot"- a violent disturbance of the peace by a crowd. VapeNShred (talk) 23:05, 25 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit semi-protected}} template. EvergreenFir (talk) 23:24, 25 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Change George Floyd protests to George Floyd riots TonySm8 (talk) 00:15, 26 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: Page move requests should be made at Wikipedia:Requested moves. JTP ^{(talk • contribs)} 04:58, 26 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Consensus does change, but edit requests over and over and over by people making their first edits are unlikely to be taking policy into consideration or be thoughtful. I'd like to discuss whether it's okay to answer and close such edit requests so they don't turn into long rediscussions that end up the same way. (FWIW, I'd be open to some regular reopening of questions that we all agree could have a change in consensus. But 'allege' passing of counterfeit bills is never going to change. And we don't need to rediscuss killing of vs. death of or riot vs. protest every six days.) —valereee (talk) 00:38, 26 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Propose: Anything that's been discussed in the past month, with no clear change to current consensus, can be politely responded to, directed at the most recent discussion, and closed. Revised Proposal per discussion: Following the conclusion of #Requested move 25 August 2020 no further move requests can take place until 1 March 2021. —valereee (talk) 22:23, 26 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Support

• Support I think we've wasted more than enough time dealing with people that think the page should be called "George Floyd riots" just because some of the protests turned violent. FDW777 (talk) 22:24, 26 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Support The original proposal didn't really reduce the work of editors or help in any way actually. Pointing people to past discussions is nothing out of ordinary and involves digging up past archives. The new proposal is better as it states a clear goal and has a significant result provided there is enough support for it. •Shawnqual• 📚 • 💭 19:50, 27 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose

Discussion

@Valereee: I would prefer a six-month+ moratorium on move requests that I've seen on other articles, once the current move request has finished. I think the current proposal is a bit too weak. FDW777 (talk) 07:15, 26 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

FDW777, I'd be happy with that. No one has S/O yet, would you want to tweak the language? —valereee (talk) 20:43, 26 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Something along the lines of Proposal: Following the conclusion of #Requested move 25 August 2020 no further move requests can take place until 1 March 2021. FDW777 (talk) 20:59, 26 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Provided this gets enough support, a list could also be embedded at the top of the talk page to show the previous move proposals and their outcomes so it is clear to new editors/readers where the consensus lies.•Shawnqual• 📚 • 💭 19:50, 27 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

FYI

The lead currently reads that Chauvin kneeled on Floyd for "nearly eight minutes".

You are invited to join a related discussion about the kneeling duration at Talk:George_Floyd#"Nearly"_eight_minutes.—Bagumba (talk) 09:55, 26 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

For the second time, the deaths relating to protests relating to the shooting of Jacob Blake have been added to the infobox. Since the protests relating to the shooting of Jacob Blake are, by definition, not protesting the killing of George Floyd I believe these deaths should not be added. FDW777 (talk) 20:00, 26 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Another reason to have George Floyd protests as a fork from larger page such as 2020 American Civil Unrest Anon0098 (talk) 05:50, 28 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I have amended the sentence As of July 25, 2020, at least 29 people have died during the protests, with 25 due to gunshot wounds and the related, unreferenced figure in the infobox, both of which were tagged as needing a citation and/or failing verification.

The references provided were as follows.

• New York Daily News of 3 June, which said At least 13 people, many of them black, have been killed in the past week as Americans flood city streets to protest police brutality. It listed them as
  • David Dorn (St Louis), David McAtee (Louisville), Dave Patrick Underwood (Oakland), Chris Beaty (Indianapolis), Italia Kelly (Davenport), unnamed person (also Davenport) Calvin L. Horton Jr (Minneapolis), James Scurlock (Omaha), Javar Harrell a 21-year-old black man (Detroit), two unnanmed people (Chicago), unnamed man dragged by FexEx truck (St Louis), Dorian Murrell (Indianpolis)
• ABC of 3 June, which said At least 13 people have been killed amid protests in cities across the US in the past week — many of them African Americans. It listed them as
  • David Dorn (St Louis), David McAtee (Louisville), Dave Patrick Underwood (Oakland), Chris Beaty (Indianapolis), unnamed 18-year-old man (also Indianapolis), Italia Kelly (Davenport), unnamed man (also Davenport), Calvin L. Horton Jr (Minneapolis), James Scurlock (Omaha), unnamed 21-year-old man (Detroit), two unnanmed people (Chicago), unnamed man (Las Vegas)
• Associated Press of 3 June, which listed them as
  • David Dorn (St Louis), David McAtee (Louisville), Dave Patrick Underwood (Oakland), Chris Beaty (Indianapolis), unnamed 18-year-old man (also Indianapolis), Italia Kelly (Davenport), unnamed man (also Davenport), Calvin L. Horton Jr (Minneapolis), James Scurlock (Omaha), unnamed 21-year-old man (Detroit), two unnanmed people (Chicago)
• Al Jazeera of 3 June (which is sourced by Associated Press, but including for thoroughness) which said Nearly a dozen deaths tied to continuing unrest in US, which listed them as
  • David Dorn (St Louis), David McAtee (Louisville), Dave Patrick Underwood (Oakland), Chris Beaty (Indianapolis), unnamed 18-year-old man (also Indianapolis), Italia Kelly (Davenport), unnamed man (also Davenport), Calvin L. Horton Jr (Minneapolis), James Scurlock (Omaha), unnamed 21-year-old man (Detroit), two unnanmed people (Chicago)
• Q13 Fox of 29 June, which listed two people killed in just over a week in Seattle's protest zone.

I will list all the people mentioned in the 3 June news reports in alphabetical order.

• Chris Beaty (Indianapolis)
• David Dorn (St Louis)
• Javar Harrell a 21-year-old black man (Detroit) (referred to in various reports as an unnamed 21-year-old man
• Calvin L. Horton Jr (Minneapolis)
• Italia Kelly (Davenport)
• David McAtee (Louisville)
• Dorian Murrell (Indianpolis) (referred to in various reports as an unnamed 18-year-old man)
• James Scurlock (Omaha)
• Dave Patrick Underwood (Oakland)
• Two unnanmed people (Chicago)
• Unnamed person (Davenport)
• Unnamed man dragged by FexEx truck (St Louis)
• Unnamed man (Las Vegas)

That's technically 14, despite all the references using a total of 13 (except for Al Jazeera, who think 13 is "nearly a dozen"). However I think, including the two people from later in the month in Seattle, "over 15 people" would cover it, so I am adding that to the article. The claim of 29, or 32 in the infobox, is unreferenced and should not be restored. FDW777 (talk) 08:04, 28 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Also I'm aware "over 15" is probably too low, and I've no objection to it being amended upwards if references are provided that state people were killed during George Floyd protests (and not Jacob Blake protests). My intent was not to add a figure that's set in stone and can't be changed, just one that's referenced. FDW777 (talk) 08:15, 28 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

If you add up all the deaths in the violence section it adds up to about 30. CaptainPrimo (talk) 04:52, 29 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Correct, we need to manually add the deaths in the violence section. That is the basis for the figure. Reverting to previous. Albertaont (talk) 05:54, 29 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Protests or events directly related to George Floyd's killing haven't been carried out since early-June according to the timeline by The New York Times. A quick google search also shows timelines ending in June-July from various sources. So, safe to assume that the status of protests is no longer ongoing or too early. Any protests hence have been under BLM or for Jacob Blake as of recently. This means that the status must be changed in the infobox, but which date should be used as the ending date? This timeline by NCAC could come in handy perhaps. @FDW777:, thoughts? •Shawnqual• 📚 • 💭 08:29, 28 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I think it's clear to most people looking at things from an unbiased perspective that the protests in Kenosha are not George Floyd protests, but are, not unsurprisingly, people protesting at the shooting of Jacob Blake. I realise that where to draw a line under George Floyd protests might be difficult, but I think it's clear a line needs to be drawn if references say the protests are over. I think something along the lines of "xxx date to yyy date (occasional isolated protests have occurred since) might be a possibility (subject to referencing). FDW777 (talk) 08:37, 28 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Until other articles are created, this article is clearly referring to all BLM protests which have happened since George Floyd was killed/murdered, except the Kenosha Riot. So why has the death toll suddenly been halved? User:Alexiod Palaiologos 12:46, 28 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

See #Unreferenced claims amended and WP:BURDEN. FDW777 (talk) 13:01, 28 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. User:Alexiod Palaiologos 13:11, 28 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Just to add on to this section, with the creation of the 2020 United States racial unrest page I think the criteria for the Floyd protests needs to be reworked. Maybe keep everything that RSs explicitly link to Floyd and move everything else to a BLM page which is forked from 2020 United States racial unrest, or something. Thoughts? Anon0098 (talk) 17:31, 28 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]